from_name: Erik Moeller

subject:
[Foundation-l] 10+ English Wikinews stories containing original
	reporting published

body:
Along with the 1,000 page milestone, another small milestone has been
reached on the English Wikinews: The 10th article containing original
reporting has been published. Since this has been one of a major points
of contention when Wikinews was first proposed, I'd like to give you all
a brief overview of the progress on this front so far. When we have the
100th article containing original reporting, I'd also like to send out a
brief press release.

First of all, I think all the original reporting stories we've had so
far were responsibly written and reasonably well-researched. Reporters
are encouraged by policy to publish their notes (e-mails, transcripts,
etc.) for other people to check, as is common within real editorial offices.

The policy governing original reporting is at:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Original_reporting

A list of all such articles can be found at:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Original_reporting

The process for becoming an "official" Wikinews reporter is at:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Credentials

What "original reporting" means in practice varies from case to case.
Since there are only 10 such articles so far, it is reasonable to take a
look at each of them:

1)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Cambridge_Planning_Board_approves_new_science_building_at_Harvard

What the reporter did: took photos of the construction site and the
notice of public hearing.

2)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Bright_object_falls_from_sky_over_northwest_United_States

What the reporter did: observe the object and describe his observation.
(The report has also been confirmed through other sources.) Interesting:
The report was first submitted through the
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Submit_a_story interface.

3)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Unrest_in_Belize

What the reporter did: observe the protests, describe his observations,
and take photos. (This was a scoop on the western mainstream media.)

4)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Report_urges_Kenya_to_ban_plastic_bags

What the reporter did: contact the US Film and Bag Federation and ask
them for a comment on a proposed tax on paper and plastic bags.

5)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/New_York_Public_Library_opens_collection_of_275%2C000_digital_images

What the reporter did: contact the NYPL and Larry Lessig regarding the
question whether public domain art can be encumbered with license or
usage fees.

6)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Iraqi_elections_kept_low-key%2C_but_secure%2C_in_Paris

What the reporter did: observe the voting process and take photos of the
polling stations.

7)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/GAA:_Westmeath_beat_Donegal_by_narrowest_of_margins

What the reporter did: watch a football game and write a report.

8)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/First_Swahili_office_suite_released_in_Dar_es_Salaam%2C_Tanzania

What the reporter did: conduct an extensive interview with project
leader Alberto Escudero-Pascual.
/
/9)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Conference_discusses_the_credibility_of_blogs

What the reporter did: provide coverage directly from the conference and
send it to other Wikinewsies via IRC who then summarized it in the article.

10)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Atlas_V_rocket_launches_with_Inmarsat_satellite

What the reporter did: watch a webcast of the launch and describe it.

---------

So in this small selection, we already have everything from eyewitness
reports to collaborative efforts to email inquiries to webcasts. I think
this is a good sign. Of course, our reporting is necessarily completely
unevenly spread about different topics at this point, but hopefully, it
will normalize over time.

On a related note, the German Wikinews has also published a significant
number of stories containing original reporting, mostly on very local
topics. These aren't categorized as on the English WN, but they can be
found through:

http://de.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Whatlinkshere&target=Wikinews%3AAkkreditierung

I would be interested in hearing about the state of original reporting
on other Wikinews editions.

All best,

Erik


list: wikimedia-l

source: pipermail-mbox


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Henry Tan-Tenn

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Newspaper links article keywords to Wikipedia

body:
Taipei Times, a leading English-language daily in Taiwan, recently (I
think) added a function that allows on-line readers to "Wikipedia-ize" a
number of pre-selected keywords in its articles.  The keywords do not
necessarily correspond to existing en: articles.  I have not seen an
explanation posted regarding the thinking or motivation behind it (not
being a regular reader), but it would seem to be a push to have its
readers engage Wikipedia, perhaps conveniently incorporating or citing
the paper's contents along the way.  For an example see
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2005/03/14/2003246212 (link
labeled "Wikipedia" on the right).


from_name: Kurt Jansson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] FlickR

body:
Andrew Lih schrieb:
> There is also a Wikipedia gallery in Flickr:
> http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/pool/

It says "no permission" if you are not member of the group. So after creating an
account, use the following link to join:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/

There is also a Wikipedia-tag:
http://flickr.com/photos/tags/wikipedia

Kurt


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re : Legal on meta-wimedia

body:
Thanks you Villy.

As a reminder, Villy is a legal professional in France, with quite a reasonable number of years of experience. He has already helped Wikimedia in several ways with his expertise, such as in writting with JB Soufron the french local chapter bylaws; in writing Stock.xchng legal analysis on wikicommons, in drafting the agreement between Mandrasoft and Wikimedia (for CD production). He also helped privately on other legal issues, and is naturally the foundator of the very near-birth french arbitration committee.

I think it is important that such departements as the legal one are created, for two reasons. First of all, we need legal counselling not only on internal issues, but on external as well.
We still have a long pending privacy policy to fix, and would not it be nice to finally get a decent terms of use ? We need to proceed along the ways of licence... in particular since now the creative commons are getting in the light, and with the beginning of wikinews as well.

We hope more local chapters will be created, expect legal work on donations so as the donators to get tax refunds etc... and as wikipedia is working, I hope we can rely on internal abilities rather than paying a professional who know nothing of our way of dealing with things.

Naturally, there are the agreements, such as hosting ones... also needing several eyes on them.

There is, I think, a second reason why we need to slowly work out a more organised legal resource... I expect one day we could get in real trouble with an organisation we irritated. We also need to show those giving us money, that we are organised. It will make us look more professional to simply show we are serious.

So, I hope that we slowly work out in this direction and learn to rely more on the resources we have among us.

Ant

-----------

Hello,
I've created :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_department
and the category
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Legal
in order to centralize issues, people and skills related to legal questions.
Hopefully, this will getting useful.
villy ~~JC

Anthere

http://fr.wikipedia.org
http://anthere.shaihome.net/

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!


from_name: Andrew Lih

subject: [Wikipedia-l] FlickR

body:
There is also a Wikipedia gallery in Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/pool/

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)

On 13 Mar 2005 11:31:00 +0100, Till Westermayer <till at tillwe.de> wrote:
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . till we *) . . .
>
> Hi,
>
> has anybody seen this: http://www.flickr.com? It is kind of an photo
> blog community, and many photographs are licensed with a creative
> commons licence.
>
> Bye, Till
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--

Andrew Lih, Assistant Professor
Journalism and Media Studies Centre
University of Hong Kong
Email: alih at hku.hk | Web: http://jmsc.hku.hk/faculty/alih
AOL IM: fuzheado | ICQ: 231894253
Yahoo Messenger: andrew_lih | MSN Messenger: andrew_lih at msn.com


from_name: Sj

subject: [Wikipedia-l] FlickR

references:
<9SoYBHWtbzB@westermayer-74391.user.cis.dfn.de>
	<2ed171fb05031311202b43d9a7@mail.gmail.com> <4234CF42.1010507@gmx.net>

body:
Hey, excellent.  Sadly, flickr doesn't want you to be able to
transclude high-res images from their server... so there's still a
reason to duplicate images there and on commons.

SJ

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:39:46 +0100, Kurt Jansson <jansson at gmx.net> wrote:
> Andrew Lih schrieb:
> > There is also a Wikipedia gallery in Flickr:
> > http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/pool/
>
> It says "no permission" if you are not member of the group. So after creating an
> account, use the following link to join:
> http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/
>
> There is also a Wikipedia-tag:
> http://flickr.com/photos/tags/wikipedia
>
> Kurt
> _______________________________________________


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

subject: [Foundation-l] Report from Cebit

body:
Hiho,

a report for all who were not there...

 From 10th to 12th March 2005 Wikimedia was present at the world
biggest computer fair, the cebit in Hannover, Germany. Our booth was
located in the lovely neighbourhood of projects like Debian, KDE,
Gnome and OpenOffice at the Linuxpark. Brockhaus was also present at
Cebit, in the same hall like us. Unlike most of the other open source
projects we had a whole booth for us, with a table for the
presentations computer and leaflets. Decoration and Equipment was
still scarce -- we used the posters left from [[FOSDEM 2005]], Nina
provided her brandnew iBook as presentation computer.

Day one started with a prominent visitor at our booth: Jon Maddog
Hall. And of course he instantly discovered a mistake in
Wikipedia. Looking up his biography in the english wikipedia, he found
his name spelled wrongly -- good occasion to fix this (edit summary:
"spelled my name correctly"). When I logged in to move the page
afterwards, I could see one more time how fast Wikipedia works: RickK
had already moved the page to the correct title (okay, there was some
sort of redirect confusion...).

In the following time the booth crew, Mathias Schindler, Nina,
Southpark (en:Zeitgeist), Marco Krohn and I were busy answering
questions from visitors. Most knew Wikipedia already and were
interested in basic questions like "How do you make sure that no
nonsense stays in?". People also showed lots of interest in the CD,
DVD and print versions. And of course, some wikipedians passed by,
too. A lot of people came with Mediawiki related questions which we
tried to answer as good as possible, sometimes with help from the devs
on IRC. For the next fair, it would be good to have a developer at
the booth.

In the afternoon, I held a presentation about Wikipedia at the
Linuxpark forum. At six we closed down the booth and went together to
the annual Wikipedia cebit meetup in the same old pub as last year,
talking until late night about excellent articles, edit-wars, vfd (the
usual wikipedia chitchat).

The following day, Presroi and I had an radio interview with a
journalist from NDR and were running around a lot establishing
contacts. We left some dutch wikipedia leaflets at the booth of the
Netherlands and I grumbled about myself that I had no info materials
in Arabic to distribute it at the booths of the Arabic
countries. Cebit could have been a possibility for us to promote
wikipedia in those countries with bad internet connectivity and reach
people who actually have internet there.

Saturday, day three was supposed to be the busiest (with reduced
entrance fees for students) but was relatively quiet for us, with people
from berlinux passing by, inviting us to their next conference in Berlin
   and so on.

These are the lessons we learned for the next such events:

* Send out a press release at least one week before

* Make a list of things you want to achieve at the event and arrange
appointments beforehand (We were _really_ lucky this time).

* Have a stand crew and a team of people who visit others. Minimum for
   big events like Cebit are four people. It happened sometimes that we
   were busy explaining wikipedia to a crowd of casual visitors and
   behind was someone waiting with something important to say. Good to
   be able to divide work then without having to cut one talk off.

* Have at least one person in the crew who can explain the technical
   side and answer questions about mediawiki.

* create a wikipedia user account for the event and edit under this
   user name. Like this, you can show features like the watchlist
   without showing your private one and other wikipedians are
   warned.

* Prepare for no sleep (five hours are real luxury).

* Don't forget your business cards, Repeat: Don't forget your business
   cards. Ah, and make sure you don't run out fo business cards.

* a small bowl with gummib?rchen or other sweets doesn't cost much and
   is a nice gesture for visitors (idea stolen shamelessly from the KDE
   people). You only have to make sure that the stand crew doesn't eat
   them all.

* last but not least: for next year, we want a sofa and book shelves.

Pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cebit_2005
This report on meta: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cebit_2005

greetings and good night,
elian


subject: [Foundation-l] Report from Cebit


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Report from Cebit


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] main page protection not working

body:
Anthere wrote:
> reported on fr main page this morning on irc
> just witness on meta main page
>
> The main pages appear protected, but anyone can edit them. And ips can
> vandalize it.

meta [[Main Page]] is currently protected against moves only, not
against edits.

fr [[Accueil]] is protected against moves and edits, and I cannot edit
it as an anon. The protection log shows it was unprotected and
reprotected a few minutes after a vandalism reversion.

 From http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/protect :

# 14 mar 2005 ? 06:57 Alvaro a prot?g? [[Accueil]] ((donnez une raison)
je la reprotege)
# 14 mar 2005 ? 06:57 Alvaro a d?prot?g? Accueil ((donnez une raison) essai)
........
# 8 mar 2005 ? 10:27 Jyp a prot?g? [[Accueil]] (Contre les d?placements
uniquement)
# 8 mar 2005 ? 10:24 Jyp a d?prot?g? Accueil (Pas eu d'opposition suite
? la demande d'il y a une semaine (je vais la reprot?ger contre les
d?placements n?anmoins))

Jyp changed the protection on Accueil to move-only protection a week ago.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:27:01 +0100, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
> Their algorithm seems to be to link all capitalized words, except at
> the beginning of a sentence.
>
> Andre Engels
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:38:56 -0500, Henry Tan-Tenn
> <share2002nov at lomaji.com> wrote:
> > Taipei Times, a leading English-language daily in Taiwan, recently (I
> > think) added a function that allows on-line readers to "Wikipedia-ize" a
> > number of pre-selected keywords in its articles.  The keywords do not

Not so different from the Maglenski Wikiproxy (though it doesn't look
like the BBC adopted this as an official add-on):
    http://www.whitelabel.org/wp/wikiproxy.php

Do any wikipedian/bloggers use the related bookmarklet?
   http://scribbling.net/wikipedizetext

SJ


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
Linking to all uncommon capitalized words leads to some strange links like
[[Urging Beijing]] and to non-notable persons, but most links lead to
something.

Fred

> From: Henry Tan-Tenn <share2002nov at lomaji.com>
> Reply-To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:38:56 -0500
> To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Newspaper links article keywords to Wikipedia
>
> Taipei Times, a leading English-language daily in Taiwan, recently (I
> think) added a function that allows on-line readers to "Wikipedia-ize" a
> number of pre-selected keywords in its articles.  The keywords do not
> necessarily correspond to existing en: articles.  I have not seen an
> explanation posted regarding the thinking or motivation behind it (not
> being a regular reader), but it would seem to be a push to have its
> readers engage Wikipedia, perhaps conveniently incorporating or citing
> the paper's contents along the way.  For an example see
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2005/03/14/2003246212 (link
> labeled "Wikipedia" on the right).
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


list: wikien-l

from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [WikiEN-l] Unblock this IP: 217.33.74.20

body:
--- Violet/Riga <violetriga at gmail.com> wrote:
> RickK has banned IP 217.33.74.20 as a "returning vandal".  That IP is
> used by a school and I have requested on the talk page that misuse
> should be reported to me so that I can deal with the people
> responsible.  There has been no problems at all for over a month and
> RickK has not issued any warning on the talk page.  I can see nothing
> wrong in the contributions so perhaps articles were created (and
> subsequently deleted) but other than that there is no indication as to
> why he has blocked it.

Doesn't RickK have 'email this user' enabled? If not, then he should not be
blocking IPs since there is no obvious recourse for wrongly-blocked people to
make note of that fact. Same goes for all admins.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


from_name: Bernardo Bueno

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: ACL, Access Control List, cur_restrictions

body:
Sebastien BARRE <sebastien.barre <at> kitware.com> writes:

>
> Hi,
>
> OK, I know one of key feature of a Wiki is "unrestricted access to
> everyone", but there are some times when you definitely want to have a
> subpart of a Wiki to be more "private", or "read only", using a more
> sophisticated scheme than white-lists (no, I don't want to create a
> separate wiki).
>

 I also am interested in developing ACL. We can collaborate together. You can
send the information to me that you have on ACL in mediawiki.

Thank you very much

>
> Actually I just checked 1.4 and it seems there is a new
> Title::userCan($action) that seem to be called by
> userCanRead/userCanEdit... A hook near the end maybe, before 'return true'
> ? It uses getRestrictions(), which seems to pull something out of the
> cur_restrictions field, but this is not really documented, what's the
> format of that column in 'cur', something like
> edit:user1,user2;move:user3,user2, etc ?

I think that the format of that column in 'cur' is

  action1:group1,group2;action2:group3,group2

better than

  edit:user1,user2;move:user3,user2

I have done a modification that just work. I have changed the function protect
to prevent not just from edit, but also it allows to hide an article. In the
file article.php

FILE --- includes/Article.php

@@ -745,6 +745,12 @@
 				exit;
 			}

+			if ( !$this->mTitle->userCanHide () ) {
+				$wgOut->loginToUse ();
+				$wgOut->output ();
+				exit;
+			}
+

 			# We're looking at an old revision

@@ -1330,6 +1336,7 @@
 			$restrictions = "move=" . $limit;
 			if( !$moveonly ) {
 				$restrictions .= ":edit=" . $limit;
+				$restrictions .= ":view=" . $limit;
 			}
 			if (wfRunHooks('ArticleProtect', $this, $wgUser, $limit == 'sysop', $reason,
$moveonly)) {

FILE --- includes/Title.php

@@ -745,6 +745,13 @@
 		return false;
 	}

+	function isHidden () {
+		$a = $this->getRestrictions ("view");
+		$result = in_array ('sysop', $a);
+
+		return $result;
+	}
+
 	/**
 	 * Is $wgUser is watching this page?
 	 * @return boolean
@@ -815,6 +822,16 @@
 	}

 	/**
+	 * Can $wgUser hide this page
+	 *
+	 * @return boolean
+	 * @access public
+	 */
+	function userCanHide () {
+		return $this->userCan ('hide');
+	}
+
+	/**
 	 * Can $wgUser edit this page?
 	 * @return boolean
 	 * @access public
@@ -840,11 +857,20 @@
 	function userCanRead() {
 		global $wgUser;

+		if ($this->isHidden())
+		{
+			if ($wgUser->isAllowed ('hide'))
+				return true;
+			else
+				return false;
+		}
+
 		if( $wgUser->isAllowed('read') ) {
 			return true;
 		} else {
 			global $wgWhitelistRead;

+
 			/** If anon users can create an account,
 			    they need to reach the login page first! */
 			if( $wgUser->isAllowed( 'createaccount'

FILE --- includes/User.php

@@ -653,6 +653,7 @@
 			'rollback'      => 'sysop',
 			'block'         => 'sysop',
 			'editinterface' => 'sysop',
+			'hide'          => 'sysop',
 			'move'          => 'user',
 			'read'          => empty( $wgWhitelistRead ) ? '*' : 'user',
 			'createaccount' => '*' );


from_name: Jonathan ILIAS

subject: [Wikitech-l] Backup and reinstall question

body:
Klaus-Eduard Runnel a ?crit :
> 1. make an sql dump
> 2. use it to create the database on your new sql server
> 3. make a fresh MediaWiki install on your new location, setting the
> parameters correctly.
> 4. If you mess up with 2. or 3., start over.
>
> I think, that's the way I did it.

Depending on the local configuration, it may be needed to backup images/
directory.

--
Jonathan ILIAS, assistant p?dagogique
http://www.eseo.fr/~jilias/
ESEO
4, rue Merlet de la Boulaye
BP 30926 - 49009 ANGERS cedex 01 - FRANCE
t?l : 02 41 86 67 60


body:
--- Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is currently no requirement for admins on the English Wikipedia
> to enable their email. I proposed adding this to the policy almost a
> year ago, but there was no support for it.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Blocking_policy#Email_proposal

This is such a blindingly obvious thing that I?m shocked there was not more
support for it. I will continue to nag admins that don?t do this since so many
emails from people who get blocked go to me (since I?m one of the few admins on
the admin list that gives an obvious link to my ?email this user? form). I?m
sure most people don?t even get as far as the admin list.

In fact there should be an auto link to ?email the admin who blocked you? for
block messages. Of course the blocking admin need not respond via email and
thus give up their email address to vandals who may spam bomb them and there
should be a per IP throttle limit to the number of emails that can be sent
using this option (server side virus checks would also be useful).

But blocking an IP and not giving any potentially innocent people who also use
that IP an easy way to inform somebody about it, is not fair and very unwiki.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Re Abuse of blocking powers (The Recycling Troll)

body:
csherlock at ljh.com.au wrote:
> Fritz Wuehler wrote:

>> Please note that the wikipedia scum are doing the same routine to you

> Again, can someone kick Sollog off the mailing list?

This one actually appears to be WikiUser. My mistake!

- d.


from_name: Stephen Forrest

subject: [Wikipedia-l] International cooperation on sounds

body:
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:41:28 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
> One request, please add those pronunciations of important people, places
> etc to Commons, there is no better way of learning how something is to
> be pronounced for someone who is not failiar with your language.

Probably this goes without saying, but those interested in this will
probably wish to read

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Pronunciation_files_requests

to request pronunciations, to fulfil pronunciation requests, and
perhaps add links to pronunciation request pages on their own wikis.

cheers,

Steve


from_name: Andre Engels

body:
Their algorithm seems to be to link all capitalized words, except at
the beginning of a sentence.

Andre Engels

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:38:56 -0500, Henry Tan-Tenn
<share2002nov at lomaji.com> wrote:
> Taipei Times, a leading English-language daily in Taiwan, recently (I
> think) added a function that allows on-line readers to "Wikipedia-ize" a
> number of pre-selected keywords in its articles.  The keywords do not
> necessarily correspond to existing en: articles.  I have not seen an
> explanation posted regarding the thinking or motivation behind it (not
> being a regular reader), but it would seem to be a push to have its
> readers engage Wikipedia, perhaps conveniently incorporating or citing
> the paper's contents along the way.  For an example see
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2005/03/14/2003246212 (link
> labeled "Wikipedia" on the right).
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Pedro Fayolle

body:
This is a brilliant idea, I'll try to promote it on the Spanish wiki.

Pedro

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:41:28 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
>
> Three people, all very active in Wiktionary, agreed that the
> pronunciation of names and places are quit different in the non local
> languages. Many wikipedias add how a place is written in the language
> where this name is local.
>
> The three people pronounced a few words and, they have been added to
> commons. I have also been so bold to add these pronunciations to the
> wikipedias that have an article on these illustrious people; they are
> Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Silvio Berlusconi and George Walker Bush. I have
> added some famous Dutch politicians for good measure and, if you want me
> to pronounce Dutch words, you can always ask. I am aware that not
> everyone in a country pronounce things in the same way, but it is most
> often superior to what you make up if you see the characters that make
> up the name.
>
> One request, please add those pronunciations of important people, places
> etc to Commons, there is no better way of learning how something is to
> be pronounced for someone who is not failiar with your language.
>
> Thanks,
>    GerardM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Evan Prodromou

subject: [Wikitech-l] Late checkin on 1.4 branch

body:
On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 05:16:58PM -0500, Jonah Bossewitch wrote:

> > It's a good idea, but I don't think it'll improve clarity. I think the
> > current format is easier to write and read than having named params.
>
> I guess its partially a matter of opinion,

Let me say that I understand that there could be some value in using a
named-arg array. I understand that it would make adding new params
less invasive, although I think that that's a less-than-frequent
problem that can be handled other ways (another event, or adding
params at the end).

We disagree which calling method would be better. Can we agree that
named args are not _sufficiently_better_ that we should change this
part of the software just before a release? Or to keep event hooks out
of the release altogether? Because that's where this conversation is
going, and I really don't like that direction.

~Evan


from_name: Nicolas Weeger

body:
Thank you too, Villy.

I support what Anthere said. We can't just wait for things to happen on the legal side, but we must make sure we reasonably know what we can expect, issues that may fall on us, how to reply to that, and so on.

Nicolas "Ryo"

Acc?dez au courrier ?lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ;
3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34?/mn) ; t?l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34?/mn)


from_name: Ilya Haykinson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] FlickR

body:
At Wikinews we use Flickr fairly often, copying properly-licensed
photos to the Commons. Several times now I've even approached authors
of images there and asked them to relicense some good-looking photo to
cc-by or cc-by-sa.

Flickr used to have a web-based search for creative-commons-licensed
images. That search is now for some reason disabled, but I've written
an app for Windows that uses their API and lets you do a (rudimentary)
search for Flickr images matching a particular license (Attribution
and Attribution-ShareAlike obviously are the only ones that work for
the Commons).  The tool's homepage is
http://tiredbrain.com/wikinews/flickr/ if anyone else is interested.

-ilya

> From: Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] FlickR
>
> Hey, excellent.  Sadly, flickr doesn't want you to be able to
> transclude high-res images from their server... so there's still a
> reason to duplicate images there and on commons.
>
> SJ
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:39:46 +0100, Kurt Jansson <jansson at gmx.net> wrote:
> > Andrew Lih schrieb:
> > > There is also a Wikipedia gallery in Flickr:
> > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/pool/
> >
> > It says "no permission" if you are not member of the group. So after creating an
> > account, use the following link to join:
> > http://www.flickr.com/groups/48889047191 at N01/
> >
> > There is also a Wikipedia-tag:
> > http://flickr.com/photos/tags/wikipedia
> >
> > Kurt


from_name: Joseph Reagle

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia: wakeful, with invisible hands

body:
On Thursday 10 March 2005 00:20, Sj wrote:
> James Governor writes poetically about Wikipedia's magic, referencing
> the ongoing Wikipedia debate (don't tell me you had forgotten the
> continuing "Wikipedia Debate" echoing through the halls of academia) :

Semi-related thread:

http://reagle.org/joseph/blog/culture/wikipedia/usage-and-citation

...
[
Even in high school, when confronted with a rule prohibiting the citation of
a reference work I felt as if I was being encouraged towards plagiarism, or
at least unfairness. If a reference work points me to a more authoritative
source, should I at least not acknowledge this bit of help? Particularly,
if I'm more likely to be influenced by the summary provided by the
reference? Additionally why would any book among the thousands published a
year be any more authoritative than a general reference work on the sole
basis of its form? I could compile a multipage bibliography of books
denying the Holocaust, but find few -- if any -- general-purpose reference
works that did the same. The generality of the reference work insulates it
from partisan pressures because it must appeal to a wide audience over many
topics.
]
...


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Video uploaded...

body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:42:33 +0100, James R. Johnson
<modean52 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Why can't we simply use the avi or mpeg formats again?  Do we have to pay
> someone to encode the file, or what's the deal?  Those formats for video
> would get the widest reach of any file format.

See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_policy.

Steve


from_name: csherlock at ljh.com.au

body:
geni wrote:
>>If they want to vandalise Wikipedia, we'll vandalise them.
>>
>>Let's register at the WikipediaSucks forum! Yeah! Vandalise the place!
>>
>>~~~~
>
>
> That would be childish. Anyway I can't be bothered to set up a proxy
>

Now THAT is funny.

TBSDY


body:
Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Hi, Recycling Troll.
>
> Please note that the wikipedia scum are doing the same routine to you as they've
> done to many before. (Check back over this mailing list.) The wikipedia is
> not of course an online encyclopedia, there's plenty of real online encyclopedias,
> (you know, the places where wikipedia steals most of it's stuff from), it's
> a place where Jimmy Wales and other scum lure people in with a pack of lies
> and then proceed to do to them what they're starting in on doing to you.
>
> Many have tried to opppose their insanity. But you are flogging a dead horse.
> If you keep trying they'll just have loads of fun at your expense, as they
> control the system, and in the end carry out a bizarre an un-American great
> "court case" against you and then ban you. They are pathetic (but nasty) morons.
>
> Also did you know that Jimmy Wales is a sick pornograper?:http://www.247news.net/2004/20041211-wikipedia.shtml

Again, can someone kick Sollog off the mailing list?

Thanks.
TBSDY


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: public

body:
Tony Sidaway wrote:
> Charles Matthews said:
>
>>dpbsmith at verizon.net wrote
>>
>>
>>>The people trying to determine whether Australis is a republic should
>>>get together with WHEELER, who has expertise in that area.
>>
>>Gilbert & Sullivan had it down: the punishment should fit the crime.
>
>
> I'm all for clapping them in irons and sending them to a country on the
> other side of the world.  Oh wait...

Please, you can keep them.

TBSDY


from_name: Matt Kingston

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:

The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like

{WasBorn:1929}
(IsA:Woman}
{Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
{BornIn:Germany}

you get the idea. These facts or relationships tie together different articles in a more structured way. Presumably a user interface system could then be written that would take all the data and be able to do things like list off all the female german authors of the twentieth century.

Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database" could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.

Anyway, I'm no specialist in the area, I do know that there are some internet projects of this sort trying to teach computers "common sense" {Lion IsA Animal} I don't know how much success they've had. It might be usefull, but I'm not so sure it fits into wikipedias mandate.

Just my three cents.

Matt

---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


from_name: Violet/Riga

body:
RickK has banned IP 217.33.74.20 as a "returning vandal".  That IP is
used by a school and I have requested on the talk page that misuse
should be reported to me so that I can deal with the people
responsible.  There has been no problems at all for over a month and
RickK has not issued any warning on the talk page.  I can see nothing
wrong in the contributions so perhaps articles were created (and
subsequently deleted) but other than that there is no indication as to
why he has blocked it.

Can someone please unblock it, thanks...

~~~~ Violet/Riga


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Report from Cebit

body:
thanks for the report Elian :-)
Seems to have been a very productive meeting ;-)

Elisabeth Bauer a ?crit:
> Hiho,
>
> a report for all who were not there...
>
>  From 10th to 12th March 2005 Wikimedia was present at the world
> biggest computer fair, the cebit in Hannover, Germany. Our booth was
> located in the lovely neighbourhood of projects like Debian, KDE,
> Gnome and OpenOffice at the Linuxpark. Brockhaus was also present at
> Cebit, in the same hall like us. Unlike most of the other open source
> projects we had a whole booth for us, with a table for the
> presentations computer and leaflets. Decoration and Equipment was
> still scarce -- we used the posters left from [[FOSDEM 2005]], Nina
> provided her brandnew iBook as presentation computer.
>
> Day one started with a prominent visitor at our booth: Jon Maddog
> Hall. And of course he instantly discovered a mistake in
> Wikipedia. Looking up his biography in the english wikipedia, he found
> his name spelled wrongly -- good occasion to fix this (edit summary:
> "spelled my name correctly"). When I logged in to move the page
> afterwards, I could see one more time how fast Wikipedia works: RickK
> had already moved the page to the correct title (okay, there was some
> sort of redirect confusion...).
>
> In the following time the booth crew, Mathias Schindler, Nina,
> Southpark (en:Zeitgeist), Marco Krohn and I were busy answering
> questions from visitors. Most knew Wikipedia already and were
> interested in basic questions like "How do you make sure that no
> nonsense stays in?". People also showed lots of interest in the CD,
> DVD and print versions. And of course, some wikipedians passed by,
> too. A lot of people came with Mediawiki related questions which we
> tried to answer as good as possible, sometimes with help from the devs
> on IRC. For the next fair, it would be good to have a developer at
> the booth.
>
> In the afternoon, I held a presentation about Wikipedia at the
> Linuxpark forum. At six we closed down the booth and went together to
> the annual Wikipedia cebit meetup in the same old pub as last year,
> talking until late night about excellent articles, edit-wars, vfd (the
> usual wikipedia chitchat).
>
> The following day, Presroi and I had an radio interview with a
> journalist from NDR and were running around a lot establishing
> contacts. We left some dutch wikipedia leaflets at the booth of the
> Netherlands and I grumbled about myself that I had no info materials
> in Arabic to distribute it at the booths of the Arabic
> countries. Cebit could have been a possibility for us to promote
> wikipedia in those countries with bad internet connectivity and reach
> people who actually have internet there.
>
> Saturday, day three was supposed to be the busiest (with reduced
> entrance fees for students) but was relatively quiet for us, with people
> from berlinux passing by, inviting us to their next conference in Berlin
>   and so on.
>
> These are the lessons we learned for the next such events:
>
> * Send out a press release at least one week before
>
> * Make a list of things you want to achieve at the event and arrange
> appointments beforehand (We were _really_ lucky this time).
>
> * Have a stand crew and a team of people who visit others. Minimum for
>   big events like Cebit are four people. It happened sometimes that we
>   were busy explaining wikipedia to a crowd of casual visitors and
>   behind was someone waiting with something important to say. Good to
>   be able to divide work then without having to cut one talk off.
>
> * Have at least one person in the crew who can explain the technical
>   side and answer questions about mediawiki.
>
> * create a wikipedia user account for the event and edit under this
>   user name. Like this, you can show features like the watchlist
>   without showing your private one and other wikipedians are
>   warned.
>
> * Prepare for no sleep (five hours are real luxury).
>
> * Don't forget your business cards, Repeat: Don't forget your business
>   cards. Ah, and make sure you don't run out fo business cards.
>
> * a small bowl with gummib?rchen or other sweets doesn't cost much and
>   is a nice gesture for visitors (idea stolen shamelessly from the KDE
>   people). You only have to make sure that the stand crew doesn't eat
>   them all.
>
> * last but not least: for next year, we want a sofa and book shelves.
>
> Pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cebit_2005
> This report on meta: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cebit_2005
>
> greetings and good night,
> elia
> n


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Report from Cebit


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Video uploaded...

body:
I have a better idea. We can print a movie reel for each video, and
rather than have people download it we can have them come to the local
foundation headquarters to watch scheduled screenings of the videos
accompanying each article. No more worrying about standards!

And we could do the same with audio - write it all to LPs and play
them at scheduled  times.

Mark

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:53:09 -0500, Stephen Forrest
<stephen.forrest at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:42:33 +0100, James R. Johnson
> <modean52 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Why can't we simply use the avi or mpeg formats again?  Do we have to pay
> > someone to encode the file, or what's the deal?  Those formats for video
> > would get the widest reach of any file format.
>
> See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_policy.
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


body:
I think what he meant is, do we need a file of somebody pronouncing
"Gerard Meijssen" the Dutch way on the English wiktionary, or a file
of somebody pronouncing the way it is usually pronounced in English?

Jacques Chirac is pronounced /??k ????k/ in English from my
experience, while in French it would be (I think) /??k ????k/.

I don't know which side I take, the point of this e-mail was to
clarify V. Ivanov's question rather than to state my own opinion, so
please don't direct the response to the question at me.

Mark

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:20:31 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> V. Ivanov wrote:
>
> >Sorry, but what is the point here?
> >To provide real pronunciation files in the origin language or to
> >provide the standard pronunciation of the foreing word/name in the
> >target language?
> >
> >Sl.
> >
> Hoi,
> For Wikipedia and Wikinews the idea is to have pronunciation files in
> the original language so I would ask you to pronounce ????, ??????, ????
> ?????.
> For those that do not know Ossetian like me, this should read as
> Ossetian in Ossetian ;)
>
>  From a wiktionary point of view, it makes sense to have "Ossetisch" as
> well, the pronunciation of this Dutch word can be found here:
> http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ossetisch
>
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> <http://nl.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD_%C3%A6%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3&action=edit>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


body:
Oops. Make that /??k ????k/. How could I forget the French R?

Mark

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:44:20 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think what he meant is, do we need a file of somebody pronouncing
> "Gerard Meijssen" the Dutch way on the English wiktionary, or a file
> of somebody pronouncing the way it is usually pronounced in English?
>
> Jacques Chirac is pronounced /??k ????k/ in English from my
> experience, while in French it would be (I think) /??k ????k/.
>
> I don't know which side I take, the point of this e-mail was to
> clarify V. Ivanov's question rather than to state my own opinion, so
> please don't direct the response to the question at me.
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:20:31 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > V. Ivanov wrote:
> >
> > >Sorry, but what is the point here?
> > >To provide real pronunciation files in the origin language or to
> > >provide the standard pronunciation of the foreing word/name in the
> > >target language?
> > >
> > >Sl.
> > >
> > Hoi,
> > For Wikipedia and Wikinews the idea is to have pronunciation files in
> > the original language so I would ask you to pronounce ????, ??????, ????
> > ?????.
> > For those that do not know Ossetian like me, this should read as
> > Ossetian in Ossetian ;)
> >
> >  From a wiktionary point of view, it makes sense to have "Ossetisch" as
> > well, the pronunciation of this Dutch word can be found here:
> > http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ossetisch
> >
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> > <http://nl.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD_%C3%A6%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3&action=edit>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>


body:
reported on fr main page this morning on irc
just witness on meta main page

The main pages appear protected, but anyone can edit them. And ips can
vandalize it.

Ideas ?

Ant


from_name: Sj

subject: [Foundation-l] Report from Cebit

body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:37:27 +0100, Elisabeth Bauer <elian at djini.de> wrote:

Sounds fabulous.  Four people, eh?

> * last but not least: for next year, we want a sofa and book shelves.

Ooh,
   yes.

> Pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cebit_2005

But where are pictures from the pub?  :-)


subject: [Foundation-l] Report from Cebit


from_name: Simon Michael

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Converting ZopeWiki data to MediaWiki?

references:
<ctvn8k$hr9$1@sea.gmane.org> <4204395D.7060409@pobox.com>
	<cu82b5$te2$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Arne Heizmann wrote:
> I would have to
> figure out Zope's file format, and to do that, I would probably have to
> figure out Python.

Hi.. I think you mean Zwiki. There are a number of ways to the the data
out; a simple one is to take a snapshot of wiki contents or recent
changes, add /src to each of the page links, and wget them all.
There's no MW conversion tool that I know of.


body:
> Although kind of intriguing from a linguist's point of view, knowing
> how an Englishman pronounces "Jacques Chirac" isn't all that
> informative - an Englishman will already know, a Frenchman won't care
> and nor will, say, a Dutchman (unless, as I say, they are enthusiasts
> of some sort). It also immensely increases the number of target sounds
> to do it that way: every word available in every language as opposed
> to every word once (in its own language).

But, then, why include a clip on [[wikt:en:Health]] of how "health"
is pronounced by an Englishman? If I want to talk to my friend's wife
about Jacques Chirac but I have never heard the name before and am not
sure to say it /??k ??r?k/ or /??kw?z ??r?k/, I would want to know to
say it /??k ??r?k/ because /??k ????k/ will make me sound
oversophisticated or pedantic. However, there are still reasons I
would want to know the French pronunciation, so I think we should
include both.

Obviously, though, for words rather than names, it is only practical
to have a recording in the native tongue - I don't think it would be
wise to upload an "English"  pronunciation of "kyashnyam", a Hopi one
alone would be best.

> An amusing anecdote that's kind of relevant though is a piece on
> Channel 4's coverage of the Tour de France some years back (before
> they gave up covering it) in which they attempted to work out how to
> pronounce "Richard Virenque" - they showed a series of some half a
> dozen French people, all pronouncing it *completely* differently, and
> concluded that we should carry on using whatever pronunciation seemed
> best.

I would guess /????d v????k/ (roughly "rissh-shahd virr-rongk"), but
my knowledge of French orthography isn't too good. If Vincent is
subscribed to this list perhaps he can correct me.

Mark


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

body:
Stephen Forrest wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:41:28 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
><gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>
>>One request, please add those pronunciations of important people, places
>>etc to Commons, there is no better way of learning how something is to
>>be pronounced for someone who is not failiar with your language.
>>
>>
>
>Probably this goes without saying, but those interested in this will
>probably wish to read
>
>http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Pronunciation_files_requests
>
>to request pronunciations, to fulfil pronunciation requests, and
>perhaps add links to pronunciation request pages on their own wikis.
>
>cheers,
>
>Steve
>
Hoi
Well actually, I request all words in all languages :) This is a not
really practical so I started with Dutch politicians that have been
categorised on the English wikipedia. I will produce more
pronunciations in this way. Basically, everyone knows how much of a mess
it is when foreigners try to say something in your language. So have a
look at the bigger wikipedia's and start adding those to commons. Add
pronunciations and it will take some time before we will be asked to add
this missing word or that ..
Thanks,
  Gerard


list: wiktionary-l

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] International cooperation on sounds


from_name: Richard Holton

body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:14:27 +0000, Rowan Collins
<rowan.collins at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:44:20 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think what he meant is, do we need a file of somebody pronouncing
> > "Gerard Meijssen" the Dutch way on the English wiktionary, or a file
> > of somebody pronouncing the way it is usually pronounced in English?
> >
> > Jacques Chirac is pronounced /??k ????k/ in English from my
> > experience, while in French it would be (I think) /??k ????k/.
>
> Although kind of intriguing from a linguist's point of view, knowing
> how an Englishman pronounces "Jacques Chirac" isn't all that
> informative - an Englishman will already know, a Frenchman won't care
> and nor will, say, a Dutchman (unless, as I say, they are enthusiasts
> of some sort). It also immensely increases the number of target sounds
> to do it that way: every word available in every language as opposed
> to every word once (in its own language).
>
> So I think it's best to stick with (and this seems to be what Gerard
> is describing) one "native" pronunciation for each term.
>
> An amusing anecdote that's kind of relevant though is a piece on
> Channel 4's coverage of the Tour de France some years back (before
> they gave up covering it) in which they attempted to work out how to
> pronounce "Richard Virenque" - they showed a series of some half a
> dozen French people, all pronouncing it *completely* differently, and
> concluded that we should carry on using whatever pronunciation seemed
> best.
>
> The moral of which is probably that we need multiple pronunciations
> for each term, even within the restriction of them being "native". :)
>

Of course, the definitive pronunciation for any person's name is the
way that person pronounces it (or maybe the way that person's mother
pronounces it :-) ).

For some famous people, we ought to be able to get audio snippets of
them pronouncing their own name -- George W. Bush pronounced his own
name at his inauguration, didn't he?

Would such a audio snippet fall under fair use or equivalents?

--Rich Holton
en.wikipedia:User:Rholton


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Unblock this IP: 217.33.74.20

body:
Thanks to The Anome for unblocking this earlier.

Any chance you could let me know the reason for the ban, RickK?  I'll
look into it at this end where needs be.  Cheers.

~~~~ Violet/Riga


from_name: James R. Johnson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Video uploaded...

body:
Why can't we simply use the avi or mpeg formats again?  Do we have to pay
someone to encode the file, or what's the deal?  Those formats for video
would get the widest reach of any file format.

James

-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andre Engels
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:19 PM
To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Video uploaded...

I still protest the policies on this point. In the name of freedom, we
are enforcing a non-standard format, giving people extra problems to
just hear and see the sound files and videos on Wikipedia. Wikipedia
should be there for the normal internet user, not just for tech-savy
open-source-loving nerds.

My computer when seeing a .ogg-file, automatically assumes it's a
sound file, and thus I cannot see this movie. I know there are others
who don't even have software for .ogg-soundfiles. We are much too
strict on this point. What should bother us is not whether there are
any patents on a certain format, but whether free software exists to
play it. Where that is the case (for the most common platforms, or at
the very least for Windows and Unix), rejecting files because their
format is supposedly non-free is doing a disservice to our readers and
writers with no actual advantage to compensate for it.

Andre Engels

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:04:44 +1100, Robert Graham Merkel
<robert.merkel at benambra.org> wrote:
> In the grand tradition of actually getting things done on Wikipedia,
> Wikipedian KSheka, with some assistance from myself to convert the video
> to Theora, has gone ahead and uploaded a video of an "echocardiograph
> demonstrating systolic anterior motion of the anterior leaflet of the
> mitral value", which, translated, I think means "a video of a beating
> heart with a valve that's moving wrongly"
>
> You can see the article with the uploaded video at
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_cardiomyopathy
>
> Now we actually *have* a video in a patent-unencumbered codec uploaded
> to Wikipedia, and the ability to make more of them (transcoding to Theora
> is pretty straightforward once you've got ffmpeg2theora installed), the
> discussion about video I posted at http://meta.wikimedia.org/Video_policy
> becomes a little more directly relevant...
>
> >From my point of view, I'd be very interested in people's thoughts on
> what we should do to make best use of video (one thing that comes to
> mind is that we should always take a still from the video as
> illustration, but more thoughts are good)...
>
> Oh, and has there been any progress on implementing code for an approval
> process?
>
> --
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                            Robert Merkel
>                                      robert.merkel at benambra.org
>                                         http://benambra.org
>
> "And James Hird has just gone after Robert Harvey...that's like Bambi
> attacking Bambi"
>  -- Gerard Whately, Essendon vs. St Kilda, 3/4/2004
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


from_name: Pierre Abbat

subject: [Wikitech-l] database error on en: viewing history

body:
I tried to view the history of [[cosmetics]] and got the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cosmetics&action=history

Warning: mysql_query(): Unable to save result set in
/usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.4/includes/Database.php on line 324
        Unable to free MySQL result

Backtrace:

Database.php line 469 calls wfdebugdiebacktrace()
User.php line 455 calls databasemysql::freeresult()
Skin.php line 586 calls user::getnewtalk()
Skin.php line 433 calls skinstandard::pagetitlelinks()
Skin.php line 396 calls skinstandard::dobeforecontent()
Skin.php line 190 calls skinstandard::beforecontent()
OutputPage.php line 417 calls skinstandard::outputpage()
OutputPage.php line 614 calls outputpage::output()
Database.php line 360 calls outputpage::databaseerror()
Database.php line 309 calls databasemysql::reportqueryerror()
PageHistory.php line 73 calls databasemysql::query()
index.php line 181 calls pagehistory::history()

I'm using the Classic skin.

I hit reload and the history came up.

phma
--
Now I need a magnifier to find my eyeglasses!
	-Les Perles de la m?decine


from_name: Angela

body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:45:06 -0800 (PST), Daniel Mayer
<maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Doesn't RickK have 'email this user' enabled? If not, then he should not be
> blocking IPs since there is no obvious recourse for wrongly-blocked people to
> make note of that fact. Same goes for all admins.

There is currently no requirement for admins on the English Wikipedia
to enable their email. I proposed adding this to the policy almost a
year ago, but there was no support for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Blocking_policy#Email_proposal

It is a requirement on the Simple English Wikipedia:
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bans_and_blocks

Angela.


body:
V. Ivanov wrote:

>Sorry, but what is the point here?
>To provide real pronunciation files in the origin language or to
>provide the standard pronunciation of the foreing word/name in the
>target language?
>
>Sl.
>
Hoi,
For Wikipedia and Wikinews the idea is to have pronunciation files in
the original language so I would ask you to pronounce ????, ??????, ????
?????.
For those that do not know Ossetian like me, this should read as
Ossetian in Ossetian ;)

 From a wiktionary point of view, it makes sense to have "Ossetisch" as
well, the pronunciation of this Dutch word can be found here:
http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ossetisch

Thanks,
GerardM
<http://nl.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD_%C3%A6%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3&action=edit>


from_name: Delirium

body:
Richard Holton wrote:

>Of course, the definitive pronunciation for any person's name is the
>way that person pronounces it (or maybe the way that person's mother
>pronounces it :-) ).
>
>
An interesting feature is that some people actually pronounce their name
both in a "native-language" way and in an "English-like" way, depending
on who they're talking to.  This is fairly common among immigrants to
the United States and their immediate descendants, at least.  So which
version do we want then? =]

-Mark


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] ku:Wikipedia: is not ku:Wîk îpediya:

body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:49:48 +0100, Reinhardt Wiewe
<reinhardt.wiewe at lenauschule.de> wrote:
> Hall?!
>
> Why [[ku:Wikipedia:Sefaret]] is not the same as [[ku:W?k?pediya:Sefaret]] ?

MediaWiki's namespace system allows each namespace to have exactly 2
names: a "localized" name, specific to the language in question, and a
"canonical" name, which works on any wiki using the software, whatever
language is selected. For most namespaces, the canonical name is the
same as that on the English Wikipedia - "User:", "Talk:", etc.

But the "project" namespace ("Wikipedia:" on the English Wikipedia)
has to vary depending not only on the language, but on the name of the
project: "Wiktionary:", "Meta:", etc. Plus, we wouldn't want
"Wikipedia:" being used in projects which had nothing to do with
Wikipedia but used the same software. So the canonical name for that
namespace is "Project:".

So, [[ku:Project:Sefaret]] should work correctly, and be interpretted
as the same page as [[ku:W?k?pediya:Sefaret]]

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:32:43 -0800 (PST), Daniel Mayer
<maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> In fact there should be an auto link to 'email the admin who blocked you' for
> block messages.

There is one. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Blockedtext
but it's less useful for banned IPs since they'd need to first create
an account to make use of the "email this user" feature.

> server side virus checks would also be useful

This isn't necessary since only plain text emails can be sent through the wiki.

Angela.


from_name: Reinhardt Wiewe

subject: [Wikitech-l] ku:Wikipedia: is not ku:Wîkîpediya:

body:
Hall?!

Why [[ku:Wikipedia:Sefaret]] is not the same as [[ku:W?k?pediya:Sefaret]] ?

Regards Reinhardt [[User:gangleri]]


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
How about, "BnPlc", "Gndr", "BnTim", etc?

And why not store this sort of information in an entirely separate
offsite database? For example,
http://www.sklop-tsikn.dom/wiki/Lacabacadacanaca could read:

Lang= (article language)
Type= (article type, ie Plc place, Psn person, Tim time, Cpt concept, etc)
Plc.lng= (longitude)
Plc.lat= (latitude)
Plc.alt= (alternative names)
Plc.ati= (altitude)
Plc.att= (attitude)
Plc.pop= (population)
Plc.are= (area)
Pof= (is a part of...)
Icl= (includes... [things that are a part of it])
Rel= (otherwise related)

Mark

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:43:29 -0500 (EST), Matt Kingston
<matt_kingston at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>
> The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>
> {WasBorn:1929}
> (IsA:Woman}
> {Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
> {BornIn:Germany}
>
> you get the idea. These facts or relationships tie together different articles in a more structured way. Presumably a user interface system could then be written that would take all the data and be able to do things like list off all the female german authors of the twentieth century.
>
> Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database" could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.
>
> Anyway, I'm no specialist in the area, I do know that there are some internet projects of this sort trying to teach computers "common sense" {Lion IsA Animal} I don't know how much success they've had. It might be usefull, but I'm not so sure it fits into wikipedias mandate.
>
> Just my three cents.
>
> Matt
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Walter van Kalken

subject: [Foundation-l] thx Elian and Thx Anthere

body:
Instead of 2 mails I will do it in.

Thx Elian for the suggestions surrounding conferences

Thx Anthere for your suggestions.

Waerth


from_name: V. Ivanov

body:
Sorry, but what is the point here?
To provide real pronunciation files in the origin language or to
provide the standard pronunciation of the foreing word/name in the
target language?

Sl.

--
Esperu cxiam!


body:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:44:20 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think what he meant is, do we need a file of somebody pronouncing
> "Gerard Meijssen" the Dutch way on the English wiktionary, or a file
> of somebody pronouncing the way it is usually pronounced in English?
>
> Jacques Chirac is pronounced /??k ????k/ in English from my
> experience, while in French it would be (I think) /??k ????k/.

Although kind of intriguing from a linguist's point of view, knowing
how an Englishman pronounces "Jacques Chirac" isn't all that
informative - an Englishman will already know, a Frenchman won't care
and nor will, say, a Dutchman (unless, as I say, they are enthusiasts
of some sort). It also immensely increases the number of target sounds
to do it that way: every word available in every language as opposed
to every word once (in its own language).

So I think it's best to stick with (and this seems to be what Gerard
is describing) one "native" pronunciation for each term.

An amusing anecdote that's kind of relevant though is a piece on
Channel 4's coverage of the Tour de France some years back (before
they gave up covering it) in which they attempted to work out how to
pronounce "Richard Virenque" - they showed a series of some half a
dozen French people, all pronouncing it *completely* differently, and
concluded that we should carry on using whatever pronunciation seemed
best.

The moral of which is probably that we need multiple pronunciations
for each term, even within the restriction of them being "native". :)

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


body:
Hoi,
I am not an important person. So I will not record my name. Names and
words like Rembrandt van Rhijn, Vincent van Gogh, Scheveningen are more
relevant. I really want Americans to say Houston or New York and we
already have a "George Walker Bush", and need all these other Presidents
and famous Americans.. I want to have locations. English locations
spoken by an Englishman, Australian places spoken by an Australian. I
have done Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Vlissingen...

For nl:wiktionary I record the Dutch words in Commons for the nl: and
other wiktionaries; because that is one of the things that it takes to
have wiktionary stand out. Yes, I want recordings of words in Hopi too.

Thanks,
    GerardM

Mark Williamson wrote:

>I think what he meant is, do we need a file of somebody pronouncing
>"Gerard Meijssen" the Dutch way on the English wiktionary, or a file
>of somebody pronouncing the way it is usually pronounced in English?
>
>Jacques Chirac is pronounced /??k ????k/ in English from my
>experience, while in French it would be (I think) /??k ????k/.
>
>I don't know which side I take, the point of this e-mail was to
>clarify V. Ivanov's question rather than to state my own opinion, so
>please don't direct the response to the question at me.
>
>Mark
>
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:20:31 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
><gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>V. Ivanov wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sorry, but what is the point here?
>>>To provide real pronunciation files in the origin language or to
>>>provide the standard pronunciation of the foreing word/name in the
>>>target language?
>>>
>>>Sl.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Hoi,
>>For Wikipedia and Wikinews the idea is to have pronunciation files in
>>the original language so I would ask you to pronounce ????, ??????, ????
>>?????.
>>For those that do not know Ossetian like me, this should read as
>>Ossetian in Ossetian ;)
>>
>> From a wiktionary point of view, it makes sense to have "Ossetisch" as
>>well, the pronunciation of this Dutch word can be found here:
>>http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ossetisch
>>
>>Thanks,
>>GerardM
>><http://nl.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD_%C3%A6%D0%B2%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3&action=edit>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Wikipedia-l mailing list
>>Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikipedia-l mailing list
>Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
>


from_name: Bryan Derksen

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Matt Kingston wrote:

>Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>
>The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>
>{WasBorn:1929}
>(IsA:Woman}
>{Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
>{BornIn:Germany}
>
>
How about this:
[[Category:1929 births]]
[[Category:German authors]]
[[Category:Women]]

and on the article for "The Diary of a Young Girl" we could put
[[Category:Books by Anne Frank]]

>Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database" could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.
>
>
How about interwiki links on the category pages?

Categorization is pretty free-form at the moment, but standards have
been developing and the category structures have been slowly coalescing
so that eventually it might be adequate for these sorts of activities.
The birth/death categories are very standardized, the nationalities and
occupations less so but still useable. Most book articles don't have
authorship categories to them, but there are genre and publication date
categories most fall into.

There's no [[category:women]], but if there was a need for one it could
theoretically be created. Might not be popular at the moment, though,
considering how categories currently work; that'd be a fearsomely huge
category and splitting the nationality/occupation/birthdate categories
up instead would be rather awkward. Maybe once there are better
category-sorting functions supported (intersections, unions, etc.)

We're 90% of the way to what you've suggested already, let's not
reinvent the wheel and recategorize every article in the Wikipedias if
we can help it. :)


from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Video uploaded...

body:
So in other words, we don't want it, because it might not be free,
even though in reality it is. On the other hand, Ogg might also not be
free, but someone we like got the rights, so we don't care about that.

Andre Engels

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:53:09 -0500, Stephen Forrest
<stephen.forrest at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:42:33 +0100, James R. Johnson
> <modean52 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Why can't we simply use the avi or mpeg formats again?  Do we have to pay
> > someone to encode the file, or what's the deal?  Those formats for video
> > would get the widest reach of any file format.
>
> See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_policy.
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Jonah Bossewitch

subject: [Wikitech-l] Late checkin on 1.4 branch

body:
Sure, having the hooks with arrays is definitely better than not having them
at all. They won't be easy to change later, as people will have begun to
rely on them the way they are, which is why its risky to rush into them.

If you have the system redone as arrays, it would be really minimal to
refactor that into named arrays. I would certainly be willing to contribute
to the effort.  Either way.

Wouldn't life be dandy if there were units tests written to reassure us that
everything was still working the same before and after the change.  That's
what I should really be working on.

Anyway, as long as the references work, I'll drop the issue.  I think having
the hooks be part of the release is important, as it will help the mediawiki
software grow in different directions. Let me know how I can help.

/Jonah

----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Prodromou" <evan at bad.dynu.ca>
To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Late checkin on 1.4 branch

> On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 05:16:58PM -0500, Jonah Bossewitch wrote:
>
>> > It's a good idea, but I don't think it'll improve clarity. I think the
>> > current format is easier to write and read than having named params.
>>
>> I guess its partially a matter of opinion,
>
> Let me say that I understand that there could be some value in using a
> named-arg array. I understand that it would make adding new params
> less invasive, although I think that that's a less-than-frequent
> problem that can be handled other ways (another event, or adding
> params at the end).
>
> We disagree which calling method would be better. Can we agree that
> named args are not _sufficiently_better_ that we should change this
> part of the software just before a release? Or to keep event hooks out
> of the release altogether? Because that's where this conversation is
> going, and I really don't like that direction.
>
> ~Evan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] OTRS (II)

body:
I think there is a major problem with the way OTRS seems to work.

I say "seem" because I am not entirely sure it works the way I think it works. Here is the problem :

Yesterday, an editor contacted me to ask me what my opinion was on one of his mail.

"uh, which mail ?"

After digging in my personal email, then in the mailing list, it came to my understanding it was a mail sent to the OTRS, at board at wikimedia.org address.
So, I went to OTRS. I could not find the mail.

After I was given the number of the ticket by the editor, I looked for the ticket, and got a rather bland message "you are not permitted to view this ticket".

Ach so ?

I was told that Angela had already answered it, and this is how I realised something I had not till now.

When a message gets in OTRS, all board members can see it. Once a person answers the message, it is automatically transferred in his personal list, and blocked. It seems that from this moment, it becomes non accessible to others. That means neither the original message, nor the answer can be seen by others. I think it becomes visible again when the message is closed, but it seems that when it is not closed, permission to access it is just denied. The benefit of the personal file is that the owner of the message receives a personal warning if there is an answer sent in response to his answer.

I have a serious problem with this.

Previous to the OTRS system, we all received the mails sent to the board address.
The benefit was that we all were aware of mails sent to us.
The drawback was double. First it filled up the mail box. Second, if the one answering did not put us in copy, we had no way to know the mail was answered.

Now, with the OTRS system, these two problems could be solved IF all mails stayed in the main file where all members can see the mails coming in, as well as the answers given to it.
This is not the case.
Currently, once one person answers a mail, the others have no idea what the answer is. And if they did not have the time to come before the mail was answered, they even have no idea which mails were sent to the board, what they were about, who wrote them.

Or if there is a way to see the mails in the file of other members, I just could not find it. And I do not think Jimbo knows either. We are very confused about this system I fear :-)

I fear it would be unrealistic for us to always answer these mails with a global united voice. We just do not have time to discuss each mail before answering (sometimes we do of course). But generally, it is best that only one of us answer. However, I think it is absolutely mandatory that all of us are aware a mail was sent and on which topic and by who. And I think we should be able to see what the other member answered, if only to say privately to them we do not agree, or on the contrary to second the answer provided.

I think that people who write us to this address expect that we all have the opportunity to see at least the mail once, even if we do not answer it. Currently, we do not have this opportunity. And once some one has answered a mail, the others cannot answer it any more. There is something really not fitting here. I know not if the OTRS allows to change the preferences here. I think two options would be best :
* Either by default, all the answered mails are kept in the general board file, and from time to time, we close tickets.
* Or we could have a second file, hosting the mails we already answered to. These mails could have an owner to be warned possibly, but they should be accessible for read and write by all other members.

I think this should be default working for all OTRS files. I just do not very well understand the notion of "ownership" of a mail :-)

Now, if I just understood nothing of how OTRS works, and it is possible to see all mails somewhere, please inform me, because I feel really lost in this system. If too complicated, it ain't worth it. HELP PLEASE :-)

Ant

---------------------------------
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subject: [Foundation-l] OTRS (II)


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Theora / ogg usage

body:
Hello,

An old theme just came up on the Wikipedia mailing list again :
Wikipedia strongly
encourages[1] using theora encoding, strongly enough that I don't think we
currently host any other video encodings...[2] however, most users know
how to make and edit and play mpegs, and find theora hard to work with.

http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2005-March/038244.html

Perhaps the theora-dev list can help us overcome our technical problems so
that we have a reasonable choice in setting policy...

SJ

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_policy  (could use better
theora information)
[1.1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multimedia (ditto, also better ogg
information)

[2] Article containing one of the only known video files on Wikipedia :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_cardiomyopathy


subject: [WikiEN-l] User Survey

body:
I would like to draft a general (optional!) user survey, to offer in
sections to users who want to fill it out.  What do you think?  Take a
look at the current survey questions and comment.

I seem to recall a number of smaller surveys have been run in the
past;  if you have taken part in (or run) one of these, please link
the surveys to one another, or perhaps create a category for them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sj/Survey/draft
  (I know it's in my user space, but feel free to edit this page mercilessly.)

--
+sj+


subject: [Wikipedia-l] User Survey


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: main page protection not working

body:
I have not protected a page in so long, I did not realise we could
protect it in different ways now... Sorry :-)

Brion Vibber a ?crit:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> reported on fr main page this morning on irc
>> just witness on meta main page
>>
>> The main pages appear protected, but anyone can edit them. And ips can
>> vandalize it.
>
>
> meta [[Main Page]] is currently protected against moves only, not
> against edits.
>
> fr [[Accueil]] is protected against moves and edits, and I cannot edit
> it as an anon. The protection log shows it was unprotected and
> reprotected a few minutes after a vandalism reversion.
>
>  From http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/protect :
>
> # 14 mar 2005 ? 06:57 Alvaro a prot?g? [[Accueil]] ((donnez une raison)
> je la reprotege)
> # 14 mar 2005 ? 06:57 Alvaro a d?prot?g? Accueil ((donnez une raison) essai)
> ........
> # 8 mar 2005 ? 10:27 Jyp a prot?g? [[Accueil]] (Contre les d?placements
> uniquement)
> # 8 mar 2005 ? 10:24 Jyp a d?prot?g? Accueil (Pas eu d'opposition suite
> ? la demande d'il y a une semaine (je vais la reprot?ger contre les
> d?placements n?anmoins))
>
> Jyp changed the protection on Accueil to move-only protection a week ago.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com
> )
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Hoi
Sounds like relational data to me and, Wikidata is going to happen :)
Thanks,
    GerardM

Matt Kingston wrote:

>Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>
>The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>
>{WasBorn:1929}
>(IsA:Woman}
>{Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
>{BornIn:Germany}
>
>you get the idea. These facts or relationships tie together different articles in a more structured way. Presumably a user interface system could then be written that would take all the data and be able to do things like list off all the female german authors of the twentieth century.
>
>Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database" could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.
>
>Anyway, I'm no specialist in the area, I do know that there are some internet projects of this sort trying to teach computers "common sense" {Lion IsA Animal} I don't know how much success they've had. It might be usefull, but I'm not so sure it fits into wikipedias mandate.
>
>Just my three cents.
>
>Matt
>


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:

> Matt Kingston wrote:
>
>> Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>> The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>>
>> {WasBorn:1929}
>> (IsA:Woman}
>> {Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
>> {BornIn:Germany}
>
> How about this:
> [[Category:1929 births]]
> [[Category:German authors]]
> [[Category:Women]]
>
> and on the article for "The Diary of a Young Girl" we could put
> [[Category:Books by Anne Frank]]

I would question the wisdom and usefulness of a separate category for
all the books of any person who only wrote one book.

Ec


from_name: Matt Kingston

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
>How about this:
>[[Category:1929 births]]
>[[Category:German authors]]
>[[Category:Women]]
>
>and on the article for "The Diary of a Young Girl" we could put
>[[Category:Books by Anne Frank]]

The difference is that there is no automated way to discover that [[Category:Books by Anne Frank]] is a list of [[Books]] or how they're related to [[Anne Frank]]. Categories are meant as a means to group many similar things together; not show relationships between two things. And we could have [[Category:Children of Otto Heinrich Frank]] but that seems a little bit silly.

It's not about reinventing the wheel, but rather figuring out what job we want to do and what tool is best to do it. We can make categories to show relationships, but I don't think it's the best tool for _that_ job.

Matt

---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


from_name: Sj

subject: [WikiEN-l] English Wikipedia reaches 500,000 articles

body:
Please take another look at this press release:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_releases/March_2005

If you're interested in helping distribute the press release this
weekend, please add your name to the list of press-release
participants... or chime in on the talk page.

--
+sj+


subject: [WikiEN-l] Careless image deletion : a minor outrage

body:
Yesterday I came across a beautiful panorama, one which any reference
work would be thrilled to have, which had been *casually* put up for
deletion.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wuerzburg_panorama.jpg

This image had illustrated the article on Wuerzburg for a long while,
and was then removed by an anonymous edit in February.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=W%FCrzburg&diff=9939546&oldid=9902946

It was soon afterward listed for deletion as one of hundreds of
"unverified orphans" [UOs] listed in recent months. Quoth an
enthusiastic UO deleter:
  "I've been doing this for about a month, and it's been generally
well received."

Out of about 100 such images currently listed on Images for Deletion,
I found about 20 which were either clearly uploaded by their creators,
or seemed likely to have been (by virtue of composition, edit
summaries, image descriptions).  Some of these could clearly be used
productively in articles, even if they aren't at present; in
particular the Wuerzburg image and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Xi%27an_city_wall.jpg

[ Detailed rant:  http://tinyurl.com/4zpyb ]

This kind of careless deletion must stop.  It should be unacceptable
to list a borderline image for deletion, and only afterwards notify
the uploader, who may not even visit Wikipedia every week.

A cardinal rule of image deletion should be : take every precaution
not to irreversibly delete beautiful, free content.  Particularly so
long as we tolerate foolish debates about the unproven copyvio-status
of everyone's favorite autofellatio image.

--
+sj+


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Careless image deletion : a minor outrage


from_name: Kardos Andris

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Yes I meant it to be relational data.
Maybe a simple version. One table per index kind.
And on Wiki pages data-records like:

Person = {Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/Anne_Frank, Name: Anne Frank, Born: 1929,
Died: 1944, ....}
Writer = {Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/Anne_Frank, Name: Anne Frank, Language:
German, Duthch}
WWII_Victims = {Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/Anne_Frank}

The parser would add the data to the apropriate tables.

Gerard, what do you mean by, "it will happen"?

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerard Meijssen [mailto:gerard.meijssen at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:29 AM
To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
Cc: k.andris at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

Hoi
Sounds like relational data to me and, Wikidata is going to happen :)
Thanks,
    GerardM

Matt Kingston wrote:

>Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>
>The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>
>{WasBorn:1929}
>(IsA:Woman}
>{Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
>{BornIn:Germany}
>
>you get the idea. These facts or relationships tie together different
>articles in a more structured way. Presumably a user interface system could
then be written that would take all the data and be able to do things like
list off all the female german authors of the twentieth century.
>
>Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database"
>could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking
articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would
have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So
after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would
find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv
of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.
>
>Anyway, I'm no specialist in the area, I do know that there are some
>internet projects of this sort trying to teach computers "common sense"
{Lion IsA Animal} I don't know how much success they've had. It might be
usefull, but I'm not so sure it fits into wikipedias mandate.
>
>Just my three cents.
>
>Matt
>


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Marc O'Morain wrote:

>Also I would create a category Person. All people in Wikipedia would
>be part of this category. Also I would create Category:Men and
>Category:Women. These would be subcategories of Category:Person. All
>people in Wikipedia would be part of either Category:Men or
>Category:Women. If a user is looking for articles about people, they
>can simply search within Category:Person to find the information that
>they are looking for.
>
>(A page cannot be a member of both Men and Women - For this sake of
>argument please ignore trans genders, transsexuals etc, this is just a
>blackboard example.)
>
Hermaphrodites excepted.

>What happens when a wikipedia user edits the Liam Neeson page and adds
>Category:Women? Should wikipedia search what categories have been
>marked as disjoint (this is computationally expensive operation), and
>not add not allow the edit?
>
>Also, with the category system we could save Categories as virtual
>Categories. For example, consider that a VCategory is a virtual
>category:
>
>VCategory:Irish_Poets would simply be a re-direct to:
>Category:Irish (intersection) Category:Poets
>
>What do other people think?
>
>
The biggest disadvantage that this proposal carries is that it is so
logical.

I remember raising something of the sort before categories became a
reality.  It would certainly save us from developping a lot of one item
categories.

Ec


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Soundfiles;
	chicken and egg - now with loads of Italian politicians

body:
Hoi,

The use of .ogg files is a chicken and egg situation. Yes, we want
people to use .ogg files but when there are no .ogg files people will
not download the stuff they need to listen to it. There are many people
who do not upload soundfiles because it is not .wav or .mp3. There are
no sound files because people do not create them.

I propose that we have an ommlette and break some eggs. I have uploaded
some Dutch politicians, and I was really happy with the "George Walker
Bush" soundfile that I together with "Silvio Berlusconi" and "Jaap de
Hoop Scheffer" added to those wikipedia that have an article about these
gentlemen. Today I received the first installment of a large collection
of the pronunciations of Italian politicians from Sabine Cretella. They
are now available on the Commons. :)

What is needed to make this happen is people to record in the .ogg
format, upload it to Commons and make this the standard that it is; the
soundfile to be used on the Wikimedia projects. When we /show /that we
care about this standard, we can ask Mozilla.org to create a plugin. By
showing that we care, we make a difference.

By having LOADS of soundfiles in the .ogg format we can make this format
really relevant.

Thanks,
   GerardM


from_name: sannse

subject: [Foundation-l] OTRS (II)

body:
Anthere wrote:
> I think there is a major problem with the way OTRS seems to work.
>
> I say "seem" because I am not entirely sure it works the way I think it works. Here is the problem :
>
> Yesterday, an editor contacted me to ask me what my opinion was on one of his mail.
>
> "uh, which mail ?"
>
> After digging in my personal email, then in the mailing list, it came to my understanding it was a mail sent to the OTRS, at board at wikimedia.org address.
> So, I went to OTRS. I could not find the mail.
>
> After I was given the number of the ticket by the editor, I looked for the ticket, and got a rather bland message "you are not permitted to view this ticket".

In this situation, you should be able to see the message using search.
The link is on the left menu, and unless the board queue has a setting
different somewhere, you can see other people's mail there as well as
current and closed mail.  You can search on ticket number or text (the
writer's name for example) so it's usually not too difficult to find the
one you want.  To see all the recent mail in a queue, just select the
queue without adding any other search terms.

You may also be able to change owner at this way, either to replace it
in the main queue or to assign it to yourself (although, that might be
rather annoying for the current owner, depending on the situation and
why they locked it).  I can't remember whether I've tried changing owner
in this way, or only changed it on my own and open mails.

--sannse


subject: [Foundation-l] OTRS (II)


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Help positioning Google search box - Where is code
	for	navigation bar ?

body:
Alison Russell wrote:
> I have added a Google search box to my Wiki. I am using 1.4 beta-6.

Please upgrade to 1.4rc1 as soon as possible. Earlier releases include
cross-site scripting and other bugs which could potentially be exploited
to takeover accounts, etc.

> I
> have added it to monobook.php which is fine, but the length of the
> Google section extends right across the page. I want it to be the same
> width as the navigation, search and toolbox section. I think I should be
> adding it to the code that controls the left hand side panel of each
> page, the quickbar I think its called?!?
>
> Where do I find that code? And where should I add the Google link so
> that the text box and Google image appear after the search section and
> before the toolbox section along the left of the page?

Open up MonoBook.php and search for the first occurence of the word
"search", you'll find this bit:

<?php $this->msg('search') ?>

	    <form name="searchform" action="<?php $this->text('searchaction')
?>" id="searchform">
	      <input id="searchInput" name="search" type="text"
	        <?php if($this->haveMsg('accesskey-search')) {
	          ?>accesskey="<?php $this->msg('accesskey-search') ?>"<?php }
	        if( isset( $this->data['search'] ) ) {
	          ?> value="<?php $this->text('search') ?>"<?php } ?> />
	      <input type='submit' name="go" class="searchButton"
id="searchGoButton"
	        value="<?php $this->msg('go') ?>"
	        /> <input type='submit' name="fulltext"
	        class="searchButton"
	        value="<?php $this->msg('search') ?>" />
	    </form>

You'd want to put the equivalent code for your search right after it.
The class="portlet" on the outer
 and the class="pBody" on the
inner
 are important for keeping the size and style.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject:
[Wikitech-l] Automatic creation of a table of contents based
	on	headline text sections

body:
Alison Russell wrote:
> I noticed this feature being used in pages like:
> http://www.wikicities.com/wiki/User_talk:Jasonr
> where each headline text addition is automatically added to a dynamic
> table of contents.
>
> Is this a feature of MediaWiki or does anyone know what code is required
> to implement this? I think its a really neat function.

The table of contents is automatically displayed if there are three or
more (or was it more than three?) headers in the page.

You can suppress the table of contents on a page where you don't want it
by including __NOTOC__ in the page.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Neil Harris

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)

body:
Matt Kingston wrote:

>Sounds to me like it would be a sort of "expert" system. Consider:
>
>The Wikipedia article Anne Frank could have tags at the bottom like
>
>{WasBorn:1929}
>(IsA:Woman}
>{Wrote:The_Diary_Of_A_Young_Girl}
>{BornIn:Germany}
>
>you get the idea. These facts or relationships tie together different articles in a more structured way. Presumably a user interface system could then be written that would take all the data and be able to do things like list off all the female german authors of the twentieth century.
>
>Since facts aren't tied to one language, the "relationship database" could span all languages (since there is already a system for linking articles on the same subject to different languages). A relationship would have a certain ID internally with "translations" to different languages. So after typing in: {BornIn:Germany} in the english version, the computer would find the french equivelent of the relationship -BornIn- and the french equiv of Germany and update the french Anne_Frank article accordingly.
>
>Anyway, I'm no specialist in the area, I do know that there are some internet projects of this sort trying to teach computers "common sense" {Lion IsA Animal} I don't know how much success they've had. It might be usefull, but I'm not so sure it fits into wikipedias mandate.
>
>Just my three cents.
>
>Matt
>
>
>
I'm working on something like this already; it's an experimental Wiki
with the ability to embed special links, in this case with the format
[[property = value]].
These are then used to maintain entries  in a tuple table, which is in
turn used to generate an alternate RDF view of the page.. Yes, you can
do [[is a = thing]]. Bits of Web GUI are generated based on class
deifinitions, and you can also do things like import CSV tables, and I
hope export them as well. I'm currently working on [[same as = thing ]]
and logical inference, as well as extending this to trans-wiki inference.

Hopefully some of this experience will be useful, when it becomes time
to add this to Wikipedia. For now, it won't hurt at all to use templates
to encode this sort of information, so some data will be available
first, before the knowledge-mining software gets written.

-- Neil


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re:WikiIndex (idea)


from_name: Nino Novak

subject: [Wikitech-l] article::view error on de.wikipedia.org

body:
(Where to report this?)

Opening
   http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal-Standard-Software
repeatedly produced the following output:

---------------------------------------------------
Warning: mysql_query(): Unable to save result set
in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.4/includes/Database.php on line
324
 Unable to free MySQL result

Backtrace:

Database.php line 469 calls wfdebugdiebacktrace()
User.php line 464 calls databasemysql::freeresult()
SkinTemplate.php line 254 calls user::getnewtalk()
OutputPage.php line 417 calls skinmonobook::outputpage()
OutputPage.php line 614 calls outputpage::output()
Database.php line 360 calls outputpage::databaseerror()
Database.php line 309 calls databasemysql::reportqueryerror()
Parser.php line 3005 calls databasemysql::query()
Parser.php line 195 calls parser::replacelinkholders()
OutputPage.php line 243 calls parser::parse()
Article.php line 795 calls outputpage::addprimarywikitext()
index.php line 127 calls article::view()
-----------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Nino


from_name: Delirium

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Theora / ogg usage

body:
Sj wrote:

>[2] Article containing one of the only known video files on Wikipedia :
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_cardiomyopathy
>
I was about to write a mail asking you where in the world there's a
video file on that page, but after about 10 minutes of looking and
mouseovering every single link, I finally figured out that the .ogg file
on that page is actually a video file.  Even using Mozilla Firefox on
Linux, clicking on the link spawned my audio player, due to the .ogg
extension, which in typical use means "Ogg Vorbis audio file".

.ogm (for "Ogg Media") is a de-facto standard extension for Ogg files
containing video, but I'm not aware of whether Xiph.org has a position
on that.

I'm not sure whether sending the right content-type headers would fix
the problem; perhaps it would?  At the very least, it should say on the
page that this is in fact a video file, rather than hoping that people
will be able to infer that it's supposed to be a video file...

-Mark