subject: [Wikipedia-l] Moldovan/Romanian

body:
Anthere, did you read the debate at all? The problems with the vote?

This has been an issue for almost a year now I believe.

If you want to close it, do you have an alternative method for
Cyrillic content in this language?

And it wasn't the "Moldovan Wikipedia community" that voted -- all but
6 of the voters had no account on mo.wiki.

Mark

On 08/03/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Brion,
>
> Can you please block (stop/freeze) the moldovan wikipedia and moldovan
> wiktionary, after a link to the romanian version is simply put on the
> moldovan main pages ?
>
> Do not do a redirect from one to the other (so that the current content
> at mo stays visible to anyone).
>
> Do not delete the mo databases (<small>semi-private joke</small>)
>
> Thanks
>
> Ant
>
>
> PS : if *anyone* feels like the moldovan project should be reopened
> later on, for whatever reason, fine. But let's close it now.
>
> REPS : can all current contributors to this topic on this mailing list
> *freeze* and avoid sending any mails on the issue for ... say ... 24
> hours ? Please ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin


list: textbook-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Karl Wick

subject: [Textbook-l] major WikiBooks cleanup

body:
Help!

Wikibooks in in disarray, and we need to work together to make it
presentable, if we really want anyone to ever use it.

We have been working on the (English) main page for the last week, getting
rid of the bunches of dead links, organizing the information, and makin' it
look purty. But there is still work to be done there. Especially making sure
that all of the links that are there take people right to the information
that will be most helpful to them, and eliminating or consolidating all
other options.

And there is still a lot of work to be done to the pages that are linked
from the front page, as these are the first and most important pages that
newcomers will find. (Especially Wikibooks:About; Welcome, newcomers;
Wikibooks:FAQ; etc.)

It is time to begin to elect a couple of books that we can take as far as
possible, to ready them for actual real-world use. It is much better to have
one great example than have 1,000 bad, mediocre, or half-done examples.

Karl

PS I was living outside my homeland for over a year there, in a place with
limited internet access. But now I am back, and eager to get back to work to
make this a resource that really will change the world!


list: wikien-l

from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
{{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}

I've certainly put it on *my* user page.

(Under the, ahh, userboxes.)

- d.


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> {{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
>
> I've certainly put it on *my* user page.
>
> (Under the, ahh, userboxes.)
>
>
> - d.

Hmm fails CSD T1

And what about those people fighting over relgious userboxes.
--
geni


list: wikitech-l

from_name: XaosFluX

body:
While an image could contain a redirect, redirects are only for internal
links, not external links.

xaosflux

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugenia Tenneriello" <e.tenneriello at criai.it>
To: "WikiTech-I" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: [Wikitech-l] How to redirect from an image?

> Hello,
> I would like to redirect to an external page from an image , but I can't
> redirect from any page of my website.
> What parameters have I set to make any redirections?
> How can I redirect from an image?
> Thanks in advance
> Eugenia Tenneriello
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Ilmari Karonen

subject: [WikiEN-l] Guardian interview to appear Monday

body:
Tony Sidaway wrote:
>
> "Admitting" that our main competitor is a paper encyclopedia with over
> a century of brand leadership is good.  It shows the potential reader
> that we're aiming high but are aware that we have a way to go.
>
> I also like the bit about being cheaper than the Encyclopedia
> Galactica and having the words "Don't Panic" in large, friendly
> letters on the cover.

..especially now that [[Wikipedia:Don't panic]] actually exists. :)

--
Ilmari Karonen


subject: [WikiEN-l] [WikiEn-l] Image license tags

body:
Kat Walsh wrote:
> On 3/8/06, Mark Wagner <carnildo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The "CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat" tag is a problem: of the seven images
>>so tagged, two of them had decidedly non-free "provided that" clauses,
>>forbidding modification and commercial use.
>
> This holds with what I've seen... the majority of the
> "CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat" images that I've seen are not free
> (some are "provided that this image not be used for commercial use"!)
> -- enough so that I wonder if it wouldn't be better to get rid of the
> template altogether and ask the copyright holders of the other images
> to license under CC-BY.

A similar situation existed with the plain "CopyrightedFreeUse" tag due
to its vague wording, which is why I've been gradually deprecating it
and recommending the more explicit "NoRightsReserved" tag instead.  The
"...ProvidedThat" tag at least has the virtue that we _know_ anything
tagged with it has extra conditions that need to be checked.

Perhaps we should add a "CopyrightedFreeUseWithAttribution" tag to cover
the most common legitimate case, and then go through the rest with a
fine comb?  Not sure what such a tag would gain over CC-BY, though,
except that some people may simple be categorically opposed to CC.

--
Ilmari Karonen


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder

body:
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?

Mark

On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> and
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
> official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent
> nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
>
> In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers
> of Tetum (see:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
>
> Subsequently, I created a test page
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
> articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
> Tetum.
>
> Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a
> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can
> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up
> or not.
>
> I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can
> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language
> internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo
> said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
> creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
> people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic
> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is
> also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin,
> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of
> getting the message through to them."
>
> I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in
> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all,
> you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
>
> Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
>
> Thanks & regards,
> Manuel de Sousa
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin


body:
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.

That's not what I asked.

It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki
are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.

Mark

On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> Mark,
> Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded as
> a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary
> comes directly from Portuguese.
>
> Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of this
> project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the easy
> way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles, in
> order to translate them later.
>
> Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated.
> Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
>
> Regards,
> Manuel de Sousa
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:30
> Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>
> One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
>
> Mark
>
> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> > Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
> > (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> > and
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> > asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
> > official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
> independent
> > nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
> >
> > In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers
> > of Tetum (see:
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> > 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
> >
> > Subsequently, I created a test page
> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
> > articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
> > Tetum.
> >
> > Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a
> > Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can
> > inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up
> > or not.
> >
> > I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can
> > be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
> language
> > internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
> d'Angelo
> > said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
> > creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
> > people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic
> > infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
> is
> > also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin,
> > where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of
> > getting the message through to them."
> >
> > I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in
> > Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
> all,
> > you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
> >
> > Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
> >
> > Thanks & regards,
> > Manuel de Sousa
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin


from_name: Philip Welch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Real, absurd articles

body:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheely_Willy

Includes fair use image of book cover called "How Willy Got His
Wheels". Legitimate article!

I suggest making the fair use image Featured Image, Communism the
Featured Article, and having other links relating to...pelicans?

--
Philip L. Welch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philwelch


from_name: Jesse W

subject: [WikiEN-l] The admin problem

body:
A-men!  I also strongly support *either* not deleting (nearly) any
userboxes *or* deleting (nearly) all of them, rather than the current
horrible debacle.  I'm hoping that Jimbo will take action on one of
these directions.

Jesse Weinstein

On Mar 8, 2006, at 7:36 AM, John Lee wrote:
> The userbox debate, on the other hand, has both sides assuming bad
> faith
> of the other, and those taking a stand who don't ABF or otherwise act
> like dicks are in the clear minority. It's the opposite of the
> deletionist/inclusionist debate. Most of the "anti-userboxes" people
> I've seen love to speedy/support speedying as many userboxes that might
> be deemed factionalist as possible, regardless of disagreement because
> "it's the right thing to do". Most of the "pro-userboxes" people I've
> seen will immediately yell "ZOMG ADMIN ABUSE" when an admin blocks a
> pro-userboxen fellow because they *think* the admin blocked the fellow
> for that reason, or when an admin speedies a userbox, regardless of
> whether it really is divisive. (Case in point: the deletion of the
> UDUIW
> userbox, which I already brought up on the list.)
>
> The userbox debate has been particularly poisonous to the Wikipedian
> community because of how starkly the lines have been drawn, and how
> belligerently those on either side of the line have behaved towards one
> another. Whereas once the rogues were in the minority in the
> deletionist/inclusionist spectrum, it is now commonplace to see people
> yelling assumptions of bad faith and incivil remarks from the
> tree-tops,
> while the voices of those trying to be reasonable/civil on either side
> are drowned out.
>
> I think those trying to speedy delete/keep all userboxes have got it
> wrong -- userboxes are not important in the long run to the fate of
> Wikipedia. What's important is reasoning with each other, assuming good
> faith, and spreading WikiLove. If we can't do this, we haven't just
> lost
> the "userbox war", we've lost the war to build an encyclopedia through
> the wiki process. And that, my friends, is where I believe we are
> headed. And please, don't cast the blame on "rogue deletionist admins"
> or "unacculturated newbies". Practically *everyone* involved in this
> dispute has been up to their neck in bad faith and WikiHate. I don't
> know about you, but if sacrificing userboxes (or sacrificing the
> deletion of divisive userboxes) is what it takes to restore good faith
> and WikiLove to the community, I'd take the latter over the former any
> second.


from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/8/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > {{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
> Hmm fails CSD T1

As you wish, we'll rigidly apply policy: it isn't a template because
it's in the user namespace.

--
Sam


subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:18 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> {{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
Wow.  The text of the page, next to a picture of a atom bomb cloud, is
the text: "This user believes
userboxes should
burn in
[[Blogosphere|hell]]."  What a perfect example of what John Lee said
just now (
http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2006-March/041476.html )
about how the userbox issue is making people on both sides act deeply
uncivil.  This is not helpful, and this is not what our community
should be about.  While I greatly appreciate Sam Hocevar's
contributions (such as godmode-lite), I'm sorry he made this page.

Jesse Weinstein


subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/8/06, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/8/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > {{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
> > Hmm fails CSD T1
>
> As you wish, we'll rigidly apply policy: it isn't a template because
> it's in the user namespace.
>
> --
> Sam

You accept that argument? Good.

--
geni


subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/8/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> You accept that argument? Good.

Yes.  Indeed, you have my full permission to take my words out of
context and otherwise twist them to give them whatever meaning you so
desire.

--
Sam


subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/8/06, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/8/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You accept that argument? Good.
>
> Yes.  Indeed, you have my full permission to take my words out of
> context and otherwise twist them to give them whatever meaning you so
> desire.
>
> --
> Sam

You stated that policy did not support the extension of T1 outside the
template namespace (or at least not within the user namespace). This
is of course correct if not reflective of the practice of some of our
more enthusiastic userbox removers. Do you wish withdraw or modify
your statement?

Of course no one is really expecting you to rigidly apply policy as
flawed as T1 because deleting [[Template:Nazism]] would probably be
regarded as stupid by pretty much everyone.

On a personal level I think the new userbox sucks. But then at the
last count I thought that about:

Userboxes in general (I can just about tolerate Babel boxes although I
would rather people got the embassy system working instead)
Messages on userpages saying "this page has been vandalised X times"
where X is a single figure number
Image galleries on userpages (subpages exist for a reason)
[[Wikipedia:Esperanza/User Page Award]]
Complex coding on User talk pages

However unless your image gallery is made up of fair use images I am
not going to interfere with your choice to have a sucky userpage.

--
geni


list: foundation-l

from_name: ! Chris Sherlock

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
Short and sweet: we have too many of them, most of them aren't being used as
"fair use" images, many don't have sources, almost none have fair use
criteria, and more than a few are being used in articles that have no real
need for them.

May I suggest that we start taking action on this issue? IMO they are a
ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Not only that, but they are diluting
the "freeness" of the project and causing problems for those who want to use
our material unaltered.

TBSDY


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


from_name: John Lee

subject: [WikiEN-l] The admin problem

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:

>geni wrote:
>
>
>>On 3/7/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Obviously, the larger and more contentious the community, the bigger the
>>>challenge of consensus.  But we cannot undertake such a debate without
>>>an open analysis of parliamentarianism's defects.  Such a system
>>>encourages the forming of parties that will promote and protect
>>>particular policies, and who will be happy to have their POV succeed by
>>>a bare majority.  It leads to the tyranny of the majority.
>>>
>>>
>>Parties generaly require a representive democracy. What we have is
>>closer to the athian system.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Oh, I don't know; first there were the Inclusionists, Deletionists and
>Mergists; then there were the "joke parties" like the
>AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD; then the ultra-conservative nuts like the
>Association of Moral Wikipedians, Wikipedians for Decency, and finally
>the Catholic Alliance of Wikipedia...
>
>...and now, while the people who still take the ADW and AIW seriously
>are largely confined to AFD/DRV (where they've become anally retentive
>process fetishests), two new powers have emerged: the Pro- and Anti-
>Userboxes camps.
>
>An interesting thing to note about all of the wrangling is that most of
>it has been about "What is Wikipedia"; the Inclusionsionist/Deletionist
>debate was largely about whether we should have articles on schools or
>not, and the Userbox debate seems to be about whether user pages are
>free webspace where you can promote your political agendas or not.
>
>
I don't know if anyone ever took those things seriously, let alone to a
factionalist partisan level. I know I didn't. I just joined the ADW
because I *tend* to agree with the deletion of most articles I see on
VfD/AfD, and even if I disagreed with the rest, I couldn't stomach the
behaviour of the inclusionists. I *think* I later joined the AMW,
because I think merging is a good compromise. I would have joined the
AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD, but I think my "bipartisan" approach has
already made it clear that I don't pre-judge articles. :p

Most hard-line partisan deletionists and inclusionists would be that way
even if the ADW and AIW were never founded, IMO. I've never seen any
reference to either of those in AfDs, because the vast majority of
deletionists and inclusionists at least behaved politely to one another.
Only a couple of rogues polluted the image of either side.

The userbox debate, on the other hand, has both sides assuming bad faith
of the other, and those taking a stand who don't ABF or otherwise act
like dicks are in the clear minority. It's the opposite of the
deletionist/inclusionist debate. Most of the "anti-userboxes" people
I've seen love to speedy/support speedying as many userboxes that might
be deemed factionalist as possible, regardless of disagreement because
"it's the right thing to do". Most of the "pro-userboxes" people I've
seen will immediately yell "ZOMG ADMIN ABUSE" when an admin blocks a
pro-userboxen fellow because they *think* the admin blocked the fellow
for that reason, or when an admin speedies a userbox, regardless of
whether it really is divisive. (Case in point: the deletion of the UDUIW
userbox, which I already brought up on the list.)

The userbox debate has been particularly poisonous to the Wikipedian
community because of how starkly the lines have been drawn, and how
belligerently those on either side of the line have behaved towards one
another. Whereas once the rogues were in the minority in the
deletionist/inclusionist spectrum, it is now commonplace to see people
yelling assumptions of bad faith and incivil remarks from the tree-tops,
while the voices of those trying to be reasonable/civil on either side
are drowned out.

I think those trying to speedy delete/keep all userboxes have got it
wrong -- userboxes are not important in the long run to the fate of
Wikipedia. What's important is reasoning with each other, assuming good
faith, and spreading WikiLove. If we can't do this, we haven't just lost
the "userbox war", we've lost the war to build an encyclopedia through
the wiki process. And that, my friends, is where I believe we are
headed. And please, don't cast the blame on "rogue deletionist admins"
or "unacculturated newbies". Practically *everyone* involved in this
dispute has been up to their neck in bad faith and WikiHate. I don't
know about you, but if sacrificing userboxes (or sacrificing the
deletion of divisive userboxes) is what it takes to restore good faith
and WikiLove to the community, I'd take the latter over the former any
second.

John


from_name: Fastfission

subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
I would second a call for this -- being able to import diffs into a
simple database, for example, would allow one to easily sort out edit
histories for things like RfAr's.

FF

On 3/8/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>  Wondering if there is a simple tool which would allow me to download
> the diff history of an article, preferably in some concise and human
> readable format. I'm trying to watch an edit war, and need a bit of
> help understanding all the additions and removals. In particular, I'd
> like to know if there are any sneaky changes getting in under the
> radar (like when someone partially reverts an edit).
>
> I'd really like to avoid touching a database dump if at all possible :)
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-03-09

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Running test BUG 361: URL within URL, not bracketed... FAILED!
Running test External links: invalid character... FAILED!
Running test Bug 2702: Mismatched <i> and <a> tags are invalid... FAILED!
Running test A table with no data.... FAILED!
Running test A table with nothing but a caption... FAILED!
Running test Link containing "#<" and "#>" % as a hex sequences... FAILED!
Running test Template with thumb image (wiht link in description)... FAILED!
Running test Link to image page... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A ISBN with a thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A <math> with a thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test BUG 561: {{/Subpage}}... FAILED!
Running test Simple category... FAILED!
Running test Basic section headings... FAILED!
Running test Section headings with TOC... FAILED!
Running test Handling of sections up to level 6 and beyond... FAILED!
Running test Resolving duplicate section names... FAILED!
Running test Template with sections, __NOTOC__... FAILED!
Running test Link inside a section heading... FAILED!
Running test Media link with nasty text... FAILED!
Running test Bug 2095: link with pipe and three closing brackets... FAILED!
Running test Parser hook: static parser hook inside a comment... FAILED!
Running test Sanitizer: Validating the contents of the id attribute (bug 4515)... FAILED!

Passed 266 of 288 tests (92.36%) FAILED!


from_name: Daniel R. Tobias

body:
On 8 Mar 2006 at 15:06, Justin Cormack <justin at specialbusservice.com> wrote:

> I was wondering, there is an organisation called the Wikimedia
> Foundation that might be interested in hosting a free encyclopaedia,
> they seem to host quite a lot of them, and just the one non free
> one.

...and the way to make it free is to impose tighter restrictions on
what people can put in it.  Freedom is Slavery, and all that...

--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
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from_name: Steve Bennett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
Hi all,
 Wondering if there is a simple tool which would allow me to download
the diff history of an article, preferably in some concise and human
readable format. I'm trying to watch an edit war, and need a bit of
help understanding all the additions and removals. In particular, I'd
like to know if there are any sneaky changes getting in under the
radar (like when someone partially reverts an edit).

I'd really like to avoid touching a database dump if at all possible :)

Steve


from_name: Nathaniel Sheetz

subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
It's not exactly what you're looking for, but one of the history animation
tools might do the trick.  I've used them before to view how an article
changes with each edit.  They're listed at [[WP:TOOLS]], and one of them is
at http://phiffer.org/projects/wikipedia-animate/ .

Spangineer / Nathaniel

On 3/8/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Wondering if there is a simple tool which would allow me to download
> the diff history of an article, preferably in some concise and human
> readable format. I'm trying to watch an edit war, and need a bit of
> help understanding all the additions and removals. In particular, I'd
> like to know if there are any sneaky changes getting in under the
> radar (like when someone partially reverts an edit).
>
> I'd really like to avoid touching a database dump if at all possible :)
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Nathaniel C. Sheetz
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ncs124


from_name: Manuel de Sousa

body:
Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
and
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent
nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).

In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers
of Tetum (see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).

Subsequently, I created a test page
(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
Tetum.

Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a
Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can
inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up
or not.

I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can
be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language
internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo
said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic
infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is
also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin,
where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of
getting the message through to them."

I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in
Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all,
you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.

Plz let me know where are we standing of this.

Thanks & regards,
Manuel de Sousa


body:
Mark,
Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary
comes directly from Portuguese.

Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles, in
order to translate them later.

Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated.
Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...

Regards,
Manuel de Sousa

-----Mensagem original-----
De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:30
Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder

One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?

Mark

On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> and
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
> official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
independent
> nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
>
> In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them native-speakers
> of Tetum (see:
>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
>
> Subsequently, I created a test page
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
> articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
> Tetum.
>
> Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in a
> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer can
> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set up
> or not.
>
> I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it can
> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
language
> internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
d'Angelo
> said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
> creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
> people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with basic
> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
is
> also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby Darwin,
> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case of
> getting the message through to them."
>
> I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia, in
> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
all,
> you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
>
> Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
>
> Thanks & regards,
> Manuel de Sousa


from_name: michael_irwin at verizon.net

subject: [Foundation-l] Glad we are not in New Jersey

body:
Robert Scott Horning wrote:

>Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hoi,
>>I found this http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A1500/1327_I1.HTM
>>My question, if this happened in Florida, would we indeed insist on
>>knowing the names of our users ? Or would we say that our projects are
>>not a forum?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>  GerardM
>>
>>
>>
>>

The link provided is not working in Thunderbird for me.  Does anyone
have a different link or if could past in the txt of the link rather
than the html perhaps mine would work.

If no better link is available or a response to this request is ill
advsied; sweat it not!  I will try a search eventually, I got to a web
site.  Looks odd.  Thin for an official site.

Meanwhile, I have some local legal research to complete regarding
public/private capital resources and abitrary direction from adujicating
enforcers either ignorant (or unwilling to share knowledge regarding
same) of ORS when making threats.   Gotta update my local ideology and
practice maps and check in with a couple of cogs in the local political
machinery.

If this lands me at one of the local animal shelters.   I am confident I
will be back in communications within a few months one way or another.
later

lazyquasar

>None of this even addresses the legal knot of trying to see exactly what
>servers would be under New Jersey law.  Even if this were U.S. Federal
>law instead, the legal issues would be a mess just to see if a server
>could even qualify for enforcement of this law.
>
>
>
We ain't teen nothiingk yet.  What jurisprudences when Yanker fans for
teams to establish BOINC clients for Mnet's/GnuNet's phase lag JVM or
PVM.  I mean nobody wants a distributing computing or dc problem like a
disgrantles NSA whistleblower or 13 script kiddie in the Phillipines to
be able to knockdown Wall Street for a week while they try to reset New
York grid because of a logic bomb attack at the xpilot finals of the Del
Rey Foundation's Sahara's solar sailing cup or Rocket Jockey's jersey
swaps?  I mean the electrical and signal guys know how to
design/instrument/run the complex planes but not all of it can be
eprom's and firmware jit rev level delivery at extremely high net
margins.  Ala SEL SS backup vs IFDAPS.    Some of it need to be ladder
logic at juice levels adequate to keep the air conditioning running in
Air Force one while its in the middle of LAX or Boston International for
an emergency trim to face the nation on the why to an appropriate
terminal bunker?   Sorry if I garbled that, only saw a few minutes of
ending of ToraTricerRexus,  White Kaavick, at local londons alleged
location circa nuclear birth certificate.  RAPIDS indeed.  Maybe better
send a little rocky road to the gsa3t10s in recognition and belated
appreciation for past services rendered?  fractalis fidelis missoni
you guys got any mango juice?  my dad drank mine weeks before the word
was publically given,  a few cans have been going stale in benchstock
for months and suddenly it is long gone?  I still have the cans with the
logistics codes.  Probably will reinvest the nickels soon, I never cared
much for the key management end of things.  Key archivals are like
anchors, need good tax base for stability and security.
Rather RMCC some liquid or real sunshine than play treasure farm. Anyone
think it worth cc to Wankel, he might go for it.


from_name: Patrick, Brad

body:
Our projects are forums.  Always and forever.  Remember that please!!

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
michael_irwin at verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:04 AM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Glad we are not in New Jersey

Robert Scott Horning wrote:

>Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hoi,
>>I found this http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A1500/1327_I1.HTM
>>My question, if this happened in Florida, would we indeed insist on
>>knowing the names of our users ? Or would we say that our projects are

>>not a forum?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>  GerardM
>>
>>
>>
>>

The link provided is not working in Thunderbird for me.  Does anyone
have a different link or if could past in the txt of the link rather
than the html perhaps mine would work.

If no better link is available or a response to this request is ill
advsied; sweat it not!  I will try a search eventually, I got to a web
site.  Looks odd.  Thin for an official site.

Meanwhile, I have some local legal research to complete regarding
public/private capital resources and abitrary direction from adujicating
enforcers either ignorant (or unwilling to share knowledge regarding
same) of ORS when making threats.   Gotta update my local ideology and
practice maps and check in with a couple of cogs in the local political
machinery.

If this lands me at one of the local animal shelters.   I am confident I

will be back in communications within a few months one way or another.

later

lazyquasar

>None of this even addresses the legal knot of trying to see exactly
>what servers would be under New Jersey law.  Even if this were U.S.
>Federal law instead, the legal issues would be a mess just to see if a
>server could even qualify for enforcement of this law.
>
>
>
We ain't teen nothiingk yet.  What jurisprudences when Yanker fans for
teams to establish BOINC clients for Mnet's/GnuNet's phase lag JVM or
PVM.  I mean nobody wants a distributing computing or dc problem like a
disgrantles NSA whistleblower or 13 script kiddie in the Phillipines to
be able to knockdown Wall Street for a week while they try to reset New
York grid because of a logic bomb attack at the xpilot finals of the Del
Rey Foundation's Sahara's solar sailing cup or Rocket Jockey's jersey
swaps?  I mean the electrical and signal guys know how to
design/instrument/run the complex planes but not all of it can be
eprom's and firmware jit rev level delivery at extremely high net
margins.  Ala SEL SS backup vs IFDAPS.    Some of it need to be ladder
logic at juice levels adequate to keep the air conditioning running in
Air Force one while its in the middle of LAX or Boston International for
an emergency trim to face the nation on the why to an appropriate
terminal bunker?   Sorry if I garbled that, only saw a few minutes of
ending of ToraTricerRexus,  White Kaavick, at local londons alleged
location circa nuclear birth certificate.  RAPIDS indeed.  Maybe better
send a little rocky road to the gsa3t10s in recognition and belated
appreciation for past services rendered?  fractalis fidelis missoni you
guys got any mango juice?  my dad drank mine weeks before the word was
publically given,  a few cans have been going stale in benchstock for
months and suddenly it is long gone?  I still have the cans with the
logistics codes.  Probably will reinvest the nickels soon, I never cared
much for the key management end of things.  Key archivals are like
anchors, need good tax base for stability and security.
Rather RMCC some liquid or real sunshine than play treasure farm. Anyone
think it worth cc to Wankel, he might go for it.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
W. Guy Finley wrote:

>I think the first step is that any unlicensed image being uploaded as fair
>use and does not have a source and fair use rationale should be speedied.  I
>bet that's more than half of them right there.  The process of tagging them
>as no source and then waiting a week is just way too long and too
>susceptible to error.  It's the UPLOADER'S duty to make sure he/she is
>meeting license requirements, if they aren't met the image should go.  It
>shouldn't be the duty of the reviewer to prove it and that's usually the
>perception.
>
When you consider that some of these have already been here for a long
time without attracting attention, one more week is obviously a very
short time to wait.  It avoids the error of creating unnecessary
confusion.  Nobody's challenging the uploader's duty, or passing that
duty on to the reviewer; your unique perception does not make it so.
There's no reason to panic about this.

Ec


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day proposal

body:
On 3/8/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> If Wikipedians are so foolish as to believe that AfD would be abolished,
> they nre more gullible than I give them credit for.
>
> Ec

I has been proposed quite a few times

--
geni


from_name: Nathan Spaeth

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Trying to purge the annoying cache without
	using'action=purge'

references:
<bf4479300603080758h6f17a779ua9f7ecfc6a268d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dumvib$m39$1@sea.gmane.org> <440FF364.2040802@computerkultur.org>
	<dup43b$ndr$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
I found this in DefaultSettings.php.. It might help if you want to pretty up
the action=purge part

/**
 * To set 'pretty' URL paths for actions other than
 * plain page views, add to this array. For instance:
 *   'edit' => "$wgScriptPath/edit/$1"
 *
 * There must be an appropriate script or rewrite rule
 * in place to handle these URLs.
 */
$wgActionPaths = array();

--
If you have a penny and I have a penny, and we exchange pennies, we both
have one penny but if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange
ideas, then, we will both have two ideas.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
Hi,
  Is there any doc on that? I installed greasemonkey and the
wikipedia-animate tool, but I don't see anything special. In
particular, even on a WP history page, the menu item "User script
commands" is greyed out.

Steve

On 3/9/06, Nathaniel Sheetz <spangineer at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not exactly what you're looking for, but one of the history animation
> tools might do the trick.  I've used them before to view how an article
> changes with each edit.  They're listed at [[WP:TOOLS]], and one of them is
> at http://phiffer.org/projects/wikipedia-animate/ .
>
> Spangineer / Nathaniel
>
> On 3/8/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > Wondering if there is a simple tool which would allow me to download
> > the diff history of an article, preferably in some concise and human
> > readable format. I'm trying to watch an edit war, and need a bit of
> > help understanding all the additions and removals. In particular, I'd
> > like to know if there are any sneaky changes getting in under the
> > radar (like when someone partially reverts an edit).
> >
> > I'd really like to avoid touching a database dump if at all possible :)
> >
> > Steve
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel C. Sheetz
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/ncs124
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Ben Lowe

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
Funny, it appears the userbox war ended while no one was paying attention.
As of yesterday, T1 became G10, which was then rolled into G3 as "no attack
pages", defined as a page which disparages its subject.  "Divisive" and
"inflammatory" and "polemical" appear to have gone the way of "VfD" and
"Jimbo on Wheels!"  Given the "attack pages" def, {{burninhell}} appears to
be one of the only userboxes left that *does* qualify for deletion.

Ben

On 3/9/06, John Lee <johnleemk at gawab.com> wrote:
>
> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
>
> >geni wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>{{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
> >>>
> >>>I've certainly put it on *my* user page.
> >>>
> >>>(Under the, ahh, userboxes.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>- d.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Hmm fails CSD T1
> >>
> >>And what about those people fighting over relgious userboxes.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Technically it's not a userbox; it's not the same size and shape as all
> >the others. Also, it doesn't have any categories.
> >
> >
> T1 applied to templates, not userboxes, IIRC (although Jimbo and sannse
> did craft it with intention to tackle boxen). I'm having a hard time
> telling how seriously the creator or others are taking this "template"
> (due to its large size I wonder if anyone is currently transcluding it).
> I know I didn't find it all that funny. It sounds too much like what's
> already been said before. True parody should twist things that have been
> said to produce something entirely different and absurd.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Ilia Alshanetsky

subject: [Wikitech-l] PHP 5.1.3RC1 testing

body:
Hello!

You are receiving this email because your project has been select to
take part in a new effort by the PHP QA Team to make sure that your
project still works with PHP versions to-be-released. With this we hope
to make sure that you are either aware of things that might break, or to
make sure we don't introduce any strange regressions. With this effort
we hope to build a better relation between the PHP Team and the major
projects.

If you do not want to receive these heads-up emails, please reply to me
personally and I will remove you from the list; but, we hope that you
want to actively help us making PHP a better and more stable scripting
language.

The first release candidate of PHP 5.1.3 can be found at
http://downloads.php.net/ilia/php-5.1.3RC1.tar.bz2. This is not a final
RC, but we hope it will be followed by a final RC2 that should be
released in mid-March. At this time I would like to ask you to test
your application against this release and let us know about any issues
that you discover. We are particularly interested in backwards
compatibility breaks and new issues appeared in this release, but were
not present in prior 5.1 versions. If you find any issues, please
contact the PHP QA team at "php-qa at lists.php.net".

In case you think that other projects should also receive this kinds of
emails, please let me know privately, and I will add them to the list of
projects to contact.

regards,

Ilia Alshanetsky
5.1 Release Master


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:20:16 -0800, you wrote:

> What a perfect example of what John Lee said
>just now (
>http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2006-March/041476.html )
>about how the userbox issue is making people on both sides act deeply
>uncivil.

You think?  I think parody is one of the few truly sane and
appropriate reactions displayed thus far.
Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Tim 'avatar' Bartel

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Trying to purge the annoying cache
	without	using'action=purge'

body:
Hi Wikipedians,

Phil Boswell schrieb am 08.03.2006 17:07:
> "thomas Armstrong" <tarmstrong at gmail.com>
>
>>I try to make MedaWiki serve the very last webpage, instead of the cached
>>one.
>>I've just found out the tip of adding 'action=purge' to the URL, but
>>is there another way without
>>using this URL extra code?
>
> [Ctrl-F5] works for IE; YMMV depending upon which browser you are using.
>
> You can also instruct your browser to empty its cache.

Perhaps I have missed something, but...

action=purge is for purging the server-side (mediawiki) cache and has
nothing to do with the client-side (browser cache / ctrl-reload)

...or am I totally confused?

Bye, Tim.

--
Fernab jeder hormonellen Verblendung faellt eine frappierende
Aehnlichkeit in Koerperbau, Haltung, Mimik, Feingefuehl und
technischem Sachverstand zwischen Frau und Tyrannosaurus Rex
unmittelbar ins Auge. (Juergen Ernst Guenther in dasr)
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subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
I can't find anything.  I haven't reinstalled it since my recent hard drive
crash, and my attempts to reinstall it now haven't worked.  I'm no expert on
these things, so I don't understand the problem either.  Perhaps the scripts
haven't been updated for the new version of Greasemonkey; I'm not sure.
Sorry about that.

Nathaniel

On 3/9/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>   Is there any doc on that? I installed greasemonkey and the
> wikipedia-animate tool, but I don't see anything special. In
> particular, even on a WP history page, the menu item "User script
> commands" is greyed out.
>
> Steve
>
> On 3/9/06, Nathaniel Sheetz <spangineer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's not exactly what you're looking for, but one of the history
> animation
> > tools might do the trick.  I've used them before to view how an article
> > changes with each edit.  They're listed at [[WP:TOOLS]], and one of them
> is
> > at http://phiffer.org/projects/wikipedia-animate/ .
> >
> > Spangineer / Nathaniel
> >
> > On 3/8/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Wondering if there is a simple tool which would allow me to download
> > > the diff history of an article, preferably in some concise and human
> > > readable format. I'm trying to watch an edit war, and need a bit of
> > > help understanding all the additions and removals. In particular, I'd
> > > like to know if there are any sneaky changes getting in under the
> > > radar (like when someone partially reverts an edit).
> > >
> > > I'd really like to avoid touching a database dump if at all possible
> :)
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nathaniel C. Sheetz
> > http://www.personal.psu.edu/ncs124
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Nathaniel C. Sheetz
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ncs124


from_name: Juanma Barranquero

subject: [Wikitech-l] How to redirect from an image?

body:
On 3/9/06, XaosFluX <xaosflux at gmail.com> wrote:

> While an image could contain a redirect, redirects are only for internal
> links, not external links.

If you have access to your Apache's setup, you can add this to httpd.conf:

  RedirectMatch permanent "^/redirect/(.*)" http://$1

Then you can define an interwiki link like this:

 INSERT
   INTO wikidb.interwiki   /* or whatever database.name it has */
 VALUES
   ('r', 'http://yourhost/redirect/$1', 0, 0);

And then you can do external redirects:

 #REDIRECT [[r:path]]

which would redirect to http://path

Redirecting to https would be posible through another pair of
(RedirectMatch directive, interwiki link), or changing the above to
use

 #REDIRECT [[r:protocol/path]]

and redefining the RedirectMatch directive accordingly.

Of course, such redirects can only be edited by using

  http://yourhost/wiki?title=MyRedirectedPage&redirect=no

so this setup it's for the (moderately) experienced.

--
                    /L/e/k/t/u


from_name: Mark Gallagher

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
G'day Sam,

> On 3/8/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>{{User:Sam Hocevar/burninhell}}
>>
>>Hmm fails CSD T1
>
> As you wish, we'll rigidly apply policy: it isn't a template because
> it's in the user namespace.

Nonsense.  We have three labels here:
a) Templates
b) Things in template space
c) Things in user space

A template is a template is a template.  If someone creates a template
in userspace, they can't say it's not a template simply because it's not
in the template namespace.  Likewise, it's theoretically possible to
create something in template space that isn't a template, though I've
not seen it done.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 8/03/2006


from_name: Andrew Gray

body:
On 08/03/06, Tony Sidaway <f.crdfa at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/8/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > So the main message was: we're not Britannica, but we're better than
> > *anything* else readily available on the web. "We make the Web not
> > suck." And we're actually good and useful as a reference work *right
> > now*.
>
> "Admitting" that our main competitor is a paper encyclopedia with over
> a century of brand leadership is good.  It shows the potential reader
> that we're aiming high but are aware that we have a way to go.

Incidentally, I encountered for the first time someone actually
confusing Wikipedia with Britannica the other day... I wonder if this
is an effect of EB bing the thing we're always checked against.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Brian

subject: [Wikitech-l] Please enable bot filtering on en.wp watchlists

body:
One of the groups of pages on my watchlist is a large number of year
articles. My watchlist has been constantly flooded with bots adding
interwiki links to these pages. Out of the 122 items on the first page
of my watchlist, 77 are Chobot year edits.

According to "Wegge", da.wp has run fine for 8 months with
$wgFilterRobotsWL = true;

Can someone please enable this on en.wp?

Thanks.

brian0918


from_name: Robert Scott Horning

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

>W. Guy Finley wrote:
>
>
>
>>I think the first step is that any unlicensed image being uploaded as fair
>>use and does not have a source and fair use rationale should be speedied.  I
>>bet that's more than half of them right there.  The process of tagging them
>>as no source and then waiting a week is just way too long and too
>>susceptible to error.  It's the UPLOADER'S duty to make sure he/she is
>>meeting license requirements, if they aren't met the image should go.  It
>>shouldn't be the duty of the reviewer to prove it and that's usually the
>>perception.
>>
>>
>>
>When you consider that some of these have already been here for a long
>time without attracting attention, one more week is obviously a very
>short time to wait.  It avoids the error of creating unnecessary
>confusion.  Nobody's challenging the uploader's duty, or passing that
>duty on to the reviewer; your unique perception does not make it so.
>There's no reason to panic about this.
>
>Ec
>
>
>
Keep in mind that many of the oldest images were uploaded before
explicit licensing was required, and a general assumption that the
content was uploaded with licensing under the GFDL.  That assumption has
since been proven to be inaccurate in many cases, and a reason why this
is no longer taken at face value.  Still, going after older unlicensed
images is hardly a good policy, especially when the uploader didn't know
they were supposed to provide licensing information.  For new images and
recent uploads, yeah, you need to meet the licensing requirements.  And
copyright enforcement is done on most images that are recent uploads.

I believe that Commons has been cleaned up of this older content, but
en.wikipedia has a huge backlog of content review that may take years to
go through before it is completely cleaned out and all of the older
images have been verified (as much as reasonable) for copyright
violations, and several other Wikimedia projects may have problems in
this area as well.

--
Robert Scott Horning


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


from_name: Matt Brown

body:
On 3/9/06, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08/03/06, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
>
> > There is also a problem with pre-1923 things marked "PD-US" that are not
> > necessarily PD worldwide.
>
> Most PD-Art tagging, as well, relies on a relatively unusual provision
> of US copyright law (indeed, a provision made by a court case) which
> isn't a direct match for foreign legislation. Hum.

Decided by a court case BUT fairly obvious from the US constitution
and copyright law as worded.  Copyright is, in the US, only valid for
creative expression; thus, there is no such thing as 'mechanical
copyright' in the US as in other nations.

-Matt


from_name: Silas Snider

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Question:
	What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia?
Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,
etc. on  wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of
yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in
various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.

	My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the
arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?

Sincerely,
Silas Snider

Mark Williamson wrote:
> Yes, thanks.
>
> Mark
>
> On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
>> I understand you point of view, Mark.
>>
>> I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so.
>> Does this seem fair to you?
>>
>> Thanks & regards,
>> Manuel de Sousa
>>
>> -----Mensagem original-----
>> De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
>> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
>> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:50
>> Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>>
>> I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
>>
>> That's not what I asked.
>>
>> It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki
>> are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
>>> Mark,
>>> Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
>> as
>>> a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary
>>> comes directly from Portuguese.
>>>
>>> Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
>> this
>>> project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
>> easy
>>> way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
>> in
>>> order to translate them later.
>>>
>>> Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated.
>>> Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Manuel de Sousa
>>>
>>> -----Mensagem original-----
>>> De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
>>> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
>>> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:30
>>> Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>>> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>>>
>>> One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
>>>> Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
>>>>
>> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
>>>> and
>>>>
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
>>>> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
>>>> official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
>>> independent
>>>> nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
>> native-speakers
>>>> of Tetum (see:
>>>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
>>>> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
>>>>
>>>> Subsequently, I created a test page
>>>> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
>>>> articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
>>>> Tetum.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
>> a
>>>> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
>> can
>>>> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
>> up
>>>> or not.
>>>>
>>>> I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
>> can
>>>> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
>>> language
>>>> internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
>>> d'Angelo
>>>> said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
>>>> creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
>>>> people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
>> basic
>>>> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
>>> is
>>>> also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
>> Darwin,
>>>> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
>> of
>>>> getting the message through to them."
>>>>
>>>> I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
>> in
>>>> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
>>> all,
>>>> you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
>>>>
>>>> Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>> Manuel de Sousa
>> --
>> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikipedia-l mailing list
>> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>>
>
>
> --
> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

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from_name: SJ

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
On 3/9/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> W. Guy Finley wrote:
> >I think the first step is that any unlicensed image being uploaded as fair
> >use and does not have a source and fair use rationale should be speedied.  I
>
> When you consider that some of these have already been here for a long
> time without attracting attention, one more week is obviously a very
> short time to wait.  It avoids the error of creating unnecessary
> confusion.  Nobody's challenging the uploader's duty, or passing that
> duty on to the reviewer; your unique perception does not make it so.
> There's no reason to panic about this.

I agree with Ec entirely.  Image deletion is broken precisely because
it cannot be undone; please do not use it when deletion can be
avoided.

It is also the duty of text uploaders to describe the text's source,
and justify its applicability to the article; nevertheless, we engage
in discussion with editors rather than deleting insufficiently sourced
work.  This mainly works because you can remove text from a page
without deleting it from the edit history.

Consider creating a quarantine for images that appear to be improperly
tagged, or improperly used; removing images to that quarantine, and
leaving them there for a reasonable length of time (a month?) before
deleting them.  If anyone tries to remove a quarantined image, they
must give an explanation or proper tag.

SJ


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
Yes, thanks.

Mark

On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> I understand you point of view, Mark.
>
> I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so.
> Does this seem fair to you?
>
> Thanks & regards,
> Manuel de Sousa
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:50
> Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
>
> I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
>
> That's not what I asked.
>
> It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki
> are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
>
> Mark
>
> On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> > Mark,
> > Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
> as
> > a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary
> > comes directly from Portuguese.
> >
> > Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
> this
> > project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
> easy
> > way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
> in
> > order to translate them later.
> >
> > Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated.
> > Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Manuel de Sousa
> >
> > -----Mensagem original-----
> > De: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
> > [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson
> > Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Mar?o de 2006 3:30
> > Para: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
> >
> > One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa <manuel.sousa at tvtel.pt> wrote:
> > > Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group
> > >
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> > > and
> > >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> > > asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two
> > > official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest
> > independent
> > > nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese).
> > >
> > > In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
> native-speakers
> > > of Tetum (see:
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> > > 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29).
> > >
> > > Subsequently, I created a test page
> > > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen
> > > articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to
> > > Tetum.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
> a
> > > Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
> can
> > > inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
> up
> > > or not.
> > >
> > > I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
> can
> > > be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national
> > language
> > > internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe
> > d'Angelo
> > > said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the
> > > creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole
> > > people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
> basic
> > > infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There
> > is
> > > also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
> Darwin,
> > > where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
> of
> > > getting the message through to them."
> > >
> > > I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
> in
> > > Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of
> > all,
> > > you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Plz let me know where are we standing of this.
> > >
> > > Thanks & regards,
> > > Manuel de Sousa
> --
> "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
"Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin


subject: [WikiEN-l] The irony here is giving me a headache

body:
I found this on User:The Halo's page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AThe_Halo&diff=42259024&oldid=42125492

User:StrangerInParadise is explicitly using the categories in the userboxes
to stack votes against *taking categories out of userboxes to avoid
vote-stacking.*  More than anything this frustrates the crap out of me
because, until now, I've only heard of a couple vote-stacking incidents.  Is
there a userbox for "This user is unaware of absurd ironies"?

Ben


from_name: V. Ivanov

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] RFC: Principles of mass content adding on small
	Wikipedias

body:
2006/3/8, Lars Aronsson <lars at aronsson.se>:
> Creating a stub entry for every little town in the
> country where the language is spoken, or for every semi-famous
> person that speaks the language, can fill gaps that other websites
> in the same language didn't cover.  The importance of this effect
> depends heavily on how many other websites already exist in the
> language.

That's a very important point!
Stubs are underestimated by speakers of larger languages, but for
those who speak a smaller language even a stub information is often a
good piece of knowledge.
For some it can be useful enough as it is, for others it can be a
challenge to write in *their mother tongue* a larger article.

That's why I am interested in the project, Milos is talking about.

Slavik IVANOV

--
Esperu cxiam!


from_name: Kirill Lokshin

body:
On 3/9/06, Ben Lowe <ben.lowe at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found this on User:The Halo's page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AThe_Halo&diff=42259024&oldid=42125492
>
> User:StrangerInParadise is explicitly using the categories in the userboxes
> to stack votes against *taking categories out of userboxes to avoid
> vote-stacking.*  More than anything this frustrates the crap out of me
> because, until now, I've only heard of a couple vote-stacking incidents.  Is
> there a userbox for "This user is unaware of absurd ironies"?

I think there was some pretty extensive discussion on WP:AN/I
regarding those messages; it's probably been archived by now, though.

In some sense, the userbox situation is a microcosm of many of the
various Wikipedia conflicts that have cropped up at some point: free
speech/censorship, the role of administrators, vote stacking issues,
the role of WikiProjects, the role of Jimbo and the Board, the role of
userpages, organization of Wikipedians along POV lines, and so forth.
The good news is that resolving it fully should resolve a lot of
different issues.  The bad news, of course, is that the presence of
all these issues makes it much harder to resolve with minimal
bloodshed on all sides.

Kirill Lokshin


body:
2006/3/4, Milos Rancic <millosh at mutualaid.org>:
> 2) General translation: After that, we need translation/transcription
> of the names of the countries, cities, languages etc.

How can I pass the names to you? We have some ready lists by now:
* Larger islands:
http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%8A%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%85
* Countries:
http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%C3%A6%D1%81%D1%82%C3%A6%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%85%D1%8B%D0%B3%D1%8A%D0%B4
* Languages that use(d) Cyrillic script:
http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%C3%A6%D0%B9_%D1%84%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%B3%C3%A6_%C3%A6%D0%B2%D0%B7%C3%A6%D0%B3%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%85%D1%8B%D0%B3%D1%8A%D0%B4
* Lists of some countries' towns:
http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8:%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%85%D1%8B%D0%B3%D1%8A%D0%B4%D1%82%C3%A6

The lists are more or less official, based on existing dictionaries
and localisation rules.

Slavik IVANOV

--
Esperu cxiam!


from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
On 3/9/06, SJ <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with Ec entirely.  Image deletion is broken precisely because
> it cannot be undone; please do not use it when deletion can be
> avoided.
>
> It is also the duty of text uploaders to describe the text's source,
> and justify its applicability to the article; nevertheless, we engage
> in discussion with editors rather than deleting insufficiently sourced
> work.  This mainly works because you can remove text from a page
> without deleting it from the edit history.
>
> Consider creating a quarantine for images that appear to be improperly
> tagged, or improperly used; removing images to that quarantine, and
> leaving them there for a reasonable length of time (a month?) before
> deleting them.  If anyone tries to remove a quarantined image, they
> must give an explanation or proper tag.

This is misleading and outright untrue in the case of older content. I
maintain a temporary archive of media I tag for deletion, some other
users do as well.. it's fairly easy to make your tagging bot go grab
the actual image.  In the case of older content, it would have made
its way into one or more image dumps (which are available for a
limited time on download.wikimedia.org, and which I and several others
maintain copies of forever).

It is true that undeletion is a little less convenient for images, but
it is untrue that it is irreversible.  It is also true that we've had
images tagged with things like "non commercial use only" and included
in featured articles for over a year.... some of these with tags
saying they would be deleted right away... and they remain completely
ignored until someone deletes them.

Generally images split into two groups, the most common case are
images no one cares about.. they are often already orphaned.. Tag
them, delete them, whatever... no one cares. Long deletion death-row
spans for these do not cause harm, but they also do no good. The other
class is images that are favored.. they are used in high visibility
places like featured articles.. There are editors who like them
because they improve these articles and some of the editors don't give
a hoot about free content. In these cases, a long death-row span can
do some good: someone might provide a source, but usually they don't..
in the more common case, a long wait is harmful.  The people working
on cleaning up our copyright status must be diligent to prevent the
warning tags from simply being removed and the article being
reinserted by people who don't care about copyright, they just want a
pretty picture.

When it comes down to it, an image was either sourced from someplace
else or created by a Wikipedian.

If really was made by a Wikipedia, but have no reason to know that
(uncommented upload) then we have the same problem as an image that
came from a commercial source (after all, the creator could later come
after one of our users.. and they user would have nothing to say
except "I'll settle").  If the user is still on Wikipedia then a week
is long enough to get them to confirm the source, if they are not then
it is unlikely that they ever will.

For images that have come from an outside source, if we obtained the
image once, we can usually obtain it again, and it is generally easier
to find a completely *new* image then to track down the
source/copyright info for an existing image which was uploaded without
any information.  When I have found source information for untagged
images, it's often been by doing a google image search on the subject
and scanning through the results, so it actually takes less time to
delete an image and replace it, then to find source information for an
existing image.

For what it's worth, in the over 20,000 media objects I've caused the
deletion of, I've only had to restore one, and I've restored 4 others
for other people.  Thats it.


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images

body:
On 3/9/06, Robert Scott Horning <robert_horning at netzero.net> wrote:
> Keep in mind that many of the oldest images were uploaded before
> explicit licensing was required, and a general assumption that the
> content was uploaded with licensing under the GFDL.  That assumption has
> since been proven to be inaccurate in many cases, and a reason why this
> is no longer taken at face value.  Still, going after older unlicensed
> images is hardly a good policy, especially when the uploader didn't know
> they were supposed to provide licensing information.  For new images and
> recent uploads, yeah, you need to meet the licensing requirements.  And
> copyright enforcement is done on most images that are recent uploads.

Most images on EN have some kind of license attached... but it's often wrong.
It's very depressing to go through and correct the tagging because of
two factors:

1) A lot of them (45,846 on enwiki at the moment) are fully orphaned,
it feels like such a pointless  activity to retag these.
2) Sometimes other users treat you like crap because you've found out
that their favorite picture is a copyvio or otherwise unacceptable for
inclusion on our site.

Worse, perhaps, is that fact that images which fall under (1)
sometimes even caues you problems under (2).   :(


subject: [Foundation-l] Fair use images


from_name: Jonathan

subject: [WikiEN-l] Download history tool?

body:
I started to fix the script:
http://dzonux.net/wikipedia-animate-hack.user.js

It shows the basic layout, but it stops right before it animates.

Steve, are there are any other features you would like?

Jonathan

Nathaniel Sheetz wrote:

>I can't find anything.  I haven't reinstalled it since my recent hard drive
>crash, and my attempts to reinstall it now haven't worked.  I'm no expert on
>these things, so I don't understand the problem either.  Perhaps the scripts
>haven't been updated for the new version of Greasemonkey; I'm not sure.
>Sorry about that.
>
>Nathaniel
>
>On 3/9/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>  Is there any doc on that? I installed greasemonkey and the
>>wikipedia-animate tool, but I don't see anything special. In
>>particular, even on a WP history page, the menu item "User script
>>commands" is greyed out.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>


from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/9/06, Mark Gallagher <m.g.gallagher at student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
Nonsense.  We have three labels here:
> a) Templates
> b) Things in template space
> c) Things in user space
>
> A template is a template is a template.  If someone creates a template
> in userspace, they can't say it's not a template simply because it's not
> in the template namespace.  Likewise, it's theoretically possible to
> create something in template space that isn't a template, though I've
> not seen it done.

Quite so.  I shall be far more careful in future before applying my
(far too) dry British humour.

--
Sam


body:
> Question:
>         What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia?
> Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches,

Put simply, I don't. I have no real authority. However, I do know that
I have some sway, because different people have varying degrees of
respect for me in the matter of languages. There are certainly those
who don't trust me at all or who think I don't know much of anything
at all about languages, but I think most people believe that I know
quite a bit about languages but at the same time have problems with
other things about me so they take most of my opinions/advice under
advisement.

If some developer wants to create a Tetum WP immediately, I have no
say in that. However, I'm pretty sure that the Wikimedia community as
a whole will have much more enthusiasm for the creation of a Tetum
Wikipedia if its test-wiki is more vibrant and is in 100% Tetum.

> etc. on  wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of
> yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in
> various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.

>From what you say here, it seems to me that you're a relative
newcomer. Before the Moldovan controversy, there was almost never any
discussion about closing Wikis, given that the only 2 that have been
closed so far are Toki Pona and Klingon.

I'm not sure what's wrong, though, with the fact that almost all of my
posts are about languages -- is that a bad thing? Certainly, if you
look at other posters, many of them tend to have areas of particular
interest as well.

>         My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the
> arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?

Who said I do consider it my job? Besides you, that is.

Mark


from_name: Heinz

subject:
[Wikitech-l] extending SpecialListUsers.php / listing
	email-adresses for sysops

body:
I would like to extend SpecialListUsers.php.

(Only) SysOps shall also see the emailadresses of users.

Ideas or ready solutions are welcome.

thx. Heinz

http://en.giswiki.de


from_name: Jimmy Wales

body:
Patrick, Brad wrote:
> Our projects are forums.  Always and forever.  Remember that please!!

Yes.

And to answer Gerard's philosophical quesstion, if in the extremely
unlikely case that Florida and/or the United States became a hostile
jurisdiction for the freedom of speech, we would explore our legal
alternatives to leave for another jurisdiction.  Of course.

However, a couple of points...

1. This proposed law was so stupid that even the author of it quickly
backed down, as I understand news reports.  It will go nowhere.

2. It was almost certainly unconstitutional under the First Amendment
anyway.  "Under our Constitution, anonymous pamphleteering is not a
pernicious, fraudulent practice, but an honorable tradition of advocacy
and of dissent. Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority."
(US Supreme Court ruling from 1995)

Wikipedia would, indeed, make a marvelous example of the value of
anonymous speech.

--Jimbo


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] phase3/includes Linker.php, 1.73,
 1.74 Parser.php, 1.596, 1.597

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> Lupin wrote:
>> Log Message:
>> (bug 4855) Section edit links now have the section name in the title attribute
>
> Neat! A couple notes:
>
> First, since this changes the HTML output of section headings this has broken
> several of the parser test cases. When changing parser behavior it's a really
> good idea to run the parser tests before and after.

Lupin, are you going to fix these parser test cases you broke?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
On 08/03/06, Ilmari Karonen <nospam at vyznev.net> wrote:

> Perhaps we should add a "CopyrightedFreeUseWithAttribution" tag to cover
> the most common legitimate case, and then go through the rest with a
> fine comb?  Not sure what such a tag would gain over CC-BY, though,
> except that some people may simple be categorically opposed to CC.

You'd need both, regardless. Whilst it may have a functional
equivalence to a CC-BY license, it'd be very, very legally dubious to
claim that this meant it got released under the CC-BY license!

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


body:
On 08/03/06, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:

> There is also a problem with pre-1923 things marked "PD-US" that are not
> necessarily PD worldwide.

Most PD-Art tagging, as well, relies on a relatively unusual provision
of US copyright law (indeed, a provision made by a court case) which
isn't a direct match for foreign legislation. Hum.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: admin Yellowikis

subject: [Wikitech-l] MySQL5 uprade

body:
The upgraded to MySQL 5.0 has caused some problems. When we save an
article we get this error - though the changes do get saved:

===
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in
the software. The last attempted database query was:

    REPLACE INTO `yw_searchindex` (si_page,si_title,si_text) VALUES
('5329','fish',' fish and fishing ')

from within function "SearchMySQL4::update". MySQL returned error
"1062: Duplicate entry ' ' for key 3 (brane-int)".
===

Previously we had a corruped table:
===
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in
the software. The last attempted database query was:
(SQL query hidden)
from within function "SearchMySQL4::update". MySQL returned error
"145: Table './payo/yw_searchindex' is marked as crashed and should be
repaired (brane-int)".
===
which was repaired and hasn't given any further problems.

We've also run myisamchk against all the tables in the database.

A couple of Wikimedias running 1.4.x are working without any problems
on the upgraded system.

Any suggestions?

Paul

On 2/27/06, admin Yellowikis <yellowikis at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> We are running:
>     *  MediaWiki: 1.5.5
>     * PHP: 4.4.2-0.dotdeb.1 (apache)
>     * MySQL: 4.1.11-Debian_4sarge2-log
>
> Planning to upgrade to MySQL 5.0.
>
> Any issues/problems that we should be aware of?
>
> (yes, we plan to do a full back up first)
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Yellowikis is to Yellow Pages, as Wikipedia is to The Encyclopedia Britannica
>

--
Yellowikis is to Yellow Pages, as Wikipedia is to The Encyclopedia Britannica


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Did anyone else get something like this?

body:
Obviously it's not from Jimbo, but I wonder who's behind this...

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: A Compassionate, Yet Ferocious, Christian Rebuke from Jimbo Wales
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:34:06 -0500
From: jwales at wikia.com
To: alphasigmax at gmail.com

Dear Alphax,

Jimbo Wales has been to the fabulous website "Betty Bowers is a Better
Christian Than You."  In perusing the joyous insight and delicate turn
of phrase of America's Best Christian, Mrs. Betty Bowers, Jimbo Wales
has come to the sad realization that, while no one could ever be as good
a Christian as Mrs. Bowers, Jimbo Wales is verily Jesus on the cross
compared to you, dear.

With this in mind, Jimbo Wales asked Mrs. Bowers and her True Christian
friends at Landover Baptist Church to review your chances of salvation
and send you this godly rebuke - not with any genuine hope of saving you
(any more than all those prolonged "sessions in recovery" made a dent in
your outrageous neediness), but simply to remind you that Jimbo Wales is
just a little bit better than you.  For what is the point of being
saved, if you can't remind others that they are not?

Print out the following "purse-size" rebuking memorandum and read it
loudly in a very public place (for it is only in inciting the scorn of
strangers that you will gain insight into the opinion of friends).

MEMORANDUM

From:  The Landover Baptist Salvation Evaluation Committee (Subcommittee
for the Irretrievably Lost, Whether Catholics, Mormons, Muslims or
Unrepentant Serial Killers)

To:  Alphax

Re:  Your Salvation

As the vessel of the Lord's perfect message of boundless wrath and
annoyance with His imperfect creations, the matter of your wistful hopes
of salvation was brought before the full board of the Landover Baptist
Salvation Evaluation Committee on this very day.

After a suitable time for contemplation, no matter how seemingly brief,
it was determined by unanimous consent of all True Christians present
the following findings of fact:

1.	You are a thoroughly annoying person;

2.	Your presence in God's Glory would make it extremely difficult for
"Heaven" to live up to its name; and

3.	Therefore, you have been damned to an everlasting Hell, to have your
flesh gnawed at by voracious hoofed demons.

The Lord has specifically asked us to remind you that your consignment
to perpetual torture at the hands of deranged beasts of His making
should in no manner be construed as any indication that the Lord has, by
either design or omission, discontinued His unconditional love of you.
And, further, you are not to construe our relief in the knowledge that
we shall not be sharing God's Glory with someone as appallingly wretched
as you (or the look of sublime delight that flashes across our otherwise
inscrutable faces when we contemplate the agony of your much deserved
destiny) as diminishing our love for you as True Christians.

Wishing you a speedy descent,

Mrs. Betty Bowers, Chairlady & America's Best Christian

You may rebuke someone less pious than you (if, of course, you are able
to locate such a rare specimen) by going to the following URL:
http://www.bettybowers.com/cgi-bin/ebuke.cgi

Here is a message from Jimbo Wales to you -
You are hereby banned from editing Wikipedia or any other projects of
the Wikimedia Foundation. This takes effect immediately.

-- Jimbo

Betty Bowers is a Better Christian Than You - http://www.bettybowers.com/

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Userbox of the Year

body:
On 3/9/06, Ben Lowe <ben.lowe at gmail.com> wrote:
> Funny, it appears the userbox war ended while no one was paying attention.
> As of yesterday, T1 became G10, which was then rolled into G3 as "no attack
> pages", defined as a page which disparages its subject.  "Divisive" and
> "inflammatory" and "polemical" appear to have gone the way of "VfD" and
> "Jimbo on Wheels!"  Given the "attack pages" def, {{burninhell}} appears to
> be one of the only userboxes left that *does* qualify for deletion.
>
> Ben

Sadly no. People are still going to object to the "this user is a
Roman catholic" userboxes

--
geni


from_name: Anthony DiPierro

body:
On 3/8/06, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> Mark Wagner wrote:
>
> >To get an idea as to what sort of image tagging is currently being used, I
> >did a survey of the license tags applied to the 2000 most recent images
> >uploaded (which represents about 24 hours and 20 minutes of uploading).  Of
> >those images, 134 were duplicate uploads or otherwise not accounted for,
> >leaving 1,866 images to check for tags.  The detailed results are at
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Carnildo/upload_stats
> >
> >For 1,866 images uploaded, 2,014 license tags were applied:
> >
> >745 images were tagged as some sort of "fair use".  The vast majority used
> >one of the boilerplate templates, with most of the images being tagged as
> >screenshots, covers, logos, and promotional images.  Only 26 generic "fair
> >use" tags were used, with most of them being "fair use in".
> >
> This is good news actually! Boilerplates can be handled en masse with
> tools as we improve our policy. It's the generic tags that require the
> one-by-one manual evaluation.
>
Boilerplates can only be handled en masse if the images are tagged
correctly.  From what I've seen, there are a whole lot of boilerplated
images which are not tagged correctly.

Anthony


body:
Matt Brown wrote:
> On 3/8/06, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
>
>>Not to spread too much FUD about an ongoing debate, but a flaw with the
>>"use commons for all free images" theory is that a number of commoners
>>consider that German "design rights" laws mean that nearly all pictures
>>of designed objects, such as toys or furniture, are not free, and that
>>as a consequence most interior shots are not free either. (Outdoors pics
>>are covered by the "Panoramafreiheit" exception.) There is also a
>>problem with pre-1923 things marked "PD-US" that are not necessarily PD
>>worldwide.
>
>
> Personally, I ignore the latter and freely upload pre-1923 US-sourced
> images to Commons on a regular basis and have had nobody question
> this.  Images for which the copyright was held by a corporation, not
> an individual, are likely to be free in most countries worldwide in
> any case (since then date of publication or creation is the deciding
> factor, not a death date).
>
> As to the former, IMO, there are two aspects:
>
> Firstly, that design rights laws are separate from copyright per se
> and are more like trademark law.  We do not exclude images based on
> trademark law alone, even though the appearance of a trademark in an
> image may render it unusable for certain commercial uses, e.g.
> advertising of other products.  Design rights laws I've seen, and I
> believe the German one is similar, are intended to prohibit other
> companies from producing 'knock-off' designs, not to prohibit
> photographs that happen to have such objects in them.  We should not
> let paranoia over other restrictive laws concern us too much.
>
> Are there actual German legal cases in which the appearance of objects
> over which design-rights laws apply appearing in a photograph have
> caused a lawsuit, let alone a successful one?
>
> (any pointers to where on Commons this was discussed, since I missed it?)
>

http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2006-March/000155.html

> Secondly, I do not think that one country's peculiar restrictive law
> should remove things from Commons; in theory, once one rounded up
> every country's odd laws, nothing could be left.
>

I agree. You'd have thought that the EU would have unified their
copyright laws by now...

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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