list: textbook-l

from_name: Kernigh

subject: [Textbook-l] Wikibooks - removal of games walkthrough books

body:
Erik Moeller <eloquence at ...> writes:

> Perhaps the project should be officially renamed to "WikiTextbooks" to
> avoid misunderstandings - or would that be overkill?
That name is occupied - http://wikitextbook.co.uk

> I agree that clear standards of what a "textbook" is are needed.
That would not help. The current scope of Wikibooks is already narrower then
textbooks in general. We sometimes have visitors to the site post wondering why
they cannot find public domain content such as Shakespeare.

Users who associate Wikibooks with textbooks expect to find classical fiction at
Wikibooks, like they find in United States high schools and universities.
However, you will not find that at Wikibooks - you would have to go to our
sister project Wikisource http://en.wikisource.org

The other major restriction is that material at Wikibooks must have a neutral
point of view.

> For projects which are deemed outside the scope, as an alternative to
> deletion, it might be a good idea to have "Votes for adoption" - books
> tagged in this form could continue to be developed for the time being,
> but people would be encouraged to find a different, free content wiki
> to host them. Once there is consensus about a new home, the Wikibooks
> version would be redirected there.
I will forward this idea to the [[Wikibooks:Staff lounge]] (the equivalent of
the Scriptorium or beer parlour).

> Just some ramblings from a non-Wikibooks editor,
Actually Jimmy Wales does not edit Wikibooks much (his user page does not even
mention his role as President), and the project seems to have poor communication
with the Wikimedia Foundation, meaning that the Foundation is unaware of
situations at Wikibooks (both en.wikibooks and the other language editions).

-- [[User:Kernigh]]
   http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Kernigh


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Essjay

subject: [Wikitech-l] how to find out: "double" users and administrators

body:
Petr Kadlec wrote:
>> But it seems that one could ask those trusted users if a certain
>> suspicion exists about misuse of multiple personalities.
>>
>
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser
>
> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
Only use RFCU if it is on en.wiki; otherwise, see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Request_for_CheckUser_information.

Essjay

--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
http://www.wikipedia.org/


list: wikien-l

from_name: Anthony DiPierro

subject: [WikiEN-l] CNN: Campaign manager resigns amid Wikipedia flap

body:
On 4/28/06, Pete Bartlett <pcb21 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: The Cunctator <cunctator at gmail.com>
> >It would still be lame if Jimbo ran the whois.
>
> I'd've thought it would be more like
> "Mr. Wales can you confirm for us that IP address XXX edited Wikipedia article YYY to say ZZZ"
>
> Jimbo clicks "history", clicks "diff" ... "Uh, yes."
>
> Standard journalistic practice to get an outside to confirm events.
> Normally it would be "a Wikipedia spokesperson confirmed..." but they get extra bonus gravitas
> in their article by having the real-life President of the Foundation do it.
>
> p.s. Should we be adding
>
> "* Enables you to make smears against your political opponents without getting caught"
>
> to [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?]]
> ?

Heh, maybe there should be a rule that anyone with CheckUser
privileges can't run for political office.

Anthony


list: foundation-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Bot flagging, stewards, & bureaucrats

body:
Jon Harald S?by wrote:
> You can't make sysops bots with this feature... Though I don't know if
> it's possible to make a bot sysop.
>
>
I was just getting ready to click "reply" and say this. If a steward
*cough* Jon *cough* will stand by to remove the flags, I'll be happy to
run a test of this on my test account on en.wiki. (That is, test whether
an account flagged as a bot can be granted a sysop flag.)

Essjay

--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
http://www.wikipedia.org/


list: wikimedia-l


body:
Jon Harald S?by wrote:
> Go ahead. I'll remove it if it works. =)
Just tested on en.wiki; you can assign a sysop flag to an account that
already has a bot flag, but you cannot assign a bot flag to an account
with a sysop flag. The account in question (User:EssjayTest, my testing
account) is now desysopped and deflagged. (Thanks Jon!)

Essjay

--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
http://www.wikipedia.org/


from_name: Elliott F. Cable

subject: [Wikitech-l] Having trouble submitting to this list

body:
On Apr 27, 2006, at 11:34 PM, Plyd wrote:

> seems to be related to your email client.
> You probably have a way to see the headers of your emails. There,
> if you can
> see where it has been... from or to the mailing list.
>
> You may have to check your filters too.
>
> To remove multiple copies of email, you should use clients like
> gmail, which
> does it pretty well.
>
> To be published immediatly on the ml, you should also use the
> registered
> email adress, the email adress that you use to receive the ml
> messages (it
> is probably already the case but...).
>
> Plyd
>
> On 4/27/06, Elliott F. Cable <ecable at avxw.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:46:53PM -0800, Elliott F. Cable wrote:
>>>> Also, first thing that came to mind for ME, was URLS - most URLs
>>>> have /something/like/this.ext in them - that would be tons of extra
>>>> code to make it not apply within URLs...
>>>
>>> Excellent point -- or, an excellent addendum to my point; however
>>> one
>>> wants to look at these things.  :-)
>>>
>>>> On a sidetopic, I'm having trouble submitting things to this list
>>>> unless I'm replying to something like this - I've tried to send at
>>>> least 15 notes to this list, and they won't go that I can tell,
>>>> unless people have completely ignored all of them so far...
>>>
>>> I do not recall having seen any threads from you; are you getting
>>> bounce messages?
>> Ok, I changed the subject of this, lets see if that works - no bounce
>> messages; and I always CC everything I send to myself, so I have 4
>> copies of every e-mail I send - draft, sent mail, on my server, and
>> sent back to me - and i got he 4th back, so I know it was sent to the
>> mailing list server. No bounce messages, nothing - just doesn't
>> work... And they never show up in the mailing list folder that all my
>> mediawiki-l and wikitech-l messages are moved to automagically...

Yes, Brion already helped me with my first problem, I was submitting
from ecable at avxw.com while having signed up under
ecable at avxworkshop.com, so I fixed that; but I still can't submit new
mail to the list... ~~/


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] SoC: Upload form improvements

body:
Patrick Aljord wrote:
> Hey all,
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#Upload_form_improvements
> I would like to submit an application for that but it seems like it
> requieres some javascript and AJAX and it looks like wikimedia devs are
> against AJAX as it stated on top of the page (see "Hi folks, please don't
> add "AJAX" etc" on top). So my question is, is this improvement approved by
> the wikimedia dev ?

"Add a bunch of AJAX stuff" is not a suitable project. :)

A well-designed upload system, which incorporates some AJAX-y bits as an aid to
getting its job done, is a suitable project.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Aerik Sylvan

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Mirror(s) to prevent downtime and lessen load on main
	servers?

body:
Before I go find the foundation mailing list and ask them, has there been
any discussion of a wikipedia owned mirror to lessen the load on the main
servers and keep the content accessible in case of an outage?  I'm imagining
that this could be accomplished by the the mirror independantly refreshing
from the recent changes page RSS feed - although I guess it would be more
efficient for it to pull the updates directly from the database.  Anyway,
the beauty of an official mirror is that searches could be randomly directed
to it (or one of several official mirrors) and the "edit" links from the
mirror(s) point back to the "live" site.  This is such an obvious idea that
I'd guess it's already been proposed and discussed, but I did a little
searching and didn't find anything, so I thought I'd ask.

Aerik


from_name: Plyd

body:
seems to be related to your email client.
You probably have a way to see the headers of your emails. There, if you can
see where it has been... from or to the mailing list.

You may have to check your filters too.

To remove multiple copies of email, you should use clients like gmail, which
does it pretty well.

To be published immediatly on the ml, you should also use the registered
email adress, the email adress that you use to receive the ml messages (it
is probably already the case but...).

Plyd

On 4/27/06, Elliott F. Cable <ecable at avxw.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:46:53PM -0800, Elliott F. Cable wrote:
> >> Also, first thing that came to mind for ME, was URLS - most URLs
> >> have /something/like/this.ext in them - that would be tons of extra
> >> code to make it not apply within URLs...
> >
> > Excellent point -- or, an excellent addendum to my point; however one
> > wants to look at these things.  :-)
> >
> >> On a sidetopic, I'm having trouble submitting things to this list
> >> unless I'm replying to something like this - I've tried to send at
> >> least 15 notes to this list, and they won't go that I can tell,
> >> unless people have completely ignored all of them so far...
> >
> > I do not recall having seen any threads from you; are you getting
> > bounce messages?
> Ok, I changed the subject of this, lets see if that works - no bounce
> messages; and I always CC everything I send to myself, so I have 4
> copies of every e-mail I send - draft, sent mail, on my server, and
> sent back to me - and i got he 4th back, so I know it was sent to the
> mailing list server. No bounce messages, nothing - just doesn't
> work... And they never show up in the mailing list folder that all my
> mediawiki-l and wikitech-l messages are moved to automagically...
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
The Cunctator wrote:

>On 4/27/06, The Cunctator <cunctator at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On 4/27/06, Michael Lindeen <wikikitty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes. And as we get larger and more prominent, this will become more
>>>common, not less. Mike
>>>
>>>On 4/27/06, Pete Bartlett <pcb21 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The campaign manager of a candidate in the Georgia (*)
>>>>gubernatorial election has resigned after someone in his
>>>>office changed the bio of her opponent.
>>>>
>>>>Full story at:
>>>>http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/26/cox.wikipedia/
>>>>
>>>>Another reminder to us and our fellow editors of the huge
>>>>responsibilty we all bear these days to edit well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>I'm assuming that the reporter got this wrong: "The resignation came after
>>Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales confirmed that the addition to the biography
>>came from an IP address affiliated with the Cox campaign."
>>
>>Because if that's true, it's kind of a lame move.
>>
>>
>p.s. Funny that someone is forced to resign for adding true information....
>
Nothing funny about it.  There is more to ethics than whether a
statement is true or false.  The "truth" was about the candidate's son
rather than the candidate himself.  Unless the family member had a
direct involvement in the campaign it is unethical to go into detail
abut that family member's wrongdoings.

Having the information there may or may not be within Wikipedia's rules,
and we can only act within those rules.  But we were not the ones who
forced him to resign, the candidate employer was, and IMHO the candidate
acted correctly.

Ec


from_name: Chad Perrin

body:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:23:13PM +0200, Patrick Aljord wrote:
> Hey all,
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#Upload_form_improvements
> I would like to submit an application for that but it seems like it
> requieres some javascript and AJAX and it looks like wikimedia devs are
> against AJAX as it stated on top of the page (see "Hi folks, please don't
> add "AJAX" etc" on top). So my question is, is this improvement approved by
> the wikimedia dev ?

As Brion Vibber and Christopher Budnick pointed out, each in his own
way, I think the concern here is that you're adding needed functionality
in a manner that makes good sense -- and that you're not throwing AJAX
at it just because AJAX is buzzword-compliant.  I, for one, am perfectly
happy with unadorned static (X)HTML when it solves the problem quickly,
easily, and fully.  It runs faster and imposes less server load, too.
Where AJAX provides actual measurable benefits, though, it's certainly
an option to explore without prejudice.

That's probably pretty much the same attitude others have when they say
"please don't add AJAX".

--
Chad Perrin [ CCD CopyWrite | http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
"The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your
hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do." - McCloctnick the Lucid


from_name: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

subject: [Wikitech-l] Define and Formalize wiki markup

body:
I think all of you are missing a pretty big point here, once you have
a proper parser it doesn't matter what wikisyntax looks like by
default. You could make it spit out content from its internal parse
tree in many formats (DocBook, XHTML, POD, plaintext, LaTeX) and you
could, if you were willing to accept losing some formatting changes
(although that need not be the case) allow users to write text in any
of these formats, then parse it and save some sort of glorified parse
tree in the db.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Indefinite block and desysopping by User:Danny

body:
The Cunctator wrote:

>On 4/27/06, Sean Barrett <sean at epoptic.org> wrote:
>
>
>>The Cunctator stated for the record:
>>
>>
>>>Silly, you didn't read the Ultraviolet memo that states that sometimes Danny
>>>
>>>
>>>makes WP:OFFICE actions under double-super-secret background, which are
>>>tagged only by the Ultraviolet WP:OFFICE tag. If you do not have Ultraviolet
>>>
>>>
>>>clearance, any reversions or contestations of Ultraviolet
>>>Double-Super-Secret Background actions will be grounds for immediate
>>>termination. Of course, if you do not have Ultraviolet clearance, you cannot
>>>
>>>
>>>see the Ultraviolet WP:OFFICE tag.
>>>
>>>Finally, only those with Ultraviolet clearance are allowed knowledge of the
>>>
>>>
>>>Ultraviolet authorization level. So far as you are concerned Ultraviolet
>>>clearance does not exist, the above statements notwithstanding.
>>>
>>>--The Management
>>>
>>>
>>/me reports for duty as reactor shielding.
>>
>>That's one reference! For full points, do you note the other two?
>>
Reactor shielding is ineffective against extrasensory perception or
Superman's x-ray vision. ;-)

Ec


from_name: Anthere

body:
Hello

A tiny point I'd like to raise is the suitability of bots with sysop
status. I know it is being done in some places, but it seems generally
frowned upon.

Recently, a sysop bot on cs:wiki started to blocked ip which appeared
(how ?) to be anon proxies. 6000 blocks for now...

Good idea ? Bad idea ?

Anthere

.Aphaia wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> On 4/26/06, Essjay <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:> Developer Rob Church
> has enabled the [[Special:Makebot]] feature for
>
>>Wikimedia wikis; this feature allows local bureaucrats to flag and
>>deflag bot accounts on their projects.
>
>
> Now it seem to be activated on all projects. Perhaps some wikis may
> want to have their bot policies multiligualize.
>
> If you may want to ask a help for translation, consider to submit your
> request on [[Meta:Translation requests]]. There you find a section
> dedicated for "requests from local projects". Cymri (Welsh)Wikipedia
> has once used it for i18n of their welcoming messages and they seem to
> be happy with results of their requests.
>
> URLs are:
> Main Page:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_requests
>
> Submittion:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Translation_requests/fromlocalreqs
>
> Enjoy!
> --
> Aphaea@*.wikipedia.org
> email: Aphaia @ gmail (dot) com


from_name: Christopher Budnick

body:
Pat,

I believe that refers to the proposed AJAX project (which was removed
along with a WYSIWYG project that had a scope far too large).

Someone else can probably clarify if you'd be kicked into the Web 2.0
reject pile or not.

christopher

On 4/28/06, Patrick Aljord <patcito at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#Upload_form_improvements
> I would like to submit an application for that but it seems like it
> requieres some javascript and AJAX and it looks like wikimedia devs are
> against AJAX as it stated on top of the page (see "Hi folks, please don't
> add "AJAX" etc" on top). So my question is, is this improvement approved by
> the wikimedia dev ?
>
> thanx in advance
>
> Pat
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Jon Harald Søby

body:
You can't make sysops bots with this feature... Though I don't know if
it's possible to make a bot sysop.

On 4/28/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello
>
> A tiny point I'd like to raise is the suitability of bots with sysop
> status. I know it is being done in some places, but it seems generally
> frowned upon.
>
> Recently, a sysop bot on cs:wiki started to blocked ip which appeared
> (how ?) to be anon proxies. 6000 blocks for now...
>
> Good idea ? Bad idea ?
>
> Anthere
>
> .Aphaia wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > On 4/26/06, Essjay <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:> Developer Rob Church
> > has enabled the [[Special:Makebot]] feature for
> >
> >>Wikimedia wikis; this feature allows local bureaucrats to flag and
> >>deflag bot accounts on their projects.
> >
> >
> > Now it seem to be activated on all projects. Perhaps some wikis may
> > want to have their bot policies multiligualize.
> >
> > If you may want to ask a help for translation, consider to submit your
> > request on [[Meta:Translation requests]]. There you find a section
> > dedicated for "requests from local projects". Cymri (Welsh)Wikipedia
> > has once used it for i18n of their welcoming messages and they seem to
> > be happy with results of their requests.
> >
> > URLs are:
> > Main Page:
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_requests
> >
> > Submittion:
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Translation_requests/fromlocalreqs
> >
> > Enjoy!
> > --
> > Aphaea@*.wikipedia.org
> > email: Aphaia @ gmail (dot) com
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Best regards,
Jon Harald S?by

Website - http://www.alqualonde.com/
Wikipedia - http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruker:Jhs
MSN messenger - jhsoby at gmail.com


from_name: Rob

subject: [WikiEN-l] More legal threats from Brandt

body:
And here's Brandt demanding an administrator unprotect the article,
reinsert crap his sockpuppets keep putting in there, and protect the
article again in return for getting his name off of the hit list:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=941


from_name: Patrick Aljord

body:
Hey all,
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#Upload_form_improvements
I would like to submit an application for that but it seems like it
requieres some javascript and AJAX and it looks like wikimedia devs are
against AJAX as it stated on top of the page (see "Hi folks, please don't
add "AJAX" etc" on top). So my question is, is this improvement approved by
the wikimedia dev ?

thanx in advance

Pat


body:
Go ahead. I'll remove it if it works. =)

On 4/28/06, Essjay <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jon Harald S?by wrote:
> > You can't make sysops bots with this feature... Though I don't know if
> > it's possible to make a bot sysop.
> >
> >
> I was just getting ready to click "reply" and say this. If a steward
> *cough* Jon *cough* will stand by to remove the flags, I'll be happy to
> run a test of this on my test account on en.wiki. (That is, test whether
> an account flagged as a bot can be granted a sysop flag.)
>
> Essjay
>
> --
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> http://www.wikipedia.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Best regards,
Jon Harald S?by

Website - http://www.alqualonde.com/
Wikipedia - http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruker:Jhs
MSN messenger - jhsoby at gmail.com


from_name: Guillaume Paumier

body:
Thanks Jon and Essjay for performing the test, it's good to know, *just in
case* :)

g.

On 4/28/06, Essjay <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jon Harald S?by wrote:
> > Go ahead. I'll remove it if it works. =)
> Just tested on en.wiki; you can assign a sysop flag to an account that
> already has a bot flag, but you cannot assign a bot flag to an account
> with a sysop flag. The account in question (User:EssjayTest, my testing
> account) is now desysopped and deflagged. (Thanks Jon!)
>
> Essjay
>
> --
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> http://www.wikipedia.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Guillom
"Je sers la science et c'est ma joie" - Basile le Disciple
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guillom


from_name: Russell Blackford

body:
Um, wouldn't a dispassionate explanation of the facts be better if you want
help from the Powers That Be (of whom I am not one)?

Russell a.k.a. Metamagician3000

----- Original Message -----
From: <TGGG85 at aol.com>
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Blocked by Alkivar without Justification

> Someone unblocked me without an explanation. I assume that you are aware
> of
> the various complaints about "Mr. Alkivar." Since he was IMPOSSIBLE to
> contact
> by E-Mail when I was blocked without an adequate explanation by him, what
> am
> I  to think?
>
> Is it possible that NONE of the administrators have "sock-puppets?" You
> can
> be sure that some of them masquerade as vandals and then "rescue" articles
> just  to "enhance" their standing in the Wikipedia Community. This is OLD
> news at
> this  point. isn't it?
>
> All of this nonsense alienates talented and expert writers. Of course, you
> already realize that, don't you? I am going to continue with my Internet
> publishing work where it is appreciated.Wikipedia is getting to be a
> tiresome
> place for innovation which rubs some administrators the wrong way. ENOUGH
> ALREADY!


from_name: c2odessa at 2odessa.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] Overwrite images without the warning screen

body:
QUESTION #1

Does anyone know how to modify speicialupload.php file so that I can
upload images and overwrite images without this warning screen:

A file with this name exists already, please check Image:example.jpg if
you are not sure if you want to change it.

I want to disable the warning screen altogether.

QUESTION #2

I know about the "ignore all warnings" check box (which I do not have on
my 1.5 version of wiki), is there anyway to permantently have this
checked....I will upload to 1.6x if this is necessary to disable this
screen.

Is the "ignore all warnings" check box found on mediawiki 1.5x? or only 1.6x?

Thank you in advance.

I was suggested to go here from the IRC mediawiki group.

-----
My site: http://www.2odessa.com


body:
Got an answer:

I got an answer to solve this, from Duesentrieb :

Go to includes/SpecialUpload.php , search for the following line:

if( $nt->getArticleID() ) {

replace it by this:

if( false ) {

You will now never notice when you are overwriting an existing file.

> QUESTION #1
>
> Does anyone know how to modify speicialupload.php file so that I can
> upload images and overwrite images without this warning screen:
>
>
> A file with this name exists already, please check Image:example.jpg if
> you are not sure if you want to change it.
>
>
> I want to disable the warning screen altogether.
>
>
> QUESTION #2
>
> I know about the "ignore all warnings" check box (which I do not have on
> my 1.5 version of wiki), is there anyway to permantently have this
> checked....I will upload to 1.6x if this is necessary to disable this
> screen.
>
> Is the "ignore all warnings" check box found on mediawiki 1.5x? or only
> 1.6x?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> I was suggested to go here from the IRC mediawiki group.
>
>
> -----
> My site: http://www.2odessa.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Alex Schenck

subject: [WikiEN-l] Please participate in my survey

body:
Hi everyone,

As you may or may not know, Wikimania 2006 is less than 100 days away. There
is a strong possibility that I will be giving a presentation at the
conference regarding Wikipedia's continuing success. As part of my
presentation, I would love to include input from other Wikipedians regarding
the project.

You may find the survey at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Linuxbeak/Wikimania_2006/Wikipedian_Survey.
Your responses are greatly appreciated.

--Alex


from_name: Jakob Voss

subject: [Wikitech-l] odd behaviour of {fullurl:...}

body:
William Allen Simpson asked:

> Sorry, my query wasn't sufficiently explicit.
>
> What are the technical reasons for the syntax "{{fullurl:"?
>
> What are the technical reasons for the syntax "{{#if:"?

There are no technical but historical reasons.

> My underlying question: are these planned differences or arbitrary?

Wikisyntax is not planned. It evolves and mutates. Some people say that
there is a cabala to make the languages consist of brackets and pipes
only in the end. I don't think so because I don't think that there will
be an end (maybe praying to RFC, W3C, ISO or the God of Wiki helps?).

> And this may be related to my lack of understanding of the difference
> between "magic words" and "parser extensions"....
>
> Could somebody please explain?

In a perfect world you first design a language, test it and specify it
so you can create a parser and applications that understand the
language. We don't live in this world.

Greetings,
Jakob

P.S: How about an obscure Wikisyntax writing contest at Wikimania?

P.P.S: If you interested in a wiki markup standard then you should join
this list:
http://www.wikisym.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wiki-standards


from_name: Aphaia

body:
Hello all,

On 4/26/06, Essjay <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:> Developer Rob Church
has enabled the [[Special:Makebot]] feature for
> Wikimedia wikis; this feature allows local bureaucrats to flag and
> deflag bot accounts on their projects.

Now it seem to be activated on all projects. Perhaps some wikis may
want to have their bot policies multiligualize.

If you may want to ask a help for translation, consider to submit your
request on [[Meta:Translation requests]]. There you find a section
dedicated for "requests from local projects". Cymri (Welsh)Wikipedia
has once used it for i18n of their welcoming messages and they seem to
be happy with results of their requests.

URLs are:
Main Page:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_requests

Submittion:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Translation_requests/fromlocalreqs

Enjoy!
--
Aphaea@*.wikipedia.org
email: Aphaia @ gmail (dot) com


from_name: Ricky Reno

subject: [WikiEN-l] Alkivar's block and hide

body:
There has been no explanation as to how this alleged consensus has taken
place. It?s because there is no actual consensus on this. The only consensus
that exists is merely between the people on one side of the dispute. .
Alkivar has certainly misused his power on this occasion. It is very
irresponsible that Alkivar would resort to blocking someone for a month
without even bothering to discuss it with the individual. Does anyone know
Alkivar?s email address so that I may reason with him?

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


body:
Essjay wrote:
> Jon Harald S?by wrote:
>
>>Go ahead. I'll remove it if it works. =)
>
> Just tested on en.wiki; you can assign a sysop flag to an account that
> already has a bot flag, but you cannot assign a bot flag to an account
> with a sysop flag. The account in question (User:EssjayTest, my testing
> account) is now desysopped and deflagged. (Thanks Jon!)
>
> Essjay
>

...

That does not really answer my question...

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#Desysopping_of_cs:Wikipedista:Egg

Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
His activity is to block ips :
http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=

Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?

Ant


from_name: Brian Anderton

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikinews IOTM

body:
This months Wikinews Interview (IOTM) with: Ethan Zuckermant; will be
taking place in a few hours (at 1900 UTC, 28th April) in the
International Wikinews IRC channel
(irc://irc.freenode.net/wikinews).

Ethan Zuckerman is the founder of Global Voices Online and serves as a
fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society. Zuckerman
founded Geekcorps, a non-profit organization that sends people with
technical skills to developing countries to assist in computer
infrastructure development, too.

Research and developing questions is at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/Interview_of_the_month/April_2006_Questions

Brian


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikinews IOTM


body:
A bot with a sysop status may be temporarily useful if a huge number of
pages must be deleted, but this shouldn't happen very often. For example,
the new namespace Project: has just been opened on Fr Wikipedia, and all
wikiprojects have been moved from Wikipedia:Project/X to Project:X.
Thousands of redirects have thus been created. Redirects concerning project
subpages are being deleted. This is a task a sysop bot could perform.

Blockin is a more delicate sysop tool, which imho requires a human being to
be in front of the screen.

However, a bot is damn stupid: he just does what he has been told to do. If
a bot is arbitrarily blocking IP or anonymous proxies, he has just been
badly programmed :)

g.

On 4/28/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Essjay wrote:
> > Jon Harald S?by wrote:
> >
> >>Go ahead. I'll remove it if it works. =)
> >
> > Just tested on en.wiki; you can assign a sysop flag to an account that
> > already has a bot flag, but you cannot assign a bot flag to an account
> > with a sysop flag. The account in question (User:EssjayTest, my testing
> > account) is now desysopped and deflagged. (Thanks Jon!)
> >
> > Essjay
> >
>
>
> ...
>
> That does not really answer my question...
>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#Desysopping_of_cs:Wikipedista:Egg
>
> Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
> both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
> His activity is to block ips :
> http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci
> ?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
>
> Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?
>
> Ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Guillom
"Je sers la science et c'est ma joie" - Basile le Disciple
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guillom


from_name: Sam Korn

body:
On 4/28/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
> both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
> His activity is to block ips :
> http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
>
> Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?

Perhaps more pertinently, why does this bot need bot status?  I don't
believe being a bot hides your admin activites from the log or
elsewhere.  Apart from it being semantically correct, there is no
reason why this bot should be flagged as such.  Indeed, I can't
actually imagine any circumstance where a bot needs sysop privileges
to *edit*, which is the only area that botship (?) actually affects.

--
Sam


from_name: Andrew Dunbar

subject: [Wikitech-l] Monobook CSS question

body:
Please direct me to the appropriate place if this this question should
not be here.

I'm editing my User:XXX/monobook.CSS because any LI in my navigation bar with
multipe A's is displayed over several lines but I want them in one
line. I have tried
these to no avail:

p-navigation li a { display: inline !important; }
p-navigation a { display: inline !important; }

They do not work. I also cannot pinpoint in which CSS file these are set to
display: block

Apologies again if this is the wrong forum. I could not tell which was the right
forum from looking at the Wikipedia pages...

Andrew Dunbar (hippietrail)

--
http://linguaphile.sf.net


from_name: Neil Harris

body:
Sam Korn wrote:
> On 4/28/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
>> both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
>> His activity is to block ips :
>> http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
>>
>> Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?
>>
>
> Perhaps more pertinently, why does this bot need bot status?  I don't
> believe being a bot hides your admin activites from the log or
> elsewhere.  Apart from it being semantically correct, there is no
> reason why this bot should be flagged as such.  Indeed, I can't
> actually imagine any circumstance where a bot needs sysop privileges
> to *edit*, which is the only area that botship (?) actually affects.
>
> --
> Sam
>
>
Approved bots are exempt (I remember hearing once) from some edit
throttling measures aimed at discouraging the use of unauthorized bots.

Neil


from_name: Tietew

subject: [Wikitech-l] Hyper Estraier extension

body:
Hello,

I wrote a MediaWiki extension to search wikicontent using
Hyper Estraier, a full-text search engine.

Description has been posted at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Estraier_extension

About Hyper Estraier:
* Sourceforge: http://hyperestraier.sourceforge.net/
* OS Reviews: http://www.osreviews.net/reviews/misc/hyperestraier

And I set up a demo site uses this extension to search Japanese
Wikipedia content.
http://ja.wikipedia.tietew.jp/wiki/Special:Search

Look'n'feel is derived from LuceneSearch.php. Search results and
content summary are generated by Hyper Estraier search server.

== Background ==
Current wikipedia's lucene-search is tooo bad about searching
Japanese. I think Hyper Estraier is better for languages whose
sentence is not separated by space, such as Japanese and Chinese.

see also:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#I18n_search_index

## I have no idea which engine is better for europian languages.

== Request ==
I want to test and demo real-time index update from live
Wikipedia. Could you please give me a permittion to access
OAIRepository?

== Comparation ==

word: "???????" (Wikipedia)
Hyper Estraier: 490 hits
  http://ja.wikipedia.tietew.jp/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%9A%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
  http://ja.wikipedia.tietew.jp/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%9A%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2&fulltext=Search&offset=480&limit=20
Lucene: 397 hits ... but only 40 documents are shown
  http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%9A%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
  http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%9A%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&offset=20&limit=20

word: "????" (hyakka-jiten; encyclopedia)
Hyper Estraier: 352 hits
  http://ja.wikipedia.tietew.jp/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%B8&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
  http://ja.wikipedia.tietew.jp/w/index.php?title=%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search&search=%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%B8&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&offset=340&limit=20
Lucene: 171 hits ... but only 23 documents are shown
  http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search?search=%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%B8&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
  http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%89%B9%E5%88%A5:Search?search=%E7%99%BE%E7%A7%91%E4%BA%8B%E5%85%B8&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&offset=20&limit=20

Thank you.

--
[[User:Tietew]] <tietew at tietew.net>
Wiki: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tietew
PGP/GPG: 26CB 71BB B595 09C4 0153  81C4 773C 963A D51B 8CAA


subject: [Wikitech-l] Hyper Estraier extension

body:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:29:13 -0700
In article <4451E069.6000501 at pobox.com>
[Re: [Wikitech-l] Hyper Estraier extension]
Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:

> Tietew wrote:
> [snip]
> > Look'n'feel is derived from LuceneSearch.php.
>
> I'd recommend instead using the search plugin system built into 1.5 and later;
> see extensions/MWSearch for the Lucene interface for that. It might need a
> little more tweaking, but will be smoother to replace things with in future than
> the old hacked-up LuceneSearch.php.

I could not customize summary generation with MWSearch.
Hyper Estraier can generates good summary itself.

Class SearchEngine (or SpecialSearch?) should have summary
generator hook or overrides.

> Next week I'll be testing out Sphinx (http://sphinxsearch.com/) which is a GPL'd
> fulltext search engine, which at least according to its authors is faster than
> Lucene -- much faster at indexing! They don't however currently have appropriate
> tokenizing for CJK presently. We could see about adding that, but I'd certainly
> love to compare it to something else like Estraier if it's available.

Hyper Estraier uses N-gram method for CJK language.
Additionaly, it can use "MeCab" Morphological Analyzer
(dictionary-based Japanese tokenizer; http://mecab.sourceforge.jp/)
for keyword search.

Mr.Hirabayashi, the author of Hyper Estraier, says he supports
and cooperates with me, and Wikipedia.

Hyper Estraier has its own HTTP-based P2P protocol.
We can construct distributed search cluster very easily.

For example, my demo site is composed of two machine, an Apache
with MediaWiki on Linux, and Hyper Estraier search server (node
master) on Windows XP.

> > == Request ==
> > I want to test and demo real-time index update from live
> > Wikipedia. Could you please give me a permittion to access
> > OAIRepository?
>
> I'll set this up for you this weekend. Make sure you've got a fast connection
> and plenty of space. :)

Thank you!

--
[[User:Tietew]] <tietew at tietew.net>
Wiki: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tietew
PGP/GPG: 26CB 71BB B595 09C4 0153  81C4 773C 963A D51B 8CAA


from_name: Uwe Brauer

body:
>>>>> "Rotem" == Rotem Liss
>>>>> <mail at rotemliss.com> writes:

   Rotem>   2.
   Rotem>      What do you mean? You can ask the sysops to specify it in their
   Rotem>      user page, and there is the page Special:Listadmins. An
   Rotem>      administrator can configure his signature in talk pages to show
   Rotem>      "USERNAME (sysop)", of course, but not in the history pages.

Well I am asking this because some time ago somebody pointed out to me
don't use html structure like blockquote or lists in the discussion
list etc. Etc. And it turns out this person was an sysop, which makes
his comments more valid than in case it would have been a usual user.

Uwe Brauer


from_name: Jan Kulveit

body:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 05:27:02PM +0100, Sam Korn wrote:
> On 4/28/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
> > both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
> > His activity is to block ips :
> > http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
> >
> > Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?
>
> Perhaps more pertinently, why does this bot need bot status?  I don't
> believe being a bot hides your admin activites from the log or
> elsewhere.

>From experience with ProxyBot

With bot flag, the bot did not clutter RecentChanges. In Block
log etc. the activity was still visible.

The reason why ProxyBot was given both sysop and bot status
was exactly that - to avoid making RC changes cluttered with robotic
blocks.

>  Indeed, I can't
> actually imagine any circumstance where a bot needs sysop privileges
> to *edit*, which is the only area that botship (?) actually affects.

To delete huge ammount of pages.

Jan Kulveit - User:Wikimol


from_name: XaosFluX

subject: [WikiEN-l] blocked past block time

body:
Are we sure this isn't an autoblock, Thewoldstar can you paste in your block
screen?
xaosflux

----- Original Message -----
From: "Earthhope Action Network" <contact at earthhopenetwork.net>
To: <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] blocked past block time

> Can someone please look into this?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Thewolfstar.
>
> I was blocked by Drini and then unblocked by Drini.
> My block is supposed to be up, but for some reason I am still blocked.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Maggie thewolfstar
>
> --
> in peace and justice for the wildthings,
> Margie Laupheimer
>
> http://earthhopenetwork.net/
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Will "Sceptre" Noble

subject: [WikiEN-l] Alkivar's block and hide

body:
On 4/28/06, Ricky Reno <juice2122 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> There has been no explanation as to how this alleged consensus has taken
> place. It's because there is no actual consensus on this. The only
> consensus
> that exists is merely between the people on one side of the dispute. .
> Alkivar has certainly misused his power on this occasion. It is very
> irresponsible that Alkivar would resort to blocking someone for a month
> without even bothering to discuss it with the individual. Does anyone know
> Alkivar's email address so that I may reason with him?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
You were the only one editing the page to not include "King of Pop" and
"Wacko Jacko". You hadn't given a reason for removing the names. Referring
to "The Kingof Pop", the name has become (even to me as a Brit) synomonous
to Jackson. Just as Presley is The King (of Rock and Roll). You can't say
that Jackson's habits aren't exactly normal either. You made no attempt to
compromise, just wanting both names removed. Alkivar's block is justified,
you were disrupting Wikipedia.

--
-Sceptre
http://tintower.co.uk


subject: [WikiEN-l] Alkivar's block and hide

body:
On 4/28/06, Will Sceptre Noble <tintower at tintower.tk> wrote:
>
> On 4/28/06, Ricky Reno <juice2122 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There has been no explanation as to how this alleged consensus has taken
> place. It's because there is no actual consensus on this. The only
> consensus
> that exists is merely between the people on one side of the dispute. .
> Alkivar has certainly misused his power on this occasion. It is very
> irresponsible that Alkivar would resort to blocking someone for a month
> without even bothering to discuss it with the individual. Does anyone know
>
> Alkivar's email address so that I may reason with him?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
> You were the only one editing the page to not include "King of Pop" and
> "Wacko Jacko". You hadn't given a reason for removing the names. Referring
> to "The Kingof Pop", the name has become (even to me as a Brit) synomonous
> to Jackson. Just as Presley is The King (of Rock and Roll). You can't say
> that Jackson's habits aren't exactly normal either. You made no attempt to
> compromise, just wanting both names removed. Alkivar's block is justified,
> you were disrupting Wikipedia.
>
> --
> -Sceptre
> http://tintower.co.uk
>
>
Also, only four established users voted to remove names, one who's been
blocked eight times. I see consensus to keep there.

--
-Sceptre
http://tintower.co.uk


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Berto

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Interface upload, how-to

body:
Hi!

Just an information: can anyone point me to a source of information on how
to upload a translated interface for the pms wiki? I just got sysopped,
well, bureaucratized, actually, but cannot seem to understand where to look
for help files.

Thanks!
B?rto


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Wikitech-l] bn: fa: hi: time and date numbers formatting

body:
Hello,

I fixed bug #5679 [1] in trunk tonight [2] and synced live site [3].

For bn: fa: hi: languages, it means that most of the time the date
output on the site should now use the correct numerals instead of the
latin one (1,2,3,4 .. 0).

cheers,

[1] http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5679
[2] trunk revision 13908
[3]
https://wikitech.leuksman.com/index.php?title=Server_admin_log&diff=8316&oldid=8315

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


subject: [Foundation-l] Open proxy robotical blocking

body:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 04:38:57PM +0200, Anthere wrote:
...
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#Desysopping_of_cs:Wikipedista:Egg
>
> Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
> both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
> His activity is to block ips :
> http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
>
> Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?
>
> Ant
>

I think several aspects should be separated
-technical implementation & mediawiki issues (problems with cluttering of logs etc.)
-questions od accuracy of open proxy detection, if such blocks can be
automated
-should open proxies be blocked just because beeing open proxies?

I hope Egg (creator of Proxybot) will post something about the bot in
wikitech-l, in Requests_for_permissions also another solution was
proposed, to import the blacklist directly into db. I hope this
will be discussed in wikitech-l

What seems to me as relevant topic for Foundation-l are the policy questions

1. should open proxies be blocked?
some possible answers
a. yes
b. only after they are source of vandalism
c. no, they should be treated as normal ips
d. it should be left to local communities of language versions / projects to
decide

As we have a "WikiProject on open proxies"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:OP
and
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:NOP
no open proxies policy
the answer seems to be "yes", but see complains at
[[en:Wikipedia talk:No open proxies#Foundation Issue Violation]]

2. can such blocks be automated?
a. yes
b. yes, if the list was verified by hand by experienced users
c. yes, if the list was verified by trusted script run by trusted user
d. yes, if the list comes from reputable source (is meta: page a reputable
source?)
e. no, it should be checked by hand one by one
f. no
g. it should be left to local communities of language versions / projects to
decide

In my opinion trusted proxycheck script run by trusted user is
resonable. Scripts tend to err on side of caution (if I play with nmap
etc. I'm able to identify more proxies  simple script is).

My thought on the topic - if http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:NOP is
official Foundation policy, it would make sense to have Wikimedia-wide
ip blacklist, blocking proxies. One-by-one blocks by hand by admins of
individual projects are IMO waste of time. That isn't a problem on en:
with its overwhelming manpower, but for smaller project dealing with open
proxy abuse may be non-negligeable burden. One technically savvy vandal
can occupy several checkusers and admins for indefinite time period:
all he has to do is to download some public open proxy list, run his
own scan, and as soon as one proxy is blocked, switch to another.

If privacy policy is relatively strict and blocking policy relatively
liberal (warn several times, block only after several repeated
vandalisms, if vandalizing edits are mixed with good edits, talk more,
use RfC etc.) time impact on wiki users vs. vandal plays in favour
of vandal.

Jan Kulveit - User:Wikimol


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-04-29

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Running test Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test Magic Word: {{NUMBEROFFILES}}... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!

Passed 300 of 303 tests (99.01%) FAILED!


from_name: Timwi

body:
Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> I don't believe it's a fallacious arguemnt.  Let me cast it for you
> slightly differently:
>
>  Choices for inline text markup coding should be made so as to collide
>  with the least possible number of already extant uses of that set of
>  punctuation.

Okay, so let's use "@*$&#^@(&#^$(#@" for italics and "!(&@^$(&@^$#@&%"
for bold.  Since, obviously, they collide with pretty few extant uses.

Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] crear plantilla

body:
Chad Perrin wrote:
>
> That notion that he got up on the wrong side of the bed today arose
> because this is not the only thread in which he has apparently assumed
> bad faith from the beginning in response to others' commentary.

Hm, I can see how you get this impression. The kinds of postings where I
would be less critical tend to be replied to faster than I can, and I
would only be repeating what others have already said ;-)

Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] crear plantilla

body:
Elliott F. Cable wrote:
>
> the OP's question was answered

And it was *not* answered in English! :-)


subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki API (SoC)

body:
> I have to admit that this is a very good point, I think an API is
> something that can be difficult to change once it's written because by
> definition once it's out there other programs will rely on it staying
> the same. Getting it right the first time is better than trying to
> retain backwards compatibility with a badly designed sytem. Writing an
> API is a big responsibility, especially if it ever gets used with
> something as hugely significant as Wikipedia.

Well, I've been kind of thinking on the following lines: Each MediaWiki
wiki administrator - in the case of Wikipedia that would be Wikimedia -
can monitor what API calls are still regularly used. It's not really
something like HTML where you want backwards compatibility because you
don't know how many millions of unmaintained old documents still exist
and still want to be read. We do. We can tell if the usage level of an
old API function has dropped below a certain threshold, at which case we
can decide to stop supporting it. Although we will end up requiring some
tool developers to use the new API and some users of unmaintained tools
to use other tools, we can be sure that it won't be many. Hence I don't
think backwards compatibility is going to be a huge long-term
requirement for us.

Timwi


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Why does Article::getDB() use DB_MASTER?

body:
Jitse Niesen wrote:
> Why is DB_MASTER used instead of DB_SLAVE?

Lagged slaves were too unreliable; you would often see the previous version
after saving an edit.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
NSLE (Wikipedia) wrote:
> Done. Too bad there's zero chance of most non-Northeastern US Wikipedians
> making the conference.

It is a certainty that most Wikipedians will not make any conference anywhere at
any time.

This is the case of any conference or convention; each event will actually be
visited by only a small subset of the potential target audience. This will
include a higher proportion of people who are physically close to the event (for
whom travel is easier). For migratory events like Wikimania, this means each
event in the series will draw a demographically different population each time,
'stirring up the pot'.

I'm not sure why you think this is "too bad", can you explain?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Patrick Aljord

body:
On 4/28/06, Chad Perrin <perrin at apotheon.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:23:13PM +0200, Patrick Aljord wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2006#Upload_form_improvements
> > I would like to submit an application for that but it seems like it
> > requieres some javascript and AJAX and it looks like wikimedia devs are
> > against AJAX as it stated on top of the page (see "Hi folks, please don't
> > add "AJAX" etc" on top). So my question is, is this improvement approved by
> > the wikimedia dev ?
>
> As Brion Vibber and Christopher Budnick pointed out, each in his own
> way, I think the concern here is that you're adding needed functionality
> in a manner that makes good sense -- and that you're not throwing AJAX
> at it just because AJAX is buzzword-compliant.  I, for one, am perfectly
> happy with unadorned static (X)HTML when it solves the problem quickly,
> easily, and fully.  It runs faster and imposes less server load, too.
> Where AJAX provides actual measurable benefits, though, it's certainly
> an option to explore without prejudice.
>
> That's probably pretty much the same attitude others have when they say
> "please don't add AJAX".
>
so are you ok for a " upload progress"  and an "lazy loading"? those
one requires ajax. the gmail like functionnallity to add several files
at the same time is only a little javascript with no server load.


from_name: Erik Moeller

body:
On 4/29/06, Patrick Aljord <patcito at gmail.com> wrote:

> so are you ok for a " upload progress"  and an "lazy loading"? those
> one requires ajax. the gmail like functionnallity to add several files
> at the same time is only a little javascript with no server load.

Having these features is OK, I think, as long as they degrade
gracefully to older browsers (including text mode browsers which may
be used by blind people). The editing toolbar is an example of a
JavaScript feature in MediaWiki that is only user-visible if the
client supports it.

An AJAX-based category selector would be nice, especially if written
in such a general way that it can not only be used on the upload form,
but possibly also be called from the toolbar, opening in a little
pop-up and inserting categories into the edit window.

There's no prohibition against AJAX in MediaWiki or anything like
that. To the contrary,  there's actually a basic AJAX search
autocompletion feature in SVN Trunk, which can be activated by setting
$wgUseAjax=true in LocalSettings.php.

I'm the person who proposed the upload form remodeling task, if you
want, we can Skype about it and discuss in detail what could be done.

Erik


from_name: Dan Rosenthal

body:
how far away is it
-swatjester

On 4/28/06, NSLE (Wikipedia) <nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Done. Too bad there's zero chance of most non-Northeastern US Wikipedians
> making the conference.
>
> On 4/29/06, Alex Schenck <linuxbeak at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > As you may or may not know, Wikimania 2006 is less than 100 days away.
> > There
> > is a strong possibility that I will be giving a presentation at the
> > conference regarding Wikipedia's continuing success. As part of my
> > presentation, I would love to include input from other Wikipedians
> > regarding
> > the project.
> >
> > You may find the survey at
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Linuxbeak/Wikimania_2006/Wikipedian_Survey
> > .
> > Your responses are greatly appreciated.
> >
> > --Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Tels

subject: [Wikitech-l] Monobook CSS question

body:
Moin,

On Saturday 29 April 2006 00:45, Andrew Dunbar wrote:
> Please direct me to the appropriate place if this this question should
> not be here.
>
> I'm editing my User:XXX/monobook.CSS because any LI in my navigation
> bar with multipe A's is displayed over several lines but I want them in
> one line. I have tried
> these to no avail:
>
> p-navigation li a { display: inline !important; }
> p-navigation a { display: inline !important; }
>
> They do not work. I also cannot pinpoint in which CSS file these are
> set to display: block
>
> Apologies again if this is the wrong forum. I could not tell which was
> the right forum from looking at the Wikipedia pages...

Can't help you offhand with the right answer, but you might want to
install the "Web developer toolbar" extension for Firefox. This allows
you to view the CSS styles for each element, so you might be able to
track down which property comes from where :)

best wishes,

tels

--
 Signed on Sat Apr 29 03:11:05 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "Call me Justin, Justin Case."

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body:
Moin,

On Saturday 29 April 2006 01:17, Timwi wrote:
> Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > I don't believe it's a fallacious arguemnt.  Let me cast it for you
> > slightly differently:
> >
> >  Choices for inline text markup coding should be made so as to
> > collide with the least possible number of already extant uses of that
> > set of punctuation.
>
> Okay, so let's use "@*$&#^@(&#^$(#@" for italics and "!(&@^$(&@^$#@&%"

Heh, stop all that @*$&#^@(&#^$(#@ swearing!

Best wishes,

Tels

--
 Signed on Sat Apr 29 03:12:37 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "Retsina?" - "Ja, Papa?" - "Schach Matt." - "Is gut, Papa."

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subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki API (SoC)

references:
<444FC1D6.8020103@hippygeek.co.uk>
	<44510A1C.4060103@hippygeek.co.uk> <e2u97m$dqo$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Moin,

On Saturday 29 April 2006 01:41, Timwi wrote:
> > I have to admit that this is a very good point, I think an API is
> > something that can be difficult to change once it's written because
> > by definition once it's out there other programs will rely on it
> > staying the same. Getting it right the first time is better than
> > trying to retain backwards compatibility with a badly designed sytem.
> > Writing an API is a big responsibility, especially if it ever gets
> > used with something as hugely significant as Wikipedia.
>
> Well, I've been kind of thinking on the following lines: Each MediaWiki
> wiki administrator - in the case of Wikipedia that would be Wikimedia -
> can monitor what API calls are still regularly used. It's not really
> something like HTML where you want backwards compatibility because you
> don't know how many millions of unmaintained old documents still exist
> and still want to be read. We do. We can tell if the usage level of an
> old API function has dropped below a certain threshold, at which case
> we can decide to stop supporting it. Although we will end up requiring
> some tool developers to use the new API and some users of unmaintained
> tools to use other tools, we can be sure that it won't be many. Hence I
> don't think backwards compatibility is going to be a huge long-term
> requirement for us.

Other wikis will use the same code, thus the same API, and there will be
tools around that will work on these wikis on v1.x.y and break on v1.x.z.

So, IMHO backwards compatibility is of the uttermost importance, hence its
important to "get it right" the first time.

best wishes,

tels

--
 Signed on Sat Apr 29 03:13:53 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is a non-fatal terminal disease." - Dr.
 Alexander Fisher

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list: commons-l

from_name: Matt Brown

subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
On 4/29/06, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
> My own proposal for policy on this point was to go with the laws of
> the country of the original author.

Should the nationality of the author take precedence over the place of
first publication?

-Matt


subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
On 4/29/06, Matt Brown <morven at gmail.com> wrote:
> Should the nationality of the author take precedence over the place of
> first publication?

To add to my own post: considering the citizenship of the author gives
the problem of what happens when the multiple authors of a work have
different citizenship.  And what if the work was written in a nation
different from the author's citizenship?

First publication is certainly easier, unless there is a good reason why not.

As far as I remember, it's generally advised to only use the pre-1923
date for works first published within the United States. Possibly
treaty obligations (Berne Convention, among others) override national
law when it comes to works originating from outside.

-Matt


from_name: NSLE (Wikipedia)

body:
And for the record, I did unprotect the article (it was protected long
enough anyway), but didn't do anything else, and still got my name taken
off. Discussion could be a good way forward, even if past discussions have
failed. I think I can say I'm proof.

--NSLE

On 4/29/06, Rob <gamaliel8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And here's Brandt demanding an administrator unprotect the article,
> reinsert crap his sockpuppets keep putting in there, and protect the
> article again in return for getting his name off of the hit list:
>
> http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=941
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
Done. Too bad there's zero chance of most non-Northeastern US Wikipedians
making the conference.

On 4/29/06, Alex Schenck <linuxbeak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> As you may or may not know, Wikimania 2006 is less than 100 days away.
> There
> is a strong possibility that I will be giving a presentation at the
> conference regarding Wikipedia's continuing success. As part of my
> presentation, I would love to include input from other Wikipedians
> regarding
> the project.
>
> You may find the survey at
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Linuxbeak/Wikimania_2006/Wikipedian_Survey
> .
> Your responses are greatly appreciated.
>
> --Alex
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Interface upload, how-to

body:
2006/4/28, Berto <albertoserra at ukr.net>:

> Just an information: can anyone point me to a source of information on how
> to upload a translated interface for the pms wiki? I just got sysopped,
> well, bureaucratized, actually, but cannot seem to understand where to look
> for help files.

You can do that by changing the pages in the MediaWiki namespace. A
list of those pages, and their contents, can be found at
[[pms:Speciale:Allmessages]].

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels


from_name: Nick Boalch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Recognition for en.Wikipedia's cricket articles

body:
Hey all,

Some of the WikiProject Cricket editors have spotted that Cricinfo, the
largest cricket-related website and part of main cricket publisher the
Wisden group, has started using (and crediting) Wikipedia as a source on
its articles and player profiles:

* Thompson, J, 'When Test cricket came to India', 29th April 2006
  http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/245528.htm

* Williamson, M., 'A familiar tale of riots & betting', 15th April 2006
  http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/244384.html
  (sourced from our featured article [[Sydney Riot of 1879]])

* Player profile of Edmund Barton (first Prime Minister of Australia)
  http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/player/4432.html
  (credited and GFDL-marked copy of [[Edmund Barton]])

Obviously this is really pleasing for our cricket coverage; Cricinfo may
be 'only' a website but it's one that every cricket fan with an Internet
connection uses (not to mention one that we ourselves have raided
mercilessly for information as a source!), so this is a nice recognition
of the quality of Wikipedia's articles in this area.

Cheers,

N.

--
Nicholas Boalch
School of Modern Languages & Cultures       Tel: +44 (0) 191 334 3456
University of Durham                        Fax: +44 (0) 191 334 3421
New Elvet, Durham DH1 3JT, UK               WWW: http://nick.frejol.org/


from_name: Jitse Niesen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Monobook CSS question

body:
> I'm editing my User:XXX/monobook.CSS because any LI in my navigation bar with
> multipe A's is displayed over several lines but I want them in one
> line. I have tried
> these to no avail:
>
> p-navigation li a { display: inline !important; }
> p-navigation a { display: inline !important; }
>
> They do not work.

#p-navigation a { display: inline !important; }

works for me (note the first character, which says that "p-navigation"
is an id).

> I also cannot pinpoint in which CSS file these are set to
> display: block

On the English Wikipedia, it's in
http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/main.css

Jitse


from_name: Delirium

body:
NSLE (Wikipedia) wrote:
> Done. Too bad there's zero chance of most non-Northeastern US Wikipedians
> making the conference.
>

Even if we assume nobody not within a day's driving distance will come,
that still includes most of the population of Canada.

-Mark


from_name: geni

body:
On 4/29/06, Nick Boalch <n.g.boalch at durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Some of the WikiProject Cricket editors have spotted that Cricinfo, the
> largest cricket-related website and part of main cricket publisher the
> Wisden group, has started using (and crediting) Wikipedia as a source on
> its articles and player profiles:
>
> * Thompson, J, 'When Test cricket came to India', 29th April 2006
>   http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/245528.htm
>
> * Williamson, M., 'A familiar tale of riots & betting', 15th April 2006
>   http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/story/244384.html
>   (sourced from our featured article [[Sydney Riot of 1879]])
>
> * Player profile of Edmund Barton (first Prime Minister of Australia)
>   http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/columns/content/player/4432.html
>   (credited and GFDL-marked copy of [[Edmund Barton]])
>
> Obviously this is really pleasing for our cricket coverage; Cricinfo may
> be 'only' a website but it's one that every cricket fan with an Internet
> connection uses (not to mention one that we ourselves have raided
> mercilessly for information as a source!), so this is a nice recognition
> of the quality of Wikipedia's articles in this area.
>
> Cheers,
>
> N.

On the other hand who are we meant to cite now?

--
geni


body:
According to docs/database.txt (thanks Tim for writing this useful text),
database reads should use wfGetDB( DB_SLAVE ). However, when browsing
through the code, I found the following definition of Article::getDB() :

	/**
	 * Get the database which should be used for reads
	 *
	 * @return Database
	 */
	function &getDB() {
		$ret =& wfGetDB( DB_MASTER );
		return $ret;
	}

As far as I can see, the Database object returned by this function is used
to load the contents of the article.

Why is DB_MASTER used instead of DB_SLAVE?

Jitse


from_name: Fredrik Josefsson

subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
Hi. Are images on Wikimedia Commons have to be public domain worldwide  or should we take some prejudice of the servers location in the U.S.?

  As is well known, images published before 1923 in the U.S. are public  domain in the U.S and probably worldwide (unless the opposite can be  suspected). Images published anywhere in the world before 1923 is also  public domain in the United States , but many other countries apply the  70 years pma -- "after death of author".

  How zealous should we be? Is the 70 pma always to be applied?

  What if it is uncertain who the creator is, and whether he did more  than 70 years ago -- would it then be possible to keep the images for  the time being if the image was created before 1923 (such as images  from World War I)?

  / Fred (a.k.a. [[User:Fred-Chess]])

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from_name: Fred Bauder

subject: [WikiEN-l] "should not be written by an interested party"

body:
The question is still biased editing. If you insist on removing
perspectives other than your own...

Fred

On Apr 29, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Peter Jacobi wrote:

> I'm aware that policy isn't made in press interviews, even by Jimbo.
>
> But this starts getting quoted on talk pages:
>
> "Wales said entries have to meet a standard of newsworthiness and,
> as a
> general rule, should not be written by an interested party ? either a
> supporter or an opponent."
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12535412/from/RS.2/
>
> If didn't get this wrong, until now even interested parties
> are welcome, as long as they aim for NPOV -- with the notable
> exception of the autobiography clause.
>
> And where does "interested party" start?
>
> There are even topics so obscure ([[New Kadampa Tradition]] comes
> to my mind), that only vocal opponents and vocal proponents
> contribute. Should they already be considered "interested
> parties"? Shall we hope, that they will battle it out so that the
> result is NPOV?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> [[User:Pjacobi]]
>
> --
> "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ...
> Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
2006/4/29, Fredrik Josefsson <fred_chessplayer at yahoo.se>:
> Hi. Are images on Wikimedia Commons have to be public domain worldwide or
> should we take some prejudice of the servers location in the U.S.?
>
>  As is well known, images published before 1923 in the U.S. are public
> domain in the U.S and probably worldwide (unless the opposite can be
> suspected). Images published anywhere in the world before 1923 is also
> public domain in the United States , but many other countries apply the 70
> years pma -- "after death of author".
>
>  How zealous should we be? Is the 70 pma always to be applied?
>
>  What if it is uncertain who the creator is, and whether he did more than 70
> years ago -- would it then be possible to keep the images for the time being
> if the image was created before 1923 (such as images from World War I)?

My own proposal for policy on this point was to go with the laws of
the country of the original author.

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels


subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
2006/4/29, Matt Brown <morven at gmail.com>:
> On 4/29/06, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
> > My own proposal for policy on this point was to go with the laws of
> > the country of the original author.
>
> Should the nationality of the author take precedence over the place of
> first publication?

Hmmm... That's an interesting question.

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels


from_name: charles matthews

body:
"Nick Boalch" wrote

> Obviously this is really pleasing for our cricket coverage; Cricinfo may
> be 'only' a website but it's one that every cricket fan with an Internet
> connection uses (not to mention one that we ourselves have raided
> mercilessly for information as a source!), so this is a nice recognition
> of the quality of Wikipedia's articles in this area.

Yes, they're copious and largely good.

A quibble I have is that you find things like Viv Richards introduced as
'West Indian cricketer'.  Well, he is; but he is Antiguan by nationality.
He played for the West Indies team; and I suppose if you go back to the time
of the British West Indies then there is some further discussion to be had.

But I think it would be an improvement if the leads went the extra 22 yards
and made it 'Guyanese' and so on.  I feel slightly embarrassed about how it
is now.

Charles


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Foundation-l] Jimmy won a price given by the EFF

body:
Hoi,
For your information, I just read this
http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/14632/
<http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/14632/> and I
want to congratulate Jimmy for winning the recognition for being given a
pioneer award offered by the EFF ( Electronic Frontier Foundation ).

Brilliant :)

Thanks,
    GerardM


body:
Ironically, the reverse of this happened with Hostel 2 on wikipedia: Someone
started a hoax that it was called Hostel deux, posted it on wikipedia, then
other pages have been citing wikipedia as the primary source that Hostel 2
is now Hostel deux. It's been fixed now though.

-Swatjester

On 4/29/06, charles matthews <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "Nick Boalch" wrote
>
> > You realise this is just asking for {{sofixit}}, right? :-)
>
> Duck's back, water, that sort of thing.  I do fix up a _few_ things as it
> is.
>
> Charles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Dan Rosenthal
IWVO National Legislative Director


from_name: Ryan Delaney

body:
MSNBC articles aren't policy pages. Quoting policy pages excessively is
rules lawyering. Quoting MSNBC articles as if they are policy is just
ridiculous.

Ryan

On 4/29/06, Peter Jacobi <peter_jacobi at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> I'm aware that policy isn't made in press interviews, even by Jimbo.
>
> But this starts getting quoted on talk pages:
>
> "Wales said entries have to meet a standard of newsworthiness and, as a
> general rule, should not be written by an interested party ? either a
> supporter or an opponent."
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12535412/from/RS.2/
>
> If didn't get this wrong, until now even interested parties
> are welcome, as long as they aim for NPOV -- with the notable
> exception of the autobiography clause.
>
> And where does "interested party" start?
>
> There are even topics so obscure ([[New Kadampa Tradition]] comes
> to my mind), that only vocal opponents and vocal proponents
> contribute. Should they already be considered "interested
> parties"? Shall we hope, that they will battle it out so that the
> result is NPOV?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> [[User:Pjacobi]]
>
> --
> "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ...
> Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Steve Summit

body:
> "Wales said entries have to meet a standard of newsworthiness and, as a
> general rule, should not be written by an interested party - either a
> supporter or an opponent."
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12535412/from/RS.2/

I'm guessing he was talking about biographical articles, for
which that does sound like a pretty good general rule.  It's
already an informal rule that the subjects of biographies have
to be super careful if they ever try to edit their own articles,
and I'm pretty sure we were already discouraging it outright.

And on the other hand, given that Jimbo's been devoting a lot of
attention to excessively derogatory biographical articles lately,
I can see the point that editors with a strong negative bias are
potentially an even bigger problem there than in other contentious
articles.  And of course  biographies about politicians -- which
I now see is what the MSNBC article was about -- have their own
special degrees of contention.


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:

>NSLE (Wikipedia) wrote:
>
>
>>Done. Too bad there's zero chance of most non-Northeastern US Wikipedians
>>making the conference.
>>
>>
>It is a certainty that most Wikipedians will not make any conference anywhere at
>any time.
>
>This is the case of any conference or convention; each event will actually be
>visited by only a small subset of the potential target audience. This will
>include a higher proportion of people who are physically close to the event (for
>whom travel is easier). For migratory events like Wikimania, this means each
>event in the series will draw a demographically different population each time,
>'stirring up the pot'.
>
Imagine the chaos if they all showed up. :-)

Ec


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN:
	[13912]	trunk/extensions/SpamBlacklist/SpamBlacklist_body.php

body:
robchurch at svn.leuksman.com wrote:
> (reopened bug 5185) Match on two or more slashes on the protocol to prevent another blacklist workaround

Better to fix the parser so such illegal URLs aren't recognized, no?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
charles matthews wrote:
[Cricket articles]
> A quibble I have is that you find things like Viv Richards introduced as
> 'West Indian cricketer'.  Well, he is; but he is Antiguan by nationality.

You realise this is just asking for {{sofixit}}, right? :-)

I do take your point -- I suspect this is something that didn't even
occur in any meaningful way to the people writing the articles, for whom
'West Indian cricketer' will mentally expand to 'cricketer who played
for the West Indies' rather than implying anything unsavoury about
nationality.

Cheers,

N.

--
Nicholas Boalch
School of Modern Languages & Cultures       Tel: +44 (0) 191 334 3456
University of Durham                        Fax: +44 (0) 191 334 3421
New Elvet, Durham DH1 3JT, UK               WWW: http://nick.frejol.org/


subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN:  [13955] trunk/phase3

body:
robchurch at svn.leuksman.com wrote:
> Revision: 13955
[snip]
> -		$wgUser = $u;
> -		$wgUser->setCookies();
[snip]
> +		# Call hooks
>  		wfRunHooks( 'AddNewAccount', array( $u ) );

Calling the hook here, now before $wgUser is set, caused a privacy leak for a
few minutes. IP addresses of people registering new accounts were broadcast on
Recent Changes and the IRC feeds until the change was reverted.

I've removed the offending entries from the recentchanges tables.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
 "Nick Boalch" wrote

> You realise this is just asking for {{sofixit}}, right? :-)

Duck's back, water, that sort of thing.  I do fix up a _few_ things as it
is.

Charles


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-04-30

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Running test Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test Magic Word: {{NUMBEROFFILES}}... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test Language converter: output gets cut off unexpectedly (bug 5757)... FAILED!

Passed 300 of 304 tests (98.68%) FAILED!


from_name: Matt R

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Interface upload, how-to

body:
----- Original Message ----
From: Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com>

2006/4/28, Berto <albertoserra at ukr.net>:

> > Just an information: can anyone point me to a source of information on how
> > to upload a translated interface for the pms wiki? I just got sysopped,
> > well, bureaucratized, actually, but cannot seem to understand where to look
> > for help files.
>
> You can do that by changing the pages in the MediaWiki namespace. A
> list of those pages, and their contents, can be found at
> [[pms:Speciale:Allmessages]].

What about translating things like "User talk:" and "[[Image:Foo.jpg...]]" etc (i.e. namespaces)?

-- Matt
[[sw:User:Matt Crypto]]


from_name: Peter Jacobi

body:
I'm aware that policy isn't made in press interviews, even by Jimbo.

But this starts getting quoted on talk pages:

"Wales said entries have to meet a standard of newsworthiness and, as a
general rule, should not be written by an interested party ? either a
supporter or an opponent."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12535412/from/RS.2/

If didn't get this wrong, until now even interested parties
are welcome, as long as they aim for NPOV -- with the notable
exception of the autobiography clause.

And where does "interested party" start?

There are even topics so obscure ([[New Kadampa Tradition]] comes
to my mind), that only vocal opponents and vocal proponents
contribute. Should they already be considered "interested
parties"? Shall we hope, that they will battle it out so that the
result is NPOV?

Regards,
Peter
[[User:Pjacobi]]

--
"Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ...
Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail


from_name: Anthere

body:
Thanks for your feedback Jan.

Yes, you put your finger on it. I invited Egg to discuss the issue on
wikitech. But for now, I see no posting on the issue.

Ant

Jan Kulveit wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 04:38:57PM +0200, Anthere wrote:
> ...
>
>>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#Desysopping_of_cs:Wikipedista:Egg
>>
>>Whether technically possible or not technically possible, Proxybot was
>>both a sysop and a bot on the cs.wikipedia.
>>His activity is to block ips :
>>http://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speci?ln?%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxybot&page=
>>
>>Is that suitable that a bot also has a sysop status ?
>>
>>Ant
>>
>
>
> I think several aspects should be separated
> -technical implementation & mediawiki issues (problems with cluttering of logs etc.)
> -questions od accuracy of open proxy detection, if such blocks can be
> automated
> -should open proxies be blocked just because beeing open proxies?
>
> I hope Egg (creator of Proxybot) will post something about the bot in
> wikitech-l, in Requests_for_permissions also another solution was
> proposed, to import the blacklist directly into db. I hope this
> will be discussed in wikitech-l
>
> What seems to me as relevant topic for Foundation-l are the policy questions
>
> 1. should open proxies be blocked?
> some possible answers
> a. yes
> b. only after they are source of vandalism
> c. no, they should be treated as normal ips
> d. it should be left to local communities of language versions / projects to
> decide
>
> As we have a "WikiProject on open proxies"
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:OP
> and
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:NOP
> no open proxies policy
> the answer seems to be "yes", but see complains at
> [[en:Wikipedia talk:No open proxies#Foundation Issue Violation]]
>
> 2. can such blocks be automated?
> a. yes
> b. yes, if the list was verified by hand by experienced users
> c. yes, if the list was verified by trusted script run by trusted user
> d. yes, if the list comes from reputable source (is meta: page a reputable
> source?)
> e. no, it should be checked by hand one by one
> f. no
> g. it should be left to local communities of language versions / projects to
> decide
>
> In my opinion trusted proxycheck script run by trusted user is
> resonable. Scripts tend to err on side of caution (if I play with nmap
> etc. I'm able to identify more proxies  simple script is).
>
> My thought on the topic - if http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WM:NOP is
> official Foundation policy, it would make sense to have Wikimedia-wide
> ip blacklist, blocking proxies. One-by-one blocks by hand by admins of
> individual projects are IMO waste of time. That isn't a problem on en:
> with its overwhelming manpower, but for smaller project dealing with open
> proxy abuse may be non-negligeable burden. One technically savvy vandal
> can occupy several checkusers and admins for indefinite time period:
> all he has to do is to download some public open proxy list, run his
> own scan, and as soon as one proxy is blocked, switch to another.
>
> If privacy policy is relatively strict and blocking policy relatively
> liberal (warn several times, block only after several repeated
> vandalisms, if vandalizing edits are mixed with good edits, talk more,
> use RfC etc.) time impact on wiki users vs. vandal plays in favour
> of vandal.
>
> Jan Kulveit - User:Wikimol


from_name: Brianna Laugher

subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
>  How zealous should we be? Is the 70 pma always to be applied?

I certainly hope not. I waver in my opinion on the importance of
Avoiding Copyright Paranoia, but I don't see what's wrong with
respecting national laws. And I find it highly unlikely that in doing
so, we will be a target for claims of copyright infringement.

But then, I'm not a lawyery person. I trust anyone more lawyery than
me will let me know if I'm dead wrong.

Brianna


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [Commons-l] Public domain worldwide?

body:
Matt Brown wrote:
> On 4/29/06, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My own proposal for policy on this point was to go with the laws of
>> the country of the original author.
>
> Should the nationality of the author take precedence over the place of
> first publication?
>

To be safe, we should use whatever is the most restrictive - ie. if it's
PD-old in one but life+70 still applies in another, we wait. I wish it
was still "25 from publication unless extended" though - stupid Disney...

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Cheney Shill

body:
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:14:15 -0600
From: Fred Bauder
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Checkuser verification errors

Make a claim that there was an error and request a second opinion at
Wikipedia:Requests for CheckUser. Our competence varies.

Fred Bauder

On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Cheney Shill wrote:

> How does one resolve errors in checkuser results?~~~Pro-Lick

I made the request along with a request for other suggestions if declined and was "Declined" 4 days later without any explanation or proposed alternatives by Mackensen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser#Checkuser_error_resolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mackensen

Suggestions?  Arbitration?~~~~Pro-Lick

---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.


from_name: Zero

subject: [WikiEN-l] Blocked by Alkivar without Justification

body:
Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:  TGGG85 at aol.com wrote:
> Someone unblocked me without an explanation. [...] All of this
> nonsense alienates talented and expert writers. [...] Wikipedia is
> getting to be a tiresome place for innovation which rubs some
> administrators the wrong way. ENOUGH ALREADY!

>>So, uhm... you want to be blocked again?... I don't understand this >>posting.

  Most likely a miswrite. He is probably contesting an block he percieves to be unjust.
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.


from_name: Snoutwood

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia:Abuse reports

body:
A page, similar to WP:AIV and WP:RFCU, has been drafted for the purpose of
contacting ISPs whose users are vandalising WP. Once the page is in action,
it will provide a place to send IPs for whom previous attempts at foiling
their vandalism have failed in the hopes that ourselves and the ISPs can
figure out a solution (through blocking, account suspension, or something
else). Past experience has shown that contacting schools that vandals are
coming from is very effective. It's currently in a draft/proposed state, and
we want as many people as possible to comment on the talk page, and as many
interested volunteers as we can get to help it to run once it's on it's
feet. Here's the link, lads:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Abuse_reports.

Thanks for paying attention, mates.


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] SoC: Upload form improvements

body:
Chad Perrin wrote:
>
> As Brion Vibber and Christopher Budnick pointed out, each in his own
> way, I think the concern here is that you're adding needed functionality
> in a manner that makes good sense -- and that you're not throwing AJAX
> at it just because AJAX is buzzword-compliant.  I, for one, am perfectly
> happy with unadorned static (X)HTML when it solves the problem quickly,
> easily, and fully.  It runs faster and imposes less server load, too.
> Where AJAX provides actual measurable benefits, though, it's certainly
> an option to explore without prejudice.

Although I largely agree with you (especially the "buzzword-compliant"
bit, heh!), I must state that AJAX often does run faster and save server
load. Imagine there was an AJAX-y way of adding a language link to an
existing article. This is just an example. In the traditional way, you
have to (1) load up the edit page, (2) submit it, and (3) re-render the
article page. Even a separate mechanism to add language tags would have
those three steps. With AJAX, however, you would have JavaScript create
the UI to enter the tag *and* update the page in-place, client-side.
Only the submission step would be an actual server hit.

Timwi


body:
TGGG85 at aol.com wrote:
> Someone unblocked me without an explanation. [...] All of this
> nonsense alienates talented and expert writers. [...] Wikipedia is
> getting to be a tiresome place for innovation which rubs some
> administrators the wrong way. ENOUGH ALREADY!

So, uhm... you want to be blocked again?... I don't understand this posting.


body:
What's the point, really? You've already admitted you're a sock of
Halliburton Shill. Your email address is halliburton_shill at yahoo.com.
Exactly why are you protesting findings of that to which you've already
admitted?

k

On 4/30/06, Cheney Shill <halliburton_shill at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:14:15 -0600
> From: Fred Bauder
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Checkuser verification errors
>
> Make a claim that there was an error and request a second opinion at
> Wikipedia:Requests for CheckUser. Our competence varies.
>
> Fred Bauder
>
> On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Cheney Shill wrote:
>
> > How does one resolve errors in checkuser results?~~~Pro-Lick
>
>
>
>
> I made the request along with a request for other suggestions if declined
> and was "Declined" 4 days later without any explanation or proposed
> alternatives by Mackensen:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser#Checkuser_error_resolution
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mackensen
>
> Suggestions?  Arbitration?~~~~Pro-Lick
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save
> big.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Chad Perrin

body:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 01:06:02PM +0100, Timwi wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> >
> > As Brion Vibber and Christopher Budnick pointed out, each in his own
> > way, I think the concern here is that you're adding needed functionality
> > in a manner that makes good sense -- and that you're not throwing AJAX
> > at it just because AJAX is buzzword-compliant.  I, for one, am perfectly
> > happy with unadorned static (X)HTML when it solves the problem quickly,
> > easily, and fully.  It runs faster and imposes less server load, too.
> > Where AJAX provides actual measurable benefits, though, it's certainly
> > an option to explore without prejudice.
>
> Although I largely agree with you (especially the "buzzword-compliant"
> bit, heh!), I must state that AJAX often does run faster and save server
> load. Imagine there was an AJAX-y way of adding a language link to an
> existing article. This is just an example. In the traditional way, you
> have to (1) load up the edit page, (2) submit it, and (3) re-render the
> article page. Even a separate mechanism to add language tags would have
> those three steps. With AJAX, however, you would have JavaScript create
> the UI to enter the tag *and* update the page in-place, client-side.
> Only the submission step would be an actual server hit.

True -- there are ways to leverage AJAX and similar technologies to
reduce server load.  It requires care and good planning to implement
them, though, and it's of critical importance in a project like
MediaWiki to ensure that it degrades gracefully so that everything still
works even if the client doesn't allow Javascript.  Like I said, if it
adds positive value, it's a good idea.  You just have to know what
you're doing and why you're doing it.

--
Chad Perrin [ CCD CopyWrite | http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
"The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your
hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do." - McCloctnick the Lucid