subject: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual interface

body:
On Sunday 16 May 2004 09:16, Brion Vibber wrote:
> Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> > About GlobalFunctions.php: strcasecmp is probably an error, and get_class
> > accepts only one argument. It works this way for me (PHP 4.1.0).
>
> No, strcasecmp is correct: get_class always returns a lowercase value,
> so the comparison needs to be case insensitive. There is however a
> misnested parenthesis.

I see now. OK, here it is, all changes required for the multilingual
interface. Now different languages all have different default settings, and
everything which needs to fallbacks on English except for Chinese and
Japanese. I hope that this could make it to the new release...

Index: LocalSettings.sample
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/LocalSettings.sample,v
retrieving revision 1.34
diff -u -3 -p -r1.34 LocalSettings.sample
--- LocalSettings.sample        8 May 2004 02:15:49 -0000       1.34
+++ LocalSettings.sample        22 May 2004 12:25:03 -0000
@@ -141,6 +141,8 @@ $wgLocalInterwiki   = $wgSitename;

 ## If you want a non-English wiki, add a line like this
 # $wgLanguageCode = "de";
+## If you want your wiki to have several languages, add their codes into an
array like this
+# $wgLanguageArray = array("en","de","sr");

 ## Character encoding: normally auto-selected by the language.
 ## English, German, Danish, Dutch, French, Spanish, and Swedish
Index: includes/DefaultSettings.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/DefaultSettings.php,v
retrieving revision 1.110
diff -u -3 -p -r1.110 DefaultSettings.php
--- includes/DefaultSettings.php        21 May 2004 19:04:52 -0000      1.110
+++ includes/DefaultSettings.php        22 May 2004 12:25:06 -0000
@@ -94,6 +94,7 @@ $wgLinkCacheMemcached = false; # Not ful
 #
 $wgLanguageCode     = "en";
 $wgLanguageFile     = false; # Filename of a language file generated by
dumpMessages.php
+$wgLanguageArray    = false; # Monolingual by default
 $wgInterwikiMagic      = true; # Treat language links as magic connectors,
not inline links
 $wgInputEncoding       = "ISO-8859-1";
 $wgOutputEncoding      = "ISO-8859-1";
Index: includes/GlobalFunctions.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/GlobalFunctions.php,v
retrieving revision 1.86
diff -u -3 -p -r1.86 GlobalFunctions.php
--- includes/GlobalFunctions.php        17 May 2004 20:04:50 -0000      1.86
+++ includes/GlobalFunctions.php        22 May 2004 12:25:09 -0000
@@ -40,8 +40,8 @@ if( !function_exists('is_a') ) {
        # Exists in PHP 4.2.0+
        function is_a( $object, $class_name ) {
                return
-                       (strcasecmp( get_class( $object, $class_name ) == 0)
||
-                        is_subclass_of( $object, $class_name ) );
+                       (strcasecmp( get_class( $object ), $class_name ) == 0)
||
+                        is_subclass_of( $object, $class_name ) ;
        }
 }

@@ -261,7 +261,7 @@ function wfReadOnly()
        global $wgReadOnlyFile;

        if ( "" == $wgReadOnlyFile ) { return false; }
-       return is_file( $wgReadOnlyFile );
+       return @is_file( $wgReadOnlyFile );
 }

 $wgReplacementKeys = array( "$1", "$2", "$3", "$4", "$5", "$6", "$7", "$8",
"$9" );
Index: includes/Setup.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/Setup.php,v
retrieving revision 1.47
diff -u -3 -p -r1.47 Setup.php
--- includes/Setup.php  15 May 2004 03:36:38 -0000      1.47
+++ includes/Setup.php  22 May 2004 12:25:10 -0000
@@ -144,7 +144,47 @@ if( $wgUseMemCached ) {
 wfProfileOut( "$fname-memcached" );
 wfProfileIn( "$fname-misc" );

-require_once( "languages/Language.php" );
+if( !$wgLanguageArray ) {
+       require_once( "languages/Language.php" );
+}
+
+if( !$wgCommandLineMode && ( isset( $_COOKIE[ini_get("session.name")] ) ||
isset
+( $_COOKIE["{$wgDBname}Password"] ) ) ) {
+       User::SetupSession();
+}
+
+$wgBlockCache = new BlockCache( true );
+if( $wgCommandLineMode ) {
+       # Used for some maintenance scripts; user session cookies can screw
things up
+       # when the database is in an in-between state.
+       $wgUser = new User();
+} else {
+       $wgUser = User::loadFromSession();
+}
+
+if( $wgLanguageArray ) {
+        if($_GET['language']&&in_array($_GET['language'],$wgLanguageArray)) {
+                $wgLanguageCode=$_GET['language'];
+        } else
if($_POST['wpLanguage']&&in_array($_POST['wpLanguage'],$wgLanguageArray)) {
+                $wgLanguageCode=$_POST['wpLanguage'];
+        } else {
+                $wgLanguageCode = $wgUser->getOption("language");
+        }
+}
+
+       require_once( "languages/Language.php" );
+
+if( $wgLanguageArray ) {
+       $UCFLC=ucfirst( $wgLanguageCode );
+       eval("
+       \$wgNamespaceNames$UCFLC=\$wgNamespaceNamesEn;
+       \$wgMagicWords$UCFLC=\$wgMagicWordsEn;
+       \$wgAllMessages$UCFLC ['linktrail']=\$wgAllMessagesEn ['linktrail'];
+       \$wgAllMessages$UCFLC ['uploadlog']=\$wgAllMessagesEn ['uploadlog'];
+       \$wgAllMessages$UCFLC ['uploadlogpage']=\$wgAllMessagesEn
['uploadlogpage'];
+       \$wgAllMessages$UCFLC ['deletionlog']=\$wgAllMessagesEn
['deletionlog'];
+       ");
+}

 $wgMessageCache = new MessageCache;

@@ -158,6 +198,11 @@ $wgLang = new $wgLangClass();
 if ( !is_object($wgLang) ) {
        print "No language class ($wgLang)\N";
 }
+
+if(!$this->mId) {
+       $wgUser->setDefaultOptions($wgLang->getDefaultUserOptions());
+}
+
 $wgMessageCache->initialise( $messageMemc, $wgUseDatabaseMessages,
$wgMsgCacheExpiry, $wgDBname );

 $wgOut = new OutputPage();
@@ -169,7 +214,7 @@ if ( $wgUseDynamicDates ) {
        $wgDateFormatter = new DateFormatter;
 }

-if( !$wgCommandLineMode && ( isset( $_COOKIE[ini_get("session.name")] ) ||
isset( $_COOKIE["{$wgDBname}Password"] ) ) ) {
+/*if( !$wgCommandLineMode && ( isset( $_COOKIE[ini_get("session.name")] ) ||
isset( $_COOKIE["{$wgDBname}Password"] ) ) ) {
        User::SetupSession();
 }

@@ -180,7 +225,7 @@ if( $wgCommandLineMode ) {
        $wgUser = new User();
 } else {
        $wgUser = User::loadFromSession();
-}
+}*/
 $wgDeferredUpdateList = array();
 $wgLinkCache = new LinkCache();
 $wgMagicWords = array();
Index: includes/SpecialPreferences.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/SpecialPreferences.php,v
retrieving revision 1.46
diff -u -3 -p -r1.46 SpecialPreferences.php
--- includes/SpecialPreferences.php     20 May 2004 11:26:32 -0000      1.46
+++ includes/SpecialPreferences.php     22 May 2004 12:25:11 -0000
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@ class PreferencesForm {
        var $mQuickbar, $mOldpass, $mNewpass, $mRetypePass, $mStubs;
        var $mRows, $mCols, $mSkin, $mMath, $mDate, $mUserEmail, $mEmailFlag,
$mNick;
        var $mSearch, $mRecent, $mHourDiff, $mSearchLines, $mSearchChars,
$mAction;
-       var $mReset, $mPosted, $mToggles, $mSearchNs, $mRealName;
+       var $mReset, $mPosted, $mToggles, $mSearchNs, $mRealName, $mLanguage;

        function PreferencesForm( &$request ) {
                global $wgLang;
@@ -39,6 +39,7 @@ class PreferencesForm {
                $this->mReset = $request->getCheck( 'wpReset' );
                $this->mPosted = $request->wasPosted();
                $this->mSaveprefs = $request->getCheck( 'wpSaveprefs' ) &&
$this->mPosted;
+               $this->mLanguage = $request->getVal( 'wpLanguage' );

                # User toggles  (the big ugly unsorted list of checkboxes)
                $this->mToggles = array();
@@ -158,6 +159,7 @@ class PreferencesForm {
                $wgUser->setOption( "cols", $this->validateInt( $this->mCols,
4, 1000 ) );
                $wgUser->setOption( "stubthreshold", $this->validateIntOrNull(
$this->mStubs ) );
                $wgUser->setOption( "timecorrection", $this->validateTimeZone(
$this->mHourDiff, -12, 14 ) );
+               $wgUser->setOption( "language", $this->mLanguage );

                # Set search namespace options
                foreach( $this->mSearchNs as $i => $value ) {
@@ -201,6 +203,7 @@ class PreferencesForm {
                $this->mSearchLines = $wgUser->getOption( "contextlines" );
                $this->mSearchChars = $wgUser->getOption( "contextchars" );
                $this->mRecent = $wgUser->getOption( "rclimit" );
+               $this->mLanguage = $wgUser->getOption( "language" );

                $togs = $wgLang->getUserToggles();
                foreach ( $togs as $tname => $ttext ) {
@@ -264,7 +267,7 @@ class PreferencesForm {

        /* private */ function mainPrefsForm( $err )
        {
-               global $wgUser, $wgOut, $wgLang, $wgUseDynamicDates,
$wgValidSkinNames;
+               global $wgUser, $wgOut, $wgLang, $wgUseDynamicDates,
$wgValidSkinNames,$wgLanguageArray;

                $wgOut->setPageTitle( wfMsg( "preferences" ) );
                $wgOut->setArticleRelated( false );
@@ -320,6 +323,20 @@ class PreferencesForm {
                $wgOut->addHTML( "<form id=\"preferences\"
name=\"preferences\" action=\"$action\"
        method=\"post\">" );

+               # Zeroth section: language
+               #
+               if($wgLanguageArray) {
+                       $wgOut->addHTML( "<fieldset>
+                       <legend>Language</legend>
+
<select name=\"wpLanguage\">" );
+                       foreach( $wgLanguageArray as $v)
+                               $wgOut->addHTML( "<option value=\"$v\" ".
+                               (($v==$this->mLanguage)?"selected":"").
+                               ">".$wgLang->getLanguageName( $v ).
+                               "</option>" );
+                       $wgOut->addHTML( "</select>
</fieldset>" );
+               }
+
                # First section: identity
                # Email, etc.
                #
Index: includes/User.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/User.php,v
retrieving revision 1.52
diff -u -3 -p -r1.52 User.php
--- includes/User.php   22 May 2004 04:53:02 -0000      1.52
+++ includes/User.php   22 May 2004 12:25:13 -0000
@@ -82,7 +82,7 @@ class User {

        function loadDefaults()
        {
-               global $wgLang, $wgIP;
+               global $wgLang, $wgIP, $wgLanguageArray;
                global $wgNamespacesToBeSearchedDefault;

                $this->mId = $this->mNewtalk = 0;
@@ -90,10 +90,17 @@ class User {
                $this->mEmail = "";
                $this->mPassword = $this->mNewpassword = "";
                $this->mRights = array();
-               $defOpt = $wgLang->getDefaultUserOptions() ;
-               foreach ( $defOpt as $oname => $val ) {
-                       $this->mOptions[$oname] = $val;
-               }
+               $this->setDefaultOptions(array(
+                       "quickbar" => 1, "underline" => 1, "hover" => 1,
+                       "cols" => 80, "rows" => 25, "searchlimit" => 20,
+                       "contextlines" => 5, "contextchars" => 50,
+                       "skin" => 0, "math" => 1, "rcdays" => 7, "rclimit" =>
50,
+                       "highlightbroken" => 1, "stubthreshold" => 0,
+                       "previewontop" => 1,
+                       "editsection"=>1,"editsectiononrightclick"=>0,
"showtoc"=>1,
+                       "showtoolbar" =>1,
+                       "date" => 0, "language" => "en"
+                       ));
                foreach ($wgNamespacesToBeSearchedDefault as $nsnum => $val) {
                        $this->mOptions["searchNs".$nsnum] = $val;
                }
@@ -279,6 +286,13 @@ class User {
                $this->mDataLoaded = true;
        }

+       function setDefaultOptions($defOpt)
+       {
+                foreach ( $defOpt as $oname => $val ) {
+                        $this->mOptions[$oname] = $val;
+                }
+       }
+
        function getID() { return $this->mId; }
        function setID( $v ) {
                $this->mId = $v;


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Peter Jaros

subject: [WikiEN-l] More on recipes

body:
On May 21, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:

> 3.  Concerns about whether we have to include 50 recipes for something
> as mundane as Chocolate cake are valid concerns, but they are in
> principle no different from concerns in other articles as to how much
> detail to include, and the same sorts of external considerations can
> come into play just as well here.

I think chocolate cake is a broad enough topic to have sections, or
perhaps separate articles, about different kinds of chocolate cake,
each of which can be illustrated by an appropriate example recipe.
Presumably, any food topic this broad will be similarly divisible.

Peter

                            -- ---<>--- --
                  A house without walls cannot fall.
     Help build the world's largest encyclopedia at Wikipedia.org
                            -- ---<>--- --


list: wikipedia-l

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Name of Chinese Wiktionary

body:
On May 5, 2004, at 5:14 PM, kelvSYC wrote:

> It's a bit off-topic here, but I wanted to reach a larger audience, so
> here goes:

Let's move this to Wiktionary-l.  Now that you've reached a larger
audience, anyone interested should subscribe to that list.

Peter

                            -- ---<>--- --
                  A house without walls cannot fall.
     Help build the world's largest encyclopedia at Wikipedia.org
                            -- ---<>--- --


from_name: jheiskan at welho.com

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: I want to start a new language... with the
	code"eg" please.

body:
Lainaus Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>:

> Ralesk Ne'vennoyx wrote:
>
> >> Klingon does have quite a big amount of written stuff already.
> >>

...snip...

> >> I don't see anything "embarassing" with klingon; but the fact is people
> >> that use klingon do it for fun, not to communicate knowledge, much less
> >> to build a repository of human knowledge like an encyclopedia.
> >
> > But some of them want to, that?s exactly why they are or have been
> > asking for a wikispace here. (duh!)
>
> My personal attitude to a Klingon language encyclopedia is a benign
> "Whatever..."   I don't worry about it enough to care about how many
> articles they have.  It does seem sometimes that those who object to
> that project best express the Klingon characteristics in their own
> personalities.
>
> The argument is often expressed about this, and about a number of other
> issues, that dealing with these would bring embarassment on Wikipedia.
> Well they might inspire the occasional giggle, but that's still far
> removed from embarassment.
>
> Innovators don't worry about embarassment.  If they did nothing would
> ever move forward.
>
> Ec

Very well put. I would add that as Wikipedia gains visibility, we should worry
about our image less, and not more. We will *define* the correct way of dealing
with these and other issues.

We _will_ become the 900 pound gorilla of the net. We can have a language
project for a nascent or dying language! We decide what languages we have! Not
any public expectation!

--
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen aka. Cimon Avaro


from_name: Ralesk Ne'vennoyx

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: I want to start a new language... with	the
	code"eg" please.

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> Ralesk Ne'vennoyx wrote:
>
>> PS: it seems the mail server is crapping itself yet again and is
>> sending out months old stuff now.
>
>
> Nope. The mailing list adminstrators haven't been keeping up with this
> list; I went through and released the (non-spam) messages that have been
> held for moderation over the last two months.
>
Oh, Thanks for clarification.


subject: [WikiEN-l] More on recipes

body:
On May 22, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Delirium wrote:

> Where there are identifiable distinct types that are commonly made,
> that makes sense.  In many cases though, you can vary almost any of
> the ingredients, which results in an exponential number of possible
> recipes.  It'd make more sense (to me) to describe it in a prose style
> instead of a recipe style, saying things like "in some areas walnuts
> or chestnuts are commonly added on top", or "a number of other
> ingredients, including orange peel, nutmeg, coffee grinds, ... are
> sometimes added" (examples made up on the spot).

I'll agree, but I think the prose makes more sense after a basic
recipe for illustrative purposes.

Peter

                            -- ---<>--- --
                  A house without walls cannot fall.
     Help build the world's largest encyclopedia at Wikipedia.org
                            -- ---<>--- --


from_name: Cerise Rose

subject: [WikiEN-l] Can someone please explain to me...

body:
I was browsing through some topics in the wikipedia this morning, without problem.  This afternoon, I find myself ip-blocked.

I have never edited or attempted to edit a page.  I don't even have a login for the site.

If it's a mass ban, fine.  However, I am not signing up with a login simply to tell them I've been banned for no apparent reason, when all I'm doing is reading.

If you don't want people browsing through your site, then make the pages unaccessible unless logged in.  Or, don't make it possible to block ips for people who aren't editing or logging in.

I was finding what I was reading interesting.  However, I guess now I'll just go elsewhere.  If you actually want page hits and readership you might want to think about your policies.  I already feel like the amount of time I've wasted even emailing you far outweighs anything of interest I found there.

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/attachments/20040522/434783fc/attachment.htm


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Commons

body:
Jimmy-
> I just wanted to say that I really strongly support the central
> ideas put forward by Erik here:
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons

Thank you for your support. I would like to again invite all interested
parties (especially developers, but also writers, photographers etc.) to
add themselves on the above page, so that we can together move this
project forward after MediaWiki 1.3 has reached a stable state. As the
above proposal states, I hope that we can also implement single sign-on in
one fell swoop with the Commons itself, which would be one important step
to bring the individual Wikimedia projects closer together.

As you correctly say, this needs decent planning. I think existing media
files should be moved over gradually - not all at once, but automatically
through a script that checks for allowed license tags, and moves those
over at a limited rate, to ensure that humans can look over them. I hope,
but can of course not predict, that the constant rate of files flowing
into the Commons in the first few weeks will get people interested in
building the structure and adding to it directly.

> p.s. I do not like the use of the word 'altruism' in his proposal, but
> that's just something he said on the side, not central to what he's
> talking about.  I wouldn't mention it, except that it's a
> philosophical peeve of mine.  :-)

Hmm, looks like we need wikiphilosophy-l now ;-). Alternatively, we can
rephrase it as NPOV: "We can appeal to what *some people see* as altruism,
while objectivists have argued that .."

Erik


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: help me

body:
Timwi-
> One article I wrote was rejected from being featured solely on the
> grounds of covering too obscure a topic.

That's because people have different ideas of what FA is supposed to be.
While I see it as an early stage quality control mechanism (and wanted
this to be reflected in the title when Brilliant Prose was renamed),
others, at least for now, consider it as little more than the process we
use to select articles to introduce readers to Wikipedia. Effectively it's
a bit of both. I believe that moving toward a well-defined peer review
process which can coexist with the FA selection will solve this problem.
I've written a bit about this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eloquence/Platform

Regards,

Erik


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Karl Eichwalder

subject: [Wikitech-l] referencing PG books

body:
The Project Gutenberg recently put a new directory system in place.
Now it is possible to reference their books easily and I propose to go
for it.  As for ISBN invent a "tag" (proposal: PGNO = Project Gutenberg
No) and teach the parser to decode the number.  Eplanation from the
GUTINDEX.ALL file:

    The path is also based on the etext number, and is made up of single
    digits corresponding to all but the last digit in the filename.  So,
    if you know the number, you know exactly where to find the eBook!

    The path for our example, 10010.txt, would be /1/0/0/1/10010/.  Of
    course, the address of the download site would have to be prepended
    to the path; if the main PG site was being used, the full URL,
    including the filename, would be:

      http://ibiblio.org/gutenberg/1/0/0/1/10010/10010.txt

    The zip file of the above would be:

      http://ibiblio.org/gutenberg/1/0/0/1/10010/10010.zip

    Using the ftp site at iBiblio to obtain the zip:

      ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/docs/books/gutenberg/1/0/0/1/10010/10010.zip

    And you can see all the available files for #10010 at

      http://ibiblio.org/gutenberg/1/0/0/1/10010

As you can see, the first 4 digits are used as (sub)directory names;
then the entire number is used as the final directory where all the
formats of the book are to be found; convert "PGNO 10010" to:

    Project
    Gutenberg No 10010

--
                                                         |      ,__o
                                                         |    _-\_<,
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |   (*)/'(*)


from_name: Geoff Burling

subject: [WikiEN-l] More on recipes

body:
On Sat, 22 May 2004, Peter Jaros wrote:

> On May 21, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:
>
> > 3.  Concerns about whether we have to include 50 recipes for something
> > as mundane as Chocolate cake are valid concerns, but they are in
> > principle no different from concerns in other articles as to how much
> > detail to include, and the same sorts of external considerations can
> > come into play just as well here.
>
> I think chocolate cake is a broad enough topic to have sections, or
> perhaps separate articles, about different kinds of chocolate cake,
> each of which can be illustrated by an appropriate example recipe.
> Presumably, any food topic this broad will be similarly divisible.
>
Adding my two cents . . .

I took a look at the article [[Chili]] (properly [[Chili con carne]])
just to get a feel for how the problems that might arise from including
recipes have been dealt with (or have failed to be dealt with). I selected
this dish because it is one place where I expect that we will have NPOV
disputes over recipies. This is what I noticed:

*There is an introductory paragraph, that explains a little about the
dish.
*There are several recipes, only one of which (i.e. "Cincinnati Chili")
goes into some detail about the background.
*There are a number of omissions in this article.

Let me develop that last point further. I am not by any means a Chili
expert (although I do enjoy a good bowl of chili), but I did miss reference
to the following facts:

*There is an annual Texas Chili contest. IIRC a Wall Street Journal article
from several years ago, one entrant made his chili without beans, meat,
chocolate or several other expected ingredients.
*The state of New Mexico is known for having regional varieties of Chilis
*A source for the recipies that were provided. (Did they come from a
cookbook? Or from a family recipie? If so, can we localize this family, say
in Texas?)

In short, if one were to remove these recipies, the Chili article becomes
a scrappy little article that is barely more than a stub. There is almost
no information about how Chili is a significant part of some American regional
cultures, & the various ways one can make Chili helps to distinguish
between them. (Similar to pasta in Italy, beer in Britain & Germany, &
countless other examples I hope that find their way into Wikipedia.)

I'm not against the inclusion of recipies in Wikipedia: I'm something of an
agnostic on the issue. It's like including quotations in an article, where
quoting an authority or well-explained POV can make a lot more sense than
paraphrasing (or using weasel words like "some experts think"). However,
an article should not be simply a collection of recipies or practical
instructions -- otherwise, we end up with the same problem voiced in another
thread about the article on the [[XFree86 logfile]].

Geoff


from_name: leon breedt

subject: [WikiEN-l] questionable use of wikipedia content

body:
hi,

i'm not sure that this is actually a violation of the GNU FDL, but:

http://www.fact-index.com is a blatant rip of wikipedia content, the
only difference being that browsing into anything sucks in some google
ad revenue via textads.

due to the extent of the content slurping they have done they show up
pretty high in the google rankings as well.

the things people will do for a buck :/

leon


from_name: Jens Frank

subject: [Wikitech-l] referencing PG books

body:
On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 06:50:42AM +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
> The Project Gutenberg recently put a new directory system in place.
> Now it is possible to reference their books easily and I propose to go
> for it.  As for ISBN invent a "tag" (proposal: PGNO = Project Gutenberg
> No) and teach the parser to decode the number.  Eplanation from the
> GUTINDEX.ALL file:
> [...]

Where do you get an ISBN from? From the back cover of a book you're citing.
Where do you get a PGNO from? From the Gutenberg website. If you're already
there, nothing is easier than copying the URL and writing

	[http://gutenberg.net/1/0/0/1/10010/ The Eulogies of Howard]

I don't see a need for an extra magical word for this.

Best regards,

JeLuF


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: referencing PG books

body:
Jens Frank <JeLuF at gmx.de> writes:

> Where do you get an ISBN from? From the back cover of a book you're citing.
> Where do you get a PGNO from?

>From the index files (e.g., GUTINDEX-2004.txt).  I just discovered that
a URL as follows is even better:

    http://www.gutenberg.net/etext/12400

> 	[http://gutenberg.net/1/0/0/1/10010/ The Eulogies of Howard]
>
> I don't see a need for an extra magical word for this.

Maybe, you are right.  For the moment, forget about my proposal.

--
                                                         |      ,__o
                                                         |    _-\_<,
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |   (*)/'(*)


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]

body:
Viajero wrote:

>Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]?
>
>The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some of the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in psuedo-objective style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to tackle this stuff?
>
>I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure how.
>
Maybe just changing the title to [[Anti-French ignorance in the United
States]] might be enough. :-)

Ec


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Commons

body:
Andre Engels wrote:
> It's not that I don't like your plans. I do. And when the time
> comes, I'll join in. For now I'll just count my losses. And wonder
> why you might succeed and I do not. Is it because you are a
> developer and I'm not? Because your plans are grand and mine
> down-to-earth? Because I'm not brazen enough? Anyway, I lost.
> Again.

I'm not sure what you mean, but let me just say that it was not my
intention to favor anything specific about Erik's proposal for a
commons over other proposals that may have been put forward at various
times.  I very much appreciate, Andre, all your incredibly
contributions to the project and would regret it very much if
something I said seemed to lack respect for you and your ideas.  That
was not my intention at all.

--Jimbo


from_name: ruimu uestc

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia and Wiktionary

body:
----- Original Message -----
From: "fabiform" <fabiform_wikipedian at yahoo.com>

> If you really want to encourage wikipedians to use wiktionary, how about
> simply adding a wiktionary search box next to/under the wikipedia one?

Yes, much simpler. And if we had a kind of feedback showing the most common
words searched while reading an article, we could also improve their clarity
and simplicity.


from_name: Ronny Raschkowan

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Webby awards

body:
Fennec Foxen schrieb:
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 07:09:23 -0700, Jimmy Wales <jwales at bomis.com> wrote:
>
>>But it occurred to me that these things might be valuable to some
>>contributors, and apparently I can order them for anyone who wants
>>them.
>
> What's the timeframe on these orders? I don't suppose there's any
> chance of us ordering them, say, several years from now when some of
> us, actually have money (and by "some of us", I mean me)- heh, maybe
> we'll win it again by then :) But even disregarding several years from
> now, do you have any idea of the approximate deadline?

Yes, it would be interesting to know the timeframe of the orders. By the
way i would be interested in the design of the Webby Awards or of the
certificate. Are there anywhere pictures of these?

[[U:Fire]]


from_name: Rick

body:
172 has taken it upon himself to make this an anti-American screed, and has gone so far as to make multiple reverts in a 24 hour period, but no one will do anything about him, so I have given up.  Even when I pointed that out, I was told, "Oh, he must not have done it intentionally."

Let any article he works on be anti-American, which is his goal, because nobody will do anything about him.

RickK

Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]?

The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some of the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in psuedo-objective style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to tackle this stuff?

I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure how.

V.
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/attachments/20040523/57b42cd3/attachment.htm


subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Question concerning Planning Jimmys Trip to Europe
	/ Prix Ars Electronica

body:
Danny (daniwo) will be attending on my behalf.

Ulrich Fuchs wrote:

> I just looked over Jimmys time table for his trip to Europe on
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales
>
> On June 23 I find a meeting with Fantasy. However, please keep in mind that on
> June 23 there will be (as far as I know) the Gala for the Prix Ars
> Electronica in New York:
>
> http://www.sap.com/company/events/prixarselectronica.asp
>
> So, the question is: Is anything arranged concerning that Gala? Did anybody
> contacted the organisators already??? Have the organisators contacted us? Who
> of us is going to go there if Jimmy is in Europe?
>
> Please keep in mind that among the people who already won the Prix Ars
> Electronica are people like Linus Thorvalds, and that there is a price money
> of 10.000 ??? for us. So somebody really should show up there! It would be very
> embarrassing if they call up Wikipedia and nobody is there!
>
> Uli
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Camille Constans

subject: [Wikitech-l] wiktionary wikistats

body:
Thanks to Erik Zachte, wiktionary stats are now online on :

http://www.wikipedia.org/wikistats/wiktionary/EN/Sitemap.htm

Shaihulud


from_name: Delirium

body:
Charles Matthews wrote:

>There is tendentious 'current affairs' stuff posted, it seems, more or less
>constantly.  It probably doesn't get deleted at VfD, since there will be a
>'public interest' defence.  It might get tweaked into some sort of rational
>argument; my feeling is that this is about the best that can be hoped for -
>e.g. showing that prejudices are irrational.  I rarely go near such things
>myself, since it is hard to believe it is work of permanent value.
>
>
I think it's of some cultural interest---the US and France have had a
stormy relationship for quite some time (which isn't yet fully
documented in that article), and even Mark Twain in the 19th century was
known to make some anti-French cracks.  The US perception towards France
is important both culturally (the perception of French as snooty and
aristocratic, and Parisians as promiscuous), and, in the 20th century,
politically.

Of course, the article could almost certainly be improved.

-Mark


from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Commons

body:
"Erik Moeller" <erik_moeller at gmx.de> schrieb:
> Jimmy-
> > I just wanted to say that I really strongly support the central
> > ideas put forward by Erik here:
> > http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Commons
>
> Thank you for your support. I would like to again invite all interested
> parties (especially developers, but also writers, photographers etc.) to
> add themselves on the above page, so that we can together move this
> project forward after MediaWiki 1.3 has reached a stable state. As the
> above proposal states, I hope that we can also implement single sign-on in
> one fell swoop with the Commons itself, which would be one important step
> to bring the individual Wikimedia projects closer together.

I am still willing to help and aid in this project. However, as things
look now, the only help I can offer you is to discontinue any plans I
myself have in this direction until you are ready.

One time there was just the English Wikipedia, then other languages
were made. I have the feeling that I'm like someone wanting to set
up another language and getting the answer that it's a good idea, but
that in half a year there will be a new software with language links
and the possibility to have an interface adaptable to languages, and
I just wait for that.

It's not that I don't like your plans. I do. And when the time
comes, I'll join in. For now I'll just count my losses. And wonder
why you might succeed and I do not. Is it because you are a
developer and I'm not? Because your plans are grand and mine
down-to-earth? Because I'm not brazen enough? Anyway, I lost.
Again.

Andre Engels


body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Viajero wrote:
>
>> Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French
>> sentiment in the United States]]?
>>
>> The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some of
>> the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in psuedo-objective
>> style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to tackle this stuff?
>> I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure
>> how.
>>
> Maybe just changing the title to [[Anti-French ignorance in the United
> States]] might be enough. :-)

Of course, then we might have to rename [[Anti-American sentiment]]
similarly. =]

FWIW, I think both the articles could use a bit of work, as they're both
essentially listings of accusations, along the lines of "why some people
think country [x] sucks", rather than actually having any sort of
coherent narrative structure.

-Mark


subject: [Wikitech-l] request about raid setup for the new db server

body:
Hello,

I would like request to set the new db server with raid10. According to :

http://www.sql-server-performance.com/fixing_bottlenecks.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/optimsql/odp_tun_1_87jm.asp
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci903958,00.html
http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/pubs/bangbuck/bangbuck.php
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/power/en/ps3q99_raid?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz

And LiveJournal seem to use raid 10 too.

When Geoffrin was working, with the raid10. It was very fast. And with search enabled !

I really think raid10 would be the best configuration to use. As there is 6 x 73 GB drive, we could have have ~ 220GB of space. Which would let us quiet for some time.

Shaihulud


from_name: Daniel P.B.Smith

body:
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
>>
> I think it's of some cultural interest---the US and France have had a
> stormy relationship for quite some time (which isn't yet fully
> documented in that article), and even Mark Twain in the 19th century
> was
> known to make some anti-French cracks.  The US perception towards
> France
> is important both culturally (the perception of French as snooty and
> aristocratic, and Parisians as promiscuous), and, in the 20th century,
> politically.

Presumably, at least some of this was inherited by the United States
from the longstanding rivalry/competition/enmity between Britain and
France?  I vaguely recall something happening in 1066... and some short
guy in a funny hat who kept sticking his hand in his shirt...

--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith at verizon.net alternate:
dpbsmith at alum.mit.edu
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1157 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/attachments/20040523/b7e3a459/attachment.bin


subject: [WikiEN-l] SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW

body:
WIkipedia is running agonizingly slowly today.  I'm having trouble posting anything because it keeps timing out on me.  Am I alone in this?

RickK

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/attachments/20040523/17007184/attachment.htm


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Association et foundation

body:
> 1. Elle doit repr?senter le maximum de participants,
car si nous
> construisons ce projet ensemble, nous avons aussi
tous notre mot ?
> dire sur la fa?on dont il est distribu?. Si nous
avons des fonds ?
> utiliser, nous devons tous avoir notre mot ? dire
sur la fa?on dont
> il est d?pens?. Si nous avons un serveur ? acheter,
tous les
> d?veloppeurs ont leur mot ? dire, qu?ils soient
membres cotisants
> ou non. En d?autres termes, les diff?rents
responsables de
> l?association (pr?sident, tr?sorier, membres du
conseil) doivent
> ?tre ?lus par tous les participants, et non pas
seulement ceux
> pr?sents ? la r?union de fondation ; en d?autres
termes aussi, les
> d?cisions prises par les responsables de
l?association doivent
> r?sulter de discussions faites sur Wikipedia
ensemble et non pas de
> discussions limit?es aux assembl?es g?n?rales.
Enfin, l?association
> ne peut pas parler au nom de Wikipedia, si elle ne
repr?sente que
> 5% des participants.

Needs good user representation and oversight.
Anthere?

------

Yes Chris ?

Thanks for the translation Chris.

I mostly mean that if the french association is only
set up by a very small subset of the french community,
then it can't claim to represent the french wikipedia
(and wiktionary).
The small subset being those willing to go to Paris
:-)

Even if Paris is delicious, beautiful and quiet in
summer :-)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: Charles Matthews

body:
>I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure how.

>V.

There is tendentious 'current affairs' stuff posted, it seems, more or less
constantly.  It probably doesn't get deleted at VfD, since there will be a
'public interest' defence.  It might get tweaked into some sort of rational
argument; my feeling is that this is about the best that can be hoped for -
e.g. showing that prejudices are irrational.  I rarely go near such things
myself, since it is hard to believe it is work of permanent value.

Charles


from_name: Viajero

body:
Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]?

The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some of the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in psuedo-objective style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to tackle this stuff?

I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure how.

V.


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Creeping 2.6 upgrades

body:
Moreri has been doing this super-high-load thing for a while. Having
nothing to lose, I've upgraded it to 2.6.

Before:
up 18 days, 23:42,  1 user,  load average: 48.34, 74.74, 100.16

After:
up 25 min,  2 users,  load average: 1.08, 1.36, 0.86

:)

It's running 2.6.6-1.376smp, from rawhide packages. I don't forsee any
real problems, so will probably upgrade the rest of the web boxes like
we have the others soon.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW

body:
Samuel Kennedy wrote:
> I have also noticed slowness!
>
> I'm sure the loyal housekeepers are taking care of it.

A couple of the web servers were mysteriously bogging down. I've started
transitioning them to the Linux 2.6 kernel, which handles process
scheduling better, and they seem to have cleared up.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Sheldon Rampton

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Re: w to properly use articles from an outside GFDL
	source?

body:
David Gerard wrote:

>I want to do some Wikipedia articles based on Disinfopedia articles.
>They're GFDL. But what is the proper way to carry over authorship
>information? Cut'n'paste the Disinfopedia page history (they use
>MediaWiki too) to the Talk page? Acknowledgement link at the bottom
>of the page, as we use for FOLDOC or Jargon File-based articles?

When  I use material from the Wikipedia in the Disinfopedia, I put in
a line of attribution at the bottom of the article. For example,
Disinfopedia's [[Richard A. Clarke]] article includes the following
line at the bottom, with links back to Wikipedia article:

>Note: A version of this article also appears in the Wikipedia.

If you want to do something similar when moving Disinfopedia material
into the Wikipedia, it would be appreciated but isn't obligatory.
It's not like we're in a position to sue over it.

--Sheldon Rampton


body:
>  The US perception towards France
> is important both culturally (the perception of French as snooty and
> aristocratic, and Parisians as promiscuous), and, in the 20th century,
> politically.
>
> Of course, the article could almost certainly be improved.
>
> -Mark

Well, the apparent American inability to utter the phrase 'French
restaurant' without the prefix 'fancy' tells me something (about Americans);
as does my own compatriots' fixed prejudice that French food is about
'sauces' (seems to come from ordering 'steack poivre' in Calais and being
surprised by what arrives).  I wouldn't regard the latter as particularly
encyclopedic, though.

Charles


subject: [Wikipedia-l] New Wiki Translation

body:
jneden at bellsouth.net wrote:
> Help me out, here, please. I'd like to translate the Wiki interface
> into Cherokee. I am good with the Cherokee language, and I'm plugged
> into a community of fluent speakers who can always help.
>
> I've read over the tutorial, and I know where it is. Please help me
> by creating a Cherokee wiki, and I'll get going! ISO 639-2: chr

Great! We'll try to get this added soon; we're in the middle of some
upgrades so things are a little hectic on the server.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Samuel Kennedy

subject: [WikiEN-l] SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW

body:
I have also noticed slowness!

I'm sure the loyal housekeepers are taking care of it.

--samrolken

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick <giantsrick13 at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [WikiEN-l] SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>

WIkipedia is running agonizingly slowly today.  I'm having trouble
posting anything because it keeps timing out on me.  Am I alone in
this?

RickK

		________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year


body:
Delirium wrote:

> Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>> Viajero wrote:
>>
>>> Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French
>>> sentiment in the United States]]?
>>>
>>> The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some
>>> of the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in
>>> psuedo-objective style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to
>>> tackle this stuff?
>>> I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure
>>> how.
>>
>> Maybe just changing the title to [[Anti-French ignorance in the
>> United States]] might be enough. :-)
>
>
> Of course, then we might have to rename [[Anti-American sentiment]]
> similarly. =]
>
> FWIW, I think both the articles could use a bit of work, as they're
> both essentially listings of accusations, along the lines of "why some
> people think country [x] sucks", rather than actually having any sort
> of coherent narrative structure.

The direct parallel article should be [[Anti-American sentiment in
France]].  A bit of work is an understatement, and even if someone gave
you the time to do it it wouldn't last long.  I just looked at it again
and I see such things as "Anti-American sentiments have in the past been
strongly supported by Soviet propaganda ...and are promoted by dictators
who see the United States as a threat to their position."  That
defensive attitude misses the entire point.  The article is not about
Soviet propaganda or sundry petty dictators.  (For some of the latter
United States support may be the only thing that keeps them in their
position.)

I thought of making the change, but then I just thought "What's the
point? If I do it won't be long before somebody adds something stupid
again. I feel much better when I work on something to which the response
is in the form of constructive criticism."  I don't like being in that
position, because I know too that, tedious as it is to do so, these
bonehead POVs need to be confronted.  There are rational elements in the
American right, but the irrational and uninformed ones seem to be the
loudest.

If it were possible I would suggest banning Americans from any editing
at all on the Anti-American sentiment article.  It is after all
primarily about how others view Americans.  Americans could read it of
course; they should read it.  Maybe then they might start to understand
the extent of that sentiment, since the coming to power of the current
administration its depth.  And don't worry about such an article
becoming completely silly or trivial; that would be a positve sign that
foreign sentiments are improving.

Ec


body:
Rick wrote:

>172 has taken it upon himself to make this an anti-American screed, and has gone so far as to make multiple reverts in a 24 hour period, but no one will do anything about him, so I have given up.  Even when I pointed that out, I was told, "Oh, he must not have done it intentionally."
>
>Let any article he works on be anti-American, which is his goal, because nobody will do anything about him.
>
That last statement is utter nonsense.  It's a long way from
anti-Americanism as a sentiment to anti-Americanism as a goal.  Your
imputation of motives is totally warranted.  You should apologize to him
for it.

Ec


body:
RickK wrote

>172 has taken it upon himself to make this an anti-American screed,

So I was surprised to find it nearly a week since he edited it, and that
nearly 40 edits have happened since then.

>and has gone so far as to make multiple reverts in a 24 hour period, but no
one will do anything about him, so I have given up.  Even when I pointed
that out, I was told, "Oh, he must not have done it intentionally."

>Let any article he works on be anti-American, which is his goal, because
nobody will do anything about him.

Well now, I don't think we should have anti-American POV in WP.  I think
'jingoism' is actually wrong, as used here.  You get chauvinism and
nationalism everywhere, at the extremes of sentiment, though - who is going
to deny that?  Jingoism assumes some willingness of Americans to go to war
with Chirac; which would imply partial deafness?

Charles


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Commons

body:
"Jimmy Wales" <jwales at bomis.com> schrieb:

> I'm not sure what you mean, but let me just say that it was not my
> intention to favor anything specific about Erik's proposal for a
> commons over other proposals that may have been put forward at various
> times.  I very much appreciate, Andre, all your incredibly
> contributions to the project and would regret it very much if
> something I said seemed to lack respect for you and your ideas.  That
> was not my intention at all.

It wasn't felt as such... As I said, I like Erik's ideas. If it seemed
anything else, then my apologies as well. I guess I had just some
irritation to get rid of.

We don't really disagree on the goals. There's some discussion between
us on what to include and what not, but nothing that I would feel too
unhappy to lose the discussion on, and I don't think this is different
for Erik. There is however a huge difference in the road we want to take
there.

Andre Engels


from_name: Ulrich Fuchs

body:
Am Sonntag, 23. Mai 2004 21:23 schrieb Jimmy Wales:
> Danny (daniwo) will be attending on my behalf.

That's fine - I just wanted to be sure that it's not forgotten!

Uli


from_name: jneden at bellsouth.net

subject: [Wikipedia-l] New Wiki Translation

body:
Hi guys

Help me out, here, please. I'd like to translate the Wiki interface into Cherokee. I am good with the Cherokee language, and I'm plugged into a community of fluent speakers who can always help.

I've read over the tutorial, and I know where it is. Please help me by creating a Cherokee wiki, and I'll get going.

Thanks,
Jeremy

BTW, the native Cherokee name for the Cherokee language is "Tsalagi." :) Try that. Thanks again!


subject: [Wikipedia-l] New Wiki Translation

body:
Hi guys

Help me out, here, please. I'd like to translate the Wiki interface into Cherokee. I am good with the Cherokee language, and I'm plugged into a community of fluent speakers who can always help.

I've read over the tutorial, and I know where it is. Please help me by creating a Cherokee wiki, and I'll get going! ISO 639-2: chr

Thanks,
Jeremy

BTW, the native Cherokee name for the Cherokee language is "Tsalagi." :) Try that. Thanks again!


subject: [Wikitech-l] Creeping 2.6 upgrades

body:
Ricky Beam wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2004, Brion Vibber wrote:
>>It's running 2.6.6-1.376smp, from rawhide packages.
>
> How many times do I have to tell you people to build your own d*** kernel
> and stop using the junk from the distribution (esp. redhat.)???

I don't suppose you have any actual useful information to give about the
actual set of kernel config options that will get DMA working on our
machines, do you? Believe it or not, *it doesn't matter* who compiled
the kernel if it doesn't have the right driver in it.

If all you've got is "Red Hat sux0rz", please do us a favor and don't post.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Ricky Beam

subject: [Wikitech-l] Creeping 2.6 upgrades

body:
On Sun, 23 May 2004, Brion Vibber wrote:
>It's running 2.6.6-1.376smp, from rawhide packages.

How many times do I have to tell you people to build your own d*** kernel
and stop using the junk from the distribution (esp. redhat.)???

(On y'all's :-) hardware, it should take less than 10min to build everything
 you actually need.  It takes me 25min and I build everything.)

--Ricky


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Wikitech-l] Subpages don't work on Meta's content pages

body:
Please turn subpage functionality on Meta back on.

This page:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_PayPal_donations_for_2003

is broken due to the lack of subpage functionality.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


subject: [Wikitech-l] mediawiki 1,3

body:
Hi,

I know it is a lot of work and stress for some of you, so I hardly dare
asking this.
Wikipedia will be presented (with a demo of the website), on tuesday,
during a meeting in Lyon. It will likely be tuesday morning or beginning
of afternoon, France time.
Please, do the best you can so that at least either the french
(preferably) or the english wikipedia works at that time, so that we can
show a successful website, rather than a non accessible one.

Thanks in advance

Ant


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Community Day in Berlin

body:
On June 13, 2004 - one day after the "Wikipedia and Friends" panel at the
Wizards of OS conference, see http://www.wizards-of-os.org - there will be
a Wikipedia/Wikimedia community meeting in Room H2033 of the Technical
University Berlin (main building at Ernst-Reuter-Platz/Stra?e des 17.
Juni). See

http://www.tu-berlin.de/eng/about_tu/anreise.htm

for more information on how to get there. There are over 60 seats.

This will be an opportunity to meet Wikipedians from Germany, Europe, the
United States and elsewhere, including Jimmy Wales. It will also give us
eight hours or more to discuss issues of importance to Wikipedia and the
Wikimedia Foundation.

One primary concern for the German Wikipedians is the setup of a German
daughter organization of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. The formalities of
this process will be discussed.

The results of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees election, closed
on Saturday, will be officially announced. The meeting can also be used to
discuss Wikipedia's internal policies, those of our sister projects like
Wikibooks and Wiktionary, possible future projects for the Wikimedia
Foundation, effective fundraising, quality control mechanisms, and the
print edition.

A tentative agenda is being developed at
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Community_Day

This page will be translated into English as soon as it has reached a
stable state. If you don't speak German you can already register yourself
and suggest issues to discuss on the talk page ("Diskussion" link). If
there's enough international interest we can move the whole thing to Meta
and continue to develop it there.

I'm looking forward to meeting everyone who will come.

Regards,

Erik


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Community Day in Berlin


from_name: Jimmy Wales

body:
Sheldon Rampton wrote:
> >I want to do some Wikipedia articles based on Disinfopedia articles.
> >They're GFDL. But what is the proper way to carry over authorship
> >information? Cut'n'paste the Disinfopedia page history (they use
> >MediaWiki too) to the Talk page? Acknowledgement link at the bottom
> >of the page, as we use for FOLDOC or Jargon File-based articles?
>
> When  I use material from the Wikipedia in the Disinfopedia, I put in
> a line of attribution at the bottom of the article. For example,
> Disinfopedia's [[Richard A. Clarke]] article includes the following
> line at the bottom, with links back to Wikipedia article:

Not long ago, I did one of my very rare edits and changed the article
on the [[Cato Institute]].  (Someone from Cato wrote to me about a
factual error.)  I found a lot of good information at Disinfopedia,
and I copied some of it in -- I credited in Disinfopedia in the
comment field, but that's all I did.

I regard this as one of the main problems with the current version of
the GNU FDL, i.e. that friendly copying of small bits of text between
different GNU FDL texts is needlessly complicated in a wiki context
where everyone is perfectly happy with such copying.

In the case of Disinfopedia, which is clearly a friend project to
ours, there's no real issue with some degree of casual borrowing back
and forth where appropriate.  After all, Sheldon isn't going to sue us
for using a few paragraphs from his site, and vice-versa.

But in the general case, it would be much better if the license
specifically allowed for genorous "fair-use-style" copying, so that
people could do this sort of thing without having to worry.

--Jimbo


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Webby awards

body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
> 3.  I do not know the time frame for ordering this stuff, but I
> will find out.

Orders must be received by June 11th.  That is, that's when they need
to receive them.  Due to my own time constraints (leaving for Europe
next week), I need firm commitments by Thursday midnight at the latest,
i.e. I will be making the order on Friday.

--Jimbo


body:
Regarding Klingon, I have no objections to it.

I guess when it comes right down to it what I mainly want is that we
have some external objective way to determine the difference between a
language and a vanity project.  I don't particularly care what
official list we use.

--Jimbo


from_name: Thomas R. Koll

subject: [Foundation-l] Finding Ways to Raise Funds

body:
On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 01:17:12PM +1000, Suzanne Giraud wrote:
> Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

Wikimedia, Wikipedia, Wiktionary. Anything but Tiki!!!

> I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
> I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.

We had discussions on that earlier, maybe you should search mail.wikipeida.org
for it. The resonnance was that we won't pay anyone for raising funds.

> Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels),

The only one with the name I found in Wikipedia was John Dennis Daniels,
executed November 2003 for murder.
BTW: 'most of your site's content' is not possible.

ciao, tom
--
== Weblinks ==
* http://www.tomk32.de - just a geek trying to change the world
* http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:TomK32 - Free Knowledge
* http://tinyurl.com/27c88 - WikiReader Internet: bald im Druck
* http://tomk32.bookcrossing.com - Free Books


from_name: Christopher Mahan

body:
--- Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the translation Chris.

np

> Even if Paris is delicious, beautiful and quiet in
> summer :-)

indeed :)

=====
Christopher Mahan
chris_mahan at yahoo.com
818.943.1850 cell
http://www.christophermahan.com/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


subject: [Foundation-l] Project Proposal: GlobalFamilyTree

body:
--- Joel Konkle-Parker <jjk3 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> This is just to direct everyone's attention to my new project proposal:
> GlobalFamilyTree <http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFamilyTree>.
>
> It's goal would be to create a worldwide user-editable genealogy database.
> More
> details are on the wiki page.

I've already proposed that at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimorial .

The idea is to simply expand the focus of the the Sep11wiki (which is a rather
lonely place).

The only major stumbling block was the name - some people didn't like
'Wikimorial'. Other ideas were:
*Wikimedia Memorial (generic and boring, IMO),
*Wikipeople (I liked this one so I bought the domain names),
*Wikifamily (another one I liked - although in the U.S. right-wing Christian
fundamentalists have co-opted the word "family").

Any other ideas?

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]

body:
I had very few edit wars on Wikipedia in more than 2 years.
Basically, I went in edit war over the Gaia articles with RK, and with a
Fat Buddha on this one :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States

I decided not to touch it again, because I thought it was a hopeless
article. I mentionned how bad it was on this very list, more than a year
ago, and other french people asked with me, that some people work on it,
to straighten it a bit. But as Eclecticology would say, it is not to
french people to edit it, since it is about the way American people see us.

 From time to time, I go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism

And I wonder why the one about anti-americanism is such a bland article,
when the one about us is crap. I invite neutral editors to compare both
articles.

I see that article, as a perfect example of what Wikipedia should *not* be.
And after more than a year it being crap, I have doubts in the process.

The first paragraph is particularly impressive. It is a collection of
opinions, none of which are attributed. It does not explain anything. It
is a set of "some people think", "it is said that", "one could also say
that". This article is not really informative. It does not explain the
origin of these feelings. I hardly dare mention the title of this
paragraph. It does not quantify disapproval either. In short, it fails
its goal which is to describe and give information to understand why
there is such a feeling.

However, there is one thing this article is very good at. It is the
perfect article to raise anger, or even *hate* from French people. While
I do not think that American would feel angered by the article on
anti-americanism as it is right now. And I do not think Wikipedia should
aim at raising "hate" feelings.

Viajero a ?crit:
> Is any one else bothered by the current state of [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]?
>
> The article now presents a set of "accusations" which include some of the worst, most tasteless clich?s, all presented in psuedo-objective style. Would anyone with a strong stomach care to tackle this stuff?
>
> I think Wikipedia should do better than this but I am not quite sure how.
>
>
> V.


from_name: KNOTT, T

subject: [WikiEN-l] Theresa Knott Vs. Mr. Natural Health

body:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: N.T. Riche [mailto:vonriche at yahoo.com]
>Could you please point me to some of these attacks (by iris only because I'm aware of Lir's).

You're kidding right? Don't worry, as soon as the AC accepts irismeisters case I'll post plenty of them to the evidence page. In the meantime I suggest you read the iridology talk page, my talk page (you'll have to check the history as I usually delete on site) and the AM talk page. Go over the archives as well.

?
>The real reason Knott I agreed with MNH is because I'm being pressured into it by Iris and Lir
>(although lir is not editing anymore he contacts me a lot on aim).

Well that's a very noble reason for agreeing with someone, I must say. You don't have a will of your own?
?
>Yes I am aware that MNH is a Pov pusher BUT A.M. needs to merely be re-worded not to have large sections removed.

I haven't removed large sections. All I'm trying to do is whip AM into shape as a well written NPOV article. I do remove irrelevant stuff, I make no apologies for this. I do add stuff as well. If you think you can do a better job of NPOVing an article against MNH's POV pushing then why don't you have a go?

>Please join the irc channal, i know your bedtime may be different from mine but im from vegas anyway and im usually up at?3 am PST, which is 11?am?your time.

11am I'm at work. Plus to be honest I don't trust you. You seem like you are working for peace, yet you are allowing yourself to be pressured by Lir and irismeister (Lir! For crying out loud! Surely you can stand up to her!) And you haven't bothered to cite instances where I supposedly made personal attacks, despite my asking you to. So if it's all the same to you, I'd rather use talk pages, where everything is kept for the record, and no one can accuse me of saying something I didn't.

Theresa


body:
--- Nathaniel Krause <nathanielkrause at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Sheldon Rampton wrote:
> >
> >When  I use material from the Wikipedia in the Disinfopedia, I put in
> >a line of attribution at the bottom of the article. For example,
> >Disinfopedia's [[Richard A. Clarke]] article includes the following
> >line at the bottom, with links back to Wikipedia article:
> >
> > >Note: A version of this article also appears in the Wikipedia.
> >
> >If you want to do something similar when moving Disinfopedia material
> >into the Wikipedia, it would be appreciated but isn't obligatory.
> >It's not like we're in a position to sue over it.
>
> Hmmmm, I hadn't thought of that.  I've imported several Disinfopedia
> articles and had plans for a couple more.  I think it's good for us to pool
> our efforts where applicable.  I'll go back and add an attribution for
> Disinfopedia.  I figure I can just put that under ==References== at the end,
> right?

Attribution is good. And the ==References== section is the natural place to put
info like that.

--mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


from_name: Nathaniel Krause

body:
>Sheldon Rampton wrote:
>
>When  I use material from the Wikipedia in the Disinfopedia, I put in
>a line of attribution at the bottom of the article. For example,
>Disinfopedia's [[Richard A. Clarke]] article includes the following
>line at the bottom, with links back to Wikipedia article:
>
> >Note: A version of this article also appears in the Wikipedia.
>
>If you want to do something similar when moving Disinfopedia material
>into the Wikipedia, it would be appreciated but isn't obligatory.
>It's not like we're in a position to sue over it.

Hmmmm, I hadn't thought of that.  I've imported several Disinfopedia
articles and had plans for a couple more.  I think it's good for us to pool
our efforts where applicable.  I'll go back and add an attribution for
Disinfopedia.  I figure I can just put that under ==References== at the end,
right?

Nat Krause (the eponymous user)

_________________________________________________________________
Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball
Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/


body:
Anthere wrote

> I see that article, as a perfect example of what Wikipedia should *not*
be.

Having lived for a year in Paris, and a year in Boston, I find do it very
depressing.

Charles


body:
--- Jimmy Wales <jwales at bomis.com> wrote:
> ...
> But in the general case, it would be much better if the license
> specifically allowed for genorous "fair-use-style" copying, so that
> people could do this sort of thing without having to worry.

What we really need is a GNU FDL 2.0 with a clause stating something to the
effect of "Any documents licensed under the GNU FDL 2.0 or any later version
with no Invariant Sections, with no Front-Cover Texts, and with no Back-Cover
Texts can also be licensed under the GNU Free Content License."

The GNU Free Content License would in turn be made to be compatible with a
future version of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-alike License and
would have no provision for the evil Invariant Sections, Front-Cover Texts, or
Back-Cover Texts (although those could still be added by transferring FCL
content back to the FDL, but once that is done, that version would be locked
into the FDL).

If we had a hand in drafting the GNU FCL, then we could ensure that it could be
friendly to all content and more lax in what needs to be done in order to
comply (requiring pretty much what we require for compliance - which happens to
be a *very* liberal interpretation of the GNU FDL in order to make is practical
for people to copy us).

The GNU FDL is a complicated mess. The sooner we can be free of it, the better.
IMO.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


from_name: Ivan Krstic

subject: [Wikitech-l] Creeping 2.6 upgrades

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> I don't suppose you have any actual useful information to give about the
> actual set of kernel config options that will get DMA working on our
> machines, do you? Believe it or not, *it doesn't matter* who compiled
> the kernel if it doesn't have the right driver in it.

He has a generally valid point that slimmer, non-generic kernels are a
good idea on production systems. As for DMA, has anyone tried
recompiling a few times and seeing if they can hit the right options? Is
there a non-production machine where this experimentation can be done
without danger?

I run a (1+5)x100GB RAID5 storage server, and when first installing it,
couldn't get DMA to work for the life of me. I ended up writing a quick
kernel hack to make it work on my system, and I think the situation was
fixed a few kernel releases later. If you need me to look at the
machines and see what I can do, let me know.

Cheers,
Ivan.


from_name: Joel Konkle-Parker

body:
This is just to direct everyone's attention to my new project proposal:
GlobalFamilyTree <http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFamilyTree>.

It's goal would be to create a worldwide user-editable genealogy database. More
details are on the wiki page.

--
Joel Konkle-Parker
Webmaster  [Ballsome.com]

E-mail     [jjk3 at msstate.edu]
Phone      [662-518-1636]


body:
--- Joel Konkle-Parker <jjk3 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> Quoting Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com>:
> > I've already proposed that at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimorial .
> >
> > The idea is to simply expand the focus of the the Sep11wiki (which is a
> > rather
> > lonely place).
> >
> > The only major stumbling block was the name - some people didn't like
> > 'Wikimorial'. Other ideas were:
> > *Wikimedia Memorial (generic and boring, IMO),
> > *Wikipeople (I liked this one so I bought the domain names),
> > *Wikifamily (another one I liked - although in the U.S. right-wing
> Christian
> > fundamentalists have co-opted the word "family").
>
> Well, I guess I missed that one. It sounds like our end goal is the same, but
> for different reasons. Your description and name (Wikimorial) implies a
> memorial/obituary/mourning project, more than a living global genealogy. But
> perhaps this is not the case?

It would be both. There would be individual pages on individual people and
there also would be memorial pages that list people who died in some
disaster/military assault/terrorist act/industrial accident/whatever. The
"memorial"-type names were just an emphasis on that aspect.

I would also like to see actual family trees constructed on family name pages.
There is a wiki syntax to do this that is being developed.

> What I had in mind was a living genealogy reference, not so much
> memorializing
> the past, but serving as a reference guide to those curious about their
> ancestors. This goal wouldn't require a ban on content for the living, either
> (I'd be interested in looking up my uncle and seeing "So-and-so is a
> consultant
> for Whatchamathingy Inc.).

I fear that having pages on the living would cause the creation of vanity pages
and the use of Wikimedia resources for personal webpages. At least at first, I
would like to ban any articles about any person still living. That still leaves
billions of articles to write. If and when this project reaches critical mass
and has a 24/7 user community watching the place, then we can talk about
expanding the focus to include the living.

> But I agree that these projects can be merged without too much lost. As for
> the
> name, I like "Wikipeople", "GlobalFamilyTree", "Wikialogy"(?),
> "Ancestors"(?).

Of those, I like Wikipeople the best.

--mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
Delirium wrote:

> Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>> If it were possible I would suggest banning Americans from any
>> editing at all on the Anti-American sentiment article.  It is after
>> all primarily about how others view Americans.  Americans could read
>> it of course; they should read it.  Maybe then they might start to
>> understand the extent of that sentiment, and, since the coming to
>> power of the current administration, its depth.  And don't worry
>> about such an article becoming completely silly or trivial; that
>> would be a positve sign that foreign sentiments are improving.
>
> Ah, but by that logic we would have to ban non-Americans from editing
> [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]].  It is after all
> primarily about how Americans view the French, so clearly only an
> American could understand the extent of that sentiment, eh?

Certainly!

One of the clearest descriptions of the United States system was written
by a Frenchman, de Tocqueville.

Ec


body:
--- David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
>...
> Is there a way to make a {{msg:disinfopedia}} that would automatically link
> to the article of the same name on Disinfopedia? That would be a lot easier
> hence more widely used.

I hear that the new template namespace for MediaWiki 1.3 can take variables. It
would be neat if a {{PAGENAME}} variable (with spaces replaced by underscores)
were created and used as such a variable. But that will only work if the
Wikipedia article and the Disinfopedia article both have the same name.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


from_name: Toby Bartels

body:
Mav (Daniel Mayer) wrote:

>Joel Konkle-Parker wrote:

>>What I had in mind was a living genealogy reference, not so much memorializing
>>the past, but serving as a reference guide to those curious about their
>>ancestors. This goal wouldn't require a ban on content for the living, either
>>(I'd be interested in looking up my uncle and seeing "So-and-so is a consultant
>>for Whatchamathingy Inc.).

>I fear that having pages on the living would cause the creation of vanity pages
>and the use of Wikimedia resources for personal webpages. At least at first, I
>would like to ban any articles about any person still living. That still leaves
>billions of articles to write. If and when this project reaches critical mass
>and has a 24/7 user community watching the place, then we can talk about
>expanding the focus to include the living.

The format being discussed on Joel's meta page would work for the living,
since there's no room for much vanity -- not even a space for Whatchamathingy.
If we require that every page contain a link to another extant page,
then even the vain people must put in their parents or siblings --
and at that point, we're building the global family tree that Joel wants.

There is a problem with verifiability, the usual problem with vanity pages.
But of course, restricting to dead people doesn't help with that.
I suspect that we'll have to accept that either Wikimemorial or Wikipeople
will contain falsehoods that are never corrected.

>>But I agree that these projects can be merged without too much lost. As for the
>>name, I like "Wikipeople", "GlobalFamilyTree", "Wikialogy"(?), "Ancestors"(?).

>Of those, I like Wikipeople the best.

Me too!

Although in my mind, as I consider this idea, I'm somewhat distinguishing
"Wikimemorial" (mav's plan, only dead people, format like [[sep11:]])
from "Wikipeople" (Joel's plan, with living people, format like his meta page).

-- Toby


body:
Quoting Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com>:
> I've already proposed that at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimorial .
>
> The idea is to simply expand the focus of the the Sep11wiki (which is a
> rather
> lonely place).
>
> The only major stumbling block was the name - some people didn't like
> 'Wikimorial'. Other ideas were:
> *Wikimedia Memorial (generic and boring, IMO),
> *Wikipeople (I liked this one so I bought the domain names),
> *Wikifamily (another one I liked - although in the U.S. right-wing Christian
> fundamentalists have co-opted the word "family").

Well, I guess I missed that one. It sounds like our end goal is the same, but
for different reasons. Your description and name (Wikimorial) implies a
memorial/obituary/mourning project, more than a living global genealogy. But
perhaps this is not the case?

What I had in mind was a living genealogy reference, not so much memorializing
the past, but serving as a reference guide to those curious about their
ancestors. This goal wouldn't require a ban on content for the living, either
(I'd be interested in looking up my uncle and seeing "So-and-so is a consultant
for Whatchamathingy Inc.).

But I agree that these projects can be merged without too much lost. As for the
name, I like "Wikipeople", "GlobalFamilyTree", "Wikialogy"(?), "Ancestors"(?).

--
Joel Konkle-Parker
Webmaster  [Ballsome.com]

E-mail     [jjk3 at msstate.edu]
Phone      [662-518-1636]


from_name: Evan Prodromou

subject: [Wikitech-l] mediawiki 1,3

body:
>>>>> "A" == Anthere  <anthere9 at yahoo.com> writes:

    A> Hi, I know it is a lot of work and stress for some of you, so I
    A> hardly dare asking this.  Wikipedia will be presented (with a
    A> demo of the website), on tuesday, during a meeting in Lyon. It
    A> will likely be tuesday morning or beginning of afternoon,
    A> France time.  Please, do the best you can so that at least
    A> either the french (preferably) or the english wikipedia works
    A> at that time, so that we can show a successful website, rather
    A> than a non accessible one.

Have you thought about setting up a local mirror to use for the
presentation?

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://wikitravel.org/en/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Creeping 2.6 upgrades

body:
Ivan Krstic wrote:
> He has a generally valid point that slimmer, non-generic kernels are a
> good idea on production systems.

It's not a bad idea, but waving it around like it will cure cancer is
pretty useless.

> As for DMA, has anyone tried
> recompiling a few times and seeing if they can hit the right options? Is
> there a non-production machine where this experimentation can be done
> without danger?

Yes, I've tried recompiling 2.6.6 on curly without success so far (that
was a week or so ago).

I wrote to Silicon Mechanics to see if they've got any info, and they
claim that:

 > If you upgrade the kernel to at least 2.4.20-28.9 (this is what I tested
 > with) DMA will be enabled by default with the default BIOS controller
 > settings.  I highly recommend doing this anyway because there are a
 > number of local root exploits in all but a few of the very latest
kernels.

Unfortunately that doesn't help much since it *doesn't* work on a shiny
new 2.6.6 kernel so far as I've been able to determine (either custom
compiled or from Red Hat). Of course if the BIOS settings *aren't* the
default, how are we to know? I asked them what might need to be changed,
I'll ask for more details...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Suzanne Giraud

body:
Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Over the past 29 months I have been using and testing a VoIP Communications system which this month will see the distribution of our most powerful version being released, at no extra cost to exisiting customers.  We are now supplying Madison Dynamics' iCONcommunicator to many online Businesses and Learning Institutions, globally.

Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels), I realised that our state-of-the-art VoIP systems would not only enhance your global interaction and communication with (and between) your communities, it is already proving a very lucrative fund-raising solution to non-profit organisations, worldwide.

I would be honoured to meet with you on-line to demonstrate the power of the iCONcommunicator to your members - and expand on how it is offering very lucrative funding solutions around the globe.

Expect to be amazed!

Yours respectfully,

Suzanne Giraud
suzie5xxg at yahoo.com.au
29 Horseshoe Road
Terranora  NSW  2486
Australia
+61 7 5590 4035
http://www.VoIPGoldCoast.com

---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/attachments/20040524/6bc73f76/attachment.htm


body:
Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Over the past 29 months I have been using and testing a VoIP Communications system which this month will see the distribution of our most powerful version being released, at no extra cost to exisiting customers.  We are now supplying Madison Dynamics' iCONcommunicator to many online Businesses and Learning Institutions, globally.

Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels), I realised that our state-of-the-art VoIP systems would not only enhance your global interaction and communication with (and between) your communities, it is already proving a very lucrative fund-raising solution to non-profit organisations, worldwide.

I would be honoured to meet with you on-line to demonstrate the power of the iCONcommunicator to your members - and expand on how it is offering very lucrative funding solutions around the globe.

Expect to be amazed!

Yours respectfully,

Suzanne Giraud
suzie5xxg at yahoo.com.au
29 Horseshoe Road
Terranora  NSW  2486
Australia
+61 7 5590 4035
http://www.VoIPGoldCoast.com

---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/attachments/20040524/6bc73f76/attachment-0001.htm


body:
Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Over the past 29 months I have been using and testing a VoIP Communications system which this month will see the distribution of our most powerful version being released, at no extra cost to exisiting customers.  We are now supplying Madison Dynamics' iCONcommunicator to many online Businesses and Learning Institutions, globally.

Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels), I realised that our state-of-the-art VoIP systems would not only enhance your global interaction and communication with (and between) your communities, it is already proving a very lucrative fund-raising solution to non-profit organisations, worldwide.

I would be honoured to meet with you on-line to demonstrate the power of the iCONcommunicator to your members - and expand on how it is offering very lucrative funding solutions around the globe.

Expect to be amazed!

Yours respectfully,

Suzanne Giraud
suzie5xxg at yahoo.com.au
29 Horseshoe Road
Terranora  NSW  2486
Australia
+61 7 5590 4035
http://www.VoIPGoldCoast.com

---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/attachments/20040524/6bc73f76/attachment-0002.htm


body:
Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Over the past 29 months I have been using and testing a VoIP Communications system which this month will see the distribution of our most powerful version being released, at no extra cost to exisiting customers.  We are now supplying Madison Dynamics' iCONcommunicator to many online Businesses and Learning Institutions, globally.

Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels), I realised that our state-of-the-art VoIP systems would not only enhance your global interaction and communication with (and between) your communities, it is already proving a very lucrative fund-raising solution to non-profit organisations, worldwide.

I would be honoured to meet with you on-line to demonstrate the power of the iCONcommunicator to your members - and expand on how it is offering very lucrative funding solutions around the globe.

Expect to be amazed!

Yours respectfully,

Suzanne Giraud
suzie5xxg at yahoo.com.au
29 Horseshoe Road
Terranora  NSW  2486
Australia
+61 7 5590 4035
http://www.VoIPGoldCoast.com

---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/attachments/20040524/6bc73f76/attachment.html>


body:
Dear Members of the Tiki Community,

I am looking to forge business relationships with Institutions and Non-Profit Organisations such as yours.
I came across your Wiki website while searching for 'VoIP' on Google and believe that our product will be of benefit when looking for ways to raise funds - globally.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Over the past 29 months I have been using and testing a VoIP Communications system which this month will see the distribution of our most powerful version being released, at no extra cost to exisiting customers.  We are now supplying Madison Dynamics' iCONcommunicator to many online Businesses and Learning Institutions, globally.

Having read through most of your site's content, as well as one of your members' sites (Dennis Daniels), I realised that our state-of-the-art VoIP systems would not only enhance your global interaction and communication with (and between) your communities, it is already proving a very lucrative fund-raising solution to non-profit organisations, worldwide.

I would be honoured to meet with you on-line to demonstrate the power of the iCONcommunicator to your members - and expand on how it is offering very lucrative funding solutions around the globe.

Expect to be amazed!

Yours respectfully,

Suzanne Giraud
suzie5xxg at yahoo.com.au
29 Horseshoe Road
Terranora  NSW  2486
Australia
+61 7 5590 4035
http://www.VoIPGoldCoast.com

---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/attachments/20040524/6bc73f76/attachment-0001.html>


from_name: Delirium

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> If it were possible I would suggest banning Americans from any editing
> at all on the Anti-American sentiment article.  It is after all
> primarily about how others view Americans.  Americans could read it of
> course; they should read it.  Maybe then they might start to
> understand the extent of that sentiment, since the coming to power of
> the current administration its depth.  And don't worry about such an
> article becoming completely silly or trivial; that would be a positve
> sign that foreign sentiments are improving.

Ah, but by that logic we would have to ban non-Americans from editing
[[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]].  It is after all
primarily about how Americans view the French, so clearly only an
American could understand the extent of that sentiment, eh?

-Mark


body:
--- Joel Konkle-Parker <jjk3 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> It sounds like this is worth pursuing. Shall I continue to discuss this here,
> or
> go over to the wiki page?

The wiki pages on Meta. We should also merge your idea and mine to create
[[Wikipeople]] on meta.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/


body:
Quoting Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com>:

> --- Joel Konkle-Parker <jjk3 at msstate.edu> wrote:
> > Quoting Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com>:
> > > I've already proposed that at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimorial .
> > >
> > > The idea is to simply expand the focus of the the Sep11wiki (which is a
> > > rather
> > > lonely place).
> > >
> > > The only major stumbling block was the name - some people didn't like
> > > 'Wikimorial'. Other ideas were:
> > > *Wikimedia Memorial (generic and boring, IMO),
> > > *Wikipeople (I liked this one so I bought the domain names),
> > > *Wikifamily (another one I liked - although in the U.S. right-wing
> > Christian
> > > fundamentalists have co-opted the word "family").
> >
> > Well, I guess I missed that one. It sounds like our end goal is the same,
> but
> > for different reasons. Your description and name (Wikimorial) implies a
> > memorial/obituary/mourning project, more than a living global genealogy.
> But
> > perhaps this is not the case?
>
> It would be both. There would be individual pages on individual people and
> there also would be memorial pages that list people who died in some
> disaster/military assault/terrorist act/industrial accident/whatever. The
> "memorial"-type names were just an emphasis on that aspect.
>
> I would also like to see actual family trees constructed on family name
> pages.
> There is a wiki syntax to do this that is being developed.

It sounds like this is worth pursuing. Shall I continue to discuss this here, or
go over to the wiki page?

--
Joel Konkle-Parker
Webmaster  [Ballsome.com]

E-mail     [jjk3 at msstate.edu]
Phone      [662-518-1636]


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re:Wikimedia Communs

body:
> Thank you for your support. I would like to again
invite all interested
> parties (especially developers, but also writers,
photographers etc.) to
> add themselves on the above page, so that we can
together move this
> project forward after MediaWiki 1.3 has reached a
stable state. As the
> above proposal states, I hope that we can also
implement single sign-on in
> one fell swoop with the Commons itself, which would
be one important step
> to bring the individual Wikimedia projects closer
together.

>I am still willing to help and aid in this project.
>However, as things
>look now, the only help I can offer you is to
>discontinue any plans I
>myself have in this direction until you are ready.

>One time there was just the English Wikipedia, then
>other languages
>were made. I have the feeling that I'm like someone
>wanting to set
>up another language and getting the answer that it's
a >good idea, but
>that in half a year there will be a new software with
>language links
>and the possibility to have an interface adaptable to
>languages, and
>I just wait for that.

>It's not that I don't like your plans. I do. And when
>the time
>comes, I'll join in. For now I'll just count my
>losses. And wonder
>why you might succeed and I do not. Is it because you
>are a
>developer and I'm not? Because your plans are grand
>and mine
>down-to-earth? Because I'm not brazen enough? Anyway,
>I lost.
>Again.

>Andre Engels

Andr?. Pause r?flexion. Un vrai leader ?vite de
perp?tuellement marcher sur les pieds des autres. Il
leur laisse de la place pour s'exprimer, parfois m?me
il s'efface pour laisser les autres s'occuper d'un
projet qui leur tient ? coeur. Il ?vite de cr?er des
rancoeurs :-) Enfin, juste ma triste opinion. ant

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/


subject: [Foundation-l] Re:Wikimedia Communs


from_name: ZH Wikipedia

subject: [Wikipedia-l] How to change offensive usernames

body:
recently an user use an offensive username to post offensive aritcals
in Chinese Wikipedia, we hold a vote to force him to change his
username, and we gain a consensus of that, but the porblem is that how
can we change his name, our administrators have no privilege to use
SQL to do that. Who can give us help?


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Webby awards

body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
> The Webby awards are generally considered to be prestigious, and major
> web sites and companies appear to take them seriously.  In the past,
> there was a big awards ceremony in San Francisco, etc.
>
> But now it seems that the Webby organization may have fallen on hard
> financial times, because they no longer put on a ceremony, and -- get
> this part -- the statue is no longer given freely, but the winners
> are eligible to buy them, as well as to buy "frame ready" certificates
> for members of the team.

If I buy a certificate, will it have my name on it?

-- Tim Starling


body:
Thomas R. Koll wrote:

>On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 01:17:12PM +1000, Suzanne Giraud wrote:
>
>
>>Dear Members of the Tiki Community,
>>
>>
>
>Wikimedia, Wikipedia, Wiktionary. Anything but Tiki!!!
>
<snip>

>The only one with the name I found in Wikipedia was John Dennis Daniels,
>executed November 2003 for murder.
>BTW: 'most of your site's content' is not possible.
>
>ciao, tom
>
>
I think Suzanne has the wrong list, not the wrong names. There is a Tiki
user called Dennis Daniels:

http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-user_information.php?view_user=DennisDaniels

I know it's easy to get confused. TikiWiki is a content management
system written by people who think a wiki is a site using a simplified
HTML markup, and that a small collection of blogs, article pages and
polls that you need an account with email confirmation to contribute to
consitutes such a "wiki". Wikipedia on the other hand consists of half a
million pages that anyone can edit. They're so similar!

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Viajero

body:
Well, I bit the bullet and moved Accusations section to the Talk page. We'll see what happens...

On 05/24/04  at 05:15 AM, Jimmy Wales <jwales at bomis.com> said:

> I have no specific suggestions for the improvement of the article, other
> than more historical background and context, and less cataloguing of
> nonsense.

V.


from_name: N.T. Riche

body:
OK Theresa I'll use the Talk pages I do find some MNH's behavior "troubling" (I'm avoiding personal attacks) as well as yours. Maybe you two should go the Arbitration.

Now for thing Lir's real name is Adam he's guy. Also I do have a will of my own Michael chats with me a lot on aim and I don't listen to him. It's just Adam is a fellow socialist, and friend.

"KNOTT, T" <tknott at qcl.org.uk> wrote:

>-----Original Message-----
>From: N.T. Riche [mailto:vonriche at yahoo.com]
>Could you please point me to some of these attacks (by iris only because I'm aware of Lir's).

You're kidding right? Don't worry, as soon as the AC accepts irismeisters case I'll post plenty of them to the evidence page. In the meantime I suggest you read the iridology talk page, my talk page (you'll have to check the history as I usually delete on site) and the AM talk page. Go over the archives as well.

>The real reason Knott I agreed with MNH is because I'm being pressured into it by Iris and Lir
>(although lir is not editing anymore he contacts me a lot on aim).

Well that's a very noble reason for agreeing with someone, I must say. You don't have a will of your own?

>Yes I am aware that MNH is a Pov pusher BUT A.M. needs to merely be re-worded not to have large sections removed.

I haven't removed large sections. All I'm trying to do is whip AM into shape as a well written NPOV article. I do remove irrelevant stuff, I make no apologies for this. I do add stuff as well. If you think you can do a better job of NPOVing an article against MNH's POV pushing then why don't you have a go?

>Please join the irc channal, i know your bedtime may be different from mine but im from vegas anyway and im usually up at 3 am PST, which is 11 am your time.

11am I'm at work. Plus to be honest I don't trust you. You seem like you are working for peace, yet you are allowing yourself to be pressured by Lir and irismeister (Lir! For crying out loud! Surely you can stand up to her!) And you haven't bothered to cite instances where I supposedly made personal attacks, despite my asking you to. So if it's all the same to you, I'd rather use talk pages, where everything is kept for the record, and no one can accuse me of saying something I didn't.

Theresa

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/attachments/20040524/ee60bd51/attachment.htm