subject: [Wikipedia-l] Extension syntax discussion and vote

body:
Erik Moeller wrote:

>All,
>
>please participate on:
>
>http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax
>
>We are trying to develop a standardized syntax for extensions such as the
>LaTeX extension for mathematical formulas, the upcoming hieroglyphs
>extension, the SVG extension etc.
>
>There will be a brainstorming phase until April 4, after which we will
>vote on these different proposals.
>
>This will hopefully allow us to finally start working on a generalized
>extension interface.
>
I don't oppose this initiative, but I when I read the meta page I was
quick to realize that many of the proposals were beyond my
comprehension.  I would have a great deal of difficulty in arriving at
an informed vote.  I'm sure that I'm not alone in that observation.

Most of us in most subjects deal strictly with text, and a significant
number can manage the technology of uploading pictures.  The really
adventurous may be able to manage a simple HTML table.  Life should
remain as simple as possible for these people, and expanding
technological functions should not diminish their ability to contribute.

I nevertheless recognize that some subject areas require more
sophisticated approaches, and that these should be made available.  A
modularized approach may be productive.  A person interested in a
cartographic interface may not be interested in learning how to
represent mathematical formulas or musical notation.  Thus, learning one
of these extensions should be able to proceed without the need to learn
the others, even when there is significant overlap between two extensions.

Ec


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] Since when did Wikipedia become a "religion website"?

body:
Peter Jaros wrote:

> On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:31 PM, Rick wrote:
>
>> http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=6B26DA8F-DB8B-48B1-AECD-4E8387760B80
>>
>
>
> Whoa.  Has anyone responded to this yet?

It strikes me as though that would be a futile effort.  The reference
left me ROTFL.  Such errors are a fact of life in news articles.  When a
report is so much at odds with reality and with other reports it is
likely to have no effect.  Those who choose to visit us on the basis of
the reference in the article will soon see that the facts are quite
different.  The article does no real harm.

Ec


from_name: Peter Jaros

body:
On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:31 PM, Rick wrote:

> http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=6B26DA8F-DB8B
> -48B1-AECD-4E8387760B80

Whoa.  Has anyone responded to this yet?

Peter

                                  -- ---<>--- --
                        A house without walls cannot fall.
           Help build the world's largest encyclopedia at Wikipedia.org
                                  -- ---<>--- --


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Nicolas Weeger

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: WikiHiero is here !!

body:
> What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)?

IMO language-specific names are even worse.
Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of metaspace
name, granted), and it'll work fine.
Translating special keywords would require translating in case of copy/paste.

Just my 2 cents

> Aoineko

Ryo


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Erik Moeller

body:
All,

please participate on:

http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax

We are trying to develop a standardized syntax for extensions such as the
LaTeX extension for mathematical formulas, the upcoming hieroglyphs
extension, the SVG extension etc.

There will be a brainstorming phase until April 4, after which we will
vote on these different proposals.

This will hopefully allow us to finally start working on a generalized
extension interface.

Regards,

Erik


subject: [Wikitech-l] Extension syntax discussion and vote


from_name: Evan Prodromou

subject: [Wikitech-l] Postgres suport for MediaWiki

body:
>>>>> "MM" == Magnus Manske <magnus.manske at web.de> writes:

    MM> I suggest putting *all* current queries into a new MySQL PHP
    MM> class. A new database can then be added by "simply" rewriting
    MM> that class.

Why not use an existing database abstraction layer, like ADOdb?

    http://phplens.com/adodb/

Or ODBC (yes, it works for Linux), or SQLrelay? I dunno if it makes
sense to roll our own.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: meta and local wiki merge rc and watch list
	option

in_reply_to:
<c4665p$b32$2@sea.gmane.org> (timwi@gmx.net's message of "Sun,
	28 Mar 2004 10:33:25 +0100")

body:
>>>>> "T" == Timwi  <timwi at gmx.net> writes:

    T> Well, I have already mentioned several times in the past that,
    T> in the medium term, we should merge all the Wikipedias, or
    T> perhaps even all the Wikimedia projects, into one database, so
    T> that users can have *ONE* account, *ONE* watchlist and *ONE*
    T> set of preferences.

I agree. It also allows better author tracking for translations
between versions of a page, and would make maintenance a whole lot
easier. (I've only got three DBs to maintain, and that's a pain in the
butt already.) It'd also make sharing images and such much easier.

I think there are a number of issues:

  1) Marking articles with a language code. That's pretty
     straightforward, I think: add another column for the language
     code.

  2) Linking multiple articles that deal with the same subject but
     differ only by language. I think the current ILL mechanism works
     OK for now. At some point it might be good to reify this in the
     database, though.

  3) User interface language. I believe this can be determined from
     the browser headers, and we could have an override set in a
     cookie or a user preference.

  4) Choosing which version of an article to show. This is easy if the
     there's a version in the user's language

  5) Namespaces. The namespaces are translated internally to numbers,
     so this shouldn't be a big, big hassle, but there's some
     hairiness.

  6) Cultures. This is the really hard one. It'd be difficult to
     integrate the N Wikipedias into one. It's hard to do
     decision-making in multiple languages.

I think making the user's UI language and the language of the
currently displayed article _orthogonal_ is the key here. A Norwegian
speaker reading a French article should see the article text in
French, but the UI navitorial ("Edit this page") in Norwegian (or
whatever language they choose).

Anyways, this should probably get pushed to meta.w.o.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.2.2 release

body:
* Fixed an upgrade bug introduced in 1.2.1.
* Disabled $wgUseCategoryMagic, which feature is incomplete & broken

This should fix the problem with the recentchanges table that Tobin had
upgrading from 1.1.0.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Guillaume Blanchard

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: WikiHiero is here !!

body:
From: "Timwi"
> Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
>
> > math is just a word - [[!...%^$#%$#%]] is a string of random characters.
> > Guess which one is easier ?
>
> ... Sorry? Could you translate that into English for me? Where did I
> write "[[!...%^$#%$#%]]"?
>
> What are you referring to as "easier"? [!...!] is certainly easier to
> type than <math>...</math>, and no less easier to remember. "math" is
> just a word, yes, but "<math>...</math>" is more than just "math", and
> more than [!...!] too.

What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)?

Aoineko


body:
On Mar 28, 2004, at 14:06, Evan Prodromou wrote:
>>>>>> "MM" == Magnus Manske <magnus.manske at web.de> writes:
>
>     MM> I suggest putting *all* current queries into a new MySQL PHP
>     MM> class. A new database can then be added by "simply" rewriting
>     MM> that class.
>
> Why not use an existing database abstraction layer, like ADOdb?

I believe what Magnus is suggesting is abstracting the *queries*, not
the database's API, which we already do. For instance, where we now use
our existing roll-your-own database API layer to do something like:

   $ns = $title->getNamespace();
   $t = wfStrencode( $title->getDBkey() );
   $id = wfQuery( "SELECT cur_id FROM cur WHERE cur_namespace=$ns AND
cur_title='$t'", DB_READ );

we would do something like this:

   $id = $wgDatabase->getArticleId( $title );

where the database class would contain the actual SQL query. I'm not
sure to what extent this is necessary or desirable; my preference would
be to consider SQL to be our query abstraction layer already, and just
try harder than we do now to have well-factored code that keeps queries
contained in the classes that deal with that particular type of data.
Even now we do:

   $id = $title->getArticleId();

and keep the SQL for it tucked away in the Title object (or actually in
LinkCache).

For the most part, database-specific SQL should only be happening in
install and upgrade phases, or with more exotic features like full-text
search.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Nikola Smolenski

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: WikiHiero is here !!

body:
On Sunday 28 March 2004 15:14, Nicolas Weeger wrote:
> > What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific
> > names)?
>
> IMO language-specific names are even worse.
> Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of
> metaspace name, granted), and it'll work fine.
> Translating special keywords would require translating in case of
> copy/paste.

Not if any Wikipedia is able to use all keywords. I doubt that there will ever
be a clash.


from_name: Bernhard Naegele

body:
Hello,
there is also one scenario for which it can be also interesting to have
support to some other databases -->  this is when a WikiWiki is "only" part
of a hole system, where a different database is used for other purpose. It is
easier for an administrator to have only one database running, which fits to
the most important application......
Best regards,
Bernhard

Am Sonntag, 28. M?rz 2004 00:06 schrieb Neil Harris:
> Ivan Krstic wrote:
> >Hi Bernhard,
> >
> >it's very arguable what exactly is meant by "more professional".
> >Generally speaking, speed is MySQL's forte, and is also what MediaWiki
> >has a great need for (particularly with Wikipedia). The magazine
> >articles you've read were probably referring to some of the more
> >"enterprise" features (MySQL for a long time did not support
> >transactions, and replication was dubious at best) which MediaWiki
> >doesn't really need. I don't personally think there is much benefit in
> >letting the code use Postgres, but if you're willing to put in the
> >effort - hey, great, send a patch.
> >
> >As for the MediaWiki table structure, while I'm sure we can help with
> >problems you might encounter, it might be easier for you to install,
> >temporarily, MySQL on one of your machines. MySQL binaries are available
> >for a slew of operating systems and architectures, so it shouldn't take
> >very long.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Ivan
>
> I'm really pleased that Bernhard has stepped forward to offer to work on
> this. Thank you, Bernhard!
>
> I think the question of which database is best for Wikipedia is very
> much an open question; it's entirely possible that a database that is
> faster under a simple load because of simple uncomplicated code may be
> slower under a complex load, because of a lack of code to resolve
> complex concurrency issues.
>
> I don't know if that's true -- what I do know is that it would be very
> useful to be able to run MediaWiki on either, as this will
> * increase choice, particularly in the future
> * reduce dependence on the SQL idioms of any given DBMS: standards are
> good! * enable benchmarking to see which database  is most suitable for our
> current and predicted future loads.
>
> Certainly, in the near future, the Wikipedia DB will have "enterprise
> class" needs for resilience and scalability.
> In particular, thorough support for replication and snapshotting are
> likely to be important.
>
> -- Neil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [Mediawiki-l] MediaWiki 1.2.2 release

body:
I just want to take a second and say a big thank you to Brion for
doing such a great job with this release. You've handled these blips
really well.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: meta and local wiki merge rc and watch list option

body:
Ray Saintonge a ?crit:
> Timwi wrote:
>
>> Anthere wrote:
>>
>>> What about an option for the user to have a merge of rc of meta and
>>> one local wikipedia ?
>>>
>>> Same for [ watchlists ] ?
>>
>>
>> Well, I have already mentioned several times in the past that, in the
>> medium term, we should merge all the Wikipedias, or perhaps even all
>> the Wikimedia projects, into one database, so that users can have
>> *ONE* account, *ONE* watchlist and *ONE* set of preferences. Then it
>> would be a very small step to allow Recent Changes filtered by
>> project/language.
>
>
> As much as I support the idea of a unified log-in and account, I would
> be hesitant about having a unified database.  Of course any attempt to
> unify databases should not take place until all projects, including the
> English Wikipedia have been converted to Unicode.

Good luck ! :-)
After one week, there are still weirdies :-)

> I prefer to look at the watch lists separately, because each project
> tends to approach things differently.  Some people would indeed like to
> have combined watchlists, and they should have that option, but it
> should not be the default for everybody.

Option would be good. What I would see as great is in particular that we
could merge the local wikipedia with meta. But keep local wikipedias
separate from one another

> We should also be able to have different preferences.  I use different
> combinations of side-bars and skins as a way of knowing which project I
> happen to be in at any given time.
>
> Ec

Agreed. I do the same. It would be nice to have more choice in
preferences settings.


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [WikiEN-l] Should articles explain pronunciation?

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Should Wikipedia articles, in their first paragraph, explain the
> pronunciation of the word that is the article title?

Doesn't it depend on the context?  Some words are difficult to
pronounce, or commonly mispronounced ("Uranus"), so that it's
worthwhile to include it.  Other words ("United States") are not
difficult to pronounce and are not commonly mispronounced.

It'll be a judgment call in most cases, right?

> Also, what makes the pronunciation of Uranus more mention-worthy
> than that of, say, "planet"?

"Uranus" is commonly mispronounced, "planet" is not.  That strikes me
as being relevant to our editorial decisionmaking in cases like this.

--Jimbo


from_name: Rob Hooft

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> What about an option for the user to have a merge of rc of meta and
>> one local wikipedia ?
>>
>> Same for [ watchlists ] ?
>
>
> Well, I have already mentioned several times in the past that, in the
> medium term, we should merge all the Wikipedias, or perhaps even all the
> Wikimedia projects, into one database, so that users can have *ONE*
> account, *ONE* watchlist and *ONE* set of preferences. Then it would be
> a very small step to allow Recent Changes filtered by project/language.

Let me add *ONE* notification of "You have new messages".

Ro

--
Rob W.W. Hooft  ||  rob at hooft.net  ||  http://www.hooft.net/people/rob/


list: textbook-l

from_name: KNOTT, T

subject: [Textbook-l] bye for that time

body:
>My book is finished for that time, so I say thanks again and bye.

Congratulations on finishing your book

Theresa


from_name: Phil Boswell

subject: [Wikitech-l] CVS access for comments only

body:
The new [[m:Developer]] page talk about people initially contributing
patches here on the mailing list and only after some time being given
CVA access.

I don't consider myself up-to-speed enough in PHP to contribute actual
code, but I would like to help in documenting what's there.

What would be an appropriate forum for posting proposed comments?
--
Phil


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: I just deleted a page ...

body:
Michael Snow wrote:
> Just to let people know, Anthony DiPierro is now going around and
> reinstating the name, which we have generally avoided using so far, on
> Votes for deletion and Votes for undeletion.

That sounds discourteous to me.  Surely there is no pressing need to
use the name while we discuss how to handle the issue, is there?

--Jimbo


subject: [WikiEN-l] Root and Branch - it's the only way.

body:
Angela wrote:
>  --- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jheiskan at welho.com> wrote:
> >Please, let us invest the Mediation Committee with an
> >explicit power of binding referral to the Arbitration
> >Committee...
>
> I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
> mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
> resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
> mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
> any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
> whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
> mediation committee to make these referrals?

I agree with this completely.

--Jimbo


from_name: Terry L Howe

subject: [Wikitech-l] Wiki Navigation

body:
I have searched around and tried to find ways to better
navigate my wiki using MediaWiki and I didn't find much.
Maybe there is something I'm missing, but anyway, over
the weekend I hacked the code a little so it would do
this:

http://www.jeeptech.com/wiki/index.php/Transmission/Factory/AX-15

I generate the navigation based on the title.  This works
great for me since I just want to have a tree structure
to my site.

My implementation is not super clean, but it works.  What
are the chances of having something like this included or
hooks for user code to generate a top and bottom navigation
bar.  Perhaps there is a plan I'm not aware of.

--
Terry L. Howe
http://www.jeeptech.com/ http://www.tiptoprockracing.com/


body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:

>Angela wrote:
>
>> --- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jheiskan at welho.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Please, let us invest the Mediation Committee with an
>>>explicit power of binding referral to the Arbitration
>>>Committee...
>>>
>>I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
>>mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
>>resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
>>mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
>>any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
>>whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
>>mediation committee to make these referrals?
>>
>
>I agree with this completely.
>
Although I agree in principle, there is still a need to condider the
workload that the arbitrators have, and the amount of time that they
have to do it.

Ec


from_name: Theresa Robinson

body:
That's not happening anymore.  Anthony and I and a couple of others came
to an agreement not to post the name anywhere while the discussion happens
on a dedicated page: [[Talk:Kobe Bryant's accuser]].  Once I started
really implementing what I said I would he's been well-behaved.

moink

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Jimmy Wales wrote:

> Michael Snow wrote:
> > Just to let people know, Anthony DiPierro is now going around and
> > reinstating the name, which we have generally avoided using so far, on
> > Votes for deletion and Votes for undeletion.
>
> That sounds discourteous to me.  Surely there is no pressing need to
> use the name while we discuss how to handle the issue, is there?
>
> --Jimbo
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Rich Holton

body:
There is presently something very un-good about the
Extension Syntax page:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax

The current revision shows only a fraction of the
content, yet when I try to follow the revision history
it doesn't correspond with the current state.

There must be something rather dramatic wrong
somewhere...

-Rich Holton

--- Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> Erik Moeller wrote:
>
> >All,
> >
> >please participate on:
> >
> >http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax
> >
> >We are trying to develop a standardized syntax for
> extensions such as the
> >LaTeX extension for mathematical formulas, the
> upcoming hieroglyphs
> >extension, the SVG extension etc.
> >
> >There will be a brainstorming phase until April 4,
> after which we will
> >vote on these different proposals.
> >
> >This will hopefully allow us to finally start
> working on a generalized
> >extension interface.
> >
> I don't oppose this initiative, but I when I read
> the meta page I was
> quick to realize that many of the proposals were
> beyond my
> comprehension.  I would have a great deal of
> difficulty in arriving at
> an informed vote.  I'm sure that I'm not alone in
> that observation.
>
> Most of us in most subjects deal strictly with text,
> and a significant
> number can manage the technology of uploading
> pictures.  The really
> adventurous may be able to manage a simple HTML
> table.  Life should
> remain as simple as possible for these people, and
> expanding
> technological functions should not diminish their
> ability to contribute.
>
> I nevertheless recognize that some subject areas
> require more
> sophisticated approaches, and that these should be
> made available.  A
> modularized approach may be productive.  A person
> interested in a
> cartographic interface may not be interested in
> learning how to
> represent mathematical formulas or musical notation.
>  Thus, learning one
> of these extensions should be able to proceed
> without the need to learn
> the others, even when there is significant overlap
> between two extensions.
>
> Ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] wikimage startup?

body:
It has been discussed before, I think I want to go beyond discussion,
and get this thing rolling. I would like to start setting up a database
of public domain and copyleft images, using the Wikipedia technology.

Goal: Provide a source for public domain and copyleft images, in the
first place intended for Wikipedia, but of course also for use by any
other projects (in particular copyleft projects), whether connected
to Wikipedia or not.

For this, I would like to get Wikimedia set up at some url like
image.wikipedia.org for the time being; standard setup should be
changed in that the image-namespace would be in the standard search
options. Once this is done, it can be announced at Wikipedia etcetera,
and I hope I will get some others who would like to help getting this
to work.

Andre Engels


from_name: Magnus Manske

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2004, at 14:06, Evan Prodromou wrote:
>> Why not use an existing database abstraction layer, like ADOdb?
>
> I believe what Magnus is suggesting is abstracting the *queries*, not
> the database's API

Yup.

> , which we already do.

<snip>

>  my preference would
> be to consider SQL to be our query abstraction layer already, and just
> try harder than we do now to have well-factored code that keeps queries
> contained in the classes that deal with that particular type of data.

Putting all the queries into a single PHP class would have some
advantages, though. Just think of all the special pages; should we
really carry MySQL, Postgres and who-knows-what in every special page class?

Universal SQL would be a fine thing, but isn't the point of trying
another database to get more performance? That probably means to code
using the advantages of a specific database, while keeping clear of the
database-specific "problem zones".

Also, two database could be compared much better if we could just throw
a switch ( $db=new WikiMySQL; / $db=new WikiPostGres; ).

> Even now we do:
>
>   $id = $title->getArticleId();
>
> and keep the SQL for it tucked away in the Title object (or actually in
> LinkCache).

So, the method in Title is basically a wrapper for the method in
LinkCache. Why can't the latter (basically) be a wrapper for the method
in the database-specific class?

Magnus


subject: [Wikitech-l] Jason is back

body:
Jason is back from vacation, and I'll have him get us an update on
geoffrin tomorrow morning.  It should be well on the way by now, I
don't know.

--Jimbo


from_name: Daniel P.B.Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 67

body:
> On Mar 24, 2004, at 1:32 PM, David Speakman wrote:
>
>> As a venture capital journalist for the past seven years, I am
>> skeptical.
>> Traditional paper encyclopedia companies are going out of business.

Oh, you mean like the way print books have been put out of business by
eBooks like the Nuvomedia Rocket eBook, Softbook, Gemstar REB-1100,
Gemstar REB-1200, and the Franklin eBookman?

--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith at verizon.net alternate:
dpbsmith at alum.mit.edu
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/

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from_name: Marek Najmajer

subject: [Wikipedia-l] How to setup a new language edition: Cassubian

body:
Hi all,

Wikipedia needs a new language edition - Cassubian.
Cassubian is a regional language of northern Poland near the Baltic Sea.
It has some interesting literature, bible translation, some doctionaries.
There is nearly 200,000 Cassubians there but only 5,000 speak his language
on the daily basis.
To setup a language edition on Wikipedia can be good way to help promoting
the language and to protect it from extinction.

Best regards,
Marqoz
Gdansk, Poland


from_name: Tomasz Wegrzanowski

body:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 07:56:13PM +0200, Marek Najmajer wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Wikipedia needs a new language edition - Cassubian.
> Cassubian is a regional language of northern Poland near the Baltic Sea.
> It has some interesting literature, bible translation, some doctionaries.
> There is nearly 200,000 Cassubians there but only 5,000 speak his language
> on the daily basis.
> To setup a language edition on Wikipedia can be good way to help promoting
> the language and to protect it from extinction.

Will you translate the Language file now or do you want to have interface
in Polish till the translation ?


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Wikipedia-l] wikimage startup?

body:
Andre-
> It has been discussed before, I think I want to go beyond discussion,
> and get this thing rolling. I would like to start setting up a database
> of public domain and copyleft images, using the Wikipedia technology.

As noted earlier, this should be done under the name "Wikimedia Commons",
and reside at commons.wikimedia.org, to allow for other content than just
images, and to make it clear that that this is not just for Wikipedia, but
for all Wikimedia projects.

Regards,

Erik


subject: [Wikipedia-l] wikimage startup?

body:
To "seed" this, I suggest importing all images and their description
from en.wikipedia which link to either [[public domain]] or [[GFDL]].
This should take only a SQL dump and a brief script. It would be pure
horror to re-upload all of these manually!

Magnus

Andre Engels wrote:

> It has been discussed before, I think I want to go beyond discussion,
> and get this thing rolling. I would like to start setting up a database
> of public domain and copyleft images, using the Wikipedia technology.
>
> Goal: Provide a source for public domain and copyleft images, in the
> first place intended for Wikipedia, but of course also for use by any
> other projects (in particular copyleft projects), whether connected
> to Wikipedia or not.
>
> For this, I would like to get Wikimedia set up at some url like
> image.wikipedia.org for the time being; standard setup should be
> changed in that the image-namespace would be in the standard search
> options. Once this is done, it can be announced at Wikipedia etcetera,
> and I hope I will get some others who would like to help getting this
> to work.
>
> Andre Engels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


from_name: Jason Richey

subject: [Wikitech-l] Jason is back

body:
Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.

Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
do we want?  What will we settle for?

Jason

Jimmy Wales wrote:

> Jason is back from vacation, and I'll have him get us an update on
> geoffrin tomorrow morning.  It should be well on the way by now, I
> don't know.
>
> --Jimbo
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr at bomis.com>


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
Angela wrote:
> I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
> mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
> resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
> mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
> any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
> whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
> mediation committee to make these referrals?

Let's not confuse recommendations by the entire mediation committee (majority
vote) with recommendations by a single mediator. The first should be
seriously considered, of course. But only so many cases can be worked on at one
time so we still need to regulate the process.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Wikitech-l] Jason is back

body:
Jason Richey wrote:

>Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
>tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
>technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
>with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
>our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
>within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
>morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
>server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.
>
>Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
>do we want?  What will we settle for?
>
They could paint it yellow. :-)

 From today's A Word A Day mailing list:

resistentialism

   The theory that inanimate objects demonstrate hostile behavior against us.

Replacement is no doubt appropriate since the need for it is undoubtedly
there.

Ec


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
As it stands we have an effective mechanism to regulate access to
arbitration. 4 arbitrators must vote to accept the case. What is being
talked about is some change which would bypass or abrogate that mechanism.
Apparently Jimbo's wish, but not absolutely sure. One of his referals
(Anthony) never got the 4 votes and he made no comment.

Fred

From: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jheiskan at welho.com>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Date: 30 Mar 2004 12:27:51 +0300
To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.

Firstly, as you as an arbitration body clearly wish to have an effective
regulator for the process, why should you not give those who are to *be* the
regulators enough authority to *effectively* actually *act* as regulators!

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from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] Uncle Ed reads Irismeister the riot act

body:
I posted the following on requests for review of admin actions. -- Ed
Poor

----

Iris, shut up and get back to work! You are wasting everyone's time.
Either help us to write accurate NPOV articles, or leave.

I don't give a rat's ass about whether natural health or iridology or
zone manipulation are true or not. Just make your case for them, and
leave it for the reader to decide.

People have bent over backwards to accomodate you, mostly out of a pure
concern for fairness and justice. You have eroded all the good will left
in my body. Any more crap out of you, and I will "take steps". Better
listen up good, because I'm one the oldest "old hands" around here and I
know how to work the system. Don't get me riled up against you, or I
will force you out!! (A word to the wise is sufficient.) --Uncle Ed
14:14, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_review_of_admin_acti
ons

----

Sorry if I overdid it, but this business of AssumeGoodFaith can only be
taken so far. I have no more patience left for his brand of nonsense.

Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed
Bureaucrat, Developer, Rabble-rousing Demogogue


from_name: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

subject: [WikiEN-l] Mediation-Arbitration interface.

body:
On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 23:44, Ray Saintonge wrote:

    Jimmy Wales wrote:

    >Angela wrote:
    >
    >> --- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jheiskan at welho.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Please, let us invest the Mediation Committee with an
    >>>explicit power of binding referral to the Arbitration
    >>>Committee...
    >>>
    >>I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
    >>mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
    >>resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
    >>mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
    >>any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
    >>whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
    >>mediation committee to make these referrals?
    >>
    >
    >I agree with this completely.
    >
    Although I agree in principle, there is still a need to condider the
    workload that the arbitrators have, and the amount of time that they
    have to do it.

    Ec

I have continued to consider this matter, and I seriously feel that your
concern is exaggerated. The only thing the arbitration committee would
need
to figure out, is in which form they would decide and send back a
censure of a
"timewasting" referral by the mediation committee.

The possibility of such a censure would in most cases stop the mediation
committee from becoming an easy "rubber stamp" for any old troll. As the
mediation committee is currently set up as the communal spittoon anyhow,
an even moderately worded censure by the arbitration committee would
necessarily carry weight, if the censure itself was not lightly given.

The arbitration committee might also decide to make a swift decision of
dismissal; with the normal 6 votes needed, of course, without finding
the referral by the mediation committee itself worth censure.

Or there are of course other ways to set it up... Your imagination is
your limit. I trust that if the wise heads in the arbitration committee
really seriously decided to take this on board, a solution that is in
the interest of both the mediation committee and arbitration committees
workload limitation can be worked out.

One thing that would help that, BTW, would be a regularized form of
communication between the two bodies.

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

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From: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <jheiskan at welho.com>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Date: 30 Mar 2004 16:03:42 +0300
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.

On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 15:22, Fred Bauder wrote:
As it stands we have an effective mechanism to regulate access to
arbitration. 4 arbitrators must vote to accept the case. What is being
talked about is some change which would bypass or abrogate that mechanism.
Apparently Jimbo's wish, but not absolutely sure. One of his referals
(Anthony) never got the 4 votes and he made no comment.

Fred

Hello, Fred.

I do sincerely think it would not be counterproductive to have an alternate
forum for this kind of jaw-jaw, but that is one of those things that is up
to your posse as are most things to do with the arbitration-mediation
framework.

Your input is welcome. Fred

As regards to your effective mechanism to "regulate access", you probably
meant to type "restrict access".

No. Fred

It is definitely the case that the perception is that the mediation process
is not even a "hurdle" on the way to arbitration, but totally separate and
"useless" in reference to it.

It is not meant to be a hurdle. It is an opportunity to settle disputes.
Fred

If there were a way to engender a perception that the mediation process was
conjunct in some real way to the arbitration committee, this would not only
improve the functionality of the mediation committee, but also *potentially*
effectively _restrict_ the number of cases that actually flared up to a
state that can only be remedied by arbitration. "A stitch in time, saves
nine!"

The intention is to resolve disputes without having to engage in a
quasi-judicial procedure. Issues which are not resolved by negotiation or
mediation can possibly be decided by arbitration, or not. (not includes
trivial matters; matters which are rightly subject to policy determinations
by Wikipedia as a whole; matters which belong in the courts--God forbid; and
matters we don't know how to handle). Fred

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Jason is back

body:
On Mar 30, 2004, at 04:27, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:08:22 -0800, Jason Richey wrote:
>> Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
>> do we want?  What will we settle for?
>
> Given how long this took i would propose a refund and a quick order to
> another vendor. And as much ram as possible, cpu on suda is mostly idle
> with the disk doing substantial i/o.

Heartily agreed. I certainly won't be buying from Penguin in the
future; they ought to have sent us a replacement machine weeks ago if
they couldn't get it running by replacing one part at a time.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [Wikitech-l] Jason is back

body:
Well, Jason, the strange thing is, Geoffrin (or a replacement?) seems
to have arrived here this morning.  So, I wonder what's up with that.

Jason Richey wrote:

> Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
> tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
> technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
> with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
> our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
> within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
> morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
> server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.
>
> Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
> do we want?  What will we settle for?
>
> Jason
>
> Jimmy Wales wrote:
>
> > Jason is back from vacation, and I'll have him get us an update on
> > geoffrin tomorrow morning.  It should be well on the way by now, I
> > don't know.
> >
> > --Jimbo
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> --
> "Jason C. Richey" <jasonr at bomis.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: elwp at gmx.de

subject: [Wikitech-l] old revisions to be deleted

body:
Could a developer please delete the old revisions listed on
the following
page?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:L%F6schkandidaten/Versionen/oldid-Liste

They all contain copyright violations. Deletion of old revisions
will be necessary about every two weeks. Is this list the right
place for such requests?

de:Benutzer:El

--
+++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland: T?V-gepr?fter Virenschutz +++
100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos: http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz


from_name: Andrew Alder

subject: [WikiEN-l] Urgent - Pump busted

body:
G'day

I haven't been even lurking on this list recently, but the Village Pump is
busted... much perhaps all of the contents duplicated... and I haven't the
time or expertise to fix it, and the sooner it's done the less work it will
be. TIA.

Andrew A

****
andrewa @ alder . ws
http://www.zeta.org.au/~andrewa
Phone 9441 4476
Mobile 04 2525 4476
****


from_name: Anthere

subject: [WikiEN-l] Mediation/arbitration

body:
Mediation and arbitration

3 months roughly

Perhaps time to make a summary/report then...

A : How many requests were done to MC ?

B : How many requests were accepted ? (ie, cases where all disputants agreed to mediation, and agreed on a common mediator)

If A is different of B => why were requests not accepted ?
    Is it because some "regular" users refused mediation with a "troll" ?
        If so, what do we propose to regular users being out of energy due to trolling ?
    Is it because the two could not agree on a common mediator ?
        Should more mediators be involved ?
    Is it because no mediator accepted the case ?
        In this case, why did they refuse ? If the one requesting is a troll, are mediators expected to lose their time with the troll ? What do we do with the troll exhausting us ?

C : How many mediation succeed ?

If C << B, why did mediation failed ?
    Is it because the conflict was just too old and people too bitter ?
        If so, should we try to handle the case sooner ?
    Is it because other people had negative impact on the mediation ?
        If so, how can we protect mediation process ?
    Is it because the mediator is just plain not a good mediator ?
        If so, what should we do ?
    Is it because one of the disputant is a troll ?
        If so, should mediators lose their time and energy on trolls, or use it for issues on which they can help ? Is not providing mediation to a troll and tiring out mediators, just feeding the troll and weakening the community ?

D : On mediations which failed, how many led to request to arbitration ? (excluding those which were spontaneously sent to arbitration due to one of the disputant blewing up)

If C different of D, what happened with the failed mediations which were never followed by arbitration request ? Why were no request for arbitration done ?

E : On mediations that led to request to arbitration, how many were accepted by the AC (eventually with Jimbo help)

If C different of E, why were requests not accepted ? What happened with the failed mediations which were not accepted by arbitration ? How did the disputants took it ? Are the disputants still fighting ? How many of the disputants left wikipedia ?

F : On mediations that were accepted by arbitration after mediation stamp of approval, how many were actually arbitrated ?

--------------------

I know not the exact numbers, but here are I think a couple of relevant points
* perhaps 20 cases were handled, most did not succeed
* the great majority of cases involved at least one person widely perceived as a troll by the wikipedia community, or even a vandal. It means most cases handled were potentially just feeding the trolls, which is generally a bad idea.
* some mediators plain refused handling cases with trolls, were attacked by the trolls for refusing to "assume their duty", and requested to resign
* only the most critical cases of trolling or vandalism were accepted by arbitration or arbitrated. Dispute between regular users were not.

What my feeling is
* MC role is to handle disputes between regular users. Most of these disputes should not go to arbitration. If a mediator fails in one of these disputes, relay should be taken by another, or by a group of mediators. Because I deeply believe all regular users are accessible to logic, to reason and to discussion, hence all cases should be resolvable without arbitration. If all discussion fails, then the issue should be taken by any user or group of user available for help, with light enforcement possibly (hence, not officially by a mediator). Any user should feel like he is empowered to help.

* As it is organised, AC role is typically to handle cases related to very bad behaviors, and intent to hurt the community. It is different from regular disputes. Hence I feel that arbitration should accept to handle cases directly per request from the community, not to wait for a mediator to lose his time and energy over a troll. If a poll (grrrr) reveals that 80% of regular users think User:Bip is a vandal, then the case should go straight to arbitration. Not wander in bureaucracy corridors. If 80% of the wikipedians think User:Bip is a troll, then I also think the AC should accept the case, as it is community request. If they are too busy, then community should decide itself, and apply the sentence.

* Finally, I think troll handling is not the business of MC really. Because just accepting to take care of them is paying attention to them (which is what they want) and weakening the process entirely. It is perhaps even not the business of arbitration (though it would be nice it is). It is the business of the community on the whole. When people see there is an AC and an MC, they feel they are not empowered to gather a team and get rid of the trolls themselves.

And, no, I do not stretch the rules. I just do not like seeing community suffering because of bureaucratic paralysis :-)

Anthere...sorry for having been so long...on her way back to "streching" the rules on fr:...

PS : on the other hand, I am glad that MC and AC slow down processes that are other wise going too quickly on en: right now for my liking  :-))))

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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subject: [Wikitech-l] Jason is back

body:
Jason wrote, last night:
>> Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
>> tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
>> technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
>> with THAT server next.

I wrote, this morning:
> Well, Jason, the strange thing is, Geoffrin (or a replacement?) seems
> to have arrived here this morning.  So, I wonder what's up with that.

Well, I booted up the machine that came via FedEx this morning, and it
is geoffrin -- our old hard drives anyway.  The case is our case --
the serial numbers match with the paperwork that I have from the
original shipment.  (from my account on their website)

Maybe it has an all new motherboard and ram and is fixed, however,
Jason's report from Aaron doesn't make it sound that way.  It sounds
to me like the machine was shipped back to us even though it is not
fixed, which is the absolute worst possible thing that Penguin could
have done.  I'd accept a refund, or a replacement, but I will of
course not accept in any way shape or form the machine without being
repaired.

That's beyond stupid.

It's still early in CA, but getting late enough for it to be o.k. for
me to call Jason to find out more details from him about what was said
yesterday.

In any event, my current plan is to just sit tight for today until we
figure out what's going on.  I may start running Memtest86 test #11,
which is the one it used to fail.  (However, the front of the machine
is locked, and they neglected to send me keys, so I have to figure out
how to boot Memtest86 without accessing the floppy, or I have to
figure out how to open the damned thing without the key.)

I hate computers.

--Jimbo


body:
I think any procedure you come up with will be satisfactory.  I suggest
referal ought to come from the mediator who is familiar with the case. This
would count as referral by the committee, absent an overide. (You would need
to make that your policy)

My meta suggestion is to adapt some policy (with a minimum of fuss) and move
on.

We are very near, hopefully, to ratifying an arbitration policy which would
permit referrals by the meditation committee as a whole, individual
mediators or indeed anyone who requests arbitration. Referrals by the
mediation committee would be given the most weight.

Fred

> From: Brian Corr <BCorr at NEAction.org>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:41:32 -0500
> To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.
>
> I think that it is very important that the Mediation Committee be empowered
> to send cases to the Arbitration Committee. I understand that it is
> worrisome to people that the Mediation Committee could force the
> Arbitration Committee to take a case even if they felt it did not merit
> review. However, the mediation process is not being taken seriously:  not
> only is mediation seen as something that has little to no actual effect,
> there are also no negative consequences for trivial requests for mediation.
> Mediators are being burned out and very little progress is being made,
> despite a couple of successes.
>
> So in short, the Mediation Committee is currently experiencing the very
> thing that some members of the Arbitration Committee fear -- being
> compelled to take cases where there may not be a serious intent on the part
> of those asking for mediation. If those requesting mediation knew that
> requests for mediation are part of a serious process that will eventually
> lead to a resolution, I believe it would go a long way towards making the
> system work better and reducing the burden on mediators -- and NOT but
> transferring that burden to the Arbitration Committee.
>
> Also, I think that -- just as the Arbitration Committee has policies about
> accepting cases -- the Mediation Committee should be able to set its
> policies about how it would decide to refer cases to Arbitration with
> discussion from all interested people (and polling if needed). As a member
> of the Mediation Committee, I can't imagine asking to have a case referred
> to arbitration without consulting with my colleagues, but at the same time
> I'm a bit apprehensive about there being some sort of requirement that the
> Mediation Committee have a consensus or vote about it before a case is
> referred to arbitration. However, I agree that there needs to be agreement
> between both committees -- and other Wikipedians, for that matter -- on how
> this would work in practice.
>
> And just to clarify for those who aren't intimately involved in these
> committees, the current system is that ONLY Jimbo can refer a case to
> Arbitration, and then the Arbitration Committee votes on whether to accept
> it: "Currently, the arbitrators accept referrals from Jimbo Wales only,
> which they decide to arbitrate on based on the voting procedure described
> at wikipedia:arbitration policy." Therefore, the change that Jimbo is
> supporting would simply be to allow the Mediation Committee to refer cases
> without Jimbo's intervention.
> <http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-March/011973.html >
>
> I think that we can discuss a set of guidelines on the mediation policy
> talk page that will address all of the concerns which have been raised by
> people.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian (Bcorr)
>
>> On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 15:22, Fred Bauder wrote:
>>
>> As it stands we have an effective mechanism to regulate access to
>> arbitration. 4 arbitrators must vote to accept the case. What is
>> being talked about is some change which would bypass or abrogate
>> that mechanism. Apparently Jimbo's wish, but not absolutely sure.
>> One of his referals (Anthony) never got the 4 votes and he made no
>> comment.
>>
>> Fred
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Andreas Hoerstemeier

subject: [Wikipedia-l] language.php

body:
Hi,

there seems to be something wrong with the language.php in the english
wikipedia - for bulgarian it shows two strange characters, seems to be a
miscoded character.

And probably also related with the language.php - in the Thai wikipedia
both bulgarian and alsatian interwiki links show like internal links to
other thai articles. Someone even already created [[als:Chimie]].

[[en:User:Ahoerstemeier]]


body:
I suggest you don't fool with such matters beyond the point you determine
lack of intent to mediate. Move em on.

Fred

> From: Brian Corr <BCorr at NEAction.org>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:41:32 -0500
> To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.
>
> So in short, the Mediation Committee is currently experiencing the very
> thing that some members of the Arbitration Committee fear -- being
> compelled to take cases where there may not be a serious intent on the part
> of those asking for mediation.

Mediate em in the morning; arbitrate em in the afternoon; hang em at sundown


subject: [WikiEN-l] Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.

body:
On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 11:44, Daniel Mayer wrote:

    Angela wrote:
    > I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
    > mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
    > resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
    > mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
    > any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
    > whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
    > mediation committee to make these referrals?

    Let's not confuse recommendations by the entire mediation committee (majority
    vote) with recommendations by a single mediator. The first should be
    seriously considered, of course. But only so many cases can be worked on at one
    time so we still need to regulate the process.

    -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

Firstly, as you as an arbitration body clearly wish to have an effective
regulator for the process, why should you not give those who are to *be*
the regulators enough authority to *effectively* actually *act* as
regulators!

I have yet to see any suggestion that each and every mediator should be
given the authority to solo refer a matter to the arbitration committee.
And personally I have no objection at all that the arbitration committee
police the mediation committee against overreach of authority.

But if there is *no* authority, there will not be anything other than
overreach of authority, as the mediation committee, and its members will
have to conduct
their remit somehow, even if they lack authority.

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
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body:
I think interface in Polish could be a good strategy by now.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomasz Wegrzanowski" <taw at users.sf.net>
To: <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] How to setup a new language edition: Cassubian

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 07:56:13PM +0200, Marek Najmajer wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Wikipedia needs a new language edition - Cassubian.
> > Cassubian is a regional language of northern Poland near the Baltic Sea.
> > It has some interesting literature, bible translation, some
doctionaries.
> > There is nearly 200,000 Cassubians there but only 5,000 speak his
language
> > on the daily basis.
> > To setup a language edition on Wikipedia can be good way to help
promoting
> > the language and to protect it from extinction.
>
> Will you translate the Language file now or do you want to have interface
> in Polish till the translation ?
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Brian Corr

body:
I think that it is very important that the Mediation Committee be empowered
to send cases to the Arbitration Committee. I understand that it is
worrisome to people that the Mediation Committee could force the
Arbitration Committee to take a case even if they felt it did not merit
review. However, the mediation process is not being taken seriously:  not
only is mediation seen as something that has little to no actual effect,
there are also no negative consequences for trivial requests for mediation.
Mediators are being burned out and very little progress is being made,
despite a couple of successes.

So in short, the Mediation Committee is currently experiencing the very
thing that some members of the Arbitration Committee fear -- being
compelled to take cases where there may not be a serious intent on the part
of those asking for mediation. If those requesting mediation knew that
requests for mediation are part of a serious process that will eventually
lead to a resolution, I believe it would go a long way towards making the
system work better and reducing the burden on mediators -- and NOT but
transferring that burden to the Arbitration Committee.

Also, I think that -- just as the Arbitration Committee has policies about
accepting cases -- the Mediation Committee should be able to set its
policies about how it would decide to refer cases to Arbitration with
discussion from all interested people (and polling if needed). As a member
of the Mediation Committee, I can't imagine asking to have a case referred
to arbitration without consulting with my colleagues, but at the same time
I'm a bit apprehensive about there being some sort of requirement that the
Mediation Committee have a consensus or vote about it before a case is
referred to arbitration. However, I agree that there needs to be agreement
between both committees -- and other Wikipedians, for that matter -- on how
this would work in practice.

And just to clarify for those who aren't intimately involved in these
committees, the current system is that ONLY Jimbo can refer a case to
Arbitration, and then the Arbitration Committee votes on whether to accept
it: "Currently, the arbitrators accept referrals from Jimbo Wales only,
which they decide to arbitrate on based on the voting procedure described
at wikipedia:arbitration policy." Therefore, the change that Jimbo is
supporting would simply be to allow the Mediation Committee to refer cases
without Jimbo's intervention.
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-March/011973.html >

I think that we can discuss a set of guidelines on the mediation policy
talk page that will address all of the concerns which have been raised by
people.

Thanks,
Brian (Bcorr)

>On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 15:22, Fred Bauder wrote:
>
>     As it stands we have an effective mechanism to regulate access to
>     arbitration. 4 arbitrators must vote to accept the case. What is
>     being talked about is some change which would bypass or abrogate
>     that mechanism. Apparently Jimbo's wish, but not absolutely sure.
>     One of his referals (Anthony) never got the 4 votes and he made no
>     comment.
>
>     Fred


body:
Cassubian has no ISO639 code so the Ethnologue code could be used instead:
CSB.

In fact the "Ethnologue.com" and "MARC Code  list for languages" spell the
name as KASHUBIAN.

see: www.ethnologue.org , http://www.loc.gov/marc/languages/ .


from_name: Guillaume Blanchard

subject: [Wikipedia-l] wikimage startup?

body:
What about: resource.wikimedia.org ?

Aoineko

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Moeller" <erik_moeller at gmx.de>
To: <520042374336-0001 at T-Online.de>; <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
Cc: <wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] wikimage startup?

> Andre-
> > It has been discussed before, I think I want to go beyond discussion,
> > and get this thing rolling. I would like to start setting up a database
> > of public domain and copyleft images, using the Wikipedia technology.
>
> As noted earlier, this should be done under the name "Wikimedia Commons",
> and reside at commons.wikimedia.org, to allow for other content than just
> images, and to make it clear that that this is not just for Wikipedia, but
> for all Wikimedia projects.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikitech-l] fr.wikipedia is in UTF-8 now, and it works !

body:
"Camille Constans" <wikipedia at shaihome.net> schrieb:

> If some people want to go to UTF-8, I can say we're ready now :)

There has been a request of going to UTF-8 for nl: in November or so.
Given that it seems to be possible now, I guess I am hereby reiterating
that request.

Andre Engels


subject: [WikiEN-l] Mediation/arbitration

body:
I think weeding out trolls is a primary task of Mediators.

I agree with Anthere that disputes between good contributors can be
resolved with logic and courtesy.

I think, however, that as soon as the Mediation Committee realizes that
One of the parties is not interested in Wikipedia goals but is just
yanking our collective chain -- then label them a troll and refer them
to Arbitration for their time-out.

This is exactly the same technique I used in my Sunday School. If a
child is willing to apologize and make up, then no punishment is
necessary. Otherwise, time-out: immediate, no debate, no appeal.

My class became so quiet and happy that enrollment quickly doubled!
(Pretty good considering my only experience teaching young kids was one
viewing of "Kindergarten Cop"!!)

When word got out, people came from several states away, just to find
out how I did it.
Don't feed the trolls! Give them a time-out!!

Ed Poor
Application Engineering
x5479

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from_name: gorgon zolla

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Mediation/arbitration

body:
Anthere wrote:

"should mediators lose their time and energy on trolls, or use it for issues
on which they can help ? Is not providing mediation to a troll and tiring
out mediators, just feeding the troll and weakening the community ?"

Anthere is absolutely right.

There are people coming to Wikipedia who have no intention of making a
collaborative contribution.  Most of these cases are clear cut, and there
really is no point in carrying on a discussion with these people, because
(a) they enjoy it and will perpetuate it for this reason, (b) they have more
time than we do, and (c) they're not going to change.

Recent examples include Irismeister, Mr-N-H, and Platus Satire, Grazingship.
  None of these people share the goals of the project.  For such
individuals, we should follow a process that is fair, rapid, transparent,
and that provides a minimal opportunity for the faux contributor to utilize
Wikipedia as a source of entertainment.

Contrast this with the matters involving longstanding users who have a
genuine desire to further the project's goals, but who have difficulties
contributing in a positive fashion.   The original intent of mediation and
arbitration was to serve these people so that they can better serve the
project.

Kindest regards

The Baron

_________________________________________________________________
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months
FREE*
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from_name: KNOTT, T

subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

body:
It was blocked by the proxy blocker. See [[User:Proxy blocker]] for details.

Theresa

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Demolli [mailto:demolli at unice.fr]
Sent: 30 March 2004 11:55
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

Someone blocked my ip :  62.212.103.37.
Why this is my home network gateway, did someone use this address for
vandalism ?

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Camille Constans

body:
Two weeks agos, fr decided to go to UTF-8. Now we can say, that fr is working fine :)

Some problems we had :
- Pbs with illegal windows caracters (which are not in ISO8859-1). Corrected by a bot after the conversion, but It could have been done before.
- Cache pb, anonym users created pages with old encoding. If we do another conversion, we'll have to clear the squid cache I think.
- Name of pictures. The name of pictures are converted in UTF-8, but not the file name on server. Now it's fine, we have a script which convert it.

It tooks around 3 hours to convert the french wiki. During this 3 hours, 20' to make the dump, 2 hours to convert the dump, and 40' to get back the dump in the database.
The fr site was offline only for the 40' of getting back the dump in database. During the rest of the time, the wiki was in read only.

I would like to thank Med, for his conversion software, Looxix for his small python script to convert the pictures file names and all the work he had done to convert illegal windows caracters with his bot.

If some people want to go to UTF-8, I can say we're ready now :)

Shaihulud


subject: [Wikitech-l] The story of Geoffrin

body:
Erik Moeller wrote:
> I agree with Gabriel. Moreover, we should order the replacement *now*, as
> we do still have more than enough money in the bank, and resolve the
> issues with Penguin Computing over the next few weeks.

Well, it's all very strange, but I believe that we are now in
possession of a fixed Geoffrin.

Here's the story, as told to me by Jason, and as told to him by
Penguin.  This is my understanding, but it may be flawed in minor ways
of course.

Yesterday, when Jason called, the server was still "in engineering"
according to the Penguin internal tracking system and the person Jason
spoke to indicated that it could not be fixed and that we would be
referred to our salesperson for a refund or replacement.

But, that report was incorrect.  The machine will still "in
engineering", but it was being burned in after they changed something.
The machine (allegedly) went through a 90 hour burnin with no memory
errors.

The change was to "turn off interleaved memory access".  Of course I
only barely know what that means (mostly from just understanding the
component words), but it certainly sounds like a plausible source of
the problem, and a plausible solution to the problem.

Jason is also FedEx'ing me the keys to the machine, so that I can
access the floppy drive without breaking into it.  This will give me
the ability to run memtest86.

So, here's the plan.

When I get the keys, I will install the machine in the colo.  I will
run memtest86 for 24 hours.  If it passes, we will put the machine in
production.  If it fails, then we will (a) order a replacement and (b)
demand a refund from Penguin.

I think that I'll get the machine installed late tomorrow afternoon,
Wednesday afternoon, and have it on the net for everyone on Thursday
afternoon.

--Jimbo


from_name: Eric Demolli

subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

body:
Someone blocked my ip :  62.212.103.37.
Why this is my home network gateway, did someone use this address for
vandalism ?


body:
On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 15:22, Fred Bauder wrote:

    As it stands we have an effective mechanism to regulate access to
    arbitration. 4 arbitrators must vote to accept the case. What is
    being talked about is some change which would bypass or abrogate
    that mechanism. Apparently Jimbo's wish, but not absolutely sure.
    One of his referals (Anthony) never got the 4 votes and he made no
    comment.

    Fred

Hello, Fred.

I do sincerely think it would not be counterproductive to have an
alternate forum for this kind of jaw-jaw, but that is one of those
things that is up to your posse as are most things to do with the
arbitration-mediation framework.

As regards to your effective mechanism to "regulate access", you
probably meant to type "restrict access".

It is definitely the case that the perception is that the mediation
process is not even a "hurdle" on the way to arbitration, but totally
separate and "useless" in reference to it.

If there were a way to engender a perception that the mediation process
was conjunct in some real way to the arbitration committee, this would
not only improve the functionality of the mediation committee, but also
*potentially* effectively _restrict_ the number of cases that actually
flared up to a state that can only be remedied by arbitration. "A stitch
in time, saves nine!"

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
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from_name: Mathias Schindler

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Wikipedia for mobile devices / hosting the mobipocket
 version of wikipedia

body:
Hi,

this morning, the news agency Associated Press (German) has published an
article on the Mobipocket-Version of the German Wikipedia. The file is
made bye "beam-bibliothek.de" and is offered for 8,95 Euros on CD and 1
Euro per download for covering the traffic.

The are also offering two links at the bottom to free downloads. One
site is the web site of a German member of parliament (Axel Sch?fer),
who fell in love with the wikipedia project
(http://www.axelschaefermdb.de/more.php?id=136_0_1_0_M)

I would love to see that file (http://www.asmdb4.de/medien/wikipedia.zip
or
http://www.mobile2day.de/freedownload.php?file=c112562.zip&prod=14627)
on downloads.wikipedia.org

See
http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft/ProductDetailsReaderPro.asp
for this reader software.

Mathias
--
nach uns der synflood.


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Contributions count on stats page

body:
Hi,

does the contributions count on this page:

   http://www.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/TablesWikipediaEN.htm

only include contributions in the article namespace or something? I'm
listed as having 6796 contributions, but according to
Special:Contributions, I have many more.

Nobody on #wikipedia seemed to know, so I'm asking here.

Thanks,
Timwi


from_name: Magnus Manske

subject: [WikiEN-l] Biography entries

body:
I have tried three different email addresses to reach the original
author of these entries, presumably named Eric Tentarelli. All seem to
be down. Any help in tracking him down would be appreciated.

Meanwhile, I say we continue using these entries. They were clearly
intended to be used the way we use them.

Magnus


from_name: fabiform

body:
> Sorry if I overdid it, but this business of
> AssumeGoodFaith can only be
> taken so far. I have no more patience left for his
> brand of nonsense.
>
> Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed
> Bureaucrat, Developer, Rabble-rousing Demogogue

Well I think you did overdo it, but I can't bring
myself to regret you said that.  Irismeister has
exhausted my patience, several times over.  I'm tired
of being lectured on civility by someone who, and this
is the nicest thing I can think of to say, is either
lacking in self-awareness or has a fine sense of irony
and is mocking us all.

I'm also frustrated at the length of time arbitration
is taking.  I don't agree with the direction their
decree seems to be heading in.  I don't expect
sympathy for that since I've undoubtedly lost
perspective and I'm trying to put my trust in the
aribtrators, but the length of time the voting is
taking makes it ten times worse, and making it
impossible for me to put this whole mess out of my
mind.

Frustratedly,
Fabiform.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Root and Branch - it's the only way.

body:
Daniel Mayer a ?crit:
> Angela wrote:
>
>>I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
>>mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
>>resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
>>mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
>>any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
>>whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
>>mediation committee to make these referrals?
>
>
> Let's not confuse recommendations by the entire mediation committee (majority
> vote) with recommendations by a single mediator. The first should be
> seriously considered, of course. But only so many cases can be worked on at one
> time so we still need to regulate the process.

Since mediation are usually done by only one mediator, how do you think
we could do this ? It happened that some cases were discussed a bit with
other mediators, for support, but since mediation is private; and what
is said is private, how could the opinion of the full committe have more
weight that the opinion of the mediator only ?

How are we supposed to give our opinion on a mediation we know little
about ?


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Why am I blocked ?

body:
Eric Demolli wrote:

> Someone blocked my ip :  62.212.103.37.
> Why this is my home network gateway, did someone use this address for
> vandalism ?
No, if you read the blocking message you'd see "Your IP address has been
blocked because it is an open proxy. Please contact your Internet
service provider or tech support and inform them of this serious
security problem.". Apparently your home network is an open proxy,
either because you misconfigured it, or because a troyan horse opened
it. The blocking was done automagically by the proxy blocking addition
recently added into the software.

[[en:User:Ahoerstemeier]]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Qualifications for referrals to arbitration.

body:
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen a ?crit:
> On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 11:44, Daniel Mayer wrote:
>
> Angela wrote:
>> I completely agree with Cimon. If participants in
>> mediation have followed all the steps of the dispute
>> resolution process, mediation has failed, and the
>> mediation committee recommends arbitration, is there
>> any reason the arbitrators still need to vote on
>> whether to accept the case? Can they not trust the
>> mediation committee to make these referrals?
>
> Let's not confuse recommendations by the entire mediation committee (majority
> vote) with recommendations by a single mediator. The first should be
> seriously considered, of course. But only so many cases can be worked on at one
> time so we still need to regulate the process.
>
> -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
>
>
> Firstly, as you as an arbitration body clearly wish to have an effective
> regulator for the process, why should you not give those who are to *be*
> the regulators enough authority to *effectively* actually *act* as
> regulators!
>
> I have yet to see any suggestion that each and every mediator should be
> given the authority to solo refer a matter to the arbitration committee.
> And personally I have no objection at all that the arbitration committee
> police the mediation committee against overreach of authority.
>
> But if there is *no* authority, there will not be anything other than
> overreach of authority, as the mediation committee, and its members will
> have to conduct
> their remit somehow, even if they lack authority.
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

I am confused about what you say here. I have the feeling that I am
concerned by this comment, so I would like you to rephrase your comment :-(


subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

body:
It was the proxy blocker. But how does it work ? I use Squid cache but there
should be no way to connect on my proxy port from the Net.
I've added some acl to allow only my internal network IP should I do
something else ?
How can I be unblocked ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "KNOTT, T" <tknott at qcl.org.uk>
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

> It was blocked by the proxy blocker. See [[User:Proxy blocker]] for
details.
>
> Theresa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Demolli [mailto:demolli at unice.fr]
> Sent: 30 March 2004 11:55
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?
>
> Someone blocked my ip :  62.212.103.37.
> Why this is my home network gateway, did someone use this address for
> vandalism ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] The story of Geoffrin

body:
On Mar 30, 2004, at 12:29, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> I think that I'll get the machine installed late tomorrow afternoon,
> Wednesday afternoon, and have it on the net for everyone on Thursday
> afternoon.

Well, let's schedule some database downtime for Saturday to get things
moved around and up and running, assuming things look ok.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

body:
>It was the proxy blocker. But how does it work ? I use Squid cache but
>there should be no way to connect on my proxy port from the Net.
>I've added some acl to allow only my internal network IP should I do
>something else ?

I'll let someone else answer this as I haven't got a clue.

>How can I be unblocked ?

I've unblocked you, but I don't know if the proxy blocker will just
block you again when you try to edit. Have you tried creating an account
and logging in ?

Theresa


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: WikiHiero is here !!

body:
Nicolas Weeger wrote:

>> What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific
>> names)?
>
> IMO language-specific names are even worse.
> Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of
> metaspace name, granted), and it'll work fine.

Not really. You have to translate the page into the target language
either way.


from_name: Imran Ghory

subject: [WikiEN-l] Biography entries

body:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Magnus Manske wrote:

> I have tried three different email addresses to reach the original
> author of these entries, presumably named Eric Tentarelli. All seem to
> be down. Any help in tracking him down would be appreciated.

I'm not certain but I believe Eric's responsible for the current version
of the dictionary available at s9.com.

Imran
--
http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran


body:
Evan Prodromou wrote:

[about merging the Wikipedia DBs into one DB]

> I think there are a number of issues:
>
>   1) Marking articles with a language code. That's pretty
>      straightforward, I think: add another column for the language
>      code.

My suggestion was to use this opportunity to migrate to an entirely new
database schema, which in my view will allow us better performance in
the future:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_new_database_schema

>   3) User interface language. I believe this can be determined from
>      the browser headers, and we could have an override set in a
>      cookie or a user preference.

My idea here was to display the UI in the same language as the article
if you are anonymous, and to use a user preference if you are logged in.

>   4) Choosing which version of an article to show. This is easy if the
>      there's a version in the user's language

The subdomain determines this (e.g. fr.wikipedia.org as opposed to
es.wikipedia.org, say).

>   6) Cultures. This is the really hard one. It'd be difficult to
>      integrate the N Wikipedias into one. It's hard to do
>      decision-making in multiple languages.

That's entirely separate from merging the DBs. I'm not sure if merging
the "cultures", as you call them, is even possible, but that doesn't
stop the DBs from merging.

Timwi


from_name: Gabriel Wicke

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Jason is back

body:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:08:22 -0800, Jason Richey wrote:

> Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
> tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
> technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
> with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
> our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
> within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
> morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
> server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.
>
> Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
> do we want?  What will we settle for?

Given how long this took i would propose a refund and a quick order to
another vendor. And as much ram as possible, cpu on suda is mostly idle
with the disk doing substantial i/o.
--
Gabriel Wicke


body:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:26:12 +0100
Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> does the contributions count on this page:
>
>    http://www.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/TablesWikipediaEN.htm
>
> only include contributions in the article namespace or something? I'm
> listed as having 6796 contributions, but according to
> Special:Contributions, I have many more.
>
> Nobody on #wikipedia seemed to know, so I'm asking here.
>
> Thanks,
> Timwi

IIRC this is only contribution on article namespace

Shaihulud


from_name: Nick Reinking

subject: [Wikitech-l] The story of Geoffrin

body:
> The change was to "turn off interleaved memory access".  Of course I
> only barely know what that means (mostly from just understanding the
> component words), but it certainly sounds like a plausible source of
> the problem, and a plausible solution to the problem.

Most likely a fairly considerable decrease in sustained memory
bandwidth.  How much, I couldn't tell you.  But, that's what it is.

--
Nick Reinking -- eschewing obfuscation since 1981 -- Minneapolis, MN


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: CVS access for comments only

body:
Phil Boswell wrote:

> I don't consider myself up-to-speed enough in PHP to contribute actual
> code, but I would like to help in documenting what's there.

If you're talking about commenting the source code, you can submit
patches for that here.

If you're talking about helping with writing the User Manual, that's at
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User's_Guide.

Greetings,
Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: fr.wikipedia is in UTF-8 now, and it works !

body:
Camille Constans wrote:

> Two weeks agos, fr decided to go to UTF-8. Now we can say, that fr is working fine :)
>
> Some problems we had :
> - Pbs with illegal windows caracters (which are not in ISO8859-1).

The next time conversion is attempted, it should probably be set to
convert from Windows-1252 to UTF-8 rather than ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8.

Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Jason is back

body:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:27:09 +0200
Gabriel Wicke <groups at gabrielwicke.de> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:08:22 -0800, Jason Richey wrote:
>
> > Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
> > tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
> > technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
> > with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
> > our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
> > within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
> > morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
> > server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.
> >
> > Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
> > do we want?  What will we settle for?
>
> Given how long this took i would propose a refund and a quick order to
> another vendor. And as much ram as possible, cpu on suda is mostly idle
> with the disk doing substantial i/o.
> --
> Gabriel Wicke

Have i yet said it would be nice to have a faster and larger disk system than Suda ?
A Raid 10, like Geoffrin, with 4 or 6 15000rpm disks. We would be quiet for some times :)

Shaihulud


from_name: Phil Boswell

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Phil Boswell wrote:
>> I don't consider myself up-to-speed enough in PHP to contribute actual
>> code, but I would like to help in documenting what's there.
> If you're talking about commenting the source code, you can submit
> patches for that here.

This is the one. What is the preferred format?

> If you're talking about helping with writing the User Manual, that's at
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User's_Guide.

That can wait until I figure out what's going on :-)
--
Phil


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Jason is back

body:
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:12:09 +0200
Camille Constans <wikipedia at shaihome.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:27:09 +0200
> Gabriel Wicke <groups at gabrielwicke.de> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:08:22 -0800, Jason Richey wrote:
> >
> > > Bad news on Geoffrin...  I called Penguin and talked to one of their
> > > tech support guys.  Basically, they can't make the thing work.  The
> > > technical guy (Aaron) said that he doesn't know what's going to happen
> > > with THAT server next.  He said that he was going to hand it off to
> > > our sales rep, and that I would receive a call from him (hopefully)
> > > within a couple of hours.  No call.  So, I'll call them again in the
> > > morning.  I imagine that the sales rep will be offering a replacement
> > > server (and maybe something for our trouble), or a refund.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on what I should be saying when I talk to the rep?  What
> > > do we want?  What will we settle for?
> >
> > Given how long this took i would propose a refund and a quick order to
> > another vendor. And as much ram as possible, cpu on suda is mostly idle
> > with the disk doing substantial i/o.
> > --
> > Gabriel Wicke
>
> Have i yet said it would be nice to have a faster and larger disk system than Suda ?
> A Raid 10, like Geoffrin, with 4 or 6 15000rpm disks. We would be quiet for some times :)

I forgot to add : Quickly !!! Only 3Go left on Suda, and without bin log which take 1,5Go per day....

Shaihulud


body:
I don't see any problem. Try to force your browser to reload the page (with
Ctrl + F5 in Mozilla/IE), perhaps you seeing an old cached version.

Aoineko

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Holton" <rich_holton at yahoo.com>
To: <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Extension syntax discussion and vote

> There is presently something very un-good about the
> Extension Syntax page:
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax
>
> The current revision shows only a fraction of the
> content, yet when I try to follow the revision history
> it doesn't correspond with the current state.
>
> There must be something rather dramatic wrong
> somewhere...
>
> -Rich Holton
>
> --- Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> > Erik Moeller wrote:
> >
> > >All,
> > >
> > >please participate on:
> > >
> > >http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax
> > >
> > >We are trying to develop a standardized syntax for
> > extensions such as the
> > >LaTeX extension for mathematical formulas, the
> > upcoming hieroglyphs
> > >extension, the SVG extension etc.
> > >
> > >There will be a brainstorming phase until April 4,
> > after which we will
> > >vote on these different proposals.
> > >
> > >This will hopefully allow us to finally start
> > working on a generalized
> > >extension interface.
> > >
> > I don't oppose this initiative, but I when I read
> > the meta page I was
> > quick to realize that many of the proposals were
> > beyond my
> > comprehension.  I would have a great deal of
> > difficulty in arriving at
> > an informed vote.  I'm sure that I'm not alone in
> > that observation.
> >
> > Most of us in most subjects deal strictly with text,
> > and a significant
> > number can manage the technology of uploading
> > pictures.  The really
> > adventurous may be able to manage a simple HTML
> > table.  Life should
> > remain as simple as possible for these people, and
> > expanding
> > technological functions should not diminish their
> > ability to contribute.
> >
> > I nevertheless recognize that some subject areas
> > require more
> > sophisticated approaches, and that these should be
> > made available.  A
> > modularized approach may be productive.  A person
> > interested in a
> > cartographic interface may not be interested in
> > learning how to
> > represent mathematical formulas or musical notation.
> >  Thus, learning one
> > of these extensions should be able to proceed
> > without the need to learn
> > the others, even when there is significant overlap
> > between two extensions.
> >
> > Ec
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Jason is back

body:
Gabriel-
> Given how long this took i would propose a refund and a quick order to
> another vendor. And as much ram as possible, cpu on suda is mostly idle
> with the disk doing substantial i/o.

I agree with Gabriel. Moreover, we should order the replacement *now*, as
we do still have more than enough money in the bank, and resolve the
issues with Penguin Computing over the next few weeks.

Regards,

Erik


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Please clarify the honorary administrator status

body:
Before voting to our honorary administrators (also called steward,
super-admin, etc.) I like someone (Tim?) clarify the role of this new
status.

First, what is the goal:
- Manage new Wikipedia where there are no administrators?
- Become a new level over bureaucrats for all Wikipedia?
- Something else?

What specific feature will they have:
- Same as bureaucrat, but Wikimedia wide?
- More than bureaucrat (for example only HA may be able to remove admini
status, or give bot status)?
- Something else?

Aoineko


from_name: Angela

body:
 --- Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote: >
> does the contributions count on this page:
>
http://www.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/TablesWikipediaEN.htm
> only include contributions in the article namespace

It is only the article namespace. As the stats page
says "only article edits are counted, not edits on
discussion pages, etc". [[Wikipedia:List of
Wikipedians by number of edits]] confirms this; "Note
that this list counts ONLY main namespace edits. It
does not count talk:, Wikipedia: and similar
namespaces."

Ram-Man used to provide statistics on the total number
of edits people but that hasn't been updated since
last July
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits&oldid=2774091).

Angela.

___________________________________________________________
WIN FREE WORLDWIDE FLIGHTS - nominate a cafe in the Yahoo! Mail Internet Cafe Awards  www.yahoo.co.uk/internetcafes


subject: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

body:
Thanks this seems to work no.

----- Original Message -----
From: "KNOTT, T" <tknott at qcl.org.uk>
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Why am I blocked ?

>
>
>
> >It was the proxy blocker. But how does it work ? I use Squid cache but
> >there should be no way to connect on my proxy port from the Net.
> >I've added some acl to allow only my internal network IP should I do
> >something else ?
>
> I'll let someone else answer this as I haven't got a clue.
>
> >How can I be unblocked ?
>
> I've unblocked you, but I don't know if the proxy blocker will just
> block you again when you try to edit. Have you tried creating an account
> and logging in ?
>
> Theresa
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


subject: [WikiEN-l] Biography entries

body:
Both email addresses I can find on these pages return "user unknown".

Imran Ghory wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Magnus Manske wrote:
>
>
>>I have tried three different email addresses to reach the original
>>author of these entries, presumably named Eric Tentarelli. All seem to
>>be down. Any help in tracking him down would be appreciated.
>
>
> I'm not certain but I believe Eric's responsible for the current version
> of the dictionary available at s9.com.
>
> Imran


from_name: A

from_email: A

subject: [WikiEN-l] we need a new mediation committee

body:
As Anthere noted, most attempts at mediation have
failed. This is because the mediation committee is
rude and elitist -- it refuses to "dirty its hands" or
make any genuine efforts to facilitate mediation.

After I accumulated several wasted hours of
petitioning the committee, they have refused to even
attempt to leave some posts (at relevant article talk
pages) and invite users to accept or embark upon
mediation. In short, THEY HAVE NOT EVEN TRIED TO
MEDIATE.

I hope you all have a great deal of fun with your edit
wars. You will only have more and more, more and more
-- you can ban trolls all day long, there will always
be more people to disagree with you. The mediation
committee is not doing its job, and the next time
someone reverts you without explanation -- you can
thank them.

I propose that everyone on the mediation committee be
awarded the Barnstar of Banal Bureaucratic Pride.

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
Anthere wrote:
>Since mediation are usually done by only one mediator,
>how do you think we  could do this ? It happened that
>some cases were discussed a bit with other mediators,
>for support, but since mediation is private; and what
>is said is private, how could the opinion of the full
>committe have more  weight that the opinion of the
>mediator only ?

All mediators should be trustworthy enough to consult among themselves without
exposing details of any matter to the general usership, methinks. But I won't
even begin to pretend that I should have much or any say over the affairs of
another committee.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html


subject: [WikiEN-l] Ed Poor

body:
Ed said the below to Iris. Shouldn't such juvenile
threats be grounds for immediate desysoping? Who says
there isn't a cabal -- this post proves that there is,
and Ed is a member.

----------------------------------------

Iris, shut up and get back to work! You are wasting
everyone's time. Either help us to write accurate
[[NPOV]] articles, or leave.

I don't give a rat's ass about whether natural health
or iridology or zone manipulation are true or not.
Just make your case for them, and leave it for the
reader to decide.

People have bent over backwards to accomodate you,
mostly out of a pure concern for fairness and justice.
You have eroded all the good will left in my body. Any
more crap out of you, and I will "take steps". Better
listen up good, because I'm one the oldest "old hands"
around here and I know how to work the system. Don't
get me riled up against you, or I will force you out!!
(A word to the wise is sufficient.) --[[User:Ed
Poor|Uncle Ed]] 14:14, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_review_of_admin_actions&diff=2982058&oldid=2981833

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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