from_name: Evan Prodromou

subject: [Wikitech-l] Contributors list

body:
So, I'd like to add a little block of attribution data to each page
(optional, per-installation; I'm guessing Wikipedia wouldn't use
this). Something along the lines of:

       This article last edited on April 21, 2004 by Evan Prodromou.
       Based on work by Alice Notaperson, Bob Alsonotaperson, users
       Crankshaft, Deckchair and Eggplant, and anonymous editors.

For each (distinct) person who's listed in the old table, it'd show
their real name if it's set, or their user name if not. All anonymous
edits would be lumped under "anonymous editors". Contributors would be
listed with real-named folks first, then pseudo'd folks, then
anonymous. There's no particular reason for that; it could be any
other way (although I don't see a big point making it configurable).

The goal here is to make it easy for redistributors to comply with
license provisions that require author attribution (such as some
Creative Commons licenses), without having to dig through a whole
bunch of history pages.

Anyhoo, the Metadata.php code already does most of this logic, albeit
for output in RDF format. I'd like to take that stuff and put it in
the Article class, in a method like "getContributors". The method
could then be used both from the attribution code and from the RDF
metadata code.

getContributors would return an array of arrays, each of which would
contain:

        0. User ID
        1. User account name
        2. User real name, if set

Another option would be to create User objects for each entry in the
returned array, but a) I don't think that most of the User object
fields (email, preferences) are needed, and b) I'd be worried about
slingin' around incomplete User objects. So, I think the arrays are
the best bet.

Does returning an array of arrays seem insane? Would it be wrong to
add this method to Article? If so, where else would it go?

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Gabriel Wicke

subject: [Wikitech-l] wiki-indexed.png

body:
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 13:05 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
> I really don't think it's a good idea to have separate hard-coded logo
> image files for IE and everything else. It's already bad enough that
> you have to overwrite files installed as part of MediaWiki to set the
> logo displayed by Monobook (*separately* from the other skins), now you
> have to do two, and remember to do the one that your browser never
> shows?
>
> It just seems like a lot of trouble to maintain.

They could both be indexed, but i wouldn't like the indexed look in a
modern browser, especially with the book behind it. The png hack for ie
doesn't seem to work with some versions of 6.0. Giving ie an opaque
background might be ok for the mediawiki logo, but imo not for a real
site.
If the default logo was placed in the main style dir relative paths to
that one would be possible as well. Any objections against this?

Furthermore, the indexed ie version can be commented out by default in
the release if needed to avoid newbie woes.
--
Gabriel Wicke


from_name: Magnus Manske

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Categories, once again

body:
Erik Moeller wrote:

>Please turn E_NOTICE on in your PHP config. We use E_NOTICE now for
>debugging purposes.
>
>
Really? I even turn off all C/C++ warnings. Who cares if it's a signed
or unsigned integer, anyway? ;-)
OK, turned on. New version doesn't complain no more.

>I've seen quite a bit of strange behavior (including such things as
>templates being listed as subcategories), but let's start with this stuff.
>
>
???
I have enabled all pages that use [[Category:xyz]] to show up on
Category:xyz. Should that rather be restricted to article namespace?

>Incidentally, it would be very useful if you would add some comments to
>your code. Presently the only comments in the function categoryMagic()
>are:
>
># Children
># Articles
>
>Neither of which is particularly informative ..
>
>
Anyone remembering the original Phase II code should know that my work
usually has *less* comments than this;-)

OK, some comments are in place.

Magnus


from_name: Luc Van Oostenryck

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS]
	phase3/includes	SpecialDeadendpages.php, 1.4, 1.5

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
>
> On Apr 21, 2004, at 14:02, Luc Van Oostenryck wrote:
>
>> Modified Files:
>>     SpecialDeadendpages.php
>> Log Message:
>> Don't include redirects in dead-end pages
>
>
> By definition there should *be* no dead-end redirects, unless they are
> faulty. So... we'd _want_ to see them if there are any, right?
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Well, the problem does mean a dead-end redirect?
On the french wikipedia, a good proportion of the pages listed on Special:DeadendPages
are "normal" redirects to non-dead-end articles pages.
Is this the desired behaviour?

-- Looxix


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS]	phase3/includes
	SpecialDeadendpages.php, 1.4, 1.5

in_reply_to:
<4086FAE9.8090309@easynet.be> (Luc Van Oostenryck's message of
	"Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:51:21 +0200")

body:
>>>>> "LVO" == Luc Van Oostenryck <luc.vanoostenryck at easynet.be> writes:

    LVO> Well, the problem does mean a dead-end redirect?  On the
    LVO> french wikipedia, a good proportion of the pages listed on
    LVO> Special:DeadendPages are "normal" redirects to non-dead-end
    LVO> articles pages.  Is this the desired behaviour?

I'm pretty sure not.

Dead-end pages is only supposed to find pages that have no links in
the links table. Pages are only supposed to be marked as redirects if
they've got one link -- the redirect link.

So, like, the definition of a redirect is that it has 1 link, and a
dead-end page has 0 links. 1 != 0. So this shouldn't happen.

So something Very Wrong is going on.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] phase3/includes
	SpecialDeadendpages.php, 1.4, 1.5

body:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:23:35 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:

> On Apr 21, 2004, at 14:02, Luc Van Oostenryck wrote:
>> Modified Files:
>> 	SpecialDeadendpages.php
>> Log Message:
>> Don't include redirects in dead-end pages
>
> By definition there should *be* no dead-end redirects, unless they are
> faulty. So... we'd _want_ to see them if there are any, right?
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

But we already have a "broken redirect" special page for that matter. ;)

--
Ashar Voultoiz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar


subject: [Wikitech-l] Contributors list

body:
>>>>> "BV" == Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> writes:

    Me> So, I'd like to add a little block of attribution data to each
    Me> page (optional, per-installation; I'm guessing Wikipedia
    Me> wouldn't use this).

    BV> The clear problem with this is that it doesn't scale well. The
    BV> list will increase and increase and increase on popular pages,
    BV> and on some pages could literally contain hundreds, maybe
    BV> thousands of distinct names.

This is a good point, and one I was trying to finesse by not thinking
about it. B-)

    BV> It would probably be a good idea to limit it to the last N
    BV> editors, where N is some sensible number.

Maybe limit it to N, and if there's overflow put it on a separate
page.

Actually, that'd be a good way to set the global variable:

          $wgMaxAttributions = 0;

...means don't show this little paragraph at all.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Embedded MathML?

body:
On Apr 20, 2004, at 08:06, Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
> Extending texvc to support real mathml is quite simple. I didn't do it
> yet because:
> * it can't be used without xhtml
> * I don't have any browser that supports mathml (mozilla on Debian has
> serious
>   fonts problems with math), so I can't test it
>
> If we ever start producing xhtml, I'll add real mathml support.

I've gone ahead and added an experimental MathML option which can be
selected in preferences. It'll only actually work in the browser if
using an XML content type, so set something like this in localsettings:

$wgMimeType = "application/xhtml+xml";

XHTML output is not always perfect, and this mode will cause Mozilla to
refuse to display any page that's not well-formed. If you find such
pages, those are bugs to be fixed in the parser somewhere...

I've also done some refactoring on Math.php to reduce some of the
duplication and weirdness, but it's still kind of scary. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Mathias Schindler

subject: [Wikitech-l] Webby awards

body:
Jimmy Wales schrieb:

>>Sorry for being sarcastic, but do you think an 'award' won in this
>>manner has any merit?
>
>
> I don't know -- Newsweek interviewed me today, does that seem
> worthwhile?

We had several pieces in German media mentioning the webby awards and
mentioning wikipedia. Unfortunatly, dpa (news agency) did not mention
wikipedia, they focussed on al jazeera and some german-only
participants. From that point of view, it was already worth it. If
wikipedia wins (chances are certainly above 0 per cent), this could
unleash a hord of new people coming to wikipedia. I would love to see
that 10K articles in 19 days again. 10K brilliant prose articles, of
course :)

Together with time magazine, newsweek is quite popular here. Does "they
interviewed me today" mean that there will be an article on wikipedia in
the near future or is this just some sort of preparational stuff for the
awards?

Mathias
--
nach uns der synflood.


from_name: Richard Ames

subject: [Wikitech-l] Static Test - Empty???

body:
I succeeded in changing the static text for [[MediaWiki:Fromwikipedia]]
and [[MediaWiki:Gnunote]] but if you leave them empty the default text
appears.

Is this expected behavior?

What do I enter for nothing to appear on the served page in the
respective place?

Thanks for the great product, Richard.


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Webby awards

body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
> To reach people who are most likely to be motivated to vote for us,
> which means people who actually write on wikipedia, I recommend some
> bold text on the edit screen, just below the "Save page" button,
> saying something like "If you have a couple of minutes, we'd really
> appreciate your going to vote for Wikipedia at the People's Choice
> Webby Awards."  And a link there of course to the peoplesvoice page.
>
> Additionally, since everyone who is anyone views Recent Changes, some
> similar text there would likely be helpful.
>
> ----
>
> Additionally, we should take some of the suggestions from
> "How_to_Make_The_Most.doc" page (from the download page, see link
> above) and place them on a meta page, to be linked from all the above
> places.  The gist of the message we should get out to people is "Go
> here to vote for us, and go here for other ways to
> help."

Notices were added to [[MediaWiki:Watchdetails]],
[[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]] and [[Wikipedia:Recentchanges]], but were
removed by Martin and Wik. Martin explained:

"I recommend we ignore Jimbo's recommendation, get on with creating an
encyclopedia, and forget about random award ceremonies. People only need
to be told about this once, at most, not every time they edit every
page. Martin 22:59, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk%3AWatchdetails#Webbys

-- Tim Starling


subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

body:
On Apr 22, 2004, at 07:43, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable"
> release or
> if there is still some work to be done.
>
> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If
> not
> wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)

Fix bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, and bugs.

Documentation updates.

Additional touches to in-place install. Removal of the old, dangerous
command-line install. Getting maintenance scripts usable (but safe) in
the in-place environment.

Make sure upgrading from previous versions is a clean, easy process.

Finish cleaning up Preferences.

MonoBook is still missing the occasional bit (for instance, there is no
printable-version or RSS link.)

Update all the language files with new stuff.

Finish Special:Import.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Walter Vermeir

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Webby awards

body:
Ashar Voultoiz <thoane at ...> writes:

> I will not give my email address to spammers :p

Good solutions for this type of registrations;

http://www.spam.la/  very easy, very unsafe

http://www.spammotel.com/ easy, sometimes slow, do not use it for a mailing list

Walter


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Sistla Sreerama

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Carnatic Music of India

body:
Hi
I want to contribute Carnatic music lyrics by
Thyagaraja and Annamacharya. The lyrics will be in
Telugu with Hindi and English Transliteration (as per
iTransliteration scheme). Please let me know the
procedure.
Regards
Sree Sistla

=====
Om tatsat Om tatsat Om tatsat
With Best Regards
Sree Sistla

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca


subject: [Wikitech-l] Single log in - a concept that might actually work

body:
Holy crap, that's a lot of work.

What about just tagging articles in cur and old with a language code
('en', 'fr', 'akk'), and putting them all in one big database?

Users' interface language (the navitorial stuff) is determined by
their browser settings.

That doesn't solve the problem for other wikis (-tionary, -books), but
it does cut down on a lot of differences. Also, it makes interwiki
links a lot easier to detect and fix.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


subject: [Wikitech-l] A bug? or not a bug?

body:
On Apr 22, 2004, at 10:03, T?n PekTiong wrote:
> I just installed a MediaWiki 1.2.4 on my webhost. The in place install
> works well, that is great.
> But later we find something strange.
> If we try to do [[?]] or [[?]], it won't work properly. We also find
> that [[a-?]] is OK, but [[?-p?]] is messed up.
> If we try the same thing on wikipedia.org, everything works fine. On
> my powerbook with OSX , everything is fine too.

If it's configured for English, Unicode case folding may not be set up
properly, and it can corrupt some non-ASCII characters appearing at the
beginning of a title.

Set $wgLanguageCode appropriately in LocalSettings.php and it should
kick in the UTF-8 module. Let me know if that fixes things...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Jakob

subject: [Wikitech-l] rebuildall.php

body:
Hi!

After installing MediaWiki, downloading and importing the SQL-dump I failed
rebuilding the link-tables with 'rebuildall.php'.

Invoking it from command line I get the error message:

> Can't use command-line utils with in-place install yet, sorry.

What may this mean?

Thanks a lot,
  Jakob


from_name: Wikipedia

subject: [Wikipedia-l] new wiktionary

body:
And please one in romanian too, at ro.wiktionary.org !
Thank you! Bye!

BTW, can I get some information on launching the aromanian Wikipedia, at ars.wikipedia.org. I've been waiting to much time and I havn't got any replies.

"Thomas R. Koll" <tomk32 at gmx.de> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 06:54:55PM +0200, Peter Gervai wrote:
> hello,
>
> excuse me but I missed the way how to start up a new wiktionary in my own
> language. anyone could enlighten me please?
>
> can we use hu.wikipedia.org for the base? could we start it now? :)

and also one for de: please.

ciao, tom
--
== Weblinks ==
* http://www.tomk32.de - just a geek trying to change the world
* http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:TomK32 - Free Knowledge
* http://tomk32.bookcrossing.com - Free Books
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

---------------------------------
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subject:
[Wikitech-l] wiki-indexed.png / small project for js dev:
	activex detection

body:
We found a solution that circumvents the maintainability problem by
specifying the image path in the xhtml source (uses the default $wgLogo
now).

The png fix function is switched on again but needs some improvement: In
some versions of IE6 with some security configurations it pops up
ActiveX warnings which is highly annoying.

Finding a way to detect ActiveX would be a cool small project for
somebody with ie/js skills. The file to hack is
http://test.wikipedia.org/style/IEFixes.js. Fixalpha should only fire if
the filter is allowed to execute.

Any takers?
--
Gabriel Wicke
http://www.aulinx.de
Plone, Zope and MediaWiki hosting & development


subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

body:
Hello there,

This message is mostly for the core developper team (the guys that keep
flooding cvs with HUGE changes and new features).

As I still havent found any roadmap for the development of mediawiki, I
will assume the main page of test.wikipedia.org act as a roadmap.

The new features are:
* New skin
* Links in thumbnails
* Template syntax
* Tweaks to localisation
* Automatic conflig merging
* Greyed subsection in comments
* Categories
* XML Import
* RSS syndication
* Hieroglyphs

I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable" release or
if there is still some work to be done.

If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If not
wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar


from_name: Jens Frank

subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

body:
On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:43:40PM +0200, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> This message is mostly for the core developper team (the guys that keep
> flooding cvs with HUGE changes and new features).
>
> As I still havent found any roadmap for the development of mediawiki, I
> will assume the main page of test.wikipedia.org act as a roadmap.
>
> The new features are:
> * New skin
> * Links in thumbnails
> * Template syntax
> * Tweaks to localisation
> * Automatic conflig merging
> * Greyed subsection in comments
> * Categories
> * XML Import
> * RSS syndication
> * Hieroglyphs
>
> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable" release or
> if there is still some work to be done.

> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If not
> wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)

My ToDo-list:
* Change CSS to use new thumbnail layout
  (while at it, try to use two CSS files per page, one for common settings,
  one for skin-specific settings)
* Re-add code for processing of non-breakable space for French typography.
  French uses a space between some punctuation and the next/previous word,
  that is supposed to be non-breakable. e.g. ? Qu'est-ce-que c'est ? ?
  Only the middle space may be used as a line break.

ToDo's I would prefer someone else to do, since I'm not familiar with the code:

* rebuildlinks.php etc don't work when doing a in-place installation.
* command line installation doesn't work.

Regards,

	JeLuF


subject: [Wikitech-l] iconv problems?

body:
On Apr 22, 2004, at 16:06, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> Modified Files:
> 	Language.php
> Log Message:
> sileced iconv for now

What messages were you getting out of it? I'd prefer to fix if
possible...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: A bug? or not a bug?

body:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:03:33 +0800, T?n PekTiong wrote:

> I just installed a MediaWiki 1.2.4 on my webhost. The in place install
> works well, that is great.
> But later we find something strange.
> If we try to do [[?]] or [[?]], it won't work properly. We also find
> that [[a-?]] is OK, but [[?-p?]] is messed up.
> If we try the same thing on wikipedia.org, everything works fine. On my
> powerbook with OSX , everything is fine too.
>
> On my webhost, they are running
> php 4.3.4 and mysql 4.0.18-standard
> On my powerbook, I am running
> php 4.3.2 and mysql 4.0.15
>
> Since there is no error during the installation and two installation on
> almost the same php/mysql version give different results.
> I have no idea where does the problem comes from and How do I fix it.
>
> Anybody have any idea?
>
> Best
> Pektiong

Hello,
Maybe your web host doesnt send the page as utf-8 ?
What's happening exactly ? Can you reach the pages ? Do you have any error
prompting ?

Is the wiki on your webhost is publicly available so we can make tests ? :)

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar


body:
OK, here's the plan:

1. We disallow the creation of new users (for the following, which won't
take long)

2. We add a "user_single_id" field in the user table of each wikipedia,
initially 0

3. We generate a list from all wikipedias, containing user name and user
password hash

4. We merge every two entries on our list (#3) that have both the same
name *and* the same password hash (same name and password = same user)

5. We create a new, separate user database

6. We fill it with all unique user names from our list, and fill the
"user_single_id" for every user with that name in all wikipedias the
"user_id" from the new database

7. We generate a new user in our new database for each remaining
'double' from out list; its password hash is blanked

8. We allow creating user names again (see, didn't take *that* long:-)
with the following mechanism:

* New users can *only* be created if that user name isn't already taken
in the new database, where it will then be added
* The 'local' wikipedia database gets a new user account as well, with
the "user_id" set to the "user_single_id" from the new database

A user trying to log in evokes the following rules:
* If there is no user in the local database with that name, password is
checked against the new database; if it matches, a local account is created
* If the "user_single_id" is *non-zero*, password is checked against the
new database
* If the "user_single_id" is *zero*, password is checked against the
local database

For any user with a conflicting user name, that means (s)he can still
log on to the usual wikis, but can't create new accounts on other
wikipedias under that name.

REASOING:
* Easy to set up (new db and a script)
* Minor changes to the MediaWiki scripts (login and preferences only)
* Minor changes to the database (adding a single field)
* Everyone can keep working under his/her username
* Most users can instantly enjoy the new, unified login
* Conflicting user names can be easily listed and resolved in time
* New functions (My contributions/Watchlist/Recent changes in all
wikipedias) can be introduced over time

Comments? Volunteers? ;-)

Magnus


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re:
	[MediaWiki-CVS]	phase3/includes	SpecialDeadendpages.php, 1.4, 1.5

body:
Evan Prodromou wrote:
>>>>>>"LVO" == Luc Van Oostenryck <luc.vanoostenryck at easynet.be> writes:
>
>
>     LVO> Well, the problem does mean a dead-end redirect?  On the
>     LVO> french wikipedia, a good proportion of the pages listed on
>     LVO> Special:DeadendPages are "normal" redirects to non-dead-end
>     LVO> articles pages.  Is this the desired behaviour?
>
> I'm pretty sure not.
>
> Dead-end pages is only supposed to find pages that have no links in
> the links table. Pages are only supposed to be marked as redirects if
> they've got one link -- the redirect link.
>
> So, like, the definition of a redirect is that it has 1 link, and a
> dead-end page has 0 links. 1 != 0. So this shouldn't happen.
>
> So something Very Wrong is going on.
>
> ~ESP
>

I'm not sure at all but I think the problem is
in the
	"FROM cur LEFT JOIN links ON cur_id = l_from" part.
Shouldn't this be
	"FROM cur LEFT JOIN links ON cur_id = l_to" ?

-- Looxix


list: wikien-l

from_name: Imran Ghory

subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyediting of material from embargoed nations

body:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Fred Bauder wrote:

> The prior decision which prohibited editing of written material from
> embargoed nations such as Iran and North Korea has been reversed.

As far as I can see it only covers minor editing, coauthoring is still
prohibited.

Imran
--
http://bits.bris.ac.uk/imran


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: WAP interface (was Re: gopher-support for Apache2
	...)

body:
David Friedland wrote:

> However, a WAP interface to the Wikipedia---I could definitely see using
> that. Does anyone know what is involved in making WAP interfaces? I
> could definitely see making a read-only interface to looking up
> information... as for editing via mobile phone, I think I'd rather stick
> knitting needles into my eyes.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Blaub%E4r of the German wikipedia
has written a prototype of a WAP interface for wikipedia but it seems to
be down at the moment.

greetings,
elian


from_name: Tomasz Wegrzanowski

body:
On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:13:14PM +0200, Magnus Manske wrote:
> 4. We merge every two entries on our list (#3) that have both the same
> name *and* the same password hash (same name and password = same user)

Uhm, but I don't have the same password on different Wikipedias.
In fact I don't use any password unless I'm a sysop.

Is it unusual ?


from_name: Tân PekTiong

subject: [Wikitech-l] A bug? or not a bug?

body:
I just installed a MediaWiki 1.2.4 on my webhost. The in place install
works well, that is great.
But later we find something strange.
If we try to do [[?]] or [[?]], it won't work properly. We also find
that [[a-?]] is OK, but [[?-p?]] is messed up.
If we try the same thing on wikipedia.org, everything works fine. On my
powerbook with OSX , everything is fine too.

On my webhost, they are running
php 4.3.4 and mysql 4.0.18-standard
On my powerbook, I am running
php 4.3.2 and mysql 4.0.15

Since there is no error during the installation and two installation on
almost the same php/mysql version give different results.
I have no idea where does the problem comes from and How do I fix it.

Anybody have any idea?

Best
Pektiong


subject: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual interface

body:
On Apr 23, 2004, at 03:57, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> I have managed to make changes to code which enable users to choose
> their user
> interface language, feature sought at Wikisource, Wiktionary etc. To
> whom
> should I send the code?

Same place you're posting this question. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Mr Paul Vogel

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Fwd: LYNCH MOB against Paul Vogel by the usual ilk of
	Censorous Lying Hypocrites, Jimmy.

body:
EVERYONE that is a user and contributor to this Wiki
Project NEEDS to become AWARE of what is GOING ON
about this ABUSIVE POWER GRAB by a SMALL ILK or GROUP
of CENSOROUS POV BIGOTS within the WIKI community
project while Jimmy Wales is away in Europe that are
falsely and slanderously always attempting to BAN,
BLOCK, and CENSOR ME.

If you do let them get away with this,
YOU could be CENSORED and BANNED, NEXT!

Best regards,

Paul Vogel
http://www.cosmotheism.net
------------------------------------------------------

Note: forwarded message attached.

__________________________________
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From: Mr Paul Vogel <bannedneedle at yahoo.com>
Subject: LYNCH MOB against Paul Vogel by the usual ilk of Censorous Lying
	Hypocrites, Jimmy.
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
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subject: [Wikipedia-l] voting snapshot at webbyawards

body:
best practices:

wikipedia: 31%
google: 48%

community:

wikipedia 17%
livejournal: 63%

 From the development of the last days, at least "best practices"
behaved in a credible way. If all theses numbers can be attributed to
this "Dr. Dean"-effect - start early, die early - is beyond my knowledge.
--
nach uns der synflood.


from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Fwd: LYNCH MOB against Paul Vogel by the usual ilk
	ofCensorous Lying Hypocrites, Jimmy.

body:
Please let me be next, it's my turn! I've waited LONGER than you, no
fair! :-)

Thanks.

Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed


subject: [WikiEN-l] TDC 3x revert rule

body:
I created a quickpoll on TDC for violating the 3x/day revert rule. How
should I publicize this? Is there a way to alert all users, like a
little notice on the main page or when they log in?

Uncle Ed


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: A bug? or not a bug?

body:
I forget to say that, to see what went wrong, you can check this page
http://www.holopedia.org/
Other characters in utf8 seems OK.

Pektiong
On Apr 23, 2004, at 1:12 AM, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:03:33 +0800, T?n PekTiong wrote:
>
>> I just installed a MediaWiki 1.2.4 on my webhost. The in place install
>> works well, that is great.
>> But later we find something strange.
>> If we try to do [[?]] or [[?]], it won't work properly. We also find
>> that [[a-?]] is OK, but [[?-p?]] is messed up.
>> If we try the same thing on wikipedia.org, everything works fine. On
>> my
>> powerbook with OSX , everything is fine too.
>>
>> On my webhost, they are running
>> php 4.3.4 and mysql 4.0.18-standard
>> On my powerbook, I am running
>> php 4.3.2 and mysql 4.0.15
>>
>> Since there is no error during the installation and two installation
>> on
>> almost the same php/mysql version give different results.
>> I have no idea where does the problem comes from and How do I fix it.
>>
>> Anybody have any idea?
>>
>> Best
>> Pektiong
>
> Hello,
> Maybe your web host doesnt send the page as utf-8 ?
> What's happening exactly ? Can you reach the pages ? Do you have any
> error
> prompting ?
>
> Is the wiki on your webhost is publicly available so we can make tests
> ? :)
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Fred Bauder

subject: [WikiEN-l] TDC 3x revert rule

body:
Good questions, often these quickpolls are over and the alleged offender is
baned before those who might support them find out about it. You have to
constantly monitor quickpolls to see who's in the dock. By the way Ed, was
TDC reverting himself or was there someone or several someones who were
reverting his edits? How did you decide those parties were not also listed
at quickpoll?

Fred

> From: "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:45:34 -0400
> To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] TDC 3x revert rule
>
> I created a quickpoll on TDC for violating the 3x/day revert rule. How
> should I publicize this? Is there a way to alert all users, like a
> little notice on the main page or when they log in?
>
> Uncle Ed
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Magnus Manske

body:
Evan Prodromou wrote:

>Holy crap, that's a lot of work.
>
>
For the task at hand, I don't think it is. The to-do-list is just very
detailed.

>What about just tagging articles in cur and old with a language code
>('en', 'fr', 'akk'), and putting them all in one big database?
>
>
How would that lead to a single log-in? And all the user IDs for the
edits would be wrong. You'd have to renumber all of them, both in cur
and old, as well as in user. And then, how to unify the user table? Just
add'em as they come? Half a dozen "Magnus Manske" users in the user
table? You'd have to merge them somehow. Wait - that's my proposal... ;-)

>Users' interface language (the navitorial stuff) is determined by
>their browser settings.
>
>
We can do that already without changing anything in the database. But
IMHO that'd be a bad idea. Better, in my proposed new user database, let
the user *choose* the interface language.

>That doesn't solve the problem for other wikis (-tionary, -books), but
>it does cut down on a lot of differences. Also, it makes interwiki
>links a lot easier to detect and fix.
>
>
Well, my proposal *would* solve the problem for wiktionary/wikibooks.
And I already had an interwiki management demo running once, with
separate databases. The main point with interwiki links is to get them
out of the article source and into a decent table. It would make sense
to generate a single table for all interwiki links, granted. It could
reside in the same database as my new user table. Which is exactly what
I proposed about a year ago...

Magnus


body:
Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:

>On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:13:14PM +0200, Magnus Manske wrote:
>
>
>>4. We merge every two entries on our list (#3) that have both the same
>>name *and* the same password hash (same name and password = same user)
>>
>>
>
>Uhm, but I don't have the same password on different Wikipedias.
>In fact I don't use any password unless I'm a sysop.
>
>Is it unusual ?
>
>
>
I don't know if that's unusual. I, for one, use the same password on all
wikipedias. Anyway, nothing would change for you through my proposal,
except that you can't create new users of the same name anymore. That
is, until we resolved all instances of your user name belonging to you.
Then we'd merge it like we did the others.

Magnus


from_name: Karl Ross

body:
Vogel, You?re inflaming this situation unnecessarily.  There is no conspiracy or cabal plotting against you. You need to calm down and get a hold of yourself before continuing in this behavior. You are only hurting yourself.

Your views, no matter how offensive others might consider them, were not the reason you were banned. The behavior you engaged in was. By vandalizing pages, engaging in excessive reverts and circumventing temp bans you put yourself in this position.

Take some time off wikipedia, collect your thoughts, review the editing rules and come back  -after- your ban expires refreshed and ready to contribute.

No one that I know of wants to suppress your contributions, they want you to make them in the way stated by wikipedia policy and deal with conflict in a more calm and rational matter. I am sure if you come back and behave yourself and make good contributions all will be forgotten. Thanks and good luck.

-Graz

 (GrazingshipIV)

---------------------------------
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from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Python Wikipediabot release

body:
I have added a new release of the Python Wikipediabot package, it can be
found at
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=93107&package_id=98691 .

There are now several packages in the release, but if you download
pywikipediabot.zip, you don't need to worry about the others, as they
are only parts of it, containing the files necessary for specific uses
of the bot.

Changes to the bot since my previous message on April 6:

* A new bot, windows_chars.py, has been included, changing windows characters
  that are not in Latin-1 into their HTML-encoding. It is advisable to use
  this bot (or another one with the same working, developped by Looxix) before
  switching a Wikipedia from Latin-1 to UTF-8.
* When using the bot to transfer images from one Wikipedia to another, the
  image description page of the language the image is taken from is used as
  the base for a default description. Also, this bot now is able to handle
  redirect pages.
* When the interwiki-bot finds links to different pages on the same language,
  those are first given to the user to decide on, rather than having them
  mixed up with languages for which just one page was found. Also, the options
  to 'say yes to all' and 'give up' have been included
* Several bugs in the uploading of images have been repaired.
* boilerplate.py now can also be used to change {{msg:...}}-messages
  into written-out messages (using {{subst:...}})
* The table copying and translating bot has had several bug repairs and minor
  improvements. It now works for French departments.
* The bot now handles localized redirect text (for the moment that includes
  only the #ail-cyfeirio for cy:)

Discussed in recent weeks but not implemented are:
* Creating localization information to enable the bot to be used on wikitravel
  (or other WikiMedia-projects)
* Creating a bot to add redirects of the "Sometown, KY" to "Sometown, Kentucky"
  kind
* Further changes to make things easier on the operator when the interwiki-bot
  has a problem that it cannot solve by itself

Andre Engels


from_name: Guillaume Blanchard

subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

body:
The roadmap can be found at the following address:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_roadmap

For my part, WikiHiero is already operational and stable, but I still have
many features I'd like to add:
- A full CSS version (convert XHTML depreciated tag/arguments in styles)
- More syntax's support (comment, annotation, bracket, number converter,
etc.)
I will continue to submit changes until the start of the beta test phase,
stabilize the version until the release, and then continue to submit changes
to the next version.

Aoineko

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashar Voultoiz" <thoane at altern.org>
To: <wikitech-l at wikipedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

> Hello there,
>
> This message is mostly for the core developper team (the guys that keep
> flooding cvs with HUGE changes and new features).
>
> As I still havent found any roadmap for the development of mediawiki, I
> will assume the main page of test.wikipedia.org act as a roadmap.
>
> The new features are:
> * New skin
> * Links in thumbnails
> * Template syntax
> * Tweaks to localisation
> * Automatic conflig merging
> * Greyed subsection in comments
> * Categories
> * XML Import
> * RSS syndication
> * Hieroglyphs
>
> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable" release or
> if there is still some work to be done.
>
> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If not
> wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)
>
>
> cheers,
>
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Ivo Köthnig

body:
Am Freitag, 23. April 2004 09:31 schrieb Magnus Manske:
> Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
> >On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:13:14PM +0200, Magnus Manske wrote:
> >>4. We merge every two entries on our list (#3) that have both the same
> >>name *and* the same password hash (same name and password = same user)
> >
> >Uhm, but I don't have the same password on different Wikipedias.
> >In fact I don't use any password unless I'm a sysop.
> >
> >Is it unusual ?
>
> I don't know if that's unusual. I, for one, use the same password on all
> wikipedias. Anyway, nothing would change for you through my proposal,
> except that you can't create new users of the same name anymore. That
> is, until we resolved all instances of your user name belonging to you.
> Then we'd merge it like we did the others.

I think Thomas means, that it is not unusal to have no password. If two
different users with same name on different wikipedias and empty password
exists they will be merged. But may we can filter this special case.

--Ivo K?thnig


subject: [WikiEN-l] LYNCH MOB against Paul Vogel

body:
"Vogel, You?re inflaming this situation unnecessarily.
 There is no conspiracy or cabal plotting against you.
You need to calm down and get a hold of yourself
before continuing in this behavior. You are only
hurting yourself."

On the contrary, YOU are ONE of THEM and have
forced me to resort to calling attention to
what you and YOUR ILK of LYING HYPOCRITES and
CENSOROUS BIGOTS have been doing to users here.

"Your views, no matter how offensive others might
consider them, were not the reason you were banned."

That is simply and clearly a bald-faced lie.

"The behavior you engaged in was."

Hardly!
Again, psychological projection and double-standards!

"By vandalizing pages, engaging in excessive reverts
and circumventing temp bans you put yourself in this
position."

I didn't vandalize any pages, or engage in excessive
reverts, but, I DID circumvent any bans based upon any
such false pov allegations and upon any such biased
treatment and harrassment

"Take some time off wikipedia, collect your thoughts,
review the editing rules and come back  -after- your
ban expires refreshed and ready to contribute."

I have not been the one continually violating such
rules. YOU and YOUR ILK actually have, and enforce it
only on those when you don't agree with their own pov.

"No one that I know of wants to suppress your
contributions, they want you to make them in the way
stated by wikipedia policy and deal with conflict in a
more calm and rational matter. I am sure if you come
back and behave yourself and make good contributions
all will be forgotten. Thanks and good luck."

I don't believe you, for you do not mean what you say
nor say what you mean, as your own actions and words
have demonstrated over and over again with me.
You are NOT HONEST nor SINCERE, either, Karl.

Those were the same kind of "patronizing" and and
"insulting" and typical "personal insults"
that I have come to expect from such a cabal
or ilk and mob of "lying hypocrites"!

It is clear that some are only "covering" for these
censorous bigots and that they do not want to review
the "facts" or any "evidence" of my true allegations
of the reality of this hidden cabal or ilk of these
censorous lying and hypocritical bigots within the
Wikipedia community.

If there is not proper justice done here and on my
behalf, then I will know that this project is bogus
and that this lying and hypocritical ilk is in full
control of it, and so will almost anyone else that is
"objective" AND "fair-minded".

Paul Vogel

__________________________________
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subject:
[WikiEN-l] Andy Lehrer is the one that wants to have me CENSORED
	and BANNED!

body:
Response to Vogel

"Vogel, I wonder what a psychiatrist would make of
your hatred of Jews and your worship of Freud and
Sagan?"

Since I neither hate "Jews" nor worship either Freud
nor Sagan, what would a psychiatrist make of your own
psychological projection and lying hypocrisy?-PV

"He'd probably say you have a severe inferiority
complex and deal with your feelings of inadequacy when
you compare yourself to your Jewish heroes by acting
out in anti-Jewish behaviour. AndyL 01:47, 23 Apr 2004
(UTC)"

LOL! :D

When someone is right, they are right, and when
someone is wrong or mistaken, they are mistaken.

It is quite clear that the ones with an actual
"inferiority complex" is not myself,
but, you really should go take a good long
look in the mirror, AndyL, if you could
"mentally" take it. LOL! :D

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25?
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash


subject:
[WikiEN-l] AndyL requested arbitration to have me BANNED, Blocked,
	and CENSORED!

body:
Current requests
The procedure for accepting requests is descibed at
arbitration policy. Be brief - put a quick list of the
nature of the complaints. Link to detailed evidence
elsewhere if you need to.

User:24.45.99.191
Paul Vogel is an anonymous user who has had temporary
bans implemented him on several occasions for
trolling, breaking the revert rule and making abusive
comments. 24.45.99.191is his most common IP address
but according to Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paul
Vogel he also uses:
24.45.99.191 (optonline.net ? broadband provider)
65.125.10.66 (tcius.com ? marketing company)
66.2.156.* (10, 27, 36, 38, 48, 69, 100, 123)
(algx.net NY dialups)
216.99.245.* (139, 146**, 153, 154, 170, 171, 184,
188) (algx.net NY dialups)
(**) new
He has been especially prevalent (and abusive) on
Holocaust, Anti-Semitism, Cosmotheism, White
Separatism, Judaism, Genocide and associated talk
pages.

I wish to request a permanent block against Vogel and
his various IP addresses. AndyL 04:26, 21 Apr 2004
(UTC)

It is clear that a cabal of censorous pov bigots have
falsely accused me of being a "troll", "vandal", or of
making "abusive comments" on some TalkPages, or of
"breaking the 3-revert rule". This is psychological
projection by a pov mob or ilk of lying hypocrites. I
do request Sam Spade, to be my "advocate", and I also
can provide evidence to demonstrate the fact that
those here attempting to have me banned and to have me
censored, are themselves "trolls", "vandals", and have
themselves broken the 3-revert rule and have hurled
"personal insults" and have abused and used slanderous
and false personal insults and "abusive comments" as
their own stock in trade and in their own pov bigoted
and biased campaign of "character assassination".-PV

I agree to being his advocate, in this circumstance
and others, until I such time as I might find cause to
recuse myself. Sam Spade 22:30, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Seconded. User has an unbroken five-month record of
personal attacks, revert wars, vandalisms, and so
forth. ?No-One Jones 04:30, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Another typical case of Psychological projection by
Mirv, ad nauseum.-PV

And did I mention that he constantly tries to diagnose
psychological problems based on what people write on
Wikipedia? Not sure if that behavior is within the
purview of the arbitrators, but. . . ?No-One Jones
15:40, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC):-)
In your case, it is quite obvious and clear, as "lying
hypocrisy" is a key indicator of psychological
projection.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy
brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in
thine own eye?" - Matthew 7:3 King James Version of
the Bible
It is not "rocket science", Mirv.-PV

I believe Vogel is currently under a 24 hour ban. He
has apparently circumvented this by posting under
216.99.245.146 He's been on Wikipedia for months but
has refused to register, it would seem, so he can
circumvent discipline more easily. AndyL 02:15, 23 Apr
2004 (UTC)
Vogel was expressly banned by Hadal for 48 hours and
has now returned (as 216.99.245.146) to continue to
engage in an edit war.GrazingshipIV 02:19, Apr 23,
2004 (UTC)

I personally don't see a reason to go through such
contortions in order to deal with this user. He has
made ad hominem attacks a central tactic in his
"debates" with others and will see no compromise. The
community has put up with him for months; much time
and energy has been wasted in vain pursuit of accord
with Vogel.

As I do not see quickpolls as an appropriate method of
resolving what should be a simple matter of an IP
blatantly violating policy, I also do not see
arbitration as necessary in this case. It's another
waste of time and energy which would be much better
spent building Wikipedia or dealing with problem users
who bother to log in (and, for that matter, have done
more than disrupt). I have re-blocked Vogel's primary
(static) IP for 96 hours, as I promised I would do if
he tried to evade the original 48 hour block. If he
attempts to evade this block as well, I will make the
block indefinite. I'll do the same if he does not
moderate himself in the future.

If others want to pledge themselves to what will
surely be wasted effort, that's their choice. In the
meantime, I'll do what I believe is best for the
community. Wikipedia is not the Stormfront forums;
Paul Vogel knows this as well as anyone else. -- Hadal
04:05, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Arbitators opinions on hearing this matter
We should hear this. I believe it is Wikipedia policy
that pushing an extreme point of view is not in itself
grounds for banning. However there are a number of
Wikipedia policies which by necessity must be violated
in an effort to aggressively push a point of view. I
think, based on a preliminary review of
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Paul Vogel there are
sufficient grounds for consideration of his actions.
Fred Bauder 13:24, Apr 21, 2004 (UTC)
Agree with Fred; support. James F. (talk) 13:26, 21
Apr 2004 (UTC)
Both sides seem to want us to arbitrate, so by all
means let us do so. Martin 21:52, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

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from_name: Christopher Mahan

subject: [WikiEN-l] LYNCH MOB against Paul Vogel

body:
--- Mr Paul Vogel <bannedneedle at yahoo.com> wrote:
...snip...
> If there is not proper justice done here and on my
> behalf, then I will know that this project is bogus
> and that this lying and hypocritical ilk is in full
> control of it, and so will almost anyone else that is
> "objective" AND "fair-minded".
> Paul Vogel

And then you will leave? Really? Wow, can't wait :)

In all seriousness, if you can't deal with debade and edits, then you
probably should recosider your level of involvement in this
community.

On an aside, the mailing lists are publicly archived and are usually
googled pretty quickly.

Do a search for your name on google in a couple of weeks and I bet
these messages will be in the top 20.

All this to say that we have auditability and he-said-she-said
catfights are usually easily resolved with permanent bans. YMMV.
IANAL. HTH. RTFM(A).

=====
Christopher Mahan
chris_mahan at yahoo.com
818.943.1850 cell
http://www.christophermahan.com/

__________________________________
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from_name: Evan Prodromou

body:
>>>>> "MM" == Magnus Manske <magnus.manske at web.de> writes:

    Me> What about just tagging articles in cur and old with a language
    Me> code ('en', 'fr', 'akk'), and putting them all in one big
    Me> database?

    MM> How would that lead to a single log-in?

I refuse to take responsibility for my uninformed comment!

Yes, you're right, of course. I wasn't thinking straight. Anyways, I
just wanted to make sure that we're moving forward with this:

     http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposal_on_language_integration

    MM> We can do that already without changing anything in the
    MM> database. But IMHO that'd be a bad idea. Better, in my
    MM> proposed new user database, let the user *choose* the
    MM> interface language.

I'd say: browser settings by default, overrideable by user preference.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel - http://www.wikitravel.org/
The free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Translations for v1.3

body:
On Apr 23, 2004, at 06:38, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> A problem I noticed, is that lot of mediawiki namespaces are using
> "/wiki/"
> or "Wikipedia". What are the best variables to replace that ? I am
> thinking
> about $wgScriptPath & {{ns:4}}, are they valid choices ?

Use [[ ]]. Messages potentially containing links and formatting should
be run through the wiki formatter, not raw HTML, since they are now
user-editable.

{{SITENAME}} and {{NS:4}} should be used, iirc, in place of
'Wikipedia'. (Some of the files have had $wgSitename and
$wgMetaNamespace, but this information gets lost in the MediaWiki:
namespace because the substitution happens at script load time, and the
substituted version is imported.)

Also there's other hardcoded Wikipedia text in there, such as the
google search, that we shouldn't see in general files.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Nikola Smolenski

subject: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual interface

body:
I have managed to make changes to code which enable users to choose their user
interface language, feature sought at Wikisource, Wiktionary etc. To whom
should I send the code?


subject: [WikiEN-l] LYNCH MOB against PAUL VOGEL and LYING HYPOCRISY!

body:
Ed Poor is typically unable to take his own advice!!!!
LOL! :D
------------------------------------------------------

[WikiEN-l] Avoid personal remarks
Poor, Edmund W Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com
Mon Mar 1 17:33:25 UTC 2004

Previous message: [WikiEN-l] Eclecticology for admin
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rick and Charles,

Trade barbs somewhere else, please. This list is for
discussing ways of
improving Wikipedia.

Ed Poor
Wikien-l Admin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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subject: [WikiEN-l] LYNCH MOB against PAUL VOGEL!

body:
THANK YOU CAROLINE!, for your SUPPORTING FREE SPEECH
for EVERYONE and most especially regardless of their
own "politics" or "religion", ie. my is cosmotheism or
classical pantheism but I am actually neither a
far-rightest nor leftist...but I am a independent
thinker.

Best regards,
Paul Vogel
http://www.cosmotheism.net

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list: foundation-l

subject: [Foundation-l] imagewiki (or whatever name)

body:
Once more I would like to ask whether someone would be willing to
actually start a Wikimedia project for the collection of images and
possibly other media files that can be used in Wikipedia and similar
projects. From reactions to earlier proposals of the same sort I am
getting the impression that this is not unlikely to work out well,
but I would need to have the wiki set up, the domain name decided
etcetera to actually be able to get started. If someone is both
willing and able to do so, then I would be delighted.

Andre Engels


list: wikimedia-l


subject: [Wikitech-l] imagewiki (or whatever name)


from_name: Gabriel Wicke

subject: [Wikitech-l] iconv problems?

body:
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 17:13 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
> On Apr 22, 2004, at 16:06, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> > Modified Files:
> > 	Language.php
> > Log Message:
> > sileced iconv for now
>
> What messages were you getting out of it? I'd prefer to fix if
> possible...

'Detected invalid charset' on some pages, at
http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portada.
--
Gabriel Wicke


subject:
[WikiEN-l] Paul Vogel's anti-Semitism? What about Jewish
	anti-Cosmotheism????!!!

body:
Paul Vogel's anti-Semitism?

What about Jewish anti-Cosmotheism????!!!

What about the LYNCH MOB against PAUL VOGEL by this
same ilk of lying and hypocritical and double-standard
censorous pov bigots!

Read do the following link for YOUR OWN SELF and just
see if YOU THINK that I am being UNREASONABLE or if
Steven and his ilk of lying hypocrites and bigoted pov
censors are the actual ones being UNREASONABLE!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cosmotheism

Best regards,

Paul Vogel

http://www.cosmotheism.net

PS-A SLANDERED, CENSORED, BANNED, and BLOCKED and true
Classical Pantheist or Cosmotheist!

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subject:
[WikiEN-l] Paul Vogel wrote a "bunch of hysterics" or an ilk of
	lying hypocrites have, David?

body:
"Paul Vogel wrote: a bunch of hysterics"

Paul Vogel wrote a "bunch of hysterics"? or an ilk of
lying hypocrites have, David, in a bigoted attempt to
have me BANNED, BLOCKED, and CENSORED????

"Paul, I advise you to cease your campaign of flooding
the mailing list with your complaints."

I advise you to cease your "personal insults" of
"hysterics", David.

"They are inappropriately offensive and this list
is an inappropriate place to engage in such
arguments."

It is offensive and inappropriate for you to defend
any such ilks censorship,lying hypocrisy, and selfish
bigotry, David.

"If you have complaints about how you or your ideas
are being treated, I invite you to follow the
procedures outlined in
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution".

I already had, and they fell on deaf ears, David.

"The postings you have made to the mailing list today
are not likely to be looked kindly upon by the members
of the arbitration committee if
your case should appear before them."

Only if they themselves are bigots, and do refuse to
see the factual evidence that is made available to
them, David.

"I would like to point out to you that there have been
previous instances when exteremly upset Wikipedians
have gone on posting rampages making
wild accusations on the mailing list, as you have."

I am sure that this has happened before, with other
innocent victims, and also with some well and with
some deserving "Trolls" and "Vandals", which I am NOT,
David.

"All those users have either left Wikipedia or ended
up permanently banned."

Indeed.
Do NOT throw out the good with the bad, as I do
actually suspect has really happened here and as often
as NOT, David.

"If you have any interest at all in continuing to
contribute to Wikipedia, I suggest you
start behaving within the policies and guidelines for
behavior set by Wikipedia, EVEN IF you believe that
others are not obeying the policies."

NO.
Either EVERYONE is TREATED EQUALLY, without
DOUBLE-STANDARDS, with those POLICIES, or this WIKI
PROJECT is being run by CENSOROUS and HYPOCRITICAL
LIARS and POV BIGOTS, David.

"Two wrongs do not make a right."

Then support the rights, and NOT the WRONGS, David.
BE a REAL MAN!

"Finally, since you seem to have totally flown off the
handle, I expect you are unlikely to do any of what I
ask."

Indeed. You first, David. Lead by example.

"Don't be surprised, then, when people treat you
abusively in response to your treating them
abusively."

Indeed, but, you do always forget that it has been the
other way around, David.
Your own pov bias and lying hypocrisy is showing.

Paul Vogel
http://www.cosmotheism.net

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25?
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash


subject: [Wikitech-l] DNS

body:
DNS still isn't switched to zwinger (which is needed to load balance the
squids), it would be great if somebody could finally get around to do
this.
--
Gabriel Wicke


subject: [Wikitech-l] Miser mode on de, pl

body:
Somebody disabled miser mode on de.wikipedia.org in LocalSettings.php.
That may have been there for a while, I don't know, it wasn't labeled.

Heavy special pages on de were weighing down the database A LOT, so
I've taken it out and locked them off again. Load on suda has fallen
from 8-10 to 4-6 and response is much better.

I've also put the locks back on pl, and temporarily disabled the
'magic' parameter for bypassing miser mode.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Jens Frank

subject: [Wikitech-l] Getting to MediaWiki 1.3 - TODO-List

body:
On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:43:40PM +0200, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> Hello there,
>
> This message is mostly for the core developper team (the guys that keep
> flooding cvs with HUGE changes and new features).
> [...]
> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable" release or
> if there is still some work to be done.
>
> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If not
> wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)

I took all the todos mentioned in the mails and summarized them at
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_roadmap#To_be_done

Feel free to update these if points are resolved.

Regards,

	jens


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Getting to MediaWiki 1.3

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
 > On Apr 22, 2004, at 07:43, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
 >
 >> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable"
 >> release or if there is still some work to be done.
 >>
 >> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ?
 >> If not wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)
 >
 >
 > Fix bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, and bugs.

Since when have we ever worried about that? ;)

 > Documentation updates.
 >
 > Additional touches to in-place install. Removal of the old, dangerous
 >  command-line install. Getting maintenance scripts usable (but safe)
 > in the in-place environment.

I've already checked in a method for checking if a command-line script
really is being run from the command line, and exiting with an error
message if it isn't. IMHO the best thing to do with the command line
scripts would be to convert them to scripts runnable from the ordinary
web interface, with password-based (possibly SSL) authentication.

 > Make sure upgrading from previous versions is a clean, easy process.

I'm worried about the help namespace -- a number of messages have been
changed to point to the Help namespace instead of the Wikipedia
namespace. This will break links, and may go unnoticed on smaller
installations.

Is there any way to execute scripts for schema changes from the web
installer? It would be nice to see convertLinks.php work from the web
interface. Note that convertLinks.php will require downtime, perhaps an
hour or so depending on the speed of the speed of the database server.

moveCustomMessages.php doesn't require downtime, although to safely
avoid downtime requires some human know-how. Again, it's only runnable
from the command line.

In the long term (post 1.3) it might be nice to have a general way to
deal with schema changes, involving automatic detection of missing
fields and tables, based on a single schema specification. The
specification could then be used for both installing and updating.

 > Finish cleaning up Preferences.
 >
 > MonoBook is still missing the occasional bit (for instance, there is
 > no printable-version or RSS link.)
 >
 > Update all the language files with new stuff.

Gabriel has suggested switching our language management stuff to a
utility such as GNU gettext, to make this task easier.

http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/gettext.html

Needless to say, it would require a lot of work to maintain the current
ability to configure via the web interface. Definitely a job for a later
release.

There's a few bits and pieces I'd like to get done before 1.3, but I'm
not sure if I'll have time. For example, the template parameter syntax
chokes on something like {{thing|x=[[Foo|Bar]]}}. I think the solution
is to move the brace handling code to the tokenizer section.

The other thing that I want to do is to work on profiling and
optimisation. The main entry point of the parser is called a lot more
often than it used to be, I think there might be some need for moving
various kinds of initialisation to the constructor, or to static variables.

We're getting pretty tight for CPU time at the moment, it seems to be
causing minor slowdowns in peak times. It might be wise to fix up Snok's
parser cache and enable it on the live site.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Getting to MediaWiki 1.3 - TODO-List

body:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:41:03 +0200, Jens Frank wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 04:43:40PM +0200, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
>> Hello there,
>>
>> This message is mostly for the core developper team (the guys that keep
>> flooding cvs with HUGE changes and new features).
>> [...]
>> I am wondering if all of those are ready to make a 1.3 "stable" release or
>> if there is still some work to be done.
>>
>> If everything is fine, what are we waiting for to release 1.3.0 ? If not
>> wich part should I look at and help finish ? ;)
>
> I took all the todos mentioned in the mails and summarized them at
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_roadmap#To_be_done
>
> Feel free to update these if points are resolved.
>
> Regards,
>
> 	jens

Thanks to Aoineko for giving the link, thanks to jens for updating it :0)

--
Ashar Voultoiz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar


subject: [WikiEN-l] Test to see if everyone is getting this message at Wiki

body:
Please respond or reply back to this message so that I
can be sure that you are getting this message.

Thanks!

-Paul Vogel
http://www.cosmotheism.net

__________________________________
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subject: [Wikitech-l] Translations for v1.3

body:
Hello,

I am willing to complete the languages localisations files. Lot of new
messages have been added to the software but are not localised in the
langages.php files, instead they have been customised through the mediawiki
namespaces.

My idea is to get a dump of the mediawiki namespaces for all wikipedias and
use it to update the different hardcoded langagesXX.php files through a
script to be build.
The script could:
	1/ look at each value existing in the database
	2/ if it doesnt exist add it
	else ask what to do (ignore / update)
	3/ generate new arrays

A problem I noticed, is that lot of mediawiki namespaces are using "/wiki/"
or "Wikipedia". What are the best variables to replace that ? I am thinking
about $wgScriptPath & {{ns:4}}, are they valid choices ?

Once the datas from wikipedia got imported, we could ask people to updates
the refreshed langagesXX.php files.

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz
http://fr.wikipedia.org/Utilisateur:Hashar


from_name: David Friedland

subject: [WikiEN-l] Paul Vogel

body:
Paul Vogel wrote:

 >a bunch of hysterics

Paul, I advise you to cease your campaign of flooding the mailing list
with your complaints. They are inappropriately offensive and this list
is an inappropriate place to engage in such arguments. If you have
complaints about how you or your ideas are being treated, I invite you
to follow the procedures outlined in
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution>.

The postings you have made to the mailing list today are not likely to
be looked kindly upon by the members of the arbitration committee if
your case should appear before them.

I would like to point out to you that there have been previous instances
when exteremly upset Wikipedians have gone on posting rampages making
wild accusations on the mailing list, as you have. All those users have
either left Wikipedia or ended up permanently banned. If you have any
interest at all in continuing to contribute to Wikipedia, I suggest you
start behaving within the policies and guidelines for behavior set by
Wikipedia, EVEN IF you believe that others are not obeying the policies.
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Finally, since you seem to have totally flown off the handle, I expect
you are unlikely to do any of what I ask. Don't be surprised, then, when
people treat you abusively in response to your treating them abusively.

- David Friedland [[User:Nohat]]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Arbitration: matter of Paul Vogel

body:
Paul Vogel wrote:

> "Paul Vogel wrote: a bunch of hysterics"
>
> Paul Vogel wrote a "bunch of hysterics"? or an ilk of
> lying hypocrites have, David, in a bigoted attempt to
> have me BANNED, BLOCKED, and CENSORED????
>
> "Paul, I advise you to cease your campaign of flooding
> the mailing list with your complaints."
>
> I advise you to cease your "personal insults" of
> "hysterics", David.

I'm sorry if you were insulted by my use of the word "hysterics" but
your messages did seem to me to be characterized by overwhelming
emotional excess. Please note however, that I didn't call you
"hysterical". I simply characterized your complaints as "hysterics".

> "They are inappropriately offensive and this list
> is an inappropriate place to engage in such
> arguments."
>
> It is offensive and inappropriate for you to defend
> any such ilks censorship,lying hypocrisy, and selfish
> bigotry, David.

Perhaps it is offensive or inappropriate of me to defend "ilks
censorship", whatever that is, but that doesn't change the fact that
your behavior was inappropriate and I don't see any evidence on your
part to acknowledge that you are behaving inappropriately. This is about
you, not me.

> "If you have complaints about how you or your ideas
> are being treated, I invite you to follow the
> procedures outlined in
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution".
>
> I already had, and they fell on deaf ears, David.

Your request for arbitration is still active. Once four arbitrators
approve hearing the case, then the case will move forward into
arbitration. This part of dispute resolution does not move quickly, so I
  advise you to be calm and patient while the matter is in arbitration.

> "The postings you have made to the mailing list today
> are not likely to be looked kindly upon by the members
> of the arbitration committee if
> your case should appear before them."
>
> Only if they themselves are bigots, and do refuse to
> see the factual evidence that is made available to
> them, David.

Calling people names and making other ad hominem attacks is
inappropriate. Your postings to the mailing list today contained such
attacks in violation of Wikipedia policy. Those are facts that the
arbitrators will consider.

> "I would like to point out to you that there have been
> previous instances when exteremly upset Wikipedians
> have gone on posting rampages making
> wild accusations on the mailing list, as you have."
>
> I am sure that this has happened before, with other
> innocent victims, and also with some well and with
> some deserving "Trolls" and "Vandals", which I am NOT,
> David.

I have not accused you of being a troll or vandal. I am just pointing
out that your behavior on the mailing list is in violation of Wikipedia
policy and you may be subject to sanctions such as banning as a result
of your behavior. Your beliefs and ideas that you want to include on
Wikipedia are not in question here. In fact, I have no idea what they
are as I haven't investigated this dispute at all except for reading
your inappropriate postings to the mailing list.

> "All those users have either left Wikipedia or ended
> up permanently banned."
>
> Indeed.
> Do NOT throw out the good with the bad, as I do
> actually suspect has really happened here and as often
> as NOT, David.

We here at Wikipedia believe that in order to participate here, you have
to follow our guidelines and policies for behavior. If you fail to do
so, you will be subject to sanctions. This information is very clearly
stated on many pages on Wikipedia.

> "If you have any interest at all in continuing to
> contribute to Wikipedia, I suggest you
> start behaving within the policies and guidelines for
> behavior set by Wikipedia, EVEN IF you believe that
> others are not obeying the policies."
>
> NO.
> Either EVERYONE is TREATED EQUALLY, without
> DOUBLE-STANDARDS, with those POLICIES, or this WIKI
> PROJECT is being run by CENSOROUS and HYPOCRITICAL
> LIARS and POV BIGOTS, David.

This is a false dichotomy. There are many alternate possibilities. Also,
again, this screaming and personal attacks are inappropriate. I am sorry
you feel that Wikipedia is not well-run, but do you really believe that
screaming on the mailing list is going to change any of that?

> "Two wrongs do not make a right."
>
> Then support the rights, and NOT the WRONGS, David.
> BE a REAL MAN!

I'm not supporting or rejecting anything. All I've done is point out to
you that your behavior is unacceptable. It doesn't matter to me what
anyone else did to make you behave this way. The only question here that
I am considering is your behavior on the mailing list. I am trying to
maintain civility here on the mailing list and you are compromising that
civility with your name-calling. Let me be clear: I don't have an issue
with you, I have an issue with your behavior.

> "Finally, since you seem to have totally flown off the
> handle, I expect you are unlikely to do any of what I
> ask."
>
> Indeed. You first, David. Lead by example.

I'm not the one SCREAMING and calling people names, you are.

> "Don't be surprised, then, when people treat you
> abusively in response to your treating them
> abusively."
>
> Indeed, but, you do always forget that it has been the
> other way around, David.
> Your own pov bias and lying hypocrisy is showing.

The only matter that I have made any statement concerning is your
behavior. Perhaps your claim of my being biased and hypocritical might
hold some weight if there were another campaign of complaints being made
to the mailing list that I was ignoring in favor of focusing on you. I
see no other such campaign; therefore your accusations of bias and
hypocrisy are unfounded.

I would like to add that the Wikipedia community is very forgiving.
However, forgiveness is only shown to those who show remorse for their
actions. No matter who you are, if you fail to follow the policies, then
you will be subject to sanctions. You have already admitted that you
have attempted to elude those sanctions, which is also a violation of
policy, regardless of whether the sanctions were applied appropriately
or not. You are not above the rules here. Everyone is subject to them.
Unless you start now and show that you're willing to follow the policies
and obey the rules, you should expect to be punished for your violations.

You need to cease your inappropriate behavior, apologize, and promise
that it won't happen again. You also need to promise that you will,
starting now, obey all the rules and policies of Wikipedia. You should
be a "REAL MAN" and start the healing process by being the first to
admit your wrongs.

Finally, I have made the fourth agreement to hear your case, so your
case is officially in arbitration now. I suggest you make your case on

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Paul_Vogel>

and place evidence on

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Paul_Vogel/evidence>

and the arbitrators will hear your case.

- David


from_name: Karl Juhnke

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Can "outsiders" build their encyclopedia on Wikipedia?

body:
I have a hypothetical question, and wikipedia-l seems the best place to
ask it, so I have temporarily subscribed.

Suppose a group of people wanted to build a specialized encyclopedia
for their own purposes, and decided to create it on Wikipedia so they
don't have to worry about hosting or software issues.  Suppose they saw
Wikipedia as a free collaboration tool, and although they didn't mind
releasing their work under the GFDL, they weren't specifically
interested in creating a _general purpose_ encyclopedia.

Would this group of people and their project be welcome?

Specifically, suppose that the Mennonite Historical Society of Canada

http://www.mhsc.ca/

decided that their 2000-article On-line Canadian Mennonite Encyclopedia
was significantly out of date, and that an efficient way to collaborate
on getting it updated would be to pipe it into Wikipedia and work on it
from there.  As an added bonus to them, their articles would start
getting high rankings from Google.

I must stress the hypothetical nature of this question.  I have no
reason to believe that MHSC is willing to release their work under the
GFDL, or that they are interested in collaborating by using Wikipedia
as a free platform.  But supposing they were willing and interested,
would we want them to?

* Would we want lengthy and expert contributions to current articles on
Conrad Grebel, George Blaurock, and Mennonite theology?
* Would we want short biographies of notable modern Canadian
Mennonites?
* Would it be a nuisance and a waste of space to have a separate
article for every Mennonite congregation in Canada?
* Would we be embarrassed if there were more information in Wikipedia
about the Mennonite faith than about any other religion?

Reatreating from the specific question into generalities, I can imagine
several cases where groups have a set of information, objective and
encyclopedic in nature, which they want to disseminate for reasons of
their own.  I can imagine those groups looking to Wikipedia as a free
tool towards their ends, and seeing the GFDL as a reasonable license to
sign off on in exchange for the privilege.

* Have there already been cases of piggybacking?
* Has the community reached any sort of consensus opinion towards
piggybackers?
* If not, does anyone else anticipate that this will become an issue in
the future?

Thanks in advance for satisfying my curiosity on this point.

Peace,
-Karl

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