from_name: Oskar Sigvardsson

body:
No, this was an exception. We need to keep all articles GFDL to ensure
that people doesn't steal our stuff and don't attribute us or put it
under a proper license

--gkhan

On 9/26/05, Nathan Reed <nathanreed at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/23/05, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 9/23/05, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> > > Presumably GFDL will apply when he publishes this in Esquire.
> > >
> > > Ec
> > >
> >
> >
> > No. All text on that page was PD.
> > --
> > geni
> > _______________________________________________
>
> So is it possible to specify that other pages are PD, even within the
> context of the GFDL Wikipedia?
>
> -N.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] School struggle (was: Why is this an emergency?)

body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:

> The Wikipedian community seems to me to be the sort of
> community that really does rely on common goals and
> shared values.
>
> It is unlike organizational structures that _assume_ that
> factionalism is the _norm_, and consequently are designed
> to measure the relative strength of factions with precision.
> Such structures rely on hierarchies, constitutions,
> parliamentary procedure, and voting.
>
> Oldtimers: is the school struggle just par for the course,
> or does it  represent an emerging and deepening _lack_ of
> consensus on important issues?

I think it represents an attempt to delineate a boundary. It's a search
for a way to define what is "encyclopedic", i.e., important enough to be
included in the encyclopedia.

Is your local high school notable? Maybe not to me, but to your
community it is. The school, its doings, its and so forth, might have
more impact on your community than city hall. The policies of the
principal and faculty, the coaching philosophy of the football team, can
have far reaching effects.

I daresay a school would be more important than a rock band. In
Cambridge, Massachusetts, there are two public high schools. (For you
Britishers, this is "public" in the sense of being financed by the
government and subject to the rulings of an elected School Committee.
They don't charge tuition to residents.) Probably as many as half of the
Cambridge's 100,000 residents attend one of these two schools.

So policy choices like having Zero Tolerance for drug abuse (or letting
kids sell drugs in the hall ways); abstinence education or "here's how
to have fun in bed"; civics classes that emphasize personal
responsibility and helping others vs. "here's how to make the gov't
serve you more"; etc., have far ranging consequences.

I would like to know a lot more about what's going on in my hometown
high schools.

Ed Poor


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Andrew Lih

subject: [Wikipedia-l] New request for Cantonese Wikipedia: vote at 29-6

body:
On 9/26/05, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> When there is a vote, when this vote is considered in a meeting like it
> has, they should either put up or shut up. When a small group of people
> meets and decide on something, in essence this is just what happened: a
> small group of people who decided something. Nothing special in and of
> itself. Obviously they do not need to vote, but when they do not vote,
> they should not moan when their voice is not considered when the vote is
> evaluated.

Gerard and Pawe, you perhaps already know the voting process was badly
flawed (even rigged). Plenty of folks on this list have noted the same
thing.

With a lack of due process and due diligence for this vote, there's
only so much [[Sofixit]] can repair.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)


list: foundation-l

from_name: Poe, Marshall

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?

body:
Re Angela's mention of the "community" discussing and deciding things.

Just how many folks are subscribed to Foundation-l?  What percentage of
them actually contribute to Foundation-l when a new project is proposed,
or a question is raised?  I've spent a lot of time on a lot of lists
(founded and moderated one for three years), and this one is, well,
quite inactive.  And not only that, it's sometimes not very civil (e.g.
"Do it yourself").

Communities are groups of individuals with common interests who unite to
further those interests.  They have to contribute.  They have to be
helpful.  Do the subscribers to Foundation-l contribute?  Are they
helpful?  A more basic question: do they even have common interests?

All the Best, Marshall

Marshall Poe, Ph.D.
The Atlantic Monthly
600 New Hampshire Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20037
202-266-6511
mpoe at theatlantic.com
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?


from_name: netsql

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wikien-l Mailing List

body:
Mark and Ray,

I am CEO of roomity. You got a personal off list email from a person
w/ real address, much more expensive than writing a bot, we don't do
that.. Many people mirror mail lists (gmane.org <http://gmane.org>,
mail-archive,)etc.

We do not spam, we help reduce spam more than anyone else.

Let me know how you'd like the mirror to work ... etc.

.V

Hmm that's a worry. It's certainly an argument for keeping the mailing
list archives private. Maybe we need to see if there's a way to mask
email addresses on the archive from spam robots like this.

~Mark Ryan

On 8/17/05, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>> wrote:
>* I've received the following spam, masking as though it's from the
*>* mailing list.  Directly replying would be to the roomity address, and
*>* not to this mailing list.
*>*  Ec
*>*
*>* Joni Ellsworth wrote:
*>*
*>* > Ray,
*>* >
*>* > I was reading your posts on the Wikien-l mailing group yesterday, and
*>* > think our site may be of interest to you.  It will put all the posts
*>* > from the group on one page, and keep your inbox cleaner.
*>* >
*>* > There is nothing to buy, and there is a video demo, if you like.  If
*>* > you do get a chance to check it out, let me know what you think of it
*>* > - I would love to hear your thoughts.
*>* >
*>* > The site addy is http://www.roomity.com.
*>* >
*>* > Thanks!
*>* >
*>* > Joni Ellsworth
*>* > Community Operator
*>* > EMail: coasteraddict at roomity.com
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>
*>* > URL:   http://www.roomity.com
*>* > Office: 214-827-3319
*>* >
*>* > To opt out of this email, please contact coasteraddict at
roomity.com <http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>
*>*
*>*
*>*
*>* _______________________________________________
*>* WikiEN-l mailing list
*>* WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>
*>* To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
*>* http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
*>


from_name: Brandon Hansen

subject:
[WikiEN-l] I can't have links to online articles I've written on my
	user page?

body:
I've been involved in a dispute with Taxman and others about posting any
links to articles on the OmniNerd domain. I have been blocked twice
concerning the issue and finally agreed with Taxman to follow his OmniNerd
gag order, meaning I can't even suggest an OmniNerd article be listed in a
WP article as an external link - no matter how the suggestion is worded.

After my block expired, I made some significant edits to WP pages (not
OmniNerd related) and also decided to put some effort into my user page
(Uriah923). I noticed that other users - even an admin, Jmabel - included
links to writings they had online. I did the same. Taxman then erased the
links and blocked me again because the articles I've written are on
OmniNerd.

If Taxman and others don't want OmniNerd mentioned in WP articles because it
is not "worthy", so be it. But, preventing me from listing the articles I've
written on my own user page is going too far. The articles listed there do
not have to be worthy of an encyclopedia article reference, or even of an
external link - they are just listed because I wrote them. Having the links
on my page might affect the PR of the articles, but if this alone is enough
to erase them then any external link on anyone else's user page needs to be
deleted also - and we all know that's just silly.

So, I hope someone who reads this will be able to look at the case and
recognize the abuse. My recent edits (since the gag-order agreement) have
been constructive and I plan on doing many more of them. I see nothing wrong
with having links to external articles I've personally written on my user
page as I do so.

-Brandon (Uriah923)


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: nap, war, lad wikipedias created

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Indeed... [[gay:(insert famous person here]].

Thanks for the good laugh :)

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


from_name: Marc Girod

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Voting software

body:
>>>>> "Jan" == Jan Kulveit <jk-wikitech at ks.cz>

Jan> we would like to elect something similar to ArbCom on cs

Voting is a bad idea.
In general, and especially in the context of Wikipedia.
Voting is a sickness of democracy.
It fails everywhere, miserably. It is a visible sign of the collapse
of the Social Contract. It would be urgent to acknowledge this fact,
and to think of it, instead of digging one's heads in the sand of
easiness and tradition.

Some obvious problems with voting:
- anonymous, thus opaque, untractable, untraceable, free from
  responsibility.
- synchronous -- everything in a big bag, now. Waiting until next
  time.
- dehumanising: people as numbers; everybody reduced to the highest
  common denominator; differences unacknowledged.
- disdain of minorities.
- delegation of power; loss of responsibility.
...

Bush supports voting. That's what he means by democracy.

--
Marc Girod        P.O. Box 370        Voice:  +358-71 80 25581
Nokia BI          00045 NOKIA Group   Mobile: +358-50 38 78415
Kara RD B 480.2   Finland             Fax:    +358-71 80 64474


from_name: Delirium

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Why is this an emergency?

body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:

> Oldtimers: is the school struggle just par for the course, or does it
> represent an emerging and deepening _lack_ of consensus on important
> issues?

Not only is this sort of thing par for the course, but this *specific*
issue---whether we should have Wikipedia articles on all schools or just
the famous ones---has been debated ad nauseum for probably at least two
years now.

-Mark


from_name: Markus.Herb at de.TRUMPF.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] lucene search doesn't work with my wiki

body:
Dear wiki friends,

I am running a media wiki with the following versions:

*	MediaWiki <http://www.mediawiki.org/> : 1.5rc4
*	PHP <http://www.php.net/> : 5.0.4 (apache2handler)
*	MySQL <http://www.mysql.com/> : 4.1.13-nt
*	Extensions:
*	Special pages:
*	LuceneSearch by Kate Turner and Brion Vibber
*	Extension functions:
*	wfLuceneSearch and syntaxSetup

I've downloaded lucene search via cvs and compiled it.
when I start the indexer with the following command:

C:\apachefriends\xampp\lucene>java -Djdbc.drivers=com.mysql.jdbc.Driver
org.wiki
media.lsearch.MWSearch -rebuild dewiki

I receive the following error message:

"26.09.2005 09:23:15 org.wikimedia.lsearch.SearchState <init>
INFO: dewiki using analyzer org.apache.lucene.analysis.de.GermanAnalyzer
26.09.2005 09:23:16 org.wikimedia.lsearch.SearchState initializeIndex
INFO: Creating new index for dewiki
dewiki: running full update...
26.09.2005 09:23:16 org.wikimedia.lsearch.MWSearch main
WARNUNG: [dewiki] Error starting query: SQL error: Syntax error or
access violat
ion message from server: "Key column 'page_timestamp' doesn't exist in
table"
java.sql.SQLException: Syntax error or access violation message from
server: "Ke
y column 'page_timestamp' doesn't exist in table"
        at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.checkErrorPacket(MysqlIO.java:1997)
        at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.sendCommand(MysqlIO.java:1167)
        at com.mysql.jdbc.MysqlIO.sqlQueryDirect(MysqlIO.java:1278)
        at com.mysql.jdbc.Connection.execSQL(Connection.java:2251)
        at
com.mysql.jdbc.PreparedStatement.executeQuery(PreparedStatement.java:158
6)
        at
org.wikimedia.lsearch.SearchState.enumerateArticles(SearchState.java:279
)
        at org.wikimedia.lsearch.MWSearch.main(MWSearch.java:115)"

I assume the database structure doesn't match to what lucene search
expects.
Since I am running a MediaWiki 1.5 I set

# Set this to run with MediaWiki 1.4 databases;
# if running with MediaWiki 1.5, remove it.
mwsearch.oldmediawiki=false

in mwsearch.conf

My mwsearch.conf looks like following (with correct username password
instead of ****):

# This should be a user which is able to connect to the database
# and read the wiki tables.
mwsearch.username=****
mwsearch.password=****

mwsearch.database.host=localhost
mwsearch.dburl=jdbc:mysql://{0}/{1}

# A directory to put the search index in.  It will be created if
# it doesn't already exist. The {0} parameter is filled in by
# the database name.
mwsearch.indexpath=./mwindex/{0}
mwsearch.titledb=./mwtitle/{0}

# List of all databases separated by spaces.
mwsearch.databases=dewiki

# List of those databases in Latin-1 encoding, separated by spaces.
# Any other database is assumed to be UTF-8 encoded.
# This affects only the index build, when data is pulled from the DB.
#mwsearch.latin1dbs=enwiki svwiki

# Databases whose names carry these suffixes are assumed
# to have a language prefix. The prefix will be used
# to select a language-specific analyzer to handle
# stop-words, grammatical normalization, and word separation.
# Unrecognized languages will get the English analyzer.
mwsearch.suffix=wiki

# Set this to run with MediaWiki 1.4 databases;
# if running with MediaWiki 1.5, remove it.
mwsearch.oldmediawiki=false

# If using table prefixes, set it here.
#mwsearch.tableprefix=mw_

# Max number of results to return to client
mwsearch.maxlines = 100

Any help appreciated.

Greetings
Markus


from_name: Delphine Ménard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Thank you from AJ Jacobs at Esquire

body:
On 9/26/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> See [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing]] for more about that.

Kat and I thought about the GFDL issue when starting the article. We
figured since Press releases were PD and since  this was close enough
to a press release PD would be the best choice, considering that
printing the entire text of the GFDL in Esquire was not an option.

And agreed, this has to stay an exception.

Best,

Delphine
--
~notafish


from_name: Jean-Baptiste Soufron

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Collaboration with Romanian Organisation for Gifted
	and Talented Children

body:
There are several way to do this. To me, the most simple one would be to
ask them to release their material under GFDL so that it can easily be
shared and re-used by WP and associated projects.

Would they be open to something like this?

Wikipedia Romania (Ronline) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just received a message from IRSCA, the
> Romanian
> Organisation for Gifted and Talented Children. They
> said they would be interested in collaborating with
> Wikimedia for the publication of free curricula and
> study material for gifted children, in the Romanian
> language. They said that they would like to know where
> this information could be placed (under what project)
> and any further information necessary.
>
> Personally, I believe the Romanian Wikibooks would be
> the best place for this material. I also think
> collaboration with
> IRSCA is a great new opportunity for the Romanian
> Wikipedia community. IRSCA do some wonderful things
> for Romanian gifted and talented children, including
> funding for cultural pursuits, curriculum development,
> etc.
>
> What is the Wikimedia policy towards these types of
> collaborations? What are the next steps?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ronline from the Romanian Wikipedia
>
> PS: More about IRSCA in English can be found at:
> http://www.supradotati.ro/en/index.html
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?

body:
Poe, Marshall wrote:

>Re Angela's mention of the "community" discussing and deciding things.
>
>Just how many folks are subscribed to Foundation-l?  What percentage of
>them actually contribute to Foundation-l when a new project is proposed,
>or a question is raised?  I've spent a lot of time on a lot of lists
>(founded and moderated one for three years), and this one is, well,
>quite inactive.  And not only that, it's sometimes not very civil (e.g.
>"Do it yourself").
>
>Communities are groups of individuals with common interests who unite to
>further those interests.  They have to contribute.  They have to be
>helpful.  Do the subscribers to Foundation-l contribute?  Are they
>helpful?  A more basic question: do they even have common interests?
>
>
One difficulty in identifying what the "community" is is that Wikipedia
is now so large that there's no monolithic community.  I would say most
Wikipedians aren't subscribed to this mailing list, or indeed to any of
the Wikipedia mailing lists.  Some people participate in community
discussions in other locations, like Wikipedia:Village_pump on the
English Wikipedia, and others stick to only discussing within particular
topic areas and sets of articles they happen to be interested in.  Many
people have opinions or ideas for specific meta-type issues, but only a
relatively small subset is interested in keeping abreast of all of them,
and that subset is who tends to be on these mailing lists sort of by
definition.

Which leads to an interesting organizational problem. =]

-Mark


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [Wikipedia-l] New Internet Rules in China

body:
Fred Bauder stated for the record:

> These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and
> Chinese Wikipedias:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?

That the Chinese Wiki(s) need to be concerned I don't doubt, but how do
you see it affecting the English one?  The Chinese government can go
perform amusingly obscene and anatomically improbable acts with a
39-foot bamboo stalk before I'll alter my writing to suit them.

--
  Sean Barrett     | There will be plenty of time for brain-eating
  sean at epoptic.com | after we conquer Earth. --Thrakazog


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Voting software

body:
Alfio Puglisi wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Marc Girod wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "Jan" == Jan Kulveit <jk-wikitech at ks.cz>
>>>>>>
>> Jan> we would like to elect something similar to ArbCom on cs
>>
>> Voting is a bad idea.
>> In general, and especially in the context of Wikipedia.
>> Voting is a sickness of democracy.
>> [...]
>> Bush supports voting. That's what he means by democracy.
>
> It is said that democracy is the worst government system, except for
> all the others. If you can come up with an alternative to voting for
> ArbCom or whatever vote on Wikipedia which is simultaneously morally
> superior, possible to implement and with equal or better results feel
> free to propose it.

That trite old platitude about democracy has nothing to do with it.
Suggesting that democracy implies voting may be comforting for those
with a fetish for politically correct moral superiority.  In most cases
any alternative is better if it strives to find a common ground between
positions.

Ec


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: No more new Wikipedias !

body:
Traroth wrote:

>Maybe a *really* representative Board ? Where do you
>think the resistance to Board decisions come from ?
>
In these circumstances from those whose pet projects are being skewered.

Ec


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and
Chinese Wikipedias:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?

Fred


subject: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: New Internet Rules in China

body:
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> Date: September 26, 2005 10:56:17 AM MDT
> To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> Subject: New Internet Rules in China
>
>
> These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and
> Chinese Wikipedias:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?
>
> Fred
>


body:
Traroth wrote:

>--- Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> a
>?crit :
>
>
>>The function of these wikis, it seems to me, would
>>be pride rather than
>>education. That's not the function I volunteered to
>>promote when I
>>signed up with Wikipedia.
>>
>>
>And cultural conservation ? Avoiding the vanishing of
>languages is a good purpose, in my opinion. In your
>hypothesis, if we look at the extrem case, why to
>start a wikipedia in another language than english,
>since more and more people speak this language ? Just
>learn english, and you will have access to wikipedia !
>
There are many good purposes, and cultural coservation is one of them.
That does not mean we should scatter resources to support every such
proposal that comes along.  How is an endangered language saved by a
diletante with more ego than brains, who happens to write a handful of
articles in the language in question.

>>There are always many vocal supporters, and there
>>are always people who
>>are silently opposed. Or rather, they are silent
>>until those in power
>>give in to the lobby and create new wikis, and then
>>they open up with
>>ridicule and criticism. We've seen it many times
>>before.
>>
>>
>People who are silently opposed ? What does it mean ?
>They are opposed, but not enough to express their
>opposition. I call that "people who don't care"...
>
Maybe those who are silently opposed have better things to do with their
time than maintain a vigil over every cockamamy scheme that comes
along.  They would rather save their energy for those instances when one
of those schemes threatens to succeed.

Ec


from_name: Giuseppe DAngelo

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 26, Issue 69

body:
Tanti auguri a tutti i napulitani!
Well done Sabine!
And looks like that Tim isn't such a bad bloke afterall - he sounds like a big ol' meanie - but he's a real softy deep inside!
Salutamu
pippu d'angelo

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:56:45 +0200
From: Ashar Voultoiz
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Formal request for the creation of the
Neapolitan Wikipedia
To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
Cc: foundation-l at wikimedia.org, wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sabine Cretella wrote:
> Good morning!
>
> Now all the requirements on meta for the creation of the Neapolitan
> Wikipedia have been fulfilled. At this stage I am asking for the opening of
>
> http://nap.wikipedia.org
>
> I already received the first bits of the User Interface that are going
> to be integrated in the table that is online in my user profile on the
> Italian wiktionary.
>
> Thank you for creating it asap.
>
> Have a great Sunday!
>
> Ciao, Sabine

Napolitan wikipedia got created some minutes ago and can now be edited at:
http://nap.wikipedia.org/

Pending wikis will most probably be created today.

Thanks Tim Starling for the technical support :)

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: lucene search doesn't work with my wiki

body:
Hi Brion,

thank you for your fast answer.

where do i get the c# version of lucene search?
Does WikiPedia also use this c# version?
Why is WikiPedia using version 1.6alpha of the mediawiki engine?
Where can this engine version be obtained?

Sorry for the many questions ;-)

Greetings
Markus


from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Markus.Herb at de.TRUMPF.com wrote:
> Hi Brion,
>
> thank you for your fast answer.
>
> where do i get the c# version of lucene search?

mwsearch in our CVS. You need to obtain libraries separately. The
updater interface is in extensions/MWSearch.

This is not a supported product and I make no guarantees whatsoever on
its suitability or usefulness for anyone at all. I would recommend
against attempting to use our Lucene search tools for your own site at
this time.

> Does WikiPedia also use this c# version?

Currently yes.

> Why is WikiPedia using version 1.6alpha of the mediawiki engine?

Wikipedia is using our current development tree of MediaWiki while we
continue to stabilize it and streamline new improvements. (MediaWiki is
written specifically for Wikipedia.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Javier Lázaro

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Default Groups created users are assigned to

body:
Hi.

I'm trying to use the line $wgGroupPermissions['user']['delete'] = true;
in LocalSettings.php and it doesn't work. It depends upon the mediawiki
version?? I've modified also the includes/User.php file in the
isAllowed() function (the part of the grouprights array) and it doesn'
work, too.

Has anyone explain me why??

Thanks

Ashar Voultoiz wrote:

>John Ky wrote:
>
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Is it possible to configure mediawiki so that any new users that are
>>created will automatically be assigned to one or more groups?
>>
>>
>
>Actually no. All user accounts are assigned the 'user' group permissions
>for which you can add / remove rights.
>
>Adding in your localsettings.php:
> $wgGroupPermissions['user']['delete'] = true;
>
>Would let logged in users delete pages.
>
>
>In User.php User::loadFromDatabase , near the end of the method, the
>following line seems to determine the group membership:
>
>$effectiveGroups = array_merge( array( '*', 'user' ), $this->mGroups );
>
>You can probably add groups there ;)
>
>cheers,
>
>
>
>

--
Javier L?zaro Jare?o
Secretariado de Nuevas Tecnolog?as y Recursos Virtuales
Vicerrectorado de Nuevas Tecnolog?as y Pol?tica

Universidad de Extremadura
Plaza Caldereros S/N
Edificio Rectorado
10071 - C?ceres (C?ceres) Espa?a (Spain)
Extensi?n: 1110, 7250


body:
Caroline Ford wrote:

>Let's wait until we hear from the Chinese users, rather than filtered via
>foreign media..
>
>

Well, you can get it confirmed by Xinhua, the official state media:
 http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/26/content_3544488.htm

Although they spin it as a way to crack down on "fabricated information,
pornography, gambling, or violence", the most relevant paragraph
confirms the widely reported new registration requirements:

"News sites set up by news organizations but publishing not just their
own stories, and sites by other organizations featuring news stories
must get approval from the State Council Information Office. Sites by
news organizations that only carry their own stories should register at
the main office or provincial information offices."

-Mark


from_name: Ivan Krstic

body:
Markus.Herb at de.TRUMPF.com wrote:
> where do i get the c# version of lucene search?

http://www.dotlucene.net/

> Does WikiPedia also use this c# version?

Yes. By the way, the preferred capitalization of Wikipedia is titlecase
- only W in uppercase.

> Why is WikiPedia using version 1.6alpha of the mediawiki engine?

http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-August/031103.html

> Where can this engine version be obtained?

http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=34373

If you're uncomfortable with CVS, you can get a nightly tarball of the
entire MediaWiki CVSROOT here:

 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cvstarballs/wikipedia-cvsroot.tar.bz2

Cheers,

--
Ivan Krstic <krstic at fas.harvard.edu> | 0x147C722D


from_name: topi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Roadmap for a GIS-Extension

body:
Does there exist a roadmap for including GIS into Wikipedia. Many wp
meanwhile did a lot work on georeferencing articles.

Heinz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProjekt_Georeferenzierung
[....]


from_name: Alfio Puglisi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Voting software

body:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Marc Girod wrote:

>>>>>> "Jan" == Jan Kulveit <jk-wikitech at ks.cz>
>
> Jan> we would like to elect something similar to ArbCom on cs
>
> Voting is a bad idea.
> In general, and especially in the context of Wikipedia.
> Voting is a sickness of democracy.
>[...]
> Bush supports voting. That's what he means by democracy.

It is said that democracy is the worst government system, except for all
the others. If you can come up with an alternative to voting for ArbCom or
whatever vote on Wikipedia which is simultaneously morally superior,
possible to implement and with equal or better results feel free to
propose it.

Alfio


subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Re: lucene search doesn't work with my wiki

body:
Hi Ivan,

thanx for your answer.

I now have downloaded lucene.net-1.4.3.final-002-22Feb05.bin.zip from
http://www.dotlucene.net/.

Unfortunately there is no docu how to connect dotlucene to my wiki powered by mediawiki.
Could you or anyone else who reads this, help me to get mediawiki 1.5rc4 and dotlucene up and runnning?

Greetings
Markus

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Ivan Krstic [mailto:krstic at fas.harvard.edu]
> Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2005 13:23
> An: Herb, Markus
> Cc: Wikimedia developers
> Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: lucene search doesn't work with my wiki
>
> Markus.Herb at de.TRUMPF.com wrote:
> > where do i get the c# version of lucene search?
>
> http://www.dotlucene.net/
>
> > Does WikiPedia also use this c# version?
>
> Yes. By the way, the preferred capitalization of Wikipedia is
> titlecase
> - only W in uppercase.
>
> > Why is WikiPedia using version 1.6alpha of the mediawiki engine?
>
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-August/031103.html
>
> > Where can this engine version be obtained?
>
> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=34373
>
> If you're uncomfortable with CVS, you can get a nightly tarball of the
> entire MediaWiki CVSROOT here:
>
>  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cvstarballs/wikipedia-cvsroot.tar.bz2
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Ivan Krstic <krstic at fas.harvard.edu> | 0x147C722D
>
>
>


list: commons-l

from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Commons-l] Freiheit mit Fallstricken

body:
Eine deutsche Version meines Artikels ?ber die Creative Commons
NC-Lizenzen ist nun verf?gbar:

http://intelligentdesigns.net/Licenses/NC/de

Der Text legt die Gr?nde dar, die dagegen sprechen, "freie" Lizenzen zu
verwenden, die eine kommerzielle Nutzung der Inhalte verbieten. Das ist
f?r Wikipedia und Wikicommons wichtig, da per Jimbo Medien unter solchen
Lizenzen in allen Wikimedia-Projekten verboten sind.

Ich hoffe, dass diejenigen von Euch, die sich damit befassen,
Institutionen von der Anwendung freier Lizenzen zu ?berzeugen, daraus
einen Nutzen ziehen k?nnen. Der Artikel wird voraussichtlich auch im
n?chsten Open-Source-Jahrbuch erscheinen.

?ber sinnvolle Bearbeitungen oder Hinweise w?rde ich mich freuen.

Viele Gr??e

Erik


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
I think you're correct, to a certain extent.

I don't like the current setup of the board, I don't think it's
representative enough, and that irritates me.

But I am unlikely to complain unless it threatens one of my "pet projects". Hm

Mark

On 26/09/05, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> Traroth wrote:
>
> >Maybe a *really* representative Board ? Where do you
> >think the resistance to Board decisions come from ?
> >
> In these circumstances from those whose pet projects are being skewered.
>
> Ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Alphax

body:
Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
> No, this was an exception. We need to keep all articles GFDL to ensure
> that people doesn't steal our stuff and don't attribute us or put it
> under a proper license
>

See [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing]] for more about that.

--
Alphax                      |   /"\
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http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \


from_name: Phil Boswell

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Re: What "community" ?

body:
"Poe, Marshall" <MPoe at theatlantic.com> wrote in
message news:E1DA5D7A2C3FD34484C3102E6AA616E801FBDAAE at amcmail...
[snip]
> ...  And not only that, it's sometimes not very civil (e.g.
> "Do it yourself").

To be brutally fair, that is the whole point of a wiki. Most websites, you
have to petition the webmaster to change anything, assuming the so-and-so is
still alive and receiving email. On a wiki, you can dive in and do it
yourself. Whether your ego survives the ensuing sh*st*rm is an entirely
separate problem :-)

You Know You've Been Doing Too Much Wiki When...you find yourself looking
for the "Edit this..." link on some other website, like, say, microsoft.com
or Mugglenet :-)
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]


from_name: Servien Ilaino

body:
Hi,

Dutch-Low Saxon has 10 votes for the creation of the Wiki, and (since
yesterday) 2 against, the anonymous user suggests it shouldn't be
created because the spelling of the different subdialect is different,
this problem is not really an issue since the community can come with
a standardisation solution for the nds-nl-Wiki. Node ue suggests the
same, and comments to use the nds-Wiki but I find it weird for people
from outside to judge if German- and Dutch-Low Saxon are compatible or
not, which they diffenately aren't to most.

Most people agree there should be a Dutch-Nds Wiki so don't see a reason not to.

For the war, aa and gay subdomains, I don't think there will be a lot
of problems with that. Not a lot of people will look for a gay, war or
aa.wikipedia... otherwise blocking would help.

Servien

2005/9/26, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org>:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> > Indeed... [[gay:(insert famous person here]].
>
> Thanks for the good laugh :)
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
> IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Guettarda

subject: [WikiEN-l] Released to Wikipedia

body:
The Geoffry Philp page was a copyvio, but the anon who wrote it has posted
the following material on the talk page.

"I, Geoffrey Philp, am the holder of the copyright to
geoffreyphilp.com<http://geoffreyphilp.com>and I grant Wikipedia all
rights to use the information contained on the
page".

In light discussion here a week or two ago, I was wondering whom I should
tell the anon to contact to officially release the rights, in lieu of that
"centralised repository". Thanks

Ian (Guettarda)


from_name: Ilario Valdelli

body:
The rule is that: if a tongue or dialect have a extension in ISO, the
request is correct. Nap and lad have extensions, the creation is correct.

Ilario

On 9/26/05, Servien Ilaino <servien at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Dutch-Low Saxon has 10 votes for the creation of the Wiki, and (since
> yesterday) 2 against, the anonymous user suggests it shouldn't be
> created because the spelling of the different subdialect is different,
> this problem is not really an issue since the community can come with
> a standardisation solution for the nds-nl-Wiki. Node ue suggests the
> same, and comments to use the nds-Wiki but I find it weird for people
> from outside to judge if German- and Dutch-Low Saxon are compatible or
> not, which they diffenately aren't to most.
>
> Most people agree there should be a Dutch-Nds Wiki so don't see a reason
> not to.
>
> For the war, aa and gay subdomains, I don't think there will be a lot
> of problems with that. Not a lot of people will look for a gay, war or
> aa.wikipedia... otherwise blocking would help.
>
> Servien
>
>
> 2005/9/26, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org>:
> > Mark Williamson wrote:
> > > Indeed... [[gay:(insert famous person here]].
> >
> > Thanks for the good laugh :)
> >
> > --
> > Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
> > http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
> > IM: hashar at jabber.org ICQ: 15325080
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Ben Garney

body:
Hi John,

No, not yet. When 1.5 goes stable/final I'll be upgrading. It might work
anyway, though (been tracking commits and haven't seen anything touching
the parts of the code that this patch touches).

I have a big conference coming up; so if you ask me nicely after Oct 9,
I can definitely get you the patch. Until then I'm probably going to be
way too slammed with work to do it.  :(

Ben

John Ky wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> I am very much interested in this magic word patch.  I have a
> very conservative group of people and I want to first get them
> accustomed to the concept of wikis before I put the case to
> them for opening the wiki for public access.
>
> The patch would really help me setup the wiki in a way that
> stands the best chance of getting accepted by the group.
>
> Is the patch available for 1.5?
>
> Thanks
>
> -John
>
> Ben Garney wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Maybe unrelated, maybe helpful - I added some code to my MW instance
>> to allow the requirement of a magic word before people can create an
>> account. So to create an account there's an additional field where
>> they have to specify the magic word before it'll let them in. Good
>> for closed betas and the like where you aren't trying to be secure,
>> just to keep out casual passers-by.
>>
>> If people are interested, I can probably make a little patch and post
>> it up somewhere.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ben Garney
>>
>> John Ky wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for replying.
>>>
>>> The configuration I want to setup is this:
>>>
>>> The wiki is configured to disallow anonymous users from
>>> viewing pages.
>>>
>>> A special user say "Guest" is given two privileges:
>>>
>>> * View pages
>>> * Create users
>>>
>>> I can then give people I know the user/password for Guest
>>> and they can then view pages, or at their option be able to
>>> create an account that they can use to edit pages.
>>>
>>> What is the best way of achieving something like this?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>>> Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually no. All user accounts are assigned the 'user' group
>>>> permissions
>>>> for which you can add / remove rights.
>>>>
>>>> Adding in your localsettings.php:
>>>> $wgGroupPermissions['user']['delete'] = true;
>>>>
>>>> Would let logged in users delete pages.
>>>>
>>>> In User.php User::loadFromDatabase , near the end of the method, the
>>>> following line seems to determine the group membership:
>>>>
>>>> $effectiveGroups = array_merge( array( '*', 'user' ),
>>>> $this->mGroups );
>>>>
>>>> You can probably add groups there ;)
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Kelly Martin

subject: [WikiEN-l] Released to Wikipedia

body:
On 9/26/05, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Geoffry Philp page was a copyvio, but the anon who wrote it has posted
> the following material on the talk page.
>
> "I, Geoffrey Philp, am the holder of the copyright to
> geoffreyphilp.com<http://geoffreyphilp.com>and I grant Wikipedia all
> rights to use the information contained on the
> page".

The release can't be just to Wikipedia, because our content is
released under the GFDL.  A release just to Wikipedia is not a free
license and so we still can't use it.

Kelly


from_name: Traroth

body:
Maybe a *really* representative Board ? Where do you
think the resistance to Board decisions come from ?

Traroth

--- Angela <beesley at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> On 9/24/05, Tim Starling
> <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
> > I created 5 new Wikipedias in June because I
> received a request from a
> > Wikimedia Board member. If I receive another such
> specific request, I'll
> > carry it out. I do that out of loyalty to them,
> not because I think it
> > contributes to our mission.
>
> I doubt you'll get another such request since I've
> been told that new
> language wikis is not a Board issue and I shouldn't
> be taking
> decisions on these or asking developers to start
> them. What people
> fail to realise is that if the Board doesn't take
> these decisions (and
> perhaps they're right and the Board shouldn't) -
> then who is going to
> take them? There is increasingly resistance to the
> Board doing
> anything, but also resistance to them delegating any
> authority they
> may have had, which is just leading to stagnation.
> So, who should be
> taking the decision on new language wikis (and also
> on new projects),
> especially when no
>
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposed_policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages>
> has ever been agreed upon?
>
> Angela.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

___________________________________________________________________________
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T?l?chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com


body:
--- Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> a
?crit :

> In all three cases, the majority of speakers are
> accustomed to obtaining
> information in a national language. Even if we
> create it, the Wikipedia
> in Waray-Waray or Neapolitan will never be
> comparable in size to the
> Wikipedia in English or Italian. So regardless of
> what we do, they'll
> have to continue to obtain most of their information
> in the same way.
> The function of these wikis, it seems to me, would
> be pride rather than
> education. That's not the function I volunteered to
> promote when I
> signed up with Wikipedia.

And cultural conservation ? Avoiding the vanishing of
languages is a good purpose, in my opinion. In your
hypothesis, if we look at the extrem case, why to
start a wikipedia in another language than english,
since more and more people speak this language ? Just
learn english, and you will have access to wikipedia !

>
> > These requests have many supporters, native
> speaker support
> > (especially in the case of Ladino and Neapolitan,
> where heaps of
> > native speakers dropped by to show their support),
> and no opposition.
>
> There are always many vocal supporters, and there
> are always people who
> are silently opposed. Or rather, they are silent
> until those in power
> give in to the lobby and create new wikis, and then
> they open up with
> ridicule and criticism. We've seen it many times
> before.

People who are silently opposed ? What does it mean ?
They are opposed, but not enough to express their
opposition. I call that "people who don't care"...

>
> -- Tim Starling

Traroth

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from_name: Gerrit Holl

body:
Traroth wrote:
> People who are silently opposed ? What does it mean ?
> They are opposed, but not enough to express their
> opposition. I call that "people who don't care"...

I, for one, am (usually) silently in favour.

Gerrit.

--
Temperature in Lule?, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature   05-09-26 17:09:57   12.3 degrees Celsius ( 54.2F) |
--
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


body:
That you don't want to make the work to create new
wikipedias is something I can understand, but why
destroy existing one ? 'Beats me !
What I cannot understand is : except the workload
problem, where is exactly the problem with new
languages ? Do you want to say which language people
have to speak ? Or what ?

Traroth

--- Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> a
?crit :

> Arbeo M wrote:
> > ... at least not for the past three months or so.
> >
> > In the past you only had to drop the name of some
> > language you'd heard of and a new wiki for that
> > language was created right away. This surely
> wasn't a
> > very intelligent approach, for it left us with
> quite a
> > number of inactive Wikipedias.
> >
> > Nowadays, it's the opposite extreme: there are
> heaps
> > of requests that have been discussed very
> thoroughly
> > by the community (cf.
> >
>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages).
> > Some of them are pretty well-qualified and
> supported
> > by numerous native speakers willing to contribute.
> > However, not a single new Wikipedia has been set
> up
> > for quite a while now.
> >
> > Some time ago there had been a remark that it was
> hard
> > for our developers to recognize which new language
> > proposals can be considered as accepeted by the
> > community (and therefore created). That's why I
> made a
> > separate page intended to list languages that
> > unambiguously qualify for a new wiki (cf.
> >
>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages).
> > Since this can be a controversial question I only
> > placed those cases there that are 100 %
> unequivocal
> > (at least 5 supporters, at least 2 native
> speakers,
> > ISO code, no objections, etc.).
> >
>
> I've stated my position on new language wikis, and
> we've been through
> all the arguments before. Just because I'm no longer
> interested in
> arguing every case, or putting my name on the oppose
> votes, doesn't mean
> I've changed my mind.
>
> I created 5 new Wikipedias in June because I
> received a request from a
> Wikimedia Board member. If I receive another such
> specific request, I'll
> carry it out. I do that out of loyalty to them, not
> because I think it
> contributes to our mission.
>
> The problem with voting on the matter is that it is
> a vote to expand the
> community. It should come as no surprise that those
> people who are on
> the outside are voting to be on the inside. As I've
> previously said, we
> should judge the value of a wiki by the number of
> readers, and by the
> information it brings to those readers, not by the
> number of editors. A
> Wikipedia in Anglo Saxon is a failure regardless of
> how many articles or
> editors it has. I know Anglo Saxon is an extreme
> case, but I'm not
> prepared to argue about every point in between,
> especially not when a
> certain annoying person dominates every discussion.
> I tired of the
> repetitive debate long ago, so I'm happy to consider
> the current set of
> languages sufficient. Hopefully if there's any
> really important
> languages that we've missed, a Board member will let
> me know.
>
> > [...]
> > Before any misunderstandings might arise: I know
> that
> > our developers are extremely busy (and AFAIK
> unpaid,
> > too - good gosh...). I was just wondering if
> somebody
> > has an idea how we could remedy this situation and
> > maybe have, like, one new WP per month (so we
> don't
> > lose too many potential new contributors)?
>
> If those potential new contributors only want to
> write articles in some
> little-known conlang, I won't shed any tears if they
> stay away.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

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body:
Cool. Y a quand m?me quelqu'un qui assure, ici...

Traroth

--- Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org> a ?crit :

> Tim Starling wrote:
> > 1) Find a sysadmin who is willing to get involved
> > 2) Develop a language creation policy, with the
> close involvement of
> > your chosen sysadmin. Get their agreement on every
> detail, give whatever
> > concessions are necessary to acheive this.
> > 3) With help from me or Brion, your chosen
> sysadmin should then become
> > familiar with the technical details of wiki
> creation, and should be able
> > to perform it in the future with little fuss.
>
> Hello,
>
> I am willing to handle the task of new wiki creation
> ;) Going to test
> the installation process this afternoon and
> hopefully pending wikis will
> be made available soon.
>
> <snip>
> > I will support this process. I'll offer technical
> advice to the
> > developer or sysadmin involved, I'll commit
> patches to CVS and I'll
> > activate the automated interface on the live site,
> assuming it works. I
> > reserve the right to express my opinions in the
> policy discussion, but I
> > promise I won't resort to silly stunts like
> threatening to leave.
>
> Thanks for your support ;p
>
> cheers,
>
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
> IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

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body:
Delphine M?nard wrote:
> On 9/26/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>See [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing]] for more about that.
>
>
> Kat and I thought about the GFDL issue when starting the article. We
> figured since Press releases were PD and since  this was close enough
> to a press release PD would be the best choice, considering that
> printing the entire text of the GFDL in Esquire was not an option.
>

There's nothing in the GFDL that says you can't put it in 8 point font,
is there? :P

Oh well, it would have been interesting to GFDL it, but I don't have a
problem with making specific things PD. Heck, I do it for all my minor
edits to articles :)

--
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from_name: Michael Turley

subject: [WikiEN-l] Released to Wikipedia

body:
On 9/26/05, Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/26/05, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Geoffry Philp page was a copyvio, but the anon who wrote it has posted
> > the following material on the talk page.
> >
> > "I, Geoffrey Philp, am the holder of the copyright to
> > geoffreyphilp.com<http://geoffreyphilp.com>and I grant Wikipedia all
> > rights to use the information contained on the
> > page".
>
> The release can't be just to Wikipedia, because our content is
> released under the GFDL.  A release just to Wikipedia is not a free
> license and so we still can't use it.

This is where license issues can get really tricky for those who
aren't careful about how they license their work: if this user really
did grant Wikipedia ALL RIGHTS, then Wikipedia has the right to
relicense the work and there is no problem.  However, there is the
problem of whether it is the original author's true intent ot grant
all rights, or limited rights.

I think we'll have to get a clarification, because we don't want to
take more of someone's rights than they intended to grant us over a
misunderstanding.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused


from_name: valdelli at bluemail.ch

subject: [Foundation-l] lad.wikipedia.org

body:
Sorry for my question but... the lad.wikipedia.org is certainly in ladin
tongue, but is it refered to the tongue spoken actually in the nord-italian
regions (Trentino, Alto Adige) or to the tongue spoken in the Spain in the
XV century? (http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/langcodes.html).

Ilario


subject: [Foundation-l] lad.wikipedia.org


from_name: Caroline Ford

body:
Let's wait until we hear from the Chinese users, rather than filtered via
foreign media..

Caroline
-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Fred Bauder
Sent: 26 September 2005 17:56
To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
Cc: Fred Bauder
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] New Internet Rules in China

These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and Chinese
Wikipedias:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?

Fred
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

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subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: ..... representation

body:
When I read things like "Some while ago I stopped
creating wikis except by an explicit request
from a board member since several cases have ended up
being later
canceled entirely on Jimbo's order (Toki Pona)"
(Brion), I'm not really sure that Anthere and Angela
are taking the one taking decisions...

Traroth

--- Walter van Kalken <walter at vankalken.net> a ?crit :

> Traroth wrote:
>
> >Maybe a *really* representative Board ? Where do
> you
> >think the resistance to Board decisions come from ?
> >
> >
> The 2 who really make the decisions were voted for
> to represent us
> ........ so how much more representative can they
> get?
>
> Waerth/Walter
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

___________________________________________________________________________
Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger
T?l?chargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com


from_name: Michael Snow

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Wikijunior needs info

body:
Nicholas Moreau wrote:

>Whom is the Beck Foundation that is shelling out US$10K for the project?
>
>Is it...
>
>   - Lewis H. Beck
>Foundation<http://chaucer.library.emory.edu/beckbio.html>of Atlanta
>which funds college-bound students, and has made major
>   contributions to the Emory University Library.
>   - John and Frances Beck
>Foundation<http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:-CbA3epNgucJ:www.thebeckfoundation.org/>of
>Chicago, whose purpose is to "initiate and support projects that
>   effectively promote literacy and learning among children youth, and adults".
>
>Multiple people involved in the project have been insuccessful in contacting
>Danny about the matter.
>
>
I think it would be a pretty safe assumption that the grant came from
the latter. The former seems to be entirely tied to Emory University and
the Lewis H. Beck Center, and its stated purposes don't correlate with
the grant.

--Michael Snow


body:
Traroth wrote:
> That you don't want to make the work to create new
> wikipedias is something I can understand, but why
> destroy existing one ? 'Beats me !
> What I cannot understand is : except the workload
> problem, where is exactly the problem with new
> languages ? Do you want to say which language people
> have to speak ? Or what ?

I think a possible problem might be that a small language wiki gets a
lot of spam and maybe copyright violations. Enduring copyright
violations are a problem, and if there is only one person that knows the
language, it's difficult to control. But if anyone has a better answer,
I'll be happy to hear.

regards,
Gerrit.

P.S.
In general it is better appreciated if you write your message below the
other person's, instead of top-posting like you do, because it's easier
to read.

--
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| Current temperature   05-09-26 18:19:54   11.9 degrees Celsius ( 53.5F) |
--
Det finns inte d?ligt v?der, bara d?liga kl?der.


from_name: SJ

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikimentaries and multimedia collaboration

body:
Some documentarists who came to Wikimania last month are interested in
developing ways for community members to develop their own
documentaries and shorts from their raw footage. (~20 hours of film,
including many interviews)  They are also developing a piece of their
own, but are increasingly excited about the idea of a "wikimentary" --
seeing what the community would do with the material.

On top of their material, Fuzheado captured a number of interviews
with Wikimedians around the world, we have full video capture of
around 20 sessions, we have a Public-Domain micro-documentary from
Soufron, et al...

Some early discussion about a wikimentary :
   http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimentary

There are lots of technical and interface issues to work out, some of
which touch on boundaries we are already pushing when we share and
collaborate on images and sound files.  What audio/video projects on
the projects should be alerted to this?

++SJ ,  filmmaker wannabe


from_name: Arbeo M

subject: [Wikitech-l] nap, war, lad wikipedias created

body:
Servien wrote:

> I was just
> wondering, Nds-nl
> has 10 people or something, but does it qualifity to
> be on the list, I
> think Triestin, Murican and Lombard and some others
> also qualify... or
> am I wrong?

Hi Servien!

I guess you're not wrong. Like Mark has already said,
the basic idea was to move only languages that are
absolutely uncontroversial to the "approved" page. I
thought with them one could most likely achieve some
progress. That progress has happened yesterday and our
new babies seem to be doing well ;-)

The message we got from our developers was pretty
clear: if we're asking them to create a new wiki it
must be 100% assured that is fully accepted by the
community and has good chances of prospering. I
believe Ladino, Neapolitan and Waray-Waray were the
right projects to end that month-long stagnation.

The next step would now be to have a closer look at
requests like the ones you're mentioning and see what
they might still be lacking in order to get a clear
"approved" status. I'd be happy if we could all
cooperate here in the next weeks and so bring a few
more healthy babies to life.

Regards,

Arbeo

___________________________________________________________
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from_name: Tim Starling

subject:
[Foundation-l] Re: Proposing New Projects (was Proposal for a new
	project: Wikisomething)

body:
Robert Scott Horning wrote:
> At the very least, if there is to be a moritorium on new sister
> projects, please make that official policy on the part of the Wikimedia
> Foundation Board and get that stated on the New Project page, and
> perhaps even on the front page of Meta as well.  On the other hand, if
> the board does intend to allow some new projects to be started if they
> are well thought out and have a support community behind them, there
> should be an official policy to silence the critics who seem to speak in
> a semi-official capacity on behalf of the board (even though I know they
> are not board members).

You want the Board to make a decision? Keep dreaming. If you want
something done, do it yourself. Form your own organisation, secure your
own funding, develop your own software.

> If there are genuine technical issues that need to be addressed so that
> starting en.wikiversity.org is somehow harder than to.wikibooks.org, I
> would like to know what those issues are that developers seem to be
> screaming about.  Get technical and don't sugar coat it either, and if
> possible give hard examples.  If the concern is purely social and
> getting the new project community organized, that may be a legitimate
> concern.  I don't think it is in as many cases as the critics seems to
> believe it may be, and most new projects tend to recruit more people
> than would normally be participating with Wikipedia alone, so I don't
> think it necessarily bleeds other projects dry from volunteers.  This is
> also an issue I would be more than willing to debate as well.

Some software requirements are listed at

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiversity#Possible_software_needs

Making a comprehensive list is a job for a developer, and you don't seem
to have any interested developers at the moment. It's much easier to put
your name on a list of supporters than it is to write 1000 lines of
code. Or indeed, to determine the requirements that that 1000 lines of
code should fulfill.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Andy Rabagliati

body:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Caroline Ford wrote:

> Let's wait until we hear from the Chinese users, rather than filtered via
> foreign media..
>
> Caroline

Seconded.

When the Chinese wiki has been blocked before, the message from the
Chinese administrators was hold tight.

Things work differently in that part of the world, and careful
negotiation it appears is much preferable to posturing.

Cheers,    Andy!

http://wizzy.org.za/


from_name: Nicholas Moreau

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikijunior needs info

body:
Whom is the Beck Foundation that is shelling out US$10K for the project?

Is it...

   - Lewis H. Beck
Foundation<http://chaucer.library.emory.edu/beckbio.html>of Atlanta
which funds college-bound students, and has made major
   contributions to the Emory University Library.
   - John and Frances Beck
Foundation<http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:-CbA3epNgucJ:www.thebeckfoundation.org/>of
Chicago, whose purpose is to "initiate and support projects that
   effectively promote literacy and learning among children youth, and adults".

Multiple people involved in the project have been insuccessful in contacting
Danny about the matter.

Also, the registration of wikijunior.org <http://wikijunior.org> was
scheduled to be discussed at the board meeting on the 18th, yet I don't see
any record of this having happened.

Nick


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikijunior needs info


from_name: Alfio Puglisi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Voting software

body:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Alfio Puglisi wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Marc Girod wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> "Jan" == Jan Kulveit <jk-wikitech at ks.cz>
>>>>>>>
>>> Jan> we would like to elect something similar to ArbCom on cs
>>>
>>> Voting is a bad idea.
>>> In general, and especially in the context of Wikipedia.
>>> Voting is a sickness of democracy.
>>> [...]
>>> Bush supports voting. That's what he means by democracy.
>>
>> It is said that democracy is the worst government system, except for all the
>> others. If you can come up with an alternative to voting for ArbCom or
>> whatever vote on Wikipedia which is simultaneously morally superior,
>> possible to implement and with equal or better results feel free to propose
>> it.
>
> That trite old platitude about democracy has nothing to do with it.
> Suggesting that democracy implies voting may be comforting for those with a
> fetish for politically correct moral superiority.  In most cases any
> alternative is better if it strives to find a common ground between positions.

It is better if it strives *and* succeeds. I sait "feel free to propose
it", and that's not a rethorical question. On wikipedia, there are votes
about deleting pages, about admin elections, about ArbCom decisions, and
others. So, instead of saying "voting is bad", one should propose an
alternative mechanism that works when people have different opinions.

Alfio


from_name: Walter van Kalken

body:
> Whether your ego survives the ensuing sh*st*rm is an entirely
>separate problem :-)
>
And whether your ego is strong enough to be willing to do things that
you know will open up a  sh*st*rm  ..... is also part of this ;). Or in
other words .... it is not for the faint of heart.

Waerth/Walter


from_name: John Ky

body:
Hi Ben,

I am very much interested in this magic word patch.  I have a
very conservative group of people and I want to first get them
accustomed to the concept of wikis before I put the case to
them for opening the wiki for public access.

The patch would really help me setup the wiki in a way that
stands the best chance of getting accepted by the group.

Is the patch available for 1.5?

Thanks

-John

Ben Garney wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Maybe unrelated, maybe helpful - I added some code to my MW instance
> to allow the requirement of a magic word before people can create an
> account. So to create an account there's an additional field where
> they have to specify the magic word before it'll let them in. Good for
> closed betas and the like where you aren't trying to be secure, just
> to keep out casual passers-by.
>
> If people are interested, I can probably make a little patch and post
> it up somewhere.
>
> Regards,
> Ben Garney
>
> John Ky wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for replying.
>>
>> The configuration I want to setup is this:
>>
>> The wiki is configured to disallow anonymous users from
>> viewing pages.
>>
>> A special user say "Guest" is given two privileges:
>>
>> * View pages
>> * Create users
>>
>> I can then give people I know the user/password for Guest
>> and they can then view pages, or at their option be able to
>> create an account that they can use to edit pages.
>>
>> What is the best way of achieving something like this?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -John
>>
>> Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
>>
>>> Actually no. All user accounts are assigned the 'user' group
>>> permissions
>>> for which you can add / remove rights.
>>>
>>> Adding in your localsettings.php:
>>> $wgGroupPermissions['user']['delete'] = true;
>>>
>>> Would let logged in users delete pages.
>>>
>>> In User.php User::loadFromDatabase , near the end of the method, the
>>> following line seems to determine the group membership:
>>>
>>> $effectiveGroups = array_merge( array( '*', 'user' ), $this->mGroups );
>>>
>>> You can probably add groups there ;)
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: ..... representation

body:
Traroth wrote:

>Maybe a *really* representative Board ? Where do you
>think the resistance to Board decisions come from ?
>
>
The 2 who really make the decisions were voted for to represent us
........ so how much more representative can they get?

Waerth/Walter


from_name: kelvSYC

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia and OmniGraffle

body:
I don't know how many people have seen this, but in the October 05
issue of ''[[MacAddict]]'' magazine, there is an add for
''[[OmniGraffle]]'', at the top of which contains a link to Wikipedia
([[The Game (game)]]).

Just amusing...


from_name: Phroziac

body:
put it in 1pt font :P

On 9/26/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> Delphine M?nard wrote:
> > On 9/26/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>See [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing]] for more about that.
> >
> >
> > Kat and I thought about the GFDL issue when starting the article. We
> > figured since Press releases were PD and since  this was close enough
> > to a press release PD would be the best choice, considering that
> > printing the entire text of the GFDL in Esquire was not an option.
> >
>
> There's nothing in the GFDL that says you can't put it in 8 point font,
> is there? :P
>
> Oh well, it would have been interesting to GFDL it, but I don't have a
> problem with making specific things PD. Heck, I do it for all my minor
> edits to articles :)
>
> --
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>


from_name: Ryan Delaney

subject: [WikiEN-l] Fair Use suppression getting silly

body:
On 9/26/05, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have just discovered the school of thought that believes
> that including an image in a category contravenes the "Fair Use" principle
> because displaying the image on the category page amounts to using the
> image
> in an unfair way!
>
> Is it me, or is this just plain silly? A category is simply an
> organisational tool, not an article. Surely a case can be made that the
> proper categorisation of images within an encyclopedia is essential to
> using
> those images correctly.

As I understand it, if the image is not being used for the purpose of
education, satire, or review, we have no fair use claim to it. This is not
the same as saying it is not a "fair" use of the image, which is a
subjective judgment anyway. Put another way, "fair use" does not mean
"whatever is useful to us". We may only use it in a few specific contexts.
Using them as organizational tools for meta pages about the encyclopedia
doesn't qualify; therefore, such use would constitute copyright violation.

- Ryan


from_name: Cormac Lawler

body:
On 9/26/05, SJ <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some documentarists who came to Wikimania last month are interested in
> developing ways for community members to develop their own
> documentaries and shorts from their raw footage. (~20 hours of film,
> including many interviews)  They are also developing a piece of their
> own, but are increasingly excited about the idea of a "wikimentary" --
> seeing what the community would do with the material.
>
> On top of their material, Fuzheado captured a number of interviews
> with Wikimedians around the world, we have full video capture of
> around 20 sessions, we have a Public-Domain micro-documentary from
> Soufron, et al...
>
> Some early discussion about a wikimentary :
>    http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimentary
>
> There are lots of technical and interface issues to work out, some of
> which touch on boundaries we are already pushing when we share and
> collaborate on images and sound files.  What audio/video projects on
> the projects should be alerted to this?
>
> ++SJ ,  filmmaker wannabe

Thanks for pointing this out, Sj. I talked about a Wikimentary and the
logistics thereof at Wikimania with Rory O'Connor (Globalvision) - but
I'm just wondering, where has the talk taken place since then?
Privately? Or on-wiki/list (commons-l)..?

Cormac / [[User:Cormaggio]], eh, ditto ;-)


from_name: Jan Kulveit

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Voting software

body:
On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 09:26:20AM +0300, Marc Girod wrote:
> >>>>> "Jan" == Jan Kulveit <jk-wikitech at ks.cz>
>
> Jan> we would like to elect something similar to ArbCom on cs
>
> Voting is a bad idea.
...

I believe VotingIsEvil vs. VotingIsGood debate is off-topic
here, so it would be better to move further replies to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_vote_on_everything
or private mail.

-----

I usualy find myself advocating the "VotingIsEvil" and
"DoNotVoteOnEverything" positions. I consider e.g. nonexistence
of "Vote on desysoping" on cs: as achievement :-)

But in this case, please take as a premise we want to
create something like en: Arbitration Committee and the question
is how to do that. Well known alternatives are
1) members appointed by some higher authority. This is
problematic in non-english language wikis, because higher
authorities such as Wikimedia Board or Jimbo propably
don't have enough inside in the community.
2) public elections
3) secret elections
I can imagine other possiblilies, e.g. members randomly selected
from active wikipedians, but we dont want to be much original
in this case.

AFAIK 2) was used on fr:, 3) on en:

IMO 3) is better than 2) for number of reasons. The most prominent -
arbitrators should treat all users equal, no matter how they voted,
and this principle is better guaranted by secret elections.
Public voting IMO encourages creation of parties and coalitons
more than private voting.

Additional question is, if elections, which voting system.
That was discussed in great detail before en: ArbCom elections
and I think it worked fine. => Taking the voting software a
vote counting algorithm from en: is IMHO the best option now.

Jan Kulveit


from_name: Frank v Waveren

subject: [Wikitech-l] mediawiki block table indexing

body:
I just had a look at the current version of CVS HEAD mediawiki and it
would appear to me that bug 1244[1] (block table access doing a full
scan of the block table) is back or has never left.

I've forgotten most of the intricacies though, so perhaps I'm
mistaken. I seem to recall that even if the query was being run with
FOR UPDATE, a union (instead of OR) needed to be used to prevent the
table scan (which was only supported in mysql4).

Was the solution to this problem moved off elsewhere, or is this
performance problem back?

1: http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1244

Here is what I thought was the relevant section of Block.php:load()
for your viewing ease:

function load( $address = '', $user = 0, $killExpired = true )
{
   global $wgAntiLockFlags;
   $fname = 'Block::load';
   wfDebug( "Block::load: '$address', '$user', $killExpired\n" );

   $ret = false;
   $killed = false;
   if ( $this->forUpdate() ) {
      $db =& wfGetDB( DB_MASTER );
      if ( $wgAntiLockFlags & ALF_NO_BLOCK_LOCK ) {
         $options = '';
      } else {
         $options = 'FOR UPDATE';
      }
   } else {
      $db =& wfGetDB( DB_SLAVE );
      $options = '';
   }
   $ipblocks = $db->tableName( 'ipblocks' );

   if ( 0 == $user && $address=='' ) {
      $sql = "SELECT * from $ipblocks $options";
   } elseif ($address=="") {
      $sql = "SELECT * FROM $ipblocks WHERE ipb_user={$user} $options";
   } elseif ($user=="") {
      $sql = "SELECT * FROM $ipblocks WHERE ipb_address='" . $db->strencode( $address ) . "' $options";
   } elseif ( $options=='' ) {
# If there are no options (e.g. FOR UPDATE), use a UNION
#  so that the query can make efficient use of indices
$sql = "SELECT * FROM $ipblocks WHERE ipb_address='" . $db->strencode( $address ) .
         "' UNION SELECT * FROM $ipblocks WHERE ipb_user={$user}";
   } else {
# If there are options, a UNION can not be used, use one
# SELECT instead. Will do a full table scan.
      $sql = "SELECT * FROM $ipblocks WHERE (ipb_address='" . $db->strencode( $address ) . "' OR ipb_user={$user}) $options";
   }

...

--
Frank v Waveren                                  Key fingerprint: BDD7 D61E
fvw at var.cx                                              5D39 CF05 4BFC F57A
Public key: hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/468D62C8              FA00 7D51 468D 62C8
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from_name: James R. Johnson

body:
I liked the 'create wiki' button.  If that would come back, but only for
sysops within a language or from a language, that would help out a lot.

James

-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tim Starling
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 5:59 AM
To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: No more new Wikipedias !

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> There are always many vocal supporters, and there are always people who
>> are silently opposed. Or rather, they are silent until those in power
>> give in to the lobby and create new wikis, and then they open up with
>> ridicule and criticism. We've seen it many times before.
>>
>> -- Tim Starling
>>
> This is in my opinion a really nasty argument. It basically says, that
> anything can be frustrated because there are people who are silently
> opposed. It negated all the need of building a visible consensus or
> opinion. In essence, given this as a "reasonable" argument, anything
> goes as long as you are able to support yourself.
>
> Basically you say to the people who want these new languages that they
> should piss off. That your Wikimedia Foundation is not their Wikimedia
> Foundation. That they do not need information in their language.

Look, I know my views are extreme, and I know they're not representative
of the community. I never said those people who were silently opposed
were in the majority, I'm just saying that I have some support. But if
you can't get a single sysadmin out of about 15 to support your cause,
or a single Board member, where is the consensus in favour?

Yes, I'm biased, but why don't you ask Brion instead? He has generally
been in favour of adding languages, his only concern is the criticism
he'll receive if he does so.

If you like, go to [[m:Developers]], work your way down the list of
people with shell access, and make a request to each one in turn. I'll
even give them a tutorial if they want to create a wiki.

What I'm saying is, don't make this about me. I have my opinions, but
there's no reason you can't work around them.

I can't help but feel sympathetic here, the politics involved are
complex, the method for "working around" my opinions might not be
obvious. So let me give you some advice. Here's what I think you should
do to get new languages created:

1) Find a sysadmin who is willing to get involved
2) Develop a language creation policy, with the close involvement of
your chosen sysadmin. Get their agreement on every detail, give whatever
concessions are necessary to acheive this.
3) With help from me or Brion, your chosen sysadmin should then become
familiar with the technical details of wiki creation, and should be able
to perform it in the future with little fuss.

If you can't find a sysadmin (i.e. someone with shell access) for item
1, find someone with CVS access instead. Have them develop a web
interface for language addition. I've already developed a script for
adding wikis (remember the create wiki button), so they can use that as
a base. Make it so that anyone with steward access (or something) can
add languages. That widens your field from 15 to about 60.

If there's no one with CVS access willing to do it, then find anyone at
all who knows PHP. Have them develop the web interface as a patch, then
ask someone with CVS access to commit it.

I will support this process. I'll offer technical advice to the
developer or sysadmin involved, I'll commit patches to CVS and I'll
activate the automated interface on the live site, assuming it works. I
reserve the right to express my opinions in the policy discussion, but I
promise I won't resort to silly stunts like threatening to leave.

I generally don't fix bugs or upload language files for wikis such as
jbo and got, and I reserve the right to extend that to any particularly
objectionable new wikis. That shouldn't be a problem though because
Brion is happy to work on any Wikimedia wiki.

I know this all seems like a lot of work, but I'm am telling you
honestly, this is what I think is required. It'll satisfy the Board
(they don't have to ratify the policy), it'll satisfy the developers and
it'll allow a compromise between those for and against new languages.
All you need is one developer. If your cause really is a worthy one, you
should be able to find one.

-- Tim Starling

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


from_name: Zachary Harden

subject: [WikiEN-l] FW: Re: Uses of your strips on Wikipedia.

body:
For your information, we have permission to use a Foxtrot strip that was
made in May of 2005 related to us.

Regards,

Zachary Harden (User:Zscout370)
Oceanside, California

>From: Bill Amend <billamend at mac.com>
>To: Zachary Harden <zscout370 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Uses of your strips on Wikipedia.
>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:16:39 -0500
>
>How about this...it's fine until you hear otherwise.
>
>Bill Amend
>
> > From: Zachary Harden <zscout370 at hotmail.com>
> > Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:44:17 +0000
> > To: billamend at mac.com
> > Subject: Uses of your strips on Wikipedia.
> >
> > Dear Mr. Amend,
> >
> > My name is Zachary Harden, one of 500+ administrators on the website
> > Wikipedia. There was a strip that you wrote in the "Foxtrot" series that
>was
> > released on May 5th of 2005 talking about our website. Since other users
> > liked the strip and want to use it, they have uploaded it to our
>servers:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image%3AFoxtrot050507.gif. I was wondering
>if
> > you could grant us permission to use this one strip on our website in an
> > article about Foxtrot in general or about Wikipedia. If you also wish to
> > give out suggestions for its use, or ask for it to be deleted, then
>please
> > let me know. And, with your permission, I could forward this email to
>the
> > Wikimedia Foundation, the organization hosting the website Wikipedia, to
>let
> > them know about this copyright issue. They collect emails about
>copyright
> > issues and make sure we have explicit permission to use anything they
> > created.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Zachary Harden
> > Wikipedia Administrator "Zscout370"
> >
> >
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Fair Use suppression getting silly

references:
<dhaodu$usu$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<2ed171fb05092701414ca01dbd@mail.gmail.com>
	<dhb73c$5ti$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On 9/27/05, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you add [[Category:Pictures of Ford cars]] to that page, the picture
> will
> then appear on the appropriate page **as a member of that category**. Not
> illustrating the category...not describing it...simply as a **member** of
> the category.
>
> Some people seem to think that our Fair Use policy should be so draconian
> that this kind of picture should not be allowed to belong to any category,
> simply because the automatic display of the image's thumbnail on the
> associated category page constitutes violation of Fair Use.

Again, fair use law has nothing to do with what we, personally, find
unreasonable or draconian. If it is the case that having images listed in a
category is incompatible with the law, then we shouldn't do it, period. You
would have to show why this practice constitutes a fair use and the burden
of proof would be squarely on you. As it happens, I think that whoever is
raising this issue is making a pretty good point.

- Ryan


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?

body:
Poe, Marshall wrote:
> Re Angela's mention of the "community" discussing and deciding things.
>
> Just how many folks are subscribed to Foundation-l?  What percentage of
> them actually contribute to Foundation-l when a new project is proposed,
> or a question is raised?  I've spent a lot of time on a lot of lists
> (founded and moderated one for three years), and this one is, well,
> quite inactive.  And not only that, it's sometimes not very civil (e.g.
> "Do it yourself").
>
> Communities are groups of individuals with common interests who unite to
> further those interests.  They have to contribute.  They have to be
> helpful.  Do the subscribers to Foundation-l contribute?  Are they
> helpful?  A more basic question: do they even have common interests?
>
> All the Best, Marshall

Hi

When I look at it overall, I can't say there is one area from which most
of the significant information/feedback is coming. Generally, I assume
that there is an important number of editors registered to this list,
enough to get a significant and interesting feedback. However, I also
know that

1) there are not enough editors subscribed to it to be certain
information given through this ml will be reliably passed along in all
projects. So we need other channels for information.

2) there are not enough editors subcribed to it for it to be a reliable
subset of opinion of all editors. So, we need more subsets before making
a decision.

3) many of its subscribers do not read all mails.

4) many readers dare not participate to it (ie, there is a perception of
a very large room, in which it is tough to speak aloud).

For all these reasons, you must be aware that this list is only one
amongst many channels of discussion. Many discussions occur on irc as
well. Many on other lists or even "private" lists. Once a small group
has recognised a common interest, they also start private email and
private irc channels. Add to this meta, and our subgroups here and there
(such as for me the french community).

Keep in mind that a very small percentage of our participants is
actually really interested and willing to do things for the Foundation.
In most cases, people just do not care AT ALL. As long as things are
running, they are happy. They will just pop their heads when the website
is running slow, or when we put a fundraising banner at the top of their
favorite pages. Otherwise, they happily contribute to articles and are
quite glad to leave the administration stuff to others to take care of.

And this is probably fine :-)

For a newcomer, it implies two things. If you want to participate to
Foundation issues, you must dig up your way (sometimes the hard way) in
the current subset taking care of it. And if you are very careful, you
will notice after a while that many of those actually doing things do
not participate to this list. You can also try to get the help of a
god-mother to get you in the labyrinthus. But mostly, you have to get
noticed in being bold in doing things, so that you begin to get involved
in internal matters. And this list is one of the place where we can
notice people. If there is ONE interest in it, that might be this one.

The other point is that "Community discuss and decide things", but the
project is now to large for the "community" to be a simple entity. It is
rather a set of moving subentities, each having a common interest of a
sort. It is a slow and sometimes difficult process to navigate between
all these subsets. But when a board takes a decision, it has to. It has
to try to really jaudge the amount of support and opposition on a
certain issue, so as to try to take the best choice between what the
editors would prefer and what is strategically, economically and
socially best. Editors often complain how slow this process is, but I
think there are no other way. For example, we can see the last proposals
for new projects. We will not react to them because we first need people
feedback. If a project really interest the editors, we will know soon
enough. A person will say "yeah, good idea", another will approve, one
will write us privately, a next begin a vote... and the ball will get
rolling; We can sometimes help the ball running or trying to slow it
down, but generally, once an idea gets a supportive community and a
champion, it is likely to succeed. Otherwise not. Observe this process
happening during a couple of months, and you will understand better I think.

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: What "community" ?


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Fwd: New Internet Rules in China

body:
Fred Bauder wrote:

>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
>> Date: September 26, 2005 10:56:17 AM MDT
>> To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>> Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
>> Subject: New Internet Rules in China
>>
>>
>> These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and
>> Chinese Wikipedias:
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?
>>
>> Fred

Thanks for the info Fred...

Ant


from_name: Phil Boswell

body:
I can understand that using images willy-nilly in articles to which they
bear only the most lateral of relationships might well give rise to a real
problem, and I have no argument with the idea of removing such uses.

However it would appear that some people are taking the argument to rather
silly extremes. I have just discovered the school of thought that believes
that including an image in a category contravenes the "Fair Use" principle
because displaying the image on the category page amounts to using the image
in an unfair way!

Is it me, or is this just plain silly? A category is simply an
organisational tool, not an article. Surely a case can be made that the
proper categorisation of images within an encyclopedia is essential to using
those images correctly.

I was under the impression that ideally, **all** images should belong to at
least one category, depending upon their licensing status. Obviously there
are those who disagree.
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]


from_name: Guettarda

subject: [WikiEN-l] Released to Wikipedia

body:
Thanks Angela - that was what I was trying to figure out - who should they
contact.

On 9/27/05, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/26/05, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Geoffry Philp page was a copyvio, but the anon who wrote it has
> posted
> > the following material on the talk page.
> >
> > "I, Geoffrey Philp, am the holder of the copyright to
> > geoffreyphilp.com <http://geoffreyphilp.com><http://geoffreyphilp.com>and
> I grant Wikipedia all
> > rights to use the information contained on the
> > page".
>
> This is one area where I tend not to assume good faith without
> evidence. How do you know this anonymous user is really Geoffrey
> Philp? They should email permissions at wikimedia.org from a
> geoffreyphilp.com <http://geoffreyphilp.com> email address or from the
> email address mentioned on
> that website, stating that they release the work under the GFDL
> (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFDL>). An alternative would be for
> them to make a note on the website itself that the content is GFDL.
>
> Angela.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
Any rational person, having listened to a broad sample of American
public opinion, for example, those calling into Washington Journal (C-
Span's morning call-in show), would be justified in concluding the
American people were not ready for democracy. But it is a great
conversation.

Fred

On Sep 27, 2005, at 2:02 AM, Andrew Lih wrote:

> On 9/27/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <macgyvermagic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm so happy I'm not Chinese.
>>
>
> Perhaps you mean, "I'm glad I'm not residing in the People's
> Republic of China."
>
>
>> I would hate to be restricted like that.
>>
>
> Then again, you have people living in the good old free US, and wind
> up choosing Fox News Channel anyway.
>
> -Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Fastfission

body:
Who is advocating this? I haven't seen anybody saying this on the talk
pages for WP:FU or WP:WPFU. None of the people I've seen who have been
involved in discussing fair use policy and tagging seem to be
advocating this in the slightest.

Anyway, the categories serve important organizational purposes which
outweight their very marginal danger of being related to any sort of
"fair use" problem in and of themselves. We need the categories to
assess and review "fair use" media in the first place -- the danger of
not having them (which would make monitoring impossible) is far
greater than the danger of having them. Categorization is just a form
of indexing, it is not the primary "use" of the images and I'm willing
to bet any judge with half a brain would know that. But again, I
haven't seen anybody honestly advocating this.

I doubt anybody would sue by saying "well, sure it's fair use in the
*article*, but the tiny icon-sized version they use to sort the
licensing status, that's what we think is infringing on our
copyright." They'd be laughed out of the courtroom, and they would
know that.

FF

On 9/27/05, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can understand that using images willy-nilly in articles to which they
> bear only the most lateral of relationships might well give rise to a real
> problem, and I have no argument with the idea of removing such uses.
>
> However it would appear that some people are taking the argument to rather
> silly extremes. I have just discovered the school of thought that believes
> that including an image in a category contravenes the "Fair Use" principle
> because displaying the image on the category page amounts to using the image
> in an unfair way!
>
> Is it me, or is this just plain silly? A category is simply an
> organisational tool, not an article. Surely a case can be made that the
> proper categorisation of images within an encyclopedia is essential to using
> those images correctly.
>
> I was under the impression that ideally, **all** images should belong to at
> least one category, depending upon their licensing status. Obviously there
> are those who disagree.
> --
> Phil
> [[en:User:Phil Boswell]]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
Nobody would ever claim that it means "whatever is useful to us." But
I think the "nature of the use" aspect of the "fair use" clause would
come into play here: the nature of the use is, simply, to help make
sure that our use of the images in the articles (which is clearly
their primary use) is properly done, and it allows us to take
inventory of all such images. The effect upon any copyright holder of
such tiny images being arranged in such a way would be marginal. You
might as well argue that the use separate "Image:" pages for images is
a fair use violation, since on those pages the actual image file is
not being used under narrow "fair use" provisions.

I think any judge would buy the argument that the real "fair use"
question is how they are used in the primary content of the
encyclopedia.

In any event, "fair use" is legally rather ambiguous -- I think though
that this is a fairly "low risk" version of "fair use", that is, it is
unlikely to make anybody think that they would have a very good case
for suing us. Categorization helps us find, avoid, and change "high
risk" and "medium risk" cases (for example, in retagging all images
with a {{poster}} tag to new use- and content-based poster tags, a
large effort which was recently completed), which are the ones to
worry more about. In my non-lawyerly opinion.

FF

On 9/27/05, Ryan Delaney <ryan.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/26/05, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have just discovered the school of thought that believes
> > that including an image in a category contravenes the "Fair Use" principle
> > because displaying the image on the category page amounts to using the
> > image
> > in an unfair way!
> >
> > Is it me, or is this just plain silly? A category is simply an
> > organisational tool, not an article. Surely a case can be made that the
> > proper categorisation of images within an encyclopedia is essential to
> > using
> > those images correctly.
>
>
> As I understand it, if the image is not being used for the purpose of
> education, satire, or review, we have no fair use claim to it. This is not
> the same as saying it is not a "fair" use of the image, which is a
> subjective judgment anyway. Put another way, "fair use" does not mean
> "whatever is useful to us". We may only use it in a few specific contexts.
> Using them as organizational tools for meta pages about the encyclopedia
> doesn't qualify; therefore, such use would constitute copyright violation.
>
> - Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

body:
I'm so happy I'm not Chinese. I would hate to be restricted like that.

On 9/27/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Fred Bauder wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> Date: September 26, 2005 10:56:17 AM MDT
> >> To: wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> >> Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> Subject: New Internet Rules in China
> >>
> >>
> >> These new regulations will undoubtedly affect both the English and
> >> Chinese Wikipedias:
> >>
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/international/asia/26china.html?
> >>
> >> Fred
>
> Thanks for the info Fred...
>
> Ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>