subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
Snowspinner stated for the record:

> I was working on about three different ways of responding to the  point,
> but Sean pretty much pwned me there.

Woot!  I didn't make the list of "Elders of Wikipedia," but I least I
pwned Snowspinner.  My week isn't a total loss!

--
  Sean Barrett     | I'm a big fan of scientific advancement,
  sean at epoptic.com | especially if nudity's involved.


list: foundation-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: daniwo59 at aol.com

subject: [Foundation-l] Day 1 of the Fundraising Drive

body:
Hello, Bonjour, Guten Abend, Bon Giorno

I thought it would be nice to keep you posted how are fundraising drive is
going. It hasn't been twenty-four hours yet, but it is midnight, UTC.

So far, we have earned $13,219.74. That is 6.6 % of our primary objective  of
$200,000. I am still trying to figure out how many people donated :-) Once I
do that, I will keep you posted.

A few things to note. I have been checking the numbers all day. It is the
first time I have had access to this information, and I just want to say how
rewarding it is. We have received quite a few donations of $100, but there are
also plenty of small donations. While the big donations are exciting, seeing
people give $1 or 1 euro, a small sum that they can afford,  is  also very
moving. It means that people want to help in any way they can.

Another thing to note is that seeing all the names, I don't recognize
anyone. In other words, we are having an impact far beyond our community of  active
wikipedians. It is very rewarding to see that.

Well, that's all. Just wanted to keep you posted.

Danny


list: wikimedia-l


list: wikien-l

from_name: Snowspinner

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
I was working on about three different ways of responding to the
point, but Sean pretty much pwned me there.

-Snowspinner

On Aug 19, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Sean Barrett wrote:
>
> It's not "their work."  If they do not want their writing to be
> edited mercilessly BY NAZIS and redistributed at will BY NAZIS,
> they should not have submitted it.
>
> --
>  Sean Barrett     | I'm a big fan of scientific advancement,
>  sean at epoptic.com | especially if nudity's involved.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low EQs

body:
I havn't had any luck w them ;(

Jack (Sam Spade)

> I think apologies can help a lot to stop arguments.
>
> --Mgm


subject: [WikiEN-l] Over-eager new admins

body:
I also think the bureaucrats might want to be a bit less eager to
promote, on highly disputed nominations.

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 8/19/05, Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> Today's blocking of an IP indefinitely for just being a clueless
> newbie is only the most recent example of a recently-promoted admin
> being too keen to block, and to block for too long.
>
> I have raised this issue once on the Admin's noticeboard:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN#New_admins_being_over-enthusiastic_with_blocks
>
> But I also want to raise it here for any extra input, and also in the
> hope certain people are listening :-).
>
> Perhaps the beauracrats could add to their "congrats" message a word
> of advice on (not) blocking.
>
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Delphine Ménard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Image info

body:
On 8/19/05, Jake Waskett <jake at waskett.org> wrote:
> > > Sorry to bother anybody, but I'm perplexed. Can anyone tell me how to
> > > find the licensing information and identity of whoever uploaded an image?
> >
> > Click on the image, and you go to a page with a name like
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Filename.jpg
> >
> > This should have, at the bottom, a tag saying the image license, and a
> > log showing the user who uploaded it.
>
> Thanks Andrew and Mgm.

I'll just add that in case this image was uploaded on Wikimedia
Commons, you will only see the licence information and you will have
to click on the Commons warning and access the commons page to see who
uploaded the image. Transclusion of image information from commons
only show licence infomation and description on the various projects
pages.

Side note: This is one more reason not to forget to state the author
in an "author" line on the information page when uploading an image on
Commons, rather than just a "taken by self" which is too often seen.
;-)

Best,

Delphine
--
~notafish


from_name: steve v

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
Nazism is just *conservatism taken to levels of
*fascism, with a racialist concept of ethnicity as its
focus.

For any ethno-fascists to dip their toes into the
world of an open society is a really great thing. The
more communicative and better informed they are, the
less likely it is they will remain less so.

SV

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


from_name: Fantasy

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: 300 Euro -> grey market...

body:
Maybe one last comment for today:

I think it is happening already, that people get money for Articles in
Wikipedia.

I am favoring transparency.

If we forbid giving money for articles, we move all this "market" into a "grey
market", and I don't think that that is in the interrest of Wikipedia...

Good night,
Fantasy :-)


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
--- daniwo59 at aol.com wrote:
> Hello, Bonjour, Guten Abend, Bon Giorno
>
> I thought it would be nice to keep you posted how are fundraising drive is
> going. It hasn't been twenty-four hours yet, but it is midnight, UTC.

More info is at http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Fund_drives/2005/Q3

So far only the Day 0 detailed PayPal data are posted.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikitech-l] WikiPedia Malayalam

body:
Ginu,

Please understand, one person complaining that it is wrong, with 3
people who seem to think it's right, puts me (and others) in a
position that is difficult, since none of us knows Malayalam. You
might be right, but it's not something we can just take your word for
-- we have no reason to trust anybody more than anybody else, so we
rely on numbers only, and 3 people against 1 is a very strong warning
against taking action.

Also, you may consult with the community on Talk pages, you do not
nessecarily need to use a mailing list. This is generally what is done
on Wikipedias -- the community's main channel of communication is
discussion pages on the Wiki itself.

Mark

On 19/08/05, Ginu George <ginu.george at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mark,
>
> Even if its native speakers, its wrong!!!
> I dont know who edited the logo and the pages.
>
>
> In fact, the native speaker who translated the logo text is a
> different person from the one who actually made the logo, so that
> means it went through at least two people, and more have worked on the
> Malayalam Wikipedia since then and nobody has complained or even mentioned
> it there.
>
> >>>>>>> I dont know what they feel? But its wrong, I have already send the
> scanned image for the same to the list. I dont know whether u saw that or
> not. Feel the difference first.
>
>
> last time i requested to wiki for creating a mailing list for malayalam.
> Yann said we will think about that later. So how come i can send mail to a a
> non-existing list. First of all let it come, then i will discuss!!!
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ginu George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:37 AM
> To: Wikimedia developers
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] WikiPedia Malayalam
>
> I don't know what to say to this -- everything on the Malayalam
> Wikipedia is written by native speakers.
>
> I sincerely doubt that the logo is wrong, because the logo itself was
> made by native speakers.
>
> I don't know what font it uses, but it appears to render the words
> correctly.
>
> In fact, the native speaker who translated the logo text is a
> different person from the one who actually made the logo, so that
> means it went through at least two people, and more have worked on the
> Malayalam Wikipedia since then and nobody has complained or even
> mentioned it there.
>
> If you have a problem with anything about the Malayalam Wikipedia,
> please discuss it with the Malayalam Wikipedia community first.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On 18/08/05, SJ <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Ginu, deciding what font to use for the logo text is still a gray
> > area, particularly in non-latin scripts.  I believe there are one or
> > two malayalam editors on the translators mailing list; I am including
> > it in copy.
> >
> > What are your thoughts about the font currently used for Wikipedia article
> text?
> >
> > To update other interface messages, see
> >  http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Allmessages
> >
> > You must be an administrator to edit the message pages.
> > (But you can also get adminship just to do that kind of work)
> >
> > Sj
> >
> > On 8/18/05, Ginu George <ginu.george at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > In which format I have to send the text. Could you please tell the font
> name
> > > or can attach the same in reply. Otherwise I can send a font file along
> with
> > > the correctly written font.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >
> > > Ginu George
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sj [mailto:2.718281828 at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:46 AM
> > > To: Ginu George
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] WikiPedia Malayalam
> > >
> > > Hello Ginu,
> > >
> > > Did you get a response about Malayalam and editing the logo?
> > >
> > > To edit the logo you should write the text you want to include, and send
> it
> > > in an email to the wikitech-l  list....
> > >
> > > Let me know if you have any trouble.
> > >   SJ
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:08:17 +0400, Ginu George <ginu.george at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I saw the language version for Malayalam in Wikipedia is not in full
> > > > mode for long. But i go through the entire stuff. There is no option
> > > > to edit the logo text. Thats wrong. And i would like to do the project
> > > > for malayalam. So if you can provide further information, then thats
> > > > better i think.
> > > >
> > > > Hope you respond soon
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards
> > > > Ginu George
> > > > www.ginugeorge.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > +sj+
> > >  _ _ :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
> --
> SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
> QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
> POSSIT MATERIARI
> ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Spell checking in MediaWiki

body:
While Walter's advice about checking spelling with the Google toolbar
can be useful for some languages (I believe it works for English,
German, Spanish, French, and Swedish, maybe I missed one?), it won't
be useful for everybody else -- what is a Hindi Wikipedian or a Xhosa
Wikipedian to do for spellchecking?

Certainly, ispell libraries are a much more appealing option because
they support a huge list of languages, and it's not extremely
difficult to add more.

Mark

On 19/08/05, Jeffrey McGee <jeffamcgee at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/19/05, Niklas Laxstr?m <niklas.laxstrom at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 19/08/05, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> > > This function can be useful. But now whit the google toolbar for Firefox
> > > you can do very easy spell checking. For IE is there also a version. The
> > > need is reduced.
> >
> > In my understanding google toolbar supports only English. Does pspell
> > support other languages? And there is people who don't want to install
> > google toolbar anyway.
> >
> > ----
> > Niklas Laxstr?m
>
>
> Pspell (http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.pspell.php) uses the GNU Aspell
> library and Aspell claims to support quite a few languages:
> http://aspell.sourceforge.net/man-html/Supported.html
>
> I have tested my prototype a little with Spanish:
> http://66.205.125.240/spell/index.php/User_talk:192.168.1.101
> But you won't be able to test it since you can't change $wgLanguageCode.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Haukur Þorgeirsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
> is there anyway to prevent them from forking wikipedia. I'm sure a lot of
> editors would be displeased to see their work on a neo-Nazi site. It might
> be too late to stop them from using existing material but could any of the
> rights be rewritten to prevent them from using future revisions and new
> material?

I would be opposed to any move in that direction.

Regards,
Haukur


subject: [WikiEN-l] A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
--- andyl2004 at sympatico.ca wrote:
> The neo-Nazi site "Stormfront" operated by Don Black is preparing to launch
> its own "Stormfront Wikipedia" via Mediawiki
>
> http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=223684

They are more than welcome to do so, so long as they respect the relevant
licenses and trademarks. For example; they could not, under *any*
circumstances, call their deployed wiki the "Stormfront Wikipedia" or in any
way imply a connection between them and Wikimedia.

-- mav

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


from_name: Walter Vermeir

body:
Jeffrey McGee schreef:
> Howdy,
>
> I'd like to add a spell checker to MediaWiki using the pspell library.
[cut]

This function can be useful. But now whit the google toolbar for Firefox
you can do very easy spell checking. For IE is there also a version. The
need is reduced.

http://toolbar.google.com/firefox/

--
Ook een artikeltje schrijven? WikipediaNL, de vrije GNU/FDL encyclopedie
http://www.wikipedia.be


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 19/08/05, Measure <measure at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find the idea laughable. Wikis tend to produce nuetral viewpoints, so a
> bigoted wiki would be hard to create, unless they require registration and
> ban any users who disagree with them... but they'd have to make it harder to
> register to stop people from just making up a new name and pass on the spot.

According to the linked thread, they are indeed planning
registration-locking and considering the moderation of new users.

(Incidentally, if you look at that thread you see the problem with
auto-emoticons - there's random smiles in copied text)

They also mention what they consider currently objectionable - nice to
know which pages we're doing right, as it were...

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: adam

subject: [WikiEN-l] A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
Andrew Gray wrote:

>On 19/08/05, Measure <measure at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I find the idea laughable. Wikis tend to produce nuetral viewpoints, so a
>>bigoted wiki would be hard to create, unless they require registration and
>>ban any users who disagree with them... but they'd have to make it harder to
>>register to stop people from just making up a new name and pass on the spot.
>>
>>
>
>According to the linked thread, they are indeed planning
>registration-locking and considering the moderation of new users.
>
>(Incidentally, if you look at that thread you see the problem with
>auto-emoticons - there's random smiles in copied text)
>
>They also mention what they consider currently objectionable - nice to
>know which pages we're doing right, as it were...
>
>
>
"Wikipedia has no integrity" - We should use that as a tagline.

Adam


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 19/08/05, Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
> andyl2004 at sympatico.ca wrote:
> > The neo-Nazi site "Stormfront" operated by Don Black is preparing to
> > launch its own "Stormfront Wikipedia" via Mediawiki
> >
> > http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=223684
>
> Damn, I knew we should have put an anti-Nazi clause in the MediaWiki
> license.

I wonder what RMS would think of that. ;)

On a more serious note, does anyone fancy making doubly and triply
sure that these folks realise that "Wikipedia" is a trademark and not
a generic term - I mean, I guess they know really, but several posters
in that thread are abusing the term. - We wouldn't want them to start
setting things up labelled as "The Stormfront Wikipedia", and then
having to go to the effort of changing them when the Wikimedia
Foundation threatens to sue... :p

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 19/08/05, Rowan Collins <rowan.collins at gmail.com> wrote:

> On a more serious note, does anyone fancy making doubly and triply
> sure that these folks realise that "Wikipedia" is a trademark and not
> a generic term - I mean, I guess they know really, but several posters

I'm not so sure they know. A lot of people's first (or only) exposure
to wikis is Wikipedia; it's not that big a step to assume that
"wikipedia" is the term for a wiki, that the term is a deriviation of
wikipedia and not the other way around.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 19/08/05, andyl2004 at sympatico.ca <andyl2004 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> The following is an incomplete list of those suspected to be
> members of, or to be the "useful idiots" of, the so-called
> "Elders of Wikipedia" (the Zionist cabal which has Wikipedia
> in its grip).

Why do I forsee this list becoming a badge of honour...

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: James D. Forrester

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Andrew Gray wrote:
> On 19/08/05, andyl2004 at sympatico.ca <andyl2004 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> The following is an incomplete list of those suspected to be
>> members of, or to be the "useful idiots" of, the so-called
>> "Elders of Wikipedia" (the Zionist cabal which has Wikipedia
>> in its grip).
>
> Why do I forsee this list becoming a badge of honour...
>

... and I'm not on it! ;-(

Yours sincerely,
- --
James D. Forrester
Wikimedia : [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
E-Mail    : james at jdforrester.org
IM (MSN)  : jamesdforrester at hotmail.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDBmj4kn3kUxZyJx0RAiqoAJ9bZ1uDT3hfkL49z6TWFrq1T+csRQCdE0La
oLQMTCytK9zUMgAkQDAvt2I=
=oGW3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiProject Decency

body:
[My apologies to Oskar, who gets this twice 'cause I screwed up]

On 20/08/05, Oskar Sigvardsson <oskarsigvardsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/18/05, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (I don't even know where to *find* a list of banned users, and I've
> > been here best part of a year.)
>
> [[Wikipedia:List of banned users]]? No it can't be, that'd be too obvious.

I suppose I should have thought of that as soon as I sent it...

Nonetheless, I think my point still stands. There's no plausible
reason I'd know to go looking for that page as a new user - indeed,
there's no real reason I'd be likely to know about banning.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Niklas Laxström

body:
On 19/08/05, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> This function can be useful. But now whit the google toolbar for Firefox
> you can do very easy spell checking. For IE is there also a version. The
> need is reduced.

In my understanding google toolbar supports only English. Does pspell
support other languages? And there is people who don't want to install
google toolbar anyway.

----
Niklas Laxstr?m


from_name: Spamsammler

subject:
[Wikitech-l] StopWords ? Is it possible to translate ? - Try it
	again

body:
Hi,
(dont no that it was send, i do not became it. I try it again)

just a small question. Im german and we have a german small Mediawiki running.
If we put some new words in FulltextStoplist.php it dont work.
How can we set some stopwords?

regards


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 20/08/05, Oskar Sigvardsson <oskarsigvardsson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I realise though that if they wanted to start a fork, there is nothing
> we could do about it. However, I wonder wether sending them an email
> reminding them of these two things is a good idea, it might sound as
> if we encourage it.

It might be best to wait, check on it in a few weeks. If they start
using the name, then poke them a bit?

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Oskar Sigvardsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiProject Decency

body:
On 8/18/05, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:

> (I don't even know where to *find* a list of banned users, and I've
> been here best part of a year.)

[[Wikipedia:List of banned users]]? No it can't be, that'd be too obvious.

--gkhan


from_name: Erik Zachte

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Resignation as CRO /  Information flow

body:
Anthere, thanks for you extensive reply on my previous mail.
Jimbo, thanks for recognizing that my remarks are meant constructively.

Anthere, I hope you did not think of me as one of the guys who threw 'oil on
the fire'. If so, I would feel very sorry for that.

I certainly did touch on a sensitive issue when tensions were already high.
Erik Moellers resignation is the apotheosis of a longer time of difficult
relations between him and the board. So his announcement will have done
little to make your wikibreak bear fruit. And then, on top of that, I made
some remarks about the role of the board, as if you did not have enough on
your mind yet. Maybe I should have postponed my reaction and should not have
jumped up immediately to try to put this event in a broader perspective.

At the other hand: part of my point is exactly that it may be useful to make
roles and rules more explicit in times when everyone is on a good footing
with each other, since it is much more difficult to discuss these things
when emotions are already running high, and conflicts have started. So with
hindsight I illustrated my point inadvertently with my initial mail. Let me
quote from my first mail to emphasize this even more: "So let us be inspired
to clarify roles, responsibilities and procedures, at a time when we can do
without in many occasions, in preparation for a time when we might need more
clarity and transparency badly."

Anthere, not all of my questions are addressed (to be clear about this, you
did elaborate on how you see the role of the officers, but not the
jurisdiction  of the board, perhaps you think this is self evident by its
actions) but I will happily defer this discussion till a later time, and
move half of this mail into my drafts folder.

Oh one more thing: I'm one those guys that, as Chris described, does not
often write a mail to tell I'm happy with how things are going.
Maybe I should, but these lists get spammed with trivia already far too
much, and I feel a mail about how I have nothing to say, apart from that
things are going well, or how I also support a decision that is already
approved by most writers, would be quite trivial indeed.

So for the record, I'm in some cases reasonably happy with how things are
going, and in many cases very.
And still euphoric after Wikimania by the way.
Enjoy your wikibreak. :-)

Erik Zachte


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
I was just going to write a polite email to the head honcho over there
reminding him that they cannot use the wikipedia name for copyright
reasons and that they have to reference wikipedia per the GFDL. Then I
realised THEY HAVE TO REFERENCE WIKIPEDIA ON EVERY PAGE per the GFDL.
Holy mother of crap! I don't want to read an article on how good
JewWatch or whatever it's name is and then see on the bottom of the
page "Original article from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". I feel
dirty....................

I realise though that if they wanted to start a fork, there is nothing
we could do about it. However, I wonder wether sending them an email
reminding them of these two things is a good idea, it might sound as
if we encourage it.

Anyway, if it's done someone more influential than me should perhaps
compose it (although I wouldn't mind doing it if people wanted me to),
but I am thinking perhaps that the best way to go is ignore the whole
thing and hope that they forget about it.

--gkhan


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/20/05, andyl2004 at sympatico.ca <andyl2004 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> The suspected "Elders of Wikipedia" are:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jayjg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jfdwolff
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:RK
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gzuckier
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:IZAK
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eliezer
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TShilo12
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Max_rspct
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ezra_Wax
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MathKnight
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leifern
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Humus_sapiens
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fintor
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kuratowski's_Ghost
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PhatJew
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:RachelBrown
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jpgordon
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jdavidb
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Themindset
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Robert_McClenon
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:RyanFreisling

Dude! This list rules!!! I love these guys :D

--gkhan


from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] Logos and Wiktionary

body:
The Verba Volant mailing list <http://www.verba-volant.net/> sent a
mail to their subscribers today stating the service (which seems to be
sending out multilingual quotations) was "offered thanks to the
cooperation between Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/> and Logos
Group <http://www.logos.it/>."

To avoid any further confusion over this, there have been discussions
between Jimmy Wales, Logos, and other interested parties (namely,
Gerard and Sj), but any discussions have simply resulted, so far, in
some proposed ideas about how Logos might work with Wiktionary, not
Wikipedia as the mail suggested. Gerard has just put together a page
about this proposal at
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logos.Wiktionary>. For background
information, please see
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary>.

Discussion about any aspects of this proposal are still very welcome
on those meta pages, or on the Wiktionary mailing list, and the fact
that discussions regarding the proposed project are taking place with
external parties should not be seen as a reflection of any decision
already having been made. Comments by the existing Wiktionary
community, and anyone else interested, would be very valuable as we
move towards various decisions about the project.

Angela


subject: [Foundation-l] Logos and Wiktionary


list: wiktionary-l

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Logos and Wiktionary


from_name: Walter van Kalken

subject: >>: Re: [Foundation-l] Re: 300 Euro -> grey market...

body:
Fantasy wrote:

>Maybe one last comment for today:
>
>I think it is happening already, that people get money for Articles in
>Wikipedia.
>
>I am favoring transparency.
>
>If we forbid giving money for articles, we move all this "market" into a "grey
>market", and I don't think that that is in the interrest of Wikipedia...
>
>
>
I personally really do not mind if people get financial incentives. As
long as we guard our principal of NPOV. I am happy to know if people
were making money on writing articles! I would love to join them :)

Waerth/Walter


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiProject Decency

body:
> I must be the only person on Wikipedia who saw -Ril-'s nick, & did
> not immediately think of Lir.

not quite

--
geni


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
considering the amount we collectivly know about effective vandalism
tactics. no thats wrong.

--
geni


body:
Ginu,

It isn't that I don't believe you.

Please understand: nobody has anything to make a good decision here.

You are telling people, "the Malayalam Wikipedia is wrong". But none
of us knows Malayalam. So we cannot decide whether you are correct.

The people already at the Malayalam Wikipedia seem to have no problem.
They are all Malayalees, so they are not using machine translation
because it is their native language. There are at least 3 of them.

This is not to say that you are wrong -- you might be right. But, do
you have anything you might convince people with? To simply say, "I am
right, and everybody else is wrong" does not help -- no change will be
made based on that alone. But if you have something more, that a
grammarian or a PhD in Malayalam language or some such expert agrees
with you, or have citations from a book for your corrections, then
there may be room for changes.

Again, though, I think the best avenue for sorting this out is for you
to discuss it on the Malayalam Wikipedia. Remember, Wikipedia is
freely editable by anybody, so you may add comments on discussion
pages and invite feedback from the existing community.

Also, Google localisation is by no means a prior qualification --
anybody can translate the user interface for Google, no matter what
their knowledge, it is a largely open system, and there are others
working on Malayalam localisation for Google as well (in fact, I have
e-mailed with some of them before).

I'm also thinking a bit that this may be a font problem. It seems
recently somebody made changes to the Malayalam Wikipedia which was
due to a bad font, instead of real spelling errors. Please see
http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%95%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AA%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%9F%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AF:%E0%B4%B8%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%97%E0%B4%A4%E0%B4%82%2C_%E0%B4%A8%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%97%E0%B4%A4%E0%B4%B0%E0%B5%86
-- if you are using certain fonts, it will appear with "spelling
mistakes", but this is because of the font. You need a better font, to
fix the apparent errors.

Mark

On 20/08/05, Ginu Gmail <ginu.george at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Mark,
>
> For Google am doing the localization. Now am correcting their main page in
> Malayalam. They told it will take some time to correct that in the main
> page. And using machine translation for Malayalam will not be good, I can
> show that through so many examples.
>
>
> If 1 against 3 is for the right thing, I believe I have to go ahead. As a
> journalist I am always putting that. If you feel the 3 is right then skip my
> mails. Carry on the wrong thing in wikipedia if u like.
>
> If u need I can make the same comment from 100's. Don't thing bad in my
> mail. I am always writing straight
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Ginu George
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:46 AM
> To: Wikimedia developers
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Spell checking in MediaWiki
>
> While Walter's advice about checking spelling with the Google toolbar
> can be useful for some languages (I believe it works for English,
> German, Spanish, French, and Swedish, maybe I missed one?), it won't
> be useful for everybody else -- what is a Hindi Wikipedian or a Xhosa
> Wikipedian to do for spellchecking?
>
> Certainly, ispell libraries are a much more appealing option because
> they support a huge list of languages, and it's not extremely
> difficult to add more.
>
> Mark
>
> On 19/08/05, Jeffrey McGee <jeffamcgee at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 8/19/05, Niklas Laxstr?m <niklas.laxstrom at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 19/08/05, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> > > > This function can be useful. But now whit the google toolbar for
> Firefox
> > > > you can do very easy spell checking. For IE is there also a version.
> The
> > > > need is reduced.
> > >
> > > In my understanding google toolbar supports only English. Does pspell
> > > support other languages? And there is people who don't want to install
> > > google toolbar anyway.
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Niklas Laxstr?m
> >
> >
> > Pspell (http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.pspell.php) uses the GNU Aspell
> > library and Aspell claims to support quite a few languages:
> > http://aspell.sourceforge.net/man-html/Supported.html
> >
> > I have tested my prototype a little with Spanish:
> > http://66.205.125.240/spell/index.php/User_talk:192.168.1.101
> > But you won't be able to test it since you can't change $wgLanguageCode.
> >
> > Jeff
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
> --
> SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
> QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
> POSSIT MATERIARI
> ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


body:
Steven K Levine wrote:

> What is NPOV?
>
Neutral Point of View the one rule that is above anything else. So we
cannot write a commercial for a product that is not done!

Waerth/Walter


subject: [Foundation-l] direct credit card payment processing

body:
--- Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Agreed. I pointed out this question to Mav, who is best placed to answer
> it. I hope he can give us a summary of the current paying situation, in
> terms of payment methods, and donations follow up, and chapters (german
> and french) specificities for this fundraising.

The credit card processing service exists, but I have no idea how to set it up
so that it works. If anybody has done this before, then please speak up.

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: SJ

subject: [Foundation-l] Logos and Wiktionary

body:
Logos offered their Verba Volant content as GFDL work for reuse in
Wikimedia projects (probably wikiquote, not wikipedia) and was
thinking of including a paragraph of biography about the quotee from
the relevant wikipedia article when it exists.

I would guess this is where the confusion lies.  I just saw a copy of
the August 22 V.Volant email, which mentioned cooperation w/wikipedia
and included a wp logo, and sent a clarifying response to Logos and
the board.

Thanks to Gerard for his initial writeup.  I'm away from email for 2
days (hopefully less) but will write more when I'm back in Boston.

SJ

On 8/20/05, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Verba Volant mailing list <http://www.verba-volant.net/> sent a
> mail to their subscribers today stating the service (which seems to be
> sending out multilingual quotations) was "offered thanks to the
> cooperation between Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/> and Logos
> Group <http://www.logos.it/>."
>
> To avoid any further confusion over this, there have been discussions
> between Jimmy Wales, Logos, and other interested parties (namely,
> Gerard and Sj), but any discussions have simply resulted, so far, in
> some proposed ideas about how Logos might work with Wiktionary, not
> Wikipedia as the mail suggested. Gerard has just put together a page
> about this proposal at
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logos.Wiktionary>. For background
> information, please see
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary>.
>
> Discussion about any aspects of this proposal are still very welcome
> on those meta pages, or on the Wiktionary mailing list, and the fact
> that discussions regarding the proposed project are taking place with
> external parties should not be seen as a reflection of any decision
> already having been made. Comments by the existing Wiktionary
> community, and anyone else interested, would be very valuable as we
> move towards various decisions about the project.
>
> Angela
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
++SJ


subject: [Foundation-l] Logos and Wiktionary


subject: [Wiktionary-l] Re: [Foundation-l] Logos and Wiktionary


from_name: Daniel P. B. Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
I suspect this will turn out to be much ado about nothing.

They will create a Wiki, they will write about two hundred articles
and dump in the full text of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,
Google will find them in the top twenty if you search for "Nazi
encyclopedia"--just below "Soup Nazi - encyclopedia article"--and
Google will bring them up as the 1268th-ranked if you just search for
"encyclopedia."

The eighty-three members with accounts will _immediately_ get into
time-wasting edit wars with each other. You know how it is: nobody is
as contentious as adherents of two _slightly_ different sects. I
don't know what the neo-Nazi equivalent of the filioque clause would
be, but you may be sure they will conduct religious wars about it.
(If they don't, start one: just innocently ask them whether, on their
Wiki, "billion" means a thousand millions or a million millions).

In four months they be tired of putting in actual work on it and it
will become a ghost site.

"I can call Wikis from the vasty Internet."
"And so can I, and so can any man...."

--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith at verizon.net
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Foundation-l] private-l (was Re: Information flow)

body:
Puddl Duk wrote:
>
> Well, let's start with the non-public mailing lists. I'm aware of the leagal
> one. What other non-public mailing lists are there (I think Erik mentioned
> one with ''all the smartest people'' on it). Where are these list
> documented, who are the members, and maybe, to ease some concerns and build
> trust, what were the last twently thread topics?

I assume you mean private-l. I'm not sure where Erik said that it had
all the smartest people on it, but he did mention that he was sending
his Google report to it. Anyway, it sounds like a fair request to me.

The members are:

Anthere
Angela
Brion Vibber
Domas Mituzas
Elian
Jason Richey
Jens Frank
Jeronim
Jimmy Wales
Kate
Mark Bergsma
Erik Moeller
Sannse
Tim Starling

Basically the sysadmins plus a few extras. The last 20 subject lines
are as follows, in reverse chronological order, with explanatory text
added in square brackets where necessary:

Hardware donations
Fwd: "Powered by MediaWiki" Badge Questions
mail.wikimedia.org offline; Kennisnet support issues
Google report
Servers proposal, about France site
Fwd: interview [hardware tech]
Wikimedia domain expirations
Request for alteration to mailing list archives
pascal.knams.wikimedia.org down; Kennisnet contact?
(no subject) [Wapedia]
WikiMania Hacking Days
Fwd: RE: Potential copyright violation in Wikipedia
Fwd: Access to Wikipedia dumps
Fwd: Wikipedia privacy issue
Mirror Wikipedia
Yahoo cluster and policies
Wikimedia/Bomis [cc'ed email to colocation facility]
Fwd: Re: Lifting of IP Block
Wikipedia machines [Yahoo]
Sygate warning

That takes us back about 6 weeks. As you can see, the topics are mostly
technical. In summary, the list consists of:

* Dealings with external organisations which are required by those
external organisation to be kept confidential
* Technical information which is security-sensitive
* Privacy-related issues
* The occasional miscellaneous post

The list only allows members to post, so please direct queries on these
issues to the usual mailing addresses. Sannse, Elian and the Board
handle incoming email requests using OTRS, and pass them on to private-l
if they think the issue would benefit from discussion with that audience.

-- Tim Starling


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
andyl2004 at sympatico.ca wrote:
> The neo-Nazi site "Stormfront" operated by Don Black is preparing to
> launch its own "Stormfront Wikipedia" via Mediawiki
>
> http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=223684

Damn, I knew we should have put an anti-Nazi clause in the MediaWiki
license.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
Andrew Gray stated for the record:

> So you VfD WP:NPOV. Wow. Big deal. If it got deleted, all that it'd
> mean would be that we didn't have a page defining the NPOV policy (so
> someone would have to write it again). It wouldn't magically cause
> that policy to cease being a fundamental part of the project...

We hold these Truths to be self-evident: that Wikipedia is endowed by
its creator with certain inalienable principles; that among these
principles is the Neutral Point of View....

--
  Sean Barrett     | I'm a big fan of scientific advancement,
  sean at epoptic.com | especially if nudity's involved.


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

subject: [WikiEN-l] Over-eager new admins

body:
A bit of coaching should be enough to minimize the number of mistakes
by eager new admins.
--Mgm

On 8/19/05, JAY JG <jayjg at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >From: Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com>
> >
> >I also think the bureaucrats might want to be a bit less eager to
> >promote, on highly disputed nominations.
>
> Can you provide examples of where bureaucrats have been "eager to promote"
> on "highly disputed nominations"?
>
> Jay.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Skyring

subject: [WikiEN-l] A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/20/05, adam <underthechair at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Wikipedia has no integrity" - We should use that as a tagline.

Partial integrity, to be correct.

--
Peter in Canberra


subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
I can still see it. Maybe you changed skins?

--Mgm

On 8/19/05, Ryan W. (Merovingian) <bigwiki at earthling.net> wrote:
> I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I noticed a little while ago that "the Free Encyclopedia" is now missing from the page titles (in FireFox, at least).  Any explanation?  I don't really care if it's there or not; I was just curious as to the reasoning behind the change.  Thanks in advance,
>
> Ryan
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
Wikipedia is released under the GFDL so even they can use "our" content.
It will probably stop them vandalizing as they'll be too busy with
their own wiki.
But I do agree that using the name "Stormfront Wikipedia" should not
be allowed. It shouldn't imply any connection with Wikipedia or
MediaWiki.

--Mgm

On 8/20/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Stan Shebs wrote:
> > Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
> >
> >> [...] I am thinking perhaps that the best way to go is ignore the whole
> >> thing and hope that they forget about it.
> >>
> > Unless they get a lot smarter than they've proven so far, they're
> > going to have a hard time just getting it running - 10 pages of
> > homemade wiki is easy, 600K+ articles plus 400K+ pictures (counting
> > commons, where many reside now) takes rather more system-fu.
> >
> > But keep watching stormfront.org, so you can enjoy the complaints
> > about how their MW setup difficulties are clear evidence of Brion's
> > collaboration with the international Zionist conspiracy. :-)
> >
>
> The mediawiki devs could refuse to offer them tech support when they try
> on wikitech-l and #mediawiki :)
>
> - --
> Alphax                      |   /"\
> Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
> OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
> http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFDBspt/RxM5Ph0xhMRA9HTAJ0W9LYX/eg+WHGTybhrf+K8WVCOaQCgk4Mv
> 1IpOrnsbwSHHdDGKwrft26U=
> =KDfB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Essjay -Wikipedia-

subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
(First, hello all, please be patient with me, as this is my first post to
the mailing list and I'm sure I'll do something wrong in the process.)

I have a very specific question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and
it seems that the mailing list is the best way to get a definative answer,
particularly from our Fearless Leader. Everyone knows that there have been a
couple of recent VfD's that have created havoc on the site, and have been
commented on ad nauseam. I don't want to rehash those particular examples,
rather, I want an answer to this question:

Is it appropriate for the fate of pages in the Wikipedia: (project)
namespace to be decided on VfD?

The deletion policy is vague on the issue. I understand that the recent
VfD's have involved specific issues that many would consider exeptions to
policy, but all I want to know is, is it okay for otherwise acceptible pages
in the project namespace to be VfD'd:

1) If I propose a policy in good faith, is it acceptible to disregard
standard proceedure for gaining consensus and instead list the page on VfD,
and if it survives, consider it policy, and if it fails, consider it dead?
2) If so, can established policies/guidlines be overturned by a VfD. For
example, WP:BITE.
3) Finally, if established policy is subject to VfD, is official policy, for
example, NPA and NPOV, subject to VfD, and if not, why is it any different
from other policies that have gained consesus but are deletable under #2?

My guess is, getting a definative answer on the issue is about as likely as
finding a flying pig, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. I'd really
like to see an answer in the form of: "No, VfD can't touch policy, including
proposed policy" or "yes, all pages are subject to VfD." Bonus points if the
header of that response says "From: jwales"

Thanks all for your patience,

Essjay
---------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
www.wikipedia.org

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


from_name: Dori

subject: [Wikitech-l] Site switched to MW 1.6 alpha

body:
On 8/20/05, Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
> This is a cross-post to wikipedia-l and wikitech-l.
>
> I just switched the version of MediaWiki we're running on Wikimedia
> websites to CVS HEAD. Currently it's labelled 1.6alpha, but development
> is continuous.

Hmm, what happens if there are schema changes that are later decided
to not have been very good? It seems unnecessarily risky to me, and it
might lower user confidence if they start seeing all sorts of bugs due
to using a not really fleshed out version.

Dori


from_name: Dan Grey

subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
On 20/08/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> You're right, the page title (as in <title>) no longer has "the Free
> Encyclopedia" in it...

As far as I can tell, it never had it. However I've just put it in.

Dan


from_name: Heiko Evermann

body:
Hi everyone,
> Certainly, ispell libraries are a much more appealing option because
> they support a huge list of languages, and it's not extremely
> difficult to add more.
Please make sure that it also works with GNU/aspell.

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann


from_name: Walter Vermeir

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Day 1 of the Fundraising Drive

body:
daniwo59 at aol.com schreef:
[cut]
> also plenty of small donations. While the big donations are exciting, seeing
> people give $1 or 1 euro, a small sum that they can afford,  is  also very
> moving. It means that people want to help in any way they can.

Ofcourse is every donation, small or big, always very welcome. But would
it not be good to inform the donaters that;

- If you give USD$ 1  then 34% will get lost in fees to PayPal.

08/18/05 	05:13:10 am 	EDT 	Anonymous 	USD 	1 	-0.34 	0.66 	Monthly
donation 	Don't mention my name

And suggest tho give now some more and in the further skip a fund drive?

Do you can also see the donations to the Belgian bank account? That will
be updated Monday. I curious about those figures.

Walter
--
Ook een artikeltje schrijven? WikipediaNL, de vrije GNU/FDL encyclopedie
http://www.wikipedia.be


subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
On 20/08/05, Mark Ryan <ultrablue at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, it definitely had it all along. For example, see the cached Google
> results at the following URL:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-17,GGLD:en&q=+site:en.wikipedia.org+wikipedia
>
>
> I tried to have a look on the MediaWiki pages for the correct system
> message containing this option but couldn't find it.

I see you've found it now :-).

Anyway, for the benefit of others, this is the system message page concerned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Pagetitle

but as you can see from the history, it never had "the free
encyclopedia" in it. Very odd.

Dan


from_name: Phroziac

subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
So, then anything can be VFD'd via IAR, and if it's in the wikipedia:
namespace, it can be speedy kept, via IAR. IAR is useful, eh? :)
Anyway, if you notice, it says on the vfd page it is for _articles_. I
put that in bold, maybe it will help a little, with the rediclousness.

How long will it be before people VFD a VFD on a VFD of a VFD of a wikiproject?

On 8/20/05, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we have to understand that there are no hard-and-fast rules to
> Wikipedia.  IAR applies to every policy and every guideline,
> including, confusingly, itself.
>
> Therefore, I don't think we can say "you may never VfD a page in
> project space".  Nevertheless, I think it would be almost impossible
> to create a case in which policy might be put to a deletion vote.
> Even less one where it would actually succeed!  Any posting of a
> policy or guideline that had been ratified by the community would
> struggle to be anything other than disrupting Wikipedia (possibly to
> make a point).  As such, it would be immediately eligable for a speedy
> keep, and I would have no qualms about doing such myself.
>
> As to other pages in the project namespace, I don't think we should
> forbid listing them on VfD.  Apart from anything else, they could be
> seriously detrimental to the Wikipedia community if something
> misleading were put there, when it could not be replaced by something
> legitimate.
>
> So, in all, I'd say that VfD'ing project namespace pages is not
> forbidden, and shouldn't be, so long as it isn't forbidden by an
> existing policy, such as WP:POINT.
>
> Sam/smoddy
>
> On 8/20/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > (First, hello all, please be patient with me, as this is my first post to
> > the mailing list and I'm sure I'll do something wrong in the process.)
> >
> > I have a very specific question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and
> > it seems that the mailing list is the best way to get a definative answer,
> > particularly from our Fearless Leader. Everyone knows that there have been a
> > couple of recent VfD's that have created havoc on the site, and have been
> > commented on ad nauseam. I don't want to rehash those particular examples,
> > rather, I want an answer to this question:
> >
> > Is it appropriate for the fate of pages in the Wikipedia: (project)
> > namespace to be decided on VfD?
> >
> > The deletion policy is vague on the issue. I understand that the recent
> > VfD's have involved specific issues that many would consider exeptions to
> > policy, but all I want to know is, is it okay for otherwise acceptible pages
> > in the project namespace to be VfD'd:
> >
> > 1) If I propose a policy in good faith, is it acceptible to disregard
> > standard proceedure for gaining consensus and instead list the page on VfD,
> > and if it survives, consider it policy, and if it fails, consider it dead?
> > 2) If so, can established policies/guidlines be overturned by a VfD. For
> > example, WP:BITE.
> > 3) Finally, if established policy is subject to VfD, is official policy, for
> > example, NPA and NPOV, subject to VfD, and if not, why is it any different
> > from other policies that have gained consesus but are deletable under #2?
> >
> > My guess is, getting a definative answer on the issue is about as likely as
> > finding a flying pig, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. I'd really
> > like to see an answer in the form of: "No, VfD can't touch policy, including
> > proposed policy" or "yes, all pages are subject to VfD." Bonus points if the
> > header of that response says "From: jwales"
> >
> > Thanks all for your patience,
> >
> > Essjay
> > ---------
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > www.wikipedia.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Sabine Cretella

body:
>>Certainly, ispell libraries are a much more appealing option because
>>they support a huge list of languages, and it's not extremely
>>difficult to add more.
>>
>>
>Please make sure that it also works with GNU/aspell.
>
>
>
Yes, this is very important indeed - we need it mainly for the minor
languages!!!

Also Sicilian, Neapolitan etc.

Ciao, Sabine

___________________________________
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB
http://mail.yahoo.it


from_name: Fastfission

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
I don't recall if the GFDL allows this or not, but there is a clause
in the CC licenses which allow original license holders to request
that they are specifically NOT given credit on usage of materials, for
just this type of circumstance. That is, if I wrote a book and
released it under a CC license, and a neo-Nazi group want to
redistribute parts of it as an introduction to their own CC work, I
could specifically request that my name be left off of all materials.
But I don't think the GFDL supports this, or does it?

Anyway, it was inevitable that wiki technology would be used for ill,
just like all technologies. I think the benefits in this case still
win out.

FF

On 8/19/05, Oskar Sigvardsson <oskarsigvardsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just going to write a polite email to the head honcho over there
> reminding him that they cannot use the wikipedia name for copyright
> reasons and that they have to reference wikipedia per the GFDL. Then I
> realised THEY HAVE TO REFERENCE WIKIPEDIA ON EVERY PAGE per the GFDL.
> Holy mother of crap! I don't want to read an article on how good
> JewWatch or whatever it's name is and then see on the bottom of the
> page "Original article from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". I feel
> dirty....................
>
> I realise though that if they wanted to start a fork, there is nothing
> we could do about it. However, I wonder wether sending them an email
> reminding them of these two things is a good idea, it might sound as
> if we encourage it.
>
> Anyway, if it's done someone more influential than me should perhaps
> compose it (although I wouldn't mind doing it if people wanted me to),
> but I am thinking perhaps that the best way to go is ignore the whole
> thing and hope that they forget about it.
>
> --gkhan
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
Well, they already speedied VFD once... whatever the deletion reform
may be, I hope it ends with a VFD of VFD...

FF

On 8/20/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, then anything can be VFD'd via IAR, and if it's in the wikipedia:
> namespace, it can be speedy kept, via IAR. IAR is useful, eh? :)
> Anyway, if you notice, it says on the vfd page it is for _articles_. I
> put that in bold, maybe it will help a little, with the rediclousness.
>
> How long will it be before people VFD a VFD on a VFD of a VFD of a wikiproject?
>
> On 8/20/05, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think we have to understand that there are no hard-and-fast rules to
> > Wikipedia.  IAR applies to every policy and every guideline,
> > including, confusingly, itself.
> >
> > Therefore, I don't think we can say "you may never VfD a page in
> > project space".  Nevertheless, I think it would be almost impossible
> > to create a case in which policy might be put to a deletion vote.
> > Even less one where it would actually succeed!  Any posting of a
> > policy or guideline that had been ratified by the community would
> > struggle to be anything other than disrupting Wikipedia (possibly to
> > make a point).  As such, it would be immediately eligable for a speedy
> > keep, and I would have no qualms about doing such myself.
> >
> > As to other pages in the project namespace, I don't think we should
> > forbid listing them on VfD.  Apart from anything else, they could be
> > seriously detrimental to the Wikipedia community if something
> > misleading were put there, when it could not be replaced by something
> > legitimate.
> >
> > So, in all, I'd say that VfD'ing project namespace pages is not
> > forbidden, and shouldn't be, so long as it isn't forbidden by an
> > existing policy, such as WP:POINT.
> >
> > Sam/smoddy
> >
> > On 8/20/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > (First, hello all, please be patient with me, as this is my first post to
> > > the mailing list and I'm sure I'll do something wrong in the process.)
> > >
> > > I have a very specific question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and
> > > it seems that the mailing list is the best way to get a definative answer,
> > > particularly from our Fearless Leader. Everyone knows that there have been a
> > > couple of recent VfD's that have created havoc on the site, and have been
> > > commented on ad nauseam. I don't want to rehash those particular examples,
> > > rather, I want an answer to this question:
> > >
> > > Is it appropriate for the fate of pages in the Wikipedia: (project)
> > > namespace to be decided on VfD?
> > >
> > > The deletion policy is vague on the issue. I understand that the recent
> > > VfD's have involved specific issues that many would consider exeptions to
> > > policy, but all I want to know is, is it okay for otherwise acceptible pages
> > > in the project namespace to be VfD'd:
> > >
> > > 1) If I propose a policy in good faith, is it acceptible to disregard
> > > standard proceedure for gaining consensus and instead list the page on VfD,
> > > and if it survives, consider it policy, and if it fails, consider it dead?
> > > 2) If so, can established policies/guidlines be overturned by a VfD. For
> > > example, WP:BITE.
> > > 3) Finally, if established policy is subject to VfD, is official policy, for
> > > example, NPA and NPOV, subject to VfD, and if not, why is it any different
> > > from other policies that have gained consesus but are deletable under #2?
> > >
> > > My guess is, getting a definative answer on the issue is about as likely as
> > > finding a flying pig, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. I'd really
> > > like to see an answer in the form of: "No, VfD can't touch policy, including
> > > proposed policy" or "yes, all pages are subject to VfD." Bonus points if the
> > > header of that response says "From: jwales"
> > >
> > > Thanks all for your patience,
> > >
> > > Essjay
> > > ---------
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > www.wikipedia.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
> --
> signature
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
vfd has to be archived for historical purposes.

On 8/20/05, Fastfission <fastfission at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, they already speedied VFD once... whatever the deletion reform
> may be, I hope it ends with a VFD of VFD...
>
> FF
>
> On 8/20/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So, then anything can be VFD'd via IAR, and if it's in the wikipedia:
> > namespace, it can be speedy kept, via IAR. IAR is useful, eh? :)
> > Anyway, if you notice, it says on the vfd page it is for _articles_. I
> > put that in bold, maybe it will help a little, with the rediclousness.
> >
> > How long will it be before people VFD a VFD on a VFD of a VFD of a wikiproject?
> >
> > On 8/20/05, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think we have to understand that there are no hard-and-fast rules to
> > > Wikipedia.  IAR applies to every policy and every guideline,
> > > including, confusingly, itself.
> > >
> > > Therefore, I don't think we can say "you may never VfD a page in
> > > project space".  Nevertheless, I think it would be almost impossible
> > > to create a case in which policy might be put to a deletion vote.
> > > Even less one where it would actually succeed!  Any posting of a
> > > policy or guideline that had been ratified by the community would
> > > struggle to be anything other than disrupting Wikipedia (possibly to
> > > make a point).  As such, it would be immediately eligable for a speedy
> > > keep, and I would have no qualms about doing such myself.
> > >
> > > As to other pages in the project namespace, I don't think we should
> > > forbid listing them on VfD.  Apart from anything else, they could be
> > > seriously detrimental to the Wikipedia community if something
> > > misleading were put there, when it could not be replaced by something
> > > legitimate.
> > >
> > > So, in all, I'd say that VfD'ing project namespace pages is not
> > > forbidden, and shouldn't be, so long as it isn't forbidden by an
> > > existing policy, such as WP:POINT.
> > >
> > > Sam/smoddy
> > >
> > > On 8/20/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > (First, hello all, please be patient with me, as this is my first post to
> > > > the mailing list and I'm sure I'll do something wrong in the process.)
> > > >
> > > > I have a very specific question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and
> > > > it seems that the mailing list is the best way to get a definative answer,
> > > > particularly from our Fearless Leader. Everyone knows that there have been a
> > > > couple of recent VfD's that have created havoc on the site, and have been
> > > > commented on ad nauseam. I don't want to rehash those particular examples,
> > > > rather, I want an answer to this question:
> > > >
> > > > Is it appropriate for the fate of pages in the Wikipedia: (project)
> > > > namespace to be decided on VfD?
> > > >
> > > > The deletion policy is vague on the issue. I understand that the recent
> > > > VfD's have involved specific issues that many would consider exeptions to
> > > > policy, but all I want to know is, is it okay for otherwise acceptible pages
> > > > in the project namespace to be VfD'd:
> > > >
> > > > 1) If I propose a policy in good faith, is it acceptible to disregard
> > > > standard proceedure for gaining consensus and instead list the page on VfD,
> > > > and if it survives, consider it policy, and if it fails, consider it dead?
> > > > 2) If so, can established policies/guidlines be overturned by a VfD. For
> > > > example, WP:BITE.
> > > > 3) Finally, if established policy is subject to VfD, is official policy, for
> > > > example, NPA and NPOV, subject to VfD, and if not, why is it any different
> > > > from other policies that have gained consesus but are deletable under #2?
> > > >
> > > > My guess is, getting a definative answer on the issue is about as likely as
> > > > finding a flying pig, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. I'd really
> > > > like to see an answer in the form of: "No, VfD can't touch policy, including
> > > > proposed policy" or "yes, all pages are subject to VfD." Bonus points if the
> > > > header of that response says "From: jwales"
> > > >
> > > > Thanks all for your patience,
> > > >
> > > > Essjay
> > > > ---------
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > > www.wikipedia.org
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > signature
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
On 20/08/05, Mark Ryan <ultrablue at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have restored the page title to its previous state. Dan was correct
> in that the page title mediawiki page appears to never have been
> edited. The only explanation for this change in the last couple of
> days is that someone changed the site name value, or something like
> that.

After you left #wikimedia-tech I was told that {{SITENAME}} has never
been changed from being just "Wikipedia"...

Dan


from_name: Anthere

body:
Michael Snow wrote:
> Anthere wrote:

>> * exactly on which topic do you feel you are not informed ?
>
>
> I'll mention one example for now. I've asked a few times on this list
> about the progress with direct credit card payment processing (at least
> twice, once after the last fundraiser and then following up later). I
> don't recall that there was any response. Finally, in the latest board
> meeting notes, it's mentioned that this is expected to be ready for the
> current fundraiser. But even then, when I go to the fundraising page
> right now, this option is still not there.

Agreed. I pointed out this question to Mav, who is best placed to answer
it. I hope he can give us a summary of the current paying situation, in
terms of payment methods, and donations follow up, and chapters (german
and french) specificities for this fundraising.

Cheers; Ant


from_name: Ginu Gmail

body:
Dear Mark,

For Google am doing the localization. Now am correcting their main page in
Malayalam. They told it will take some time to correct that in the main
page. And using machine translation for Malayalam will not be good, I can
show that through so many examples.

If 1 against 3 is for the right thing, I believe I have to go ahead. As a
journalist I am always putting that. If you feel the 3 is right then skip my
mails. Carry on the wrong thing in wikipedia if u like.

If u need I can make the same comment from 100's. Don?t thing bad in my
mail. I am always writing straight

Regards

Ginu George

-----Original Message-----
From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:46 AM
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Spell checking in MediaWiki

While Walter's advice about checking spelling with the Google toolbar
can be useful for some languages (I believe it works for English,
German, Spanish, French, and Swedish, maybe I missed one?), it won't
be useful for everybody else -- what is a Hindi Wikipedian or a Xhosa
Wikipedian to do for spellchecking?

Certainly, ispell libraries are a much more appealing option because
they support a huge list of languages, and it's not extremely
difficult to add more.

Mark

On 19/08/05, Jeffrey McGee <jeffamcgee at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/19/05, Niklas Laxstr?m <niklas.laxstrom at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 19/08/05, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> > > This function can be useful. But now whit the google toolbar for
Firefox
> > > you can do very easy spell checking. For IE is there also a version.
The
> > > need is reduced.
> >
> > In my understanding google toolbar supports only English. Does pspell
> > support other languages? And there is people who don't want to install
> > google toolbar anyway.
> >
> > ----
> > Niklas Laxstr?m
>
>
> Pspell (http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.pspell.php) uses the GNU Aspell
> library and Aspell claims to support quite a few languages:
> http://aspell.sourceforge.net/man-html/Supported.html
>
> I have tested my prototype a little with Spanish:
> http://66.205.125.240/spell/index.php/User_talk:192.168.1.101
> But you won't be able to test it since you can't change $wgLanguageCode.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005


from_name: SPUI

subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
Dan Grey wrote:
> On 20/08/05, Mark Ryan <ultrablue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>No, it definitely had it all along. For example, see the cached Google
>>results at the following URL:
>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-17,GGLD:en&q=+site:en.wikipedia.org+wikipedia
>>
>>
>>I tried to have a look on the MediaWiki pages for the correct system
>>message containing this option but couldn't find it.
>
>
> I see you've found it now :-).
>
> Anyway, for the benefit of others, this is the system message page concerned:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Pagetitle
>
> but as you can see from the history, it never had "the free
> encyclopedia" in it. Very odd.
>
Might http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Tagline be what you're
looking for? Though I don't see a removal there either. Maybe the page
was changed from using tagline to using pagetitle?


from_name: wmf at timshell.com

subject: [Foundation-l] Minutes from August 18 Board Meeting

body:
The minutes for the August 18 Board meeting are available online at:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/August_18%2C_2005

Comments and discussion can be posted here:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Board_meetings


from_name: Dai Grepher

subject:
[WikiEN-l] An admin misused his privilages to block me and
	vandalize an article.

body:
Hello,
 My user name is Dai Grepher, my I.P address is 68.41.169.128, I am sending this message because the administrator Andrevan has misused his abilities to block me from editing any page but my own for 24 hours. While I know that this is a temporary block, I still believe that Andrevan should be reprimanded for misuse of administrating privileges, and I believe that he will continue to misuse his powers unless he is reprimanded. The message I receive when trying to edit is as follows:

 "User is blocked
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
You have attempted to edit a page, either by clicking the "edit this page" tab or by following a red link.

Your user name or IP address has been blocked by Andrevan.

The reason given is this:
Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Dai Grepher". The reason given for Dai Grepher's block is: "Ignoring consensus, vandalizing user pages. Blocked for 24 hours, as warned."."

 On the talk page found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Metroid:_Zero_Mission
I have respectfully stated that a consensus on the issue is not applicable to the article, since I have provided a substantial amount of evidence that disproves the popular theory and those that have voted have clearly ignored the facts that I have presented. Also, this consensus does not reach beyond the limits of Wikipedia to users holding a different belief and therefore does not represent the targeted fanbase. Under Wikipedia consensus policy, a consensus cannot be used to determine which side has "won" a dispute. It can only be used to see if there is a consensus, which there is not since I disagree with it and the opposition. Andrevan is using the consensus incorrectly as justification for changing the article to reflect his own opinion and also for blocking my account.

 I have suggested that the article remain ambiguous, and not bias toward their side or my own while dispute resolution takes its course. The others debating the issue and myself have agreed to contact mediators and arbitrators to resolve the issue fairly. Andrevan makes it clear on the Zero Mission talk page listed above that he believes the popular theory and has stated orders to change the article to directly contradict me (Dai Grepher, found under the: The article should not be ambiguous, section of the article), which shows a direct prejudice against my theory and a complete disregard of the facts that I have presented that at the very least seriously question the popular theory.

 I have edited the article to be non-partisan and I have also made additions to the page, which by Wikipedia policy is not classified as a revert. Andrevan is the one who has reverted and vandalized the page by ignoring the NPOV policy. Also, Andrevan has not posted warnings of blocking my account on my talk page, as Wikipedia's policy for handling vandalism states. I however have posted these required steps on his talk page and also The Missing Link's talk page because they continue to change the article to be biased.

 The second reason, an accusation that I have vandalized other user pages is untrue. Andrevan is misusing his powers to preserve his own personal belief, rather than protecting the page to be non-biased and allowing dispute resolution to take its course. By doing so, and blocking me, he is hindering the peaceful resolution of the dispute. I respectfully request that the administrator Andrevan be given the full reprimand that he deserves.

 I urge you to please look into this matter at the talk page listed above, and handle the issue responsibly. Thank you very much.

-Dai Grepher

---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page


from_name: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

subject: [Wikitech-l] Announcing $wgExtensionCredits

body:
2005/8/17, Tels <nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com>:
> I remember that you said you would include the version somehow. Did you do
> this and how would I need to include it? Also, would you willing to test
> an extension of mine to see that I included the info in the proper way?

Yes, you're now able to do:

$wgExtensionCredits[$type][] = array(
    'name' => 'Extension foo',
    'author' => 'Foo Barstein',
    'url' => 'http://www.example.com',
    'version' => '0.1'
)

the url and version keys are optional, if you want to test if this is
working okey just go to Special:Version on your wiki to see if it
shows up.


from_name: Kovács Endre János

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re:Site switched to MW 1.6 alpha

body:
Hello,

1.6 alpha is causing major problems in the Hungarian Wikipedia. Something must have changed in the parsing of templates. We have used a "meta-template" to generate the content of Babel templates for some time; take a look at http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sablon:User_en to see what the templates look like now. (The English template should, of course, look like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:User_en).

All the best,
Endre/KovacsUr at huwiki


body:
Interesting, I didn't think you were serious when we discussed it earlier;)

Not that I'm against it, but it does have one downside which is that
HEAD can no longer be treated as a development playing ground between
releases (people can just make new branches though) and on the up side
we'll no longer have to backport stuff that needs to go live on
wikimedia sites earlier than the next stable release to what is
supposed to be a bugfix-only branch.

Good news.


from_name: Rowan Collins

body:
On 20/08/05, Kov?cs Endre J?nos <kovacsur at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1.6 alpha is causing major problems in the Hungarian Wikipedia. Something
> must have changed in the parsing of templates. [...]

This rather demonstrates to me the need for a generic "unstable"
branch, which is only used automatically on dedicated test sites -
i.e. what HEAD used to be. I know this kind of bug wouldn't
necessarily be spotted on a test server, but given a bit of a "lead
time" the coding change which brought it about might be spotted
anyway.  Having sites running live from HEAD puts rather a lot of
pressure on everyone with CVS access, because they'll be constantly
worried that something won't be quite right. But maybe that's just
me...

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Yann Forget

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Update on the French Wiktionary

body:
Hi,

The uploading of the dictionary of the French Academy (edition 1932, 33,000
articles) is against postponed due to legal reasons. We

Also some work is postponed waiting for the Ultimate Wiktionary, mainly words
which already exists in other Wiktionaries. We would like to know what is the
schedule for implementing the UW, so we can plan some of the work.

Some information about transfering from the actual Wiktionary to the UW would
be useful.

Best regards,
Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
On 20/08/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Stuff

No, VfD can't touch policy, including proposed policy.

Why? VfD is a small corner of WP which isn't a terribly nice place and
many people go nowhere near it. Therefore, it's incapable of
ascertaining whether or not a policy page has consensus amongst the
community.

I can't imagine anything in the WP: space would even need deleting.
Failed proposals get marked as such.

Dan


subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
I liked it better when it was just "Wikipedia". Oh well, atleast it
isn't "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, that anyone can edit, and
that everyone tries to add crap that nobody cares about to". I'm
pretty sure i have seen page titles LONGER then that...

On 8/20/05, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20/08/05, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > but as you can see from the history, it never had "the free
> > > encyclopedia" in it. Very odd.
>
> I note we seem to be back to "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"...
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
I think we have to understand that there are no hard-and-fast rules to
Wikipedia.  IAR applies to every policy and every guideline,
including, confusingly, itself.

Therefore, I don't think we can say "you may never VfD a page in
project space".  Nevertheless, I think it would be almost impossible
to create a case in which policy might be put to a deletion vote.
Even less one where it would actually succeed!  Any posting of a
policy or guideline that had been ratified by the community would
struggle to be anything other than disrupting Wikipedia (possibly to
make a point).  As such, it would be immediately eligable for a speedy
keep, and I would have no qualms about doing such myself.

As to other pages in the project namespace, I don't think we should
forbid listing them on VfD.  Apart from anything else, they could be
seriously detrimental to the Wikipedia community if something
misleading were put there, when it could not be replaced by something
legitimate.

So, in all, I'd say that VfD'ing project namespace pages is not
forbidden, and shouldn't be, so long as it isn't forbidden by an
existing policy, such as WP:POINT.

Sam/smoddy

On 8/20/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
> (First, hello all, please be patient with me, as this is my first post to
> the mailing list and I'm sure I'll do something wrong in the process.)
>
> I have a very specific question that I can't seem to find an answer to, and
> it seems that the mailing list is the best way to get a definative answer,
> particularly from our Fearless Leader. Everyone knows that there have been a
> couple of recent VfD's that have created havoc on the site, and have been
> commented on ad nauseam. I don't want to rehash those particular examples,
> rather, I want an answer to this question:
>
> Is it appropriate for the fate of pages in the Wikipedia: (project)
> namespace to be decided on VfD?
>
> The deletion policy is vague on the issue. I understand that the recent
> VfD's have involved specific issues that many would consider exeptions to
> policy, but all I want to know is, is it okay for otherwise acceptible pages
> in the project namespace to be VfD'd:
>
> 1) If I propose a policy in good faith, is it acceptible to disregard
> standard proceedure for gaining consensus and instead list the page on VfD,
> and if it survives, consider it policy, and if it fails, consider it dead?
> 2) If so, can established policies/guidlines be overturned by a VfD. For
> example, WP:BITE.
> 3) Finally, if established policy is subject to VfD, is official policy, for
> example, NPA and NPOV, subject to VfD, and if not, why is it any different
> from other policies that have gained consesus but are deletable under #2?
>
> My guess is, getting a definative answer on the issue is about as likely as
> finding a flying pig, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless. I'd really
> like to see an answer in the form of: "No, VfD can't touch policy, including
> proposed policy" or "yes, all pages are subject to VfD." Bonus points if the
> header of that response says "From: jwales"
>
> Thanks all for your patience,
>
> Essjay
> ---------
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> www.wikipedia.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Dori

body:
On 8/20/05, wmf at timshell.com <wmf at timshell.com> wrote:
>
> The minutes for the August 18 Board meeting are available online at:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/August_18%2C_2005

This page is empty


body:
On 8/20/05, Dori <slowpoke at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/20/05, wmf at timshell.com <wmf at timshell.com> wrote:
> >
> > The minutes for the August 18 Board meeting are available online at:
> >
> > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/August_18%2C_2005
>
> This page is empty

Nevermind, needed forced refresh


from_name: Mark Williamson

references:
<dbf395c050818183064450f3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<de5gt7$vv$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<501f5b5d0508191446742b709c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.svtmv2fhaavobm@smtp.apper.de>

body:
My only problem with Aspell is that for some reason, I can't get
non-Roman scripts to work under Win32... Other than that, I think it's
quite amazing.

Mark

On 20/08/05, Christian Thiele <APPER at apper.de> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just wanted to add that Opera supports spell checking in input boxes by
> using GNU Aspell. You just have to install Aspell plus the languages you
> need (for Windows see http://aspell.net/win32/) and restart Opera.
>
> But I have to add, that - in my opinion - aspell isn't a good spell
> checking engine and the dictionaries are very incomplete.
>
> Sincerely
> Christian Thiele
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Alphax

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Stan Shebs wrote:
> Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
>
>> [...] I am thinking perhaps that the best way to go is ignore the whole
>> thing and hope that they forget about it.
>>
> Unless they get a lot smarter than they've proven so far, they're
> going to have a hard time just getting it running - 10 pages of
> homemade wiki is easy, 600K+ articles plus 400K+ pictures (counting
> commons, where many reside now) takes rather more system-fu.
>
> But keep watching stormfront.org, so you can enjoy the complaints
> about how their MW setup difficulties are clear evidence of Brion's
> collaboration with the international Zionist conspiracy. :-)
>

The mediawiki devs could refuse to offer them tech support when they try
on wikitech-l and #mediawiki :)

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDBspt/RxM5Ph0xhMRA9HTAJ0W9LYX/eg+WHGTybhrf+K8WVCOaQCgk4Mv
1IpOrnsbwSHHdDGKwrft26U=
=KDfB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiProject Decency

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

geni wrote:
>>I must be the only person on Wikipedia who saw -Ril-'s nick, & did
>>not immediately think of Lir.
>
> not quite
>

Me neither. My first thought was somewhere completely different...

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDBssS/RxM5Ph0xhMRA8b7AJwMRMYTa5yhl8Y7G73ULm1N9dNAigCfVnC8
s4yKt9z6IUnmih6l63ipkpM=
=kNOh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
On 8/20/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> How long will it be before people VFD a VFD on a VFD of a VFD of a wikiproject?

When they do, I shall speedy delist, then block them until kingdom
come with a particularly virulent blocking summary.  VfDs should never
be deleted unless there is a really really good reason.  There could
almost never be a good reason to delete a VfD.

"So, then anything can be VFD'd via IAR, and if it's in the wikipedia:
namespace, it can be speedy kept, via IAR. IAR is useful, eh? :)
Anyway, if you notice, it says on the vfd page it is for _articles_. I
put that in bold, maybe it will help a little, with the rediclousness."

Methinks you take the IAR line a bit too far.  My point was only that
you can never say that something is absolutely forbidden.  Wikipedia
is not black and white (except in the Classic skin).  My statement
said that policies could be speedy-kept by WP:POINT, as they could
never be anything else.  Actually, your point about what it says on
the VfD page is a good one.  I suggest applying IAR and allowing
ourselves to nominate project namespace pages there.

Sam/smoddy


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] VfD vs. Wikipedia:

body:
On 20/08/05, Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20/08/05, Essjay -Wikipedia- <essjay-wiki at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Stuff
>
> No, VfD can't touch policy, including proposed policy.
>
> Why? VfD is a small corner of WP which isn't a terribly nice place and
> many people go nowhere near it. Therefore, it's incapable of
> ascertaining whether or not a policy page has consensus amongst the
> community.

More to the point - the policy does not exist "because there is a page
on it". Wikipedia is not, as I believe a guideline says somewhere, a
game of nomic; the existence of hard-and-fast policy is integral to
the system, not just something we happened to write.

So you VfD WP:NPOV. Wow. Big deal. If it got deleted, all that it'd
mean would be that we didn't have a page defining the NPOV policy (so
someone would have to write it again). It wouldn't magically cause
that policy to cease being a fundamental part of the project...

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] phase3/includes Parser.php, 1.496,
	1.497

body:
On 20/08/05, Tim Starling <timstarling at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> Modified Files:
>         Parser.php
> Log Message:
> With the introduction of action=render, internal links may also contain http://, and so must be hardened against replacement by replaceExternalLinks in the same way as interwiki links.
>
> Index: Parser.php

[...]

> +        * Hardens some text possibly containing URLs against mangling by
> +        * replaceExternalLinks()
> +        */
> +       function hardenURLs( $text ) {
> +               return str_replace( 'http://', 'http-noparse://', $text );
> +       }

Did you mean to actually use this function somewhere, or did you
change your mind and forget to remove it? I should also note that it
won't work correctly, since I changed the other use of that notation
to fix bug 3090; it now also masks things other than http://... by
using preg_replace("/\b($wgUrlProtocols)/", UNIQ_PREFIX."NOPARSE$1",
...

 In fact, even the issue you were addressing would probably want that,
since a wiki could generate URLs beginning https://

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] NPOV

body:
I have recently become aware of a matter on the very cutting edge of
NPOV, wiki-cliques, and the method by which article content is
''actually'' determined. I think the matter is very stimulating, and I
hope that it will inspire some healthy discussion and thought. I'll
give some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Amalekite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sam_Spade#Eustace_Mullins

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=225536&highlight=wikipedia

Jack (Sam Spade)


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Dumps newer than 20060623

references:
<ddfb2f$6t5$1@sea.gmane.org> <42FC0CB8.5040300@pobox.com>
	<de82cf$q6e$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Jochen Magnus wrote:
> Thank you Brian,
>
> I found the directory (but no link to it?), but I have some questions:
>
> - As far as I saw, all articles in the XML dump are from namespace 0. Am
> I right?

No, all namespaces are included.

At some point we will also produce limited dumps which include only
main, image, and template namespace (and perhaps project namespace,
since essential things like the license info tend to be there).

> - Is there a documentation about the format? I don't know the exact
> meaning of <revision> and I don't know, which <id> is the database id
> (primary key): the  "page->id" or the "page->revision->id"?

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Export has some notes.

> - will XML dumps made recurrent (steady) in the future?

Yes.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050820/006eb6df/attachment.pgp>


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> Wikipedia is released under the GFDL so even they can use "our" content.
> It will probably stop them vandalizing as they'll be too busy with
> their own wiki.
> But I do agree that using the name "Stormfront Wikipedia" should not
> be allowed. It shouldn't imply any connection with Wikipedia or
> MediaWiki.
>

Indeed, Wikipedia is GFDL so anyone can do whatever with it so long as
they continue to license it under the GFDL and provide a list of authors.

"Stormfront Wikipedia" is unnacceptable on the simple grounds of
trademark infringement. "Stormfrontpedia" would be acceptable.
"Nazipedia" might get them into trouble in whatever juridstiction their
servers are located in :)

Anyway, my point was that if they have trouble setting up Mediawiki, the
devs (or anyone else) are under no obligation to help them. That is the
beauty of the warranty disclaimer in the GPL :)

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDBtRn/RxM5Ph0xhMRA/yJAJ9Fp2sKNQfuEdxgRa9cGrIKEOW0jQCgjgC8
nDS0kY4y1yRQiwSVUZk5nzs=
=4Tao
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


subject: [WikiEN-l] Over-eager new admins

body:
lots, but i don't think that would be helpful.

Jack (Sam Spade)

> On 8/19/05, JAY JG <jayjg at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >From: Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >I also think the bureaucrats might want to be a bit less eager to
> > >promote, on highly disputed nominations.
> >
> > Can you provide examples of where bureaucrats have been "eager to promote"
> > on "highly disputed nominations"?
> >
> > Jay.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Page title change

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> I can still see it. Maybe you changed skins?
>
> --Mgm
>
> On 8/19/05, Ryan W. (Merovingian) wrote:
>
>> I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I noticed a
>> little while ago that "the Free Encyclopedia" is now missing from
>> the page titles (in FireFox, at least).  Any explanation?  I don't
>> really care if it's there or not; I was just curious as to the
>> reasoning behind the change.  Thanks in advance,
>>

You're right, the page title (as in <title>) no longer has "the Free
Encyclopedia" in it...

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDBtcq/RxM5Ph0xhMRA/FjAJ4lm8mAdjdLJzyX2oymCD1aj9LZGQCeLdFp
vZvUtobQJBy0MTTZot4N+F8=
=NmR7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----