from_name: Nick Jenkins

subject: [Wikitech-l] content_actions.php

body:
> A hooks.txt file in a recent distribution of MediaWiki refers to a
> content_actions.php file, which supposedly exposes instantiation logic of edit  tabs at
> the top of the page. I find no such file in that distribution. Am I  missing
> something, or will I need to write original code to gain control of  those
> ubiquitous tabs?

------------------------------------------------
# svn blame docs/hooks.txt | grep -i content_actions
 10411       avar $content_actions: The array of content actions
#
------------------------------------------------

So it's from r10411, i.e.: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=10411 , and we can see from that URL that
it's about 14 months old (so we probably want to confirm that it's still there), and also that $content_actions is probably an array
rather than a file (at least in the MediaWiki core).

Testing whether it's still there:
------------------------------------------------
/var/www/hosts/mediawiki/wiki# grep -inr \$content_actions includes/*
includes/SkinTemplate.php:426:          $content_actions = $this->buildContentActionUrls();
includes/SkinTemplate.php:427:          $tpl->setRef('content_actions', $content_actions);
includes/SkinTemplate.php:432:                  $tpl->set('body_ondblclick', 'document.location = "'
.$content_actions['edit']['href'] .'";');
includes/SkinTemplate.php:618:          $content_actions = array();
includes/SkinTemplate.php:628:                  $content_actions[$nskey] = $this->tabAction(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:634:                  $content_actions['talk'] = $this->tabAction(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:645:                          $content_actions['edit'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:652:                                  $content_actions['addsection'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:659:                          $content_actions['viewsource'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:670:                          $content_actions['history'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:678:                                          $content_actions['protect'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:685:                                          $content_actions['unprotect'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:693:                                  $content_actions['delete'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:701:                                  $content_actions['move'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:712:                                          $content_actions['undelete'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:725:                                  $content_actions['watch'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:731:                                  $content_actions['unwatch'] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:739:                  wfRunHooks( 'SkinTemplateTabs', array( &$this , &$content_actions ) )   ;
includes/SkinTemplate.php:743:                  $content_actions[$this->mTitle->getNamespaceKey()] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:749:                  wfRunHooks( 'SkinTemplateBuildContentActionUrlsAfterSpecialPage', array( &$this,
&$content_actions ) );
includes/SkinTemplate.php:766:                          $content_actions['varlang-' . $vcount] = array(
includes/SkinTemplate.php:775:          wfRunHooks( 'SkinTemplateContentActions', array( &$content_actions ) );
includes/SkinTemplate.php:778:          return $content_actions;
root at bling:/var/www/hosts/mediawiki/wiki#
------------------------------------------------

So that looks like a yes. And we can check whether any extensions use it with a "grep -inr \$content_actions extensions/*" (on a
directory with all the extensions from SVN), and there are indeed some extensions that seem to do stuff with the $content_actions
array (e.g. extensions/SemanticMediaWiki, extensions/CategoryTree, extensions/Tasks, extensions/Purge.php ).

There's also an "extensions/examples/Content_action.php" file, which sounds like it may be particularly interesting to you. It's
viewable via the web at:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/examples/Content_action.php?revision=12179&view=markup

Hope that helps.

All the best,
Nick.


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Chris Picone

subject: [WikiEN-l] School of Hard Knocks, or, what I learnt from my RfA

body:
I discovered the stupidness of RFA when I nominated Mac Davis. He was
rejected because (1) he made a copyvio in his second edit! OMG (2)He
doesn't go on AFD (3) He's 14 (not because he's immature, becuase he's
14. One editor said that hs deny vote was based solely on his gae,
regardless of maturity) and (4) He made it so that when you roll over
his signature, it makes a crosshair. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Mac_Davis
for details. I thought adminsip was absolutely no big deal.
On 10/21/06, ScottL <scott at mu.org> wrote:
>   Same boat here but as I spend less time on wikipedia lately its not a
> big deal.  I find that less responsibility makes things more fun in many
> cases anyway.  I am especially the same in that I don't have a lot of
> confidence in my writing, well and I can be a bit argumentative at times
> (though usually polite).
>
> SKL
>
> Oskar Sigvardsson wrote:
> > I'm fairly similar to you, I've been around for a little more than two
> > years (June 2004), I have around 2000 edits, I've proven myself to be
> > curteous, I've participated in process, I do occasional
> > vandal-fighting. Most of my wikipedia time is spent helping clueless
> > newbies do their first articles (that right there should qualify me,
> > you have to have the patience of a small planet!). I'm very familiar
> > with process (as much as anyone can, given how much process we have).
> > I don't get into arguments much, if I see one I try to defuse it. If I
> > do get into an argument, I argue curtiously and respectfully. I'm a
> > stand-up guy. I'm not a very good writer though, so I tend not to make
> > big article improvements, but I've helped out the encyclopedia in many
> > other ways. I feel like I've improved it. I see no reason why I
> > shouldn't be allowed to be an admin.
> >
> > But I would never pass an RfA. I mean, if someone would nominate me, I
> > would accept (although I don't think anyone will), but I'm pretty sure
> > that I would get shot down pretty easily because of my edit-count and
> > my less than stellar involvement with articles. But I have helped with
> > the encyclopedia, in many ways. With admin-tools, I know I could help
> > more. That doesn't seem likely though. It's bordeline mental, what RfA
> > has become.
> >
> > --Oskar
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Daniel P. B. Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources? (Daniel P. B. Smith)

body:
> From: Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:07:40 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Because normally we don't report on errors on maps. We don't say
>> "FDOT
>> turned over part of SR 2 to Nassau County in the 1980s, but some maps
>> still show it as a state road."
>
> Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
> piece of information?

I'd have said that the general principle is that normally we don't
try to adjudicate truth or resolve conflicting sources.

If there are conflicting sources and you're pretty sure one is right
_and nobody else cares,_ just put in the one that's right. If
_somebody else cares_ then, even if they're an idiot, put in both and
source them both.  Why not?


from_name: SPUI

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:07:40 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Because normally we don't report on errors on maps. We don't say "FDOT
>>turned over part of SR 2 to Nassau County in the 1980s, but some maps
>>still show it as a state road."
>
> Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
> piece of information?

How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?


list: foundation-l

from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Foundation-l] Planned change to default IP blocking behavior

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> effe iets anders wrote:
>>> As I understand it it is also possible to set the standard locally
>>> different, so why changing it globally? I think it would be best if
>>> the communities make these decisions themselves and define it in their
>>> monobook.
>> Inconsistency in behavior is not good; it makes administrative actions
>> confusing and error-prone.
>>
>>> But one way or another, I think it is very important that it is easy
>>> for another sysop to see in the log how the block was performed. Is it
>>> possible that an additional note will be added to the blocklog and the
>>> blocklist, telling what type of block was performed?
>> This is already logged, as far as I know.
>>
>
> It's not present on the blocklog, but is present on the blocklist.

Thanks for the reminder; I'll try to make sure this gets fixed.

For reference, this is logged in bugzilla; you can CC yourself to the
bug to receive a notification when a patch is posted or the fix made:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6638

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


list: wikimedia-l


body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
> I'd have said that the general principle is that normally we don't
> try to adjudicate truth or resolve conflicting sources.
>
> If there are conflicting sources and you're pretty sure one is right
> _and nobody else cares,_ just put in the one that's right. If
> _somebody else cares_ then, even if they're an idiot, put in both and
> source them both.  Why not?

We do "try to adjudicate truth or resolve conflicting sources". See the
whole 9/11 thing, where people keep trying to put in that it may have
been caused by the U.S. Government.

In this specific case, map companies get their information about
numbered routes from a number of sources, but it all comes down to a few
primary sources: road signs, the Department of Transportation, and (in
some states, but not in Florida, the legislative definitions). In this
case, there are no signs, and nothing directly from the DOT indicates
that it uses the causeway. Thus the map companies or their sources made
a mistake somewhere along the line.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
geni wrote:
> On 10/21/06, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
>>town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?
>
>
> In some cases such as where that resulted in a name change or the like.

Strawman.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>
>
>>On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:07:40 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Because normally we don't report on errors on maps. We don't say "FDOT
>>>turned over part of SR 2 to Nassau County in the 1980s, but some maps
>>>still show it as a state road."
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
>>piece of information?
>>
>
> For once I agree with you about something. :-)
>
> I suppose that in some ways this is related to NPOV issues, but where
> there is no real dispute.  This kind of innocent error tends to be
> perpetrated until they are widely pointed out, and that needs to be done
> for as long as the error keeps recurring.  In another area the term
> "brontosaurus" was deprecated 95 years after it was introduced, but we
> can't avoid the fact that this creature is still ubiquitous in
> children's literature.  Much of this is written by people with no
> understanding of paleontology.  We'll probably need to keep pointing out
> this error much longer than the one about the Nassau County roads.

So you'd like to fill up road articles with reports of maps that show
them still existing, or not existing, or going incorrectly? Talk about
"cruft"...


from_name: Earle Martin

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Comic book articles and fancruft (was: Pattern
	copyvios involving...)

body:
On 21/10/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> Jihad is normally associated with religious fanatics.

Only by the ignorant. People who have actually spent any time reading
about the subject rather than listening to the spoutings of tabloid
newspapers and Fox News pundits will be aware that jihad takes a
multitude of forms, the foremost of which is spiritual jihad within
oneself, the crusade against sin and sloth. [0] We need a crusade
against sloth. Our sloth is sloth of editing, which leads to articles
fairly groaning at the seams under the load of their excess verbiage.

> An encyclopedia that doesn't suck recognizes that different people have
> different ideas about what is important, and respects them for that.
> What could be more self-evident than that.

I disagree thoroughly. WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of
information, remember? If we respected everbody's different ideas, it
would be.

An encyclopedia that doesn't suck contains material that has been
agreed by consensus to be relevant and useful.

[1] If only there were some kind of online reference I could point to
on this. Oh, wait, there is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Greater_and_lesser_Jihad

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


list: wikitech-l

subject: [Wikitech-l] Inconsistency in import results?

body:
Felipe Ortega wrote:
[snip]
> As it should be. But when I log on in svwiki database
> in MySQL it says:
>
> mysql> select count(page_id) from page;
> +----------------+
> | count(page_id) |
> +----------------+
> |          30000 |

MySQL encountered an error during the import. Please make a note of
error output from MySQL in order to debug it.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [Wikitech-l] PHP 5.2.0RC6 Testing

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> You are receiving this email because your project has been select to
>> take part in a new effort by the PHP QA Team to make sure that your
>> project still works with PHP versions to-be-released.
>
> Does MediaWiki participate in this?

Yes; generally I run the RCs on my personal box and on leuksman.com,
where our tech team documentation wiki is hosted.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> SPUI wrote:
>
>>Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:07:40 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Because normally we don't report on errors on maps. We don't say "FDOT
>>>>turned over part of SR 2 to Nassau County in the 1980s, but some maps
>>>>still show it as a state road."
>>>
>>>Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
>>>piece of information?
>>
>>How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
>>town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?
>
>
> If it's a _widespread_ error, then people are likely to come across it
> independently. The information that it's a widespread error is quite
> useful in this situation. We have whole entire articles on urban legends
> and the like, adding a line to an article like this doesn't seem out of
> line to me.

It wouldn't be adding a line. The IP continued to change the mileage in
the infobox, the description of the route, and several other articles to
show that the bridge is part of SR 913.


from_name: Daniel R. Tobias

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On 21 Oct 2006 at 15:52, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:

> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> > Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
> > piece of information?
>
> How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
> town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?

One error in one edition of one map... probably not notable enough to
include.  A widely-repeated error that has propagated across multiple
maps by multiple publishers, and found its way mistakenly into
various reference sources as a result, might be a notable enough fact
to warrant mention.  It's a judgment call.

--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/


subject: [Wikitech-l] content_actions.php

body:
> Thanks for finding the file and finding instances of the content_actions
> array.
>
> That helps some. Point of confusion #1 for me appears to have been whether
> the referenced file was in the distribution I downloaded, or on the CVS/viewvc
> directory you cited. I had looked there as well, but it has moved from
> extensions/... to extensions/examples... , thus my confusion.
>
> I'm not up to altering things over there just yet, but for someone who  makes
> it easy, that path might best be revised in the hooks.txt file where I  found
> the reference.

Don't know the answer to Point of confusion #2, but #1 is fixed now in r17138
 http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/docs/hooks.txt?r1=17138&r2=17137&pathrev=17138 ).

Also the CVS mailing list seems to have stalled at r17109
 http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-cvs/2006-October/date.html#end ) ; we're up to at least r17138 now. Can someone maybe
give it a kick?

All the best,
Nick.


from_name: luke brandt

subject: [Foundation-l] GFDL v2 draft - GNU Wiki License

body:
on *Wed Sep 27 04:40:37 UTC 2006, **Gregory Maxwell *wrote:-
<quote>
The GFDL v2 draft contains the following:

[8b. WIKI RELICENSING

If the Work was previously published, with no Cover Texts, no Invariant
Sections, and no Acknowledgements or Dedications or Endorsements section, in
a system for massive public collaboration under version 1.2 of this License,
and if all the material in the Work was either initially developed in that
collaboration system or had been imported into it before 1 June 2006, then
you may relicense the Work under the GNU Wiki License.]

Would anyone at the Wikimedia foundation like to make a public comment about
this?</quote>

Any news on this in the intervening weeks?

luke


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Legal threats on [[Talk:OmniCode]]

body:
MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> On 10/21/06, Matthew Brown <morven at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Trademarks don't give you blanket ownership of a term.  They give you
>> protection against people using a term in a specific context, and
>> that's it - basically, the context of similar things to what you use
>> the trademark for.
>>
>
> Is the supposed trademark owner in the coding business?
>

It really doesn't matter. We're not the ones to determine such things;
that's what the courts are for. Anyone making legal threats against us
or any of our editors will be blocked indefinately.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Felipe Ortega

body:
Thanks, Brion. You're right, there's an error in the
import process.

I've repeated it with the latest dump of eswiki,
because it fails at a previous point (around page
3000). I think it's the same problem:

process output:
[...]
3,647 pages (5.754/sec), 302,000 revs (476.442/sec)
ERROR 1114 at line 7969: The table 'text' is full
3,653 pages (5.711/sec), 303,000 revs (473.708/sec)
3,666 pages (5.711/sec), 304,000 revs (473.587/sec)
3,682 pages (5.726/sec), 305,000 revs (474.344/sec)
3,691 pages (5.732/sec), 306,000 revs (475.239/sec)
3,710 pages (5.754/sec), 307,000 revs (476.113/sec)
3,721 pages (5.762/sec), 308,000 revs (476.971/sec)
[...]

We use MySQL 4.0.24_Debian-10sarge2-log.

Felipe.

 --- Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> escribi?:

> Felipe Ortega wrote:
> [snip]
> > As it should be. But when I log on in svwiki
> database
> > in MySQL it says:
> >
> > mysql> select count(page_id) from page;
> > +----------------+
> > | count(page_id) |
> > +----------------+
> > |          30000 |
>
> MySQL encountered an error during the import. Please
> make a note of
> error output from MySQL in order to debug it.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

______________________________________________
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto.
http://es.voice.yahoo.com


from_name: geni

subject:
[Foundation-l] Good example;
	The works of Charles Darwin freed :)

body:
On 10/21/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> Thanks.  I wonder how much of it is enforceable.  Of course it only
> relates to film and videos.  It does not appear to cover text or still
> photographs.
>

The lisence for those is pretty much identical I just can'r find it on the web.

> For specific observations: the Museum copyrights in 3.1 would not
> operate to restore copyrights that had already expired.

Under UK law that may not be the case

>  Section 3.6
> assigning one's own copyrights to the IWM seems to be way over the top.
>

Considering how much you have to pay to get your hands on the material yes.

--
geni


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

references:
<mailman.2151.1161316858.6254.wikien-l@Wikipedia.org>	<B94CCBA1-454B-405B-AA29-3849CC20A542@dpbsmith.com>	<453A37BC.8050701@gmail.com>	<s0pkj21mc8llmrfb6ub5no4n4r9i88mmgg@4ax.com>	<453A7B45.4070309@telus.net>
	<453A7EEF.8090505@gmail.com>
	<kg9lj25dogmari6a0eh5c6ema2ggmak89m@4ax.com>

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:11:27 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>So you'd like to fill up road articles with reports of maps that show
>>them still existing, or not existing, or going incorrectly?
>
>
> Sure, it's very useful to know when a map is wrong, don't you think?

Yes, and the description given in the article will disagree with the
map. You don't need to actually say "maps that show otherwise are wrong".

However, none of this deals with the actual problem: the IP kept
reverting to say that SR 913 uses the causeway. I think he even reverted
when I said that it doesn't but some maps say it does.


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:07:40 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:

>Because normally we don't report on errors on maps. We don't say "FDOT
>turned over part of SR 2 to Nassau County in the 1980s, but some maps
>still show it as a state road."

Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
piece of information?

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


body:
Felipe Ortega wrote:
> Thanks, Brion. You're right, there's an error in the
> import process.
>
> I've repeated it with the latest dump of eswiki,
> because it fails at a previous point (around page
> 3000). I think it's the same problem:
>
> process output:
> [...]
> 3,647 pages (5.754/sec), 302,000 revs (476.442/sec)
> ERROR 1114 at line 7969: The table 'text' is full

Couple of thigns to check:
1) Is the file butting against a file size limit? If you're using MyISAM
tables sometimes there's a 2-gig or 4-gig or something limit on file sizes.

This may be adjustable in the MySQL configuration; check dev.mysql.com
for details (I don't know the var name offhand).

If using InnoDB tables, check if the transaction log is backed up or
something. (Probably not very likely on a server that's not being used
for other things.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Daniel P. B. Smith stated for the record:

> SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?

Attention.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | The other side to the Wikipedia that nobody really
 sean at epoptic.com | likes to talk about... is that a large portion of
                  | the content is fairly pornographic, and actually
                  | quite lewd. --Encyclopedia Britannica spokesman
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rHjKusZxepNzCm6/lRTa9Jg=
=o2gD
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list: commons-l

from_name: Oldak Quill

subject: [Commons-l] www.wikitheque.fr (.org, .com)

body:
Surely this kind of portal could be useful in many different languages? I
don't suppose one, single multilingual portal would be useful.

Would it not be better to get it approved/officialised by Wikimedia
Foundation for hosting on servers?

If other languages decide to create similar portals why not use third-level
domains: fr.wikitheque.org, en.wikitheque.org, &c.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)
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body:
Thanks again, Brion. You hit the nail.

I'll explain it briefly (perhaps would be a good idea
to update mwdumper wiki page, or the data-dump page
with this hint, to help other people):

When the error raises, table text status is this:

mysql> show table status like 'text' \G
*************************** 1. row
***************************
           Name: text
           Type: MyISAM
     Row_format: Dynamic
           Rows: 727224
 Avg_row_length: 5905
    Data_length: 4294928748
Max_data_length: 4294967295
   Index_length: 6968320
      Data_free: 0
 Auto_increment: 2777159
    Create_time: 2006-10-21 19:16:28
    Update_time: 2006-10-21 19:37:22
     Check_time: NULL
 Create_options:

dev.mysql.com says this about the 'full table error':

"You are using a MyISAM table and the space required
for the table exceeds what is allowed by the internal
pointer size. If you don't specify the MAX_ROWS table
option when you create a table, MySQL uses the
myisam_data_pointer_size system variable. From MySQL
5.0.6 on, the default value is 6 bytes, which is
enough to allow 256TB of data. Before MySQL 5.0.6, the
default value is 4 bytes, which is enough to allow
only 4GB of data."

So it is in our case. Moreover, we find this about
that variable:

"myisam_data_pointer_size

The default pointer size in bytes, to be used by
CREATE TABLE for MyISAM tables when no MAX_ROWS option
is specified. This variable cannot be less than 2 or
larger than 7. The default value is 6 (4 before MySQL
5.0.6). This variable was added in MySQL 4.1.2"

We are using MySQL 4.02, so no magic is available.

Here you can learn how to fix it:

http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000796.html

Using an ALTER TABLE:

alter table text max_rows = 200000000000
avg_row_length = 50;

Felipe.

 --- Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> escribi?:

> Felipe Ortega wrote:
> > Thanks, Brion. You're right, there's an error in
> the
> > import process.
> >
> > I've repeated it with the latest dump of eswiki,
> > because it fails at a previous point (around page
> > 3000). I think it's the same problem:
> >
> > process output:
> > [...]
> > 3,647 pages (5.754/sec), 302,000 revs
> (476.442/sec)
> > ERROR 1114 at line 7969: The table 'text' is full
>
> Couple of thigns to check:
> 1) Is the file butting against a file size limit? If
> you're using MyISAM
> tables sometimes there's a 2-gig or 4-gig or
> something limit on file sizes.
>
> This may be adjustable in the MySQL configuration;
> check dev.mysql.com
> for details (I don't know the var name offhand).
>
>
> If using InnoDB tables, check if the transaction log
> is backed up or
> something. (Probably not very likely on a server
> that's not being used
> for other things.)
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

______________________________________________
LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
Llamadas a fijos y m?viles desde 1 c?ntimo por minuto.
http://es.voice.yahoo.com


from_name: Bryan Derksen

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
SPUI wrote:
> Bryan Derksen wrote:
>> If it's a _widespread_ error, then people are likely to come across it
>> independently. The information that it's a widespread error is quite
>> useful in this situation. We have whole entire articles on urban legends
>> and the like, adding a line to an article like this doesn't seem out of
>> line to me.
>
> It wouldn't be adding a line. The IP continued to change the mileage in
> the infobox, the description of the route, and several other articles to
> show that the bridge is part of SR 913.

The inclusive version wouldn't necessarily have to be an exact hybrid of
the two versions you're fighting over. The information on the widespread
error could be in a footnote that all of the "disputed"  facts get
labelled with, in which case it would be a single line or so of text
which gets linked to from multiple places within the article.

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
SPUI wrote:
> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:11:27 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So you'd like to fill up road articles with reports of maps that show
>>> them still existing, or not existing, or going incorrectly?
>>
>> Sure, it's very useful to know when a map is wrong, don't you think?
>
> Yes, and the description given in the article will disagree with the
> map. You don't need to actually say "maps that show otherwise are wrong".

But it's not unreasonable to say "these specific popular and
widely-known maps show otherwise, but they are in error."

> However, none of this deals with the actual problem: the IP kept
> reverting to say that SR 913 uses the causeway. I think he even reverted
> when I said that it doesn't but some maps say it does.

Do you know if this non-logged-in user even knows that such a thing as
"edit summaries" exist, and can be viewed with that "history" link he
might never have clicked on before?

If you put it right in the article, either inline or as a footnote, then
that guarantees that not only will the current guy you're disputing see
it but also all future editors who stumble across it and would otherwise
think "hey, that's not what my map says. Stupid Wikipedia!"

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> Do you know if this non-logged-in user even knows that such a thing as
> "edit summaries" exist, and can be viewed with that "history" link he
> might never have clicked on before?

Never mind, I just checked the talk page and the unregistered editor
looks like he's fully aware of the situation.

My suggestion for footnoting still stands, though, since it still
handles future editors as well.

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
SPUI wrote:
> Bryan Derksen wrote:
>> The inclusive version wouldn't necessarily have to be an exact hybrid of
>> the two versions you're fighting over. The information on the widespread
>> error could be in a footnote that all of the "disputed"  facts get
>> labelled with, in which case it would be a single line or so of text
>> which gets linked to from multiple places within the article.
>
> I think that's one of the things I tried, and guess what... the IP
> reverted me.

It sounds like the unregistered editor is being silly, then. But we're
now getting into specific details of the argument itself, which I'm not
at all familiar with. I've just been giving general principles so far.
Perhaps take it to RfC at this point, if you're completely at loggerheads?

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On 10/21/06, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
> town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?

In some cases such as where that resulted in a name change or the like.
--
geni


body:
On 21/10/06, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The problem is... well, let's pull up a solid midlist Marvel
> character - Speedball. 1603 word article. Only 500 words of that
> pertain to the real world instead of the fictional world of the
> comics. That's the problem.

Surely one would expect that an article on a fictional character would
feature far more information on the character itself (within the fictional
world) than on real world things (character development, &c.)? I haven't
looked at the article, but I would say that a 2:1 ratio is pretty damn good.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

SPUI stated for the record:

> Sean Barrett wrote:
>
>>Daniel P. B. Smith stated for the record:
>>
>>>SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?
>>
>>Attention.
>
> Shut the fuck up.

Ooo.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | The other side to the Wikipedia that nobody really
 sean at epoptic.com | likes to talk about... is that a large portion of
                  | the content is fairly pornographic, and actually
                  | quite lewd. --Encyclopedia Britannica spokesman
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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subject: [Wikitech-l] Feature request: "single block"

body:
On 20/10/06, Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Given the competence of the average admin on enwiki, I think this is a
> phenomenally bad idea.  Giving select admins the authority to impose
> all-project blocks for IP addresses or even named users is probably
> something that is needed, but this is a very powerful privilege and
> should be extended on a very limited basis with input from multiple
> projects.  Passing a beauty contest on enwiki should not give one the
> power to block people on commons, dewikt, or frwikisource.

Thinking about it it probably is a bad idea although there are still other
options to explore: pan-Wikimedia blockers drawn from the Wikimedia admin
population based on history and whatnot.

I would support the Foundation providing an open proxy listing service
> to which individual projects could subscribe to or not depending on
> their particular circumstances.  Most projects would subscribe,
> perhaps with certain exclusions; some, like zhwiki, would probably not
> subscribe.  It would be a project-by-project decision whether or not
> to subscribe.  A DNSBL is the obvious way to do this.  Selecting
> people to maintain this list should be done on a multiproject basis,
> similar to how stewards or meta admins are elected, or alternatively
> selected directly by the Foundation.

I think there should also be better communication between projects about
vandals. At the moment there is not much warning that a particular
IP/username has raised problems on other projects. With single login it will
be easier to vandalise from project-to-project. Some kind of meta
communication would help tackle these kinds of vandals far more quickly and
effectively.

On 21/10/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would a "two strikes and you're out" policy (get blocked on two of the
> sites, get blocked on them all) help?
>

Two strikes would probably be too few. Admins on one project (say
en.wikipedia) are often admins on another (commons). Problem admins having a
issues with a user they are more likely to track them down on the other
project and block them (particularly if they know that doing so will block
the user across Wikimedia). Taking into account who has blocked the user on
each project would help.

On 21/10/06, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Surely this applies to all Wikimedia projects equally, not just the
> Chinese Wikipedia.
>

Of course people should be able to edit from open proxies for this reason
(ie. just block anon editing).

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] Comic book articles and fancruft

body:
On 21/10/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> I suppose that a crusade is just as socially acceptable among Muslims as
> a jihad is among Christians.

I can only conclude that you are trolling me, and consequently I shall
skip your next few paragraphs.

> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Greater_and_lesser_Jihad
> >
> Excellent! It establishes that you were preaching the lesser jihad
> whereby thes comic book articles would be conquered by the sword,
> instead of having people examine their own motivations for expanding
> these articles.

No, I was espousing the greater application of discipline by editors
as part of Wikipedia's collective mind. "Whereby these comic book
articles would be conquered by the sword" is an absurd straw man.
What, and then they would be converted to, say, articles about
Hemingway? No, don't even bother answering that question.

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


body:
On 21/10/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/06, Earle Martin <wikipedia at downlode.org> wrote:
> >1) ZOMG how dare you not answer the questions??!!1!!1
>
> As an admin you need to be able to provide a reason to do anything. A
> unwillingness to communicate is a bad sign

I was not being asked for a reason to do anything. I was being asked
for a reason for being able to do anything, which is quite different.
I made it clear in my nomination that I wished to be judged on the
strength of my earlier contributions. And in those earlier
contributions, I made quite sure to give reasons. (Mathbot's tool
says: "Edit summary usage for Earle_Martin: 100% for major edits and
96% for minor edits. Based on the last 150 major and 131 minor edits
in the article namespace.")

> > 2) One has to have "a specific reason" for wanting admin tools. Being
> > generally concerned for the good of the project is not enough to
> > satisfy the razor minds of the RfA voters.
>
> Sure we have no shortage of paper admins (you know that 100 admin
> actions per month will put you in the top 3rd of active admins?)

Is that somehow harmful to the project? And why would I want to be in
any particular percentile of activity? This is a reference project,
not a game where you have to rack up a score. (See: editcountitis.)

> There are gnoming activities where it is trivial to rack up thousands of edits.

Perhaps, if you (a) have many, many hours to spend on editing
Wikipedia (I don't, being both employed and having a family to look
after) or (b) you use AutoWikiBrowser. I don't, because strangely
enough to use AWB you have to qualify by having a large number of
edits.

> > 6) Life as an admin is a hellish, Kafka-esque nightmare of continuous
> > inquisition from a swollen, all-powerful bureaucracy. ("[W]hat you
> > experience here is only a taste of what one will face as an admin",
> > comments "Physicq210".)
>
> Sure if you want to be at all active.

Care to explain?

> > 7) It is somehow useful for people to cast a "neutral vote", rather
> > than just leaving a comment, which is of equivalent logical value.
>
> that isn't quite the case.

Care to explain?

> > 9) Even stating "I promise not to go batshit" and signing it with your
> > real name is not enough to sway the high muck-a-mucks. Consider taking
> > classes in advanced boot-licking before responding to comments.
> > ("[C]andidate is... plainly in that class of admin who would
> > immediately set out causing grief and bloodshed.", declares "Splash".)
>
> Yeah they remeber cyde's promises as well.

Sorry, but making oblique references to events I did not witness
involving a person I've never spoken to is a remarkably useless way to
answer a point.

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
> On 20/10/06, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:State_Road_913_%28Florida%
>> 29#A_bulletproof_argument...
>> Am I right or is the IP right? Do commercially-produced maps that
>> show
>> an unsigned designation continuing along a causeway trump
>> Department of
>> Transportation sources?

SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?

A final and binding judgement that you're right, from all the road
experts on this mailing list?

A formal recognition that you are to be regarded as the authority on
the subject of roads, and granted control over the content of all
road-related articles in Wikipedia?


body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> effe iets anders wrote:
>> As I understand it it is also possible to set the standard locally
>> different, so why changing it globally? I think it would be best if
>> the communities make these decisions themselves and define it in their
>> monobook.
>
> Inconsistency in behavior is not good; it makes administrative actions
> confusing and error-prone.
>
>> But one way or another, I think it is very important that it is easy
>> for another sysop to see in the log how the block was performed. Is it
>> possible that an additional note will be added to the blocklog and the
>> blocklist, telling what type of block was performed?
>
> This is already logged, as far as I know.
>

It's not present on the blocklog, but is present on the blocklist.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> effe iets anders wrote:
>> As I understand it it is also possible to set the standard locally
>> different, so why changing it globally? I think it would be best if
>> the communities make these decisions themselves and define it in their
>> monobook.
>
> Inconsistency in behavior is not good; it makes administrative actions
> confusing and error-prone.
>
>> But one way or another, I think it is very important that it is easy
>> for another sysop to see in the log how the block was performed. Is it
>> possible that an additional note will be added to the blocklog and the
>> blocklist, telling what type of block was performed?
>
> This is already logged, as far as I know.
>

It's not present on the blocklog, but is present on the blocklist.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> effe iets anders wrote:
>> As I understand it it is also possible to set the standard locally
>> different, so why changing it globally? I think it would be best if
>> the communities make these decisions themselves and define it in their
>> monobook.
>
> Inconsistency in behavior is not good; it makes administrative actions
> confusing and error-prone.
>
>> But one way or another, I think it is very important that it is easy
>> for another sysop to see in the log how the block was performed. Is it
>> possible that an additional note will be added to the blocklog and the
>> blocklist, telling what type of block was performed?
>
> This is already logged, as far as I know.
>

It's not present on the blocklog, but is present on the blocklist.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> effe iets anders wrote:
>> As I understand it it is also possible to set the standard locally
>> different, so why changing it globally? I think it would be best if
>> the communities make these decisions themselves and define it in their
>> monobook.
>
> Inconsistency in behavior is not good; it makes administrative actions
> confusing and error-prone.
>
>> But one way or another, I think it is very important that it is easy
>> for another sysop to see in the log how the block was performed. Is it
>> possible that an additional note will be added to the blocklog and the
>> blocklist, telling what type of block was performed?
>
> This is already logged, as far as I know.
>

It's not present on the blocklog, but is present on the blocklist.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
>>On 20/10/06, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:State_Road_913_%28Florida%
>>>29#A_bulletproof_argument...
>>>Am I right or is the IP right? Do commercially-produced maps that
>>>show
>>>an unsigned designation continuing along a causeway trump
>>>Department of
>>>Transportation sources?
>
>
> SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?
>
> A final and binding judgement that you're right, from all the road
> experts on this mailing list?
>
> A formal recognition that you are to be regarded as the authority on
> the subject of roads, and granted control over the content of all
> road-related articles in Wikipedia?

I'm seeking advice, and I'm getting confirmation that there are too many
dicks on Wikipedia. Thanks.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> SPUI wrote:
>
>>Bryan Derksen wrote:
>>
>>>If it's a _widespread_ error, then people are likely to come across it
>>>independently. The information that it's a widespread error is quite
>>>useful in this situation. We have whole entire articles on urban legends
>>>and the like, adding a line to an article like this doesn't seem out of
>>>line to me.
>>
>>It wouldn't be adding a line. The IP continued to change the mileage in
>>the infobox, the description of the route, and several other articles to
>>show that the bridge is part of SR 913.
>
>
> The inclusive version wouldn't necessarily have to be an exact hybrid of
> the two versions you're fighting over. The information on the widespread
> error could be in a footnote that all of the "disputed"  facts get
> labelled with, in which case it would be a single line or so of text
> which gets linked to from multiple places within the article.

I think that's one of the things I tried, and guess what... the IP
reverted me.


body:
On 10/21/06, Earle Martin <wikipedia at downlode.org> wrote:
> I was not being asked for a reason to do anything. I was being asked
> for a reason for being able to do anything, which is quite different.
> I made it clear in my nomination that I wished to be judged on the
> strength of my earlier contributions. And in those earlier
> contributions, I made quite sure to give reasons. (Mathbot's tool
> says: "Edit summary usage for Earle_Martin: 100% for major edits and
> 96% for minor edits. Based on the last 150 major and 131 minor edits
> in the article namespace.")
>

As an admin you don't get to chose which questions people expect you
to answer (which can range from "why did you delete my image??????" to
"which guideline says we should not have article specific
disclaimers?" to "have you stopped blocking people against policy?").

(incidentally "because I wanted to destroy something beautiful" "who
cares?" and "I've just blocked you. Draw your own conclusions" are not
good answers.)

> Is that somehow harmful to the project?

yes because it means that we have 500 people who can cause rather a
lot of chaos who are not really part of the admin community.

>And why would I want to be in
> any particular percentile of activity? This is a reference project,
> not a game where you have to rack up a score. (See: editcountitis.)
>

Admins are meant to be cleaners. Standards of what makes a good admin
will differ from what makes a good editor.

> Perhaps, if you (a) have many, many hours to spend on editing
> Wikipedia (I don't, being both employed and having a family to look
> after) or (b) you use AutoWikiBrowser. I don't, because strangely
> enough to use AWB you have to qualify by having a large number of
> edits.
>

No I just know exactly in which areas it is possible to rack up edits
at a rate of greater than one a minute (stub sorting, orphaning images
on CSD, cating uncat articles and wikifying are the first lot that
come to mind).

> Care to explain?

Politics gets complicated. It gets really complicated when the players
are wikipedians and the rules are fluid and change from minute to
minute. You can dodge the politics but that takes a fair bit of
knowledge of what is going on.

> Care to explain?

Comments are aimed at other editors. Neutral votes are aimed at bureaucrats.

> Sorry, but making oblique references to events I did not witness
> involving a person I've never spoken to is a remarkably useless way to
> answer a point.

It is however an excellent demonstration. Unless you know about the
events behind that comment people will appear to be acting
irrationally where in fact they are not doing so. The "I promise not
to go batshit" is meaningless unless you know what people consider to
be going ah "batshit".

--
geni


body:
Agreed. Also, I think it is just a matter of time before Joe Random User
gets really annoyed about this, and reports us to a spam blacklist.

Titoxd.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tels [mailto:nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:25 AM
To: Wikimedia developers
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Password reminder from Wikipedia spam

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Moin,

On Saturday 21 October 2006 14:36, Timwi wrote:
> Sherool wrote:
> > At least one vandal seems to have spesialised in spamming people with
> > passwod reminders (he must have a bot), and growing number of people
> > have been complaining about it.
>
> ... You *do* realise, though, that he does it primarily *because* people
> get upset about it?
>
> > Sure they are easy to filter out, but we can't let spammers have free
> > reign like this.
>
> If you'd filter them out and not make a peep about it, he'd lose
> interest quickly.

This dos not work, the emails are still generated, people are still upset
etc.

By your line of reasoning vandals would go away if everyone would just
ignore them.

There really is now reason to allow more then X password reminders being
sent per day. Likewise, blocked IPs shouldn't be able to do this at all.

Best wishes,

Tels

- --
 Signed on Sat Oct 21 15:23:32 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "Man, I'm hot." - "Thirsty?" - "No, I mean good looking."

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from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Commons-l] Dream a little...

body:
2006/10/15, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>:

> I would like to gather from the community some examples of works you
> would like to see made free, works that we are not doing a good job of
> generating free replacements for, works that could in theory be
> purchased and freed.
>
> Dream big.  Imagine there existed a budget of $100 million to purchase
> copyrights to be made available under a free license.  What would you
> like to see purchased and released under a free license?
>
> Photos libraries? textbooks? newspaper archives? Be bold, be specific,
> be general, brainstorm, have fun with it.
>

That's three times yes, although I would like to extend 'textbooks' to
'non-fiction' more general. Also I think the ideas mentioned are good in the
sense that from there speaks an (in my opinion correct) idea that even with
a few million dollars, it would be good to make savings through going after
commercially less or not viable material. This would be a situation where
quantity beats quality.

However, at least as important as getting the material would be to have it
1. available, and 2. identifyable.

What I mean is that it is little worth to have large numbers of whatever
material if it is hard for people to come by the material. Best would be to
have it available on the web, and I think the money would be well spent that
was spent on scanning the material that has been liberated, so that it can
actually be accessed from all over the world.

The second is of different importance for different resources - for a book,
if we know title and author, people can just check for themselves whether it
is usable. But a photo collection is worth little if there is no information
added on *what* is actually on the photograph. Having photographs of
thousands of moderately famous people is worth little unless it actually
says WHO is on the photo. Likewise, photographs of past news events would be
very good to have, but only if descriptions are provided as to what news
event is depicted. 100 pictures of "some politician talking to a group of
people" are not as good as one of "Imre Nagy announcing Hungary's withdrawal
from the Warsaw Pact".

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels
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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:52:55 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Why not, if it's verifiable?  Surely that is an interesting and useful
>> piece of information?

>How is it interesting that maps make mistakes? In an article about a
>town, would we say that a map once spelled it incorrectly?

You have the map, you discover that the Gubmint say something else.
You look at Wikipedia: you get the answer that it is the map which is
wrong.  Presto!  Wikipedia has fulfilled its purpose, or at least a
small part of it for one person on one day.  No?

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:11:27 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:

>So you'd like to fill up road articles with reports of maps that show
>them still existing, or not existing, or going incorrectly?

Sure, it's very useful to know when a map is wrong, don't you think?

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
>
> Do you know if this non-logged-in user even knows that such a thing as
> "edit summaries" exist, and can be viewed with that "history" link he
> might never have clicked on before?
>
> If you put it right in the article, either inline or as a footnote, then
> that guarantees that not only will the current guy you're disputing see
> it but also all future editors who stumble across it and would otherwise
> think "hey, that's not what my map says. Stupid Wikipedia!"

Yes, he's rather well aware of how Wikipedia works.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Sean Barrett wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Daniel P. B. Smith stated for the record:
>
>
>>SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?
>
> Attention.

Shut the fuck up.


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikitech-l] PHP 5.2.0RC6 Testing

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Ilia Alshanetsky wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> You are receiving this email because your project has been select to
>> take part in a new effort by the PHP QA Team to make sure that your
>> project still works with PHP versions to-be-released.
>
> Does MediaWiki participate in this?

I've done some testing this time around, for the first time. I submitted a
bug report and a patch, nothing specific to 5.2 though.

-- Tim Starling


subject:
[WikiEN-l] Comic book articles and fancruft (was:
 Pattern	copyvios involving...)

body:
Phil Sandifer wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2006, at 10:38 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>> I'll save you the problem of embarassing yourself with an elaboration.
>> An encyclopedia that doesn't suck recognizes that different people
>> have
>> different ideas about what is important, and respects them for that.
>> What could be more self-evident than that.
>
> It may be that my point has gotten lost amongst the rhetoric here.
> Personally, I'd vote to keep any article on a costumed character in
> Marvel or DC with appearances in multiple issues. The problems are
> not in terms of what is important.
>
> The problem is... well, let's pull up a solid midlist Marvel
> character - Speedball. 1603 word article. Only 500 words of that
> pertain to the real world instead of the fictional world of the
> comics. That's the problem. Fancruft is in many ways a poor choice of
> terms for this. Especially since it's not even necessarily the case
> that the information itself is the problem. The problem is that
> virtually the entire article was written so as to pertain to the
> Marvel Universe, with occasional citations of issue number.
>
> It's not a problem unique to any area, either. I'll wager that any
> fictional text that has spawned articles about its individual
> characters has at least one article like this. (Oddly, the exception
> to this seems to be Pokemon, where all of the articles I've glanced
> at [Admittedly just a sample] take an out-of-universe perspective.)
>

And Doctor Who. Don't ever forget that our Doctor Who articles are
amongst the best for their real-world perspective, eg. [[Dalek]].

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: mingwangx

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 21 October, 2006

body:
Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin

21 October, 2006

Published by the Wikimania 2007 Taipei
Team<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Team&action=edit>,
*Team Bulletin* provides the latest news of the Team's organizing work to
everyone who is interested in Wikimania; it also gives the Team chances to
announce calls for help/participation, so assistance in human and other
resources can be sought in a wider range. *Team Bulletin* is published at
the official website of Wikimania 2007 and released to the public domain.
Everyone is welcome to reproduce and distribute it to their websites,
mailing lists, BBS, blogs, and so on, but please kindly include the
Bulletin's original link at the official website of Wikimania
2007<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/>in your distribution.

In the weekly meeting of the Taipei Team on October 19th, team members
reported their work and discussed the following matters:

   - The sponsorship division expresses gratitude to Chunghwa
Telecom<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chunghwa_Telecom&action=edit>for
their generous sponsorship.
   - The website division reports that Wikimedia Foundation has set up
   the official website for Wikimania 2007. The division will implement the web
   pages, infrastructure as soon as possible.
   - The scholarship<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scholarships&action=edit>committee
is being planned. This committee will work with the Team and the
   Foundation in handling scholarships for attendees from outside of Taiwan.
   - Frances is named the local press contact and is in charge of media
   request, public relations, and advertisements.
   - Tzu-Chiang<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:TzuChiang_Liou>is
the Team's
   program<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Program&action=edit>coordinator
and is in charge of program and topics.
   - The team is looking for contact persons from each school for the "Campus
   promotion tour and volunteer
training<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Campus_promotion_tour_and_volunteer_training&action=edit>"
   activity. The team asks any student associations, computer centers, clubs,
   and libraries in Taiwan that are interested to contact the team.
   - The team is looking for more
translators<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Translation&action=edit>and
a site manager for the conference
   venue<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Venue&action=edit>
   .

If you have any questions or suggestions, please kindly leave them at
http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Team_Bulletin/20061021


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
Chris Picone wrote:

>I discovered the stupidness of RFA when I nominated Mac Davis. He was
>rejected because (1) he made a copyvio in his second edit! OMG (2)He
>doesn't go on AFD (3) He's 14 (not because he's immature, becuase he's
>14. One editor said that hs deny vote was based solely on his gae,
>regardless of maturity) and (4) He made it so that when you roll over
>his signature, it makes a crosshair. See
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Mac_Davis
>for details. I thought adminsip was absolutely no big deal.
>
It's getting worse!  That last bit reminds me of that crowd that used to
say that if you played Beatles songs backwards you would get a message
from the devil.

I hardly recognize any names among those who voted.

I find some of the age discrimination comments highly objectionable.  I
see them on a par with sexism or racism; bold action may be required to
bring these guys under control.

The AfD question shouldn't be allowed at all; it seems directed toward
insuring a gang of admins who will think in the one way which they
consider politically correct.

Those there who put so much emphasis on vandal fighting seem to forget
that the aim of Wikipedia is to write an encyclopedia.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> SPUI wrote:
>
>>Sean Barrett wrote:
>>
>>>Daniel P. B. Smith stated for the record:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?
>>>
>>>Attention.
>>
>>Shut the fuck up.
>>
>
>
> Continue like that and you'll be placed on moderation. Keep in mind that
> if you are, your posts will take an arbitrary length of time before they
> are reviewed.

You know, it's expected that I respond like that. If I don't, people
start doing that shit anyway, because they know I will. So you eat shit too.


from_name: Matthew Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On 10/21/06, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
> How is it interesting that maps make mistakes?

It's helpful, especially if other sources disagree with the Wikipedia
article, to point out that other sources are known incorrect.

Otherwise we'll get the same wrong info inserted again and again, for one thing.

-Matt


references:
<OHEOKBPIOKBGALOCIOHIAEIOFBAA.bastique@bellsouth.net>
	<453A1BD6.3000604@free.fr>
	<54f6f2050610211211n37d6066eted1d80d6c6dee0fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<d20d84ea0610212119j13632e67t71b2f9fa39ca694e@mail.gmail.com>

body:
On 22/10/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> wikitheque like discotheque?
>
> presumably wikitheque has some kind of meaning in French. I can't
> think of any obvious meaning in English, so I would hesitate to put a
> portal there...
>
> Anyway, go WM France, good idea. Would be even better if we had some
> way to evaluate its effectiveness, but hey, gotta start somewhere.
>
> Brianna
> user:pfctdayelise
>
Should all Wikimedia sites have English names for the sake of consistency
despite any perception of (this may be a bit dramatic) imperialism? Or
should we embrace our multilingualism?

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)
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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:41:48 -0400, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm seeking advice, and I'm getting confirmation that there are too many
>dicks on Wikipedia. Thanks.

I guess you appreciate the inherent irony in that remark.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Florian Straub

body:
"David Monniaux" <David.Monniaux at free.fr> wrote on  Friday, October 20, 2006
7:55 PM

> peter green wrote:
>
>>>Examples of tasks include: I'm looking for a photograph of an animal,
>>>where do I look? I only know the French common name of that species,
>>>what do I do?
>>>
>>>
>>i'd say the best bet for that right now would be to go to the french
>>wikipedia and find the scientific name (and possiblly even a link to
>>commons) from there.
>>
> Yes, this is exactly the method we explain on www.wikitheque.fr. It may
> sound obvious to us, but external users can't be expected to guess it.
> This is why we give those task-oriented recipes...

Maybe you could use one of the tools hosted on the commons-server, that
collects interwiki-links starting from one article at fr.wp to automatically
find the right page/category on commons ....

Another idea would be a small tool that just fetches the english
interwiki-link and searches commons for matches.

Regards,

Flo


from_name: Michael Bimmler

body:
On 10/22/06, Titoxd at Wikimedia <titoxd.wikimedia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed. Also, I think it is just a matter of time before Joe Random User
> gets really annoyed about this, and reports us to a spam blacklist.
>
Agreed. IIRC the OTRS server already once got caught in a (Spamcop?)
blacklist which caused problems with email delivery to servers which
rely on this blacklist (i.e. do not accept mails from blacklisted
sources). So this is something we really need to avoid.
Michael
> Titoxd.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tels [mailto:nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:25 AM
> To: Wikimedia developers
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Password reminder from Wikipedia spam
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Moin,
>
> On Saturday 21 October 2006 14:36, Timwi wrote:
> > Sherool wrote:
> > > At least one vandal seems to have spesialised in spamming people with
> > > passwod reminders (he must have a bot), and growing number of people
> > > have been complaining about it.
> >
> > ... You *do* realise, though, that he does it primarily *because* people
> > get upset about it?
> >
> > > Sure they are easy to filter out, but we can't let spammers have free
> > > reign like this.
> >
> > If you'd filter them out and not make a peep about it, he'd lose
> > interest quickly.
>
> This dos not work, the emails are still generated, people are still upset
> etc.
>
> By your line of reasoning vandals would go away if everyone would just
> ignore them.
>
> There really is now reason to allow more then X password reminders being
> sent per day. Likewise, blocked IPs shouldn't be able to do this at all.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Tels
>
> - --
>  Signed on Sat Oct 21 15:23:32 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
>  Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
>  PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.
>
>  "Man, I'm hot." - "Thirsty?" - "No, I mean good looking."
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> +4Yk7bcyKeDK2fkL4trjQJT52FRduzFaD7KuG6a3MAGRPTTDGiSoqkqjyW2BVqOM
> 5AMxM+rloCvE+85c3EUE/e1EfgsFoAo+RaE1HkEJ3up/F7tXC8Q2yoAssN7EiVV1
> RjG0haAsBUjUuCfgqZZEZY29dZvzFVCZtaC87w2psTAxSRfAiMj6EKvKChaFUg0W
> 0nIWKtG8QuWz+gJBdBbbBv52mhP9gdo6E8N5eR7vx0D8dPVGp/gCR00rVjoye0ab
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> =8CPH
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


body:
On 10/22/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> Those there who put so much emphasis on vandal fighting seem to forget
> that the aim of Wikipedia is to write an encyclopedia.

The counter argument to that would that yuo don't need to be an admin to edit.

--
geni


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] Editors, who are not editors

body:
On 20/10/06, Peter Ansell <ansell.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been increasingly worried about one editors contribution
> history lately. The vast majority (possibly over 90%) of their last
> 500 edits have been in Wikipedia/Wikipedia talk space. It is my
> understanding that Wikipedia: space is for editors to use to organise
> the development of articles.
>
> My question is how does an editor--who spends all their time in
> Wikipedia space--know what they are trying to achieve?

The real question is what was before those 500 edits. Are we talking
someone who only sits in that namespace ever, or are we talking a
several-year-standing highly active user who happens to have been
focusing on project work in the last few weeks?

The answers for the two cases are very different.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


body:
geni wrote:

>On 10/22/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Those there who put so much emphasis on vandal fighting seem to forget
>>that the aim of Wikipedia is to write an encyclopedia.
>>
>>
>The counter argument to that would that yuo don't need to be an admin to edit.
>
>
True enough.  I've gone 4 1/2 years steadfastly refusing to be an
admin.  There have been some occasions where I would have found it
useful to look at deleted articles, or to move things around, or
sometimes to edit locked pages.  (Most recently to fix "can not" to
"cannot" in the disclaimer statement)  None of this would involve vandal
fighting.  I may apply for adminship on my fifth anniversary. ;-)

Ec


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
SPUI wrote

> So you'd like to fill up road articles with reports of maps that show
> them still existing, or not existing, or going incorrectly? Talk about
> "cruft"...

There is certainly room for comments on glaring errors in satnav maps.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
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from_name: Anthony

subject: [WikiEN-l] Editors, who are not editors

body:
On 10/19/06, Peter Ansell <ansell.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been increasingly worried about one editors contribution
> history lately. The vast majority (possibly over 90%) of their last
> 500 edits have been in Wikipedia/Wikipedia talk space. It is my
> understanding that Wikipedia: space is for editors to use to organise
> the development of articles.
>
What exactly are you worried about?  I could guess at some things, but
they'd really only be guesses.

And what makes you think Wikipedia: space is for organizing the
development of articles?  Seems to me that's more the job of the Talk:
space, and that Wikipedia: space is for more meta type issues.

> My question is how does an editor--who spends all their time in
> Wikipedia space--know what they are trying to achieve?
>
I can't say I understand this question.  How does an editor...know
what they are trying to achieve?

Anthony


subject: [WikiEN-l] Editors, who are not editors

body:
Andrew Gray wrote:

>On 20/10/06, Peter Ansell <ansell.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have been increasingly worried about one editors contribution
>>history lately. The vast majority (possibly over 90%) of their last
>>500 edits have been in Wikipedia/Wikipedia talk space. It is my
>>understanding that Wikipedia: space is for editors to use to organise
>>the development of articles.
>>
>>My question is how does an editor--who spends all their time in
>>Wikipedia space--know what they are trying to achieve?
>>
>>
>The real question is what was before those 500 edits. Are we talking
>someone who only sits in that namespace ever, or are we talking a
>several-year-standing highly active user who happens to have been
>focusing on project work in the last few weeks?
>
>The answers for the two cases are very different.
>
You're both right.  Applying this to any one editor would be a time
consuming process.  Administration is an open pit of a job where it's
very easy to lose track of why you are involved in Wikipedia in the
first place.  Civil engineers with great ideas about design and
construction end up administring companies, and never do real
engineering work again.

Worthwhile as it may be we have never asked admins to subject themselves
to reality checks from time to time.  It would be a great idea to
require that admins spent 10% of their work on real edits, but I doubt
that it would be enforceable.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] Editors, who are not editors

body:
On 22/10/06, Peter Ansell <ansell.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just do not see how they are practically improving the encyclopedia
>
with these types of distributions of edits.
>

I think the issue is being overblown a bit. Some people prefer to be
involved in the day-to-day running and administration of projects and I
don't think there's a problem with letting them do this. Encyclopedia
Britannica hires many people who are involved in admin-only work.

If there were hundreds of users doing this there would be a problem; we'd
have to examine why so many non-participating users are influencing policy.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


body:
Ray Saintonge wrote

> An encyclopedia that doesn't suck recognizes that different people have
> different ideas about what is important, and respects them for that.
> What could be more self-evident than that.

Oh, quite a few things, really. Conflating comprehensiveness with pluralism: I think enWP does this quite well. If someone tells me that the German WP has its head clearer about that (which I believe to be the case, though not from a huge personal experience), I'm not going to write it off for that reason.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software
Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information


subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:50:05 -0600, Bryan Derksen
> <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Never mind, I just checked the talk page and the unregistered editor
>> looks like he's fully aware of the situation.
>
> Seems to me like SPUI has finally found another editor who is as
> unshakeable in his certainties as SPUI himself :-)

Er? Firstly, my statement didn't indicate "unshakeability" - I said it
_looks_ like he's aware of the situation. I'm usually quite careful to
weasel-word my assertions in discussions like this (for example, I just
changed "always" to "usually" in this line in case there exists a post
where I failed to do so :)

And secondly, it looks pretty clear to me. On the talk page I find
paragraphs from the IP in question such as:

> SPUI, please stop removing the reference by USDOT regarding their contract list for various toll facilities. Federal contracts are very specific and often quite detailed (even more so than many laws), and if anybody knows the details of a contract with the Federal government, it's the Federal government. Period. Because the contract report was so specific regarding SR 913/Rickenbacker Causeway, any disputes you have with the reference you should take up with USDOT, and any further removal of the references will be taken up with admins... at least. Your removals are bordering on bad faith, to put it diplomatically. Remember how "wrong" B.Wind and I were about the former SR 5A?

and

> SPUI wrote "Assuming that's not misleading, it could apply to the road between US 1 and the toll booths, which is named Rickenbacker Causeway." Wrong - the road north of the toll booths is not Rickenbacker Causeway but Southwest 26th Road, and it has been that way since before the original Rickenbacker Causeway was opened in 1947. In fact the Rickenbacker Causeway is the southward continuation of SW 26th Road.
>
> In addition, SPUI's assertion of "Basically, anything not by FDOT calling it SR 913 is making generalizations, and cannot be relied on to get the extent right" is interesting in itself as it declares his bias without giving references indicating that there is no other reliable source of SR information, discounting both the local governments, the Highway Patrol, the Federal government, or anything else that he refuses to consider. This is not a case of objective editing but one of hero worship, and he is not willing to concede that either A) there is no definitive FDOT source stating the location of the termini, or B) that, despite being a collection of human beings, FDOT makes the occasional error, too (and the errors have been well documented, including those by SPUI on his former site). In this case, he'd rather press his argument about his interpretation of the evidence instead of resolving the issue. The only dispute regarding this is in SPUI's mind. I shall gladly del
ete this paragraph upon evidence to the contrary.

Which certainly doesn't seem like stuff that would be written by an
editor who doesn't even know how to check the edit summaries and has no
idea why his edits keep vanishing.

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subject:
[WikiEN-l] Comic book articles and fancruft (was:
	Pattern	copyvios involving...)

body:
Phil Sandifer wrote

> The problem is... well, let's pull up a solid midlist Marvel
> character - Speedball. 1603 word article. Only 500 words of that
> pertain to the real world instead of the fictional world of the
> comics. That's the problem. Fancruft is in many ways a poor choice of
> terms for this.

Fair point. I think what Phil is saying is like this: people tend to write without 'breaking the fourth wall', in a voice that suspends the disbelief. But this is surely a larger issue, anyway. Just take a Greek myth. You can read it in an integrated account; or sourced to the texts. Robert Graves's notorious 'Greek Myths' basically gives you the choice. I guess most people read the fluent versions, not the notes (which ironically are full of the most flagrant OR, as is well known ...).

Charles

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> Which certainly doesn't seem like stuff that would be written by an
> editor who doesn't even know how to check the edit summaries and has no
> idea why his edits keep vanishing.

And in another just-noticed-after-I-pushed-"send" update, I see that
this argument has been going on in some form or another since April -
those paragraphs I posted here as examples were from back then, though
there are recent ones as well. Considering how long this has been going
on I'd definitely recommend dispute resolution at this point, the advice
of the mailing list on the sourcing issue itself is probably not going
to help much.

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body:
On 22/10/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Phil Sandifer wrote
>
> > The problem is... well, let's pull up a solid midlist Marvel
> > character - Speedball. 1603 word article. Only 500 words of that
> > pertain to the real world instead of the fictional world of the
> > comics. That's the problem. Fancruft is in many ways a poor choice of
> > terms for this.
>
> Fair point. I think what Phil is saying is like this: people tend to write without 'breaking the fourth wall', in a voice that suspends the disbelief.

I assume this was a reply to me.

While I think it sensible for an article mostly about a fictional
character to be about the fictional character within the fictional
universe, I agree it is terrible to write an account of this without
breaking the fourth wall. It goes without saying that even accounts of
fictionalised happenings should always be written in a way appropriate
for a generalist encyclopedia.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


body:
Oldak Quill wrote:
> On 22/10/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com
> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Phil Sandifer wrote
>>
>>> The problem is... well, let's pull up a solid midlist Marvel
>>> character - Speedball. 1603 word article. Only 500 words of that
>>> pertain to the real world instead of the fictional world of the
>>> comics. That's the problem. Fancruft is in many ways a poor choice of
>>> terms for this.
>> Fair point. I think what Phil is saying is like this: people tend to write without 'breaking the fourth wall', in a voice that suspends the disbelief.
>
> While I think it sensible for an article mostly about a fictional
> character to be about the fictional character within the fictional
> universe, I agree it is terrible to write an account of this without
> breaking the fourth wall.

But in this specific instance, the [[Speedball (comics)]] article breaks
the fourth wall quite well. There's a section on publication history
before his "fictional biography" and a couple of sections later on about
other media he's appeared in.

And even in the case of a hypothetical article that's nothing but
"fictional" content, I agree that the article is incomplete but strongly
disagree with the notion that the way to fix it is to delete the
fictional stuff. Just add the real world context stuff instead. Not as
quick and easy a solution, but better for Wikipedia in the long term
(which is the only term I think is significant).

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body:
Parker Peters wrote:
> Modern society has evolved in such a way that "common sense" is a
> meaningless phrase, since over 90% of the population is too damned dumb to
> show any sense at all.

How is this any different from non-modern society? Consider some of the
nonsensical superstitions that were considered "common sense"
explanations in various points in history.

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from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] gingerbread chalkboards

body:
Not quite entirely on topic, but here's a real case from the earlier thread:

http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2006/10/14/gingerbread-persons-backlash/

Now, one that would be interesting would be to trace the phrase
"political correctness gone mad" in a proper and encyclopedic manner
...

- d.


body:
Earle Martin wrote:

>On 21/10/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I suppose that a crusade is just as socially acceptable among Muslims as
>>a jihad is among Christians.
>>
>>
>I can only conclude that you are trolling me, and consequently I shall
>skip your next few paragraphs.
>
My apologies I thought I was only feeding a troll.  I couldn't resist
the temptation to respond to the introduction of the concept of jihad.
The reference to the lesser and greater jihad was a fantastic
opportunity for me to inform myself about an element of Islamic
theology.  Connecting this with sloth inspired me to look into the
origin of the theology of the seven deadly sins; I learned something
else.  It was disappointing to realize that I was only dealing with
poetaster theology.

Some of us who feed trolls should also know when to stop.

>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad#Greater_and_lesser_Jihad
>>>
>>>
>>Excellent! It establishes that you were preaching the lesser jihad
>>whereby thes comic book articles would be conquered by the sword,
>>instead of having people examine their own motivations for expanding
>>these articles.
>>
>>
>No, I was espousing the greater application of discipline by editors
>as part of Wikipedia's collective mind. "Whereby these comic book
>articles would be conquered by the sword" is an absurd straw man.
>
A further apology for crediting you with the ability to understand the
metaphorical.  I have the bad habit of forgetting that fundamentalists
have this problem.

>What, and then they would be converted to, say, articles about
>Hemingway? No, don't even bother answering that question.
>
Thank you, I won't discuss Hemingway.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] gingerbread chalkboards

body:
On 22/10/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not quite entirely on topic, but here's a real case from the earlier thread:
>
> http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2006/10/14/gingerbread-persons-backlash/
>
> Now, one that would be interesting would be to trace the phrase
> "political correctness gone mad" in a proper and encyclopedic manner
> ...

And by "mad" I assume you mean "sanity challenged"?

--
Have a good day,
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] gingerbread chalkboards

body:
On 10/22/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now, one that would be interesting would be to trace the phrase
> "political correctness gone mad" in a proper and encyclopedic manner
> ...

The general concept is covered at [[Political correctness]]

--
geni


from_name: Parker Peters

body:
>
> > The "I promise not
> > to go batshit" is meaningless unless you know what people consider to
> > be going ah "batshit".
>
> Common sense specifies what batshit means. Anything else should be
> supported with expository links.
>

Modern society has evolved in such a way that "common sense" is a
meaningless phrase, since over 90% of the population is too damned dumb to
show any sense at all.

Parker


from_name: Graham Pearce

subject:
[Wikitech-l] major accessibility problem recently introduced to
	MediaWiki

body:
I'm user:Graham87 on the english wikipedia. I use a screen reader called JAWS from Freedom Scientific at:
www.freedomscientific.com
It is the most popular Windows screen reader at the moment.

My problem is that it appears that the edit link has become part of the title of each section created with wiki markup. This problem
is compounded when using quick navigation keys to navigate between sections; in this case, JAWS will stop reading a heading title
when it encounters a link. Therefore, each heading title will be read as either "left bracket" or "edit" when I navigate between
editable sections on a MediaWiki page. I tested this with JAWS 5.1 and 6.0, which aren't the most recent versions but are still
widely used and the problem appears on both of them. I am using Windows XP with IE 6 (Firefox only works well with the latest
versions of JAWS). The headings were working fine late last night my time (about 15:30 UTC on 21 October).

I would like this fixed as soon as possible so only the section title is spoken when navigating through headings.

Thanks,
Graham


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Include both, with sources?

body:
SPUI wrote:
> Sean Barrett wrote:
>>
>> Daniel P. B. Smith stated for the record:
>>
>>
>>> SPUI, what are you seeking from this mailing list?
>> Attention.
>
> Shut the fuck up.
>

Continue like that and you'll be placed on moderation. Keep in mind that
if you are, your posts will take an arbitrary length of time before they
are reviewed.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Aphaia

subject: [Foundation-l] FoundationWiki accounts

body:
Hello Effe,

On 10/19/06, effe iets anders <effeietsanders at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you mean technically use it or more as in policy? Technically it is
> quite easy, you go to the wiki where you want to import, go to the
> page Special:Import, and you do some selections and click on import.
> Maybe you have to use Special:ExpandTemplates to bring over the
> templates looking all right.

Thank you for instruction! I'll try later. Or other guys.

As for content, I appreciate you to bring it up. We need to discuss
what it publishes and not closely. Perhaps here or on meta.

I understand it is in responsible of Promocom (Elian & Akl) and
officers in some cases. We Transcom are in responsible of its
translation after the content is determined. As community vote for
deletion, a sysop per se isn't a person who determines what survive.
Generally I love to join discussion, not to use granted right only in
my discretion unless it's aparently of bureaucracy and waste of time.

--
Kizu Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


subject: [Foundation-l] FoundationWiki accounts


list: wikipedia-l

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Dream a little...

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
>
>> Roger Luethi wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It is not so much about copyright reform as it is about investing money
>>>
>>> rather than spending it, and this is a rare opportunity to talk about that.
>>>
>>> Another example, unrelated to copyright reform: Wikipedia editors need
>>> access to primary sources, particularly academic journals. The fate of
>>> current ventures in Open Access journals largely determines whether most
>>> potential Wikipedia editors will have easy access to the sources they need
>>> in the years to come, and funding for these journals (or lack thereof) will
>>> be a major factor.
>>>
>>>
>> Right. There are journal archives around with stuff going back hundreds
>> of years, but they claim copyright on all their materials; if we could
>> free that which already qualifies for PD-old, it would be a major step
>> in the right direction.
>>
> Being copyright is not just a simple matter of claiming copyright.  The
> old stuff is already free; it doesn't need any more freeing.  The law
> decides, not the claimants.  If it qualifies just use it.
>

I can't legally do so without violating the TOS of the archives; they
scanned and (apparantly) OCRed the originals, and claim copyright over
all their materials. I respect the copyright on the OCRing, but not on
the scanning (Bridgeman vs. Corel). Unfortunately I'm not in the United
States, so I can't use that as my excuse.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject:
[WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-l] major accessibility problem recently
	introduced to MediaWiki

body:
Someone's been playing silly buggers with Mediawiki: messages and CSS.

- d.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Graham Pearce <grahamwp at optusnet.com.au>
Date: 22-Oct-2006 06:27
Subject: [Wikitech-l] major accessibility problem recently introduced
to MediaWiki
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org

I'm user:Graham87 on the english wikipedia. I use a screen reader
called JAWS from Freedom Scientific at:
www.freedomscientific.com
It is the most popular Windows screen reader at the moment.

My problem is that it appears that the edit link has become part of
the title of each section created with wiki markup. This problem
is compounded when using quick navigation keys to navigate between
sections; in this case, JAWS will stop reading a heading title
when it encounters a link. Therefore, each heading title will be read
as either "left bracket" or "edit" when I navigate between
editable sections on a MediaWiki page. I tested this with JAWS 5.1 and
6.0, which aren't the most recent versions but are still
widely used and the problem appears on both of them. I am using
Windows XP with IE 6 (Firefox only works well with the latest
versions of JAWS). The headings were working fine late last night my
time (about 15:30 UTC on 21 October).

I would like this fixed as soon as possible so only the section title
is spoken when navigating through headings.

Thanks,
Graham

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Simetrical

subject: [Wikitech-l] Password reminder from Wikipedia spam

body:
On 10/22/06, Titoxd at Wikimedia <titoxd.wikimedia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed. Also, I think it is just a matter of time before Joe Random User
> gets really annoyed about this, and reports us to a spam blacklist.

It's already implemented.  Blocked IPs can't request new passwords anymore.


from_name: Brianna Laugher

references:
<OHEOKBPIOKBGALOCIOHIAEIOFBAA.bastique@bellsouth.net>
	<453A1BD6.3000604@free.fr>
	<54f6f2050610211211n37d6066eted1d80d6c6dee0fd@mail.gmail.com>

body:
wikitheque like discotheque?

presumably wikitheque has some kind of meaning in French. I can't
think of any obvious meaning in English, so I would hesitate to put a
portal there...

Anyway, go WM France, good idea. Would be even better if we had some
way to evaluate its effectiveness, but hey, gotta start somewhere.

Brianna
user:pfctdayelise

On 22/10/06, Oldak Quill <oldakquill at gmail.com> wrote:
> Surely this kind of portal could be useful in many different languages? I
> don't suppose one, single multilingual portal would be useful.
>
> Would it not be better to get it approved/officialised by Wikimedia
> Foundation for hosting on servers?
>
> If other languages decide to create similar portals why not use third-level
> domains: fr.wikitheque.org, en.wikitheque.org, &c.
>
>  --
> Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>