body:
anything's possible, it's SQL :)

On 8/23/05, Walter van Kalken <walter at vankalken.net> wrote:
> wmf at timshell.com wrote:
>
> >Is it possible and desirable to exclude user pages from the database dump?
> >So they don't end up on sites like Nazipedia ?
> >
> >
> >
> If it is possible I do not know. But I certainly feel it would be desirable.
>
> Waerth/Walter van Kalken
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
signature


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Haukur Þorgeirsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Pseudodoxia (neo-Nazi Wikipedia)

body:
> There seem to not have been ANY edits however...

Oh yes there have, look at this diff:

http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=Adolf_Hitler&diff=0&oldid=33

I especially like the small changes that make non-sense of a whole paragraph.

Before: "The records of this meeting provide the clearest evidence of
central planning for the Holocaust."

After: "The records of this meeting provide the clearest evidence that
central planning for the Holocaust never happened."

Before: "After these, the quality of Hitler's military judgement became
increasingly erratic and Germany's military and economic position
deteriorated."

After: "After these, the quality of Hitler's military judgement was still
brilliant, but Germany's military and economic position deteriorated."

They can have their fun, but let's make sure they follow the GFDL.

Regards,
Haukur


from_name: geni

body:
On 8/24/05, Zachary Harden <zscout370 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> While the website said they are not open, I decided to take a peek and see
> what they offered. So, for a test, I check out one of my articles [[Hero of
> Belarus]]. Well, they have a version of the article, which was an edit done
> on June 18 of this year
> http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=Hero_of_Belarus&action=history.
> That is the only edit, surprisingly, that the history shows. So, for another
> test, I clicked the talk page. They are using our templates alright, but no
> images (like in the article). I scroll down and see my name, and sure
> enough, my user page exists
> (http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Zscout370). Well,
> for other problems, I see the MediaWiki logo to the bottom. If there are
> other things that worry you, just let me know and I could snoop around. But,
> most likely, they took out site from the end of June, so this could have
> been untouched for two months.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zachary Harden

this is so not a Pseudodoxia user page

http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Geni

Is there any clever way to use Unicode to get round this type of
automatic replacement?

--
geni


from_name: Theresa Knott

body:
On 8/24/05, Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, is it that easy to set up a wiki? How much do you think they
> spent, in time and resources? There seem to not have been ANY edits
> however...

I've logged in - and replaced my user page with a note saying i didn't
want to be associated with the site. i then did the same on all my
archives - a good argument for not archiving talk pages. So now I'm
the most prolific editor of the nazi wikipedia. Woohoo!

Note to anyone considering doing the same. Do not use your wikipedia
password when you set up an account.

Theresa


body:
So tempting to test out page move vandalism. I've wanting to test
exactly how easy it is for a while (but I won't I have most of the
data that I wanted.)

--
geni


from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
Great point, this has all been a rather extreme abuse of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources

as well as the other policies invoked along the way.

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 8/24/05, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:
>
> >On 8/23/05, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> >
> >>slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>Look at the response to Amalekite's post here
> >>>http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=22047&highlight=wikipedia
> >>>
> >
> >>One thing that puzzles me is that these quotes are not firsthand from
> >>Amalekite ... So it sounds like we're talking about pre-banning not on the
> >>strength of a person's own statements, but on what other people are
> >>saying about him?
> >>
> >
> >But Amalekite runs the board. He runs [[Vanguard News Network]], and
> >yet he's not banning the people who want the "white man" to use
> >physical force against "semitic jew mongrels." He himself ended up
> >having to be moderated by Stormfront because of his anti-Semitic
> >language. It comes to something when even Stormfront starts deleting
> >your posts.
> >
> I confess to being confused by who was doing what to who on these
> various boards - the evidence suggests that the same person who
> had to be moderated on Stormfront was also the one counseling
> people to be careful on NPOV when editing on WP, which is kind of an
> odd mix of temperance and intemperance. I wonder a) if all these
> people are who they appear to be, and b) how much content is real,
> and how much is forged. One of the bonuses of owning a website is
> that you can change its content however you like (witness recent
> whitewashing on Rush Limbaugh's website, heh heh).
>
> Again, the only content and history we can really trust is
> what is under wikimedia.org.
>
> Stan
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Joshua Marinacci

subject: [Wikitech-l] rich client / webservice research

body:
>at the moment there is no such thing as a machine friendly interface,
>but some stuff about that can be found on meta, see
>
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Machine-friendly_wiki_interface
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Client
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Export_and_import
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiText_Transfer_Protocol
>
>[[de:Benutzer:Duesentrieb]] has written a patch to enable
>more "interesting" XHTML output:
>
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Duesentrieb/XML
>
>

I see. Is there a place to discuss such technology then? I'd really like
to see Wikipedia available beyond the standard webbrowser. If there was
a way to get out semantic xhtml (or better yet, a custom wikipedia xml
that is really rich), then we could do all sorts of interesting things.
This is the sort of stuff I'm thinking of:

a HitchHiker's style animated interface
local copies of common articles, pre-index with Lucene for full text
searching
ability to add personal or shared annotations (teacher to student, for
example)
convert a series of dates and events into an interactive timeline
render rich media in the client (video, animation, audio, svg, mathml)
reorganize a page to highlight certain content
split pages into smaller pages for ebook readers, wml phones, etc.

All sorts of interesting things become possible if we have some
programmatic way of accessing Wikipedia content.

>
>
>>I'm the author of Flying Saucer, an embeddable Java XHTML renderer and
>>I'm interested in making a client which could render Wikipedia content
>>in interesting ways. (annotations, searching, animation, etc.)  I'm
>>wondering if there are existing resources on this some where.
>>
>>
>
>i'm glad to hear flying saucer is alive!
>i'd very much like to use it for preview in my jEdit plugin,
>but could not get it to render mediawiki-output some
>months ago.
>
>

You've heard of it?! That's great. Yeah, we are still working on it.
Release 5 should be coming out any day now and I've already got some
experimental support for incremental layout in a branch. It's starting
to be pretty good.

- J

>daniel
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>


body:
Wow, is it that easy to set up a wiki? How much do you think they
spent, in time and resources? There seem to not have been ANY edits
however...

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 8/24/05, Zachary Harden <zscout370 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> While the website said they are not open, I decided to take a peek and see
> what they offered. So, for a test, I check out one of my articles [[Hero of
> Belarus]]. Well, they have a version of the article, which was an edit done
> on June 18 of this year
> http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=Hero_of_Belarus&action=history.
> That is the only edit, surprisingly, that the history shows. So, for another
> test, I clicked the talk page. They are using our templates alright, but no
> images (like in the article). I scroll down and see my name, and sure
> enough, my user page exists
> (http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Zscout370). Well,
> for other problems, I see the MediaWiki logo to the bottom. If there are
> other things that worry you, just let me know and I could snoop around. But,
> most likely, they took out site from the end of June, so this could have
> been untouched for two months.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zachary Harden
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Bonnie Deb Barma

subject: [Wikipedia-l] creation of wikipedia in kokborok language

body:
please create the wikipedia for the kokborok language.

( the language wikipage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokborok)

please guide me on this subject furthur

thnx
Bonnie


from_name: Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski

body:
They also don't have a GFDL notice.

--
Ausir
Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
http://pl.wikipedia.org


body:
On 8/24/05, Travis Mason-Bushman <travis at gpsports-eng.com> wrote:
> Willy on Wheels seems to have discovered a new playground :)

no he is a lot faster. Heck I would be a lot faster.

--
geni


from_name: Pawe³ 'Ausir' Dembowski

body:
> Wow, is it that easy to set up a wiki? How much do you think they
> spent, in time and resources? There seem to not have been ANY edits
> however...
> Jack (Sam Spade)

There have been some edits. See:
http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=Adolf_Hitler&curid=581&diff=39&oldid=33

--
Ausir
Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
http://pl.wikipedia.org


list: foundation-l

from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Information flow

body:
Lars Aronsson wrote:
> Tim Starling wrote:
>
>>In 2003 the problem was lack of hardware.
>
>
> You were able to solve the problem by adding hardware. Whether
> that is a victory or a failure is a matter of opinion.
>
>
>>We disabled every non-essential feature: just about every query
>>page, search, even watchlists at times.
>
>
> Yes, blindly hacking away, disabling useful functions at random,
> instead of analyzing where the bottlenecks were.  It was very
> embarrasing to watch.  The growth numbers in 2002-2003 for
> susning.nu (which still runs on a single server) show what
> software optimization can do, should you have chosen that path.

At the time, we were using larousse, an 850 MHz P3, for our PHP
processing. You were sharing a load balanced cluster of apaches. Yes,
you were only paying $50/month for it, but it's likely you were
subsidised by their smaller customers. And we were serving 8 times as
much traffic. I really don't think you appreciate the challenge we
faced. And like Dori said, we did use profiling data to optimise the code.

References:

http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-September/018605.html
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-October/018657.html

-- Tim Starling


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Information flow


from_name: Jakob Voss

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: What links here?

body:
Cormac Lawler wrote:

> Is there a Kate's tools-like way of counting the number of pages that
> link to any given page through the "What links here" function? This
> would be useful to see which policy pages are most often cited, for
> example.
>
> Oh, and I mean a *simple* tool for a technologically simple guy like me.

That's a very interesting idea! I just posted an answer to my blog:
http://wm.sieheauch.de/?p=19

Greetings,
Jakob


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Spell checking in MediaWiki

body:
Hi,

That page states that the ways for writing signed languages are closer
to Chinese characters than Latin script.

This is completely incorrect.

Please see below for my suggestion on signed languages.

There are 4 main ways of writing signed languages:

1) With word-for-word glosses in a spoken language. For ASL or BSL
this is usually English; for InSL it may be Hindi or another Indian
language or English; for Chinese SL it will probably be Chinese. While
this is suitable in most cases for writing whole sentences and
recording syntax and grammar, it gives no specific information about
what a sign looks like and thus is completely unsuitable.

2) Sutton SignWriting. This writing system is copyrighted and use of
it is not free. However, it is currently the most widely used of any
of the 3 main sign-writing systems today, at least by deaf people
(researchers are more likely to use HamNoSys or Stokoe). It is more
like Korean letters: each part of any given symbol says something
specific about how to form the sign, but they are combined to form
what may appear to the uninitiated to be a logographic sign, when in
fact it is most certainly not. More information at
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/signwriting.htm

3) HamNoSys. A very complex system that can be best compared with a
"Narrow transcription" of a spoken language using the IPA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonetic_transcription#Narrow_and_broad_transcription
, it is used mostly by researchers. However, it's much easier to
represent on computers than Sutton SignWriting. More information at
http://www.sign-lang.uni-hamburg.de/Projects/HamNoSys.html

4) Stokoe. Stokoe is actually, in a sense, the basis of HamNoSys. It
is more equivalent to the Latin script than any of the other systems,
in fact it borrows many letters from it. Its use is restricted mostly
to researchers today. Some people accept the minor changes made by it
by a BSL researcher, however any more drastic changes are usually
considered to be separate systems.

Suggestion: Use http://www.unm.edu/~grvsmth/signsynth/ -- data will be
stored as a computer representation of Stokoe, but can be played back.
Demo available at http://www.panix.com/~grvsmth/signsynth/ ...

Although the native rendering for SignSynth is VRML (Virtual Reality
Markup Language), I imagine it would be quite easy to convert
automatically or even to make it render initially in a more
widely-used format, such as some sort of video or animation format.

This would limit the space that would be taken up by the storage of so
many videos -- there are hundreds of signed languages on the planet
today, and to store videos for each word in all of them (or even just
the major ones and the 1000 most frequent words) would take up a lot
of space.

While it is obviously not perfect (look at the forehead... oh my is
she ugly!), it's definitely good enough that someone could imitate it
and their imitation would be the proper sign very accurately, and it's
also good enough that anybody who can speak sign language (there are
better terms than "speak", but they seem awkward to me) should be able
to understand it well.

Presumably, the developer of the software could be solicited for
further cooperation.

Mark

On 24/08/05, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lars Aronsson wrote:
>
> >Sabine Cretella wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Well Lars, we are not so far away from making a different point
> >>in that. It is one of the usages we have in mind with Ultimate
> >>Wiktionary. Since there we will have words in all languages and
> >>have these words in a relational database it is easy to "extract
> >>an actual spellchecker" every now and then.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I keep hearing these promises, but "seeing is believing"!  Have
> >you started actual work on UW yet, or are you sitting idle while
> >waiting for Wikidata to be released?  Will there be an English
> >free dictionary that can compete in size and quality with Aspell's
> >current dictionary by the end of 2005?  Or by the end of 2006?
> >
> Hoi,
> Actual work on UW itself is underway. Here you can find the data desisgn
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_data_design This
> design is very much open for comments and I am happy to say that many
> comments that were given have led to changes. I name but a few changes
> that came about this way; Can sign languages be included - now they can,
> Can attestations be included - now they can.
>
> As Ultimate Wiktionary is dependent on Wikidata, there is little option
> for us but to wait untill it is ready. It is really important that
> Wikidata is done well because it will not serve only Ultimate Wiktionary
> but also Ultimate Wiktionary.
>
> When both Aspell and Ultimate Wiktionary are considered Free, it should
> be possible for us to work together. Once we find this cooperation
> possible, we could host the data currently included in Aspell in UW. In
> return we would provide a publicly accessible website where it is easy
> to add new words thay will end up in Aspell. Even when we do not
> cooperate, there will be languages that currently do not have a
> spellchecker. These spellcheckers I am particularly exited about because
> this is where we will be able to add value.
>
> Without a massive infusion of data, it will be hard to predict when we
> have as many words as Aspell does for languages where Aspell has a
> dictionary.
>
> Then again, if we create a wordcount on the Wikipedia content, run it
> against a spellchecker, the resulting list should be spelled correctly
> and could be included in UW. Particularly for our biggest wikipedias and
> the amount of topics covered, it should be a list that might be close to
> the size of what Aspell has. We will also have a long list of words
> missing in Aspell. We will however not get a spellchecker for British or
> American in this way.
>
> Thanks,
>     GerardM.
>
>
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


body:
Hi Bonnie,

There seems to be an issue with the language:

Script issues

The issue of which script to use for the Kokborok language continues
to provoke political controversy. The line of the Ganamukti Parishad
of Dasarath Deb was that Bengali script ought to be used for the
language. That policy is the one implemented by the Left Front
government in Tripura. The ethnonationalist opposition, such as INPT,
advocates usage of Latin script.

There have also been attempts to create an entirely new script for the
language. The most notable one was constructed by Alinda Tripura. It
is however, not in use.

Mark

On 24/08/05, Bonnie Deb Barma <bdebbarma at gmail.com> wrote:
> please create the wikipedia for the kokborok language.
>
> ( the language wikipage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokborok)
>
> please guide me on this subject furthur
>
> thnx
> Bonnie
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Jtkiefer

body:
I just realized that they are violating our license, they aren't quoting
wikipedia as the source of content, and except for users who had the
foresight to use the this is a wikipedia userpage tag on their user and
user talk page, their pages are ripped unattributed on the site, that's
a violation of the GFDL I believe, I also wish there was a way to
prevent these bastards (I'm censoring myself due to the fact that
younger people might read this list, the correct word starts with an F
and ends with an S) since I don't want someone googling my username and
finding it mirrored in full on a Nazi wiki, and I think most users agree
with me on this.

-Jtkiefer


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject: [Wikitech-l] enotifwiki 3.50 released = mediawiki1.5rc1

body:
to whom it may concern
download links, helpdesk, documentation as usual on
http://www.enotifwiki.org

changes:
* small bugs are fixed
* updated to MediaWiki 1.5rc1
* e-mail notifications can be again configured to show a _fixed_ server
address
  which avoids http://localhost/... links in enotifs  (when someone
edits locally)


subject: [Wikitech-l] Permalink

body:
I put a "permalink" link in the sidebar. Consider it a trial, please
tell me what you think. This has often been suggested, but it was most
recently discussed at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#Permalink_in_the_sidebar

The UI message name to translate the link is "permalink".

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Lars Aronsson

body:
Sabine Cretella wrote:
> Well Lars, we are not so far away from making a different point
> in that. It is one of the usages we have in mind with Ultimate
> Wiktionary. Since there we will have words in all languages and
> have these words in a relational database it is easy to "extract
> an actual spellchecker" every now and then.

I keep hearing these promises, but "seeing is believing"!  Have
you started actual work on UW yet, or are you sitting idle while
waiting for Wikidata to be released?  Will there be an English
free dictionary that can compete in size and quality with Aspell's
current dictionary by the end of 2005?  Or by the end of 2006?

--
  Lars Aronsson (lars at aronsson.se)
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se


from_name: Kelly Martin

body:
In any case, the dump they used to build that mirror does not include
user records.

Kelly

On 8/24/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Theresa Knott wrote:
> > On 8/24/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Aren't passwords hashed in Mediawiki anyway??
> >
> >
> > No idea. But it's better safe than sorry
> >
>
> Brion confirmed that they are, but pointed out that thye could do
> something nasty.
>
> - --
> Alphax                      |   /"\
> Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
> OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
> http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFDDDQr/RxM5Ph0xhMRA3AKAJ9QsUf/DJQ58GT3Y7xat9CqxuOjugCfQ+I1
> iaEN7ypKRmL23BYZGp1dYXA=
> =FuCr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Permalink

body:
Alfio Puglisi wrote:
> Good, but unless I'm making some mistake it only works for the current
> revision - it's disabled when one is looking at an older version. Is this
> a feature or a bug?
>
> Alfio

Old versions *are* permalinks. I was attempting to convey that fact
visually.

-- Tim Starling


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: What links here?

body:
Yes, it is ridiculously charitable: neither of you are the first ones
to use that method. I for one have used it in the past, and I'm sure
others have too.

So neither of you "invented" it -- that function has been in the
software all along. You certainly discovered it, but you weren't the
first to do so.

Obviously, this can be done with any list produced by the MediaWiki
software: user contributions (doesn't work for older users),
whatlinkshere, etc.

Mark

On 24/08/05, Cormac Lawler <cormaggio at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/05, Jakob Voss <jakob.voss at nichtich.de> wrote:
> > Cormac Lawler wrote:
> >
> > > Is there a Kate's tools-like way of counting the number of pages that
> > > link to any given page through the "What links here" function? This
> > > would be useful to see which policy pages are most often cited, for
> > > example.
> > >
> > > Oh, and I mean a *simple* tool for a technologically simple guy like me.
> >
> > That's a very interesting idea! I just posted an answer to my blog:
> > http://wm.sieheauch.de/?p=19
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Jakob
> >
>
> Thanks so much Jakob :-D
>
> Andrew had already more or less suggested this but it wasn't until
> your detail that i figured out how to actually play with it - which
> was exactly my point. I've been playing around with it for a bit and
> some further results I got were (I redid NPOV and BOLD myself just to
> double check I was doing it ok):
>
> NPOV: 10,668
> BOLD: 9,172
> NOT: 7,245
> Civility: 4,658
> CITE: 2,969
> No personal attacks: 1,572
> NOR: 1,473
> BITE: 1,081
> Dispute resolution: 213
>
> (Jakob got 5600 links for Wikipedia:Wikiquette and 1,188 for Assume_good_faith)
>
> Interesting.
>
> Thanks again - and by the way, it's ridiculously charitable to suggest
> I "invented" this; it was as always a collaborative venture ;-)
>
> Cheers
> Cormac
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Skyring

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/24/05, Oskar Sigvardsson <oskarsigvardsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/23/05, Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is> wrote:
>
> > Oh, what a devious fellow he is.
>
> He's a nazi!!!!!!!!!!

Heaven forfend that I should be reduced to defending Nazis, but, so
what if a few edit WP? I'm sure that there are more than enough
editors to keep an eye on them.

I'm far more interest in the pathology shown in this discussion, where
some editors want to eliminate any input by other editors who don't
share their views, and demonise them into the bargain.

If the rules, such as they are, are applied unfairly, then like any
other human society, there will be resentment and revolt. It is
interesting to note the formation of cyber militias dedicated to
overthrowing or undermining the existing power structure within WP.
While I strongly doubt that these militia groups would be any better
in the justice and fairness stakes than the existing crew, that's
rather beside the point, and if the goal is truly to write an
encyclopaedia, then may I point out that it's a lot easier to do it
when there aren't people firing rocket grenades into your compound.
--
Peter in Canberra


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/24/05, Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is> wrote:
> > Also, how many people here would really
> > monitor his edits, and actually spend the
> > effort trying to figure out if they were
> > really NPOV, aside from those he has targeted?
>
> Let me ask you in turn. How many people are going
> to watch all his open proxy anonymous edits and
> sockpuppet edits and spend the effort to figure
> out if they are really NPOV?

Sun Tzu pointed out a long time ago that you don't need to defend
everywhere. In fact defending everything is the same as defending
nothing. The key to victory is to defend only those places that are
vital to both you and the enemy and take care to retain control.

Simply keep an eye on the articles that a neonazi cares about most and
when they are set down a POV course, then marshall your defenders to
correct the situation.
--
Peter in Canberra


from_name: Gordon Joly

body:
At 23:34 -0700 23/8/05, Joshua Marinacci wrote:
>Hello all. I was wondering if there is a particular website or
>mailing list specifically about automated access to the Wikipedia
>content?  I'm thinking of something along the lines of a webservice
>API or spec for semantic XHTML content.  Perhaps something about
>desktop application access as well?
>
>I'm the author of Flying Saucer, an embeddable Java XHTML renderer
>and I'm interested in making a client which could render Wikipedia
>content in interesting ways. (annotations, searching, animation,
>etc.)  I'm wondering if there are existing resources on this some
>where.
>

Does the Mac OS X "Dashboard" application (widget) fit the bill?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/dashboard/

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/reference/wikipedia.html

Gordo

--
"Think Feynman"/////////
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.joly at pobox.com///


from_name: Daniel Wunsch

body:
hi!

> Hello all. I was wondering if there is a particular website or mailing
> list specifically about automated access to the Wikipedia content?  I'm
> thinking of something along the lines of a webservice API or spec for
> semantic XHTML content.  Perhaps something about desktop application
> access as well?

at the moment there is no such thing as a machine friendly interface,
but some stuff about that can be found on meta, see

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Machine-friendly_wiki_interface
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Client
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Export_and_import
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiText_Transfer_Protocol

[[de:Benutzer:Duesentrieb]] has written a patch to enable
more "interesting" XHTML output:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Duesentrieb/XML

> I'm the author of Flying Saucer, an embeddable Java XHTML renderer and
> I'm interested in making a client which could render Wikipedia content
> in interesting ways. (annotations, searching, animation, etc.)  I'm
> wondering if there are existing resources on this some where.

i'm glad to hear flying saucer is alive!
i'd very much like to use it for preview in my jEdit plugin,
but could not get it to render mediawiki-output some
months ago.

daniel


from_name: Ryan W. (Merovingian)

subject: [WikiEN-l] For the love of wheels, why?!

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/24/05, Michael Turley <michael.turley at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/23/05, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:

> > I suspect a lot of admins would go for this level of power
> > actually. :-)
> >
> > Stan
>
> I also suspect more than a few administrators would be pre-banned as
> well, perhaps even more than half.
>
> Don't think so?
>
> Then consider that many atheists find theist beliefs to be
> fundamentally absurd, and many theists feel that way about atheists.
>
> To me, pre-banning people is a measure (albeit a small measure) of
> fascism and prejudice.  I prefer we don't join them in their cesspool.
>  Instead, judge them on the merits of their edits.

I cannot help but be reminded of the folk who preach tolerance in all
things, but whose definitition of tolerance turns out to be "putting
up with people I don't mind".

We should be tolerant of all viewpoints, and leave personal issues out
of WP. Focus on accuracy, NPOV, reliable sources and so on.

--
Peter in Canberra


from_name: Phroziac

body:
It's not like anyone's going to take them any more seriously then
they're taking our copyrights. And maybe they just did not read the
GFDL, and don't know what they did. Or maybe nazis don't believe in
copyright? :P

On 8/24/05, Jtkiefer <jtkiefer at wordzen.net> wrote:
> I just realized that they are violating our license, they aren't quoting
> wikipedia as the source of content, and except for users who had the
> foresight to use the this is a wikipedia userpage tag on their user and
> user talk page, their pages are ripped unattributed on the site, that's
> a violation of the GFDL I believe, I also wish there was a way to
> prevent these bastards (I'm censoring myself due to the fact that
> younger people might read this list, the correct word starts with an F
> and ends with an S) since I don't want someone googling my username and
> finding it mirrored in full on a Nazi wiki, and I think most users agree
> with me on this.
>
> -Jtkiefer
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
On 8/24/05, slimvirgin at gmail.com <slimvirgin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/23/05, Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com> wrote:
> > slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:
> > >Look at the response to Amalekite's post here
> > >http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=22047&highlight=wikipedia
>
> > One thing that puzzles me is that these quotes are not firsthand from
> > Amalekite ... So it sounds like we're talking about pre-banning not on the
> > strength of a person's own statements, but on what other people are
> > saying about him?
>
> But Amalekite runs the board. He runs [[Vanguard News Network]], and
> yet he's not banning the people who want the "white man" to use
> physical force against "semitic jew mongrels." He himself ended up
> having to be moderated by Stormfront because of his anti-Semitic
> language. It comes to something when even Stormfront starts deleting
> your posts.

That's as may be, but you are missing the point. Perhaps innocently.
You aren't quoting anything actually written by the man himself. If
you were giving evidence in court, all your hearsay would be tossed
out.

--
Peter in Canberra


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

body:
Lars Aronsson wrote:

>Sabine Cretella wrote:
>
>
>>Well Lars, we are not so far away from making a different point
>>in that. It is one of the usages we have in mind with Ultimate
>>Wiktionary. Since there we will have words in all languages and
>>have these words in a relational database it is easy to "extract
>>an actual spellchecker" every now and then.
>>
>>
>
>I keep hearing these promises, but "seeing is believing"!  Have
>you started actual work on UW yet, or are you sitting idle while
>waiting for Wikidata to be released?  Will there be an English
>free dictionary that can compete in size and quality with Aspell's
>current dictionary by the end of 2005?  Or by the end of 2006?
>
Hoi,
Actual work on UW itself is underway. Here you can find the data desisgn
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_data_design This
design is very much open for comments and I am happy to say that many
comments that were given have led to changes. I name but a few changes
that came about this way; Can sign languages be included - now they can,
Can attestations be included - now they can.

As Ultimate Wiktionary is dependent on Wikidata, there is little option
for us but to wait untill it is ready. It is really important that
Wikidata is done well because it will not serve only Ultimate Wiktionary
but also Ultimate Wiktionary.

When both Aspell and Ultimate Wiktionary are considered Free, it should
be possible for us to work together. Once we find this cooperation
possible, we could host the data currently included in Aspell in UW. In
return we would provide a publicly accessible website where it is easy
to add new words thay will end up in Aspell. Even when we do not
cooperate, there will be languages that currently do not have a
spellchecker. These spellcheckers I am particularly exited about because
this is where we will be able to add value.

Without a massive infusion of data, it will be hard to predict when we
have as many words as Aspell does for languages where Aspell has a
dictionary.

Then again, if we create a wordcount on the Wikipedia content, run it
against a spellchecker, the resulting list should be spelled correctly
and could be included in UW. Particularly for our biggest wikipedias and
the amount of topics covered, it should be a list that might be close to
the size of what Aspell has. We will also have a long list of words
missing in Aspell. We will however not get a spellchecker for British or
American in this way.

Thanks,
    GerardM.

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Theresa Knott

body:
On 8/24/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Aren't passwords hashed in Mediawiki anyway??

No idea. But it's better safe than sorry

Theresa


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Re: For the love of wheels, why?!

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from_name: A. Nony Mouse

subject: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: Hey shithead

body:
I believe this should be added to Yuber's RFAR...

A. Nony Mouse

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Yuber <yuber07 at gmail.com>
Date: Aug 19, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Hey shithead
To: mousyme at gmail.com

How goes it?


body:
If you forwarded me the message, and pasted me the headers into it, I
could confirm if it is faked or not. I'd say they're related.

On 8/24/05, Ryan W. (Merovingian) <bigwiki at earthling.net> wrote:
> Last night my userpage was attacked by the one and only Willy on Wheels... or should I say William on Discs?  First, I'd like to thank Meelar for getting that straightened out.  Second, I received a strange email around the same time.  The email seems most definitely faked: gjspace (at) gjspace (dot) com.  GJSpace.com is similar to MySpace, except for the fact that it's cool, and doesn't suck so bad; it's run by GreatestJournal, so I have a GJSpace account.
>
> Anyway, I've got my userpage linked from my GJSpace profile, and the text of the weird email was:
>
> "You [sic] site is sooo damn insecure it makes me laugh, AH-HAHAHA!!"
>
> I'm guessing that "insecure" refers to the "Edit this page" button.  Could this be related to the WoW incident?
>
> --Ryan
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Habj

subject: [Wikipedia-l] The "What links here" function

body:
At least at Swedish Wikipedia, we have noticed that the function "what
links here" doesn't work properly. It misses out lots of links to the
page in question, which is a bit annoying. It has been like this since
the upgrade to MediaWiki 1.5.

Is it like this on all the Wikipedias? Is there info on the progress
on the matter somewhere? Has it been fixed on some Wikipedias, and if
so, is there something we can install at svwiki to make the function
work properly again?

Regards
/Habj


from_name: Walter van Kalken

subject: [Wikipedia-l] user pages in default dump

body:
wmf at timshell.com wrote:

>Is it possible and desirable to exclude user pages from the database dump?
>So they don't end up on sites like Nazipedia ?
>
>
>
If it is possible I do not know. But I certainly feel it would be desirable.

Waerth/Walter van Kalken


from_name: Lisa Thurston

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 70

body:
I second your petition in the strongest way possible Haukur.

I have no interest whatsoever in User:Amalekite, but I have a problem
with him/her being banned. If the measure of the progress of a country
is how well the people on the fringes of society are treated then the
same goes for Wikipedia.

David said Wikipedia isn't an experiment in democracy, just an
encyclopaedia. But is WP just an encyclopaedia? Isn't it a very
special and unique encyclopaedia that is the first to try to span all
state borders and all languages by coming but to the cornerstone:
NPOV.  So perhaps not democracy, but I think Wikipedia is a social
experiment of some kind and not just a resource. WP is special because
of the actual manner in which we are building the resource. Let's not
ignore that.

Considering WP has potential to beat any other resource on issue of
**neutrality** let's not do anything to compromise this. Let's not ban
a user just because of his/her opinions! That's introducing bias
straightaway. Let's ban the user if and when he or she actually *does*
something wrong, not for having beliefs we don't like!! (If I write
something opinionated and not generally accepted on another site I
don't want it to affect my "user ban case" on Wikipedia!)

Again this is not about one particular user, it's about how we deal
with all cases like this. I don't care that User:Amalekite is
apparently a neo-nazi. This is just a label and is unhelpful. A user's
actions, ie. edits, are the important thing here.

Lisa

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:40:20 -0000 (GMT)
> From: Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia
>
> > It's not easy to do this all the while knowing that the editor (in
> > this case) personally believes that his Jewish Wikipedian colleagues
> > are sub-human.
>
> I can only hope it's good exercise for the spirit.
>
>
> > Amalekite represents a tiny minority of nutcases who believe that
> > certain ethnic groups and races are not fully human and do not deserve
> > to live.
>
> I believe this is a minority view, even within the racist movement. Other
> parts of the racism spectrum are, I fear, rather more common. Common
> enough to form a significant minority view in some cases. Exactly where on
> the spectrum User:Amalekite dwells I do not know but he did not seem to be
> pushing the idea that certain ethnic groups do not deserve to live.
>
> I petition you: Lift your ban on the user. If he returns to editing (which
> I think is fairly unlikely) I'll undertake to babysit him and if he breaks
> any rules I'll immediately take the appropriate action.
>
> Regards,
> Haukur


body:
And he did, and I could, and it was spoofed. :)

On 8/24/05, Ryan W. (Merovingian) <bigwiki at earthling.net> wrote:
> Will do; I hope you can make sense of the headers, because I sure can't.  ;)
>
> --Ryan
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:29:05 -0400
> > From: Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] For the love of wheels, why?!
> >
> > If you forwarded me the message, and pasted me the headers into it, I
> > could confirm if it is faked or not. I'd say they're related.
> >
> > On 8/24/05, Ryan W. (Merovingian) <bigwiki at earthling.net> wrote:
> > > Last night my userpage was attacked by the one and only Willy on
> > > Wheels... or should I say William on Discs?  First, I'd like to
> > > thank Meelar for getting that straightened out.  Second, I
> > > received a strange email around the same time.  The email seems
> > > most definitely faked: gjspace (at) gjspace (dot) com.
> > > GJSpace.com is similar to MySpace, except for the fact that it's
> > > cool, and doesn't suck so bad; it's run by GreatestJournal, so I
> > > have a GJSpace account.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I've got my userpage linked from my GJSpace profile, and
> > > the text of the weird email was:
> > >
> > > "You [sic] site is sooo damn insecure it makes me laugh, AH-HAHAHA!!"
> > >
> > > I'm guessing that "insecure" refers to the "Edit this page"
> > > button.  Could this be related to the WoW incident?
> > >
> > > --Ryan
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: steve v

body:
I agree. And banning is feeding, BTW. Regardless of
the off-site crapola, the rule must be to follow due
process for Wikipedia, on Wikipedia. Be fair to begin
with, and judge particular edits on their merits, not
on a prejudiced (aka offsite info) view of the
contributor.

SV

--- Lisa Thurston <lisathurston at gmail.com> wrote:

> I second your petition in the strongest way possible
> Haukur.
>
> I have no interest whatsoever in User:Amalekite, but
> I have a problem
> with him/her being banned. If the measure of the
> progress of a country
> is how well the people on the fringes of society are
> treated then the
> same goes for Wikipedia.
>
> David said Wikipedia isn't an experiment in
> democracy, just an
> encyclopaedia. But is WP just an encyclopaedia?
> Isn't it a very
> special and unique encyclopaedia that is the first
> to try to span all
> state borders and all languages by coming but to the
> cornerstone:
> NPOV.  So perhaps not democracy, but I think
> Wikipedia is a social
> experiment of some kind and not just a resource. WP
> is special because
> of the actual manner in which we are building the
> resource. Let's not
> ignore that.
>
> Considering WP has potential to beat any other
> resource on issue of
> **neutrality** let's not do anything to compromise
> this. Let's not ban
> a user just because of his/her opinions! That's
> introducing bias
> straightaway. Let's ban the user if and when he or
> she actually *does*
> something wrong, not for having beliefs we don't
> like!! (If I write
> something opinionated and not generally accepted on
> another site I
> don't want it to affect my "user ban case" on
> Wikipedia!)
>
> Again this is not about one particular user, it's
> about how we deal
> with all cases like this. I don't care that
> User:Amalekite is
> apparently a neo-nazi. This is just a label and is
> unhelpful. A user's
> actions, ie. edits, are the important thing here.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:40:20 -0000 (GMT)
> > From: Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is>
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia
> >
> > > It's not easy to do this all the while knowing
> that the editor (in
> > > this case) personally believes that his Jewish
> Wikipedian colleagues
> > > are sub-human.
> >
> > I can only hope it's good exercise for the spirit.
> >
> >
> > > Amalekite represents a tiny minority of nutcases
> who believe that
> > > certain ethnic groups and races are not fully
> human and do not deserve
> > > to live.
> >
> > I believe this is a minority view, even within the
> racist movement. Other
> > parts of the racism spectrum are, I fear, rather
> more common. Common
> > enough to form a significant minority view in some
> cases. Exactly where on
> > the spectrum User:Amalekite dwells I do not know
> but he did not seem to be
> > pushing the idea that certain ethnic groups do not
> deserve to live.
> >
> > I petition you: Lift your ban on the user. If he
> returns to editing (which
> > I think is fairly unlikely) I'll undertake to
> babysit him and if he breaks
> > any rules I'll immediately take the appropriate
> action.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Haukur
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
--- slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:
> [Troll in question] supports the idea that virtually
> all non-whites the world over ought to be
> exterminated, in order to eliminate even the
> possibility of racial intermixing, and their lands
> repopulated with white settlers."

So he's basically a conservative white Republican with
a nostalgia for old-style colonialism. (New
colonialism is called "democracy" these days).

Just to be fair, we should look at blocking other
ethno-supremacists too. Pushers of "dollar diplomacy"
particularly piss me off.

SV

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Guettarda

body:
It's the funniest place I've ever been.  Too bad I followed Theresa's
example to clean out my page, instead of GNAA-ing it like everyone
else.  Warning:Goatse everywhere.

On 8/24/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not like anyone's going to take them any more seriously then
> they're taking our copyrights. And maybe they just did not read the
> GFDL, and don't know what they did. Or maybe nazis don't believe in
> copyright? :P
>
> On 8/24/05, Jtkiefer <jtkiefer at wordzen.net> wrote:
> > I just realized that they are violating our license, they aren't quoting
> > wikipedia as the source of content, and except for users who had the
> > foresight to use the this is a wikipedia userpage tag on their user and
> > user talk page, their pages are ripped unattributed on the site, that's
> > a violation of the GFDL I believe, I also wish there was a way to
> > prevent these bastards (I'm censoring myself due to the fact that
> > younger people might read this list, the correct word starts with an F
> > and ends with an S) since I don't want someone googling my username and
> > finding it mirrored in full on a Nazi wiki, and I think most users agree
> > with me on this.
> >
> > -Jtkiefer
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
> --
> signature
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Fred Bauder

subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
There is a problem with this. A conservative white Republican would
not typically have the racist ideas this troll is said to support.

Fred

On Aug 24, 2005, at 12:37 PM, steve v wrote:

> --- slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [Troll in question] supports the idea that virtually
>> all non-whites the world over ought to be
>> exterminated, in order to eliminate even the
>> possibility of racial intermixing, and their lands
>> repopulated with white settlers."
>>
>
> So he's basically a conservative white Republican with
> a nostalgia for old-style colonialism. (New
> colonialism is called "democracy" these days).
>
> Just to be fair, we should look at blocking other
> ethno-supremacists too. Pushers of "dollar diplomacy"
> particularly piss me off.
>
> SV
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
Your qualifier of "not typically" is understood to
mean: "yes, there are probably some." The point is
that the ideologies arent so different to make them
exclusive -- and in fact they are quite similar when
you get down to it. Sure its infeasible to block all
bigots, but the basis for the recent argument was
claimed to have been in principle --not feasibility.
Its easy to play "whack a mole" when one limits
oneself to whacking just one color of mole.

Hence the apparent new [[Wikipedia:Preemptive blocking
policy]] should have an equitable application clause.
We dont usually label users of militarist-dehumanist
terms (ie. "enemy", "insurgents," and "terrorists") as
"trolls," and yet from an NPOV these terms are simply
disguises for a deeper undercurrent of shallow
bigotry.
Equitable application of the "preemptive blocking
principle" would require that any use of dehumanizing
terms be treated as being based in ethnic bigotry.

IAC, "preemptively" blocking anyone smells more like a
lack of trust in WP's normal dispute resolution or a
plain compromise of our own basic ethics than
something to cheer on.

SV

--- Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:

> There is a problem with this. A conservative white
> Republican would
> not typically have the racist ideas this troll is
> said to support.
>
> Fred

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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from_name: Cormac Lawler

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: What links here?

body:
On 8/24/05, Jakob Voss <jakob.voss at nichtich.de> wrote:
> Cormac Lawler wrote:
>
> > Is there a Kate's tools-like way of counting the number of pages that
> > link to any given page through the "What links here" function? This
> > would be useful to see which policy pages are most often cited, for
> > example.
> >
> > Oh, and I mean a *simple* tool for a technologically simple guy like me.
>
> That's a very interesting idea! I just posted an answer to my blog:
> http://wm.sieheauch.de/?p=19
>
> Greetings,
> Jakob
>

Thanks so much Jakob :-D

Andrew had already more or less suggested this but it wasn't until
your detail that i figured out how to actually play with it - which
was exactly my point. I've been playing around with it for a bit and
some further results I got were (I redid NPOV and BOLD myself just to
double check I was doing it ok):

NPOV: 10,668
BOLD: 9,172
NOT: 7,245
Civility: 4,658
CITE: 2,969
No personal attacks: 1,572
NOR: 1,473
BITE: 1,081
Dispute resolution: 213

(Jakob got 5600 links for Wikipedia:Wikiquette and 1,188 for Assume_good_faith)

Interesting.

Thanks again - and by the way, it's ridiculously charitable to suggest
I "invented" this; it was as always a collaborative venture ;-)

Cheers
Cormac


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
Reason 1: "Provocative list" - This seems like the one
valid reason for a block, but this interprets the
issue as one of a direct personal attack against
individuals, which is unclear, as others have
mentioned. Even if it were, such attacks are outside
of Wikipedia, and therefore cant be dealt with through
our formal process. Does Slim feel she is in a
position to impose informal process?
Reason 2: "Seems to be staging a major disruption" -
As Matt pointed out (the only one apparently), the
user in question has also admonished people to adhere
to NPOV. It would at least be interesting if those of
that particular right-wing extremist orientation can
actually adhere to NPOV, but the block sanctions a
prejudice toward the contrary.
Reason 3: "Claims elsewhere that this (his userpage?)
is his homepage" - Doesnt seem to have much weight at
all.
Reason 4: "Block was inline with IAR (ignore all
rules)" - IAR trumps real policy?

SV

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


from_name: u.sorib at gmail.com

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikinews Russian Edition

body:
>Looks good. I suggest you send a request for creation of the language to
foundation-l.
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Eloquence%22>Eloquence09:55, 21
August 2005 (UTC)
So , I would like to request the creation of Russian Edition of Wikinews.
Sorib


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikinews Russian Edition


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
--- Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
> There is a problem with this. A conservative white
> Republican would
> not typically have the racist ideas this troll is
> said to support.

PS: The "problem" is the focus on racial bigotry, when
the real issue is ethnic bigotry in general --of which
racism is merely a more overt aspect.

So while its good to call a spade a spade, its easy to
single out the very overt examples while ignoring the
similarities between extremist goals and philosophis
in more "mainstream" views. In English:

Bombing people on claims of racial rationale is no
less evil than bombing them on the basis of claimed
ideological rationale, or on claims to divine purpose.
Its the same thing, at the very least from the point
of view of the bombed - which certainly deserves some
consideration, according to NPOV.

SV

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] Scrotum in Korean is Eum Nang

body:
I just renamed user:?? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%EC%9D%8C%EB%82%AD>  to user:Eum Nang <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Eum_Nang> . Where do I go to check whether I did this correctly? Is there a Bureaucrats Chat page, or something?

My first reason is that Scrotum in Korean is Eum Nang. My second reason is that, aside from me and a handful of others here at the English Wikipedia, no one can read that username.

Ed Poor


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Improving navigation of WMF pages on meta

references:
<cfe1dfe1050821024861a15333@mail.gmail.com>	<cfe1dfe105082102563381b2cb@mail.gmail.com>	<de9n1p$hpa$1@sea.gmane.org>	<cfe1dfe105082105003f633ae5@mail.gmail.com>	<deal8a$l6p$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<cfe1dfe105082315262630a462@mail.gmail.com>

body:
Dan Grey wrote:
> On 21/08/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>However, I agree some other links could be removed. Elections can be put
>>in board. Chapters could be limited to one general link to all chapters,
>>where we can also generally explain relationship, mailing list etc...
>
>
> All true. Except the template was locked.
>
> Nice.
>
>
> Dan

I guess Datrio locked it when you started an edit war with Aphaia.

Well, most of us have pretty strong opinions generally :-) Best to
discuss this in talk page first. I'll unlock it soon if no one does it.


from_name: Alfio Puglisi

subject: [Wikitech-l] <includeonly> and <noinclude>

body:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Tim Starling wrote:

>I wrote a feature at Wikimania and forgot to announce it outside that
>audience. It's live now on Wikimedia websites. The feature is the
>ability to control template inclusion by the use of <noinclude> and
><includeonly> tags.

The feature doesn't seem to work when the template is inserted using the
subst: method. Should I report this as a bug?

Alfio


from_name: Alphax

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Theresa Knott wrote:
> On 8/24/05, Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Wow, is it that easy to set up a wiki? How much do you think they
>>spent, in time and resources? There seem to not have been ANY edits
>>however...
>
>
> I've logged in - and replaced my user page with a note saying i didn't
> want to be associated with the site. i then did the same on all my
> archives - a good argument for not archiving talk pages. So now I'm
> the most prolific editor of the nazi wikipedia. Woohoo!
>
> Note to anyone considering doing the same. Do not use your wikipedia
> password when you set up an account.
>

Aren't passwords hashed in Mediawiki anyway??

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDDCWu/RxM5Ph0xhMRA/RRAJ0QtL6fwn/j4oa7KeHNa/56YU4V9wCfeXk2
/GT18koVM3G4auZmcpdRKyU=
=dmyq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
Sounds like a perfect application of IAR then. Am I on the list? :o

On 8/24/05, Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is> wrote:
> > Hence the apparent new [[Wikipedia:Preemptive blocking
> > policy]] should have an equitable application clause.
>
> I'd like to add that while pre-emptive blocking of known nazis has been
> proposed in this discussion, Rachel has explicitly denied that this is her
> reason for blocking User:Amalekite. In her own words:
>
> "He wasn't blocked for being a member of [[Vanguard News Network]] or
> [[Stormfront]]"
>
> I believe her, of course, and we have every reason to trust her. Her
> actual reasons for the block are best given in her own words:
>
> "Amalekite is [[Alex Linder]], the owner-operator of [[Vanguard News
> Network]]. He has posted a list of Wikipedians he believes are Jews on the
> [[Stormfront]] website, as well as details of how to edit using open
> proxies and sockpuppets. It's clear he was trying to cause major
> disruption,
> - - -
> I would also argue that for a Wikipedian to draw up a list of other
> editors by their perceived ethnicity, and to post that list on a racist
> website, is highly provocative, and I don't see how it can be detached
> from his actions on Wikipedia. He wasn't blocked for being a member of
> [[Vanguard News Network]] or [[Stormfront]], but for his actions in
> encouraging anti-Semites and racists to target Jewish editors, and for
> encouraging them to violate policy by creating sockpuppets and using open
> proxies. I don't see why we should have to wait until the disruption
> begins before blocking him. He tried to cause massive disruption: that he
> (appears to have) failed was simply down to the others' lack of response."
> - http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-August/027590.html
>
> Her reasons are contested but let's be careful not to attribute something
> to her which she didn't say. I'm not saying anyone is doing that - I just
> wanted to make things clear for those who might not have followed the
> discussion from the beginning.
>
> Regards,
> Haukur
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Skyring

body:
On 8/24/05, Jtkiefer <jtkiefer at wordzen.net> wrote:
> I just realized that they are violating our license, they aren't quoting
> wikipedia as the source of content, and except for users who had the
> foresight to use the this is a wikipedia userpage tag on their user and
> user talk page, their pages are ripped unattributed on the site, that's
> a violation of the GFDL I believe, I also wish there was a way to
> prevent these bastards (I'm censoring myself due to the fact that
> younger people might read this list, the correct word starts with an F
> and ends with an S) since I don't want someone googling my username and
> finding it mirrored in full on a Nazi wiki, and I think most users agree
> with me on this.

I don't think anybody with any sense will be confused and I think that
these folk are probably sitting back and enjoying watching all the
outrage caused here.

Let's get real. Wikipedia, no matter how much we love it, is only one
tiny fragment of the web. There are any number of mirror sites and
similiar wikis, and nobody is going to take a real lot of notice of a
neoNazi wikipedia. It's like someone got a cheap dictionary, whited
out all the words they didn't like or scrawled their own definitions,
and then put it on the shelves at the local library. BFD.
--
Peter in Canberra


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: What links here?

body:
On 8/24/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are better, more accurate ways to do this, which generally involve
> running Perl scripts over database dumps. The disambiguation link repair
> lists on en: are generated this way. With Perl and a DB dump, pretty
> much anything is possible :)

Yes, but the original question was a (technologically) *simple* way. I
asked this question a little more succinctly on the wiki-research-l
list; Andrew (Fuzheado) tried to explain, but I still managed not to
get it ;-) If, however you would like to either create this tool or
write a simple "how to" guide of the method you describe, I would be
eternally grateful.

Cormac


from_name: slimvirgin at gmail.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
On 8/24/05, steve v <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bombing people on claims of racial rationale is no
> less evil than bombing them on the basis of claimed
> ideological rationale, or on claims to divine purpose.

El C summed up the reason trying to engage extreme racists and
anti-Semities in dialogue on Wikipedia is probably pointless, and why
they perhaps differ in kind from other types of extremists. This from
the mailing list, Feb 24:

"When one editor sees another not as human but as sub-human,
intrinsically and irreversibly, such a dialogue, though it might find
formal expression, is a caricature by any stretch."
http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-February/020314.html

Sarah


body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Theresa Knott wrote:
> On 8/24/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Aren't passwords hashed in Mediawiki anyway??
>
>
> No idea. But it's better safe than sorry
>

Brion confirmed that they are, but pointed out that thye could do
something nasty.

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDDDQr/RxM5Ph0xhMRA3AKAJ9QsUf/DJQ58GT3Y7xat9CqxuOjugCfQ+I1
iaEN7ypKRmL23BYZGp1dYXA=
=FuCr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


from_name: Fablu Fablu

subject: [Wikitech-l] Website to block

body:
Hi, this website retrieve live content from wikipedia (text and images)
http://searchbox.it/

See for example this article just created:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodorico_il_Grande
http://searchbox.it/Teodorico%20il%20Grande


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject:
[Foundation-l] Re: Chapters,
	deductibility and donation profiles (was Wikimania 2006 - host city
	contest to open onSeptember 1st 20)

body:
--- Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> All right. In short, we should try to do some yearly budgeting for next
> year. I also wonder if this is possible, but possibly, with a full year
> past experience, this might be possible.

It should be possible to do so in draft form. You may have noticed that next
quarter's draft budget is already done. I should have draft budgets for the
first and second quarter of 2006 by the time it is finalized and made official.
But I don't think we can have actual yearly budgets until budget growth
stabilizes to something approaching linear increases.

> I suppose it would be easier as well to spend it on european-projects or
>   areas. We probably need to make a second type of budget as well,
> involving the chapters. Could not a global budget, with certain expenses
> being dedicated to local chapters help getting understanding from the
> tax office ?

We can specify needs and different chapters would be able to assist in whatever
ways they legally can. Whatever they help with, will just negate the need to
spend in that part of the budget and the surplus can be spent on special
projects, go into the reserve, or get rolled into the next quarter's budget.

ASIDE: It seems ironic that a non-profit in the U.S. is freer to act
internationally than similar organizations in the supposedly more
internationally-minded Europe. :/

> ermmm, and what about spending some of the money to get an expert in
> international organisations help to figure out how to organise all this ?

That will take a couple years - I plan to get an MBA in global management. :)

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
Is that particular extremist clique alone in viewing
other people as sub-human? Being particularly
sensitive to one form of bigotry is a bit out of
spirit with NPOV. El C's statement seems to be an
accurate characterization of a particular view, but
what principled basis for preemptive action can you
make based on how one "sees" another?  How does one
distinguish in principle or practice those particular
extremists from the those who might disparage
"camelniggers," "ragheads," "gooks," "chinks," etc.
though little trace of such views may be evident in
their editing? Even if such is evident in their
writing, making a special case of one user simply
makes them special --which they are not.

Certainly someone who imposes her own informal
interpretaion policy should be a bit more clear on the
subject. I respectfully urge you to remove the ban and
allow the normal policy path to take its course.
Either the user crosses the line or he doesnt. Even
with the tacit sanction or indifference to your block,
your act is a needless circumvention of the formal
process of dispute resolution which came to be long
before you got here, and brought about in no small
part through problems with the formentioned type of
unilateralism.

SV

--- slimvirgin at gmail.com wrote:

> On 8/24/05, steve v <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Bombing people on claims of racial rationale is no
> > less evil than bombing them on the basis of
> claimed
> > ideological rationale, or on claims to divine
> purpose.
>
> El C summed up the reason trying to engage extreme
> racists and
> anti-Semities in dialogue on Wikipedia is probably
> pointless, and why
> they perhaps differ in kind from other types of
> extremists. This from
> the mailing list, Feb 24:
>
> "When one editor sees another not as human but as
> sub-human,
> intrinsically and irreversibly, such a dialogue,
> though it might find
> formal expression, is a caricature by any stretch."
>
http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-February/020314.html
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


from_name: Joel Konkle-Parker

subject: [Foundation-l] New project licensing

body:
I've read the recent discussions on new project policies, and it seems
that there is somewhat of a consensus that focusing on the existing
projects is more important than recruiting new ones. I agree with this,
but I also think that this should not prevent us from working on some
policies for the future, as least on the question of licensing.

I participate in the WikiTree project [http://wikitree.org], and we're
seeing some success and popularity. Before we get too big, though, we
would like to know if there is any licensing policy that would be an
issue if we later would like to become a part of WikiMedia. We're
currently BY-NC-SA, and a license switch would essentially force us to
erase all data and start over. As such, we'd like to get it right.

>From an informal poll
[http://wikitree.org/index.php?title=WikiTree:License_poll], it seems
that most people support a liberal license, mainly either Public Domain
or GFDL. Would either of these be a good choice, and would they allow us
to participate officially in WikiMedia in the future? Or would something
else be more appropriate?

I look forward to your comments, either here or on the License Poll page
linked above.

- Joel


subject: [Foundation-l] New project licensing


from_name: SPUI

body:
Andrew Gray wrote:
> On 24/08/05, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>this is so not a Pseudodoxia user page
>>
>>http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Geni
>>
>>Is there any clever way to use Unicode to get round this type of
>>automatic replacement?
>
>
> Huh. Looking at user pages, some weirdness happened here; on mine,
> "fran?ais" turned into "fran?s".
>
> http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Shimgray
>
> Interestingly, yours has a boilerplate saying "This is a Pseudodoxia
> user page" - but mine, still generated from the template, says "This
> is a Wikipedia user page". Seems their search-and-replace wasn't quite
> so hot...

Actually the template was fixed to point back. The one on Wikipedia has
now been obfuscated further to help prevent that.


from_name: Haukur Þorgeirsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
> Hence the apparent new [[Wikipedia:Preemptive blocking
> policy]] should have an equitable application clause.

I'd like to add that while pre-emptive blocking of known nazis has been
proposed in this discussion, Rachel has explicitly denied that this is her
reason for blocking User:Amalekite. In her own words:

"He wasn't blocked for being a member of [[Vanguard News Network]] or
[[Stormfront]]"

I believe her, of course, and we have every reason to trust her. Her
actual reasons for the block are best given in her own words:

"Amalekite is [[Alex Linder]], the owner-operator of [[Vanguard News
Network]]. He has posted a list of Wikipedians he believes are Jews on the
[[Stormfront]] website, as well as details of how to edit using open
proxies and sockpuppets. It's clear he was trying to cause major
disruption,
- - -
I would also argue that for a Wikipedian to draw up a list of other
editors by their perceived ethnicity, and to post that list on a racist
website, is highly provocative, and I don't see how it can be detached
from his actions on Wikipedia. He wasn't blocked for being a member of
[[Vanguard News Network]] or [[Stormfront]], but for his actions in
encouraging anti-Semites and racists to target Jewish editors, and for
encouraging them to violate policy by creating sockpuppets and using open
proxies. I don't see why we should have to wait until the disruption
begins before blocking him. He tried to cause massive disruption: that he
(appears to have) failed was simply down to the others' lack of response."
- http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-August/027590.html

Her reasons are contested but let's be careful not to attribute something
to her which she didn't say. I'm not saying anyone is doing that - I just
wanted to make things clear for those who might not have followed the
discussion from the beginning.

Regards,
Haukur


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
Yes, I hadn't noticed the "it will not serve only Ultimate Wiktionary
but also Ultimate Wiktionary"... I assume Gerard meant something
serious by that, but whatever it was, I catch no ball (as they say in
Singapore).

Mark

On 24/08/05, Tomer Chachamu <the.r3m0t at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24/08/05, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > As Ultimate Wiktionary is dependent on Wikidata, there is little option
> > for us but to wait untill it is ready. It is really important that
> > Wikidata is done well because it will not serve only Ultimate Wiktionary
> > but also Ultimate Wiktionary.
>
> That makes... 1 project? ;)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.5rc3 released [SECURITY]

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

MediaWiki 1.5rc3 is a preview release of the new 1.5 release series.
It fixes several major problems in 1.5rc2:

* Fixed a cross-site scripting injection in the search form
~  (broken since 1.5beta1)

* Fixed upgrades from 1.4 database schema
~  (broken since 1.5rc2)

1.3 and 1.4 releases are not vulnerable to the XSS bug, but anyone
running an earlier 1.5 beta or release candidate should upgrade
immediately.

Release notes:
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=351567

Download:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wikipedia/mediawiki-1.5rc3.tar.gz?download

MD5 checksum:
mediawiki-1.5rc3.tar.gz   fd051830057a1b5e7ea7032933a9cd6c

Before asking for help, try the FAQ:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ

Low-traffic release announcements mailing list:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce

Wiki admin help mailing list:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Bug report system:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/

Play "stump the developers" live on IRC:
#mediawiki on irc.freenode.net

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
20:34, 22 August 2005 SlimVirgin (added that the account is blocked
indefinitely, because Amalekite is posting elsewhere that this is his
homepage)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Amalekite&action=history

was the reasoning for violating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Controversial_blocks

as best as I can tell. What was said later on the mailing list is
another subject.

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 8/24/05, Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is> wrote:
> > Hence the apparent new [[Wikipedia:Preemptive blocking
> > policy]] should have an equitable application clause.
>
> I'd like to add that while pre-emptive blocking of known nazis has been
> proposed in this discussion, Rachel has explicitly denied that this is her
> reason for blocking User:Amalekite. In her own words:
>
> "He wasn't blocked for being a member of [[Vanguard News Network]] or
> [[Stormfront]]"
>
> I believe her, of course, and we have every reason to trust her. Her
> actual reasons for the block are best given in her own words:
>
> "Amalekite is [[Alex Linder]], the owner-operator of [[Vanguard News
> Network]]. He has posted a list of Wikipedians he believes are Jews on the
> [[Stormfront]] website, as well as details of how to edit using open
> proxies and sockpuppets. It's clear he was trying to cause major
> disruption,
> - - -
> I would also argue that for a Wikipedian to draw up a list of other
> editors by their perceived ethnicity, and to post that list on a racist
> website, is highly provocative, and I don't see how it can be detached
> from his actions on Wikipedia. He wasn't blocked for being a member of
> [[Vanguard News Network]] or [[Stormfront]], but for his actions in
> encouraging anti-Semites and racists to target Jewish editors, and for
> encouraging them to violate policy by creating sockpuppets and using open
> proxies. I don't see why we should have to wait until the disruption
> begins before blocking him. He tried to cause massive disruption: that he
> (appears to have) failed was simply down to the others' lack of response."
> - http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-August/027590.html
>
> Her reasons are contested but let's be careful not to attribute something
> to her which she didn't say. I'm not saying anyone is doing that - I just
> wanted to make things clear for those who might not have followed the
> discussion from the beginning.
>
> Regards,
> Haukur
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Tomer Chachamu

body:
On 24/08/05, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> As Ultimate Wiktionary is dependent on Wikidata, there is little option
> for us but to wait untill it is ready. It is really important that
> Wikidata is done well because it will not serve only Ultimate Wiktionary
> but also Ultimate Wiktionary.

That makes... 1 project? ;)


from_name: James D. Forrester

subject: [WikiEN-l] A minor point

body:
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steve v wrote:

> Reason 4: "Block was inline with IAR (ignore all rules)" - IAR
> trumps real policy?

Well, err, yes, when appropriate[*]. IAR, NPOV, and DBAD are the three
primary rules of Wikipedia ("policy trifecta", I've heard them referred
to), from which all other written documentation of policy, or "real
policy" as you put it, is derived, essentially. These written-down forms
are mere temporary instantiations of overall policy, imperfect (as all
written things are) and at any time wrong, though generally only in very
slight a subtle ways by the time they've been around long enough. As
David puts it (and, after some reading to find out what on Earth he was
talking about ;-), I've come to agree him), Wikipedia policy is a game
of "Calvinball"; 'tis not writ in stone.

I was mildly discouraged to see IAR be described as non-policy (meaning,
I assumed from the wording used, that it doesn't apply, rather than that
it operates as super-policy). I consider this to be a mis-appreciation
of what it actually means.

* - "When appropriate" being the entire reason that we have any policy
    at all but the trifecta - people often have quite some difficulty
    understanding what is and is not all right, so extensive policy
    documentation is written, saying "here is an example of what is not
    all right"; it is not, however, complete, and is not in any way
    intended to be.

Yours sincerely,
- --
James D. Forrester
Wikimedia : [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
E-Mail    : james at jdforrester.org
IM (MSN)  : jamesdforrester at hotmail.com
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from_name: ABCD

body:
On 8/23/05, Travis Mason-Bushman wrote:
> Willy on Wheels seems to have discovered a new playground :)

And Willy on Wheels! doesn't just move pages anymore - now s/he also
creates redirects to 500kb pages - from tempates!

ABCD


from_name: Mark Wagner

body:
I've turned a spellcheck bot loose on Pseudodoxia.  I figure it's
politer to do that than to replace user pages with goatse, or move
articles around at random.

Sample results:

Page title: Chordate
Corrected taxon to tax-on
Corrected Subphylum to Sublet
Corrected Tunicates to Tunics
Corrected Lancelets to Lancets
Corrected Hagfishes to Garfishes
Corrected Coelacanths to Volcanoes
Corrected Urochordate to Crochet
Corrected notochord to blotched
Corrected Cephalochordates to Schoolchild's
Spellcheck successful

--
Your friendly neighborhood spellbot


from_name: Heiko Evermann

body:
Hi Gerard,
> Actual work on UW itself is underway. Here you can find the data desisgn
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_data_design This
> design is very much open for comments and I am happy to say that many
> comments that were given have led to changes. I name but a few changes
> that came about this way; Can sign languages be included - now they can,
> Can attestations be included - now they can.
I want to propose (again) to make one important change:
I think it is important that an entry within one language can be tagged as
being correct according to several orthographies within one language. From
what I understood so far, I find that the word
de: "ist" (English: "(he) is") must be inserted twice, once for the new German
spelling and once for the old (before the recent reform). Even thogh this
word was not affected by the spelling reform. This applies to 95% of all
German words. And each of them gets complete translation coverage into all
languages. This is also a problem for Low Saxon (with our wide range of
possible spellings). You have tried to make your current design plausible to
me when we talked about it recently, but I was not convinced that this huge
multiplication of entries is a good idea. Maybe I misunderstood you somehow,
but I still do not understand it.

> Then again, if we create a wordcount on the Wikipedia content, run it
> against a spellchecker, the resulting list should be spelled correctly
> and could be included in UW. Particularly for our biggest wikipedias and
> the amount of topics covered, it should be a list that might be close to
> the size of what Aspell has. We will also have a long list of words
> missing in Aspell. We will however not get a spellchecker for British or
> American in this way.
Does that mean that you think about importing huge amounts of words without
definition and without any translation?

Heiko


body:
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Ryan W. (Merovingian) wrote:
> Last night my userpage was attacked by the one and only Willy on
> Wheels... or should I say William on Discs?  First, I'd like to thank
> Meelar for getting that straightened out.  Second, I received a
> strange email around the same time.  The email seems most definitely
> faked: gjspace (at) gjspace (dot) com.  GJSpace.com is similar to
> MySpace, except for the fact that it's cool, and doesn't suck so bad;
> it's run by GreatestJournal, so I have a GJSpace account.
>
> Anyway, I've got my userpage linked from my GJSpace profile, and the
> text of the weird email was:
>
> "You [sic] site is sooo damn insecure it makes me laugh, AH-HAHAHA!!"
>
>
> I'm guessing that "insecure" refers to the "Edit this page" button.
> Could this be related to the WoW incident?
>

Yes, some people are so overwhelmed by the concept of a Wiki that their
heads explode.

That or they hit the NPOV :)

- --
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=0/KR
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subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: What links here?

body:
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Mark Williamson wrote:
> Yes, it is ridiculously charitable: neither of you are the first ones
> to use that method. I for one have used it in the past, and I'm sure
> others have too.
>
> So neither of you "invented" it -- that function has been in the
> software all along. You certainly discovered it, but you weren't the
> first to do so.
>
> Obviously, this can be done with any list produced by the MediaWiki
> software: user contributions (doesn't work for older users),
> whatlinkshere, etc.
>

There are better, more accurate ways to do this, which generally involve
running Perl scripts over database dumps. The disambiguation link repair
lists on en: are generated this way. With Perl and a DB dump, pretty
much anything is possible :)

- --
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body:
Habj wrote:
> At least at Swedish Wikipedia, we have noticed that the function "what
> links here" doesn't work properly. It misses out lots of links to the
> page in question, which is a bit annoying. It has been like this since
> the upgrade to MediaWiki 1.5.

Links please.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Andrew Gray

body:
On 24/08/05, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:

> this is so not a Pseudodoxia user page
>
> http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Geni
>
> Is there any clever way to use Unicode to get round this type of
> automatic replacement?

Huh. Looking at user pages, some weirdness happened here; on mine,
"fran?ais" turned into "fran?s".

http://pseudodoxia.flawlesslogic.com/index.php?title=User:Shimgray

Interestingly, yours has a boilerplate saying "This is a Pseudodoxia
user page" - but mine, still generated from the template, says "This
is a Wikipedia user page". Seems their search-and-replace wasn't quite
so hot...

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Rob

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
We're pathological because we wish to demonize Nazis?

Seriously, what the hell?

Skyring skyring at gmail.com:
I'm far more interest in the pathology shown in this
discussion, where
some editors want to eliminate any input by other
editors who don't
share their views, and demonise them into the bargain.

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from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Offensive disclaimer on fundraising page

body:
On 8/25/05, Axel Boldt <axelboldt at yahoo.com> wrote:
> According to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> people who are not subscribed to foundation-l can still post to this
> list. Is that not correct anymore?

No, that hasn't been the case for at least a year. Erik switched this
setting off when he was moderating the list due to the level of spam
received by it every day.

Anthere and I are now the moderators. I don't know about Anthere, but
I deal with enough of my own spam and that sent to the Board address
to want any more from this list.

If anyone feels we shouldn't be rejecting posts like this, we're going
to need some more volunteers to take over the list adminship.

Angela.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
We're not here to get insight from interactions with
Nazis or anyone else, we're here to write an
encyclopedia.  If we need insight about Nazis to
improve Wikipedia articles, then we should get it from
the many, many published works about Nazis and not
from  having chats with them (which would be original
research anyway).

We're not here to convert Nazis to sanity with
Wikilove either. While I admire anyone stubborn and
capable enough to try to save a racist, that's simply
not our job.

We're here to write Nazis should be banned not just
because they are a particularly nasty form of human
virus, but because they will inevitably interfere with
our goals.  They will waste the time of editors who
must undo their vandalism, argue with them, explain
the rules, do research to refute their crackpot
nonsense, etc., etc.  We're here to write accurate,
NPOV encyclopedia articles, and anyone who interferes
with that goal should be booted, including Nazis,
vandals, trolls, social experimenters, and Anonymoose.

Michael Turley michael.turley at gmail.com:
As much as we dislike their views, it is likely that
Nazis and neo-Nazis will give us better insight into
their own views, and improve the articles related to
those viewpoints.

Geoff Burling llywrch at agora.rdrop.com:
What's the best that can happen? Maybe this Neo-Nazi
isn't as firm in his beliefs as he might think -- or
simply has never been exposed to other people
different from him -- & his experience on Wikipedia
convinces him to abandon these beliefs.

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from_name: steve v

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A neo-Nazi wikipedia

body:
How is the demonization of any particular group
encyclopedic? Or NPOV?

SV

--- Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> We're pathological because we wish to demonize
> Nazis?
>
>
> Seriously, what the hell?
>
>
> Skyring skyring at gmail.com:
> I'm far more interest in the pathology shown in this
> discussion, where
> some editors want to eliminate any input by other
> editors who don't
> share their views, and demonise them into the
> bargain.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
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> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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