subject:
[Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
	"old" - con't

body:
Thank you for your quick answer.
I'd like to precise a little more the doubts I have:

20050421_cur_table.sql.gz  ----> 864 108 KB
and
20050421_cur_table.sql  ----> around gigabytes (compression factor of around
3)

BUT

20050421_old_table.sql.gz  ----> around 31 gigabytes
and
20050421_old_table.sql  ----> 34 201 362 bytes (compression factor of around
1.1)

Even though gunzip seemed to have worked well, I am still very suspicious.
I was expecting an old_table.sql file of around 80 to 90 gigabytes.

I am sorry to insist, but it is very important for my research project to
have the integrality of the records in the table "old" for I am trying to
study collaboration processes among wikipedians.

Thank you very much.

Kevin Carillo

  _____

From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
Sent: April 26, 2005 11:48 AM
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
Subject: Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 48
Importance: Low

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule (Brion Vibber)
   2. Re: (no subject) (Tomer Chachamu)
   3. Re: Test wiki (Phil Boswell)
   4. Re: cvs head version - change of user preference: fully
      re-arranging the sub-options (Timwi)
   5. Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning (Timwi)
   6. Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia      "old"
      table  (Kevin Carillo)
   7. Re: cvs head version - change of user preference: fully
      re-arranging the sub-options (Phil Boswell)
   8. Re: Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
      "old" table (John Fader)
   9. Re: Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
      "old" table (Timwi)
  10. AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
      (Karl-Otto Kirst)
  11. AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
      (Karl-Otto Kirst)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 05:10:31 -0700
From: Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com <mailto:> >
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <426E2FB7.7090901 at pobox.com <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

MaPhi Werner wrote:
> So, out of naivity: how does the process work concerning the
> incorporation of enhancement patches?

Enhancement patches may or may not get integrated, depending on time,
interest, code cleanliness, bugginess, etc.

> I continued my work on read-access controlled pages (see
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-March/028105.html
> for my first approach). The second version abandoned the idea of hiding
> individual pages and deals with namespaces instead.

Read access restrictions are a really, really low priority. I personally
have no interest in seeing such a feature in MediaWiki, though others
might take a crack at your patch.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com <mailto:> )
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:07:42 +0100
From: Tomer Chachamu <the.r3m0t at gmail.com <mailto:> >
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] (no subject)
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <9a878c440504260607bce5714 at mail.gmail.com <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 26/04/05, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com <mailto:> > wrote:
> * To know what version of MediaWiki you're running on, on what platform,
> on what version of PHP/MySQL, and how you've configured it.

Tip: look at Special:Version for this info.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:09:31 +0100
From: "Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Test wiki
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
Message-ID: <d4lhpt$ch1$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >

"Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> > wrote in message
news:d4l1su$6mh$1 at sea.gmane.org...
[snippety-snip]
> The Email notification feature seems to be working OK but there are a
> couple of points which I've noticed:
> * The "You have new messages" banner when my talk page is changed does not

> go away when I read my talk page. Neither does it go away when I edit my
> talk page. It seems to go away only when I click the "Reset all
> notification flags" button on my watchlist: this is *not* expected
> behaviour.

Tried it again, same result.
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:34:15 +0100
From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user
        preference: fully re-arranging the sub-options
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
Message-ID: <d4lj72$hoc$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thomas Gries wrote:
> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen
> on testwiki http://test.leuksman.com

Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.

Now, in the preferences, it says this:

        Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
        email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).

It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a
new authentication e-mail sent to me.

Timwi

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:36:27 +0100
From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
Message-ID: <d4ljb7$hoc$2 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
> My users keep accidentally editing anonymously when they think they're
> logged in; this has gotten so bad that a few of them have asked me to
> disable anonymous edits.  Instead, I wrote the patch below my sig, set
> $wgEnableAnonWarning to true, and put the following in
> MediaWiki:AnonWarning:

I notice when I'm not logged in because the "minor" and "watch this
article" options are missing. Isn't that warning enough?

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:53:38 -0500
From: "Kevin Carillo" <kd_caril at jmsb.concordia.ca <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing
        Wikipedia      "old" table
To: <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <200504261453.j3QErfl5021236 at dillinger.concordia.ca <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

  Hi.

I am a MSc. student in admistration in Montreal, Canada, and am doing my
master's thesis on Wikipedia.

I am having troubles importing the table "old" of wikipedia.

I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and then
concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
 Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not recognize
the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
(by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).

  Has the compression format been officially  changed ?

 Moreover, the uncompressed file has a  final size of only 34,201,462 KB
which is not much bigger than the compressed file. Is that normal?

 Nonetheless, the resulting sql file seems to be readable for it is possible
to import the 'old table' from it. But I don't know whether the file is
complete or not, and whether the old table that I got, will not miss any
record.

I successfully downloaded & installed several times already the english
version of the wikipedia database; but this time, there is something I don't
get.
Could you please indicate me what is wrong in what I am doing, or whether
there has been any change in the procedures to follow?

Thank you.

Kevin Carillo

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:18:54 +0100
From: "Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user
        preference:    fully re-arranging the sub-options
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
Message-ID: <d4llrv$ud2$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >

"Timwi" <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> > wrote in message
news:d4lj72$hoc$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> Thomas Gries wrote:
>> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen on

>> testwiki http://test.leuksman.com
> Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
> that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.

Working fine for me. In fact so well that I have requested a batching
feature :-)

> Now, in the preferences, it says this:
> Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
> email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).
> It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a new
> authentication e-mail sent to me.

I noticed that...so how come I'm getting all those messages?
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:35:45 +0100
From: John Fader <jfader at gmail.com <mailto:> >
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing
        Wikipedia      "old" table
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <42eaa3d0504260835736eb259 at mail.gmail.com <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 4/26/05, Kevin Carillo <kd_caril at jmsb.concordia.ca <mailto:> > wrote:
> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and
then
> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not
recognize
> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>
>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?

Yes.  It was bz2 until very recently, when it was changed to .gz

So clearly you've been unduly confused by an old instruction page -
was it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_dump_import_problems
or something else (either way, we'll need to change it)

--
John Fader

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:43:03 +0100
From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Question about uncompressing and importing
        Wikipedia "old" table
To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
Message-ID: <d4ln89$4ph$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Kevin Carillo wrote:
>   Hi.
>
> I am a MSc. student in admistration in Montreal, Canada, and am doing my
> master's thesis on Wikipedia.
>
> I am having troubles importing the table "old" of wikipedia.
>
> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and
then
> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not
recognize
> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>
>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?

If you hover your mouse over the "old" link, you'll see that it is
indeed supposed to be a gz, not a bzip2.

If you didn't get *any* error message while uncompressing *and* while
importing into your database, then the result is very unlikely to have
any problems such as ommissions or data corruption.

Timwi

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:24:48 +0200
From: "Karl-Otto Kirst" <post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
Subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
To: "Dori" <slowpoke at gmail.com <mailto:> >,  "Wikimedia developers"
        <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <NKEOJILIBNICDGHACNHOKENFCNAA.post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

> > in our ZUM-Wiki we can't make uploads. Trying do make an upload, we get
> > the
> > following message:
> > ---
> > Interner Fehler
> > ...
> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
> >
>
> Check that all the necessary variables/aliases are pointing to the right
> directory.

Thanks. - I've checked all I found in "LocalSettings.php", but didn't find
any helpful. - Could you give me some more idea, where I should look for?

Regards

Karl Kirst

--------------------------------------
post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:>

www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de

Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
--------------------------------------

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:46:58 +0200
From: "Karl-Otto Kirst" <post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
Subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
To: "Rowan Collins" <rowan.collins at gmail.com <mailto:> >, "Wikimedia
developers"
        <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
Message-ID: <NKEOJILIBNICDGHACNHOEENGCNAA.post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

> > ---
> > Interner Fehler
> > ...
> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
> > ---
> >
> > Before we made an update from version 1.3.6 to version 1.4.0,
> we didn't have
> > any problems with uploads.
>
> Hm, it seems to be a permissions problem, but if it worked fine before
> that could only be because you've accidentally reset the permissions
> on the "images" directory. If that's not it, I'll leave it to someone
> who might know better.

My collegue tells me:
The rights on "images" have been on 755, he changed them to 777, but the
error remains.

We don't know, where to look for.

Regards

Karl Kirst

--------------------------------------
post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:>

www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de

Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
--------------------------------------

------------------------------

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Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 48
******************************************


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Tomer Chachamu

subject: [Wikitech-l] (no subject)

body:
On 26/04/05, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> * To know what version of MediaWiki you're running on, on what platform,
> on what version of PHP/MySQL, and how you've configured it.

Tip: look at Special:Version for this info.


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

in_reply_to:
<426EACA4.7080300@yahoo.com> (message from Anthere on Tue, 26 Apr
	2005 23:03:32 +0200)

body:
> by the way ... do you know the differnce between american beer and
> making love in a canoe ?

Yes, and I must confess that it's true.

--
 Sean Barrett     | Me: O Magic 8-Ball, what e-mail
 sean at epoptic.com |     client should I use?
                  | 8-Ball: Outlook not so good.


list: wikien-l

from_name: walter compton

subject: [WikiEN-l] e-mail messages

body:
Could you please delete all these messages that keep showing up in my outlook express page.

                                                Thank you,
                                          Walter Compton.


list: foundation-l

from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] board elections

body:
On 4/26/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> We need to have new elections for the board of directors soon.
 [...]
> Please volunteer!

For those thinking of volunteering to organize these elections, please
see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Election_Official for details on
what this role involves, or
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_requests for details of how
the translations of the elections could be handled.

Thanks.

Angela.


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] board elections


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Anthere wrote:

> Pete/Pcb21 a ?crit:
>
>> Anthere wrote:
>>
>>> But in the afternoon... a beer, or even a little pcb is nice...
>>
>> :-) !
>>
>>> [..]
>>> note...pcb stands for picon citron bi?re...
>>
>> Oh, :-(.
>>
>> Actually PCB is a very versatile little TLA -
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCB
>>
>> Pete/Pcb2
>
> Oh sorry ;-)
>
> French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
> particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
> american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in
> beer making...

"Reasonable" amount depends on your POV.

> by the way ... do you know the differnce between american beer and
> making love in a canoe ?
>
> Anthere

I've heard of the Monty Python similarity (rather than the difference).
They're both fucking close to water.

For Canadians, whom Pierre Berton defined as people who "can make love
in a canoe", drinking American beer would likely not have any effect on
that ability.

Ec


from_name: Phil Boswell

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Test wiki

body:
"Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d4l1su$6mh$1 at sea.gmane.org...
[snippety-snip]
> The Email notification feature seems to be working OK but there are a
> couple of points which I've noticed:
> * The "You have new messages" banner when my talk page is changed does not
> go away when I read my talk page. Neither does it go away when I edit my
> talk page. It seems to go away only when I click the "Reset all
> notification flags" button on my watchlist: this is *not* expected
> behaviour.

Tried it again, same result.
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]


from_name: Tony Sidaway

subject: [WikiEN-l] Let's drop it (was: It is a sign)

body:
Poor, Edmund W said:

>
> Why don't we all agree to refrain from ANY mention of other
> contributors' social skills or (alleged) lack thereof?
>
> I'm willing to follow this rule. How about everyone else?
>

Typical!

No, I couldn't resist, but seriously. Excellent advice.


from_name: Timwi

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user preference:
 fully re-arranging the sub-options

body:
Thomas Gries wrote:
> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen
> on testwiki http://test.leuksman.com

Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.

Now, in the preferences, it says this:

	Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
	email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).

It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a
new authentication e-mail sent to me.

Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning

body:
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
> My users keep accidentally editing anonymously when they think they're
> logged in; this has gotten so bad that a few of them have asked me to
> disable anonymous edits.  Instead, I wrote the patch below my sig, set
> $wgEnableAnonWarning to true, and put the following in
> MediaWiki:AnonWarning:

I notice when I'm not logged in because the "minor" and "watch this
article" options are missing. Isn't that warning enough?


from_name: Delirium

subject: [WikiEN-l] Critics & weak articles

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:

> Personally, all I really want out of a sifter-type process is "this
> has been checked and is not blatantly vandalized or currently an
> active battleground, and the spelling looks okay to me." IMO a sifter
> like this would take a lot of stress off of editors who, rightly or
> wrongly, feel the need to keep a constant watch over articles and
> "fix" them instantly when problems crop up. It would also allow us to
> feel comfortable stamping ten thousand CDs without the fear that the
> database dump was taken at the exact moment a vandal stuck in
> something dreadful that is now immortalized in dimpled aluminium. All
> the standard Wikipedia disclaimers should still apply.
>
> Once we have that, then maybe we can start looking at ways to produce
> an even more rigorously proofed versions that includes fact checking.
> I'm not in a hurry. :)

This sounds like exactly the right approach to me.  What's more, it fits
nicely with the incremental-improvement process we've used so far.
Writing top-quality articles from scratch a la Nupedia turned out to be
fairly hard, but incrementally improving articles has worked quite
well.  Incrementally verifying articles might likewise have some
advantages over trying to make a leap from "this could be anything,
including random vandalism" to "this has been verified by experts in the
field as the Perfect Article".  There's always a risk of *too* much
complication, but a few simple levels of verification, starting with
"this revision is not vandalized, not in the midst of an edit war, and
not obviously glaringly bad", would be nice.

-Mark


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Date Formats

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:
> On 25/04/05, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 4/25/05, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Go to your preferences, click the "Date format" tab, and select your
>>>preferred format.
>>
>>...but only if you're on the English Wikipedia.
>>http://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences has no such option.
>>Would it be feasible to add this feature to other wikis?
>
>
> This is, I believe, coded and coming soon - probably in 1.5, due to go
> "beta" at the beginning of next month. See, for instance:
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2005-March/038490.html
>

Avar's feature only applies to dates generated by MediaWiki, such as in
history or recent changes. DateFormatter is too leet for him ;) Some of
my best work :)

-- Tim Starling


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Conference report from South Africa

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Timwi, if you doubt the accent problem is a real one, you clearly have
> not heard many different accents in your life.

Firstly, you are not exactly helping your credibility by asserting to
know more about my own experiences than I do.

Secondly, what is stopping speakers of various accents from speaking
various articles? Just because an article has already been spoken by a
Brit, doesn't exactly make it impossible for a Singaporean to contribute
*their* version too, if they think the Brit is oh so incomprehensible.

Lastly, you are *definitely* not helping your credibility by asserting
that an automated text-to-speech system would universally be better
received than natural recordings! I can easily understand a wide range
of English accents when they are spoken slowly, but I am afraid that
text-to-speech systems are just painful to listen to.

I therefore highly recommend to fall back to automated text-to-speech
only when a natural recording is not available.


body:
Timwi wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how large and how representative a sample of listeners you
> have already surveyed, but I highly doubt this is a real problem. The
> recordings are obviously supposed to be spoken slowly and clearly.

I guess I shouldn't have said this, because now everyone thinks that
arguing that accents can be mutually unintelligible, is an argument
against natural recordings and for text-to-speech synthesis.


from_name: GerardM

subject: [Wikipedia-l] A place for audio recordings of books/texts?

body:
Hoi,
There is an essential difference between the Commons data and the
Wikisource data. The Commons data has as a restriction that the
content needs to be potentially usefull for one of the Wikimedia
projects.

Images and sounds uploaded to Commons are directly usable in all the
projects. There is no such facility for Wikisource.

When we remove this requirement for usefullness in the projects there
is no longer any restriction for uploading material. We already have
problems with bodyparts on public view. Currently we do not suffer
from fools who upload megabytes of XXX material.

Thanks,
   GerardM

On 4/26/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Erik Moeller <erik_moeller at gmx.de> wrote:
> > However, your case underscores my standing argument that Wikisource and
> > Wikimedia Commons should be merged, since they both serve very similar
> > purposes (repositories of free content), and transformations like yours
> > would be natural in a single repository.
>
> Exactly. Commons should be the resource for all shared media. Text is a major
> form of media.
>
> -- mav
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user preference:
	fully re-arranging the sub-options

body:
"Timwi" <timwi at gmx.net> wrote in message news:d4lj72$hoc$1 at sea.gmane.org...
> Thomas Gries wrote:
>> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen on
>> testwiki http://test.leuksman.com
> Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
> that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.

Working fine for me. In fact so well that I have requested a batching
feature :-)

> Now, in the preferences, it says this:
> Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
> email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).
> It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a new
> authentication e-mail sent to me.

I noticed that...so how come I'm getting all those messages?
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]


from_name: John Fader

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
	"old" table

body:
On 4/26/05, Kevin Carillo <kd_caril at jmsb.concordia.ca> wrote:
> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and then
> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not recognize
> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>
>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?

Yes.  It was bz2 until very recently, when it was changed to .gz

So clearly you've been unduly confused by an old instruction page -
was it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_dump_import_problems
or something else (either way, we'll need to change it)

--
John Fader


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: Question about uncompressing and importing
 Wikipedia "old" table

body:
Kevin Carillo wrote:
>   Hi.
>
> I am a MSc. student in admistration in Montreal, Canada, and am doing my
> master's thesis on Wikipedia.
>
> I am having troubles importing the table "old" of wikipedia.
>
> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and then
> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not recognize
> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>
>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?

If you hover your mouse over the "old" link, you'll see that it is
indeed supposed to be a gz, not a bzip2.

If you didn't get *any* error message while uncompressing *and* while
importing into your database, then the result is very unlikely to have
any problems such as ommissions or data corruption.

Timwi


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] phase3/includes Parser.php, 1.424,
	1.425

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:
> On 25/04/05, Tim Starling <timstarling at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>>Modified Files:
>>        Parser.php
>>Log Message:
>>Cleared $wgLinkHolders after they are used. This fixes bug 1770 and probably improves performance too.
>
>
> This change has the unfortunate side-effect that one can no longer
> replace the link holders from just one part of the page, as this will
> cause all the link targets to be effectively thrown away (with some
> rather amusing effects).
>
> The only place I know that does this is the hack to make links within
> image captions not disappear. This is very hacky at the moment anyway,
> as it uses the $wgParser global from Linker.php, but I'm just about
> done rewriting that code such that that part (i.e. the parsing part)
> will be in Parser.php anyway.
>
> Would it be ugly to add a parameter to switch off this clearing out,
> so that that approach could still be used?
>

As I said on #mediawiki when I was whinging about bug 1770, if a
solution involves globals, it's the wrong solution. I'm not surprised
that my quick hack caused side-effects, but I really hate link table
corruption so I wanted to fix that first.

Perhaps a better solution would be to break up Skin::makeLinkObj() to
the point where a workalike function can be put in Parser with minimal
code duplication. The function in Parser would add link holders to a
Parser member variable, and the Skin::makeLinkObj() would just resolve
links immediately. Skin::makeLinkObj() would mainly be called for
navigation links and special pages.

Note that in 1.5 I have added a LinkBatch class, which makes it easy for
special pages to add batches of links to the link cache with a single DB
query.

-- Tim Starling


body:
Rowan Collins wrote:
> This change has the unfortunate side-effect that one can no longer
> replace the link holders from just one part of the page, as this will
> cause all the link targets to be effectively thrown away (with some
> rather amusing effects).

I've done another quick hack to fix this problem on the live site, it
remains unfixed in CVS, see my previous post for why.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Brion Vibber

references:
<426DE16F.9070309@tgries.de>
	<d4lj72$hoc$1@sea.gmane.org>	<d4llrv$ud2$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<426E71CD.5040208@tgries.de>

body:
Thomas Gries wrote:
> I noticed the same for me: the current code has been butchered by someone.
>
> In the current user preference screen on testwiki as of 26.04.2005 +/-
> 16:45 UTC, I cannot see any input form for the e-mail address - some
> hungry person must have eaten that up

                Your real name? [ Brion Vibber     ]
                    Your email? [ brion at pobox.com  ]
Your nickname (for signatures) [                  ]
             Interface language [ en - English    V]

Looks fine to me. Can you test and clarify the exact circumstances under
which you find it to be missing?

 > ... and the indication ("...not
> yet authenticated...") is incorrect, at least for me, having an
> confirmed address, which is working, or was working.

You may have confirmed it before I changed the confirmation system. Do
it again.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikitech-l] my tale of max_allowed_packet woe

body:
Dan McDonald wrote:
> I'm running a clean install of MySQL 4.0.16-nt on Windows XP SP2, with
> mediawiki 1.4.2 installed and working okay.
>
> c:\WINDOWS\my.ini has the line:
>     set-variable=max_allowed_packet=512M

Is this in the main or mysqld section? Make sure you haven't set this in
the section for one of the supplementary tools.

Try issuing 'show variables' to make sure the value is correctly set.
Note that you only need 16M, not 512M.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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body:
Kevin Carillo wrote:
> 20050421_old_table.sql.gz  ----> around 31 gigabytes
> and
> 20050421_old_table.sql  ----> 34 201 362 bytes (compression factor of around
> 1.1)

That's entirely normal, as stored text in the old table is usually
compressed.

In the current tables, there are three possible states for a row in the
old table.

(default): uncompressed single item. You probably won't find many of
these in the Wikipedia dumps.

gzip: An individual text revision compressed with PHP's gzdeflate()
function, to be uncompressed with PHP's gzinflate() function. These wrap
zlib functions with some specific settings. If you for some reason don't
want to use MediaWiki or PHP to retrieve data from the dump, see Erik
Zachte's stats script for example Perl code.

object: A serialized PHP object which either contains multiple revisions
of a page blobbed and compressed together, or references a particular
row in which this revision can be found blobbed and compressed with
others. This provides a better overall compression ratio in the database
than individual compression. See includes/HistoryBlob.php

gzip and object rows are indicated by the presence of those flags in the
old_flags field.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)

body:
On 4/26/05, Karl-Otto Kirst <post at karl-kirst.de> wrote:

> My collegue tells me:
> The rights on "images" have been on 755, he changed them to 777, but the
> error remains.

I trust he did so recursively on images (chmod -R 777 images), not
just on the root images directory?

--
John Fader


body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
>  > ... and the indication ("...not
>> yet authenticated...") is incorrect, at least for me, having an
>> confirmed address, which is working, or was working.
>
>
> You may have confirmed it before I changed the confirmation system. Do
> it again.

Also, Avar's preferences layout changes incorrectly merged a bad version
of the e-mail confirmation code, which would have badly broken changing
e-mail within preferences and hidden the link to send a new confirmation
code. Fixed now.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Karl-Otto Kirst

subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)

body:
> > in our ZUM-Wiki we can't make uploads. Trying do make an upload, we get
> > the
> > following message:
> > ---
> > Interner Fehler
> > ...
> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
> >
>
> Check that all the necessary variables/aliases are pointing to the right
> directory.

Thanks. - I've checked all I found in "LocalSettings.php", but didn't find
any helpful. - Could you give me some more idea, where I should look for?

Regards

Karl Kirst

--------------------------------------
post at karl-kirst.de

www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de

Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
--------------------------------------


from_name: Henry Tan-Tenn

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: Different community dynamics for this
	Mediterranian Wikipedia

body:
Timwi ti 2005/4/25 ChS 05:02 sia-kong:
> Faraaz Damji wrote:
>
>>Mark Williamson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I imagine that this is the ideal environment for a Wikipedia, because
>>>it is easier to solve problems, I think, when you know all the people
>>>and can discuss issues in person over a latte.
>>
>>Not only that, but you're probably not going to have too many personal
>>attacks.  I'd probably expect a much kinder environment with a plethora
>>of WikiLove prancing happily in the fields ;)
>
>
> Hm. I, on the other hand, am afraid that if a close circle of friends
> does all the work on one whole Wikipedia, it may end up glaringly POV.

That's the downside of it, isn't it?  It's conceivably more difficult to
tell people you know that their edits could be better, particularly if
the power relation outside of Wikipedia is uneven, as in the case of a
student hesitating to revert another's edit, because the latter happens
to be a professor in a nearby university.  In this hypothetical case it
is not so much a clique of friends pushing a POV as extra-Wikipedia
social norms interfering with knowledge sharing.


from_name: Dan McDonald

body:
Hello,
      I'm having problems importing the cur en.wikipedia.org dump into
my local MySQL server.  I get the "max_allowed_packet" problem, but
increasing the value of that variable doesn't fix things for me.  I'm
clearly doing something silly, but can't figure out what.  I'd
appreciate any suggestions anyone may have.

==Details==
I'm running a clean install of MySQL 4.0.16-nt on Windows XP SP2, with
mediawiki 1.4.2 installed and working okay.

c:\WINDOWS\my.ini has the line:
    set-variable=max_allowed_packet=512M

I've restarted the MySQL service since setting the above value.

I downloaded the April 21st cur table dump from
http://download.wikimedia.org/ and tried to load it with the following
command (where mysql and the mysql service run on the same machine):

mysql --max_allowed_packet=512M -u dan -p -D wikidb < 20050421_cur_table.sql

A nerve-wracking 7hrs later I get the (now all too familiar):
ERROR 1153 at line 1323: Got a packet bigger than 'max_allowed_packet'

I can only imagine that somehow the max packet setting isn't being
honoured by someone along the line. Naturally I tried it at the more
modest values suggested by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_dump_import_problems,
but even bumping it up to the (surely insane) heights of 512M didn't
help.

I looked through the .sql file with less and it seems valid and uncorrupted.

Thanks,
Dan McDonald (user:Middenface)


body:
> > ---
> > Interner Fehler
> > ...
> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
> > ---
> >
> > Before we made an update from version 1.3.6 to version 1.4.0,
> we didn't have
> > any problems with uploads.
>
> Hm, it seems to be a permissions problem, but if it worked fine before
> that could only be because you've accidentally reset the permissions
> on the "images" directory. If that's not it, I'll leave it to someone
> who might know better.

My collegue tells me:
The rights on "images" have been on 755, he changed them to 777, but the
error remains.

We don't know, where to look for.

Regards

Karl Kirst

--------------------------------------
post at karl-kirst.de

www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de

Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
--------------------------------------


from_name: Thomas Gries

references:
<426DE16F.9070309@tgries.de> <d4lj72$hoc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<d4llrv$ud2$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Phil Boswell and Timwi wrote

>>Now, in the preferences, it says this:
>>Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
>>email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).
>>It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a new
>>authentication e-mail sent to me.
>>
>>
>
>I noticed that...so how come I'm getting all those messages?
>
I noticed the same for me: the current code has been butchered by someone.

In the current user preference screen on testwiki as of 26.04.2005 +/-
16:45 UTC, I cannot see any input form for the e-mail address - some
hungry person must have eaten that up ... and the indication ("...not
yet authenticated...") is incorrect, at least for me, having an
confirmed address, which is working, or was working.


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Anthere wrote:

> French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
> particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
> american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in
> beer making...

Getting off-topic, but this isn't really true anymore unless you only
look at Budweiser.  The US is now among the world's largest producers of
premium/specialty beers---just California alone produces more
top-quality microbrews than most countries, and if current trends hold,
the US will in not too long produce more Belgian beer than Belgium does.

More information at [[en:Microbrew]] and [[en:List of commercial brands
of beer#USA]] :-)

-Mark


from_name: David 'DJ' Hedley

subject: [WikiEN-l] e-mail messages

body:
Try http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter compton" <waltercompton at sympatico.ca>
To: <WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] e-mail messages

Could you please delete all these messages that keep showing up in my
outlook express page.

                                                Thank you,
                                          Walter Compton.
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: testwiki cvs head: logged-in user name not shown
 any longer in the upper right corner,  "My page"  is shown instead

body:
Erik Moeller wrote:
> I thought that we were moving towards having sections of a page
> dynamically generated and other sections statically cached, using ESI?
> If so, is there any reason not to display the login information?

The problem with ESI is that it first appears in Squid in version 3, and
the problem with Squid 3 is that it's still in development. Progress
towards a beta release has been very slow, see:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=squid-dev&m=111032283701644&w=2

Note that the potential efficiency gains from Special:Mypage and co.
have not actually been implemented, 1.5 still sends anti-squid headers
if you have a session cookie. The problem of preference-dependent HTML
in the content area has also not been addressed, so there's quite a lot
of work to do before these navigation link changes will be useful. A
temporary revert is probably in order.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Board elections

body:
daniwo59 at aol.com a ?crit:
> I would be happy to help out with the Board Elections again.
>
> Danny

oki.
We currently have two candidates.
Anyone else ?

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Board elections


from_name: Andre Engels

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Different community dynamics for this Mediterranian
	Wikipedia

body:
On 4/23/05, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> It's worth noting that when the Dutch wikipedia had their symposium last
> fall, there was a similar effect -- esp. since Waerth came all the way
> from Thailand to be there.

Minor correction: Waerth had already planned to come to the NL (for
the first time in 5 years), and the date of the symposium was chosen
to coincide with that. Doesn't change a iota about the fact that it
was great meeting him (as well as all those others :-) ) in person.

Andre Engels


subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule

body:
Where will the first beta-testing be? I would like to take a look to
see whether/where the bot needs to be adapted (and fill in the odd bug
report too, if I happen to come across something).

Andre Engels

On 4/22/05, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> I'd like to aggressively pursue getting 1.5 finished and out the door so
> we can have a freer hand in setting things up for the coming
> infrastructure changes.
>
> Beta testing will begin on May 1, 2005.
>
> 1.5.0 release will be June 1, 2005.
>
> Any new features need to be either *working* or *disabled in default
> configuration* real soon.


from_name: Alfio Puglisi

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
	"old" - con't

body:
As far as I know, most data in the "old" table is already compressed (and
decompressed on-the-fly when the mediawiki software retrieves it), to save
space on the live server. So it's unlikely that gzipping the resulting
file would reduce its size.

Alfio

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005, Kevin Carillo wrote:

>Thank you for your quick answer.
>I'd like to precise a little more the doubts I have:
>
>20050421_cur_table.sql.gz  ----> 864 108 KB
>and
>20050421_cur_table.sql  ----> around gigabytes (compression factor of around
>3)
>
>BUT
>
>20050421_old_table.sql.gz  ----> around 31 gigabytes
>and
>20050421_old_table.sql  ----> 34 201 362 bytes (compression factor of around
>1.1)
>
>Even though gunzip seemed to have worked well, I am still very suspicious.
>I was expecting an old_table.sql file of around 80 to 90 gigabytes.
>
>I am sorry to insist, but it is very important for my research project to
>have the integrality of the records in the table "old" for I am trying to
>study collaboration processes among wikipedians.
>
>Thank you very much.
>
>Kevin Carillo
>
>
>
>  _____
>
>From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
>[mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
>wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>Sent: April 26, 2005 11:48 AM
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>Subject: Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 48
>Importance: Low
>
>
>Send Wikitech-l mailing list submissions to
>        wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        wikitech-l-request at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>        wikitech-l-owner at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule (Brion Vibber)
>   2. Re: (no subject) (Tomer Chachamu)
>   3. Re: Test wiki (Phil Boswell)
>   4. Re: cvs head version - change of user preference: fully
>      re-arranging the sub-options (Timwi)
>   5. Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning (Timwi)
>   6. Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia      "old"
>      table  (Kevin Carillo)
>   7. Re: cvs head version - change of user preference: fully
>      re-arranging the sub-options (Phil Boswell)
>   8. Re: Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
>      "old" table (John Fader)
>   9. Re: Question about uncompressing and importing Wikipedia
>      "old" table (Timwi)
>  10. AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
>      (Karl-Otto Kirst)
>  11. AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
>      (Karl-Otto Kirst)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 05:10:31 -0700
>From: Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com <mailto:> >
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule
>To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <426E2FB7.7090901 at pobox.com <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>MaPhi Werner wrote:
>> So, out of naivity: how does the process work concerning the
>> incorporation of enhancement patches?
>
>Enhancement patches may or may not get integrated, depending on time,
>interest, code cleanliness, bugginess, etc.
>
>> I continued my work on read-access controlled pages (see
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-March/028105.html
>> for my first approach). The second version abandoned the idea of hiding
>> individual pages and deals with namespaces instead.
>
>Read access restrictions are a really, really low priority. I personally
>have no interest in seeing such a feature in MediaWiki, though others
>might take a crack at your patch.
>
>-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com <mailto:> )
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>Url :
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050426/d42defbf
>/signature-0001.bin
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:07:42 +0100
>From: Tomer Chachamu <the.r3m0t at gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] (no subject)
>To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <9a878c440504260607bce5714 at mail.gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>On 26/04/05, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com <mailto:> > wrote:
>> * To know what version of MediaWiki you're running on, on what platform,
>> on what version of PHP/MySQL, and how you've configured it.
>
>Tip: look at Special:Version for this info.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:09:31 +0100
>From: "Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Test wiki
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>Message-ID: <d4lhpt$ch1$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
>
>"Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> > wrote in message
>news:d4l1su$6mh$1 at sea.gmane.org...
>[snippety-snip]
>> The Email notification feature seems to be working OK but there are a
>> couple of points which I've noticed:
>> * The "You have new messages" banner when my talk page is changed does not
>
>> go away when I read my talk page. Neither does it go away when I edit my
>> talk page. It seems to go away only when I click the "Reset all
>> notification flags" button on my watchlist: this is *not* expected
>> behaviour.
>
>
>Tried it again, same result.
>--
>Phil
>[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:34:15 +0100
>From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user
>        preference: fully re-arranging the sub-options
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>Message-ID: <d4lj72$hoc$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Thomas Gries wrote:
>> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen
>> on testwiki http://test.leuksman.com
>
>Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
>that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.
>
>Now, in the preferences, it says this:
>
>        Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
>        email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).
>
>It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a
>new authentication e-mail sent to me.
>
>Timwi
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:36:27 +0100
>From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>Message-ID: <d4ljb7$hoc$2 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
>> My users keep accidentally editing anonymously when they think they're
>> logged in; this has gotten so bad that a few of them have asked me to
>> disable anonymous edits.  Instead, I wrote the patch below my sig, set
>> $wgEnableAnonWarning to true, and put the following in
>> MediaWiki:AnonWarning:
>
>I notice when I'm not logged in because the "minor" and "watch this
>article" options are missing. Isn't that warning enough?
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:53:38 -0500
>From: "Kevin Carillo" <kd_caril at jmsb.concordia.ca <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing
>        Wikipedia      "old" table
>To: <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <200504261453.j3QErfl5021236 at dillinger.concordia.ca <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
>  Hi.
>
>I am a MSc. student in admistration in Montreal, Canada, and am doing my
>master's thesis on Wikipedia.
>
>I am having troubles importing the table "old" of wikipedia.
>
>I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and then
>concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
>version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
> Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not recognize
>the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
>(by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>
>  Has the compression format been officially  changed ?
>
> Moreover, the uncompressed file has a  final size of only 34,201,462 KB
>which is not much bigger than the compressed file. Is that normal?
>
> Nonetheless, the resulting sql file seems to be readable for it is possible
>to import the 'old table' from it. But I don't know whether the file is
>complete or not, and whether the old table that I got, will not miss any
>record.
>
>I successfully downloaded & installed several times already the english
>version of the wikipedia database; but this time, there is something I don't
>get.
>Could you please indicate me what is wrong in what I am doing, or whether
>there has been any change in the procedures to follow?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Kevin Carillo
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:18:54 +0100
>From: "Phil Boswell" <phil.boswell at gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: cvs head version - change of user
>        preference:    fully re-arranging the sub-options
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>Message-ID: <d4llrv$ud2$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
>
>"Timwi" <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> > wrote in message
>news:d4lj72$hoc$1 at sea.gmane.org...
>> Thomas Gries wrote:
>>> I have some questions re. the current user preferences, as can be seen on
>
>>> testwiki http://test.leuksman.com
>> Speaking of whicht seems that outgoing e-mail is not working properly on
>> that test wiki. I never got my authentication e-mail.
>
>Working fine for me. In fact so well that I have requested a batching
>feature :-)
>
>> Now, in the preferences, it says this:
>> Your email address is not yet authenticated and the advanced
>> email features are disabled until authentication (d.u.a.).
>> It would probably be helpful if this included a direct link to have a new
>> authentication e-mail sent to me.
>
>I noticed that...so how come I'm getting all those messages?
>--
>Phil
>[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:35:45 +0100
>From: John Fader <jfader at gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Question about uncompressing and importing
>        Wikipedia      "old" table
>To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <42eaa3d0504260835736eb259 at mail.gmail.com <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>On 4/26/05, Kevin Carillo <kd_caril at jmsb.concordia.ca <mailto:> > wrote:
>> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and
>then
>> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
>> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not
>recognize
>> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
>> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>>
>>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?
>
>Yes.  It was bz2 until very recently, when it was changed to .gz
>
>So clearly you've been unduly confused by an old instruction page -
>was it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_dump_import_problems
>or something else (either way, we'll need to change it)
>
>--
>John Fader
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:43:03 +0100
>From: Timwi <timwi at gmx.net <mailto:> >
>Subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Question about uncompressing and importing
>        Wikipedia "old" table
>To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>Message-ID: <d4ln89$4ph$1 at sea.gmane.org <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Kevin Carillo wrote:
>>   Hi.
>>
>> I am a MSc. student in admistration in Montreal, Canada, and am doing my
>> master's thesis on Wikipedia.
>>
>> I am having troubles importing the table "old" of wikipedia.
>>
>> I have first downloaded all the dump files (exported on April 21st) and
>then
>> concatenated them (cat ...).The concatenation of the dump files (english
>> version of Wikipedia) has ended up with a file of around 31 gigabytes
>>  Apparently, the compression format has changed for bzip2 does not
>recognize
>> the resulting file as a bz2 one but gunzip is able to uncompress the file
>> (by naming the compressed file old_table.sql.gz).
>>
>>   Has the compression format been officially  changed ?
>
>If you hover your mouse over the "old" link, you'll see that it is
>indeed supposed to be a gz, not a bzip2.
>
>If you didn't get *any* error message while uncompressing *and* while
>importing into your database, then the result is very unlikely to have
>any problems such as ommissions or data corruption.
>
>Timwi
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:24:48 +0200
>From: "Karl-Otto Kirst" <post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
>Subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
>To: "Dori" <slowpoke at gmail.com <mailto:> >,  "Wikimedia developers"
>        <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <NKEOJILIBNICDGHACNHOKENFCNAA.post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> > in our ZUM-Wiki we can't make uploads. Trying do make an upload, we get
>> > the
>> > following message:
>> > ---
>> > Interner Fehler
>> > ...
>> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
>> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
>> >
>>
>> Check that all the necessary variables/aliases are pointing to the right
>> directory.
>
>Thanks. - I've checked all I found in "LocalSettings.php", but didn't find
>any helpful. - Could you give me some more idea, where I should look for?
>
>Regards
>
>Karl Kirst
>
>--------------------------------------
>post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:>
>
>www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de
>
>Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
>--------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:46:58 +0200
>From: "Karl-Otto Kirst" <post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
>Subject: AW: [Wikitech-l] Upload-Problems in Version 1.4.0 (German)
>To: "Rowan Collins" <rowan.collins at gmail.com <mailto:> >, "Wikimedia
>developers"
>        <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:> >
>Message-ID: <NKEOJILIBNICDGHACNHOEENGCNAA.post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:> >
>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> > ---
>> > Interner Fehler
>> > ...
>> > Konnte Datei "/var/tmp/phpt7qzxs" nicht nach
>> > "/htdocs/data/zum/wiki/images/0/0d/Sui.jpg" kopieren.
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Before we made an update from version 1.3.6 to version 1.4.0,
>> we didn't have
>> > any problems with uploads.
>>
>> Hm, it seems to be a permissions problem, but if it worked fine before
>> that could only be because you've accidentally reset the permissions
>> on the "images" directory. If that's not it, I'll leave it to someone
>> who might know better.
>
>My collegue tells me:
>The rights on "images" have been on 755, he changed them to 777, but the
>error remains.
>
>We don't know, where to look for.
>
>Regards
>
>Karl Kirst
>
>--------------------------------------
>post at karl-kirst.de <mailto:>
>
>www.karl-kirst.de / www.schule-und-internet.de
>
>Mitarbeit am ZUM-Wiki: www.zum.de/wiki
>--------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org <mailto:>
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 48
>******************************************
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Sabine Cretella

subject: [Wikitech-l] problem setting up v 1.4 - index.php not found

body:
Not cutting anything as I did not find an answer ...

Now I installed the wiki here:
*http://wesolveitnet.com/arsvitaitalica/index.php?title=Main_Page

starting the installation from the root directory and not where
http://www.ars-vita-italica.com points to works ... strange ...

now when entering the domain how it should be:
http://www.ars-vita-italica.com I receive the following line:
http://ars-vita-italica.com/arsvitaitalica/index.php?title=Main_Page

when I amend this manually to:
http://ars-vita-italica.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
I receive a page that shows the contents of mediawiki, but not the
layout ...

now I think the clue to all this is somewhere in local settings - but
where? sorry, I am not a programmer nor do I normally modify manually
things I don't know enough about. So my question: how can I set up the
wiki definitely in order to have ars-vita-italica.com pointing to the
main page possibly without ever seeing the wesolveitnet.com domain
(which is a domain used for a translator's portal)?

Thanks!

Ciao, Sabine
*
Sabine Cretella wrote:

> Hi, when I try to install my wiki at
>
> http://www.ars-vita-italica.com
>
> I receive this message
> *****
>
>
>  Multiple Choices
>
> The document name you requested (|/config/index.php|) could not be found
> on this server. However, we found documents with names similar to the
> one you requested.
>
> Available documents:
>
>    * /config/index.html
>      <http://www.ars-vita-italica.com/config/index.html> (common
> basename)
>
> Please consider informing the owner of the referring page
> <http://www.ars-vita-italica.com/> about the broken link.
>
> *****
>
> But: index.php  IS there.
>
> Yesterday evening I made some trials and when I modify the directory
> name "config" to "conf" and insert the direct address
>
> http://www.ars-vita-italica.com/conf/index.php
>
> Mediawiki installs, but afterwards it tries to access the Main_Page on
>
> http://www.ars.vita-italica.com/conf/index.php/index.php=....
>
> and of course: this cannot work
>
> Is there someone who had the same experience? What can I do about this?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Ciao, Sabine


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Pete/Pcb21 a ?crit:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> But in the afternoon... a beer, or even a little pcb is nice...
>
>
> :-) !
>
>> [..]
>> note...pcb stands for picon citron bi?re...
>
>
> Oh, :-(.
>
> Actually PCB is a very versatile little TLA -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCB
>
> Pete/Pcb2
> 1

Oh sorry ;-)

French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in beer
making...

....

by the way ... do you know the differnce between american beer and
making love in a canoe ?

Anthere


from_name: Puddl Duk

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
> Delirium a ?crit:
> > Anthere wrote:
> >
> >> French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
> >> particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
> >> american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in
> >> beer making...
> >
> >
> > Getting off-topic, but this isn't really true anymore unless you only
> > look at Budweiser.  The US is now among the world's largest producers of
> > premium/specialty beers---just California alone produces more
> > top-quality microbrews than most countries, and if current trends hold,
> > the US will in not too long produce more Belgian beer than Belgium does.
> >
> > More information at [[en:Microbrew]] and [[en:List of commercial brands
> > of beer#USA]] :-)
> >
> > -Mark
>
> large amounts do not automatically implies a certain quality of
> heavyness... look at german beer ;-)
>
> Well I would be happy to try that out next time I go in California... :-)

I'll put up [[Full Sail Brewing Company]]'s seasonal [[Pilsener]]
against [[Pilsner Urquell]]  any day.

Oh, and thank you Anthere for your tactful opening of this door. It's
an excellent example of  the diplomatic skills required of a board
member.


from_name: Kurt Roeckx

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki and PostgreSQL

body:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 09:19:13AM +0200, Christophe Truffier wrote:
>
> After patching the cvs checkout I've downloaded recently I realize that
> there were some problems because few files are not the same that those
> you use to make this patch, for example config/index.php is in revision
> 1.97 while actual one is ~1.113 IIRC. so I were not able to put this
> part of patch:

I had to change alot of those already, those are ussually easy to
fix.

I still have a few other things to do and hope to find some time
for it soon.

Kurt


from_name: Alphax

body:
Timwi wrote:

> Secondly, what is stopping speakers of various accents from speaking
> various articles? Just because an article has already been spoken by a
> Brit, doesn't exactly make it impossible for a Singaporean to
> contribute *their* version too, if they think the Brit is oh so
> incomprehensible.

Would you like to hear *me* speak something? Just because someone can
write doesn't mean they have a particularly good speaking voice.

> Lastly, you are *definitely* not helping your credibility by asserting
> that an automated text-to-speech system would universally be better
> received than natural recordings! I can easily understand a wide range
> of English accents when they are spoken slowly, but I am afraid that
> text-to-speech systems are just painful to listen to.
>
Yes, they're all disjointed American :)

--
Alphax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] board elections

body:
Anthere, Danny et al.,

I have three requests regarding the organization of this year's election:

1) Translations. We need
- the announcement that people can stand for election, and how
- the 1000 character candidate profiles
- the announcement of the actual vote
to be translated into as many languages as possible. To avoid candidate
bias, a translation of candidate profiles should only be allowed if all
profiles are included.

If Sj is not going to stand, I think he would make an excellent
organizer for this. Getting longer platform statements translated could
remain within an individual candidate's responsibility.

2) I would like the candidate profiles to be displayed *on the voting
page* in the language set in the user preferences. This should be doable
as a hack by putting them in the language files or the MediaWiki
namespace(s); I can write a script to assist with that.

Why? Because this way, voters will not have to seek out information in
their language about who they are voting on, which should lead to a much
better informed choice.

3) Given the growing importance of Wikimedia and the Board, I'd like the
integrity of this election to be closely watched. This should include a
post-election analysis of the data: checking for sock puppets, double
votes on multiple wikis, etc. This could be a collaborative effort. I'd
like to ask the organizers to make this part of their election planning.

I think at least two developers who are not going to stand should serve
as security advisors to the organizers. Let's also carefully define the
requirements for being allowed to vote. This should be done in private
by the organizers and the advisors and published only shortly before the
vote to avoid trickery.

All best,

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections


from_name: Delirium

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Andrew Lih wrote:

>On 4/27/05, Delirium <delirium at hackish.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Anthere wrote:
>>The US is now among the world's largest producers of
>>premium/specialty beers---just California alone produces more
>>top-quality microbrews than most countries, and if current trends hold,
>>the US will in not too long produce more Belgian beer than Belgium does.
>>
>>
>
>As much as I love US microbrews, this is not quite a valid comparison.
>They've produced lots of good pale ales and stouts. However, Chimay,
>Duvel and other Trappist-style beers have a taste and appeal all their
>own that have no equivalent in the States.
>
>
There's actually quite a lot of quite good Trappist-style beers produced
in the U.S., and it's one of the fastest-growing parts of the U.S. beer
industry (since they're expensive beers that command high profit
margins).  Whether they are "equivalent" or not depends on your taste I
suppose.... I've had very good and very bad Belgian-style beer in both
the U.S. and in Belgium.  Probably the easiest to find nationally are
New Belgium Brewery's Abbey ales, but there are at least a dozen or so
others.  Some of Ommergang's beers are also fairly interesting blends of
Belgian yeasts and techniques with American influences.

Err, I suppose this thread isn't about Sanger's memoirs anymore eh?

-Mark


from_name: SPUI

subject: [WikiEN-l] Sister project templates for non-sister projects

body:
Angela wrote:
> For promoting Wikimedia's own projects, the template is more
> justifiable, but even there, I would prefer if this was regarded more
> as meta data than as article content. Generating sister project links
> automatically, or having them as part of the interface rather than the
> article would be far preferable. Anthere made a request in bugzilla
> related to this last year
> (<http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708>).

Eh, I'd prefer that they stay as is - I use them only when there's
useful stuff where I'm linking, like more photos than will fit, or when
there's an official document on Wikisource about the subject of the
article (like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Florida_State_Road_renumbering , which
I really need to get back to).


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
--- Erik Moeller <erik_moeller at gmx.de> wrote:
> It's difficult enough to explain to people the difference between wikis,
> Wikimedia, and MediaWiki. We're not helping our case by using identical
> templates for outside projects. In the case of Wikicities, we especially
> want to avoid this confusion, as Wikicities is a for-profit, and
> Wikimedia is a non-profit.

I agree completely agree and reverted the Wikitravel template back to the
non-box version. The template now creates a standardized external link again.
IIRC, that change is what saved this template from deletion before. I just
tried to do this with the Wikicities template, but failed. Could somebody else
hack that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template%3AWikicities

> My proposal would be to list *free content* websites somewhat
> differently from normal ones, but to not give them a full-blown "sister
> project" type box. For example:
>
> == External links ==
>   ____________________________________
> | [[Free content]] links:            |
> | * Wikitravel                       |
> | * Wikicities                       |
> |____________________________________|

Supporting free content is fine, but whatever is used should be standardized
and not nearly as flashy as our sister project boxes.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: board elections

body:
Erik Moeller a ?crit:
> Anthere, Danny et al.,
>
> I have three requests regarding the organization of this year's election:
>
> 1) Translations. We need
> - the announcement that people can stand for election, and how
> - the 1000 character candidate profiles
> - the announcement of the actual vote
> to be translated into as many languages as possible. To avoid candidate
> bias, a translation of candidate profiles should only be allowed if all
> profiles are included.

Since I complained about that last year, I am not gonna criticise this :-)

> If Sj is not going to stand, I think he would make an excellent
> organizer for this. Getting longer platform statements translated could
> remain within an individual candidate's responsibility.
>
> 2) I would like the candidate profiles to be displayed *on the voting
> page* in the language set in the user preferences. This should be doable
> as a hack by putting them in the language files or the MediaWiki
> namespace(s); I can write a script to assist with that.
>
> Why? Because this way, voters will not have to seek out information in
> their language about who they are voting on, which should lead to a much
> better informed choice.

why not ?
But it will never be translated in all languages. Nevertheless, I have
no opposition to this.

> 3) Given the growing importance of Wikimedia and the Board, I'd like the
> integrity of this election to be closely watched. This should include a
> post-election analysis of the data: checking for sock puppets, double
> votes on multiple wikis, etc. This could be a collaborative effort. I'd
> like to ask the organizers to make this part of their election planning.

I think this was done last year...

Anyway, this requires work... we currently have 4 candidates organisers.
We wait about 24 more hours and will check for each of those. We
probably need more than 2 people, but I will be glad to have Danny
feedback on this.

> I think at least two developers who are not going to stand should serve
> as security advisors to the organizers. Let's also carefully define the
> requirements for being allowed to vote. This should be done in private
> by the organizers and the advisors and published only shortly before the
> vote to avoid trickery.
>
> All best,
>
> Erik

Sure.
I would like to see at least one technical organiser. Anyone ?

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: board elections


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Delirium a ?crit:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
>> particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
>> american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in
>> beer making...
>
>
> Getting off-topic, but this isn't really true anymore unless you only
> look at Budweiser.  The US is now among the world's largest producers of
> premium/specialty beers---just California alone produces more
> top-quality microbrews than most countries, and if current trends hold,
> the US will in not too long produce more Belgian beer than Belgium does.
>
> More information at [[en:Microbrew]] and [[en:List of commercial brands
> of beer#USA]] :-)
>
> -Mark

large amounts do not automatically implies a certain quality of
heavyness... look at german beer ;-)

Well I would be happy to try that out next time I go in California... :-)


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
Ray Saintonge a ?crit:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> Pete/Pcb21 a ?crit:
>>
>>> Anthere wrote:
>>>
>>>> But in the afternoon... a beer, or even a little pcb is nice...
>>>
>>>
>>> :-) !
>>>
>>>> [..]
>>>> note...pcb stands for picon citron bi?re...
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, :-(.
>>>
>>> Actually PCB is a very versatile little TLA -
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCB
>>>
>>> Pete/Pcb2
>>
>>
>> Oh sorry ;-)
>>
>> French people do drink a reasonable amount of beer per year... in
>> particular belgium beer which is really tasty. Little comparison with
>> american beer... I actually graduated from a school specialised in
>> beer making...
>
>
> "Reasonable" amount depends on your POV.
>
>> by the way ... do you know the differnce between american beer and
>> making love in a canoe ?
>>
>> Anthere
>
>
> I've heard of the Monty Python similarity (rather than the difference).
> They're both fucking close to water.
>
> For Canadians, whom Pierre Berton defined as people who "can make love
> in a canoe", drinking American beer would likely not have any effect on
> that ability.
>
> E
> c

valuable second comment... :-)


body:
There are now at least two templates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template%3AWikitravel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template%3AWikicities

that point to projects that are not operated by the Wikimedia
Foundation, but which look exactly like Wikimedia Sister Project templates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3ASister_projects

Both the Wikitravel and Wikicities template are used on lots of pages.

It's difficult enough to explain to people the difference between wikis,
Wikimedia, and MediaWiki. We're not helping our case by using identical
templates for outside projects. In the case of Wikicities, we especially
want to avoid this confusion, as Wikicities is a for-profit, and
Wikimedia is a non-profit.

I recall that the Wikitravel template was listed for deletion, with the
rationale that regular external links should be used, but there were too
many Wikitravel fans opposed to it to get through. The Wikicities
template would likely meet a similar fate.

So we need a better solution to make it clear that these are not
Wikimedia projects.

My proposal would be to list *free content* websites somewhat
differently from normal ones, but to not give them a full-blown "sister
project" type box. For example:

== External links ==
  ____________________________________
| [[Free content]] links:            |
| * Wikitravel                       |
| * Wikicities                       |
|____________________________________|

Where the box symbolizes a different background color. But that's just
the first thing I can think of - other ideas would be welcome as well.

Note that I would classify "non-commercial only" licenses as non-free.
There should at least be theoretical compatibility with Wikipedia.

All best,

Erik


from_name: Angela

body:
A simple text link in the external links section of a page would
generally be more appropriate than a box or template. We already have
policies regulating the addition of external links to articles, and
these should be applied to Wikicities and Wikitravel in the same way
that they are to any other site. Just because something is free
content, or hosted on a wiki, doesn't mean we should give these sites
any special consideration when deciding what is actually useful as
part of an article.

I feel Wikipedia has way too many of these boxes already, and we need
to make sure these don't proliferate by allowing any free content site
to add their link in this proposed box if that link is not useful to
readers of that article.

For promoting Wikimedia's own projects, the template is more
justifiable, but even there, I would prefer if this was regarded more
as meta data than as article content. Generating sister project links
automatically, or having them as part of the interface rather than the
article would be far preferable. Anthere made a request in bugzilla
related to this last year
(<http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708>).

Angela

--
Angela Beesley
Wikicities.com


from_name: Phil Sandifer

subject: [WikiEN-l] BAn

body:
The more interesting question, to me, is why you've come back again to
a list that has made it clear that you're not wanted. I'd respond to
the rest of your e-mail, but it was sufficiently incoherent.

Well, except for the part of there being no explanation. Perhaps you
haven't noticed the general explanation for your sanction. See, you
write abusive messages both via e-mail and on Wikipedia. You delete or
yell at any attempts to discuss your behavior with you. You were given
a chance to reflect and reform by Jimbo. You proceeded to launch more
personal attacks, and the arbcom, to their credit, only gave you a
three month ban anyway.

Instead of backing off and recognizing that you've been pissing people
off, and that you're the only one who sees what's happened to you as a
grave injustice, you went to the mailing list and began sending
incoherent screeds. When you got banned, again, you failed to recognize
that there was a point that you could get, and you returned.

And I'm sure, if you respond to this, it'll be with a flame. But, hell,
why not try again. The simple fact of what's been going wrong for you
is that your inability to take any clue, whether mildly or bluntly
phrased, and recognize that your behavior is inappropriate. The fact
that your reactions to these clues is to behave inappropriately
aggravates the situation.

But if you want to, you know, get and stay unbanned, not repeating the
behavior that got you banned would be a wise start.

-Snowspinner

On Apr 27, 2005, at 6:13 AM, John Bradley wrote:

> Why have you banned me from the mailing list again.
>
> Of course with no explanation. Just a continuation of the high kacking
> of
> wikipedia by fools and idiots. Who are quety happy to pervert the
> system to
> there won ends.
>
> There in general cowardly actions are hidden behind a human sheild of
> wikipedia users.
>
> Interms of social skills what does it say about someone who annony
> mously		Yours
>
> 		John Bradley
>
> Loc: 	Flat 15/22 Gambier Terrace, Liverpool, L1 7BL, UK.
> Phone:	+44 (0)151 708 7238
> Email:  john at ontobus.co.uk
> WWW:	www.ontobus.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: James R. Johnson

body:
I'd agree.  Just merge the commons into wikisource (or vice versa), and have
the en. or de. or la.wikisource.org (or wikicommons.org) for the interface,
but have files across the entire source/commons.  It'd make it easier for a
speaker of one language to access files across the commons/source in his own
language, but still have access to all the data available (I heard it was
somewhere around 4 to 5 GB now).

The biggest problem then with the language domains would be duplication of
efforts, which should no doubt be avoided.

If you'd like help, Stephen, I can help with some audio recordings (at least
in wav for conversion by someone) of some texts, and perhaps text entry.

James
-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Erik Moeller
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:56 AM
To: Stephen Forrest; wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] A place for audio recordings of books/texts?

Hello Stephen,

your project sounds very interesting, I hope to see (hear) some results
soon!

The Wikimedia Commons is indeed the correct place, and your "Con" for it
is not a Con at all:

> Con: Unsure if it's appropriate for this.  Commons is intended for
> shared media resources across Wikimedia projects, and I can't see how
> (for example) the Catalan Wiktionary would need an audio version of
> Chapter 7 of Wuthering Heights.

A file on the Commons currently needs to be *potentially* useful in at
least *one* Wikimedia context. Your files could be linked from
Wikisource, but also from Wikibooks and Wikipedia.

Generally, if it's a file, and it's free content, it belongs in the
Wikimedia Commons so it can be easily used everywhere.

However, your case underscores my standing argument that Wikisource and
Wikimedia Commons should be merged, since they both serve very similar
purposes (repositories of free content), and transformations like yours
would be natural in a single repository.

Regards,

Erik
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] Profanity discouraged

body:
John,

If you can't refrain from profanity and other expressions of hostility
on this mailing list, I will ask the admins to put you on "filter
probation" for a few days.

If they do this, it will mean that an admin will review each of your
messages and either edit out the offending portions before passing the
message on, or mark it up and send it back to you for correction, or
merely delete it.

We don't like to do this, but we also don't like being called dirty
names.

Please think this over, and choose your next step accordingly.

Ed Poor


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Text to speech (Was: Conference report
	from	SouthAfrica)

body:
David 'DJ' Hedley wrote:

>I agree bar the major con of name pronunciation. Even taking your own
>surname - Rabagliati; how many computers could pronounce that correctly?
>Also, implementing automatic audio conversion would presumably slow down
>Wikipedia considerably.
>
When it comes to that surname the Olympic gold medalist with that name
made us aware that it is pronounced as though the "ag" were not in the name.

Ec


subject: [Wikitech-l] privacy policy

body:
--- Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Could we envision putting a little link at the bottom of all pages to go
> to our privacy policy ?

Would be real nice to have a contact us link at the bottom of each page as
well. Might be easiest to just have a [[MediaWiki:Footermessage]] page and have
each wiki decide what to put in there (more than one link could be put in, such
as [[Privacy policy]] ? [[Contact us]] ? [[Terms of use]]).

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikitech-l] privacy policy

body:
--- Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> What would the purpose be of this link to our privacy policy be?? How
> would it enhance the "user experience" ?? In my opinion a link to this
> policy on the login/logoff page would be a good place to have this link.

Readers need a privacy policy as well. We could log what pages they visit and
potentially give that info to whoever - something I?m sure most readers would
not want us to do.

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] E-R db schema

body:
ettore di cesare wrote:
> Where can I find the ER schema used to mysql db in mediawiki?

What's an ER schema?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wiki status / upgrade schedule

body:
James R. Johnson wrote:
> I was making some edits on ang: and was wondering.when is the upgrade to
> MediaWiki 1.5?

At various points in May.

>  And what's up with the wikis right now?

In what way?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: John Bradley

subject: [WikiEN-l] It is a sign.

body:
Seems the list is run by " ultrablue at gmail.com, dgerard at gmail.com,
andrew.lih at gmail.com, fennec at gmail.com, ed.poor at att.net" WHo have
no problem manipulating the user base.

Interestingly I haven't seen any sign of there explanation of for hat matter
anything else. Seems a but antisoial to me.

Check Violet Rigas mod to the "Grand National", for her own reasons she
has decide it is in Liverpool. WHen actually due to little things like
boroughs etc it is actualy in Sefton.

You can check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incid
entArchive1#3RR_at_the_troubled_Clitoris_article

"

Her is a typical rant fro
John Bradley (john at ontobus.co.uk) [050423 00:50]:

> I think it is everyone who cares about Wikipedia as an encyclopedia
> rather than a social club stepped forward and be counted.

Personal attacks toward other editors are not tolerated because they drive
other volunteers away from editing. This is bad for Wikipedia.

Really. I pretty much don't care how much of an expert a given editor is -
if they're acting like an arsehole and making editing an unpleasant
experience for others, we don't need them. There are PLENTY of really
quite high-grade experts editing Wikipedia who don't in fact act like
arseholes.

(This does, however, require a more than usual tolerance for and patience
with stupid fellow volunteers amongst the experts in question, and
occasional annoying having to prove things from first principles on talk
pages when the well-meaning idjit doesn't get it. This is quite a bit less
than ideal, and we need ways to deal with it, but it still isn't an excuse
for personal attacks.)

Note that Irate, the user in question, has not shown even this level of
justification for his streams of personal attacks.

- d.
"
.

As for my address. I thnk you should stop worrying less.

Date sent:      	Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:07:01 +0930
From:           	Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com>
Subject:        	Re: [WikiEN-l] It is a sign.
To:             	English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Send reply to:  	English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
	<mailto:wikien-l-request at Wikipedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
	<mailto:wikien-l-request at Wikipedia.org?subject=subscribe>

> John Bradley wrote:
>
> >Perhaps you can explain why I am required to act in this way but not the
> >likes of Violet Riga, Matt Crypto or lots of other people.
> >
> >
> >
> They are too. Do you have examples of when they have done this?
>
> >My annoyance started when Violet Riga got me blocked on a totally
> >spurious request and has both not been punished and has nor apologized.
> >It is referenced earlier on, in the thread.
> >
> >
> >
> Which one?
>
> >I am quiet happy to have all my stuff up there provided other peoples is
> >subject to the same conditions, but that does not seem to be the case.
> >
> >
> >
> I'd like to see some of these violations.
>
> >For instance I am chastised for not replying to people were as David
> >Gerrard and most of the members of the arbcomm feel that they do not
> >have to reply.
> >
> >
> >
> Sorry, can't answer that without a reference.
>
> >Or for instance why Pcpcpc would use a sock puppet to perform edits of
> >extremely dubious quality and then not explain why he acted the way he
> >did.
> >
> >
> >
> Unfortunately tracking sockpuppets is quite difficult. Can you provide a
> diff?
>
> >As for spam, the address is on several WWW sites as a contact so it is
> >virtually impossible to make it worse and Spamihilator seems up to the job.
> >I've also had this email for about 15 years now, which also means it is well
> >known.
> >
> >
> >
> My concern about your address is about your *residential* address.
>
> >You'll find I have used a spell checker but there is no guarantee that word
> >correctly spelt is the right word.
> >
> >
> >
> Spell checkers are notoriously innaccurate. They also can't check grammar.
>
> --
> Alphax
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
> There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

		Yours

		John Bradley

Loc: 	Flat 15/22 Gambier Terrace, Liverpool, L1 7BL, UK.
Phone:	+44 (0)151 708 7238
Email:  john at ontobus.co.uk
WWW:	www.ontobus.co.uk


subject: [WikiEN-l] BAn

body:
Why have you banned me from the mailing list again.

Of course with no explanation. Just a continuation of the high kacking of
wikipedia by fools and idiots. Who are quety happy to pervert the system to
there won ends.

There in general cowardly actions are hidden behind a human sheild of
wikipedia users.

Interms of social skills what does it say about someone who annony
mously		Yours

		John Bradley

Loc: 	Flat 15/22 Gambier Terrace, Liverpool, L1 7BL, UK.
Phone:	+44 (0)151 708 7238
Email:  john at ontobus.co.uk
WWW:	www.ontobus.co.uk


subject: [WikiEN-l] It is a sign.

body:
As for one of the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:82.35.37.118&action=history

		Yours

		John Bradley

Loc: 	Flat 15/22 Gambier Terrace, Liverpool, L1 7BL, UK.
Phone:	+44 (0)151 708 7238
Email:  john at ontobus.co.uk
WWW:	www.ontobus.co.uk


from_name: Andy Rabagliati

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Text to speech (Was: Conference report from South
	Africa)

references:
<8b722b80050423184774effb47@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4h1jq$e3m$1@sea.gmane.org> <20050425122624.GH3923@wizzy.com>
	<d4jkgc$om3$1@sea.gmane.org> <d4ll7k$rhc$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005, Timwi wrote:

> I guess I shouldn't have said this, because now everyone thinks that
> arguing that accents can be mutually unintelligible, is an argument
> against natural recordings and for text-to-speech synthesis.

I am glad you brought it up, as I believe it needs to be addressed.

When Atlanta Airport (Georgia) opened, with automated trains taking you
out to the terminals, there was a requirement for public announcements
telling you which terminal, stand clear, departing now, etc.

They started out with a pleasant local (Georgian) accent.

Complaints - sounded too provincial, International passengers, etc.

They changed it to a female announcer.

Complaints - people didn't pay enough attention, what was wrong with the
previous one, etc.

They have ended up with an assertive, metallic, computer voice.

No complaints.

Things pro text to speech :-

* Immediately works with all Wikipedia content.
* No problems with editing.
* Uniformity, even if it is uniformly poor ..

I will leave the pro natural speech argument to others - after preparing
my flame-proof underwear :-) I would also welcome input from people for
whom English is not a first language.

Cheers,    Andy!


from_name: Jack Lutz

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wiki status / upgrade schedule (to Brion)

body:
David 'DJ' Hedley wrote:

>Every message I get off you arrives empty with an attachment which appears
>to be a virus. Whether or not this is the case for everyone, I do not know.
>
I notice that Outlook Express does that, but Thunderbird displays his
message inline.


from_name: Andrew Lih

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Sanger's memoirs

body:
On 4/27/05, Delirium <delirium at hackish.org> wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
> The US is now among the world's largest producers of
> premium/specialty beers---just California alone produces more
> top-quality microbrews than most countries, and if current trends hold,
> the US will in not too long produce more Belgian beer than Belgium does.

As much as I love US microbrews, this is not quite a valid comparison.
They've produced lots of good pale ales and stouts. However, Chimay,
Duvel and other Trappist-style beers have a taste and appeal all their
own that have no equivalent in the States.

I have a relative who used to be brewmaster at one of Budweiser's
plants in the US. Needless to say, we don't talk much to that side of
the family.

-User:Fuzheado