from_name: Bence Damokos

subject: [Commons-l]  CommonsDelinker

body:
"and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain" [copied
from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]

What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem inactive?
Was there a decision to stop it?

Bence Damokos
huwiki

On 11/17/06, Cool Cat <wikipedia.kawaii.neko at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe that is not happening due to technical limitations. Currently we
> just subst: current day/month/year. I would like that though.
>
> It takes longer than 7 days because there are WAY too many of them to
> delete and unlinking them is sometimes a serious pain (pd-soviet images are
> particularly cluttering the backlog)
>
> PS (unrelated): Magnus your tool has issues with .gif images I believe. I
> do not know if you fixed this recently.
> PS (unrelated): If your tool would detect "http" (possible source) and
> treated such images differently it would be of great help since sometimes
> people forget to remove the no source template. (sometimes it is a hunt to
> find a url in a block of text on the tool)
>
> On 11/15/06, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > When I just read about admins getting scolded for deleting an image
> > that was long past its "due date", I thought about the nature of the
> > templates and the message they convey.
> >
> > Currently, they say something like "this image needs more source info"
> > etc., and give the date the template was added. If nothing changes,
> > the image *may* be deleted after, what, a month? This would be the
> > equivalent of "best before" - in reality, it might last a lot longer
> > than that.
> >
> > What if the attitude of the templates were changed? "This image lacks
> > this and that. It will be deleted on XXXX-YY-ZZ unless this
> > information is provided." My tool [2] can be used to find images that
> > have reached their final use-by date, and could be deleted with good
> > reason.
> >
> > Theoretically, one could write a bot which could do the deletions, so
> > no admins get scolded. The idea of a deletion-bot with admin rights (a
> > virtual equivalent of [2];-) might sound scary, but setting it for "no
> > edits for a month since addition of the template", combined with the
> > image resurrection capability, should calm this.
> >
> > Magnus
> >
> >
> > [1] http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/bad_old_ones.php<http://tools.wikimedia.de/%7Emagnus/bad_old_ones.php>
> > [2]
> > http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/samsung_develops_machine_gun_sentry_robot_costs_200k.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Commons-l mailing list
> > Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>
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list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Nick Jenkins

subject: [Wikitech-l] On style sheets

body:
> What is suggested is having test site(s) which show the actual content
> from the main sites.
>
> There's a couple possible ways to handle this:
>
> 1) Have a read-write copy that periodically repopulates its dataset from
> a live site. Probably pretty safe.
>
> 2) Have a read-only configuration pulling live data from the live
> database on the main server. Hopefully safe if no information-leakage
> bugs, but less to test.
>
> 3) Have a read-write configuration using live data with alternate new
> code. Potentially very unsafe.
>
> For instance we could have copies of, say, English and German Wikipedia
> that refresh the current-version data each week.
>
> The question then is frequency of code updates.

You could have a system like the Debian folks have, with a progression from Unstable -> Testing -> Stable for any software. (Except
retaining the current continuous integration approach, to prevent the huge gaps between stable releases that have occurred in
Debian).

For the first line of defence, how about Option 2), with automated rollout of the latest SVN whenever there have been no commits in
the last 2 hours? And *maybe* error_reporting set to E_ALL (just for this read-only test site) with errors either echoed to the
browser or echoed onto #mediawiki (so that problems are easy to spot, and hopefully easy to fix, as "given enough eyeballs, all bugs
are shallow").

That would have caught the original style thing; it also provides a safety valve so that anything clearly malicious or dangerous can
be caught, and reverted within the 2 hours; once set up it hopefully requires minimal or no manual intervention; it's relatively
safe; and by printing out warnings it makes any errors more obvious before review and scap.

Then optionally, there could be Timwi's proposed beta-user site, in read-write mode, with live data. Getting the software onto this
site would require a review, just as per currently. Then once the software has been used a bit there, it could be rolled out onto
the cluster. This has the benefit that any major problems impact a smaller group of people, and the people it does impact have
self-selected to be beta testers. Beta sites could be restricted to say the English and German Wikipedias, to keep it manageable.

Essentially the flow of software at the moment I think looks something like this:

+-----+               +---------+              +----------+
|     |    review     | test.wp |     * copy   | cluster, |
| SVN | -- and    --> | r/w but | --- from --> | r/w real |
|     |    scap       | no data |     NFS      | data     |
+-----+               +---------+              +----------+
   ^                                                |
   |                                                /
    ---  fix created  <-----  probs found   <------

What if it were something like this:

                       Unstable            Testing/Beta               Stable
+-----+              +---------+          +-----------+            +----------+
|     |    * 2 hrs   | read-   |  review  | Guinea    |   % no big | cluster, |
| SVN | -- w/ no --> | only WP | -- & --> | Pig r/w   |-- probs -->| r/w real |
|     |    change    | mirror  |   scap   | real data |   found    | data     |
+-----+              +---------+          +-----------+            +----------+
   ^                          |                  |
   |                          V                  /
    ---  fix created  <--  probs found   <-------

* = no or very limited manual intervention required.

% = The trick here is to find a way to get the "no big probs found" rollout step done without creating a lot of extra work, so as to
make it practical. The code has already been reviewed at this point, so the only question is "have the beta testers reported any new
regressions?" - if the answer is yes, then you block until the answer is no, and if the answer is no, then you roll out to the
cluster. There also needs to be enough time for problems to be found (e.g. 1 or 2 days), and it has to be clear to the beta testers
how to report problems (e.g. do they log bugs / mail wikitech-l / post at village pump technical / something else).

> That sort of thing is why we abandoned that development model and moved
> to continuous integration, with smaller changes going live pretty
> quickly and being tuned.

Continuous integration works; no reason to stop using it. The above just lets problems be found sooner (by adding a smoke test
step), and with an impact on fewer people (by adding a beta-tester step).

All the best,
Nick.


list: wikien-l

from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
I've just come across
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Community_sanction

I think this is a pretty awful idea.  This is an extrapolation of the
concept of a community ban that has no basis in logic.  The concept
behind a "community ban" is not "rough consensus", as shown by an 80%
vote or whatever exists nowadays, but unanimity among admins -- not
one admin out of >1000 being prepared to unblock you.  People seem to
have got hold of the idea that a "rough consensus" is good enough
here.  It isn't.  An ArbCom case is needed when there isn't unanimity
among the community.

So much for consensus leading to "community bans".  This is made ten
times worse, however, with the introduction of "community sanctions"
as part of official policy.  This kind of thing may happen -- an admin
might say to a user "keep away from Scientology articles, or I'll take
you to ArbCom", and this (especially with the problem user's assent)
would have the same effect.  However, as a formalised process it is
awful.  It lends itself to people behaving without sufficient
oversight or rigidity of purpose and it will be abused and open our
dispute resolution process to even more criticism (some of which
really is deserved).

This is not to say that the concept is totally flawed -- I have
outlined above how the same effects can be had on a less formal level
without this policy, declared as such without sufficient reasoning or
indeed any justification from a public discussion (correct me if I'm
wrong...).

--
Sam


list: foundation-l

from_name: shi zhao

subject: [Foundation-l] wikimedia blocked again in China

body:
wikimedia blocked again in China. see Andrew report:
http://www.andrewlih.com/blog/2006/11/16/wikipedia-inaccessible-for-many-in-china-for-now/

my guess(Chinese): http://talk.blogbus.com/logs/2006/11/3847006.html

from Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu's Regular Press Conference
on November 16 2006 :
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/xwfw/s2510/2511/t280600.htm

"Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
comment?

A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned. The
Chinese Government supports and promotes the development of the
internet. By 2005, China's internet subscribers reached over 123
million, and the number of Chinese websites 788 thousand. China has
become the second largest internet user of the world. China
administrates internet in accordance with law. This is also the usual
practice by all the countries in the world. "

--
Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/
My blog: http://talk.blogbus.com
CNBlog: http://blog.cnblog.org/weblog.html
Social Brain: http://www.socialbrain.org/default.asp
cnbloggercon: http://www.cnbloggercon.org/

[[zh:User:Shizhao]]


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: Bryan Derksen

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<9brrl29veehqk02on04e0eligiu1vu407m@4ax.com>
	<cbffa3750611171351l4b9ebee8j4b23e8fcb8bfc7c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bhsl256hej8v3t9sje7a7umfceurd53tk@4ax.com>
	<fbad4e140611171600u5078f4ack4ee4f2965613ad44@mail.gmail.com>
	<455E5128.50003@gmail.com>

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> David Gerard wrote:
> <snip>
>> The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot.
>
> They should be banned.

Ah, so _that's_ what "community sanction" means.

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list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Liviu Andronic

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] POV-push on meta by admin User:Millosh in policy
	draft

body:
On 11/15/06, GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> Calling the difference between Cyrillic script and Latin script anything
> but
> significant is brain dead.

There is a difference between script and orthography. Moldovan Cyrillic
script and Romanian Latin script
are definitely different. While their orthography, hardly (from
Merriam-Webster: "the art of writing words with the proper letters according
to standard usage"). Standard usage is identical (almost) in both cases.

> What Millosh wrote on Meta about Moldovan is something that I would
> support.
> I expect that the language subcommittee supports it as well.

1. "nation/ethnicity not well established, in the
>
> process of assimilation with Romanian nation"
>
> Try to tell nowadays
to a Moldovan (statistically average Moldovan) that he is becoming
more and more Romanian day-by-day. I'd be amused to observe his or her
reaction..

My brief remarks,
Liviu


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

subject:
[Wikitech-l] New TLD? (was: How to enable Template:Languages
	functionality)

body:
On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 02:17:46AM +0800, Tian-Jian Barabbas Jiang at Gmail wrote:
> http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/Template:Languages

So, who wants to petition ICANN to start the .pedia TLD?

Cheers,
-- jr 'http://en.wiki.pedia' a
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

	"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
	  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_


from_name: Andrew Lih

body:
On 11/17/06, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2006/11/17, Dariusz Siedlecki <datrio at gmail.com>:
> > On 11/17/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > shi zhao wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > "Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
> > > > censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
> > > > comment?
> > > >
> > > > A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned.
> > >
> > > What, they don't know that we exist?
> >
> > I think he ment "I'm not aware that we unblocked it". That would prove
> > my theory, that the unblocking was an accident :(.
> >
>
> It's funny that just two days ago, the largest Polish newspaper
> "Gazeta Wyborcza" has announced that Wikipedia is unblocked in China:
>
> http://gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,33181,3739338.html
>
> and they have written that it is good example that "hard-talks" w
> China goverment may give good results....

Sigh.

Yes it's stories like that and from Reporters Sans Frontiers that can
be frustrating - gloating that you can press China to change if you
push hard enough is not exactly a friendly tactic. In fact, it may be
counterproductive.

-Andrew


from_name: Jamie Wilkinson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Students conducting a Wikipedia usage survey

body:
I'm part of a team in a management & organizational analysis at the
Stern School of Business at New York University. We selected
Wikipedia as the subject of our final analysis, and are specifically
interested in what drives people to participate in Wikipedia. To this
end we've compiled an anonymous, 5-minute survey that we hoped the
Wikipedia community would take part in, everyone from casual readers
to editors to members of the Board.

It's available online at <http://tramchase.com/wikipedia-survey>

Please be as detailed as possible. Your participation is much
appreciated!

Thanks,
-jamie


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Rethinking Fictional Topics

body:
"Phil Sandifer" wrote

> This is not, to my mind, a bias towards Wikia, but towards free
> content in general. I think it is perfectly reasonable for us to
> provide prominant links to other free content resources - particularly
> ones that cover substantially different types of material from
> Wikipedia.

The 'general interwiki' problem used to be unsolved.

I imagine it still is. I mean, the general thought of integrating wikis into some sort of uber-structure. The way WP handles its own inter-language and other links is exemplary for not being fussy, and for ensuring that interwiki links number in tens of millions.

But it sounds as if it is beginning to be more pressing, to revisit the older issue.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software
Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Foundation-l] Rules committee

body:
David Gerard wrote:

>On 16/11/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Ray Saintonge wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I would llike to propose a Rules Committee on the following bases.
>>>
>>>
>>I have to disagree with the initial openness. We have too many process
>>wonks who would jump at the chance, and we'll end up only being allowed
>>to edit every second thursday when it's a prime number of days from the
>>vernal equinox of Triton...
>>
>>
>Proposal: a Rules Elimination Committee. They can only remove rules,
>not put through new ones.
>
Getting rid of exzcessive rules was certainly a motivating factor in my
proposal/

Ec


subject: [Foundation-l] Rules committee


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] [OT?] Wanna infiltrate Britannica? Here's your chance

body:
On 17/11/06, Mathias Schindler <mathias.schindler at gmail.com> wrote:

Hah. We should get Britannica to infiltrate Wikipedia. They could
subtly put in lots of high-quality edits ...

- d.


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [Wikitech-l] Geohack

body:
Jens Frank wrote:
<snip>
> - I'm not sure how good the search for nearby places will scale. MySQL
>   has no proper spatial index. The pseudo-index I added will work for
>   smaller sites, but Wikipedia might kill this.
>

Skiplist? Hashtable? How hard are they to use an SQL database as the
backend for?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject:
[Wikitech-l]
	Labeled	SectionTransclusion	(need	feedbackoncurrentstatus!)

body:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
>> Oh, I guess \Q doesn't work with variables like in perl; good to
>> know. When I changed that to preg_quote(), those errors when away,
>> so now it works with a section called "/".
>>
>> Thanks again -Steve
>
> Thank you!
>
> Checked into SVN in r17736. Only tiny changes made were to add the
> '$wgParserTestFiles[] = ' line (which invokes the LST tests whenever
> parserTests is run and the extension is enabled), and update the
> format of the header line in the "Transcluded section headings create
> edit link to template" test to match the header format used in SVN
> head (which differs slightly from that used in 1.8 and earlier).
>

So, when/where can we see it in action? On the testwiki?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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list: commons-l

from_name: Cary Bass

subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
-----Original Message-----
From: commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org]On Behalf Of Bence Damokos
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 AM
To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
Subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

  "and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain" [copied
from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]

  What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem inactive?
Was there a decision to stop it?

  Bence Damokos
  huwiki

The truth is that the creator of the CommonsDelinker, OrgulloMoore, has
gotten very busy with other things and has not had time to manage it.

Cary Bass
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from_name: Aphaia

subject:
[Foundation-l] RfC: Mission & Vision Statements of the
	Wikimedia Foundati

body:
On 11/17/06, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Brianna Laugher wrote:
> > On 17/11/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>Wouldn't this be a good time to expand on specific visions for each of
> >>>the projects? If not here, then where? Nowhere? Or each community can
> >>>come up with its own?
> >>
> >>Yes. Please develop charters for each project.
> >>
> >>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charte_Wikiquote_FR
> >
> >
> > OK. I wasn't aware of this, but I think it's a great idea.
> >
> > By 'project' do we mean Wikiquote (all languages) or French Wikiquote, though?
>
> Wikiquote.

Thanks for your clarification. To develop such, one possible problem
may be that Wikiquote community international has no global discussion
place (except Metapub, but I wonder how many Wikiquoters know that).
There is #wikiquote though, aiming to be such, but it is deserted.
Perhaps since the language division in 2004, Wikiquote lost such a
global discussion place.

There are some discussions and proposed detailed mission statements on
English Wikiquote by JeffQ. I am sure English Wikiquote community
support those, but not sure if the global Wikiquote community, since
we haven't discuss such yet.

Wikiquote as Wikimedia project has no dedicated mailinglist as far as
I know. Once I proposed that, most of Wikiquoters were doubtful if we
needed such. But if we are going to have global charter and should, we
indeed need such for now?

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


from_name: Marco Schuster

subject: [Wikitech-l] Different sysop levels

body:
Steve Sanbeg schrieb:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:15:21 -0500, Simetrical wrote:
>
>> On 11/16/06, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
>>> Marco Schuster wrote:
>>>> David Gerard schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>> What's the reason for not everyone having rollback? What would happen
>>>>> if everyone who'd had an account for a few days could use it?
>>>> because vandals will register with a "normal" nick, wait the few days
>>>> and then they can easily do revert wars, mass vandalizing (afaik the
>>>> rollback doesnt have a captcha so you could easily use a bot), etc, etc.
>>> Firstly: they can only revert-war or mass-vandalise until they're
>>> blocked. So make sure you block them quickly enough ;-)
>>>
>>> Secondly: You've already mentioned Captcha. Why is it not an option to
>>> implement a Captcha for every rollback that is requested less than (say)
>>> a minute after the previous rollback?
The current captcha (the math formula) wouldn't use anything as it can
easily be overrided with any programming langauage that supports
eval()-like functions.

>> . . . for non-admins, anyway?
>
> A minute seems a bit long; Normal vandal fighting with JS tools is faster
> than that.
In peak times it may be even slower or non-working as most scripts don't
retry if they get errors, which happen often :-(

Regards,
Marco Schuster


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
Hi Sydney.

Let me summarise my objection to this: codification.  It is absolutely
acceptable that the "community" should be able to impose specific
measures.  However, I find it absolutely unnecessary that this should
be written down as explicit policy.  It can be done by saying "I have
this hold over you: I won't take it further if you desist in your
behaviour".  That is all that needs to be said here, and it doesn't
need to be written down in an explicit policy.

On 11/17/06, Sydney Poore aka FloNight <poore5 at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Previously, it has been discussed on both AN/I and AN and other places. And
> more importantly they were being done and logged at the community probation
> page. I waited until we had 3 done before I changed the name as suggested
> and began moving it toward policy. If you think it needs more discussion,
> fine, but can we do it on the talk page of the policy as well as here. Many
> editors and admins do not follow this discussion list.

I prefer to start debates here, so it's possible to get an
over-arching opinion, rather than a closely defined one that is always
the result of talking on a talk page.  Most of the editors whose
opinions I think are most valuable contribute to this list regularly;
this is not to put down those who don't contribute to the list, merely
to say that, generally and by no means exclusively, the best editors
do use this list.

> Several important points. These are intended to be temporary not permanent
> sanctions. They can be appealed to other Admin, Arbitration Committee and
> Jimbo. And since Administrators are not cops that are required to enforce
> sanctions, these sanctions can be ignored by admins if they are not working
> or making the situation worse. If there is disagreement in the community
> before or after the sanction is given then they will be appealed to ArbCom.
> Does this deal with your concerns about the community handling the matter
> instead of ArbCom?

My concern is not with "the community" dealing with a problem.  Of
course, the idea of "the community" dealing with anything is extremely
remote.  Far more likely is a few editors making a decision.  I think
it is extremely unprofitable for such an ill-defined entity to impose
very rigid and structured prohibitions.  They can be agreed with a
user with one admin making suggestions.  A ban is a nice, clean
remedy.  More complicated sanctions are not going to work when imposed
by "the community".

> I think that the Arbitration Committee should handle situations that the
> community can not deal with on their own.

I absolutely agree.

I think that the practice
> should be written down so that admins know to log the sanctions and can
> benefit from the prior experience of admins that have done them.

These kinds of things should not be done by inexperienced admins who
do not have the "instincts" to manage the situation.  They should only
be done by admins who really know the ropes and have proven judgement.
 They should not need these instructions to help them.

--
Sam


subject:
[Foundation-l] RfC: Mission & Vision Statements of the
	Wikimedia Foundation

body:
On 11/17/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> The more I ponder this statement the more I dislike it. Forget
> dissemination -- what about knowledge collection? As if knowledge only
> exists in English, or major European languages. The "language barrier"
> goes both ways. To access some of the world's oldest and most classic
> texts, we should also advocate teaching everyone classical Chinese.
> How likely is that? The gift of accessing information in your native
> language should not be underestimated by those who are lucky enough to
> take it for granted.

Well said!
Once I was interviewed by Nick Hill, I stressed this point - that is
why I am involved into project: thinking in your native language is,
even if it seemed to be strange for the majority, *a genuine
privilege*. Most of languages on this planet have such advantages in
occasion to be initiated into the intellectual world. Besides some
languages which lack writing system, there are thousands of people
whose governments don't provide the educational opportunity in their
native languages. If you are educated only in your mother tongue, you
are highly privileged. And personally I think it is unfair: we human
being is equally invited to heir the wealth of human beings? But I
find no equal opportunity in this situation.

You may remember the thread "why Indian editors are not interested in
their native language projects". One of answers is here; in India as
same as other countries, middle and high education is provided mainly
in English. High educated people are familiar to think in English. And
English is even one of their government official language. It is not
their mother tongue though, but they can claim English is one of India
languages. But OTOH it is still no their mother language.

> The principle of multilinguality is what really gives Wikimedia
> *global* participation and therefore WMF a global voice and global
> influence. That is something amazing that I am not really aware of
> anyone else... anywhere... doing on the same scale. It deserves proper
> recognition -- I think the "in their own language" should be
> re-appended.

So principally I think we share a same stance, Brianna. On the other
hand I am a bit hesitant to add "in their own language" as the way
once proposed. Because of their current situations - most of those
language lack terminology to describe highly developed knowledge for
example - it wouldn't go straightly I am afraid. We need coinage
perhaps but ... well, is it really our tasks? To create enormous
vocabulary for resources we would like to provide? I am not sure and
at a corner of my brain a motto "avoid original researches" is
blinking ...

Another case is the case of bi/multilingual. We also see an example on
Indian language projects and Indian editors ... "Their own languages"
don't meant their native languages exclusively in that case.

I would therefore like to retain a mention to our favor to
multilingualism basically and in a modest way. Like "to help people
having knowledge in their (own?) languages as far as they want". For
example, an Ainu native who is basically educated in a Japanese
educational system, I suppose, would prefer to read something, eh, for
instance about financing, or in some cases about their own ethnic
culture, in Japanese, not in their language.  However, with such
complication, I still agree it will be far great to mention to
promotion of multilingualism in a certain way. I would appreciate
people/person who proposed it on Frankfurter retreat.

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


body:
shi zhao wrote:
<snip>
> "Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
> censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
> comment?
>
> A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned.

What, they don't know that we exist?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
shi zhao wrote:
<snip>
> "Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
> censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
> comment?
>
> A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned.

What, they don't know that we exist?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
shi zhao wrote:
<snip>
> "Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
> censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
> comment?
>
> A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned.

What, they don't know that we exist?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
shi zhao wrote:
<snip>
> "Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
> censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
> comment?
>
> A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned.

What, they don't know that we exist?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Mathias Schindler

body:
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/cgi-bin/displayJob.pl?job_no=3152

Division Sales Manager

posted: 17 Nov 2006
Offered by:  Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc.
Benefits:  Health, Dental, 401K, Bonus
Duration:  Full Time
Location:  Chicago, IL 60610
Requirements:

Join the world leader in reference publishing to the library and
education markets as a Divisional Sales Manager. In this role, you
will be responsible for directing Britannica's sales team in selling
online and print resources to the institutional market, i.e. schools,
libraries, and universities.


body:
On 11/17/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/11/06, Mathias Schindler <mathias.schindler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hah. We should get Britannica to infiltrate Wikipedia. They could
> subtly put in lots of high-quality edits ...

They already did in subtly putting in lots of crappy-quality
britannica.com links in articles in 2004 :(

Mathias


from_name: geni

subject: [Foundation-l] Rules committee

body:
On 11/17/06, cohesion <cohesion at sleepyhead.org> wrote:
> I don't know if this was a joke, but I actually like the idea. We seem
> more than capable of creating new rules all the time (ahem [[Wikipedia
> talk:Community sanction]]). Creating rules is chaotic now, but is that
> a bad thing? I like process efficiency, but an efficient rules
> creation system seems a little dangerous.

We do have a process for creating new rules. Idon't think anyone has
ever followed it though.

--
geni


subject: [Foundation-l] Rules committee


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:58:30 +0000, "Sam Korn" <smoddy at gmail.com>
wrote:

>I think this is a pretty awful idea.  This is an extrapolation of the
>concept of a community ban that has no basis in logic.  The concept
>behind a "community ban" is not "rough consensus", as shown by an 80%
>vote or whatever exists nowadays, but unanimity among admins -- not
>one admin out of >1000 being prepared to unblock you.  People seem to
>have got hold of the idea that a "rough consensus" is good enough
>here.  It isn't.  An ArbCom case is needed when there isn't unanimity
>among the community.

The problem is that ArbCom cases go on for months, during which the
disruption continues.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<7409719.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<cbffa3750611171203p562ebf9dk3bc1373b1936df50@mail.gmail.com>
	<7410757.post@talk.nabble.com>

body:
On 11/17/06, Sydney Poore aka FloNight <poore5 at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Agree with your concerns about inexperienced admins. The point of this
> policy is to make sure that more experienced admins get involved by
> requiring discussion on AN or AN/I. Some ideas for community sanctions have
> been dismissed when presented. Currently blocks and user talk page
> protection are used with little oversight by more experienced admins to try
> and deal with problems. I see this as the community having another less
> rigid and brutal tool than exhaust the patience bans, cool off blocks, talk
> page protection.

You say that "some ideas for community sanctions have been dismissed
when presented".  Well, yes, I think they still should be.  Any
arrangements like this should be on a strictly one-to-one basis, not
imposed down by some consensus of the community.  Any other method
will not work.

I also strongly disagree with issuing more process for admins to
follow when they are using their initiative.

--
Sam


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
On 11/17/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> The problem is that ArbCom cases go on for months, during which the
> disruption continues.

In this case, I think there needs to be consideration for increased
use of temporary injunctions by the ArbCom.  I don't think some kind
of formalised vigilantism is going to be helpful.

--
Sam


from_name: Nick Jenkins

body:
> So, when/where can we see it in action? On the testwiki?

If you just want to play with it, you can see it doing something simple at: http://theplaypit.nickj.org/wiki/index.php?title=Page ,
and you're more than welcome to create any test pages you like on that wiki if you want to play with it. The documentation at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Labeled_Section_Transclusion covers the syntax and how to use it.

If you want to play with it on the cluster though, that's not something I can answer.

All the best,
Nick.


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:51:12 +0000, "Sam Korn" <smoddy at gmail.com>
wrote:

>In this case, I think there needs to be consideration for increased
>use of temporary injunctions by the ArbCom.  I don't think some kind
>of formalised vigilantism is going to be helpful.

I am torn here.  On the one hand, I think that community-based
management of problem editors is a good thing.  On the other hand,
there are insufficient eyeballs (for community bans or anything else).

ArbCom does not scale well.  Maybe with more arbs it would, but maybe
the simple cases can simply be handled by admins (as in practice they
usually are) and the complex cases left to ArbCom.  The missing link
here is the topical ban; only ArbCom currently does that, and a goodly
number of people seem to feel that in unambiguous cases we should
simply tell an editor not to edit a certain topic directly due to
conflict of interest.  But we need to record that somewhere, which is
where all this started out.

Right now it's all half-formed ideas.  We probably only need the
existing processes and guidelines, additional stuff may well be
redundant in the final analysis, because in the end what we are
talking about is essentially establishing some kind of enforcement of
an RfC outcome without having to go all the way to ArbCom.  If a case
went to ArbCom which had an RfC behind it, a decent number of
complainants, a requested temporary injunction of a topical ban, and
that was also the requested final outcome, would we not simply be
wasting everyone's time?

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<9brrl29veehqk02on04e0eligiu1vu407m@4ax.com>
	<cbffa3750611171351l4b9ebee8j4b23e8fcb8bfc7c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bhsl256hej8v3t9sje7a7umfceurd53tk@4ax.com>

body:
On 17/11/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:

> ArbCom does not scale well.  Maybe with more arbs it would, but maybe
> the simple cases can simply be handled by admins (as in practice they
> usually are) and the complex cases left to ArbCom.

The AC has often said "look, just use your admin sense and ban this idiot."

> The missing link
> here is the topical ban; only ArbCom currently does that, and a goodly
> number of people seem to feel that in unambiguous cases we should
> simply tell an editor not to edit a certain topic directly due to
> conflict of interest.  But we need to record that somewhere, which is
> where all this started out.

I really wouldn't be sure about anyone less than the AC trying to put
a topic ban on an editor.

> Right now it's all half-formed ideas.  We probably only need the
> existing processes and guidelines, additional stuff may well be
> redundant in the final analysis, because in the end what we are
> talking about is essentially establishing some kind of enforcement of
> an RfC outcome without having to go all the way to ArbCom.

That's a really horrible and stupid idea, e.g. the RFC against Kelly
Martin which overwhelmingly censured her for removing blatant
copyright violations without a vote first.

>  If a case
> went to ArbCom which had an RfC behind it, a decent number of
> complainants, a requested temporary injunction of a topical ban, and
> that was also the requested final outcome, would we not simply be
> wasting everyone's time?

The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot.

- d,.


from_name: Edward Z. Yang

subject: [Wikitech-l] I18N / L10 / Language Wishlist

body:
Hi, I'm currently developing an I18N system for a moderately large PHP
software library and would like to model it off of MediaWiki's setup,
being an extremely well-tested installation (even though it is an
application, not a library).

However, I do realize that the stability that comes with age also means
that there might be a little bit of legacy cruft stuck in the files,
esp. when concerning fundamental architectural changes.

I'd like to ask all and any developers who are familiar with MediaWiki's
I18N structure to comment on your opinions of the strengths and
weaknesses of the system (the code will tell me how it works) and what
you would do different if you had the chance to rewrite the whole thing.
Consider it documentation for an extremely undocumented section of the
code: not a single result turns up for a Wikitech-l search of "i18n."

Thanks for your time! I understand you're all quite busy people.


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-11-18

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/maintenance/parserTests.txt"...
Running test TODO: Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Template with thumb image (with link in description)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!
Running test TODO: 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line... FAILED!
Running test TODO: dt/dd/dl test... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Images with the "|" character in the comment... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, without trailing slash or name.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, with lots of extra trailing slashes.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Don't fall for the self-closing div... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Always escape literal '>' in output, not just after '<'... FAILED!

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/extensions/Cite/citeParserTests.txt"...

Passed 449 of 469 tests (95.74%)... FAILED!


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
On 18/11/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Gerard wrote:

> > The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot.

> They should be banned.

Assume Good Faith! If not excellent judgement.

- d.


from_name: Luiz Augusto

body:
On 11/18/06, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/18/06, Jay R. Ashworth <jra at baylink.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 02:17:46AM +0800, Tian-Jian Barabbas Jiang at Gmailwrote:
> > > http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/Template:Languages
> >
> > So, who wants to petition ICANN to start the .pedia TLD?
>
> .wiki is more likely to happen than .pedia. Apparently the person who
> bought wiki.com is pushing for it.
>
> Angela
>
>
Since October 2006 is possible to have in Brazil domain names for personal
websites like someone.wiki.br: http://registro.br/anuncios/20061002.html (in
Portuguese) http://preview.tinyurl.com/ydsxdh (Google Translation).


body:
On 18/11/06, Jamie Wilkinson <jamiew at nyu.edu> wrote:

> I'm part of a team in a management & organizational analysis at the
> Stern School of Business at New York University. We selected
> Wikipedia as the subject of our final analysis, and are specifically
> interested in what drives people to participate in Wikipedia. To this
> end we've compiled an anonymous, 5-minute survey that we hoped the
> Wikipedia community would take part in, everyone from casual readers
> to editors to members of the Board.
> It's available online at <http://tramchase.com/wikipedia-survey>

I entered a rather large number in "minutes" ...

- d.


body:
On 11/18/06, Jamie Wilkinson <jamiew at nyu.edu> wrote:
> I'm part of a team in a management & organizational analysis at the
> Stern School of Business at New York University. We selected
> Wikipedia as the subject of our final analysis, and are specifically
> interested in what drives people to participate in Wikipedia. To this
> end we've compiled an anonymous, 5-minute survey that we hoped the
> Wikipedia community would take part in, everyone from casual readers
> to editors to members of the Board.
>
> It's available online at <http://tramchase.com/wikipedia-survey>
>
> Please be as detailed as possible. Your participation is much
> appreciated!

It links to wikipedia.com. Wikipedia is at wikipedia.org

--
geni


from_name: Damian Finol

subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report

body:
?ukasz Garczewski wrote:
> Dear community,
>
> I am pleased to present you all with a report on the activities of the
> Wikimedia Foundation's Chapters committee.
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee/Reports/2006-11-18
>
> This document gives an overview of what ChapCom has been doing for the
> past two months or so.
>
> If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask here, on the
> reports talk page or by posting to ChapCom's mailing list.
>
> You can find the address of the list as well as some basic info on
> ChapCom on Meta under:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee
>
Greetings,

Excellent!, I think the whole "package" thing is a great idea, maybe we
can elaborate more on it?, or maybe setup some sort of experience
sharing where participants of already funded chapters can share their
experiences with people interested in founding a chapter.

Regards,

Damian Finol
Venezuela


subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report


from_name: Florian Straub

subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
----- Original Message -----
  From: Cary Bass
  To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
  Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

  -----Original Message-----
  From: commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org [mailto:commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org]On Behalf Of Bence Damokos
  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 AM
  To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
  Subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

    "and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain" [copied from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]

    What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem inactive? Was there a decision to stop it?

    Bence Damokos
    huwiki

  The truth is that the creator of the CommonsDelinker, OrgulloMoore, has gotten very busy with other things and has not had time to manage it.

  Cary Bass

Therefore it seems, that Marco is working on a similar solution.

Regards,

Flo

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from_name: Tian-Jian "Barabbas" Jiang@Gmail

subject: [Wikitech-l] How to enable Template:Languages functionality

body:
Dear all,

I've upgraded my own MediaWiki and tried to enable Template:Languages
functionality to support page translation.
The result, however, is not correct:
http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/Template:Languages

The ParserFunctions extension had been installed.

The keywords to search for this question are not easy to acquire to me,
therefore I have to bother you guys here.
Sorry about that and thanks for all your patience.

Best Regards,
Mike


body:
Tian-Jian "Tai-ming" Jiang at IIS.SINICA wrote:
> Tian-Jian "Barabbas" Jiang at Gmail wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I've upgraded my own MediaWiki and tried to enable Template:Languages
>> functionality to support page translation.
>> The result, however, is not correct:
>> http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/Template:Languages
>>
>>
> For further problematic case, please refer to
> http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/%E9%A6%96%E9%A0%81/zh-hant and
> http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/%E9%A6%96%E9%A0%81
Hmmm... seems that my problem is why {{Language}} works fine on
wikimania2007.wikimedia.org
but the tag has to be {{Language|Main Page}} in my site.

m(_ _)m

Cheers,
Mike


from_name: Łukasz Garczewski

subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report

body:
Dear community,

I am pleased to present you all with a report on the activities of the
Wikimedia Foundation's Chapters committee.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee/Reports/2006-11-18

This document gives an overview of what ChapCom has been doing for the
past two months or so.

If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask here, on the
reports talk page or by posting to ChapCom's mailing list.

You can find the address of the list as well as some basic info on
ChapCom on Meta under:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee

--
Best regards,
?ukasz 'TOR' Garczewski
ChapCom Member


subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report


from_name: damodar vinayak bale

subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
 ?There is no need for delinking.Linking alike thoughts is a difficult
task.I was wonderstruck to read about the book"How Language Works"by
David Crystal,and when will a nation like"Bharat"own its rightful
National Language.It's a secular nation with many languages.Main
languages that work,are "English and Hindi"both being non-secular.
"Sanskrit"is secular and most suitable for Bharat to achieve Nationhood
India can be a name of a country,where English and Hindi are spoken.
But Bharat can be the name of a Nation with Sanskrit as its National
Language.It is sixty years since its indepedence,and National Pride is
slowly disappearing from its cityzen because of lack of one language.
David Crystal knows the value of Sanskrit language so do many.Community
at large should accept valuable thoughts for its peaceful LIVING.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 Florian Straub wrote :
>----- Original Message -----
>   From: Cary Bass
>   To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
>   Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org [mailto:commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org]On Behalf Of Bence Damokos
>   Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 AM
>   To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
>   Subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
>
>
>     "and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain" [copied from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]
>
>     What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem inactive? Was there a decision to stop it?
>
>     Bence Damokos
>     huwiki
>
>
>
>   The truth is that the creator of the CommonsDelinker, OrgulloMoore, has gotten very busy with other things and has not had time to manage it.
>
>   Cary Bass
>
>Therefore it seems, that Marco is working on a similar solution.
>
>Regards,
>
>Flo
>
>_______________________________________________
>Commons-l mailing list
>Commons-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
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subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
 ?There is no need for delinking.Linking alike thoughts is a difficult
task.I was wonderstruck to read about the book"How Language Works"by
David Crystal,and when will a nation like"Bharat"own its rightful
National Language.It's a secular nation with many languages.Main
languages that work,are "English and Hindi"both being non-secular.
"Sanskrit"is secular and most suitable for Bharat to achieve Nationhood
India can be a name of a country,where English and Hindi are spoken.
But Bharat can be the name of a Nation with Sanskrit as its National
Language.It is sixty years since its indepedence,and National Pride is
slowly disappearing from its cityzen because of lack of one language.
David Crystal knows the value of Sanskrit language so do many.Community
at large should accept valuable thoughts for its peaceful LIVING.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 Florian Straub wrote :
>----- Original Message -----
>   From: Cary Bass
>   To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
>   Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org [mailto:commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org]On Behalf Of Bence Damokos
>   Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 AM
>   To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
>   Subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
>
>
>     "and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain" [copied from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]
>
>     What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem inactive? Was there a decision to stop it?
>
>     Bence Damokos
>     huwiki
>
>
>
>   The truth is that the creator of the CommonsDelinker, OrgulloMoore, has gotten very busy with other things and has not had time to manage it.
>
>   Cary Bass
>
>Therefore it seems, that Marco is working on a similar solution.
>
>Regards,
>
>Flo
>
>_______________________________________________
>Commons-l mailing list
>Commons-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
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from_name: NSLE (Wikipedia)

body:
Have done it. I think most of us would be interested in the results.

-Chacor

On 18/11/06, Jamie Wilkinson <jamiew at nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> I'm part of a team in a management & organizational analysis at the
> Stern School of Business at New York University. We selected
> Wikipedia as the subject of our final analysis, and are specifically
> interested in what drives people to participate in Wikipedia. To this
> end we've compiled an anonymous, 5-minute survey that we hoped the
> Wikipedia community would take part in, everyone from casual readers
> to editors to members of the Board.
>
> It's available online at <http://tramchase.com/wikipedia-survey>
>
> Please be as detailed as possible. Your participation is much
> appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> -jamie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] More Accurate Wikipedia Warnings

body:
Dear colleagues from the template-loving Wikipedia, there might be
still ways to expand and improve the existing templates...

http://www.cracked.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1293


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<9brrl29veehqk02on04e0eligiu1vu407m@4ax.com>
	<cbffa3750611171351l4b9ebee8j4b23e8fcb8bfc7c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bhsl256hej8v3t9sje7a7umfceurd53tk@4ax.com>
	<fbad4e140611171600u5078f4ack4ee4f2965613ad44@mail.gmail.com>

body:
David Gerard wrote:
<snip>
>
> The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot.
>

They should be banned.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
Tim Starling wrote:
> Will this library be free?

Of course! (maybe a little too free, being licensed under LGPL).  A
link, perhaps, would speak better: <http://hp.jpsband.org/>

> I've made a number of posts to wikitech-l on this subject, but I don't use
> the term "i18n". As I once quipped on IRC, MediaWiki isn't
> internationalised, it's international. It's always been international, we
> never had to go through the process of internationalisation to get there. Or
> more precisely, it's multilingual. But also I don't like substituting digits
> for letters.

For your benefit, I reran the search under "international", "language"
and "Tim Starling". Some interesting threads were brought up:

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikitech-l/2002-March/012496.html
  \- extremely old thread on switching to UTF-8

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikitech-l/2006-July/037090.html
  \- your proposal for rewriting the language files

> There are a number of aspects to our interface translation system:
>
> * Message input
> * Architecture, caching
> * Parameter substitution: agglutination and escaping
>
> Which of these are you interested in? Presumably our message input model
> (i.e. via a wiki) wouldn't be universally applicable.

Comments on message input would be very valuable, not necessarily from
the wiki side, but from the PHP file for translators side.
Specifically, now that your switch has been made, are you happy with the
new implementation of the translator?  Also, what you think of the
method that extensions add localizable strings to the MessageCache?
Would decentralizing the messages be a better policy for even the core
parts of MediaWiki? How about just decentralizing English messages, so
they're never out of-sync with the code?

Policy on how you reuse messages would be interesting too: how much
would a message have to change before you just say, "Okay, we need to
give it a new name so old customizations don't clobber it."?  As well as
naming conventions for the messages: what would you imagine a good
policy would be?

Architecture is hard to figure out from just looking at code, so a
real-quick, high level lowdown would be appreciated (doesn't have to be
very long). Caching, I understand, is just lots of unserialize and
filemtime calls.

Parameter substitution (from what I see) seems at first to be a very
easy thing to do, but quickly gets very complicated. I'd like to know
the major pitfalls with substitution in obscure languages are (so I can
determine whether or not, for my needs, I have to work around them, or I
can blithely ignore them).

I suppose this is just a big jumble of questions that I'd like answered.
I hope none of them are too time-consuming. Thanks for your help!


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
shi zhao wrote:

>from Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu's Regular Press Conference
>on November 16 2006 :
>http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/xwfw/s2510/2511/t280600.htm
>
>"Q: Second question, the Chinese version of Wikipedia, which has been
>censored since last October, has been unblocked last week. What's your
>comment?
>
>A: I'm not aware of the information on the website you mentioned. The
>Chinese Government supports and promotes the development of the
>internet. By 2005, China's internet subscribers reached over 123
>million, and the number of Chinese websites 788 thousand. China has
>become the second largest internet user of the world. China
>administrates internet in accordance with law. This is also the usual
>practice by all the countries in the world. "
>
I'm comforted to see that the Chinese Foreign Ministry has adopted
world-class responsiveness which "is also the usual practice by all the
countries in the world. " ;-)

Ec


from_name: Steve Bennett

subject: [Wikitech-l] On style sheets

body:
On 11/13/06, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think it's a good idea to jump through hoops when adding new
> features.  That's just silly.  Clear announcement is necessary when a

I agree that we should keep it easy to improve the UI - we all know it
needs improvement in many ways.

> change will *break preexisting functionality* such as user
> customizations.  I don't think discussion or announcement is necessary
> for the implementation of
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1578, for instance.

It would be *nice* (not necessary) to have fixes even as minor as that
announced at the time they're committed. Hell, we could even
congratulate the developer who implements them. And if they do break
something, someone will be able to do something about it.

Or is there some kind of blog or RSS feed or something we could
subscribe to, to see what's happening? Hopefully a little more
accessible than just a subversion log?

Steve


body:
Andrew Lih wrote:

>On 11/17/06, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>2006/11/17, Dariusz Siedlecki <datrio at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>It's funny that just two days ago, the largest Polish newspaper
>>"Gazeta Wyborcza" has announced that Wikipedia is unblocked in China:
>>
>>http://gospodarka.gazeta.pl/gospodarka/1,33181,3739338.html
>>
>>and they have written that it is good example that "hard-talks" w
>>China goverment may give good results....
>>
>>
>Sigh.
>
>Yes it's stories like that and from Reporters Sans Frontiers that can
>be frustrating - gloating that you can press China to change if you
>push hard enough is not exactly a friendly tactic. In fact, it may be
>counterproductive.
>
The "nouveau libre" like the "nouveau riche" tend to neglect the study
of history.  In a Chinese context they could keep up to date by reading
the "Shujing".

Ec


from_name: Angela

body:
Angela.

On 11/18/06, Jay R. Ashworth <jra at baylink.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 02:17:46AM +0800, Tian-Jian Barabbas Jiang at Gmail wrote:
> > http://taipedia.info/mediawiki/index.php/Template:Languages
>
> So, who wants to petition ICANN to start the .pedia TLD?

.wiki is more likely to happen than .pedia. Apparently the person who
bought wiki.com is pushing for it.

Angela


body:
Here is my analysis of MediaWiki's I18N system:

== Structure ==

First, you have a Language object. This object contains all the
localisable message strings, as well as other important
language-specific settings and custom behavior (uppercasing,
lowercasing, printing dates, formatting numbers, etc.)

The object is constructed from two sources: subclassed versions of
itself (classes) and Message files (messages).

== General use ==

You load a language object by calling the Language::factory() function.
This function the class file for the object (taking in account fallback
languages by using the fallback langauge's object but overloading the
language key) and returns that object. Nothing else happens.

When a message/etc is requested, a lazy load initializor is called. Now
the real work starts. We're first going to take the scenario that the
language is not cached. The system loads the Messages file by:

require( $filename );
$cache = compact( self::$mLocalisationKeys );

...where self::$mLocalisationKeys is the name of variables that could be
used in the localization file. This lets you use things like:

$fallback = false;
$rtl = false;

...and easily siphon them into arrays.

Then, we load the $fallback language (if not set, English) to fill in
the gaps in the messages. There is specialized behavior for certain
keys, as they can be mergeable maps, lists or alias lists (not sure what
the last one is).

== Caching ==

MediaWiki has lots of caching mechanisms built in, which make the code
somewhat more difficult to understand. Before doing any loading,
MediaWiki will check the following places to see if we can be lazy:

1. $mLocalisationCache[$code] - just a variable where it may have been
stashed
2. serialized/$code.ser - compiled serialized language file
3. Memcached version of file (with expiration checking)

Expiration checking consists of by ensuring all dependencies have
filemtime that match the ones bundled with the cached copy. Similar
checking could be implemented for serialized versions, as it seems that
they are not updated until manually recompiled.

== Behavior ==

Things that are localizable:

- Weekdays (and abbrev)
- Months (and abbrev)
- Bookstores
- Skin names
- Math names
- Date preferences
- Date format
- Default date format
- Date preference migration map
- Default user option overrides
- Language names
- Timezones
- Character encoding conversion via iconv
- UpperLowerCase first (needs casemaps for some)
- UpperLowerCase
- Uppercase words
- Uppercase word breaks
- Case folding
- Strip punctuation for MySQL search
- Get first character
- Alternate encoding
- Recoding for edit (and then recode input)
- RTL
- Direction mark character depending on RTL
- Arrow depending on RTL
- Languages where italics cannot be used
- Number formatting (commafy, transform digits, transform separators)
- Truncate (multibyte)
- Grammar conversions for inflected languages
- Plural transformations
- Formatting expiry times
- Segmenting for diffs (Chinese)
- Convert to variants of language
- Language specific user preference options
- Link trails [[foo]]bar
- Language code (RFC 3066)

Neat functionality:

- I18N sprintfDate
- Roman numeral formatting


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report

body:
?ukasz Garczewski wrote:
> Dear community,
>
> I am pleased to present you all with a report on the activities of the
> Wikimedia Foundation's Chapters committee.
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee/Reports/2006-11-18
>
> This document gives an overview of what ChapCom has been doing for the
> past two months or so.
>
> If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask here, on the
> reports talk page or by posting to ChapCom's mailing list.
>
> You can find the address of the list as well as some basic info on
> ChapCom on Meta under:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee
>

Thanks Lukasz.

Very up to the point.

A quick addition in terms of timeline.
*requirements for future chapters and
*generic chapter agreement
have already been defined.

"The requirements" have been decided during the board retreat and are in
the hands of the chapcom, and are expected to be delivered to the board
in a few days.

The "chapter agreement" has been entirely described on our internal wiki
since the board retreat, and is in its final stage of review.

Both documents should be stamp-approved during the next board meeting,
on the 29-30 of november. So, this is a very short term decision.

Guidelines for future chapters are likely to be another short term step,
with a prospective of being done in the next 3 months.

The last step could be a generic agreement for commercial use of
Wikimedia Foundation trademarks (for example, production and sale of
DVDs). This is probably not to be expected before at least spring 2007,
if not later, as it first require to get our trademarks straight and
second should cover a variety of situations we have to identify.
Meanwhile, agreements for commercial use of logo will proceed case by
case. We'll try to be as responsive as possible (ahum).

Florence


subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report


from_name: Puppy

body:
David Gerard wrote:
>
> I entered a rather large number in "minutes" ...
>
>
> - d.
> _______________________________________________
I put a very small number, like the week I had the flu, and then put a
"+" afterwards. I was horrified he didn't have "hours."
-kc-
400+ mpw


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Commons-l] A guide for projects to turning off local uploads

body:
On 18/11/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:

> BTW I am really happy to see the enthusiastic response from the
> discussions, we now have four new native Spanish speaking admin
> candidates, and one native Portugese speaking (not to mention two
> English, as well :)). They all seem like excellent candidates who are
> very keen to help. I certainly hope that at least a few will stick
> around after the initial euphoria of a new sysop bit wears off. :)

I'm now at home for my on-call week and will try to get some shitwork
done as well, running for admin if I think I can keep up the shitwork
:-)

- d.


from_name: Brianna Laugher

subject: [Commons-l] Javascript magic

body:
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could either write user Javascript to do
this, or tell me if it's possible.

Have it so that every Category: page inserts __NOGALLERY__ for that
user, ie. they see text links instead of images, when they look at
categories.

It would probably be a lot more useful if there was a way to turn it
off again at specific times for specific categories, eg. if there was
a link somewhere like 'view this category' (what everyone else is
doing by default)

Any thoughts?

Brianna
user:pfctdayelise


subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report

body:
The ChapCom "Package" to help prospective chapters get started looks
fantastic. I am sure dozens of Wikimedia communities all over the
world will find it very useful, and I very much look forward to
reading it. :)

regards,
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise

On 18/11/06, ?ukasz Garczewski <tor at oak.pl> wrote:
> Dear community,
>
> I am pleased to present you all with a report on the activities of the
> Wikimedia Foundation's Chapters committee.
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee/Reports/2006-11-18
>
> This document gives an overview of what ChapCom has been doing for the
> past two months or so.
>
> If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask here, on the
> reports talk page or by posting to ChapCom's mailing list.
>
> You can find the address of the list as well as some basic info on
> ChapCom on Meta under:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_committee
>
> --
> Best regards,
> ?ukasz 'TOR' Garczewski
> ChapCom Member
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


subject: [Foundation-l] ChapCom activity report


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:00:29 +0000, "David Gerard" <dgerard at gmail.com>
wrote:

>The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot

And yet we trust it to edit the world's biggest encyclopaedia...

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Simetrical

subject: [Wikitech-l] On style sheets

body:
On 11/17/06, Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be *nice* (not necessary) to have fixes even as minor as that
> announced at the time they're committed. Hell, we could even
> congratulate the developer who implements them. And if they do break
> something, someone will be able to do something about it.
>
> Or is there some kind of blog or RSS feed or something we could
> subscribe to, to see what's happening? Hopefully a little more
> accessible than just a subversion log?

I just restarted the Wikipedia Signpost's Technical Report last week,
so if you read that it will tell you about all the changes made over
the previous week.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost>  Of
course, it's not aligned with code synchronization, which happen on an
ad-hoc basis, so you might get the news when the feature's already
been live for a few days.  For more up-to-date updates you can
watchlist the user subpage where I keep my drafts of the coming week's
report, at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Simetrical/BRION>.


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<9brrl29veehqk02on04e0eligiu1vu407m@4ax.com>
	<cbffa3750611171351l4b9ebee8j4b23e8fcb8bfc7c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bhsl256hej8v3t9sje7a7umfceurd53tk@4ax.com>
	<fbad4e140611171600u5078f4ack4ee4f2965613ad44@mail.gmail.com>
	<0chul2ljp2fphlfi0lt60h5ajb6tukjeqd@4ax.com>

body:
On 18/11/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:00:29 +0000, "David Gerard" <dgerard at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> >The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot

> And yet we trust it to edit the world's biggest encyclopaedia...

Not in any way a contradiction. The wisdom of crowds happens when it
happens. The Community has shown it can write an encyclopedia. The
Community has shown it's really bad at dealing with many of the
indirect processes involved. Just as with people, ability in one area
does not confer ability in another, and I'm surprised you seem to
think it does.

- d.


from_name: George Herbert

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

references:
<cbffa3750611170858v2fef5ea0i607193d80a537dab@mail.gmail.com>
	<9brrl29veehqk02on04e0eligiu1vu407m@4ax.com>
	<cbffa3750611171351l4b9ebee8j4b23e8fcb8bfc7c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bhsl256hej8v3t9sje7a7umfceurd53tk@4ax.com>
	<fbad4e140611171600u5078f4ack4ee4f2965613ad44@mail.gmail.com>
	<0chul2ljp2fphlfi0lt60h5ajb6tukjeqd@4ax.com>
	<455FBA2E.8050908@gmail.com>

body:
On 11/18/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:00:29 +0000, "David Gerard" <dgerard at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The Community(tm) is far too often collectively an idiot
> >
> > And yet we trust it to edit the world's biggest encyclopaedia...
> >
>
> Trust them? No. We extract every valuable resource from them before they
> perish. Work shall set them free.

In Soviet Union, Wiki write you.

--
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com


from_name: Gizmo II

subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
Orgullomoore is teaching Alhen (current user running in RfA) how to use the
bot and giving him the code so he can run it. Don't rush your acussations,
since his trying the best he can to do the best for both wikis and commons.

--
Gizmo
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body:
>On 18/11/06, David Gerard" <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm now at home for my on-call week and will try to get some shitwork
>done as well, running for admin if I think I can keep up the shitwork
>:-)
>
>
>- d.

Dealing with the shitwork really is not hard. However, I find it can get a
little bit more time consuming than doing it on en.wiki since we are dealing
with users using different languages, and thus I have to keep something like
Google Translate or AltaVista Babel Fish handy. But I got a hang of it...
which means I should run for admin soon...

Zzyzx11
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Zzyzx11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Zzyzx11
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Zzyzx11
...and way too many other Wikimedia user pages to list here.

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version.?Join now.
http://ideas.live.com


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] "Community sanctions"

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote
> Date: 2006/11/17 Fri PM 09:43:38 GMT
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>

> The problem is that ArbCom cases go on for months, during which the
> disruption continues.

There's no reluctance to pass injunctions. I think those who bring suitable cases should also think in terms of asking for topical injunctions.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software
Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information


subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
What about starting to make some noise to the foundation about the
"unique account" they have been talking about since february?

--
Gizmo


subject: [Wikitech-l] Block message info idea

body:
Spilling out of my unblock-en-l experience...

It would be useful for block messages that blocked users receive to
display some sort of block-unique ID number to the user (say, the
ipb_id value), so that if they report it to admins (say, via
unblock-en-l) we can go search on that key and not have to wallow
around for a while figuring out what IP block or autoblock bit the
person.

I was wandering around trying to understand the blocking code to
suggest diffs, but it's given me a worse headache, so I'm just going
to suggest it for now rather than trying to impliment...

--
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com


from_name: Bence Damokos

subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
Couldn't OrgulloMoore just release the bot to a trusted user. I mean in the
spirit of Free Enc?clopedia, why would Marco have to do the work again just
because OrgulloMoore is busy? I don't wanna blame him for it, and I
understand that making the code available would be a huge liability, but I'm
sure he can find a Commons admnistrator he can trust with his code even
temporarily while he is busy. Also if the bot is stable and safe, it could
be run non-stop directly on the Wikimedia servers
Dami

On 18 Nov 2006 07:17:50 -0000, damodar vinayak bale <dvbale at rediffmail.com>
wrote:
>
>   There is no need for delinking.Linking alike thoughts is a difficult
> task.I was wonderstruck to read about the book"How Language Works"by
> David Crystal,and when will a nation like"Bharat"own its rightful
> National Language.It's a secular nation with many languages.Main
> languages that work,are "English and Hindi"both being non-secular.
> "Sanskrit"is secular and most suitable for Bharat to achieve Nationhood
> India can be a name of a country,where English and Hindi are spoken.
> But Bharat can be the name of a Nation with Sanskrit as its National
> Language.It is sixty years since its indepedence,and National Pride is
> slowly disappearing from its cityzen because of lack of one language.
> David Crystal knows the value of Sanskrit language so do many.Community
> at large should accept valuable thoughts for its peaceful LIVING.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 Florian Straub wrote :
> >----- Original Message -----
> >  From: Cary Bass
> >  To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
> >  Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:51 AM
> >  Subject: Re: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org [mailto:
> commons-l-bounces at wikimedia.org]On Behalf Of Bence Damokos
> >  Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 AM
> >  To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
> >  Subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker
> >
> >
> >    "and unlinking them [deleted images] is sometimes a serious pain"
> [copied from thread: Re: [Commons-l] Getting rid of "best before]
> >
> >    What is the status of the CommonsDelinker bot, why does it seem
> inactive? Was there a decision to stop it?
> >
> >    Bence Damokos
> >    huwiki
> >
> >
> >
> >  The truth is that the creator of the CommonsDelinker, OrgulloMoore, has
> gotten very busy with other things and has not had time to manage it.
> >
> >  Cary Bass
> >
> >Therefore it seems, that Marco is working on a similar solution.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Flo
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Commons-l mailing list
> >Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> >http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
> <http://adworks.rediff.com/cgi-bin/AdWorks/sigclick.cgi/www.rediff.com/signature-home.htm/1507191490 at Middle5?PARTNER=3>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>
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from_name: Cool Cat

subject: [Commons-l] Commons != kindergarden

body:
2000 vs 31000? Doesn't compare well. :)  I do not like working for
Tr.wikiall that much at the moment. In all fairness however I am no
native tr
speaker.
    - Cool Cat

On 11/17/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/17/06, Cool Cat <wikipedia.kawaii.neko at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hmm... I am actually shocked. I was expecting the  contrary since there
> are
> > more Americans (Mexicans and USians) than Spanish....
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Edits_by_project_and_country_of_origin
>
> I'll be doing an updated data collection run soon.
>
> In any case, it would appear that the distribution is not entirely
> controlled by the number of speakers, or even the number of speakers
> with computer access.... but by more complex factors.
>
> How does *your* edit count on the Turkish Wikipedia compare to your
> edit count on Enwiki?
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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from_name: bawolff

subject: [Commons-l] Javascript magic

body:
I think what s/he meant is that __NOGALLERY__ is something implemented
by mediawiki. not your browser, so it'd have to be implemented
server-side. (proablly in [[special:preferences]] I would assume).

-bawolff

On 11/18/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19/11/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brianna Laugher wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone could either write user Javascript to do
> > > this, or tell me if it's possible.
> > >
> > > Have it so that every Category: page inserts __NOGALLERY__ for that
> > > user, ie. they see text links instead of images, when they look at
> > > categories.
> > >
> > > It would probably be a lot more useful if there was a way to turn it
> > > off again at specific times for specific categories, eg. if there was
> > > a link somewhere like 'view this category' (what everyone else is
> > > doing by default)
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> >
> > __NOGALLERY__ is server-side. File a bug.
> >
>
> File a bug?? How is it a MediaWiki bug? I'm pretty sure the reply will
> come back 'just set your browser preference to stop loading images'.
>
> Brianna
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>


body:
Hello,

With the recent discussion about the es.wp and pt.wp decisions to turn
off local uploads and use Commons only, I wonder if a page like this
might be useful for the future?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pfctdayelise/Preparing_your_project_for_Commons

Comments & additions welcome as usual, especially from the Spanish
Wikipedia community, who might be able to comment on what works and
what doesn't, and other necessary steps.

BTW I am really happy to see the enthusiastic response from the
discussions, we now have four new native Spanish speaking admin
candidates, and one native Portugese speaking (not to mention two
English, as well :)). They all seem like excellent candidates who are
very keen to help. I certainly hope that at least a few will stick
around after the initial euphoria of a new sysop bit wears off. :)

regards,
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise


subject: [Commons-l] CommonsDelinker

body:
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be judgemental, just this was the impression I
got from reading the answers here, not knowing the full truth. I'm sorry...

On 11/18/06, Gizmo II <nahuel.gizmo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Orgullomoore is teaching Alhen (current user running in RfA) how to use
> the bot and giving him the code so he can run it. Don't rush your
> acussations, since his trying the best he can to do the best for both wikis
> and commons.
>
> --
> Gizmo
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>
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from_name: Oldak Quill

subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
On 18/11/06, Marco Schuster <CDL-Klever at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Good news: the bot is working.
> Bad news: It seems as if I need to have a flagged account on all wikis
> according to bot rules :-(.
> So this will take some time to create accs on all 660 wikis :-p
> (and even more to let them get flagged -.-)
>
> Regards,
> Marco

If you create a list of the wikis on which you need to create
accounts, you could get some admins to help you. The admin signs up;
you e-mail them your desired username, password and e-mail; and the
admin removes the wiki from your list. All you'd need to do is confirm
the e-mail address by clicking a link.

Would this be breaking any Foundation rules?

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


from_name: Marco Schuster

subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
Hello.

Good news: the bot is working.
Bad news: It seems as if I need to have a flagged account on all wikis
according to bot rules :-(.
So this will take some time to create accs on all 660 wikis :-p
(and even more to let them get flagged -.-)

Regards,
Marco


subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
On 18/11/06, Gizmo II <nahuel.gizmo at gmail.com> wrote:
> What about starting to make some noise to the foundation about the
> "unique account" they have been talking about since february?

Well, or noise to the developers since we're more a bottom-up
organisation. Perhaps we should incentivise the implementation of
single-login by building up a fund to go to the developers or the
Foundation on completion? How would we organise such a fund? How would
it be divided?

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


from_name: geni

subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
On 11/18/06, Gizmo II <nahuel.gizmo at gmail.com> wrote:
> What about starting to make some noise to the foundation about the
> "unique account" they have been talking about since february?

While the devs do wounderful things it is generaly best to find a
solution that doesn't require their involvement.

--
geni


from_name: Florian Straub

subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
 "Marco Schuster" <CDL-Klever at gmx.net> wrote:

> Bad news: It seems as if I need to have a flagged account on all wikis
> according to bot rules :-(.
> So this will take some time to create accs on all 660 wikis :-p
> (and even more to let them get flagged -.-)

Maybe you can give the bot to some users with a webserver on their dial-in
PCs, so they can use anonymous accounts ...

Regards,

Flo


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-11-19

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/maintenance/parserTests.txt"...
Running test TODO: Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Template with thumb image (with link in description)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!
Running test TODO: 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line... FAILED!
Running test TODO: dt/dd/dl test... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Images with the "|" character in the comment... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, without trailing slash or name.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, with lots of extra trailing slashes.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Don't fall for the self-closing div... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Always escape literal '>' in output, not just after '<'... FAILED!

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/extensions/Cite/citeParserTests.txt"...

Passed 449 of 469 tests (95.74%)... FAILED!


subject: [Commons-l] Commons delinker bot

body:
Can't you just take over the already created User:CommonsDelinker accounts?
Or just say, that for this to work each wiki has to create an account for
you, and send you the password (as agreeing on a password publicly would not
be safe).

Dami

On 11/19/06, Gizmo II <nahuel.gizmo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What about starting to make some noise to the foundation about the
> "unique account" they have been talking about since february?
>
> --
> Gizmo
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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from_name: Berto 'd Sera

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] POV-push on meta by admin User:Millosh in
	policydraft

body:
Hi!

> I expect that the language subcommittee supports it as well.
>1. "nation/ethnicity not well established, in the

AFAIK, no. For the simple reason that we do not care about ethnicities and
nations. Not in the least. You'll need an Ethnical Subcommittee for that.
So, no matter whether it's true or false, it's irrelevant as far as the
SubCommittee 4 langs is concerned.

Berto


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Edward Z. Yang wrote:
> Hi, I'm currently developing an I18N system for a moderately large PHP
> software library and would like to model it off of MediaWiki's setup,
> being an extremely well-tested installation (even though it is an
> application, not a library).

Will this library be free?

> However, I do realize that the stability that comes with age also means
> that there might be a little bit of legacy cruft stuck in the files,
> esp. when concerning fundamental architectural changes.
>
> I'd like to ask all and any developers who are familiar with MediaWiki's
> I18N structure to comment on your opinions of the strengths and
> weaknesses of the system (the code will tell me how it works) and what
> you would do different if you had the chance to rewrite the whole thing.
> Consider it documentation for an extremely undocumented section of the
> code: not a single result turns up for a Wikitech-l search of "i18n."

I've made a number of posts to wikitech-l on this subject, but I don't use
the term "i18n". As I once quipped on IRC, MediaWiki isn't
internationalised, it's international. It's always been international, we
never had to go through the process of internationalisation to get there. Or
more precisely, it's multilingual. But also I don't like substituting digits
for letters.

There are a number of aspects to our interface translation system:

* Message input
* Architecture, caching
* Parameter substitution: agglutination and escaping

Which of these are you interested in? Presumably our message input model
(i.e. via a wiki) wouldn't be universally applicable.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] copyright on scanned copy?

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

geni stated for the record:
> On 11/19/06, Fastfission <fastfission at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You are not "free to try and claim" so much as "it is very rare that
>> people ever get taken to court for false copyright claims over PD
>> material, even though it is illegal."
>>
>
> How is it illegal?

Fraud.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | You'll never find a more wretched hive
 sean at epoptic.com | of scum and villainy. --Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject: [Commons-l] Swedish Wikipedia disabling uploads

body:
On 11/19/06, Oldak Quill <oldakquill at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do we have enough Swedish admins to cope?

I think if I brush up a bit on my bork bork a bit we'll be fine:
http://sv.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Log

:)


from_name: Michael Hopcroft

subject: [WikiEN-l] copyright on scanned copy?

body:
Sean Barrett wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> geni stated for the record:
>
>> On 11/19/06, Fastfission <fastfission at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You are not "free to try and claim" so much as "it is very rare that
>>> people ever get taken to court for false copyright claims over PD
>>> material, even though it is illegal."
>>>
>>>
>> How is it illegal?
>>
>
> Fraud.
>
Indeed, plagiarism (claiming someone else's work as your own) is an
extreme problem in academic and creative circles. It is even bigger than
cheating on exams as a form of academic fraud, and indeed strikes at the
very soul of the academic and scientific processes.

Additionally, Hollywood is plagued with plagiarism and even more so with
accusations of plagiarism. Given the amount of money and energy that
goes into every media production, the stakes in such battles are
enormous. Literature has similar problems, with similarly high stakes:
the novel "The Bear went Over the Mountain"  is a wonderful satire on a
subject that most writers quake in their boots addressing.


body:
On 11/19/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/19/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think if I brush up a bit on my bork bork a bit we'll be fine:
> > http://sv.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Log
> >
> > :)
>
> Swedish copyright law is a little odd though. There was a chanage in
> what the early 90s I think but before that it was very very liberal.

It might as well be the "Pirate Party"'s personal Wiki: With no more
than about 10 uploads per day we'd never probably notice the increase.

I'm generally agains forcing newbie uploads on Wikis with vibrant and
active communities to upload on commons where we are less able to help
them, but in cases of smaller and low activity Wikis we are possibly
more able to deal with the situation.


from_name: Fastfission

subject: [WikiEN-l] copyright on scanned copy?

body:
On 11/17/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am not a copyright lawyer and I don't know if the practices
> > I've described are defensible from a copyright law point of view.
> > (*I'm* certainly not defending them.)  But I get the impression
> > that they do happen all the time.  In other words, the claim that
> > someone "deserves protection for all the work they did (or the
> > fees they paid) tracking down the old map and making the scan"
> > is apparently accepted in practice.
> >
>
> Not really. What is accepted is that you are free to try and claim
> copyright on PD material.

You are not "free to try and claim" so much as "it is very rare that
people ever get taken to court for false copyright claims over PD
material, even though it is illegal."

CORBIS does the same thing, by the way -- they have a huge number of
PD images in their photo collections which are labeled as (c) CORBIS.
I think it is ethically indefensible -- one can want to protect ones
labors how one wants but copyright is supposed to protect creativity,
and scanning something -- no matter how hard it was to find or track
down -- requires no creativity. There are other ways to protect
content and labors other than false claims of copyright (esp. in a
culture which is hypersensitive about copyright in days of late). It
is a gross abuse of the ignorance of most people about copyright law.

FF