subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
Well I am not sure if the editor is having a fight with anyone, but I do
know that some people may not like the things I said.

>From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
>Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking
>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:28:45 -0600
>
>I generally don't try removing these things. Probably before you remove one
>you should ask on the talk page if there is some continuing basis for it
>and
>not remove it if someone comes up with something in a few days. However a
>ban for one edit does seem severe unless there was something else. And yes,
>a warning ought to be given.
>
>A question though, were the editors of that article fighting over
>something?
>
>Fred
>
> > From: "Matthew Li" <li_ming20 at hotmail.com>
> > Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:11:46 -0700
> > To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
> > Subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking
> >
> > My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> > vandalism. According to what I have read in the blocking policy,
>vandalism
> > exists only if the user edited a significant portion of an article into
> > profanity or offensive contents or deleted the article. I never did any
>of
> > those. I just merely erased the dispute template on the article "Nanjing
> > Massacre". Even if this is "vandalism", how is it a "repeated
>vandalism"? I
> > have only done once! I erased the template in the article because the
> > article itself should not be disputed. I have posted comments in the
> > disscussion page in the same article and people agreed with me. Unless
>the
> > Wikipedia administrator is trying to repress voices that they don't like
>to
> > hear, there is no reason why I should be blocked. If you don't like what
>I
> > am doing, reply my comment or even send me a warning not to repeat what
>I
> > have done. However, I have received none of those. If I am blocked
>merely
> > because of the administrator don't like my opinion, then you are
>repressing
> > the democratic voices of the people and shame on you!
> >
> > AquaExecution, 2:11pm, 10 April, 2005
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>_______________________________________________
>WikiEN-l mailing list
>WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Fred Bauder

subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
I generally don't try removing these things. Probably before you remove one
you should ask on the talk page if there is some continuing basis for it and
not remove it if someone comes up with something in a few days. However a
ban for one edit does seem severe unless there was something else. And yes,
a warning ought to be given.

A question though, were the editors of that article fighting over something?

Fred

> From: "Matthew Li" <li_ming20 at hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:11:46 -0700
> To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking
>
> My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> vandalism. According to what I have read in the blocking policy, vandalism
> exists only if the user edited a significant portion of an article into
> profanity or offensive contents or deleted the article. I never did any of
> those. I just merely erased the dispute template on the article "Nanjing
> Massacre". Even if this is "vandalism", how is it a "repeated vandalism"? I
> have only done once! I erased the template in the article because the
> article itself should not be disputed. I have posted comments in the
> disscussion page in the same article and people agreed with me. Unless the
> Wikipedia administrator is trying to repress voices that they don't like to
> hear, there is no reason why I should be blocked. If you don't like what I
> am doing, reply my comment or even send me a warning not to repeat what I
> have done. However, I have received none of those. If I am blocked merely
> because of the administrator don't like my opinion, then you are repressing
> the democratic voices of the people and shame on you!
>
> AquaExecution, 2:11pm, 10 April, 2005
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Sarah

subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 3:26 PM, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 2005 11:11 PM, Matthew Li <li_ming20 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> > vandalism.
>
> Assuming you mean the block against 24.69.255.205 (which SlimVirgin
> has already removed), then repeated vandalism was made by that user,
> who could be someone who shares your IP address.

FYI, I unblocked 24.69.255.205 because another editor, who is
definitely not a vandal, e-mailed me to say it was also his address,
and asked that it be unblocked.

Sarah


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Walter Vermeir

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System (Re:
	Foundation news)

body:
Anthere schreef:

>
> The announcement list was just set up very recently (2 weeks I think),
> so is still in setting up stage (but please register).

Do you mean this list?
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-l

It is created in November 2002 whiteout success.

A idea for project wide communication;

Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System

The idea is to make a short internal news journal about stuff related to
Wikimedia and her projects.

I think whit a audio "newsletter" you will get a bigger audience. Users
will also quicker get involved I think.

Not a real internet radio. Only one "program" of a couple of minutes
every week. That is important, that there is always on a fix date a new
version. If not it will be dead very soon.

And the broadcast is only the posting of a url to the Ogg Vorbis file.
The can be done on the Foundation-l list and the Wiki's.

To start it could be a "Word of the Chief".  Every week a short voice
message from Jimbo about what he is doing this week and past week
regarding Wikimedia. If it successful there can be also some
intervention done by people form the different projects to tell about
news form there wiki. Or a message form a developer about how the
hosting situation is doing and changes to the software. That type of stuff.

But to start a very small and basic message from Jimbo. Like you would
say something in a voice mailbox. Nothing fancy.

Walter


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
I propose it be entirely in Klingon so that there are approximately
equal numbers of people from each Wikipedia who can understand it.

Rather than what you propose, why not a full-time internet radio? We
can have programs such as "Let's trim our hair in the Wikipedian
fashion", "Jimbo Wales' Birthday Celebration", "Biography of Jimbo
Wales" (who was born atop Encyclopedia Mountain, and who has never
lied and always lived in accordance with the Wikipedian ideal),
newsfeeds (with such news as "Imperialist Britannicans planning
nuclear attack on Wikipedia, Jimbo Wales counters with declaration of
the Wikimedia Foundation's nuclear capabilities"), and slogan hour
(where prominent Wikipedians shout out Klingon-language slogans about
Wikipedia, Jimbo, and related topics)

Mark

On Apr 10, 2005 2:14 PM, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> > Not a real internet radio. Only one "program" of a couple of minutes
> > every week. That is important, that there is always on a fix date a new
> > version. If not it will be dead very soon.
>
> Heh - Jimbo could have is weekly radio address right after GWB. :)
>
> -- mav
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)

body:
Yes. Why hasn't anybody done anything about this? Come on! It's a
disgrace that we have a Wikipedia with over 200 articles now (!) that
has so many technical problems which devs and everybody else have
seemingly turned a blind eye to. Remember, Ossetic is a natural
language with millions of speakers who use it on an everyday basis.
There are over 10 os.wikipedians now if I recall correctly.

Mark

On Apr 10, 2005 1:00 PM, V. Ivanov <amikeco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have tried several ways to draw attention to the problems of the new
> Wikipedia in Ossetic, but no changes about it occured. I feel ashamed
> to shout too much about those problems, for I know Wikimedia has lots
> of other things to do.
>
> Still today I've noticec someone has added a news about the
> os.wikipedia reaching 200 articles to
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News
> And there are at least TWO problems about that:
> - the original link (just [[:os:]]) didn't work, as none of
> interwikies to [[os:]] do.
> - I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable
> NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen
> at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).
>
> They say, our problems are on the bugzilla, and I have sent letters
> about them to this list and personally. What else could be done to fix
> those problems? It's mid-April already, a month and a half long
> problems apt to linger, I am afraid... :(
>
> Sl. Ivanov
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Wikipedia-l] privacy policy

body:
The privacy policy (lonnnnng awaited) was approved by the board at the
last meeting. It was just copied on foundation wiki.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy

It would be great that the policy be translated in all languages (see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy). Once most languages are
translated, we would like to link it from the footer of pages.

Ant


from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Yes. Why hasn't anybody done anything about this? Come on!

The interwiki link updater system seems to be broken, so it's waiting
until somebody has the chance to go over it.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/attachments/20050410/8541b1ea/attachment.pgp


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Don't forget to vote.

body:
Hi all,

Please don't forget to vote at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Translation_of_the_week/Translation_candidates

If you have already voted there, you should still vote as chances are
new candidates have been added since you voted, or you may wish to
change your votes.

Mark


from_name: Sj

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: "releasing into the public domain"

body:
This seems like a low worry but easy to fix problem.  (If there are
truly rickety aspects of making contributions PD via form submission,
than a project could change its default submission license one way or
another).  Deciding how and when we want ot exercise local notions of
"fair use" in uploading content, is higher worry but harder to fix.

We should get this right, and make sure [some subset of Wikipedians]
understand it, but it's not something worth confusing every PD
template over, or debating.  Just add it to the list of things to get
answered fully and completely by an expert copyright lawyer, the next
time we have one's undivided attention.

SJ

On Apr 9, 2005 11:21 AM, dpbsmith at verizon.net <dpbsmith at verizon.net> wrote:
> I am very most certainly not a lawyer.
>
> It seems to me any scenario in which there could be actual serious ugly
> monetary _trouble_ as a result of using something after the rights
> holder says "I release this into the public domain" must involve such
> an _extremely_ long chain of _extremely_ improbable circumstances that
> it can't possibly be worth worrying about.


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: privacy policy

body:
and I made a mistake of list ....

Anthere a ?crit:
> The privacy policy (lonnnnng awaited) was approved by the board at the
> last meeting. It was just copied on foundation wiki.
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
>
> It would be great that the policy be translated in all languages (see
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy). Once most languages are
> translated, we would like to link it from the footer of pages.
>
> Ant


list: foundation-l

subject: [Foundation-l] privacy policy

body:
Anthere a ?crit:
 > The privacy policy (lonnnnng awaited) was approved by the board at the
 > last meeting. It was just copied on foundation wiki.
 > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
 >
 > It would be great that the policy be translated in all languages (see
 > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy). Once most languages are
 > translated, we would like to link it from the footer of pages.
 >
 > Ant


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] privacy policy


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Kate Turner

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Lucene search

body:
Jonah Bossewitch wrote in gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical:

> I see from the wiki page that you have looked at PyLucene, but are you
> considering reapplying their strategy of wrapping the gcj using SWIG?  It
> looks like swig can now generate php bindings as well, leaving you with
> native, php access to the lucene apis.  PHPLucene?

> This might be precisely how you were planning on accessing the gcj lucene,

the design is client/server, so the specific implementation language of the
server isn't much of an issue - someone may want to rewrite it in Python
(or even PHP), but personally i don't see much gain from this.  the only
reason GCJ is used over another JVM is because of the license.

> but I wasn't sure.  After seeing a presentation on PyLucene at PyCon, I
> think the PyLucene people would be interested in seeing (maybe even
> helping) their project expand beyond just python bindings.

> best,
> Jonah

kate.


subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System (Re:
 Foundation news)

body:
Walter Vermeir a ?crit:
> Anthere schreef:
>
>
>>The announcement list was just set up very recently (2 weeks I think),
>>so is still in setting up stage (but please register).
>
>
> Do you mean this list?
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-l
>
> It is created in November 2002 whiteout success.

No.
I am not talking of the announcement for Wikipedia, but of a list which
will allow editors to ultimately receive Quarto by mail.

> A idea for project wide communication;
>
> Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System
>
> The idea is to make a short internal news journal about stuff related to
> Wikimedia and her projects.
>
> I think whit a audio "newsletter" you will get a bigger audience. Users
> will also quicker get involved I think.
>
> Not a real internet radio. Only one "program" of a couple of minutes
> every week. That is important, that there is always on a fix date a new
> version. If not it will be dead very soon.
>
> And the broadcast is only the posting of a url to the Ogg Vorbis file.
> The can be done on the Foundation-l list and the Wiki's.
>
> To start it could be a "Word of the Chief".  Every week a short voice
> message from Jimbo about what he is doing this week and past week
> regarding Wikimedia. If it successful there can be also some
> intervention done by people form the different projects to tell about
> news form there wiki. Or a message form a developer about how the
> hosting situation is doing and changes to the software. That type of stuff.
>
> But to start a very small and basic message from Jimbo. Like you would
> say something in a voice mailbox. Nothing fancy.
>
>
> Walter

Why not... but this will be then limited to those able to understand
english Walter. We always reach the same point :
do it in quick, have fresh news, but restricted to english speaking audience
take the time to translate and run the risk to be outdated.

I know not any solution :-(


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Problems with sending mail and the use of arrays
	with categories

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 8:38 AM, GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > * What's the hostname of the mail server?
>
> pop.gmail.com

Note that this is an *incoming* mail-server. Your client will be
sending mail *out* through a different server, which I'm guessing is
the one provided by your ISP or some other server you use to connect.

Meanwhile, on Apr 10, 2005 1:45 PM, David Gerard
<fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
> I can't send mail as being from dgerard at gmail.com or
> fun at thingy.apana.org.au through my copy of Thunderbird, which is sending
> mail through mail.zen.co.uk .

Aha, that could be the problem - note that GMail's instructions refer
to you using smtp.gmail.com
(http://gmail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=13285 step 10
onwards).

> First thought: has someone set up SPF on the Wikimedia servers?

That would make sense, because GMail does publish an SPF record, and
you are sending through the "wrong" server. The "correct" way round
that (according to SPF advocates) is to set up multiple SMTP servers
in your mail-client - if Thunderbird's interface is similar enough to
the one in Mozilla-MailNews, you'll need to click "Advanced..." under
"Outgoing Server" to add it, and then again under the "Server
Settings" page of your GMail account settings to use it.

To digress somewhat: As you may have noticed in the last paragraph, I
don't count myself as an advocate of SPF - it's heart is in the right
place, but it seems to break as many legitimate "tricks" of the e-mail
system as genuine abuses. I had to argue with my ISP for a couple of
weeks to stop them silently rejecting messages forwarded through a
private domain (yes, I should really be telling the forwarder to
change, but SRS looks even uglier to me).

Anyway, suffice to say that if someone *has* set up an SPF filter on
the Wikimedia servers, I wonder if it should be set to be less strict,
at least until such a time as more/most people have unbroken the
things SPF breaks.

[On a really technical note, GMail's SPF record seems to define
"everything else" as "neutral" not "fail"; it seems odd to me that
this should result in such stern rejections but I guess I don't really
know the mechanics - "v=spf1 a:mproxy.gmail.com a:rproxy.gmail.com
a:wproxy.gmail.com a:zproxy.gmail.com a:nproxy.gmail.com ?all"]

[Now it will probably turn out to be something completely unrelated,
and I'll look like a right ninny for ranting on. Ah, well...]

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Spambots

body:
Kate Turner wrote:
> that's quite consistent with someone loading some edit pages in browser
> tabs, submitting them all at once, and then loading a few more.  i've done
> it before myself, though for slightly more legitimite purposes...

Right, me too. I've tracked down the squid log entries for large-scale
vandal attacks several times, in most cases you see the user loading
edit pages (or move page confirmation pages) in batches beforehand, with
a typical user agent and all referrers intact. Faking referrers is
possible, but the confirmed bot authors haven't bothered. They usually
start with the simplest script possible, and then progressively add
stealth features as we add filters and throttles, in an arms race.

Never underestimate the power of a bored teenager with Firefox.

-- Tim Starling


subject:
[WikiEN-l] Opportunity for en-wikipedia to get in contact with
	IBM..

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 12:22 PM, Mathias Schindler <neubau at presroi.de> wrote:
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog_comments.jspa?blog=384&entry=68433
> Bob meets wiki
> posted by Bob Sutor on 2004 Dec 16 04:44 PM

> Maybe someone might want to email him. After all, this is only 4 month old.

A fine idea.

This makes me realize, however... that there's no easy way to go
through the Recent Changes from Dec 15, 2004.

--
+sj+
 _ _ :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]


from_name: Alphax

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Spambots

references:
<008901c53c95$00da5730$152aa8c0@hedlatora>
	<d381li$o5k$1@sea.gmane.org> <d383fh$rq7$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<002801c53d26$bec0b8c0$a3be9c51@hedlatora>
	<2709382.X6HruMZaWc@rose.local> <d3aoor$d4s$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Tim Starling wrote:

<snip>

>Never underestimate the power of a bored teenager with Firefox.
>
>-- Tim Starling
>
>
Never underestimate the power of a dedicated Wikipedian with Firefox,
either.

--
Alphax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis


from_name: Angela

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 4:07 PM, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:

> Do you mean this list?
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-l

No, this one: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-news-l
It hasn't been used yet. Posts to it will currently be moderated by Sj
and Anthere.

Angela.


from_name: Geoff Burling

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Reliable, selectable content

body:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> >
> I think it's important to remember that we are talking about a first
> edition.  That does not need to have everything, or even to cover all
> subjects.  Many topics can be expanded in future editions.  The first
> edition should emphasize those areas where we have the best
> representation, and where there are fewest holes that need to be
> filled.  Having something in your hand that you can build on will be a
> great encouragement for everybody.  As things stand on this topic I
> think there are too many people sitting around dreaming of perfection.
> Perfectionism is also a big problem in the education of gifted children.
>
The point of my suggestion was to find somewhere to begin in accepting
Wikipedia material for the 1.0 version. If accepted, then the catagories
of material for the English Wikipedia 1.0 would be:

1. Featured Articles
2. All other criteria

If a consensus refuses to emerge on what point #2 should cover -- in part or
in whole -- then when the number of articles under point #1 reach 50,000
the discussion is over, & we go with what we have.

Even if that includes articles like [[Fuck]] and [[autofellatio]]. (Which
would put pressure on the committee to come up with a definition of what
falls under #2 -- & that would be a good thing.)

Geoff


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject: [Wikitech-l] Lucene search

body:
Please consider also to update and use our new page
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/FulltextSearchEngines

TIA,
Tom


subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
Oh Anthere...

Cruel and insensible fate !!

I hold you in my heart

sj


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


body:
Angela a ?crit:
> On Apr 10, 2005 4:07 PM, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
>
>
>>Do you mean this list?
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-l
>
>
> No, this one: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-news-l
> It hasn't been used yet. Posts to it will currently be moderated by Sj
> and Anthere.
>
> Angela.

Hmmm, well, for at least a while, I think this list will only be used to
send Quarto, so the sender will be someone from Quarto team.

Now, if we also use this list to send any announcement from the
Foundation, it might absolutely be Jimbo, Angela, Tim, Michael, and very
likely a couple more people, such as typically Mav. This use has not
been discussed (yet ?). As far as I am concerned, if tomorrow, a big
stuff show up, if Ang wants to inform people through this mean, this is
absolutely okay with me of course. It just has not been discussed for
now. I am not sure we want to multiply the number of mean to inform
people... however, a rather big number of editors wished to receive the
information Quarto was published, or even Quarto itself by mail. I just
figured we should not create just a list for Quarto, so chose a rather
neutral name which could be used for other announcements from time to time.

Ant


from_name: Walter van Kalken

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Walking like an Egyptian?

body:
Hello Robert .....

The english wikipedia indeed has an overly complicated system for
deletion. You can find it at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VFD

if I am correct. At nl we have a somewhat easier method. Good luck in
dealing with the inclusionist, deletionist and other factions that hang
around there.

>Him: "To get across this road you must walk like an Egyptian".
>
>I was immediately reminded of Pat Benatar and wondered where he was going
>with this.
>
>
You must mean the Bangles btw ;)

Waerth

Mainly active on the Dutch wikipedia


from_name: Deathphoenix

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
Christopher Larberg wrote:

>Incidentally, if we do establish some sort of organized April Fools'
>Day prank, we may want to ask the folks here for help:
>http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Main_Page. Someone linked it in
>#wikipedia; it's like a constant April 1st version of Wikipedia. For
>example, see their entry on the Isle of Man: "The Isle of Man does not
>exist-Man is not an Isle!"
>
>
That's pretty funny. It might not be a bad idea to link to that page on
April 1 next year.

DPh


from_name: Cormac Lawler

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System (Re:
	Foundation news)

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 7:45 PM, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

(Re: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-news-l)>

> Hmmm, well, for at least a while, I think this list will only be used to
> send Quarto, so the sender will be someone from Quarto team.
>
> Now, if we also use this list to send any announcement from the
> Foundation, it might absolutely be Jimbo, Angela, Tim, Michael, and very
> likely a couple more people, such as typically Mav. This use has not
> been discussed (yet ?). As far as I am concerned, if tomorrow, a big
> stuff show up, if Ang wants to inform people through this mean, this is
> absolutely okay with me of course. It just has not been discussed for
> now. I am not sure we want to multiply the number of mean to inform
> people... however, a rather big number of editors wished to receive the
> information Quarto was published, or even Quarto itself by mail. I just
> figured we should not create just a list for Quarto, so chose a rather
> neutral name which could be used for other announcements from time to time.
>
> Ant

The list came from a request some people had made to receive quarto by
email and a draft email is being worked on at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WQ and is currently in need of
translation. If this list is going to be more than a purely
quarto-related list, it could, and i believe, should be a
multi-lingual announcement list. This means as Anthere correctly
points out that notices will be delayed due to having to be translated
(though maybe it could be prioritised on Meta [[translation requests]]
page?). Or maybe we are just duplicating [[:m:Goings on]]?
It seems to be a bit strange to be discussing one list on another list
so I'm ccing this to foundation-news-l - I think the first post to the
list :) Maybe we can use this thread to discuss the list there and
what it's going to be used for.
I agree that it is difficult to keep up with what's happening and even
easy to miss something interesting. Michael Snow's Signpost
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost is excellent
in this regard (though it is only in English)
Cormac


from_name: Mathias Schindler

subject: [WikiEN-l] Opportunity for en-wikipedia to get in contact with IBM..

body:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog_comments.jspa?blog=384&entry=68433

Bob Sutor is the Vice President of Standards and Open Source for the IBM
Corporation.

Bob meets wiki
posted by Bob Sutor on 2004 Dec 16 04:44 PM

Last night I had my first wiki experience and it wasn't pretty.

...

"So last night I was poking around Wikipedia and found an entry that I
thought was truly wanting: it didn't have specific enough links to the
authoritative places on the web for some of the content. I duly added
these, saw them in the entry, was very proud, and they promptly went
away. A sysop had decided that that level of external linkage was not
appropriate. I was really annoyed."

Maybe someone might want to email him. After all, this is only 4 month old.

Mathias


from_name: Patrick Collison

subject: [Wikitech-l] Touchgraph

body:
That's quite cool. Is the source code available somewhere?

On 10 Aib 2005, at 21:44, FxParlant wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to build a Touchgraph representation of the links in
> mediawiki. I really liked this mind-map model of nodes in tikiwiki,
> and thought it could interest some people here... people who could
> also help because there are some big problems.
>
> Here is my demo:
> http://www.fxparlant.net/Special:Touchgraph
> and here is the thread where I describe it:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.mediawiki/4486
>
> thanks for any contribution
> Fran?ois
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>


subject: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikipedia-l] Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)

body:
(forwarding from Wikipedia-l)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: V. Ivanov <amikeco at gmail.com>
Date: Apr 10, 2005 10:00 PM
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)
To: wikipedia-l at wikimedia.org

Hello,

I have tried several ways to draw attention to the problems of the new
Wikipedia in Ossetic, but no changes about it occured. I feel ashamed
to shout too much about those problems, for I know Wikimedia has lots
of other things to do.

Still today I've noticec someone has added a news about the
os.wikipedia reaching 200 articles to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News
And there are at least TWO problems about that:
- the original link (just [[:os:]]) didn't work, as none of
interwikies to [[os:]] do.
- I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable
NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen
at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).

They say, our problems are on the bugzilla, and I have sent letters
about them to this list and personally. What else could be done to fix
those problems? It's mid-April already, a month and a half long
problems apt to linger, I am afraid... :(

Sl. Ivanov
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

--
Angela Beesley
Wikimedia.org
Wikicities.com


from_name: FxParlant

subject: [Wikitech-l] Touchgraph

body:
Hi,

I'm trying to build a Touchgraph representation of the links in
mediawiki. I really liked this mind-map model of nodes in tikiwiki, and
thought it could interest some people here... people who could also help
because there are some big problems.

Here is my demo:
http://www.fxparlant.net/Special:Touchgraph
and here is the thread where I describe it:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.mediawiki/4486

thanks for any contribution
Fran?ois


from_name: David Gerard

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Problems with sending mail and the use of arrays
	with	categories

body:
Brion Vibber (brion at pobox.com) [050410 17:07]:
> GerardM wrote:

> >Hoi,
> >I am registered to the list, I could send mail using my thunderbird
> >application. Now I cannot. I can send mail through the webmail
> >facility of gmail.

> Can you elaborate on this? Some details would help:

I can't send mail as being from dgerard at gmail.com or
fun at thingy.apana.org.au through my copy of Thunderbird, which is sending
mail through mail.zen.co.uk .

First thought: has someone set up SPF on the Wikimedia servers?

- d.


from_name: Christopher Larberg

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: privacy policy

body:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 03:45:23 +0200, Elisabeth Bauer <elian at djini.de> wrote:
> It _may_ be exposed. If you are a regular contributor you may ask for a
> cloak on [...].
Even without cloaks, the IP is usually (but not always) replaced with
a hostmask. Also, anyone can ask for a generic cloak on Freenode.

--Slowking Man


body:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:11:50 -0700, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rather than what you propose, why not a full-time internet radio? We
> can have programs such as "Let's trim our hair in the Wikipedian
> fashion", "Jimbo Wales' Birthday Celebration", "Biography of Jimbo
> Wales" (who was born atop Encyclopedia Mountain, and who has never
> lied and always lived in accordance with the Wikipedian ideal),
> newsfeeds (with such news as "Imperialist Britannicans planning
> nuclear attack on Wikipedia, Jimbo Wales counters with declaration of
> the Wikimedia Foundation's nuclear capabilities"), and slogan hour
> (where prominent Wikipedians shout out Klingon-language slogans about
> Wikipedia, Jimbo, and related topics)

Don't forget the hourly broadcast of the Wikipedia national anthem
(found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Web_Encyclopedia_Song).

--Slowking Man


subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
On Apr 10, 2005 11:11 PM, Matthew Li <li_ming20 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> vandalism.

Assuming you mean the block against 24.69.255.205 (which SlimVirgin
has already removed), then repeated vandalism was made by that user,
who could be someone who shares your IP address. See
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mma_troll&diff=12113112&oldid=12112893>
for example, and the various warnings at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:24.69.255.205>.

Angela.

--
Angela Beesley
Wikimedia.org
Wikicities.com


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
Hello,

Matthew Li wrote:
> My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> vandalism. According to what I have read in the blocking policy,
> vandalism exists only if the user edited a significant portion of an
> article into profanity or offensive contents or deleted the article. I
> never did any of those. I just merely erased the dispute template on the
> article "Nanjing Massacre". Even if this is "vandalism", how is it a
> "repeated vandalism"? I have only done once! I erased the template in
> the article because the article itself should not be disputed. I have
> posted comments in the disscussion page in the same article and people
> agreed with me. Unless the Wikipedia administrator is trying to repress
> voices that they don't like to hear, there is no reason why I should be
> blocked. If you don't like what I am doing, reply my comment or even
> send me a warning not to repeat what I have done. However, I have
> received none of those. If I am blocked merely because of the
> administrator don't like my opinion, then you are repressing the
> democratic voices of the people and shame on you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nanjing_Massacre&diff=prev&oldid=12118590
Is this your edit?

The blocking was probably because of other, later edits by the same IP
address, such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mma_troll&diff=prev&oldid=12112319
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mma_troll&diff=prev&oldid=12112340
etc.

HTH,
elian


from_name: Lee Daniel Crocker

subject: [Wikitech-l] Lucene search

body:
On Sun, 2005-04-10 at 05:17 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
> Kate's Lucene-based search server is now up and running experimentally

Cool...so where's the code?

I'd like to try this out under stress with my test suite (which I
just resurrected from the CVS attic).

For anyone else who might be interested in the test suite, which
actually tests the wiki over-the-web with multi-threaded fetches
and searches and such and shares no code at all with mediawiki,
making it a proper QA test, I've put it on my subversion server
(I don't much like CVS):  http://piclab.com/svn/wikitest

It compiles and runs, and loads the wiki with lots of sample
pages, but most of the actual tests fail now because the wiki
doesn't much resemble what it did when I wrote the tests--so I'll
be fixing that in the next few days.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee at piclab.com>  <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
<http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/


from_name: Arwel Parry

subject: [Wikipedia-l] privacy policy

body:
Anthere wrote:

> The privacy policy (lonnnnng awaited) was approved by the board at the
> last meeting. It was just copied on foundation wiki.
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
>
> It would be great that the policy be translated in all languages (see
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy). Once most languages
> are translated, we would like to link it from the footer of pages.
>
Welsh translation at [[:cy:Wicipedia:Polisi_preifatrwydd]]

--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Lucene search

body:
Lee Daniel Crocker wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-04-10 at 05:17 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
>
>>Kate's Lucene-based search server is now up and running experimentally
>
>
> Cool...so where's the code?

lucene-search module in CVS.

I'm still fiddling with my C# version also, which has not yet been
checked into CVS.

> I'd like to try this out under stress with my test suite (which I
> just resurrected from the CVS attic).
>
> For anyone else who might be interested in the test suite, which
> actually tests the wiki over-the-web with multi-threaded fetches
> and searches and such and shares no code at all with mediawiki,
> making it a proper QA test, I've put it on my subversion server
> (I don't much like CVS):  http://piclab.com/svn/wikitest

Personally, I'd prefer to see more work on the internal parser tests and
unit tests.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050410/4ca3e884/attachment.pgp>


from_name: V. Ivanov

body:
Hello,

I have tried several ways to draw attention to the problems of the new
Wikipedia in Ossetic, but no changes about it occured. I feel ashamed
to shout too much about those problems, for I know Wikimedia has lots
of other things to do.

Still today I've noticec someone has added a news about the
os.wikipedia reaching 200 articles to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News
And there are at least TWO problems about that:
- the original link (just [[:os:]]) didn't work, as none of
interwikies to [[os:]] do.
- I don't know where the person took the data, for the variable
NUMBEROFARTICLES doesn't work at os.wikipedia.org (as it can be seen
at the bottom of the front page: it shows "-1" exactly).

They say, our problems are on the bugzilla, and I have sent letters
about them to this list and personally. What else could be done to fix
those problems? It's mid-April already, a month and a half long
problems apt to linger, I am afraid... :(

Sl. Ivanov


from_name: Rex

subject: [WikiEN-l] Blocked user report

body:
To whom it may concern,
Please see below, an email I sent to Jimbo Wales on 04.09.05
This email may also interest various Wiki Admins.
Any help I can receive with this will be appreciated
++++++++++++++++++++

04.09.05

Greetings:

I am Wiki user 216.153.214.94.

Last year, until I lost interest in logging-in, I edited as Rex071404.
For most Admins I've communicated with though,  it's common knowledge that 216.153.214.94 is Rex071404.

Recently, on 04.07.05, I was blocked by IP indefinitely by Neutrality.
Being unable to log in or edit from that IP, I left a message on Meelar's talk page (for reasons that would be made clear if the post were read) from a secondary IP address of 216.153.214.93.

Though I have access to many IP addresses, I have refrained from attempting to use any because, ruckus raising or evasion is not my intent. Rather, my intent has been (albeit poorly executed) to oppose/balance out what I see is a serious imbalance of POV in various USA politics related articles. And, while doing that, I have from time to time added some thoughtful talk page comments and started a few worthwhile pages.

I'm curious to know what your thoughts about some of the brouhahas I have been involved in might be.
In particular, for an example, please take a close look at the "Killian documents" article or "John Kerry" and tell me if you would, are you in agreement that each and every edit I've tried to make there since basically forever ought to have been reverted (as they have been)? I simply cannot fathom where the depth of opposition is coming from.

Here's a case in point: On the "John Kerry" page, there is a link to the wiki-page of the 'pro-Kerry' documentary of "Going Upriver", but no matter how you try to insert it, a link to the wiki-page of the 'anti-Kerry'  "Stolen Honor" documentary gets deleted.

Frankly, I fail to see why the wiki doesn't simply delete "Stolen Honor" if it's not going to be allowed to be incorporated by link reference into articles which pertain to the main subject matter of the documentary itself. Also, take notice that it was me, editing as Rex071404 who started the Stolen Honor page (and defended it from relentless revert and debasement attack).

At this point, I am not sure what to think about your otherwise noble goal of a free encyclopedia. How can an information source be considered valid if opposing views are simply shooed away?

Take a look at some of the talk page dialogs I have engaged in at:
"Lawrence v. Texas"
"Monty Hall Problem"
"Dedham Massachusetts"
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"
"Killian Documents"
"Axis of Evil", etc.

You may have to look at some last fall entries to get a clear picture. One thing you will notice is that I've never, not once, ever quit a dialog on a talk page with open questions or comments directed at me going unanswered. But, you'll also notice that my opponents such as JamesMLane, Neutrality, Gamaliel and Antaeus Feldspar simply quit trains of dialog when they are boxed in.

For example, it's been almost a year, but JamesMLane has NEVER answered the question which I posed to him on at least 10 occasions; yes or no, is it true that John Kerry's first wound was "minor"? The amount of fighting I was forced to endure trying to get and answer to that (or alternatively, get that word into the article) was enormous. Frankly, I don't see how one can care about all the irrelevant minutiae which is included in the Kerry article, but still be so opposed to allowing the word "minor" in to describe an injury which required no stitches and caused no loss of duty. How much less consequential of an injury can one get?

As another example, at Killian documents, there is no coherent explanation of even the undisputed facts concerning the "provenance" of the so-called documents. Indeed, even getting the word "provenance" into the article required a major fight.

Personally, I feel that on politically related articles, there is too much of a left-wing bias and the "mob-rule" plan of "consensus" gives only the entrenched side with more votes a voice - everyone else is silenced. Certainly, some of the recent comments by users such as Cecropia and 172 cannot be dismissed out of hand.

Jim, I've looked into some of your background edits on the Wiki, you seem to be a very smart guy. But, I am puzzled that you don't seem to have noticed the political bias issue on the Wiki.

I have 3 questions:

1) Have you noticed that political related articles are a bone of contention?
2) Have you lost any editors from the WIki (who you consider good editors) that have cited anything akin to "mob-rule" problems as a reason for leaving.
3) And if yes to #2, are you open to dialoging with me via email various things related to what I have commented on above (or anything else you might feel is germane)?

Please advise.

Warmest Regards,
216.153.214.94
-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005


subject: [Wikitech-l] Lucene search

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
>> I'd like to try this out under stress with my test suite (which I
>> just resurrected from the CVS attic).
>>
>> For anyone else who might be interested in the test suite, which
>> actually tests the wiki over-the-web with multi-threaded fetches
>> and searches and such and shares no code at all with mediawiki,
>> making it a proper QA test, I've put it on my subversion server
>> (I don't much like CVS):  http://piclab.com/svn/wikitest
>
> Personally, I'd prefer to see more work on the internal parser tests and
> unit tests.

I should note that I don't necessarily think an HTTP-based test suite is
useless; such tests would be necessary to validate HTTP caching
behavior, link resolution, etc.

But the variability of the user interface makes it really hard to do
anything useful with an HTML screen-scraper, and that includes automated
testing. Lower-level tests that hook into the code should a) be able to
effectively test things that are hard or impossible to test from
outside, and b) promotes the ongoing modularisation of the code.

The parser test suite is run from maintenance/parserTests.php (test
cases in maintenance/parserTests.txt). There are some PhpUnit-based unit
tests in tests/ also, but these aren't very complete and haven't been
kept up to date for changes in HEAD.

There's also some standalone tests for the Unicode validation and
normalization library in includes/normal/.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050411/1d34c338/attachment.pgp>


from_name: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

subject: [Wikipedia-l] privacy policy

body:
I have several issues with it:

* "identified by your network IP address. This is a series of four
numbers" <- too technical, and won't hold true for IPv6

* "It will be deleted when you close your browser session." <- depends
on the browser

* "By participating to an IRC channel, your IP address will be exposed
to other participants." <- this is plain wrong *especially* on
freenode. (cloaks anyone?)

* "Once created, user accounts can not be removed. " <- yes they can,
you probably meant to say "won't"


subject: [Wikipedia-l] privacy policy

body:
> > * "Once created, user accounts can not be removed. " <- yes they can,
> > you probably meant to say "won't"
>
> Once created, user accounts with contributions can't be removed.
>
> (We have to retain the history)
>

You're like the ones that wrote that page confusing a technical
impossibility with something deemed undesirable.


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
I would like to speak with an open mind here.

Some rumors have been circulating in the past 2/3 days, which I find
quite disturbing. Just today, two totally unrelated people told me (in
good faith) that they just learned I was resigning.

Since I did not say I resigned, but rather spent a big number of hours
last week on the press release for the yahoo agreement, preparation of
next week presentations, and discussion on juriwiki-l issue, I do not
see very well where this comes from.

So, I call it a rumor.

I do not know who launched this rumor, but I cannot help thinking that
this is related to the forthcoming elections, and part of a strategy of
some candidates campaigning or others supporting some future candidates.

I think this is very highly improper. I suppose that many games are
acceptable when running for an election, but still...

So, I would like to clarify things.

First. I am not resigning from the board. My ethics is such that while I
engaged myself to be on the board for one year, I will be there for the
full year. I may be there a lot, or not there a lot, or on a wikibreak,
but that does not mean I resign.

In one year, I made 3 breaks. One week in summer when I was at my mom's.
Two weeks at christmas when I went in Algeria. One week in february to
ski... The rest of the time, I have always been there, every day.

Somewhere in february, I expressed my terrible tiredness. I was
pregnant, and suddenly, could not handle any more having a full time job
during the day, taking care of the kids and husband, spending the night
on wikipedia, throwing up several times a day, and being very drowsy
from the new life in me growing; Additionnaly, several editors bugged me
so much, that I thought of the expression "get a life !".

I consequently expressed my strong desire for a break.
Because frankly, as much as I care for the project, there is a point
when you think "what on earth am I doing here getting exhausted by
buggers, when I should just be having a rest ?".

It could never be, as the next day, I had 3 phone calls... and issues to
take care of. However, I made an agreement with myself, to go to bed
everyday before midnight :-) I respected it overall.

Two weeks ago, it became obvious something was badly going on with the
baby. If only because I was less tired... Last week, I went to medical
care where they told me it was very likely dead, and ask me to wait a
week. The baby is now gone, and it is hard to say how it feels to lose a
life after 3 months. Those who already lived this know. This whole week
of plain despair, I was here nevertheless. Because there were things to do.

In a few hours, I will leave for northern europe, to spent a whole week
of my real life holidays presenting wikipedia. I am still having
contractions. Very likely, you will not hear from me, because I have no
portable computer.

That does not mean I am resigning. Right ?

I wish that discussions over next elections start soon and that 2 or 3
people propose themselves for the organisation of them. I also wish that
people remember we have the same goal and take care of keeping a decent
behavior... such as proving how great they could be as board members,
rather than using methods to lower others.

Do I sound harsh ? Sorry if I do. Last 10 days have been hard.

ant


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
Florence,

since you stated it publicly, please let me express publicly my very
heartfelt and sincere condolences for your loss. I cannot imagine what
it must be like to go through something like this. :-( :-( :-(

If anything I said over the last few weeks contributed to your stress
level, I apologize. I hope that you will, besides all Wikimedia
nonsense, find some quiet time with your friends and loved ones.

...

It's hard to say anything else.

...

Let me just say this: I have no idea where those rumors are coming from,
but rest assured that I would find any attempt to spread misinformation
just as despicable as you do. I sincerely hope that there are no members
of our project who would stoop to that level. We may have our
disagreements, but I would never question your passion and dedication to
  our common cause.

Hugs & lots of WikiLove,

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


subject: [Wikipedia-l] privacy policy

body:
?var Arnfj?r? Bjarmason wrote:

> * "By participating to an IRC channel, your IP address will be exposed
> to other participants." <- this is plain wrong *especially* on
> freenode. (cloaks anyone?)

It _may_ be exposed. If you are a regular contributor you may ask for a
cloak on [...].

> * "Once created, user accounts can not be removed. " <- yes they can,
> you probably meant to say "won't"

Once created, user accounts with contributions can't be removed.

(We have to retain the history)

*greetings*
elian


from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
I completely echo what Erik wrote. I'm truly sorry that you had to
experience this. Remember that although you're presenting Wikipedia,
you are also meant to be on holiday, so I hope that you will find time
while you're away to rest and to deal with this shock. :'(

I haven't heard any rumours about you resigning and I don't know where
such a misunderstanding would come from, but I can't imagine any
potential election candidates would be spreading them. I agree with
you that discussions over the form the next elections will take need
to begin soon.

If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know. I'm sure
there are plenty of people willing to help if you need to have a
longer break from this.

Take care,

Angela.


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikitech-l] Image metadata in database

body:
In 1.5 (assuming there are no objections), image width, height and bit
depth will be available in the image table of the database. This is
mainly for scalability. It allows replication and read load distribution
of this commonly requested data to be handled by the database, where we
already have tools for such things. A simple future extension would be
to bundle metadata queries for all images to be displayed on a page into
a single query. This is only a few lines away now, but was not possible
with the original NFS-based system.

Thumbnails are still not handled in a way suitable for our scalability
goals, this will be my next task.

The code is in CVS.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
Anthere wrote:

> Some rumors have been circulating in the past 2/3 days, which I find
> quite disturbing. Just today, two totally unrelated people told me (in
> good faith) that they just learned I was resigning.

I would first want to extend my sincere sympathies for your loss.  It is
far too easy to see each others only as on-line personalities while
ignoring the fact that we do all have private lives, each with a full
range of joys and sorrows.

I learned long ago not to put faith in rumours, especially not political
ones.  I had not heard this particular rumour, but before believing such
a thing I would certainly have looked for confirmation from you.  My
experience here has been that many things are said by many people based
only on their imagination of reality.  I can ignore this most of the
time, but there are other occasions when I can react with sarcasm.

I look forward not only to your completing your current term, but also
to your having many more such terms.  Your dedication to the project is
unquestioned, your accomplishments are highly commendable, and your
grasp of the philosophical underpinings of openness is a rare quality
which too many of its claimed supporters fail to understand or, more
importantly, fail to live.

Ec


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


subject: [Foundation-l] Commons music playlist

body:
Hi,

for those who need a distraction, I just discovered Raul654's very nice
list of free music files uploaded to the Commons so far (by himself,
OldakQuill, Whyameye, and a few others):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sound/list

I made a playlist out of it which you can view at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sound/list/playlist

Paste the URLs into a text file called "playlist.m3u" and load it with
your favorite MP3/OGG player - it should automatically stream them from
our servers if you have enough bandwidth. Lots of classical, but some
modern stuff as well.

This is not completely off-topic -- I'm working on a press release for
the 100,000th media file uploaded to the Commons (we're currently at
70,000). Of course we're going to point out our large collection of
songs, among other neat things. Help appreciated:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Press_releases/100K

(English for now, call for translations will be separate.)

Enjoy,

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] Commons music playlist


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Touchgraph

body:
Hi,

I just threw this online for you,
http://www.fxparlant.net/Touchgraph
I'm off to work, if something is missing, I'll add it on this evening
(Europe time)

fran?ois

Patrick Collison wrote:
> That's quite cool. Is the source code available somewhere?
>
> On 10 Aib 2005, at 21:44, FxParlant wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to build a Touchgraph representation of the links in
>> mediawiki. I really liked this mind-map model of nodes in tikiwiki,
>> and thought it could interest some people here... people who could
>> also help because there are some big problems.
>>
>> Here is my demo:
>> http://www.fxparlant.net/Special:Touchgraph
>> and here is the thread where I describe it:
>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.mediawiki/4486
>>
>> thanks for any contribution
>> Fran?ois
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
--- Aphaia <aphaia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ma che`re Florence,
>
> Let me join the chor of condolences for your loss and grievance. And I
> am appreciate you to let us share it.

yes - me too. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss ant.

-- mav

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


subject: [Wikitech-l] Lucene search

body:
On Sun, 2005-04-10 at 23:48 -0700, Brion Vibber wrote:
> Personally, I'd prefer to see more work on the internal parser tests and
> unit tests.

Those are probably more important for keeping the existing software
running smoothly, and I certainly join you in encouraging their
development.  But the external tests are more useful for testing the
impact of big changes, like a new search engine, various server task
splitting methods, database schema changes, and so on.  And of course,
parser tests on either side aren't very meaningful until there's a
formally defined syntax, but I'm working on that too.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee at piclab.com>  <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
<http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/


from_name: zhengzhu

subject: [Wikitech-l] Different alphabets for the same language

body:
With Monk's help, I have implemented a preliminary system for
conversion between cyrillics and lation for BE. There is a test site
at

http://s87257573.onlinehome.us/be/

--
zhengzhu


subject: [WikiEN-l] Protest againt blocking

body:
Angela (beesley at gmail.com) [050411 07:26]:
> On Apr 10, 2005 11:11 PM, Matthew Li <li_ming20 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> > My IP has been blocked by RickK. The reason he gave me is repeated
> > vandalism.

> Assuming you mean the block against 24.69.255.205 (which SlimVirgin

That's a Shaw Cable IP address. Do Shaw do dynamic IPs for home cable
customers? If so, does anyone know how logn the DHCP lease is for?

Matthew, is that your home IP, or something like it? There's an *outside*
chance something could be running as an open proxy on it, though I just
tried it and it didn't work as one for me.

- d.


from_name: Magnus Manske

subject: [Wikitech-l] Image metadata in database

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tim Starling schrieb:
> In 1.5 (assuming there are no objections), image width, height and bit
> depth will be available in the image table of the database. This is
> mainly for scalability. It allows replication and read load distribution
> of this commonly requested data to be handled by the database, where we
> already have tools for such things. A simple future extension would be
> to bundle metadata queries for all images to be displayed on a page into
> a single query. This is only a few lines away now, but was not possible
> with the original NFS-based system.

Nice! While you're at it, would it make sense to include a field for the
media type (not the file type) as well? Like, "image", "audio", "video",
coded as integer values.

That would make (interface to-be-written) searches for media easier on
the database, compared to

 ... WHERE img_name LIKE "%.jpg" OR img_name LIKE "%.jpeg" OR img_name
LIKE "%.png" OR img_name LIKE "%.gif" OR img_name LIKE "%.tif"

Magnus
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCWiXSCZKBJbEFcz0RArhGAJ4qWapQIPHiIvtP0dUhVnPMUQTEsgCfToCh
YZCou0YR0RJBA9/TFyNBSC4=
=H3E6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


body:
On Apr 11, 2005 3:16 AM, Mark Williamson wrote:
> has so many technical problems which devs and everybody else have
> seemingly turned a blind eye to. Remember, Ossetic is a natural
> language with millions of speakers who use it on an everyday basis.

 Probably less than a million in fact. But it's really one of the
largest languages of Caucasus. Some speakers live in Turkey (emigrants
of 19th century) and in the western countries (nowadays emigrants).

> There are over 10 os.wikipedians now if I recall correctly.

 28, but not all of them active. Well, about 10 wikipedians at least
tried to use the wiki:
 http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Listusers

Sl.

--
Esperu cxiam!


from_name: ultrablue at gmail.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Matthew Li block, 24.69.255.205 - it's a proxy.

body:
I've put a proxy notice at the top of the user talk page. Is there
something else that needs to be done?

~Mark Ryan

On Apr 11, 2005 8:18 AM, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
> 24.69.255.205 is a Shaw Cable *proxy* (px4wh.vc.shawcable.net). So it
> shouldn't be blocked except for very short times.
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: David Gerard

body:
24.69.255.205 is a Shaw Cable *proxy* (px4wh.vc.shawcable.net). So it
shouldn't be blocked except for very short times.

- d.


from_name: Aphaia

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
Ma che`re Florence,

Let me join the chor of condolences for your loss and grievance. And I
am appreciate you to let us share it.

How sad and sorry I here that. And I apologize you that I was less
help for you than you were always a great help for me. Specially with
my recent unrecognized torment with some local issues ... If there is
still I could help you, feel free to say. And as Angela says, plenty
of people think so.

Your days in Stockholm and Helsinki be good holidays and good remedies
for your sorrow.

Kisses and hugs,

--
Aphaea@*.wikipedia.org
email: Aphaia @ gmail (dot) com


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


from_name: Wouter Steenbeek

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Internal Radio System
	(Re:Foundation news)

body:
>I propose it be entirely in Klingon so that there are approximately
>equal numbers of people from each Wikipedia who can understand it.
>
>Rather than what you propose, why not a full-time internet radio? We
>can have programs such as "Let's trim our hair in the Wikipedian
>fashion", "Jimbo Wales' Birthday Celebration", "Biography of Jimbo
>Wales" (who was born atop Encyclopedia Mountain, and who has never
>lied and always lived in accordance with the Wikipedian ideal),
>newsfeeds (with such news as "Imperialist Britannicans planning
>nuclear attack on Wikipedia, Jimbo Wales counters with declaration of
>the Wikimedia Foundation's nuclear capabilities"), and slogan hour
>(where prominent Wikipedians shout out Klingon-language slogans about
>Wikipedia, Jimbo, and related topics)
>
>Mark

Funny Mark, but you're going too far. You are comparing Jimbo with Kim Yong
Il or some other absurdly glorified dictator. Moreover, I think this attemp
is not as moribund as you suggest.

I appreciate most of your contributions and I share your sympathy for
demographic minorities, but I can't really get your point in this. It
reminds me very much of your earlier e-mail in which you requested two kinds
of American English, Jimbonian and Nodelian. What's your point with jokes
like these?

Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
Gebruik MSN Messenger en krijg direct antwoord http://messenger.msn.nl/


from_name: Karthik Gopalakrishnan

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to modify the default content of edit page in
	Mediawiki 1.4rc.

body:
Hi,

When I create a new article or start a new talk, On the edit page it
shows  the following text and then shows the text area to add our
text. I want to modify this  default content. How do I do and which
file should I modify.

Creating a new article "Asdlasd"  it shows this text on the edit page.
------------------------------
Editing Asdlasd

Wikipedia does not yet have a page called Asdlasd.

    * To start the page, begin typing in the box below. When you're
done, press the "Save page" button. Your changes should be visible
immediately.
    * If you have created this page in the past few minutes and it has
not yet appeared, it may not be visible due to a delay in updating the
database. Please wait and check again later before attempting to
recreate the page.
    * If this is an article page (as opposed to e.g. a discussion page):
          o Please do not create an article to promote yourself, a
website, a product, or a business (see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is
not).
          o If you are new to Wikipedia, please read the tutorial
before creating your first article, and only use the sandbox for
editing experiments.
          o Search for Asdlasd in Wikipedia
-------------------------

Please Help !!!

Bye,
Karthik.G


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: [Wikitech-l] Image metadata in database

body:
On Apr 11, 2005 8:22 AM, Magnus Manske <magnus.manske at web.de> wrote:
> Nice! While you're at it, would it make sense to include a field for the
> media type (not the file type) as well? Like, "image", "audio", "video",
> coded as integer values.

If there was (eventually) a way for users to change this on upload
and/or from the description page, this could also solve (or assuage)
the irritating ambiguity of ".ogg" (Ogg being able to contain audio
*or* video, though ".ogg" normally represents Ogg Vorbis because that
"got there first").

Having that info to hand in an instant would also be great for having
proper "display" support for media other than images, too.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Violet/Riga

subject: [WikiEN-l] I dunno, you try and help...

body:
...and [[User:JDG]] comes along and reverts you!  As mentioned
previously I've been looking at making the talk page templates more
consistent, implementing a suggestion last night.  JDG comes along and
revert wars [[Template:Featured]] without any discussion or attempts
at a compromise.  Thanks, that really makes me feel like my efforts
are worthwhile. :/

</vent>

~~~~ Violet/Riga


from_name: Neil Harris

subject: [Foundation-l] comments

body:
Florence,

Please accept my sincere condolences and best wishes for the future.

Kind regards,

Neil Harris


subject: [Foundation-l] comments


from_name: Byortek wiki

subject: [Wikitech-l] unable to access my wiki outside my private network

body:
Hi

Please help ...

I can use & edit my wiki from my private network (192.168.0.x) but I
can't access it from outside (Public Internet).

However my apache server is accessible from outside. Even a php script
will work. I only have the problem with mediawiki.

Thank you


from_name: bj

subject: [Wikitech-l] download archive link does not work

body:
The archive link (http://download.wikimedia.org/archives/en/) does not work
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download. Is it a
temporary problem? I'd like to access the previous (March, 2005) MySQL dump
files. Any help /info would be very appreciated.
thanks,
bj


from_name: Tony Sidaway

subject: [WikiEN-l] Neo-nazi propaganda

body:
Please be on the lookout for neo-nazi propaganda, particularly to a site
called "judicial-inc DOT biz".  The edit by [[User:65.12.194.210]] to
[[Winston Churchill]] is pretty innocent-looking, but a good way down the
page in the link you find the phrase "ZOG Court Historian William
Manchester".  A bit of a giveaway.
I've tried to start a dialog with this user explaining why I've reverted
all his edits.


from_name: mp01 at maphi.net

body:
> I can use & edit my wiki from my private network (192.168.0.x) but I
> can't access it from outside (Public Internet).
>
> However my apache server is accessible from outside. Even a php script
> will work. I only have the problem with mediawiki.

How does the configuration of the wiki's directory in Apache's http.conf
file look like?

For example, the snipped below from
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newcomers_guide_to_installing_on_Windows
blocks access to everyone not in the local intranet:

 <Directory "C:/_Data/Apache web pages/mywiki">
     Options FollowSymLinks Indexes
     AllowOverride None
     Order deny,allow
     allow from 127.0.0.1
     allow from 192.168
     deny from all
 </Directory>

Regards, MaPhi


from_name: Edward Peschko

subject: [Foundation-l] copyright question about data

body:
hey all,

sorry if this is a FAQ - and I'm not sure if this question belongs in this
mailing list - but since it concerns the legal side of the fence wrt
wikipedia contributions here goes:

What's the legal status of data retrieved from non-public domain sources?

I understand that text that is retrieved from copyrighted materials is
copyrighted, but how about data and figures that deal with common interest
topics? Can you really copyright the amount of wheat grown in a year in
bangladesh, or the number of accidents in a year on california roads?

And how about graphs? Is data that is extrapolated from graphs and
used in derivative graphs considered a 'creative work' of its own?

I'd think so, but I just want to be sure..

Ed


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
Milos Rancic wrote:

>And if you want to
>transliterate from Latin to Cyrillic, you'll have a lot of English
>words transliterated in Cyrillic. Also, what about referencing in
>Cyrillic? If you add some Russian bibliography, you'll have Russian
>text transliterated into Latin.
>
Good bibliographic practice would have it that references remain in
their original language and script.  Any transliterated title would only
be an addition to what is already there, and is mostly for the purpose
of being able to put mixed script references in the same alphabetical
order.  Listing references in their own language warns the potential
user that about the language that he must read if he wants to go there.
If you're creating links a Roman link to a Cyrillic text won't work.

Serbs have a history of being able to go back and forth between scripts,
but that habit is not shared in many other cultures.  I haven't been
following the proposals to change scripts for Belorussian, but I
anticipate that it would take at least a full generation before people
start to be comfortable with the change.

Ec


from_name: Bishonen

subject: [WikiEN-l] I dunno, you try and help...

body:
Violet/Riga wrote on 2005/04/11 14:32:

> ...and [[User:JDG]] comes along and reverts you!  As mentioned
> previously I've been looking at making the talk page templates more
> consistent, implementing a suggestion last night.  JDG comes along and
> revert wars [[Template:Featured]] without any discussion or attempts
> at a compromise.  Thanks, that really makes me feel like my efforts
> are worthwhile. :/
>
> </vent>
>
> ~~~~ Violet/Riga

:-( Whatever did s/he want to go and do that for?? I was just admiring your
templates yesterday, and thinking they look great! They're also a big,
improvement in tidiness and professionalism over the present I-think-I'll-
just-put-the-{{FA}}-on-top-of-{{oldpeerreview}}-or-maybe-not ad hoc system.
I do some housekeeping on peer review, and I *never* know where to stick
the templates--what's already there on a talk page can  throw it off in all
sorts of ways. Your system would be a big help, so don't let JDG get away
with it.
Bishonen


from_name: Pablo Saratxaga

body:
Kaixo!

On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 09:02:24AM -0400, zhengzhu wrote:
> With Monk's help, I have implemented a preliminary system for
> conversion between cyrillics and lation for BE. There is a test site
> at
>
> http://s87257573.onlinehome.us/be/

very nice indeed, a lot of languages should benefit of such feature.

However, languages that have latin script in their list show that
there are various exceptions to implement:

- html entities (starting with '&' and ending with ';') must not be
  converted.
- interwiki links should be handled as exceptions too (as the list
  of valid interwiki domains is known (eg, the possible xx in [[xx:foo]])
  it should be easy to implement
- it would be nice also to detect urls and not convert them

then, it would be need to have a way to force conversion even for
things otherwise being exceptions (that is, the opposite of -{ }- );
and the very nice thing would be a way to suggest the appropriate
conversion for a given string (for example, foreign people names could
be written differently in cyrillic and latin,
maybe something like "blablabla ={Latn:Saratxaga|Cyrl:????????}= blabla",
that would be displayed as "blablabla Saratxaga blaba"
or "???????????? ???????? ?????????" but not as
"????????? ????????? ?????????"
maybe the Latn:/Cyrl: could be removed, as the script can be found
from the strings, syntax will then be easier for the editors:
"blablabla ={Saratxaga|????????}= blabla" or, if they write in cyrillic:
"???????????? ={????????|Saratxaga}= ?????????"

Maybe we can start to create the transliteration rules for some
languages and put them somewhere (on meta?)

--
Ki ?a vos v?ye b?n,
Pablo Saratxaga

http://chanae.walon.org/pablo/		PGP Key available, key ID: 0xD9B85466
[you can write me in Walloon, Spanish, French, English, Catalan or Esperanto]
[min povas skribi en valona, esperanta, angla aux latinidaj lingvoj]
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050411/dd53f860/attachment.pgp>


body:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:42:31AM +0200, Jean-Baptiste Soufron wrote:
> As far as I understand it, these figures would be derivative works from
> public domain works... and their author would get copyright !
>

But that's what I don't understand. Look at the back of any decent
research book. Take for example, 'the prize'. It acknowledges over 500
sources - copyrighted and non - and includes many graphs from what I assume
is data that came from them.

If the strict interpretation of copyright here is true, then nobody could
get anything done. There has to be a clause allowing for derivative works
that contain elements of original works, but have value added to them. But I'm
having a very tough time putting my finger on the line between what is allowable
and what is not..

Ed


from_name: Andy Sisson

subject: [Wikitech-l] A comprehensive list of en.wikipedia.org article topics

body:
Hi -

It occurred to me that the 500k+ english language article topics would
by themselves be a fairly broad index of the vocabulary and zeitgeist
of the english speaking world - which would, in turn, potentially be
quite handy as word list for constructing US-style crosswords and the
like.

While I can presumably generate such a list from the backup sql dumps,
that's obviously the hamfisted, bandwidth-sucking way to do it.
Particularly since I'd actually prefer a simple, big tar'd and gz'd
text file.

Suggestions? Does this already exist somewhere I didn't find?

Thanks -
Andy

----
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
 - Somerset Maugham


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] A comprehensive list of en.wikipedia.org article
	topics

body:
Andy Sisson wrote:
> It occurred to me that the 500k+ english language article topics would
> by themselves be a fairly broad index of the vocabulary and zeitgeist
> of the english speaking world - which would, in turn, potentially be
> quite handy as word list for constructing US-style crosswords and the
> like.
>
> While I can presumably generate such a list from the backup sql dumps,
> that's obviously the hamfisted, bandwidth-sucking way to do it.
> Particularly since I'd actually prefer a simple, big tar'd and gz'd
> text file.

Lucky for you, we've got just such a file available:
http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/all_titles_in_ns0.gz

A link probably should be added to the dumps download page.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


subject: [WikiEN-l] I dunno, you try and help...

body:
On Apr 11, 2005 2:21 PM, Bishonen <bishlist at ungoodthinkful.com> wrote:
> Violet/Riga wrote on 2005/04/11 14:32:
>
> > ...and [[User:JDG]] comes along and reverts you!  As mentioned
> > previously I've been looking at making the talk page templates more
> > consistent, implementing a suggestion last night.  JDG comes along and
> > revert wars [[Template:Featured]] without any discussion or attempts
> > at a compromise.  Thanks, that really makes me feel like my efforts
> > are worthwhile. :/
> >
> > </vent>
> >
> > ~~~~ Violet/Riga
>
> :-( Whatever did s/he want to go and do that for?? I was just admiring your
> templates yesterday, and thinking they look great! They're also a big,
> improvement in tidiness and professionalism over the present I-think-I'll-
> just-put-the-{{FA}}-on-top-of-{{oldpeerreview}}-or-maybe-not ad hoc system.
> I do some housekeeping on peer review, and I *never* know where to stick
> the templates--what's already there on a talk page can  throw it off in all
> sorts of ways. Your system would be a big help, so don't let JDG get away
> with it.
> Bishonen

Cheers for that.  I hate edit wars (so pointless) but some people just
won't try and communicate or collaborate (is this not a wiki?).  He's
pushed me to the limit of 3RR now - I just hope he is able to start
discussing it.  Shame though as the other ones are implemented already
and this one now looks out of place.

~~~~ Violet/Riga


from_name: joe burgess

subject: [Wikitech-l] adding pages

body:
I am newbie at mediawiki and was wondering how exactly I add pages to my
mediawiki site.


body:
Andre Engels wrote:

>On Apr 11, 2005 11:42 PM, Edward Peschko <esp5 at pge.com> wrote:
>
>
>>What's the legal status of data retrieved from non-public domain sources?
>>
>>I understand that text that is retrieved from copyrighted materials is
>>copyrighted, but how about data and figures that deal with common interest
>>topics? Can you really copyright the amount of wheat grown in a year in
>>bangladesh, or the number of accidents in a year on california roads?
>>
>>
>No, you cannot copyright the data itself. What is copyrighted is the
>*representation* of the data, while the *selection* of the data MIGHT
>be copyrighted.
>
This is a very important distinction.  The selection issue can be
difficult, and is most applicable when you are using the same subset of
data as someone else.  If you and the other person are providing
complete data that is not a breech since there is only one way to have
everything. :-)  Also an obvious form of representation of the material
(such as alphabetical order) is not copyrightable.

>>And how about graphs? Is data that is extrapolated from graphs and
>>used in derivative graphs considered a 'creative work' of its own?
>>
>>
>Yes, I would not see what 'creative work' in making the graph would be
>included in such data. The copyright on the graph is not on the data
>represented, but in the representation (e.g. the width-to-height
>ratio, the colours used, etcetera).
>
An easy way to avoid copyright infringement in this case is to use a
different form of graph, such as replacing a bar graph with a pie chart.

>Note: I am not even close to being a lawyer
>
People say this all the time.  I prefer to treat lawyers in the same way
as experts in other fields.

Ec


body:
>Lucky for you, we've got just such a file available:
>http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/all_titles_in_ns0.gz
>
>A link probably should be added to the dumps download page.
>
>-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Beautiful. That's the stuff - and the link - I was hoping for. Thanks.

Was that a one-off deal or will the file at that url always be
re-created during backups? (presuming, I suppose, that's when it was
generated)

Andy

----
The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
- Somerset Maugham


body:
Andy Sisson wrote:

>It occurred to me that the 500k+ english language article topics would
>by themselves be a fairly broad index of the vocabulary and zeitgeist
>of the english speaking world - which would, in turn, potentially be
>quite handy as word list for constructing US-style crosswords and the
>like.
>
It probably still not produce the wealth of obscure 2 and 3 letter words
that you need just to make the crossword work. :-)

Ec


body:
Andy Sisson wrote:
>>Lucky for you, we've got just such a file available:
>>http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/all_titles_in_ns0.gz
>
> Beautiful. That's the stuff - and the link - I was hoping for. Thanks.
>
> Was that a one-off deal or will the file at that url always be
> re-created during backups? (presuming, I suppose, that's when it was
> generated)

It's a normal part of the backup set for each of our wikis.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050411/3999b6bf/attachment.pgp>


body:
bj wrote:
> The archive link (http://download.wikimedia.org/archives/en/) does not work
> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download. Is it a
> temporary problem?

The download server has been rearranged a bit. You'll find the English
Wikipedia files now at:

http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/

> I'd like to access the previous (March, 2005) MySQL dump
> files. Any help /info would be very appreciated.
> thanks,

I don't think they're online at the moment. Is there a particular reason
you want last month's dump instead of last week's? If they're still
around we might be able to link it in temporarily.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050411/ea7c926e/attachment.pgp>


from_name: Viajero

subject: [WikiEN-l] Neo-nazi propaganda

body:
Tony Sidaway wrote:

> Please be on the lookout for neo-nazi propaganda, particularly to a site
> called "judicial-inc DOT biz".  The edit by [[User:65.12.194.210]] to
> [[Winston Churchill]] is pretty innocent-looking, but a good way down the
> page in the link you find the phrase "ZOG Court Historian William
> Manchester".  A bit of a giveaway.

Thank you for also catching the link this user added to [[Leo Frank]]. I
saw the edit this morning, but didn't think to follow it through because
the title given looked innocuous. Shortly thereafter you removed it, and
only then did I look at the site and saw what it was about.

V.


from_name: zhengzhu

body:
> very nice indeed, a lot of languages should benefit of such feature.
>
> However, languages that have latin script in their list show that
> there are various exceptions to implement:
>
> - html entities (starting with '&' and ending with ';') must not be
>   converted.

noted.

> - interwiki links should be handled as exceptions too (as the list
>   of valid interwiki domains is known (eg, the possible xx in [[xx:foo]])
>   it should be easy to implement
> - it would be nice also to detect urls and not convert them

The conversion happens at a rather late stage of the wiki parser at
which the input should be largely (x)html. I have attempted to avoid
converting them but may have missed something. Can you provide an
example at the test site when this is not done correctly?

> then, it would be need to have a way to force conversion even for
> things otherwise being exceptions (that is, the opposite of -{ }- );
> and the very nice thing would be a way to suggest the appropriate
> conversion for a given string (for example, foreign people names could
> be written differently in cyrillic and latin,
> maybe something like "blablabla ={Latn:Saratxaga|Cyrl:????????}= blabla",
> that would be displayed as "blablabla Saratxaga blaba"
> or "???????????? ???????? ?????????" but not as
> "????????? ????????? ?????????"
> maybe the Latn:/Cyrl: could be removed, as the script can be found
> from the strings, syntax will then be easier for the editors:
> "blablabla ={Saratxaga|????????}= blabla" or, if they write in cyrillic:
> "???????????? ={????????|Saratxaga}= ?????????"
>

This function is built in and is running at ZH. At the BE test site,
you can use the following syntax (note how close it is to your
suggestion:)

-{be-cyrillics: Foo; be-latin: Bar}-

This will show "Foo" in cyrillics mode, and "Bar" in latin mode.

--
zhengzhu


subject: [WikiEN-l] I dunno, you try and help...

references:
<bd37b041050411053236aa0e72@mail.gmail.com>
	<0FeYyP218CF50000.bishlist@ungoodthinkful.com>
	<bd37b041050411091051e7413c@mail.gmail.com>

body:
Wow, and he's now come out with the fantastic quote of "I will launch
a fullscale effort to revoke your Adminship" just because _he is right
and I am wrong_.

:/

~~~~ Violet/Riga


from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 10:42 AM, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> A new mailing list was opened this week. Its name is Juriwiki-l at mail.wikimedia.org. Its moderator is Soufron.
> Who can post to the list ?
> Anyone may post to this list (at least, until we begin to have spamming issues)

I don't know why but posts are seemingly being automatically
discarded, so no one but those subscribed to juriwiki can post to the
list. If anyone has tried to send anything there, please note that it
did not get through and has been permanently lost. You may want to try
emailing board at wikimedia.org instead so a member of board can forward
your mail to the list until this is fixed.

Angela.


subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l


body:
On Apr 11, 2005 7:51 PM, Karthik Gopalakrishnan <mailkars at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When I create a new article or start a new talk, On the edit page it
> shows  the following text and then shows the text area to add our
> text. I want to modify this  default content. How do I do and which
> file should I modify.

You can edit this at [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] if you are logged in
as an admin.

See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Newarticletext

Angela.


from_name: Daniel Wunsch

subject: [Wikitech-l] Image metadata in database

body:
On Monday 11 April 2005 09:22, Magnus Manske wrote:

> Nice! While you're at it, would it make sense to include a field for the
> media type (not the file type) as well? Like, "image", "audio", "video",
> coded as integer values.

mimetypes?

daniel


from_name: Ryan

subject: [Wikitech-l] Distributed Authentication

body:
That would be an idea, something for the developers to consider.

--
Ryan

On 4/11/05 8:32 PM, "Rahul Sinha" <quidire at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Drupal has a distributed authentication system
> (http://drupal.org/node/312) that allows any holder of an account from
> a participating site to log into another participating site using his
> original login (preventing namespace collision via user at sitename for
> the other sites).
>
> Given the vast number of Wikipedia account holders, might not this
> system be useful to MediaWiki sites?  Adding in some PKI to prevent
> "remote.spammers.biz" from entering the network (requiring
> participating sites to "register" with a "auth.mediawiki.org") and
> ideally making this protocol in concert with, and thus compatible with
> Drupal (why not after all; the creation of a standard cross-server
> authentication mechanism would be nice, no?), the smaller sites could
> benefit from the speed bump to vandals that registration implies
> without actually deterring potential contributors.
>
> Any thoughts?
> -RS
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>


from_name: Besiki Stvilia

body:
It would be greatly appreciated.  I'm running some experiments for my
research - modeling the temporal dynamics of a set of articles.  I
don't have enough disk space to download the whole old_table at this
moment. If you could post temporarily the previous 2-3 dumps of the
English datatabase that would help me a lot.
Thanks!
bj.

On Apr 11, 2005 8:21 PM, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> bj wrote:
> > The archive link (http://download.wikimedia.org/archives/en/) does not work
> > from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download. Is it a
> > temporary problem?
>
> The download server has been rearranged a bit. You'll find the English
> Wikipedia files now at:
>
> http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/
>
> > I'd like to access the previous (March, 2005) MySQL dump
> > files. Any help /info would be very appreciated.
> > thanks,
>
> I don't think they're online at the moment. Is there a particular reason
> you want last month's dump instead of last week's? If they're still
> around we might be able to link it in temporarily.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>


body:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 05:38:42PM -0700, Ray Saintonge wrote:
> Andre Engels wrote:
>
> >On Apr 11, 2005 11:42 PM, Edward Peschko <esp5 at pge.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>What's the legal status of data retrieved from non-public domain sources?
> >>
> >>I understand that text that is retrieved from copyrighted materials is
> >>copyrighted, but how about data and figures that deal with common interest
> >>topics? Can you really copyright the amount of wheat grown in a year in
> >>bangladesh, or the number of accidents in a year on california roads?
> >>
> >>
> >No, you cannot copyright the data itself. What is copyrighted is the
> >*representation* of the data, while the *selection* of the data MIGHT
> >be copyrighted.
> >
> This is a very important distinction.  The selection issue can be
> difficult, and is most applicable when you are using the same subset of
> data as someone else.  If you and the other person are providing
> complete data that is not a breech since there is only one way to have
> everything. :-)  Also an obvious form of representation of the material
> (such as alphabetical order) is not copyrightable.

How about augmented data? Ie: say someone has a set of data that you'd like
to keep in its entirety, but you add some features that text cannot possibly
have (like, say links to supporting papers for important datapoints,
or zoom-in on graphs). Is that considered copyright infringement?

Ed


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

subject: [WikiEN-l] I dunno, you try and help...

body:
Maybe you should get a wider opinion from the community before fully
implementing this. This way everyone gets to have input on how the new
templates should look. And it's a lot harder to argue with a wide
consensus. Anyway, don't let him get to you. I think it's a good idea.
:)

--Mgm

On Apr 11, 2005 6:10 PM, Violet/Riga <violetriga at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 2005 2:21 PM, Bishonen <bishlist at ungoodthinkful.com> wrote:
> > Violet/Riga wrote on 2005/04/11 14:32:
> >
> > > ...and [[User:JDG]] comes along and reverts you!  As mentioned
> > > previously I've been looking at making the talk page templates more
> > > consistent, implementing a suggestion last night.  JDG comes along and
> > > revert wars [[Template:Featured]] without any discussion or attempts
> > > at a compromise.  Thanks, that really makes me feel like my efforts
> > > are worthwhile. :/
> > >
> > > </vent>
> > >
> > > ~~~~ Violet/Riga
> >
> > :-( Whatever did s/he want to go and do that for?? I was just admiring your
> > templates yesterday, and thinking they look great! They're also a big,
> > improvement in tidiness and professionalism over the present I-think-I'll-
> > just-put-the-{{FA}}-on-top-of-{{oldpeerreview}}-or-maybe-not ad hoc system.
> > I do some housekeeping on peer review, and I *never* know where to stick
> > the templates--what's already there on a talk page can  throw it off in all
> > sorts of ways. Your system would be a big help, so don't let JDG get away
> > with it.
> > Bishonen
>
> Cheers for that.  I hate edit wars (so pointless) but some people just
> won't try and communicate or collaborate (is this not a wiki?).  He's
> pushed me to the limit of 3RR now - I just hope he is able to start
> discussing it.  Shame though as the other ones are implemented already
> and this one now looks out of place.
>
> ~~~~ Violet/Riga
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Byortek wiki

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: unable to access my wiki outside my private network

body:
<mp01 at maphi.net> wrote in message news:20050411123806.975DD730084 at ipschleuder.ipschleuder.de...
>> I can use & edit my wiki from my private network (192.168.0.x) but I
>> can't access it from outside (Public Internet).
>>
>> However my apache server is accessible from outside. Even a php script
>> will work. I only have the problem with mediawiki.

>How does the configuration of the wiki's directory in Apache's http.conf
>file look like?

My apache runs on my Linux server and the conf file seems OK because I can
access a php file that I put in the wiki directory.

Only the wiki's file are not accessible from the public Internet ...

any idea...

Thanks


subject: [Wikitech-l] Distributed Authentication

body:
Sj wrote:
> This is more or less the right list; though it would also be
> appropriate to mediawiki-l , the list for all mediawiki developers.

mediawiki-l is more the support list for people running MediaWiki.
wikitech-l is the development list.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 253 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20050411/f9886ed1/attachment.pgp>


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Show "You have new messages on your user-talk OR USER
 page", i.e. for changes any of these pages

body:
I know of many users having asked for implementing this, but how do
_you_ like this ?
Shall we notify changes on both pages ?

I have 1.4.1 code ready for allowing old or new behaviour (settable in
DefaultSettings).
Would be nice to learn, how you think about this.
Tom


from_name: Lee Daniel Crocker

subject: [Wikitech-l] Distributed Authentication

body:
> Drupal has a distributed authentication system
> (http://drupal.org/node/312)...

If we did do something like this, we would probably use
a standard like LDAP or ACAP rather than a home-grown one.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee at piclab.com>  <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
<http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/


from_name: Jack Lutz

subject: [Foundation-l] Expanding CheckUser permissions

body:
I think the log of CheckUser usage must be public; there is no otherwise no
check on abuse.


body:
I have a part of the answer.

mediawiki was redirecting the call to the public url to the
private url.

The hostname of the linux server is the private url "smallpc.home"
The public url is something like "smallpc.dyndns.org"

When the browser calls smallpc.dyndns.org/wiki, somehow mediawiki
tells the browser (through apache) to redirect (status 301) the call
to the private url smallpc.home/wiki

If I change the hostname of the linux server to the public url
and install it again, then it works fine, either from a private
or either from a public ip adress.