from_name: Guettarda

subject: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips

body:
And what does this mean in English?

On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
> Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
> Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
> To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
>
>
> Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
> accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
> server-side.  This may affect personal scripts that implement custom
> accesskeys; they'll have to be revised a bit to find the elements
> themselves rather than relying on their presence in the "ta" array,
> but it shouldn't be difficult.  Sites that have modified Monobook.js
> should not have their global changes affected by this directly,
> although they may have to rework them when the id's are changed.
>
> The tooltip for any given element that has a tooltip will be stored in
> a message "tooltip-x", where x is the element's HTML id, and can be
> modified as usual by sysops.  The accesskey, likewise, will be stored
> in a message "accesskey-x".
>
> For developers: currently this is in a branch, branches/simetrical/.
> Help converting over the language files would be greatly appreciated
> (via commits or, for non-devs, patches), but I'll do it myself if
> necessary.  I'll make this concurrent with reworking the id's/classes,
> just for simplicity.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: foundation-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Birgitte SB

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 5 November, 2006

body:
--- Gatto Nero <gattonero at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2006/11/6, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:
>
> > > Cute, quite the same members who made the
> decision of the hosting city.
> >
> > No, it isn't. Please stop making accusations.
>
> Sj, you (Angela), Fuzheado, Brassratgirl... as far
> as i remember (we
> had no official jury list).
> 4 of 9 members of the committee.
> 45% of the Program Committee.
> It's no accusation: it's math (and facts).
>
> No other comments.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Actually Anthere provided a list of jury members some
time ago.

http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2006-October/010772.html

I don't see how the program committee has anything to
do with the location chosen.  This is one of the
things that I imagine would be quite similar at any
location.  I don't see a problem here.

Birgitte SB

____________________________________________________________________________________
Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates
(http://voice.yahoo.com)


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Foundation-l] Project proposal: Lookup directory wiki

body:
On 05/11/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 05/11/06, Virgil Ierubino <virgil.ierubino at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I have suggested a new project at:
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lookup_directory_wiki . Please have a look.
> > In short, the wiki has information on any person or organisation on the
> > planet. The page explains this concept in more detail.

> "Wikistalk" for short?

Just the post I was about to make ...

- d.


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Mike O

subject: [Wikitech-l] need help installing images

body:
What I'm finding is that some images do show up and other don't. In some cases where images do not show up there IS a thumbnail available, but the larger images ISN'T available. For example, this thumb exists:

images/thumb/0/09/State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg

But there is no corresponding image elsewhere in the image dir tree, and if I understand correctly there should be one at

images/0/09/State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg

but there isn't. Why is this?

So looking at includes/Image.php I see that it checks to see if it can render an image ( canRender() ) based on a variety of parameters. Seems to me that the function returns false because a primary image isn't available. Shouldn't there be a way to see if the thumb exists and if so then show that image? Or would that break other things? Or do I not completely understand what's happening with image rendering?

Mike O

> I managed to get the image archive downloaded. FYI on my previous
> request for help with the download: The problem with not being able
> to download the entire image archive was due to the kernel, which
> needed to be rebuilt.
>
> That said, I can't seem to get the images to appear on the Wiki
> now. I've untar'd the file in the wiki software directory, so now
> just to be clear I have an images/ directory and an en/ directory,
> the latter being the image archive files. I also have a symlink
> inside images/ that points to en/ just in case I should have
> untar'd the image archive inside the images/ directory (eg:
> images/en/)
>
> Regardless, the images do now show up on the wiki. Articles still
> appear with a link to upload the image instead of showing the image
> itself, which is present on the system. I've loaded the image.sql
> and imagelink.sql to the database and that didn't seem to help.
> Images still do not appear in articles.
>
> This is in MediaWiki 1.8.1, with Sept 06 db dump and Nov 05 image archive.
>
> Any idea how to fix this problem?

--
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Powered by Outblaze


list: wikien-l

from_name: Delirium

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bad And Wrong Policy/Procedure/Guideline Hitlist

body:
Phil Sandifer wrote:

>On Nov 5, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Delirium wrote:
>
>
>
>>I don't agree with that at all---I think we should be precisely a
>>compendium of subject encyclopedias, albeit woven together in a way
>>that
>>the general reader can navigate from general to specific articles and
>>back again in a reasonable manner.
>>
>>
>
>I think there are some major problems with that, not the least of
>which being that this mindset is why many of our popular culture
>articles are written in an in-universe perspective.
>
>
Well I was thinking in terms of subject matter treated, not necessarily
wording.  What I had in mind with the "woven together" is to make things
more accessible and fit in better with the rest of the encyclopedia.

Look at our math articles, for example---surely lots of them have no
business being in a general-purpose encyclopedia.  Some do, but as you
drill down to more and more specific things, the language gets more and
more technical and the content approaches that of a specialist
mathematics encyclopedia.

-Mark


body:
Another problem I found is that in some cases a thumb directory exists for an image, but no thumbs exist in that directory, and no primary image exists either. This works to generate rendering errors in pages as seen below:

Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/var/www/wiki/images/f/f0/Soviet_Electric_grid_82.jpg': No such file or directory. convert: missing an image filename `/var/www/wiki/images/thumb/f/f0/Soviet_Electric_grid_82.jpg/300px-Soviet_Electric_grid_82.jpg'.
Map of the electric grid during the Soviet era.

Is there a fix for this? Obvious having an update to image database would be  effecient, but in lieu of that, a fix?

--
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from_name: Dan Collins

body:
Guett: do you make javascripts for WP? if not, it doesn't affect you

On 11/5/06, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And what does this mean in English?
>
> On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
> > Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
> > Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
> > To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
> >
> >
> > Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
> > accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
> > server-side.  This may affect personal scripts that implement custom
> > accesskeys; they'll have to be revised a bit to find the elements
> > themselves rather than relying on their presence in the "ta" array,
> > but it shouldn't be difficult.  Sites that have modified Monobook.js
> > should not have their global changes affected by this directly,
> > although they may have to rework them when the id's are changed.
> >
> > The tooltip for any given element that has a tooltip will be stored in
> > a message "tooltip-x", where x is the element's HTML id, and can be
> > modified as usual by sysops.  The accesskey, likewise, will be stored
> > in a message "accesskey-x".
> >
> > For developers: currently this is in a branch, branches/simetrical/.
> > Help converting over the language files would be greatly appreciated
> > (via commits or, for non-devs, patches), but I'll do it myself if
> > necessary.  I'll make this concurrent with reworking the id's/classes,
> > just for simplicity.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
ST47
Editor, en.wikipedia
GOLD Officer and resident geek


from_name: jf_wikipedia at mac.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bad And Wrong Policy/Procedure/Guideline

references:
<20061104192800.KAIQ644.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
	<71cd4dd90611050707w30ddaf8fp5fb2e4169e872af4@mail.gmail.com>
	<43ssk29o4s949ddrusi24nhaqmcg3q05ls@4ax.com>
	<454E85B9.7040103@telus.net>

body:
On Nov 5, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> But is it really a consensus view when only a small number of
> Wikipedians are actively involved, and the rest of us ignore the page
> completely?

That has been the problem all along. From the humble beginnings as a
"Vanity" guideline, this new merged/evolved version does not have the
support of the wider community as yet, and that is why is being
discussed here: to attract the attention of other editors that can
comment and bring it to the attention of others, so that it may gain
such consensus.

I do not think that you will find a committed Wikipedian that will
not want a COI guideline, but what goes into that guideline, in
particular in non black-and-white situations, requires wider
participation.

-- Jossi


from_name: Phil Sandifer

body:
On Nov 5, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Bryan Derksen wrote:

> Phil Sandifer wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 2006, at 4:46 PM, geni wrote:
>>
>>> Britannica is only one opinion. An encyclopedia of childrens toys
>>> would probably come to a different conclusion.
>>
>> Yes, but we're a general encyclopedia, not a subject encyclopedia,
>> and not a compendium of subject encyclopedias. This is a very
>> important point - especially for popular culture articles.
>
> I disagree, I see no reason why Wikipedia can't be considered a
> compendium of subject encyclopedias. Wikiprojects already treat it
> that
> way in a lot of regards.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Highways springs to
> mind, I would normally expect to find this sort of thing only in a
> specialist collection.

I think this is a big misconception, though an understandable one.
Wikipedia is a general encyclopedia of limitless depth. Due to that,
it covers material that would be too esoteric for a paper general
collection. But it's approach to all of its topics is that of a
general encyclopedia. So even when we have an article on, say,
Vermont State Highway 26, the approach is that of a general
encyclopedia, not a specialist one. This is a VITAL distinction in
terms of understanding what the content of an article should be.

WikiProjects, on the other hand, are social phenomena among editors
who want to work on particular areas - equivalent, say, to those
editors of an encyclopedia assigned to manage the physical sciences.

-Phil


subject: [WikiEN-l] Anyone want to summarise wikien-l weekly?

body:
if someone does this, i'd give them a cookie - or mabye a barnstar

On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS
>
> Improv started doing this for foundation-l and wikipedia-l. Think
> something analogous to "Kernel Traffic" for Linux. Anyone want to do
> wikien-l weekly?
>
>
> - d.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
ST47
Editor, en.wikipedia
GOLD Officer and resident geek


from_name: Rory Stolzenberg

body:
I could help, but I haven't been able to be on the internet often recently,
so it's possible that I would miss a couple threads if I did it alone.

On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS
>
> Improv started doing this for foundation-l and wikipedia-l. Think
> something analogous to "Kernel Traffic" for Linux. Anyone want to do
> wikien-l weekly?
>
>
> - d.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>

Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
server-side.  This may affect personal scripts that implement custom
accesskeys; they'll have to be revised a bit to find the elements
themselves rather than relying on their presence in the "ta" array,
but it shouldn't be difficult.  Sites that have modified Monobook.js
should not have their global changes affected by this directly,
although they may have to rework them when the id's are changed.

The tooltip for any given element that has a tooltip will be stored in
a message "tooltip-x", where x is the element's HTML id, and can be
modified as usual by sysops.  The accesskey, likewise, will be stored
in a message "accesskey-x".

For developers: currently this is in a branch, branches/simetrical/.
Help converting over the language files would be greatly appreciated
(via commits or, for non-devs, patches), but I'll do it myself if
necessary.  I'll make this concurrent with reworking the id's/classes,
just for simplicity.
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Sherool

subject: [Wikitech-l] ] Idea for new "magic word" for images

body:
On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 18:47:44 +0100, cohesion <cohesion at sleepyhead.org>
wrote:

> On 11/5/06, Sherool  wrote:
>> Basicaly some way to spesify an id and class value for an image *from
>> the
>> image description page*
>>
>> Not sure what kind of syntax would be best for this, "traditional" magic
>> words don't take parameters so something like __META id ="ifd"
>> class="ifd"__ might seem "ugly" or strange,  on the other hand a more
>> function-ish appraoch like {{#meta: id="ifd"|class="ifd"}} would not be
>> expected to have the effect I'm suggesting. Ideas on this would be most
>> welcome ("meta" is probably not the best name either).
>>
>> Anyway the general idea is this: By whatever means is deemed the best
>> syntax it should be possible to spesify an arbitrary id and class value
>> (except one that colide with existing "hard coded" values, maybe prefix
>> all user spesified values in some way to avoid problems) for an image
>> from
>> it's description page. The "thumbnailing code" would then apply this to
>> either the div or img tag of the image (depending on wether or not it's
>> framed). The admins on any given Wiki are then free to add JavaScript
>> functions and CSS classes to interact with the image in just about any
>> way
>> they can imagine.
>
> I assume the images have some unique id in the database anyway, so
> maybe it would be easier to just use that as the id, unless people
> didn't want to expose that for some reason.

I was not thinking about a unique id, rater something like <img id="ifd">,
although I just realised that this is not valid HTML since ID's are in
fact supposed to be unique. So the ID bit, we can easily write a
"getElementsByClass" function and just check for a given "class" value on
all images in the article instead.

> It seems a little difficult because when I load an article with a
> image pending deletion tagged with, say, a {{DELETE}} magic word,
> where is the trigger to change the class for that image coming from?
> The parser would need to look at all the image pages every time it
> loaded an article checking for these magic words I guess. That might
> not be super difficult I don't know.

I was thinking along these lines:
When the image description page is updated and it contains the "magic
word" the defined class name(s) are saved in a new database colum in the
image table (isn't that roughtly how #REDIRECT works?, it's a bit in the
database, the wikicode is not actualy parsed to see if a page is a
redirect or not every time). When you call an image from an article I
asume you have to look up the image table anyway to find the physical file
location, so retrieving this class value in addition should (hopefully) be
trivial. Then the "rendering" code would just check if the image have a
class asosiated and stick it on the resulting <img> tag. Then it is up to
the admins on the Wiki to actualy implement the CSS class and/or
JavaScript code needed for this to result in any special
formating/functionality to be applied to the image. At least that's how it
would work in my head, not sure how compatable that is with the way
MediaWiki actualy work :P

> It does seem like a useful feature though, since so many images get
> added back, you start to think people don't realize why they were
> removed in the first place. :)

--
[[:en:User:Sherool]]


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote

>I do not
> support your apparent view that Wikipedia's exponential growth is
> somehow justification for an exponential growth in the corpus of its
> policies and guidelines.

That is not my view. I have scarcely had anything to do with policy/guideline pages, since arriving in 2003. You might note that [[Wikipedia:Spam]], which logically is only a subsection in the 'conflict of interest' area, is by itself a page of perhaps comparable length. The logic is to get the right high-level pages set up, so that the basic principles are put forward in a few places, and detailed material hangs off those. (I have actually also argued for a handbook approach, since it seems to me utopian to think Wikipedia in its current state is not easily comprehensible. I could have wished for more support on that front.)

Charles

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from_name: Aphaia

subject:
[Foundation-l] Translation subcommittees' open meeting is today on
	November 5, 22UTC

body:
Hello,
The first Transcom open meeting is scheduled on today, November 5,
2006, 22 UTC at the IRC channel, #wikimedia-translation hosted by
freenode.

Thank you all who have shown interest already. We invite you, all who
are interested in translation on Wikimedia project.

You are invited to list your name and items;
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_subcommittees/Trans/meetings#Agenda

If you are plausibly offline then, you are still invited to submit
your comment on the page above.

Hoping to hear you soon,

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * ?????? ???? *


from_name: geni

body:
On 11/5/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> The one difference between these two topics is that Pok?mon is a fairly
> recent phenomenon, and it's easier to confine all that could be
> reasonably said about it.

Fan faction could potentialy make that problimatical.

> Porn has been around much longer to the point
> that some would even consider the Book of Ruth in the Bible to be
> pornographic.  This makes it a lot more difficult to determine what porn
> is notable.  None of us would exist without sex, and that could have the
> effect that naming someone's parents is inherently pornographic. :-)
> Even I would admit that simply saying that someone had sex is not
> normally notable, but having sex publicly or on film could alter that
> parameter.
>

There is an industry with awards and journalists writeing about it.
This means there is information that tends to be fairly availible that
we can cite. There are secondary sources. This gives us a starting
point to work from. Pokemon once you get outside the big obvious stuff
seems to be rather short of cites.

> I'm glad to see you mellowing with age.

Never.

> That's sad.  As flaky as the leaves may seem they owe their life to the
> roots.

But inevitable. There is a difference between editing an article that
will only be read by tens of people and editing an article that will
be read by tens of thousands.

--
geni


body:
On 11/5/06, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:
> But on the other hand, and this is something we ought not be ashamed
> of, we are an encyclopedia. Encyclopedias have standards. That's not
> to say we should "censor," but, well... encyclopedias value some
> topics over others. Nobody would argue that Jacques Derrida is more
> known than Pokemon, but Britannica has an article on him, and not one
> on Pokemon. The judgment of notability is more than a judgment of
> popularity. It's a judgment, ultimately, of worth. Obviously,
> Wikipedia is not paper. We can set the bar lower.
>

Britannica is only one opinion. An encyclopedia of childrens toys
would probably come to a different conclusion.

> But our notability standards, being stitched together on a case-by-
> case basis, are in no real position to engage in this sort of thought.

Most legal systems are based to a far degree on president. This works
better than you might expect.

--
geni


subject: [Wikitech-l] Bug in SpecialUpload.php

body:
SpecialUpload.php has a bug.

If upload_by_url rights are allowed then a person can upload images directly from another site by specifying the URL. However, private function curlCopy( $url, $dest ) is breaks URLs because it performs a strtolower operation, which as you might guess isn't proper since URLs at some sites are case sensitive.

So this:

                # Maybe remove some pasting blanks :-)
                $url = strtolower( trim( $url ) );

Should be changed to this:

                # Maybe remove some pasting blanks :-)
                $url = trim ($url);

Mike O

--
_______________________________________________
Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

Powered by Outblaze


body:
On 05/11/06, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, but we're a general encyclopedia, not a subject encyclopedia,
> and not a compendium of subject encyclopedias. This is a very
> important point - especially for popular culture articles.

Er, we arguably do encompass quite a lot about subject encyclopedias,
although you'd need to whack context on the front before
cut'n'pasting.

- d.


body:
Delirium wrote
> Date: 2006/11/05 Sun PM 09:49:44 GMT

> I suppose it depends on what you mean by COI---if you mean say merely a
> financial conflict of interest then that's tenable, but there are plenty
> of others that would seem to disqualify whole slews of editors,
> especially experts in the subject.  For example, artificial intelligence
> (my area) is a very contentious field, and people within it disagree
> strongly about what in the field is notable or worth pursuing, and even
> disagree about how to narrate its history.  I think it would be
> reasonable to say that anyone who is an active AI researcher has a
> conflict of interest when it comes to editing AI-related articles, and
> yet our articles wouldn't get very far if all AI researchers had to
> recuse themselves!

The first business at [[WP:COI]] is indeed to define 'conflict of interest', as it applies to edits of WP. Given the heckling about having such a guideline at all, it is worth pointing out that there is now a simple definition available. If, in making an edit, you are putting your own interests ahead of Wikipedia's, you are evidently experiencing such a conflict.

Later the guideline deals with the 'temptation' issue: if your outside interests are going to put you in temptations way, because you are seriously committed to something (anything) very likely to slant your edits, then it is deprecated that you go ahead and edit. Most academics are able to discuss views different from their own without their faces contorting with rage; but those who've been around the corridors and coffee times of academia know that it is not always the case that objectivity can be maintained. So there are cases where academics should stay away, and the ArbCom has had such a case where it ruled against the professor.

Charles

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from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

body:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:07:42 -0500, Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org>
wrote:

>It seems to me that the type of people with whom this is an increasing
>problem are not the type of people who are even going to read such a
>long and complictated guideline, let alone care about following it.

Sure.  But it's good to have a well-reasoned guideline to point them
to, and when they ignore it then we can justly point to a consensus
view which they are going against.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Platonides

subject: [Wikitech-l] Mailing list search changes

body:
> Timwi wrote:
>> Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
>> regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
>> Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
>> are we penalised for it?
>
> After a few dozen of those, yeah. I'm tired of fighting with people over
> stupid shit like that.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

It's the mail program's field 'User name' + using the same email for
everything what 'leaks' information on the from field. As the user haven't
typed on the message it's a bit hidden ;-)


body:
"cohesion" <cohesion at sleepyhead.org> escribi? en el
mensaje news:aa08c93c0611050947h40700292l4b6231e4ad5f4d4 at mail.gmail.com...
> On 11/5/06, Sherool  wrote:
>> Basicaly some way to spesify an id and class value for an image *from the
>> image description page*
>>
>> Not sure what kind of syntax would be best for this, "traditional" magic
>> words don't take parameters so something like __META id ="ifd"
>> class="ifd"__ might seem "ugly" or strange,  on the other hand a more
>> function-ish appraoch like {{#meta: id="ifd"|class="ifd"}} would not be
>> expected to have the effect I'm suggesting. Ideas on this would be most
>> welcome ("meta" is probably not the best name either).
>>
>> Anyway the general idea is this: By whatever means is deemed the best
>> syntax it should be possible to spesify an arbitrary id and class value
>> (except one that colide with existing "hard coded" values, maybe prefix
>> all user spesified values in some way to avoid problems) for an image
>> from
>> it's description page. The "thumbnailing code" would then apply this to
>> either the div or img tag of the image (depending on wether or not it's
>> framed). The admins on any given Wiki are then free to add JavaScript
>> functions and CSS classes to interact with the image in just about any
>> way
>> they can imagine.
>
> I assume the images have some unique id in the database anyway, so
> maybe it would be easier to just use that as the id, unless people
> didn't want to expose that for some reason.
I think the unique id is the proper image name :-)
>
> It seems a little difficult because when I load an article with a
> image pending deletion tagged with, say, a {{DELETE}} magic word,
> where is the trigger to change the class for that image coming from?
> The parser would need to look at all the image pages every time it
> loaded an article checking for these magic words I guess. That might
> not be super difficult I don't know.

It wouldn't be a problem. If it's stored as a new row on the db (as it
should),
the db is already queried when a image is stored on a page (does the image
exist? what's their filename? etc) so getting another field there won't make
trouble.
I think the problematic bits would be on the cache. Cached pages don't check
the db and they'd need to be purged (in fact some deleted iamges still show
for
a while on articles). Although we could rely on the job queue, i think it's
impractical
for rerendering all uses of a commons image (the same reason why checkusage
spends
so much time).

> It does seem like a useful feature though, since so many images get
> added back, you start to think people don't realize why they were
> removed in the first place. :)
I like the idea. Good for those guys which are making an article and don't
even see the
warnings on their commons talk page of the fair use violations.
Yes, it should be a class not an id. getElementsByClass may not need to be
necessary. CSS may
do everything needed.


body:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS

Improv started doing this for foundation-l and wikipedia-l. Think
something analogous to "Kernel Traffic" for Linux. Anyone want to do
wikien-l weekly?

- d.


from_name: Gatto Nero

body:
2006/11/6, mingwangx <mingwangx at gmail.com>:
> The program
>    committee members are:
> [CUT]

Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the hosting city.
No conflict of interest, of course.
All is good, no problem anywhere.


from_name: Brianna Laugher

body:
On 05/11/06, Virgil Ierubino <virgil.ierubino at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have suggested a new project at:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lookup_directory_wiki . Please have a look.
>
> In short, the wiki has information on any person or organisation on the
> planet. The page explains this concept in more detail.
...
> Tell me what you think!

"Wikistalk" for short?
1- how is it educational?
2- how do you verify someone is who they claim to be?
3- you have a section on 'vanity' but curiously not one on 'privacy'.
I am not really convinced that 'information should be free'
successfully translates into 'I have an innate right to know about
every private individual on the planet'.

regards,
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise


body:
2006/11/6, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:

> > Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the hosting city.
>
> No, it isn't. Please stop making accusations.

Sj, you (Angela), Fuzheado, Brassratgirl... as far as i remember (we
had no official jury list).
4 of 9 members of the committee.
45% of the Program Committee.
It's no accusation: it's math (and facts).

No other comments.


from_name: Anthere

body:
Gatto Nero wrote:
> 2006/11/6, mingwangx <mingwangx at gmail.com>:
>
>>The program
>>   committee members are:
>>[CUT]
>
>
> Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the hosting city.
> No conflict of interest, of course.
> All is good, no problem anywhere.

Actually, when you think about it, the overlap means we are quite
strong. Many of the people involved last year (and sometimes two years
ago) are still very eager to participate into making Wikimania something
real big. If none of those were involved, we would lose some of the best
practices developped during the past two events. So, I am happy to see
this overlap.

This said... we *need* south americans on this program committee.
Anyone willing to join ?

Maybe a pinch of japanese could be cool as well (would help to get
people to know one another).

And what about a drop of russian ? The russian wikipedia is now quite
big and we hardly know about them either. Is there a russian wikipedian
on this list ?

Anthere


from_name: Tian-Jian "Barabbas" Jiang@Gmail

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [Wiki-research-l] Wikimania 2007 Hacking Days
	call-for-help

body:
Dear Mr. Brion et al,

    Actually we would like to attract hackers to accomplish some real
stuffs in hacking days.
I has personally attended to YAPC::Taipei and felt really good to join
some developments directly.
Somehow we are worrying about the amount of developers of Wikimedia side
projects,
such as creating applications of the new Wikipedia API, that's why we
suggest to have a contest.
And yes, the cooking, oh, I meant hacking group should be not too large.
There are a lot of cafe in
Taipei with wireless (and bears) and keep opening to 4 AM, I think this
kind of places is good for
night(jet-lag?) hackings. :)

    Best Regards,
Mike

Brion Vibber wrote:
> My recommendation: don't invite too many people, don't have lots of
> talks. Talks would be more appropriate for a tech track during Wikimania
> proper.
>
> A few small workshop-type sessions to let people strategize, socialize,
> roadmap, experiment, and accept tasks to work on for the coming months
> would be a lot nicer, and would better justify having a distinct
> "hacking days" period before/after the main conference.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>


from_name: Noah Spurrier

subject: [Wikitech-l] Protected Wiki Comments

body:
I'm using MediaWiki as a CMS, so I don't allow public article editing,
but I do want to allow anonymous public comments.
Is it easy to have the discussion appear below the
main article instead of on a separate Discussion tab?
I'd like it to work somewhat in the style of PHP's online docs.

Yours,
Noah


from_name: mingwangx

body:
*Wikimania 2007 <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/> Team
Bulletin<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team_Bulletin>
*

5 November, 2006<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team_Bulletin/20061105>

In the weekly meeting of the Taipei Team on November 2nd, team members
reported their work and discussed the following matters:

   - The Taipei Team will announce a new email address next week to be
   used for communication with the team. If you have any questions or
   suggestions, please send an email to this new address.
   - The website division hopes to put information about the host city
   Taipei (including traffic information) on the official Wikimania 2007
   website before the end of November.
   - If you think that you may have some trouble in applying for visa to
   Taiwan (for example, those in Mainland China), please prepare related
   information and send it to the Wikimania 2007 service email when it is
   announced.
   - The program committee is set up. The committee will start to meet up
   on IRC in mid November. Please contact
TzuChiang<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:TzuChiang_Liou>if
you have any questions or suggestions about program. The program
   committee members are:
      - Sj <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sj>
      - Jakob<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:User:JakobVoss&action=edit>
      - Andrew<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Fuzheado&action=edit>
      - Phoebe<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Brassratgirl>
      - Erik<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Eloquence&action=edit>
      - Angela <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Angela>
      - James<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jdforrester&action=edit>
      - Mike Tian-Jian Jiang a.k.a.
b6s<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:B6s>
      - TzuChiang<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:TzuChiang_Liou>
   - The translation division has already established a page about
   translation on the official Wikimania 2007 website at
   Wikimania:Translation<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania:Translation>.
   They are discussing translation processes which may have version management
   or change management. Please go to
Wikimania_talk:Translation<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_talk:Translation>or
Htchien's
   talk page <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Htchien>to
give your opinion.
   - b6s <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:B6s> is in charge
   of hacking days <http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hacking_days>.
   A coding contest in hacking days is being considered. Please send your
   questions or suggestions about hacking days to the Wikimania-l mailing
   list <http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>.
   - A Wikimania Party is looking for the exclusive sponsor.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please leave them at...

   - http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Team_Bulletin/20061105
   - Wikimania-l mailing
list<http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>

Everyone is welcome to reproduce and distribute this bulletin to their
websites, mailing lists, BBS, blogs, and so on, but please kindly include the
Bulletin's original
location<http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team_Bulletin/20061105>on
the official Wikimania 2007 website in your distribution.


from_name: David Gerard

body:
On 06/11/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <macgyvermagic at gmail.com> wrote:

> And while I'm at it. Why are you doing this?
> It's only going to break stuff what's the advantage?

You might want to ask on wikitech-l.

- d.


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

body:
Hoi,
Would you really believe that these same people would not be interested
in being on the program committee if it were in Turin?

PS the way you manifest your displeasure for losing the 2007 Wikimania
makes you a poor loser. If anything you provide excellent arguments not
to have a Wikimania in Italy in a future. It is sad that you do not
understand this and, I hope other Italian Wikimedians will help you
appreciate this.

Thanks,
    GerardM

Gatto Nero wrote:
> 2006/11/6, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:
>
>
>>> Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the hosting city.
>>>
>> No, it isn't. Please stop making accusations.
>>
>
> Sj, you (Angela), Fuzheado, Brassratgirl... as far as i remember (we
> had no official jury list).
> 4 of 9 members of the committee.
> 45% of the Program Committee.
> It's no accusation: it's math (and facts).
>
> No other comments.


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

body:
Does this affect any often used scripts like Lupin's popups or others like
it?
You want to give them a chance to do some edits before you make this final.

Mgm

On 11/6/06, Dan Collins <en.wp.st47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guett: do you make javascripts for WP? if not, it doesn't affect you
>
> On 11/5/06, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And what does this mean in English?
> >
> > On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
> > > Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
> > > Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
> > > To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
> > >
> > >
> > > Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
> > > accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
> > > server-side.  This may affect personal scripts that implement custom
> > > accesskeys; they'll have to be revised a bit to find the elements
> > > themselves rather than relying on their presence in the "ta" array,
> > > but it shouldn't be difficult.  Sites that have modified Monobook.js
> > > should not have their global changes affected by this directly,
> > > although they may have to rework them when the id's are changed.
> > >
> > > The tooltip for any given element that has a tooltip will be stored in
> > > a message "tooltip-x", where x is the element's HTML id, and can be
> > > modified as usual by sysops.  The accesskey, likewise, will be stored
> > > in a message "accesskey-x".
> > >
> > > For developers: currently this is in a branch, branches/simetrical/.
> > > Help converting over the language files would be greatly appreciated
> > > (via commits or, for non-devs, patches), but I'll do it myself if
> > > necessary.  I'll make this concurrent with reworking the id's/classes,
> > > just for simplicity.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ST47
> Editor, en.wikipedia
> GOLD Officer and resident geek
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
And while I'm at it. Why are you doing this?
It's only going to break stuff what's the advantage?

Mgm

On 11/6/06, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <macgyvermagic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does this affect any often used scripts like Lupin's popups or others like
> it?
> You want to give them a chance to do some edits before you make this
> final.
>
> Mgm
>
>
>  On 11/6/06, Dan Collins <en.wp.st47 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Guett: do you make javascripts for WP? if not, it doesn't affect you
> >
> > On 11/5/06, Guettarda < guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > And what does this mean in English?
> > >
> > > On 11/5/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
> > > > Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
> > > > To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
> > > > accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
> > > > server-side.  This may affect personal scripts that implement custom
> > > > accesskeys; they'll have to be revised a bit to find the elements
> > > > themselves rather than relying on their presence in the "ta" array,
> > > > but it shouldn't be difficult.  Sites that have modified Monobook.js
> > > > should not have their global changes affected by this directly,
> > > > although they may have to rework them when the id's are changed.
> > > >
> > > > The tooltip for any given element that has a tooltip will be stored
> > in
> > > > a message "tooltip-x", where x is the element's HTML id, and can be
> > > > modified as usual by sysops.  The accesskey, likewise, will be
> > stored
> > > > in a message "accesskey-x".
> > > >
> > > > For developers: currently this is in a branch, branches/simetrical/.
> >
> > > > Help converting over the language files would be greatly appreciated
> > > > (via commits or, for non-devs, patches), but I'll do it myself if
> > > > necessary.  I'll make this concurrent with reworking the
> > id's/classes,
> > > > just for simplicity.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ST47
> > Editor, en.wikipedia
> > GOLD Officer and resident geek
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>


body:
2006/11/6, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>:

> PS the way you manifest your displeasure for losing the 2007 Wikimania
> makes you a poor loser.

I'll survive to this opinion.
I just don't like injustice and politics on wiki.
A power who self-perpetrate is really dangerous: a committee who
choose a team who choose a committee made of the same persons of the
first committee, is really dangerous.

I'm sure other italians *don't* think the same of me: do you see any
of them mails, here?
I'll express my disappoint for what's going on on wiki: it's my right.
When there'll be something well done about Wikimania, I'll be happy.
For now, I'll - I repeat - express my feelings.


body:
2006/11/6, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>:

> Actually Anthere provided a list of jury members some
> time ago.

"Jury was Angela, Tim, Anthere, Phoebe, Austin, Sj, Delphine and Andrew."

It's worst I've thought: of the jury members, 4 of 8 self-perpetrate
themselves...

> I don't see how the program committee has anything to
> do with the location chosen.  This is one of the
> things that I imagine would be quite similar at any
> location.  I don't see a problem here.

Self-perpetrating power, as I've said.
Of course, it's an *opinion*, but when you see strange things...


from_name: Travis Derouin

subject: [Wikitech-l] Database->select and joins

body:
Hey,

Is there a way to do explicit left / left outer joins using
db->select? Quotes appear to be added to the table name entries and
there doesn't seem to be any parameters for any join statements.

Travis


from_name: Simetrical

subject: [Wikitech-l] [WikiEN-l] Fwd: Changes to accesskeys and tooltips

body:
On 11/6/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Gerard wrote:
> > Forwarding here given en: users' fondness for js extensions.
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com>
> > Date: 31-Oct-2006 04:48
> > Subject: [Wikitech-l] Changes to accesskeys and tooltips
> > To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
> >
> >
> > Pretty soon, likely within the next week, I'll be moving all
> > accesskeys and tooltips out of Monobook.js and implement them
> > server-side.
>
> Why?????

Because putting them in JS is bad for accessibility.  Cell phones, for
instance, will often as not have no JS support, or have JS off for
default.  Other non-conventional browsers may or may not apply the JS
correctly.  You'll still be able to modify all the tooltips and
accesskeys via JavaScript, just using slightly different calls (i.e.,
getting the element by ID instead of modifying the ta array).

Now that you mention it, though, to ease the shock it seems like a
good idea to apply stuff from the ta array anyway, if it exists, so
that old JS modifications still work.  I'll be sure to implement that,
so you don't have to worry about *that* breaking your scripts,
although do consider that array deprecated.  This is more like a few
weeks off, though, and that from now; I was a bit optimistic with my
estimate.

I assume you missed my announcement about revamping all the id's.  :)
Don't worry, that *will* get properly announced to all the right
places (not just wikitech-l, also various other significant lists and
hopefully all the sites' JS/CSS pages), with the full list of changes
and at least a week in advance, but the lack of standardization in
those can cause odd bugs--i.e., conflicts with users' id's, classes,
and headings.  There's no point in letting these scripts accumulate
indefinitely based on flawed id's.


from_name: valdelli at bluemail.ch

body:
Please, don't reply to this thread! If you think to be in the right
way and there is nothing to hide, these answers have no sense.

You are replying to an unofficial email.

As President of Wikimedia CH I have supported Turin as seat of
Wikimania 2007 because in my mind there were some candidatures in
previous editions and a different system, but, after the resolution,
I am happy that Turin will not host this event because the committee,
who has organized this candidature, has found different sponsors who
need also an advantage in exchange for support.

To have an half victory in the choose as host of Wikimania 2007
would been a bad way to assure to the sponsors these advantages and
IMHO it would been a start of an organization "with a lot of risks".
It's would be better to have a wide agreement.

As I have said in the previous emails, I hope that the organization
of following Wikimanias will not ask to have sponsors in advance
because to say at sponsors that a town has not been chosen will avoid
in the future to ask other support from them.

I think that, for these reasons, all Italian Wikipedians agree with
me, except some isolated persons.

Ilario

----Messaggio originale----
Da: gerard.meijssen at gmail.com
Data: 06.11.06 9.02
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 5
November, 2006

Hoi,
Would you really believe that these same people would not be
interested
in being on the program committee if it were in Turin?

PS the way you manifest your displeasure for losing the 2007
Wikimania
makes you a poor loser. If anything you provide excellent arguments
not
to have a Wikimania in Italy in a future. It is sad that you do
not
understand this and, I hope other Italian Wikimedians will help
you
appreciate this.

Thanks,
    GerardM

Gatto Nero wrote:
> 2006/11/6, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:
>
>
>>> Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the
hosting city.
>>>
>> No, it isn't. Please stop making accusations.


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
valdelli at bluemail.ch wrote:

>As I have said in the previous emails, I hope that the organization
>of following Wikimanias will not ask to have sponsors in advance
>because to say at sponsors that a town has not been chosen will avoid
>in the future to ask other support from them.
>
I think this is really a matter of how organizers talk with their
potential sponsors.  Some level of commitment from sponsors should be
required to satisfy the selection committee that local organizers have
more available than wishful thinking.  It also needs to be made
absolutely clear to sponsors that their support is conditional on their
city being awarded Wikimania.  Sponsors need to understand that similar
efforta are being made in other cities.  Until Wikimania has been
awarded it would be unethical for a local organizing committee to accept
anything from the potential sponsor other than a letter of conditional
commitment.

Ec


body:
On 11/6/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah good. What's the proposed naming schema?

My current working plan is to a) prefix everything with "mw-", b) aim
for lengthy and obvious rather than short and obscure, and c) (not
that this matters) separate-words-like-this ratherThanLikeThis
orlikethis.  I'm documenting all the specific changes as I go along at
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/simetrical/RELEASE-NOTES?view=markup,
a little over halfway down the page, but of course this is all ad-hoc
at the moment and I expect to make revisions to a lot of the choices
before they're finalized.


from_name: Aphaia

subject:
[Foundation-l] [Translators-l] Translation subcommittees' open
	meeting is today on November 5, 22UTC

body:
Hello,
Thank you for showing interest. We had a nice meeting, I think. Over
10 people attended. Some latest activiies were examined and
improvement was suggested. Some new proposals appeared, some
committment were expressed. Those committments include
- create a new helpful document on meta (list of people, checklist etc)
- propose a system to maintain our work on mailinglist
- propose future plan of meeting to improve communication between
people who are engaging with translation and coordination

Meeting log is available online.
Communications subcommittees/Trans/meetings/2006-11

Any further question about the meeting will be expected to go to translators-l.
Cheers,

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

body:
Phil Sandifer wrote

> But it's approach to all of its topics is that of a
> general encyclopedia. So even when we have an article on, say,
> Vermont State Highway 26, the approach is that of a general
> encyclopedia, not a specialist one. This is a VITAL distinction in
> terms of understanding what the content of an article should be.

Maybe so, but not necessarily a tenable one. There are going to be articles on, say, string theory, where the content you need to approach the article at all will be behind some wikilinks. Same applied broadly across technical areas. Articles split out of general surveys, to cover something specialise in depth, should not be criticised for doing that and not something else. Not everyone likes the ten-second scroll to get to the meat.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
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list: wikipedia-l

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Dream a little

body:
David Gerard wrote:

>On 06/11/06, pekka.gronow at yle.fi <pekka.gronow at yle.fi> wrote:
>
>
>>The rest of the money would be needed to digitise the recordings and put
>>them online. I 'll be glad to provide guidance on this, once we get this
>>far...
>>
>>
>http://www.elpj.com/
>
>A few of those and a lot of time and hard disk space ...
>
The TEAC GF-350 may not be as professional, but it's a lot cheaper.

Ec


from_name: dmehkeri at swi.com

body:
> On 11/3/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What policies/procedures/guidelines on en:wp strike you as just awful?
> > Please list and elaborate.
> >
> > This could be in any of purpose, current wording, ineffectuality or
> > just being a completely bad idea. Or anything else that makes it just
> > awful.
>
>
> Parts of Wikipedia:Username

Many parts of Wikipedia:Username, which has become a playground for overzealous
vandalism patrollers. A good candidate for Gerardian Gehad.

Dan


body:
"Stephen Bain" wrote

> That seems common sense to me too. All we need to say about conflicts
> of interest is "try to recognise your own biases, be open to others
> who apprehend biases, and don't let your biases get in the way of
> editing neutrally".

Entrenched POV editing is something which is a recognised problem from the early days, and for which we have no complete solution.

The way it works now, roughly speaking, is that we can throw out POV editors who cannot/will not respect sourcing requirements, and who cannot/will not adhere to community norms of decent behaviour. If people can stick within those two things, then they probably are de facto of good standing here. Even if they use selective citation to make an article lie through its teeth, which is quite possible and the basis of all skilful propaganda.

Adding a 'conflict of interest' guideline is a further way of cutting down on heavy POV slants. Like the other things, it works on an 80-for-20 basis: it will not deter the real agenda-pushers who wish to subvert our coverage, but it will have an impact, on people who came and cluelessly thought that open editing meant complete freedom to act here.

Charles

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from_name: jf_wikipedia at mac.com

body:
On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:21 AM, David Gerard wrote:

> We need to change "anyone can edit" to "anyone can edit *"

:)

and have a <small>long exposition on here on why it is not so</small>

-- Jossi


body:
On 06/11/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Adding a 'conflict of interest' guideline is a further way of cutting down on heavy POV slants. Like the other things, it works on an 80-for-20 basis: it will not deter the real agenda-pushers who wish to subvert our coverage, but it will have an impact, on people who came and cluelessly thought that open editing meant complete freedom to act here.

We need to change "anyone can edit" to "anyone can edit *"

- d.


from_name: Angela

body:
On 11/6/06, Gatto Nero <gattonero at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2006/11/6, mingwangx <mingwangx at gmail.com>:
> > The program
> >    committee members are:
> > [CUT]
>
> Cute, quite the same members who made the decision of the hosting city.

No, it isn't. Please stop making accusations.

Angela


body:
On 06/11/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> Would you like a summary of all the spam we reject with that? :)

With SPAMAMAX, your reader will be searching an hour for his underwear
in the ocean of your spam.

<PhilSandifer> You didn't tell me Wiki-EN got the most fucked up penis
spam ever.

- d.


body:
On 06/11/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Maybe so, but not necessarily a tenable one. There are going to be articles on, say, string theory, where the content you need to approach the article at all will be behind some wikilinks. Same applied broadly across technical areas. Articles split out of general surveys, to cover something specialise in depth, should not be criticised for doing that and not something else. Not everyone likes the ten-second scroll to get to the meat.

Depends. This is an editorial style consideration. It should take
about half a sentence on the front to give context. e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXA has a somewhat clumsy "In computing,
in the X Window System, in the X.Org Server," on the front. Just a
quick "you are here," with the subtext "and you probably don't want to
be" for anyone who would find the article gibberish. The same should
be easily possible for mathematics, science and so forth.

- d.


from_name: Saqib Saeed Ch

subject: [Foundation-l] INTRODUCTION AND PROJECT

body:
DEAR SIR,
AT THE OPPERTUNITY I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR LETTING ME IN YOUR ORGANIZATION FOR MAILING PURPOSE.

PLEASE SEND ME THE LIST OF E-MAIL SUBSCRIBERS FOR SENDING ME IDEAS AND PROJECTS TO ALL THE KNOWN JEWISH COMMUNITY.

ALSO PLEAESE NOTE THAT I HAVE A PROJECT WICH CAN GENERATE HUGE FUNDS FOR THE SETELMNET OF JEWISH COMMUNITY IN ISRIL AS WELL AS IN THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AS YOU KNOW THAT TEXTILE INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD IN EARNING HUGE PROFITS AFTER SELLING THE GARMENTS WORLD WIDE. BARNS SALES AND GGETTING HUGE ORDERS WORLD VIDE WITH THE HELP OF JEW COMMUNITY.

AS ALL THE JEWISH OMMUNITY KNOW THAT EGYPT CAN THREAT ISARIL AT SOME STAGE. THE ECONNOMY OF EGYPT RELIES ON THE TEXTILE ORDERS WORLD WIDE. SPECIALLY IN JEANS SECTOR.  IF WE CAN GET THE ORDERS MENT OF EGYPT WITH OUR INFLUANCE AND CONTACTS WORLD WIDE WE ACN NOT ONLY EARN HUGE PROFITS FOR JEWISH COMMUNITY BUT ALSO WE WILL BE ABLE TO WEAKEN THE EGYPTION ECONOMY A LITTLE BIT. WE CAN BRING EGYPT TO ITS NEES BEFORE US FOR THE ORDERS IN TEXTILE INDUSTRY.

PLEASE HELP ME IN GETTING ORDERS AND I WILL SEND 60% OF THE PROFITS TO THIS ORGANIZATIONS FOR MATTERMENT OF JEWS. 40 % WILL BE KEPT HERE IN PAKSITAN FOR ADMINITRATIVE ISSUES AND EXPENSES

PLERASE LET ME KNOW IF OUR ORGANIZATION CAN HELP ME IN GENERATING FUNDS FOR OUR ORGANIZATION

REGARDS

CHAUDHARY
PAKISTAN


subject: [Foundation-l] INTRODUCTION AND PROJECT


subject: [Wikipedia-l] [Foundation-l] please remove my moderating bits

body:
On 25/10/06, Aphaia <aphaia at gmail.com> wrote:

> On the other hand, English Wikipedians seem not to feel guilty to
> block trusted people of Wikimedia project only in the reason they
> didn't prefer their usernames. That is a surprise for me and I would
> like to say there are fearing SUL would bring them their current
> policy to apply all the project.  As past Election Official, I stress
> the coming change should encourage "one user, one account" policy - or
> the next Election cannot be feasable. Even in this year, hand counting
> was a stressful nightmare. And the English Wikipedia policy would be
> an obstacle to ensure such a policy unless it will be changed.
> I expect English Wikipedians change their mind and become aware
> Wikipedia project consists in diversity, and also I expect such kind
> of ethnocentrism is only a phenomenon on English Wikipedia and not on
> other English projects.

You keep going on about this as if it was intended as calculated
offence rather than a measure to deal with a very real vandalbot
problem. I appreciate you don't like it, but the orignal problem also
needs solving. Please suggest a solution.

- d.


from_name: Timwi

references:
<eigdq9$ev9$1@sea.gmane.org>	<NABBJGECPILFNLFEAPIKMECGJDAA.nickpj@gmail.com>	<eigng9$boa$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<454CA65F.2080009@pobox.com>

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> Timwi wrote:
>
>>Nick Jenkins wrote:
>>
>>>If I recall correctly, at least one of the requests was from someone
>>>("user-A") who used their real name and their Wikipedia username
>>>together (just once) in an email to one of the mailing lists.
>>
>>Argh. You know what this means? Just because one user did something they
>>regretted, we are now all prevented from googling the archives. WTF?
>>Surely the scenario you described was their problem, not ours, so why
>>are we penalised for it?
>
> After a few dozen of those, yeah. I'm tired of fighting with people over
> stupid shit like that.

So don't. Ignore them. Instead, you're giving in to an unreasonable
request from them.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you'll /still/ receive
complaints that things people posted are visible publicly, even if it's
not googlable. Then hopefully you'll reinstate Google's indexing.

Timwi


from_name: stvrtg

body:
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Phil Sandifer wrote

Maybe so, but not necessarily a tenable one. There are going to be articles
> on, say, string theory, where the content you need to approach the article
> at all will be behind some wikilinks.

Its not a bad thing, but the way that articles are topically differentiated
falls in accord with some atomic principle which is usually very minimalist
and leaves little for sake of introduction. Thats why I generally have
focused on the first few paragraphs, as the proper place to define all the
generally meaty things about a topic. A good lede frames everything about an
article, and Ive been extremely impressed with the quality of writing in
general on WP.

Coincidentally, thats what shows up in the navpopup. If it wasnt for Lupin's
navpops some of the material Charles mentions wouldnt be readable at all for
a novice audience.  I for one would like to see those implemented standard.
People might be impressed with WP and get a better sense of what hyperlinks
are really about.

-SV


from_name: Andrew Gray

body:
On 06/11/06, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I disagree, I see no reason why Wikipedia can't be considered a
> > compendium of subject encyclopedias. Wikiprojects already treat it
> > that
> > way in a lot of regards.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Highways springs to
> > mind, I would normally expect to find this sort of thing only in a
> > specialist collection.
>
> I think this is a big misconception, though an understandable one.
> Wikipedia is a general encyclopedia of limitless depth. Due to that,
> it covers material that would be too esoteric for a paper general
> collection. But it's approach to all of its topics is that of a
> general encyclopedia. So even when we have an article on, say,
> Vermont State Highway 26, the approach is that of a general
> encyclopedia, not a specialist one. This is a VITAL distinction in
> terms of understanding what the content of an article should be.

Concur entirely.

Our articles should be written from the standpoint of a general
reader; in the unfortunate but rare event the topic is sufficiently
obscure that the general reader isn't going to be able to understand
it, we should have the decency to frame it in a way that still says
"we are a general enyclopedia", to make it clear what it's a subset of
and what knowledge you need for it to make sense.

So this will mean we restate "the obvious" a lot of times; we define
or avoid jargon; we talk about things in a wide context rather than
keeping within a purely biographical remit, or a purely legal remit,
or a purely historical remit, or so on; and, if in doubt, we assume
we're the first thing they've ever seen about the field and they need
a decent and comprehensible primer on it *now*.

We shouldn't be assuming a common subject-related context from our
users, which a specialist encyclopedia can afford to do; this is, when
you think about it, just a corrolary of another of our basic
principles, that we don't assume a cultural or national context on
behalf of our readers. We are an international encyclopedia, not a
compendium of an American one and a British one and an Irish one and
an Indian one (&c, &c) - and, likewise, we are a general encyclopedia,
not a compendium of a historical one and a biographical one and an
engineering one and a legal one and an art one and (&c, &c).

----

As an aside, I have an encyclopedia on the shelf which - whilst
general-purpose - is sufficiently thorough in dealing with Matters
Imperial to have entries somewhat resembling (from memory):
"'Powerful'. First-rate cruiser launched in 1895. Currently in the
Mediterranean Fleet."

I would be curious to know what the most obscure entry anyone else has
found in a general-purpose work is...

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


subject: [Wikitech-l] Bug in SpecialUpload.php

body:
Mike O wrote:
> SpecialUpload.php has a bug.
>
> If upload_by_url rights are allowed then a person can upload images
> directly from another site by specifying the URL.

Is this feature planned to be activated on Wikipedia? If so, who will be
assigned the upload_by_url right?


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Domains

body:
Konstantinos wrote:

Hi Konstantinos

> Since http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Domain_names and
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Squatted_Wikimedia_domains have been moved to
> internal wiki (wrong
imho), I post these he
re:
>
> * wikipedia.gr has been squatted and is for sale at sedoparking.com.
> * wikimedia.gr has been bought by myself and is a portal to wikimedia
> projects (when there is a project in greek language, it links to that one)
> * ???????????.gr (wikipedia in greek)  has been bought by myself and is a
> redirect to el.wikipedia.org
>
> I will do anything that is suggested by the Foundation with these domains.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Konstantinos Stampoulis
> [[User:Geraki]]
> [el.wikipedia (s&b), el.wikisource (s&b),  meta, commons]

Well, it has been moved to internal, because it may be quite damaging to
write publicly which domains we own, which ones we would like to
purchase one day in the future, as well as to publicly discuss how we
intend to retrieve lost domains.

This said, I agree with you that it is a problem for those of you who
are willing to help and secure domains.

We are right now setting up a task force to be in charge of all this. I
expect announcement in the next few days. You'll have the opportunity to
directly communicate with the people in charge.

Meanwhile, I copy your comments on internal.

Thanks a lot.

Anthere


subject: [Foundation-l] Domains


from_name: Konstantinos

subject: [Foundation-l] Domains

body:
Since http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Domain_names and
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Squatted_Wikimedia_domains have been moved to
internal wiki (wrong imho), I post these here:

* wikipedia.gr has been squatted and is for sale at sedoparking.com.
* wikimedia.gr has been bought by myself and is a portal to wikimedia
projects (when there is a project in greek language, it links to that one)
* ???????????.gr (wikipedia in greek)  has been bought by myself and is a
redirect to el.wikipedia.org

I will do anything that is suggested by the Foundation with these domains.

Cheers,

Konstantinos Stampoulis
[[User:Geraki]]
[el.wikipedia (s&b), el.wikisource (s&b),  meta, commons]


subject: [Foundation-l] Domains


from_name: David Gerard

body:
On 06/11/06, Rory Stolzenberg <rory096 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I could help, but I haven't been able to be on the internet often recently,
> so it's possible that I would miss a couple threads if I did it alone.

HTML archive: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ - note the
others' wiki summaries include links to the posts in question.

- d.


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Arbitration Committee Policy?

body:
????????? ??????? wrote:

>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_Committee
>
>Is this policy for all Wikipedias or only for English one?
>
>I think, where is an English project bias here, example in "Requests"
>section (not all local committes have so many members as English
>Arbitration).
>
I agree. I think that all that can validly be given here is a list of
the existing arbitration committees, and how to contact them.

While there may be a need for an arbitration committee for meta, the
en:wp committee should not be viewed as automatically having authority
on meta.

Ec


from_name: Damian Finol

subject: [Foundation-l] Domains

body:
Hello,

A small report on this too:

Wikipedia.org.ve has been registered by a squatter, is not for sale yet
but is not being used either (DNS is wrong)

Wikimedia.org.ve has been registered by me and is currently being used
to setup the Venezuelan Chapter, like I've said in previous posts if the
chapter doesn't go through, we'll happily cede/donate the domain to the
foundation.

The good thing about the Venezuelan NIC is that you have to be
physically in Venezuela to register a domain (It requires a deposit in a
Bank that's only in Venezuela).

If there are other .ve domains that we should secure, please let me know
  through email.

Regards,

Damian Finol.


subject: [Foundation-l] Domains


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Dream a little

body:
On 06/11/06, pekka.gronow at yle.fi <pekka.gronow at yle.fi> wrote:

> The rest of the money would be needed to digitise the recordings and put
> them online. I 'll be glad to provide guidance on this, once we get this
> far...

http://www.elpj.com/

A few of those and a lot of time and hard disk space ...

- d.


from_name: Stephen Bain

body:
On 11/6/06, Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the type of people with whom this is an increasing
> problem are not the type of people who are even going to read such a
> long and complictated guideline, let alone care about following it.
>
> If your relationship with an article's topic might cause someone else
> to question your ability to write neutrally about it, then don't be
> bold.  Explain your changes, document your additions, and back down
> when challenged.  If you believe there are legal issues involved which
> necessitate your edits, then contact OTRS.  And if you yourself
> question your ability to write neutrally about a topic, then don't
> edit the article at all.
>
> I dunno, that seems to me like a common sense guideline to potential
> conflicts of interest when it comes to writing Wikipedia articles.
> This doesn't seem like a place where spelling out detailed policies is
> useful, because the problem isn't one that deals with many
> longstanding editors.  It also doesn't seem to be a place where there
> is a strong consensus as to what exactly the policies should be.

That seems common sense to me too. All we need to say about conflicts
of interest is "try to recognise your own biases, be open to others
who apprehend biases, and don't let your biases get in the way of
editing neutrally".

I don't see a real need to say much more beyond what's already at the
heart of [[WP:NPOV]], except for some very general advice as is
contained in your second paragraph Anthony. I would be happy to
include that verbatim as the contents of [[WP:COI]].

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


from_name: Hsiang-Tai Chien

body:
I would like to make something clear here.

In the beginning the members you mentioned were not in the program
committee. They were been asked by the Taipei team to join the program
committee because we know they are trusted people in wikimedia projects and
the board. And the most important thing is, they know the core spirit of
wikimedia projects and know how to organize Wikimania. Taipei team is
willing to have their experiences from the past Wikimania events.

I think you are really making a wrong accusation and you own them an
apology.

H.T.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
> [mailto:foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gatto Nero
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 4:33 PM
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 5
> November, 2006
>
> 2006/11/6, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>:
>
> > Actually Anthere provided a list of jury members some time ago.
>
> "Jury was Angela, Tim, Anthere, Phoebe, Austin, Sj, Delphine
> and Andrew."
>
> It's worst I've thought: of the jury members, 4 of 8
> self-perpetrate themselves...
>
> > I don't see how the program committee has anything to do with the
> > location chosen.  This is one of the things that I imagine would be
> > quite similar at any location.  I don't see a problem here.
>
> Self-perpetrating power, as I've said.
> Of course, it's an *opinion*, but when you see strange things...
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>

___________________________________________________
 ??????? ? ????????????????
 http://messenger.yahoo.com.tw/


body:
On 06/11/06, dmehkeri at swi.com <dmehkeri at swi.com> wrote:

> Many parts of Wikipedia:Username, which has become a playground for overzealous
> vandalism patrollers. A good candidate for Gerardian Gehad.

I'm not touching it! Take the wisdom of [[WP:PRO]], particularly the
wisdom of [[WP:BITE]]. Apply, carefully and lovingly, with a few
people backing you up.

- d.


from_name: Luna

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Please take me off all mailing lists.

body:
You can unsubscribe yourself -- in the case of wikipedia-en-l, you can do so
by visiting http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l and
finding the prompt which reads "To unsubscribe from Wikipedia-l, get a
password reminder, or change your subscription options enter your
subscription email address:"

I believe at that point, the list will send you a confirmation email, but
I've never gone through that particular process, myself. Good luck.

-Luna

On 11/6/06, christoffel101 at aim.com <christoffel101 at aim.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Pieter Reyneke
> Teacher
> ECC (Hogwan)
> 1078-10 Chungok-dong,
> Donghae-si,
> Gangwon-do,
> South Korea, 240-810
> AIM: Christoffel101
> E-mail: Christoffel101 at aim.com
> Tel: +82-33-533-0421
> Cell: +28-10-3748-0421
> Skype address: pieterreyneke
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading
> spam and email virus protection.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Brad Patrick

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Dream a little

body:
I had not seen that such a thing existed before - I had only heard of
it being theoretical years ago.  HOW AWESOME!

On 11/6/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/11/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> > David Gerard wrote:
> > >On 06/11/06, pekka.gronow at yle.fi <pekka.gronow at yle.fi> wrote:
>
> > >>The rest of the money would be needed to digitise the recordings and put
> > >>them online. I 'll be glad to provide guidance on this, once we get this
> > >>far...
>
> > >http://www.elpj.com/
> > >A few of those and a lot of time and hard disk space ...
>
> > The TEAC GF-350 may not be as professional, but it's a lot cheaper.
>
>
> I have 440kg of vinyl records and no turntable. OH MY GOD I WANT A
> LASER TURNTABLE.
>
>
> - d.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
Brad Patrick
General Counsel & Interim Executive Director
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
bradp.wmf at gmail.com
727-231-0101


from_name: Steve

subject: [Wikipedia-l] anyone heard back from Jimbo Re: 100M?

body: Aye?


from_name: James Hare

body:
Which $100M? Calcanis's or the one that'd be used to liberate a lot of work
from copyright?

On 11/6/06, Steve <subsume at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Aye?
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: pekka.gronow at yle.fi

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Dream a little

body:
If I had 100 million, I would use part of it to purchase the historical
part (1898-1950) of the EMI Music Archives at Hayes, UK .  It contains
about a million 78 rpm shellac records made in various parts of the world
by various EMI labels (Gramophone, HMV, Zonophone, etc). Some of these
recordings contain copyrighted musical works, but a lot of it is in public
domain at least in the EU.  Most of them will never be published again,
because there is no commercial market for, say, Icelandic or  Burmese
records made in the 1920s, so EMI will just sit on them forever unless
someone raises enough money to buy the lot.

The rest of the money would be needed to digitise the recordings and put
them online. I 'll be glad to provide guidance on this, once we get this
far...

Pekka Gronow
Helsinki, Finland


body:
Liberatory 100M.

-S

On 11/6/06, James Hare <messedrocker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Which $100M? Calcanis's or the one that'd be used to liberate a lot of
> work
> from copyright?
>
> On 11/6/06, Steve <subsume at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Aye?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Sean Black

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
On 11/2/06, Chris Picone <ccool2ax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> so.. even if there's a splinter of proff of notability, then it goes
> to AFD, right?

Sure, in theory.  The actual criteria is an /assertion/ of notability, which
is a different thing, largely because having individual admins judge a
nebulous and vague concept like "notability" is bound to cause problems and
confusion. To my mind, most things are either obviously insignificant or
obviously important. The gray area is why we have AFD ... not that it works
terribly well, mind you.

~~Sean


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Foundation-l] Help needed to develop fundraising appeal ideas

body:
The FundCom is developing ideas for a fundraising appeal to present to the Board. Please help us
edit the text at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_committee/Fundraising_appeal to
improve it, or create different versions to develop alternative texts.

A good fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things we previously have done
(with an emphasis on what has been done since the last fundraiser) and presents some ideas on what
can be done in the future with additional funds. The point is to impress potential donors on our
track record and instill in them confidence that their support will be well spent and they can be
part of something revolutionary.

The final appeal will be created using ideas generated from this process. That document will then
be translated.

Thank you,

Daniel Mayer,
Secretary PT and Organizer,
Wikimedia Fundaising Committee

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sponsored Link

$200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity -
Click now for info http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Help needed to develop fundraising appeal ideas


from_name: Mike O

subject: [Wikitech-l] Multi-language help needed

body:
Hi, I've established an English wiki, imported from Wikipedia. It works fine. I then went to establish a Spanish wiki, again imported from Wikipedia. To do that I basically created a database, download the dump, imported it using mwdumper and all went well. I can view the Wiki pages, most everythign seems to be in place.

However, there is a problem, namespaces don't appear to be working right.

I have special detection code to determine if someone landed at the Spanish site based on the URL. If they did then vars are set accordingly. For example, $db_lang, $wgLanguageCode, $wgLocalInterwiki, and $wgDBprefix are each set to "es" along with others (images path, etc) to point to the right database and paths, etc.

What appears to be happening is that /languages/messages/MessagesEs.php is not being loaded, or not being used, because on the Spanish Wiki I see links to "Template:Whatever" instead of "Plantilla:Whatever" -- Plantilla being the Template namespace in Spanish.

Anyone know why this happens and/or how to correct it?

Mike O

--
_______________________________________________
Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

Powered by Outblaze


subject: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Lookup directory wiki

body:
"Wikinews" is educational because it demonstrates current events of that
period of time, as well as what people knew back then. History in the
making.

On 11/6/06, Virgil Ierubino <virgil.ierubino at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Wayyyyyyyyy outside Wikimedia's goals and functional
> >area.
>
> I don't think so. How is Wikinews "educational"? It's about information,
> is
> it not?
>
> > 'Wikistalk' for short.
>
> Thank you to whoever pointed out I'd missed a section on "Privacy"! Of
> course, the wiki does not intend to be a "Wikistalk" - merely a collection
> of information that would be publicly viewable anyway. See the brand new:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Lookup_directory_wiki#Privacy
>
> By your reasoning, the Yellow Pages should be called the Stalker Pages.
> Lookup directories are not about stalking. They're useful.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: George Herbert

subject: [WikiEN-l] Newspaper web article links to Wikipedia

body:
A San Francisco Chronicle web story (www.sfgate.com) links to a
Wikipedia article on the City of Fremont :

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/06/BAGEQM75B15.DTL

--
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com


from_name: christoffel101 at aim.com

body:
Pieter Reyneke
Teacher
ECC (Hogwan)
1078-10 Chungok-dong,
Donghae-si,
Gangwon-do,
South Korea, 240-810
AIM: Christoffel101
E-mail: Christoffel101 at aim.com
Tel: +82-33-533-0421
Cell: +28-10-3748-0421
Skype address: pieterreyneke
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.


from_name: Humus Sapiens

subject: [WikiEN-l] Claims that Wikipedia was used to distribute malware

body:
Here's the same piece of news today from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6120268.stm
Last Updated: Monday, 6 November 2006, 10:19 GMT
Virus creators target Wikipedia

Actually, WP was not a target. The hackers used WP only to lure
readers to their page to target their (reader's) PCs. Perhaps we
should point out that the Beeb needs to fix their headline: it is both
inaccurate and sensationalist.
HS

On 11/3/06, Keith Old <keithold at gmail.com> wrote:
> G'day folks,
>
> Vnunet reports that security company Sophos claims that De was used to
> distribute malware.
>
> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2167949/hackers-wikipedia-dupe-users
>
> Hackers are using online encyclopaedia Wikipedia
> <http://www.wikipedia.com/>to spread malware, according to a security
> firm.
>
> Sophos <http://www.sophos.com/> discovered that hackers had created an
> article on the German edition of Wikipedia containing false information
> about a new version of the Blaster worm, along with a link to a fix.
>
> However, the fix is actually a piece of malicious code designed to infect
> visitors' PCs.
>
> Wikipedia is built from user contributions, allowing anyone to create or
> edit the content of a page.
>
> The hackers sent spam messages to German computer users, which purported to
> come from Wikipedia, and directed recipients to the fraudulent information.
>
> As the emails linked to a legitimate website, they were able to bypass some
> anti-spam solutions.
>
> "The good news is that the authorities at Wikipedia quickly identified and
> edited the article on their site," said Graham Cluley, senior technology
> consultant for Sophos.
>
> "Unfortunately, a version of the page remained in the archive, allowing the
> hackers to send spam and continue to direct visitors to the malicious code."
>
>
> Wikipedia has now confirmed that it has permanently erased all versions of
> the page.
>
> "The very openness of websites like Wikipedia, which allow anyone to edit
> pages, makes them terrific, but can also make them less trustworthy, "
> Cluley added.
>
> "In this case, the article in question was not just misleading, it was
> downright malicious.
>
> "Everyone should exercise caution and ensure they have appropriate defences
> in place to protect their computer systems.
>
> "Additionally, people should remember that if there really is a new threat
> on the internet, you're likely to hear about it first from the security
> companies, not an online encyclopaedia."
> What do we have in place to minimise the impact of something similar in the
> future.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Keith Old
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
--- Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> How much does Wikimedia currently have in cash?
>
> How much does the Foundation need for the next 6 months?

I've been told that audited financial data and some indication of need (not necessarily an
official budget) will be available before the start of the drive.

-- mav

____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com


body:
Donors of $100 or more get their picture taken with Jimbo.

</facetious>

On 11/6/06, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The FundCom is developing ideas for a fundraising appeal to present to the
> Board. Please help us
> edit the text at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_committee/Fundraising_appeal to
> improve it, or create different versions to develop alternative texts.
>
> A good fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things we
> previously have done
> (with an emphasis on what has been done since the last fundraiser) and
> presents some ideas on what
> can be done in the future with additional funds. The point is to impress
> potential donors on our
> track record and instill in them confidence that their support will be
> well spent and they can be
> part of something revolutionary.
>
> The final appeal will be created using ideas generated from this process.
> That document will then
> be translated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Daniel Mayer,
> Secretary PT and Organizer,
> Wikimedia Fundaising Committee
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Sponsored Link
>
> $200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity -
> Click now for info http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Domains

references:
<20061106120924.478DC19BFA4@albert.pmtpa.wmnet>	<einb03$oo0$1@sea.gmane.org>	<454F8921.2000005@igluve.org>
	<eioghn$bcr$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Anthere wrote:
> Damian Finol wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> A small report on this too:
>>
>> Wikipedia.org.ve has been registered by a squatter, is not for sale yet
>> but is not being used either (DNS is wrong)
>>
>> Wikimedia.org.ve has been registered by me and is currently being used
>> to setup the Venezuelan Chapter, like I've said in previous posts if the
>> chapter doesn't go through, we'll happily cede/donate the domain to the
>> foundation.
>>
>> The good thing about the Venezuelan NIC is that you have to be
>> physically in Venezuela to register a domain (It requires a deposit in a
>> Bank that's only in Venezuela).
>>
>> If there are other .ve domains that we should secure, please let me know
>>   through email.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Damian Finol.
>
> added as well :-)
>
> Ey Damian. Nobody amongst you motivated to get involved in Wikimania
> program ?
>
> Ant
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Hey Ant,

I already volunteered to work on Wikimania 2008 :), I had a chat with
Theodoranian and told him I was more than available to participate and
do whatever it is they need me to do, I'm also in the wikimania-l mail
list :). I'll see if any of the other guys in Venezuela is interested,
but is not going to be easy to raise money to go there (not to mention
getting Visas). I'm already saving up money and now I have a grand total
of 105$! out of 2400$ in Air fare :).

Anyways, if there's anything else I can do, either for the Foundation or
    to Wikimania, I'm available (I defend Thesis on Nov 20, so after
that I'm pretty much done with university yay! :) ).

Regards,

Damian Finol
Maracaibo, Venezuela.


subject: [Foundation-l] Domains


from_name: valdelli at bluemail.ch

body:
It depends.

All sponsors need the maximum. If someone accepts your proposal I
think that it could be a bad sponsor.

No other to say.

Ilario

----Messaggio originale----
Da: saintonge at telus.net
Data: 06.11.06 19.56
A: <valdelli at bluemail.ch>, "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 5
November, 2006

valdelli at bluemail.ch wrote:

>As I have said in the previous emails, I hope that the
organization
>of following Wikimanias will not ask to have sponsors in advance
>because to say at sponsors that a town has not been chosen will
avoid
>in the future to ask other support from them.
>
I think this is really a matter of how organizers talk with their
potential sponsors.  Some level of commitment from sponsors should
be
required to satisfy the selection committee that local organizers
have
more available than wishful thinking.  It also needs to be made
absolutely clear to sponsors that their support is conditional on
their
city being awarded Wikimania.  Sponsors need to understand that
similar
efforta are being made in other cities.  Until Wikimania has been
awarded it would be unethical for a local organizing committee to
accept
anything from the potential sponsor other than a letter of
conditional
commitment.


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2007 Team Bulletin, 5 November, 2006


from_name: Anthony

body:
On 11/6/06, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> A good fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things we previously have done
> (with an emphasis on what has been done since the last fundraiser) and presents some ideas on what
> can be done in the future with additional funds. The point is to impress potential donors on our
> track record and instill in them confidence that their support will be well spent and they can be
> part of something revolutionary.
>

How much does Wikimedia currently have in cash?

How much does the Foundation need for the next 6 months?

Anthony


from_name: Rory Stolzenberg

body:
How much downtime have we had recently, and is that significant compared to
sites with similar popularities?

How many new servers do we need right now? How many over the next few
months?

On 11/6/06, Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
>
> On 11/6/06, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > A good fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things
> we previously have done
> > (with an emphasis on what has been done since the last fundraiser) and
> presents some ideas on what
> > can be done in the future with additional funds. The point is to impress
> potential donors on our
> > track record and instill in them confidence that their support will be
> well spent and they can be
> > part of something revolutionary.
> >
>
> How much does Wikimedia currently have in cash?
>
> How much does the Foundation need for the next 6 months?
>
> Anthony
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


body:
WMF has around $500k in its bank account last I heard, though they're going
to be spending AT LEAST that on servers. Keep in mind nothing I say is
official.

Downtime? I think the concern is more with slowness than downtime.

On 11/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <rory096 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> How much downtime have we had recently, and is that significant compared
> to
> sites with similar popularities?
>
> How many new servers do we need right now? How many over the next few
> months?
>
> On 11/6/06, Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/6/06, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > A good fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things
> > we previously have done
> > > (with an emphasis on what has been done since the last fundraiser) and
> > presents some ideas on what
> > > can be done in the future with additional funds. The point is to
> impress
> > potential donors on our
> > > track record and instill in them confidence that their support will be
> > well spent and they can be
> > > part of something revolutionary.
> > >
> >
> > How much does Wikimedia currently have in cash?
> >
> > How much does the Foundation need for the next 6 months?
> >
> > Anthony
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: daniwo59 at aol.com

body:
WMF has nowhere close to $500k in its bank account(s).

In a message dated 11/6/2006 10:58:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
messedrocker at gmail.com writes:

WMF has  around $500k in its bank account last I heard, though they're going
to be  spending AT LEAST that on servers. Keep in mind nothing I say  is
official.

Downtime? I think the concern is more with slowness  than downtime.

On 11/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg <rory096 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> How much downtime have we had recently, and is that  significant compared
> to
> sites with similar  popularities?
>
> How many new servers do we need right now? How  many over the next few
> months?
>
> On 11/6/06, Anthony  <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 11/6/06,  Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > A good  fundraising appeal succinctly presents some of the great things
> >  we previously have done
> > > (with an emphasis on what has been  done since the last fundraiser) and
> > presents some ideas on  what
> > > can be done in the future with additional funds. The  point is to
> impress
> > potential donors on our
> >  > track record and instill in them confidence that their support will  be
> > well spent and they can be
> > > part of something  revolutionary.
> > >
> >
> > How much does  Wikimedia currently have in cash?
> >
> > How much does the  Foundation need for the next 6 months?
> >
> >  Anthony
> > _______________________________________________
>  > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>  > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>  >
> _______________________________________________
>  foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>  http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l  mailing  list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l