from_name: Simetrical

body:
On 2/6/07, brion at pobox.com <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>    3 previously passing test(s) now FAILING! :(
>       * Blank ref followed by ref with content  [Introduced between 05-Feb-2007 08:15:29, 1.10alpha (r19781) and 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802)]
>       * Regression: non-blank ref "0" followed by ref with content  [Introduced between 05-Feb-2007 08:15:29, 1.10alpha (r19781) and 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802)]
>       * Regression sanity check: non-blank ref "1" followed by ref with content  [Introduced between 05-Feb-2007 08:15:29, 1.10alpha (r19781) and 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802)]

Should be fixed, r19803.


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Peter Danenberg

subject: [Wikitech-l] SCALE

body:
     Just out of curiosity, is anyone making  it  to  SCALE*
this weekend?

Best, Peter

-----------
  * http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/scale5x/exhibitions/wikimedia.php


list: wikimedia-l

from_name: Aphaia

subject:
[Foundation-l] Comparison of new user welcome efforts across
	projects

body:
Thank you for your research, Brianna Laugher!

On 2/5/07, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> *23 either don't welcome new users by template, or if they do, their
> template doesn't have an interwiki link to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Welcome and I was not able to
> find the local equivalent. (For non-Wikipedia projects, I checked to
> see if they had a template with the same name as their Wikipedia
> equivalent, assuming *it* had a valid interwiki link.) These projects
> are: EL.wikt, FI.wikt, DE.wikt, HU.wikt, VI.wikt, KU.wikt, BG.wikt,
> TH.wp, ES.ws, CEB.wp, GL.wikt, ID.wikt, SQ.wp, KO.wikt, BPY.wp,
> ET.wikt, FA.wikt, SU.wp, WA.wp, SH.wp, SCN.wp, KU.wp, LV.wp.
>
> If you speak one of these languages PLEASE ADD THE INTERWIKI LINK to
> the English one, or just reply and tell me the name of it! :)

For curiosity, why?
I am rather afraid it gives wrong information the policies and
guidelines of one are unquestionably applied to another. Besides core
ethics, they aren't.

Besides that, it could happen a project doesn't rely template to
welcome newbies but prefer c&p boilerplates, like Japanese Wikipedia.
Is there any wiki page to gather relevant information, Brianna?

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *


list: wikien-l

from_name: Parker Peters

subject: [WikiEN-l] I go away for a few days and all this happens?

body:
On 2/4/07, Michael Snow <wikipedia at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> David Gerard wrote:
>
> > On 03/02/07, Parker Peters <parkerpeters1002 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I "changed" email addresses because I was told that the database tables
> >> related to my account were beyond repair and had to be deleted. This
> >> was the
> >> whole cause of the "bob" incident, despite whatever sinister motives
> you
> >> want to try to read into a problem purely created by a data storage
> >> medium
> >> somewhere going bad.
> >
> > This is transparent rubbish. Google told you no such thing.
>
> Note the passive voice, Parker never claimed that Google told him that.
> It was probably "Bob" that told him. Of course, problems with the
> "database tables" might cause loss of old messages or possibly other
> quirky behavior, but if they've been deleted I see no reason why
> somebody couldn't start over with the same email address as before.
>
> --Michael Snow
>

No, it was Google who told me. And I chose to change the name, mostly
because I was tired of people on here making snide flame comments about what
the address was.

Parker


body:
I'm going to guess that has more to do with the fact that he's on
moderation. Given the tone of his messages, I have no doubt the moderators
probably just blocked them all.

But you can keep believing your crackpot conspiracy theory if you want.

Parker

On 2/4/07, Sean Barrett <sean at epoptic.com> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thomas Dalton stated for the record:
> >> Sum total of zero reports of it happening to anyone else and given the
> >> number of people on this mailing list who use gmail that is somewhat
> >> odd.
> >
> > And the amazing coincidence of the two accounts that got confused just
> > happening to be involved in a conversation with eachother at the
> > time...
>
> And the complete lack of "Bob" on this list after the humiliation of
> being outed.
>
> - --
> Sean Barrett     | I've had a perfectly wonderful evening.
> sean at epoptic.com | But this wasn't it. --Groucho Marx
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> =Q+Yf
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>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
stvrtg wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Tim Starling <tstarling at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>> WikiProject is a namespace on a few Wikipedias  (cs, eu, fr, it, lmo, es).
>> If the English Wikipedia wants it, we'll enable it there too. Personally I
>> could never see the point in having a proliferation of namespaces, but
>> it's not up to me, it's up to the community.
>
>
> Cool! How about just "Project" ( in imitation of "portal" ).
> Dunno about WP, Geni.

As Kirill Lokshin noted, Project is taken already. You can't have it.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Michael .

subject: [Wikitech-l] Using spaces in file urls

body:
Hi,

I just wanted to quickly say a big thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
I decided to implement an extension so I could have
<file>c:\path\to\file.doc</file>. It's simple and effective, and very user
friendly.

MediaWiki is awesome, and now I can see why. These projects have such a
capable and helpful developer base.

Thanks again!
Michael.

>From: Carlos <angus at quovadis.com.ar>
>Reply-To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Using spaces in file urls
>Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:44:17 +0100
>
>Michael . wrote:
>[...]
> >
> > I've gotten far enough with this using meta and mediawiki.org, and have
> > enabled file:// links and a bunch of other stuff to make this posisble,
>even
> > changing the browsers so file:// links are supported from the site. The
>only
> > problem I've got left is what to do when there's a space in the file or
> > directory name being linked to.
> >
> > For example, if a file is stored in p:\docs\some user documentation.doc,
>I
> > can't link to it in the wiki without setting $wgRawHtml and using the a
> > href=... tag directly inside html tags. Not a very secure option, and
>also
> > not very user-friendly. Substituting spaces for %20 doesn't work (IE
>renders
> > the %20 directly for file:// links, it seems), and using [blah] doesn't
> > work, becuase the first space gets regarded as the split between the url
>and
> > the title of the link to be displayed. And an a href tag just gets
>ignored,
> > despite my efforts to try and add it to the attribute whitelist.
> >
> > I've been messing around for options for a few days now, and I've broken
>and
> > unbroken everything a few times, by screwing with stuff like
>Sanitize.php,
> > Linker.php, Parser.php, and so on. But despite being a long-term PHP
> > developer, I can't figure this code out despite my best efforts.
> >
> > So I'd like to ask the community if they have any suggestions on how I
>can
> > achieve this? None of the code changes I made seemed to have any effect,
>so
> > I'm at a loss as to what to do next.
>
>Maybe you can create a simple markup extension, which transforms
>something like '<mylink href="file://p:\docs\a b c">Link</mylink>' into
>'Link' (or what the correct HTML
>should be).
>
>These extensions are very easy to build. The documentation is here:
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Extending_wiki_markup
>
>Good luck.
>--
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>Wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia futurology

body:
On 06/02/07, phoebe ayers <phoebe.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:

> Though, "Wiki" as a noun meaning Wikipedia? Ugh, ugh, ugh. Surely we can do
> better things than that to the language; people already have a hard time
> differentiated other wikis vs Wikipedia.  "Wiki'd" as a verb is not as bad,
> but 'whipped' (under any spelling) is better.

It's already common usage. Hopefully wikis will become more common in general.

(Common phonecall I get: people who wonder how they could do their own
"Wikipedia" in their company. I have to explain that "wiki" is
generic, the concept is not patented, there's lots of different
software, MediaWiki is really easy and lots of hosting companies offer
it in a cheap hosting package, talk to your IT guy, the *hard* bit is
getting people to want to use it.)

- d.


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] SCALE

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Peter Danenberg wrote:
>      Just out of curiosity, is anyone making  it  to  SCALE*
> this weekend?

Me, at least. :) If you feel like popping over that'd be cool. I could
use a booth assistant or two to hang out at our booth and talk up
Wiki*edia (hint: free conference pass! Anyone interested please contact
me... I'll need to register you.)

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)

>
> Best, Peter
>
> -----------
>   * http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/scale5x/exhibitions/wikimedia.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Angela wrote:
> I didn't send that message. Isn't there a way of preventing emails
> with forged headers like this reaching the list?

Not practically. Welcome to e-mail! 1970s security for a 2000s world.

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
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list: foundation-l

from_name: DF

subject: [Foundation-l] Use of logos within Wikimedia sites

body:
Wikimedia's logos are copyrighted and trademarked.
Notwithstanding this, the logos have been placed on a
large number of pages under circumstances where other
copyrighted works would never be used.  Often this is
done simply for identification (e.g. this page is
about Wikipedia, so it has the Wikipedia logo), and
other times it is done for what might be called
promotional reasons.  Most such uses undoubtedly occur
without any direct input from the Foundation.

For examples, see the links on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-logo-en.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-logo.png

In addition, any image that incorporates a Wikimedia
logo has generally been marked "Copyright by
Wikimedia", regardless of the image's immediate
author:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:CopyrightByWikimedia

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:CopyrightByWikimedia

Some of these have apparently been created by
Wikipedians specifically to promote Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Banners_and_buttons
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_promotion

Recently, one of these promotional
banners(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NotSuckBanner.jpg)
was deleted (and now temporarily undeleted, subject to
deletion review) essentially for violating Wikipedia's
rules on the use of copyrighted works.  (Or in other
words, because it was a copyrighted image not being
used in an article.)

Now many of us believe that there could reasonably be
an exception to Wikipedia's copyright rules when it
comes to images owned by Wikimedia itself, especially
if they serve a useful purpose like promoting
Wikipedia.  However, because of the unique role that
the logos play in the visual identity of Wikipedia, I
wanted to come here and get guidance from the
Foundation about what constitutes acceptable use.  I
would appreciate it if people would review the
materials on the pages linked above and give some
direction on when logos can be incorporated in other
images and what kinds of pages they might reasonably
be used on.  In particular, are promotional tools like
banners and the like acceptable?

-Robert Rohde
aka Dragons_flight on EN

____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Bryan Derksen

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Fair-use furry porn on Russian Wikipedia

body:
Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
> in their copyright laws use such images?

Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
opposition to their inclusion?


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 06/02/07, stvrtg <stvrtg at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Tim Starling <tstarling at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > As Kirill Lokshin noted, Project is taken already. You can't have it.
>
>
> Ah, but you must mean "the community cant have it"  ;)
>
> I had thought Kirill was making some kind of epistemological point about
> "functional equivalency" - ie. semantics not syntax - as you apparently
> refer.
>
> Since you raised the point ...  the question that comes to mind is...  why?

Most MediaWiki installations are used for non-Wikipedia purposes; you
need a good default name for the "project namespace", and "Project:"
is as good as any. Effectively, "Wikipedia:" is just the local
renaming for "Project:" in the same way that de.wikipedia (to pick a
random example) has a local renaming of "User:" as "Benutzer:"

Try looking at [[Project:Help desk]] - it treats it identically to
[[Wikipedia:Help desk]]. This sort of trick is very useful on
mediawiki installations where you don't know the language,
incidentally - "User:XXX" and "User talk:XXX" will always get you
where you want to go.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: christoph.huesler at css.ch

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Antwort: Re: MediaWiki automated test run failure
	2007-02-06

body:
> That's a lie. The first report of them was in the 2007-01-21 test:
>
> > This is MediaWiki version 1.10alpha (r19546).
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >    2 new FAILING test(s)  :(
> >       * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)
> >       * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)
>
> So, what happened?

They never passed the test, but were failing since someone added them.
So... no, it's correct, isn't it?

 -chris


from_name: Keitei

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia futurology

references:
<3034369e0702051727n110a8e8csb5c1f4c6804e8aab@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1ED4B4E.1575%michaeldavid86@comcast.net>
	<eq9dqp$bgu$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:19, Tim Starling wrote:

> Marc Riddell wrote:
>> on 2/5/07 8:27 PM, phoebe ayers at phoebe.wiki at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> "Wiki'd" as a verb is not as bad,
>>> but 'whipped' (under any spelling) is better.
>>
>> 'whipped' or, perhaps, 'whiked'?
>>
>> Marc
>
> I think we're a bit late to the party. If only this mailing list
> was the
> Acad?mie fran?aise of English.
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wiki (currently 34
> up, 34 down)
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wiki+it
>
> -- Tim Starling

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wik+it+up

That one's not so so bad.
--keitei


from_name: Stephen Bain

subject: [WikiEN-l] Contradiction between guidelines

body:
On 2/6/07, Luna <lunasantin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> One idea, though, you may be able to avoid the issue entirely, if you use
> the dictionary entry-style:

That was a good suggestion, but when I tried it out it still looked a
little cluttered, so I put the information in a table instead. Check
it out now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car#History_of_regulations

As to the general principles in play, I'm very much in favour of
avoiding situations in which it is necessary to have dates in headings
at all. That way the problem just magically disappears.

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


from_name: Robert Scott Horning

body:
DF wrote:

>Wikimedia's logos are copyrighted and trademarked.
>Notwithstanding this, the logos have been placed on a
>large number of pages under circumstances where other
>copyrighted works would never be used.
>
<*snip*>

>
>Now many of us believe that there could reasonably be
>an exception to Wikipedia's copyright rules when it
>comes to images owned by Wikimedia itself, especially
>if they serve a useful purpose like promoting
>Wikipedia.  However, because of the unique role that
>the logos play in the visual identity of Wikipedia, I
>wanted to come here and get guidance from the
>Foundation about what constitutes acceptable use.  I
>would appreciate it if people would review the
>materials on the pages linked above and give some
>direction on when logos can be incorporated in other
>images and what kinds of pages they might reasonably
>be used on.  In particular, are promotional tools like
>banners and the like acceptable?
>
>-Robert Rohde
>aka Dragons_flight on EN
>

While I understand the rationale for trademarking these images formally
(is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-logo.png formally
regsitered yet?) and asserting trademark status on other logos and
names, I would like to contrast this to the use of the Linux trademark,
both the name and the classical Linux penguin.

I will suggest, however, that the Linux trademark is not being used with
the eye to a potential future fundraising activity or two, and is not as
strongly defended as a result.  The main attitude that Linus Torvald
seems to have about its usage is that somebody ought to hold the
trademark in order to keep those who would abuse it (as did happen) from
using trademark law to extort people in the legal system.  It is being
held as a community trust.

There is the "official policy" that has been discussed on Meta at:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logo_and_trademark_policy

There is also the derivitive logo policy that is perhaps more closely
related to what you are talking about:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_logo_derivatives

Although on both of these pages it should be apparent that the policy is
still "in progress" and not something that has been formally decided.

I would like to add my voice that I think the current ambigous policies
are insufficent to offer clear direction on where to proceed, or to even
find somebody to contact if you think you have a practical application
that would use Wikimedia logos and trademarks but would like to seek
"permission" first.  I know that such a person could very easily be
flooded with a so many requests as to turn it into a full time job,
which is one reason why I think it may not be happening right now and
why it is deliberately ambigous.

I would hope that some sort of "happy medium" could be created that
would allow creative expression such as the "NotSuckBanner.jpg" from the
community that would also promote generally Wikimedia projects nor
detract from any future fundraising efforts.  But that if you wanted to
use a Wikimedia logo such as is being done by http://www.wikipress.de/
that its usage could be done for a reasonable fee and not necessarily be
exclusive.  I could also imagine several blatant abuses of Wikimedia
logos that would not be appropriate due to content (imagine an
Terropedia or other group that promotes bomb making and coordinates
terrorist activities) that would very likely be turned down flat.

--
Robert Scott Horning


list: commons-l

from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [Commons-l] One new and one old tool

body:
Florian Straub wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I just wanted to share two of tools with you:
>
> * Flinfo fetches a complete picture description from Flickr by a given
> picture ID like 151898652:
> http://wikipedia.ramselehof.de/flinfo.php
>
<snip>
>
> PS: I know that fetching the license from flickr as well would be perfect
> .... I'm working on it ....
>

There's some useful info on that in the Greasemonkey Flickr-verification
script:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Para/flickreview.user.js

May or may not be helpful in your situation.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
Oh, those Russians!

You know, Bogdan, before you point out the mote in the Russian
Wikipedia's eye, why not clear the log out of your own? Most articles
on the Romanian Wikipedia are sub-sub-sub-stubs, including many that
aren't even complete sentences. I cannot see why this is allowed
except for artificial inflation of article count. Instead of looking
for things wrong with the Wikipedia you despise the very most of all
besides Moldovan, why not admit your own internal problems and do some
good work fixing them.

Mark

On 06/02/07, Bogdan Giusca <liste at dapyx.com> wrote:
> Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 7:48:01 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> > Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
> > otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
> > kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
> > been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
> > measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
> > stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
> > what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
> > opposition to their inclusion?
>
> Wikipedia, unlike myspace, still requires reliable sources and from
> what I've seen, that policy is here to stay.
>
> We don't accept original research, unsourceable affirmations or sourcing
> from random blogs and forums.
>
> If you look in the Russian wikipedia article, it even includes an
> IRC log, which wouldn't last one minute on en.wiki! :-)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


from_name: Brianna Laugher

subject: [Commons-l] One new and one old tool

body:
On 06/02/07, Florian Straub <flominator at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I just wanted to share two of tools with you:
>
> * Flinfo fetches a complete picture description from Flickr by a given
> picture ID like 151898652:
> http://wikipedia.ramselehof.de/flinfo.php

Flinfo is good because it grabs the image description, which
ImportFreeImages doesn't do, but it also grabs an appalling list of
categories:

[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Stouen]]
[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Stouen]]
[[Category:Milestone]]
[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Stouen]]
[[Category:Milestone]]
[[Category:Hand]]
[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Stouen]]
[[Category:Milestone]]
[[Category:Hand]]
[[Category:Pointing]]
[[Category:Jersey]]
[[Category:Stouen]]
[[Category:Milestone]]
[[Category:Hand]]
[[Category:Pointing]]
[[Category:Granite]]

(from 375290340... not sure what happened there...)

Simetrical, it's anyone's guess how long it will take ImportFreeImages
to be enabled... http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8854

cheers
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise


subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
Imagine the crazy fun that could be had on April Fools' Day if we were
a bit more malicious.

Mark

On 06/02/07, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Angela wrote:
> > I didn't send that message. Isn't there a way of preventing emails
> > with forged headers like this reaching the list?
>
> Not practically. Welcome to e-mail! 1970s security for a 2000s world.
>
> - -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFFyMbowRnhpk1wk44RAs3+AKDUyM5NMzjr9MeL+6AzOFjkC+JNQwCfdFTv
> RqDZdJxWRZPM5O7+FyU3LhY=
> =tFG5
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


body:
On 06/02/07, Aphaia <aphaia at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you speak one of these languages PLEASE ADD THE INTERWIKI LINK to
> > the English one, or just reply and tell me the name of it! :)
>
> For curiosity, why?
> I am rather afraid it gives wrong information the policies and
> guidelines of one are unquestionably applied to another. Besides core
> ethics, they aren't.

Because interwiki links are one of the most reliable ways to make
cross-project comparisons?
I don't think interwiki link implies they have the same content, only
that they perform the same function (think of articles: you can have
an interwiki link from a stub to a featured article, right?).

> Besides that, it could happen a project doesn't rely template to
> welcome newbies but prefer c&p boilerplates, like Japanese Wikipedia.
> Is there any wiki page to gather relevant information, Brianna?

OK, that is information that I can't figure out manually. :) Is there
a page with a list of the c&p boilerplates? I will add the info to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cross-project_comparisons/MediaWiki:Welcomecreation_and_Template:Welcome_comparisons

(what about Template:???? ??)

cheers,
Brianna


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
Tim Starling wrote:

>Mark Clements wrote:
>
>
>>"Bogdan Giusca" <liste at dapyx.com> wrote in
>>message news:1996630170.20070206155017 at dapyx.com...
>>
>>
>>>http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%99%D0%B8%D1%84%D1%84
>>>
>>>Any ru.wiki admin here willing to delete those images?
>>>
>>>BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
>>>in their copyright laws use such images?
>>>
>>>
>>As far as I am aware (IANAL), because the servers are in Florida, US law
>>applies to all WPs regardless of language.
>>
>>
>Who cares where the servers are? Wikipedia should be distributable
>throughout the world, including reuse and publication.
>
>Fair use is allowed everywhere, there's just some contention on what
>qualifies as "fair". There's also some variation in terminology: the Berne
>Convention calls it fair practice, and it's known as fair dealing in
>English common law. The tests for fair use in the US are somewhat more
>inclusive than elsewhere. It remains to be seen whether a result like
>Perfect 10 v. Google will be reproduced in courts throughout the world.
>
World wide redistributability still needs to be tempered with
practicality and common sense.  The extra long terms in Mexico and
Colombia should not leave the rest of paralyzed to the point of
inactivity.  The situation would be even worse if some small
impoverished country were to accept payment from a large corporate
purveyor of proprietary material to institute a regime of perpetual
copyrights.  The location of the servers is important in determining
jurisdiction in the event of any potential difference of opinion over
whether we collectively can include the material.  How the downstream
user emplys the material is beyond our control, and it is iimpossible to
imagine all the possibilities, among which are those that would succeed
in converting free material into non-free material.  That is entirely
possible unles we were to actively pursue anyone and everyone who claims
copyright on material thawt was already GFDL.

Some amount of fair use is inevitable, and just how much needs to be
flexible enough to accomodate a myriad possibilities.  It would be a
dangerous practice for those of us who do not participate in a project
in a particular language to start making assumptions about the
applicability of the law of the country where that language dominates.
Thus far some language projects are comfortable with fair use; others
aren't.  In this case it is up to the participants of WP:RU collectively
to determine their comfort level.  The normal good-faith assumption is
that contributors do so in compliance with the law, and failing that
that their breaches of the law are not wilfull.  Naturally, if WMF
receives formal complaints it will need to scrutinize the situation more
closely, and act accordingly, but that does not seem to be the case.

After reading about the Perfect 10 case I think that it is easy to
distinguish it from the present complaint.  While Google was going out
and adding thumbnails of anything its spiders could discover, our
article includes a few illustrations which in the editors' exercise of
judgement fairly illustrated the article.  Allowance is already made for
that kind of thing in English.  It should be up to our Russian editors
to determine if they want a similar policy, and not for outsiders to
impose their interpretation of Russian law.

The other factor here is whether Bogdan's complaint is really about a
copyvio, or is it about pornography.  In the past we have tended to be
more tolerant of pornography than copyright infringement.  I become
concerned when an allegation of copyright infringement is used
tactically to achieve a removal of supposed pornography.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] Category:Jews -> Category:Jewsih people

body:
Cool Cat wrote:
> I do not believe Jews are singled out. Every other ethnicity has people
> after them. Jews are the only ethnicity without it.
>

It's all part of of the grand Zionist conspiracy, of course.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
>>> I do not believe Jews are singled out. Every other ethnicity has
>>> people
>>> after them. Jews are the only ethnicity without it.
>>>   - Cool Cat
>>>
>> It's not an ethnicity; it's a religion.
>>
>> Ec
>
> Old joke:
>
> Q: What is a Jew?
>
> A: A person who asks, "what is a Jew?"
>

YYUR
YYUB
ICUR
YY4ME

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: The Cunctator

body:
On 2/6/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> > BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
> > in their copyright laws use such images?
>
> Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
> otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
> kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
> been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
> measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
> stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
> what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
> opposition to their inclusion?

Hmmmm. I could supply some guesses.


subject: [Wikitech-l] Statistics script on Swedish Wiktionary

body:
StefanB wrote:
> On Swedish Wiktionarys common.js,
> http://sv.wiktionary.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js , is a script that
> takes the visitors IP-addresses and transforms it into a non-revertable
> number, and then sends it to an external private server that belongs to
> one if the administrators on Wiktionary. The script is used for
> statistics on visited articles.
>

I wasn't aware that the client IP address was visible in Javascript, and
I saw no such code in that file. It's not much different from having an
external link in an article.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Mark Clements

body:
"Bogdan Giusca" <liste at dapyx.com> wrote in
message news:1996630170.20070206155017 at dapyx.com...
> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%99%D0%B8%D1%84%D1%84
>
> Any ru.wiki admin here willing to delete those images?
>
> BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
> in their copyright laws use such images?

As far as I am aware (IANAL), because the servers are in Florida, US law
applies to all WPs regardless of language.

- Mark Clements (HappyDog)


from_name: Daniel Arnold

subject:
[Wikitech-l] embedded links in UI messages (splitted from
	"Major flaws...")

body:
On Tuesday 06 February 2007 02:50:47 Simetrical wrote:
> I suggest you familiarize yourself with sed. A while back I was
> trying to do something pretty similar to this.  After a couple dozen
> languages I was ready to go insane and left off for a few months.
> While it took several hours to figure out how sed worked and run it,
> it was a hell of a lot quicker than it would've been for me to finish
> it all by hand.
>
> Of course, your job may be a little trickier, since you'll probably
> need to run one sed for each specific link that needs replacing, but
> something along the lines of
>
> sed -R s/('anontalkpagetext'.*)\[\[([^]]*IP[^]]*)\]\]/\1\2/ Messages*.php
>
> should be a lot faster than manually replacing same in every file.

It is not that easy. It would work like that provided all messages would be
similar to the english one. But they aren't. Many "translated" messages don't
have any common content with their english counterpart (and sadly some are
also looking to me as if that person never did check the own translation). In
most cases the strings contain more links and different links than the
english ones. So I have to find out manually by content (via Wikipedia
interwiki links for example) where a link is pointing at (which I need to
know in order to replace it.

Furthermore there are quite some other problems like article namespace links,
interwiki/crosswiki links into Wikipedia, translated namespace names in
messages (MessagesCy.php even did have a typo in local namespace name in a
message; did the translator really check his work?).

So I fear this is pure handwork. At least if I want to avoid creating even a
bigger mess.

That's why I call you all for your help. Together this can be solved ways
faster and better and I am sure most of you speak at least one language
different than English and there are more than 150 people subscribed to that
list...

Arnomane


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Mark Clements wrote:
> "Bogdan Giusca" <liste at dapyx.com> wrote in
> message news:1996630170.20070206155017 at dapyx.com...
>> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%99%D0%B8%D1%84%D1%84
>>
>> Any ru.wiki admin here willing to delete those images?
>>
>> BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
>> in their copyright laws use such images?
>
> As far as I am aware (IANAL), because the servers are in Florida, US law
> applies to all WPs regardless of language.

Who cares where the servers are? Wikipedia should be distributable
throughout the world, including reuse and publication.

Fair use is allowed everywhere, there's just some contention on what
qualifies as "fair". There's also some variation in terminology: the Berne
Convention calls it fair practice, and it's known as fair dealing in
English common law. The tests for fair use in the US are somewhat more
inclusive than elsewhere. It remains to be seen whether a result like
Perfect 10 v. Google will be reproduced in courts throughout the world.

IANAL either.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Delirium

body:
Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 7:48:01 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
>
>> Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
>> otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
>> kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
>> been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
>> measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
>> stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
>> what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
>> opposition to their inclusion?
>>
>
> Wikipedia, unlike myspace, still requires reliable sources and from
> what I've seen, that policy is here to stay.
>
> We don't accept original research, unsourceable affirmations or sourcing
> from random blogs and forums.
>
> If you look in the Russian wikipedia article, it even includes an
> IRC log, which wouldn't last one minute on en.wiki! :-)
>

The furry phenomenon has actually been studied academically pretty
extensively, so I would be surprised if there weren't good sources
available.  The problem is more likely that the people who happen to be
writing the articles aren't familiar with the sources, and the people
familiar with the sources---unlike rail fans---aren't editing Wikipedia.

-Mark


from_name: Rob Church

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2007-02-06

body:
On 06/02/07, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> >   18 still FAILING test(s) :(
> >       * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)  [Has never passed]
> >       * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)  [Has never passed]
>
> That's a lie. The first report of them was in the 2007-01-21 test:

No, it's not a lie. Those tests have never passed; I added them *for
that reason*.

A one-off set of "weird" results is expected when the test runner
kicks off for the first time with new data to store.

Rob Church


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] New SVN committer

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Added Charles Pritchard (downchuck), working on Multilingual MediaWiki
branch.

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFyQYCwRnhpk1wk44RArrZAKDWg8MU0X/m7V70mA3Ahh0SSY0YSQCeOpsw
GQpSmdZ74cM/IZzkUYzkDx0=
=bn3e
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from_name: Marco Chiesa

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Milestones

body:
J?v? Sull?v wrote:

>A milestone from the side of small wikipedias:
>V?ro Wikipedia (fiu-vro) passed 1,000 articles last month.
>
>Congatulations to Italians and to our neighbours Finns,
>
>Sulev Iva
>[[fiu-vro:user:V?rok]]
>
>
>
Congratulation to the V?ro speakers as well!
Marco


from_name: Simetrical

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> (As a practical point, the amount of work needed to move everything to
> a new namespace is staggering; it's not something to be done on a
> whim.)

Sysadmins could probably be persuaded to mass-move all
Wikipedia:WikiProject X to WikiProject:X via maintenance script.  Or a
bot could do it.


subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
On Tuesday 06 February 2007 15:07:07 Angela wrote:
> I didn't send that message. Isn't there a way of preventing emails
> with forged headers like this reaching the list?

Hm one thing would be using emails with digital signatures (like for example
Brion does). I did try something like that when I was confronted with the
same problem at wikipedia-de-l.

However I had some problems with signing my PGP/GPG key at CA-Cert (a not
signed certificate is a bit useless IMHO) and didn't find the time do do it
right (why does crypto need to be so complicated ;-).

Arnomane


from_name: Bogdan Giusca

body:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%99%D0%B8%D1%84%D1%84

Any ru.wiki admin here willing to delete those images?

BTW, how come some Wikipedias from countries without a fairuse clause
in their copyright laws use such images?


from_name: Kirill Lokshin

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikienl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > (As a practical point, the amount of work needed to move everything to
> > a new namespace is staggering; it's not something to be done on a
> > whim.)
>
> Sysadmins could probably be persuaded to mass-move all
> Wikipedia:WikiProject X to WikiProject:X via maintenance script.  Or a
> bot could do it.

Yah, but the actual page moves are the trivial part.  It's cleaning up
everything else (templates, instructions, boilerplate, etc.) that
depends on pages being in a certain place that's going to be the
time-consuming part.  (And it's not something that can be done by a
bot, either; it'll require significant work on the part of the actual
WikiProjects being moved.)

Kirill


from_name: Jared Williams

subject:
[Wikitech-l] conversion to Phase III (no,
	you didn't accidentally enter the 2003 archives)

body:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikitech-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
> wiki at marcusbuck.org
> Sent: 06 February 2007 15:43
> To: Wikimedia developers
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] conversion to Phase III (no,you
> didn't accidentally enter the 2003 archives)
>
> > Brion Vibber wrote:
> > > wiki at marcusbuck.org wrote:
> > >> I have investigated the history of the Low Saxon (nds)
> Wikipedia a bit. It
> > was
> > >> updated to Phase III software in January 2004.
> Apparently lots of edits
> > got
> > >> lost in this process (even the main page vanished).
> > >
> > > It should not have caused any lost edits at all, and as
> far as I know
> > > there weren't any. You'll have to be more specific?
> >
> > Note also that the UseModWiki software itself deleted older
> edits, so
> > you'll not see many older edits on some older pages because
> the old wiki
> > software destroyed them long before the conversion.
> >
> > - -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
>
> Okay, when history wasn't preserved at the old wiki, then
> it's no wonder I am
> unable to find so many old versions. So this means that all
> pages only have one
> version before conversion, no matter how often they were
> edited in this time,
> and this one version shows the _last_ edit and there is no
> hint whether they
> were created already earlier, right?
>
> Well, I thought this was an effect of conversion,
> particularly because of old
> edit comments like the one at
> <http://nds.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spraken_vun_de_Wel
> t&diff=prev&oldid=418>:
> "(mol een Anfang, de ole Artikel weer doodblewen bi den Transfer)". It
> translates to: "just a start, the old article vanished due
> conversion".
>
> The oldest version of our Main Page is from January 2 2004. I
> thought it was
> re-created shortly after conversion, but now I guess the
> January 2 version is
> the last edit on the old wiki and conversion took place only
> after January 2.
>
> Two questions that remain: Are there any dumps left from
> pre-conversion times?
> And: How did a 'no history' wiki work? You had to recreate a
> article after a
> vandal page-blank? What about GNU-FDL? And this up until 2004
> for Low Saxon
> wiki?
>
> And I need a third question too: Looking at
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia%27s_oldest_a
> rticles> you can
> see, that the articles "WolfgangMozart" and "ThomasEdison" do
> have more than
> one version before conversion to Phase II. So, did UseModWiki
> only delete some
> of the older edits? When so, which were the criteria?

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?KeptPages

Jared


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

subject: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Commons-l] One new and one old tool

body:
On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 08:39:30PM -0500, Simetrical wrote:
> roman was just given commit access to work on a wikiblame extension

That was that thing we looked at beta of a month ago or so?

If so, one more thought crossed my mind, which I'll note to roman here,
in hopes he's following this thread:

It Would Be Nice If (:-) an editor could see a version of a rendered
page *with just their contributions* -- such as may remain -- marked up
in reverse/color.

Or maybe it's just me who thinks that.  :-)

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274


from_name: Jüvä Sullõv

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Milestones

body:
A milestone from the side of small wikipedias:
V?ro Wikipedia (fiu-vro) passed 1,000 articles last month.

Congatulations to Italians and to our neighbours Finns,

Sulev Iva
[[fiu-vro:user:V?rok]]

6.02.2007 3:22:44, "Jussi-Ville Heiskanen" <cimonavaro at gmail.com> kirot':

>On 2/5/07, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> it.wikipedia broke 250,000 articles in the last few days; it's the
>> seventh one to pass the quarter-million mark. Portugese is close
>> behind - maybe this month for them? Finnish and Norwegian (Norsk, not
>> Nynorsk) are a couple of thousand away from 100,000, so they'll hit
>> their next milestone this month, too.
>
>
>Update on the Finnish wikipedia milestone; current best estimate is we will
>pass 100 000 articles around 24:00 GMT 12th of February (give or take a day
>or two ;)
>
>The Finnish wikipedian community is planning to organize a celebratory
>public event (perhaps a panel/talks and/or a press junket sort of thing; not
>set in stone by any means); perhaps late in March. Anyone wishing to come
>and attend is wellcome, but if you are coming from afar, might be best to
>check the details with me or [[K?ytt?j?:Joonasl]] on the Finnish Wikipedia.
>
>Congratulations to all involved.
>
>
>Thank you. Things are beginning to get interesting on the Finnish Wikipedia.
>In fact it is just about as active and large in size as the English Language
>wikipedia was about at the time I joined in 13th of April, 2003.
>
>--
>--
>Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
>_______________________________________________
>Wikipedia-l mailing list
>Wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>


subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [19797]
	trunk/phase3/includes/Revision.php

body:
On 2/5/07, aaron at svn.wikimedia.org <aaron at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Revision: 19797
> Author:   aaron
> Date:     2007-02-05 15:26:26 -0800 (Mon, 05 Feb 2007)
> . . .
>
> +       /**
> +        * Fetch revision text if it's available to THIS user
> +        * @return string
> +        */
> +       function revText() {
> +               if( !$this->userCan( self::DELETED_TEXT ) ) {
> +                       return "";
> +               } else {
> +                       return $this->getRawText();
> +               }
> +       }

1) You should try to mark any new functions or variables as private,
public, or protected as appropriate.  This was probably intended to be
public.

2) As a more general comment, userCan should probably be deprecated in
favor of a method that works for non-current users too.  Globals
should be avoided where possible, at the very least in lower-level
functions.


from_name: wiki at marcusbuck.org

body:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
> > wiki at marcusbuck.org wrote:
> >> I have investigated the history of the Low Saxon (nds) Wikipedia a bit. It
> was
> >> updated to Phase III software in January 2004. Apparently lots of edits
> got
> >> lost in this process (even the main page vanished).
> >
> > It should not have caused any lost edits at all, and as far as I know
> > there weren't any. You'll have to be more specific?
>
> Note also that the UseModWiki software itself deleted older edits, so
> you'll not see many older edits on some older pages because the old wiki
> software destroyed them long before the conversion.
>
> - -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)

Okay, when history wasn't preserved at the old wiki, then it's no wonder I am
unable to find so many old versions. So this means that all pages only have one
version before conversion, no matter how often they were edited in this time,
and this one version shows the _last_ edit and there is no hint whether they
were created already earlier, right?

Well, I thought this was an effect of conversion, particularly because of old
edit comments like the one at
<http://nds.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spraken_vun_de_Welt&diff=prev&oldid=418>:
"(mol een Anfang, de ole Artikel weer doodblewen bi den Transfer)". It
translates to: "just a start, the old article vanished due conversion".

The oldest version of our Main Page is from January 2 2004. I thought it was
re-created shortly after conversion, but now I guess the January 2 version is
the last edit on the old wiki and conversion took place only after January 2.

Two questions that remain: Are there any dumps left from pre-conversion times?
And: How did a 'no history' wiki work? You had to recreate a article after a
vandal page-blank? What about GNU-FDL? And this up until 2004 for Low Saxon
wiki?

And I need a third question too: Looking at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia%27s_oldest_articles> you can
see, that the articles "WolfgangMozart" and "ThomasEdison" do have more than
one version before conversion to Phase II. So, did UseModWiki only delete some
of the older edits? When so, which were the criteria?

Sch?ne Gr?ten
Slomox
Marcus Buck


from_name: DF

body:
On 2/6/07, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/6/07, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > In other words, no, we may not use the logo on
Wikipedia.
> >
>
> On en it would be allowed in [[wikipedia]] and
> perhaps [[wikimedia foundation]].

Geni,

I must say, I admire your intellectual consistency, if
nothing else.  By extension, all Wikimedia logos
should also be deleted from Commons since they are
unfree.  If the community decided to rebel and delete
all of WMF's dreadfully unfree logos, I'm sure it
would make for some entertaining wikidrama and would
certainly address the immediate problem.

However, since the logos exist to help foster brand
identity and benefit the project, I think a better
solution is to set appropriate usage guidelines and
allow them to be used by users within the various
Wikimedia sites.  I don't think it is either hard or
burdensome to regard "Copyright by Wikimedia" as an
exception to Wikipedia's fair use criteria, and for
the most part that has been the going practice since
forever.

Unfortunately, since the WMF does own the logos, a
certain amount of asking permission does seem to make
sense, but this thread seems to reveal that the
boundaries for what is or is not permitted are largely
unresolved at this time.

-Robert Rohde

____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.


from_name: ScottL

body:
Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 7:48:01 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
>> Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
>> otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
>> kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
>> been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
>> measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
>> stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
>> what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
>> opposition to their inclusion?
>
> Wikipedia, unlike myspace, still requires reliable sources and from
> what I've seen, that policy is here to stay.
>
> We don't accept original research, unsourceable affirmations or sourcing
> from random blogs and forums.
>
> If you look in the Russian wikipedia article, it even includes an
> IRC log, which wouldn't last one minute on en.wiki! :-)

   Last I checked [[WP:RS]] was a guideline and not a policy.
Verifiability is a policy.  Further the content of [[WP:RS]] with
respect to the use of primary sources when documenting primarily or
largely online subjects is contentious at best.  I agree that caution
should be employed before using things like usenet and forums for
references, but I think that common sense (regarding verifiability)
should be used before rejecting them.

SKL


subject: [Wikitech-l] Bandwidth usage

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I took a quick peek at the sampled squid log and found that CSS and JS
files together are eating a lot of bandwidth; together they make up
about 20% of what's served:

https://wikitech.leuksman.com/view/Squid_bandwidth_breakdown

(May be inaccurate due to coding mistakes in my counter or weird dupe
caching effects.)

It should be possible to serve these files compressed through Apache
with mod_gzip set up, which should squish them by probably 2/3.

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFySi4wRnhpk1wk44RAm1tAJ9vgpvqYBvN+l6sX6whsyaGVlw26gCgkD2E
VrBaaLtgtVSwLxU5zA/gbKE=
=8Bky
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


from_name: beesley at gmail.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
Here is the note.
Yours sincerely


from_name: Berto 'd Sera

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Milestones

body:
> A milestone from the side of small wikipedias:
>V?ro Wikipedia (fiu-vro) passed 1,000 articles last month.
My best compliments! I come from a small language and know what it means to
get that nember when your alphabetized users are not to be counted in
millions :)

The first 1.000 mark is the worst. Once you have it you can be sure that
your community will grow, and so will your weight in published material.
Keep going :)

B?rto ?d S?ra
Personagi dl?ann 2006 p?r l?arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti voj?otri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html


from_name: Angela

subject: [Wikitech-l] Complimentary vandalism?

body:
On 2/6/07, Mark Clements <gmane at kennel17.co.uk> wrote:
> On mediawiki.org we quite often seem to get new pages created similar to the
> following:
>
> Page name: /w/w/index.php?title=Extension:Guestbook/w/w/index.php
> Page text: Dear web-master ! I looked your site and I want to say that yor
> very well made it .All information on this site is represented for users. A
> site is made professionally. So to hold !

I believe it's a broken spam bot. If there was a URL field on the page
(as there is on a blog comment form), they would leave their spam link
there If there's no URL field, you just get the silly comment. Try
searching for the text they leave and you will usually find the same
comment on blogs and forums, with the spam.

Angela


from_name: Bryan Derksen

body:
Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> Wikipedia, unlike myspace, still requires reliable sources and from
> what I've seen, that policy is here to stay.

Wikipedia requires _verifiability_. That doesn't necessarily require a
footnote at the end of every sentence. Not that I'd have any objection
if there _was_ a source cited for everything, mind you. I just believe
that the growing fetishization of this process is perhaps causing more
harm in the short term than good. Perfectly good content that nobody
who's familiar with the field would contest is being removed simply
because there isn't a superscripted number next to it.

> If you look in the Russian wikipedia article, it even includes an
> IRC log, which wouldn't last one minute on en.wiki! :-)

I can't read Russian so I don't know exactly what's in that log, but if
it's a quotation provided as an example of the term's usage I don't see
it as being all that big a problem. Plenty of articles have illustrative
examples, even completely made up ones. See
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi#Examples> for instance.


from_name: Marc Riddell

subject: [WikiEN-l] An expanded-topic Mailing List

body:
To one & all,

I have been participating in this Mailing List for a relatively short time,
but in that time I have found us to be a somewhat eclectic- &
diverse-thinking group. This turns me on. (OK, I'm easy :-) )

I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things
Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a
similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader
sociocultural issues are discussed?

Would you participate in such a group?

Your thoughts?

Marc Riddell


from_name: dean williamson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Dr Steel

body:
Can you please add a page dedicated to Dr Steel and his army of Toy
soldiers.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yah, but the actual page moves are the trivial part.  It's cleaning up
> everything else (templates, instructions, boilerplate, etc.) that
> depends on pages being in a certain place that's going to be the
> time-consuming part.  (And it's not something that can be done by a
> bot, either; it'll require significant work on the part of the actual
> WikiProjects being moved.)

Er, isn't this what redirects are for?


from_name: ikiroid

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/6/07, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikienl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Yah, but the actual page moves are the trivial part.  It's cleaning up
> > > everything else (templates, instructions, boilerplate, etc.) that
> > > depends on pages being in a certain place that's going to be the
> > > time-consuming part.  (And it's not something that can be done by a
> > > bot, either; it'll require significant work on the part of the actual
> > > WikiProjects being moved.)
> >
> > Er, isn't this what redirects are for?
>
> They're not going to help when people keep on creating stuff at
> [[Wikipedia:WikiProject ...]] because that's what's being generated by
> templates or specified in instructions.
>
> Kirill
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

Well, while we're on the topic of namespace, why can't the reference desk
be in a different namespace? I doesn't really pertain to wikipedia, so the
Help: section or a new mainspace would be a better location.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikienl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yah, but the actual page moves are the trivial part.  It's cleaning up
> > everything else (templates, instructions, boilerplate, etc.) that
> > depends on pages being in a certain place that's going to be the
> > time-consuming part.  (And it's not something that can be done by a
> > bot, either; it'll require significant work on the part of the actual
> > WikiProjects being moved.)
>
> Er, isn't this what redirects are for?

They're not going to help when people keep on creating stuff at
[[Wikipedia:WikiProject ...]] because that's what's being generated by
templates or specified in instructions.

Kirill


from_name: Rich Holton

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
Mets501 wrote:
> On 2/6/07, stvrtg <stvrtg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Honestly, with the assistance of a banner message, I dont see
>> the whole thing taking less than an hour.
>>
>
> A message to all of the bot owners on their talk pages and said banner would
> make the entire process completely painless.  A simple coding change such as
> changing "Wikipedia:WikiProject " to "WikiProject:" is no big deal.
>

But seriously, why?

-Rich


from_name: stvrtg

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> They're not going to help when people keep on creating stuff at
> [[Wikipedia:WikiProject ...]] because that's what's being generated by
> templates or specified in instructions.

I assume you mean that there are template-bots which
would need re-coding. WP has a large enough workforce
that only a little planning for a single coordinated move
would be required.
Honestly, with the assistance of a banner message, I dont see
the whole thing taking less than an hour.

-SV


subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, stvrtg <stvrtg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Honestly, with the assistance of a banner message, I dont see
> the whole thing taking less than an hour.
>

Or... rather... <more> than an hour. :\

-SV


subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, stvrtg <stvrtg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Honestly, with the assistance of a banner message, I dont see
> the whole thing taking less than an hour.
>

A message to all of the bot owners on their talk pages and said banner would
make the entire process completely painless.  A simple coding change such as
changing "Wikipedia:WikiProject " to "WikiProject:" is no big deal.

--Mets501


subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, ikiroid <ikiroid at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, while we're on the topic of namespace, why can't the reference desk
> be in a different namespace? I doesn't really pertain to wikipedia, so the
> Help: section or a new mainspace would be a better location.

Because that would lend support to the argument that people
are going namespace crazy.
Certainly there are practical limits (aside from the technical limits on
"Project)"
by which a help: namespace doesnt seem unreasonable.

Recall that making a new namespace just serves the purpose
of isolating stuff thats meta from the main namespace for the encyclopedia.
The idea of dividing up the meta namespace is based in the idea that
save keystrokes (like Eskimos vs "Eskimo people") and therefore it will
somehow be more appealing and get more use.
Whether that is true or not is debatable according
to different peoples views about how cost/benefit.

Technically speaking, I think it would look snazzy.
-SV


body:
on 2/6/07 7:18 PM, NSLE (Wikipedia) at nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com wrote:

> I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.

I don't know what #wikipedia is.

Marc


from_name: Александр Сигачёв

body:
Iomete cxe

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://nds.wikipedia.com

--
Alexander Sigachov


body:
on 2/6/07 7:57 PM, geni at geniice at gmail.com wrote:

> IRC channel at:
>
> irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia
>
> see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC
>
> Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most
> likely to go off topic.

Thank you. I honestly didn't know this existed - now I do.

Thanks again,

Marc


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
On 06/02/07, Michael Bimmler <mbimmler at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Imagine the crazy fun that could be had on April Fools' Day if we were
> > a bit more malicious.

> Crazy? Yes.
> Fun? Well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP%3ALAME#Wheel_wars

- d.


from_name: Александр Сигачёв

body:
> Any ru.wiki admin here willing to delete those images?

Reported at local image discussion forum
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/?????????:?????/???????????

--
Alexander Sigachov


from_name: Thomas Dalton

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
> Sysadmins could probably be persuaded to mass-move all
> Wikipedia:WikiProject X to WikiProject:X via maintenance script.  Or a
> bot could do it.

It doesn't require the devs, a simple bot could do it.


from_name: Guettarda

body:
On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) <nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.

IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before sending
them that way.

On 07/02/07, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > To one & all,
> >
> > I have been participating in this Mailing List for a relatively short
> > time,
> > but in that time I have found us to be a somewhat eclectic- &
> > diverse-thinking group. This turns me on. (OK, I'm easy :-) )
> >
> > I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all
> > things
> > Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a
> > similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader
> > sociocultural issues are discussed?
> >
> > Would you participate in such a group?
> >
> > Your thoughts?
> >
> > Marc Riddell
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Bogdan Giusca

body:
Tuesday, February 6, 2007, 7:48:01 PM, Bryan wrote:

> Perhaps just as troublesome is the fact that improperly illustrated or
> otherwise the Russian Wikipedia is able to put together an eight
> kilobyte article on [[Yiff]] while the English Wikipedia's entry has
> been pared down to just three sentences and then put on AfD for good
> measure. We've got decent articles on incredibly obscure species, train
> stations, roads, towns with five inhabitants, elementary schools, etc.,
> what's the problem with webcomics and furries that seems to draw such
> opposition to their inclusion?

Wikipedia, unlike myspace, still requires reliable sources and from
what I've seen, that policy is here to stay.

We don't accept original research, unsourceable affirmations or sourcing
from random blogs and forums.

If you look in the Russian wikipedia article, it even includes an
IRC log, which wouldn't last one minute on en.wiki! :-)


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

body:
brion at pobox.com wrote:
> An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:
>
> This is MediaWiki version 1.10alpha (r19802).
>
<snip>
>   18 still FAILING test(s) :(
>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)  [Has never passed]
>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)  [Has never passed]

That's a lie. The first report of them was in the 2007-01-21 test:

> This is MediaWiki version 1.10alpha (r19546).
>
<snip>
>
>    2 new FAILING test(s)  :(
>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)
>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)

So, what happened?

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Minh Nguyen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Complimentary vandalism?

body:
Mark Clements wrote:
> On mediawiki.org we quite often seem to get new pages created similar to the
> following:
>
> Page name: /w/w/index.php?title=Extension:Guestbook/w/w/index.php
> Page text: Dear web-master ! I looked your site and I want to say that yor
> very well made it .All information on this site is represented for users. A
> site is made professionally. So to hold !
>
> The similarities are that the pages titles always contain index.php?title=xx
> (with various depths of /w or /wiki) and that the message is congratulating
> us on our site.  The user is always an anon, but without being able to
> search the deleted pages I don't know whether the IP address is always the
> same.  There never seems to be any link spam or any of the other common
> vandalism/spamming traits in the page text.
>
> Have any other wikis experienced this?  Some kind of spambot gone wrong, or
> a mischievous repeat visitor?  It's happened too often for me to think it's
> a genuine congratulatory comment posted by someone with a screwy browser...
>
> Is there anything we can do about it?
>
> - Mark Clements (HappyDog)

Very likely, it is a spambot, but it's not gone wrong. Having maintained
my own weblog for several years, I've found that spammers often leave
very innocuous-looking comments at first, to see how and how quickly the
moderator/admin/owner of the site reacts. Then come the links. Unless
for whatever reason a page at mediawiki.org links to
[[Extension:Guestbook/w/w/index.php]], the very fact that this bot uses
an extension like .php at the end of the title means that it's a spambot.

Also note that many more spambots are designed for blogging software
like Movable Type and Wordpress, so they might be guessing URLs based on
how those software packages work.

With spammers, the IP addresses always change (they've gotten good about
that over the past few years), so I suppose the best way to control
these "scout messages" is to grep [[Special:Newpages]] regularly for
telltale page titles (like ".php") and delete on sight.

--
Minh Nguyen <mxn at zoomtown.com>
[[en:User:Mxn]] [[vi:User:Mxn]] [[m:User:Mxn]]
AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: mxn at myjabber.net; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Antwort: Re: MediaWiki automated test run failure
 2007-02-06

body:
christoph.huesler at css.ch wrote:
> Alphax wrote:
>> That's a lie. The first report of them was in the 2007-01-21 test:
>>
>>> This is MediaWiki version 1.10alpha (r19546).
>>>
>> <snip>
>>>    2 new FAILING test(s)  :(
>>>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)
>>>       * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)
>> So, what happened?
>
> They never passed the test, but were failing since someone added them.
> So... no, it's correct, isn't it?
>

Err... I must have been reading that as "previously passing now failing"...

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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body:
GerardM wrote:
> Hoi,
> Check out the number of users on the Persian Wikipedia and compare it with
> the number of people actually editing..
> Any metric is wrong; there is no one size fits all solution.
> NB On wiktionary there is nothing wrong with using bots to create content.
> What you do not see is the preparation that went before they actually
> uploaded things.
>
> It is not nice nor is it correct to talk down on the effort of the
> Vietnamese Wiktionary crowd.
>
> Thanks,
>      GerardM

No offense taken. :) I actually discussed this with Brianna the other
day. And the actual importing was done by a French Wiktionarian (Laurent
Bouvier) anyways.

--
Minh Nguyen <mxn at zoomtown.com>
[[en:User:Mxn]] [[vi:User:Mxn]] [[m:User:Mxn]]
AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: mxn at myjabber.net; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/


from_name: Michael Bimmler

subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
On 2/6/07, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Imagine the crazy fun that could be had on April Fools' Day if we were
> a bit more malicious.
>
Crazy? Yes.
Fun? Well...

Michael


body:
on 2/6/07 7:57 PM, geni at geniice at gmail.com wrote:

> IRC channel at:
>
> irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia
>
> see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC
>
> Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most
> likely to go off topic.

I just took a good look at this; while it does stray into issues other than
WP, it doesn't have the focus I'm speaking of.

I'm talking about an actual Mailing List, set up like this one, where the
primary purpose & focus is discussing sociocultural issues.

Marc Riddell


from_name: Sage Ross

body:
On 2/6/07, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) <nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
>
>
> IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before sending
> them that way.

I second that.  Last time I was in #wikipedia, I actually got
chastised for trying to draw attention to something actually relevant
to Wikipedia.

Anyhow, I would be potentially interested in the proposed list.

-Sage


from_name: Stan Shebs

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
stvrtg wrote:
> On 2/6/07, Rich Holton <richholton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> But seriously, why?
>>
>
>
> [[Namespaces]], as any programmer can tell you, are a convenient and novel
> way to separate different kinds of data - to give indentify a kind of
> context for the data therin.
>
And many of those same programmers will tell you that in practice,
namespaces can generate their own nightmare of trying to figure out
which namespace things are in this week, and it's often the case that
the horrendous namespace structure was imposed by busybody
coding-standard-writers who don't actually make any useful contributions
to functionality. 1/2 :-)
> On WP, the general principle has been to keep the main free of metadata.
> Meta stuff
> traditionally belongs in the Wikipedia: namespace. I suggest the idea
> because
> using a separate project namespace might be a way to feature projects to
> emphasise
> the idea of getting used to joining and working within certain projects .
>
I work in several wikiprojects, and have yet to hear someone say - "you
know, we're really being handicapped by not having our own namespace".
Projects have plenty of content problems taking up their attention, they
don't need other people coming in and moving their pages around.

Stan


from_name: Samuel Klein

body:
This is cute.
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NotSuckBanner.jpg

It strikes me that images such as this one, which use project logos (not
the Foundation logo) should

  a) be available under a specific license describing how they can be
reused without permission
  b) be fairly unrestricted for community use, allowing derivations

Of course there are trademark recourses for those who use the images to
mislead others; but community members illustrating or celebrating work
they are doing on and for Wikipedia are not being misleading.

There has been work in other communities regarding distinguishing between
"official" and open-use community logos.  For instance, you can see
Debian's dual logos here:
    http://www.debian.org/logos/  [1]

--SJ

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, DF wrote:

> Wikimedia's logos are copyrighted and trademarked.
> Notwithstanding this, the logos have been placed on a
> large number of pages under circumstances where other
> copyrighted works would never be used.  Often this is
> done simply for identification (e.g. this page is
> about Wikipedia, so it has the Wikipedia logo), and
> other times it is done for what might be called
> promotional reasons.  Most such uses undoubtedly occur
> without any direct input from the Foundation.
>
> For examples, see the links on:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-logo-en.png
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-logo.png
>
> In addition, any image that incorporates a Wikimedia
> logo has generally been marked "Copyright by
> Wikimedia", regardless of the image's immediate
> author:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:CopyrightByWikimedia
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:CopyrightByWikimedia
>
> Some of these have apparently been created by
> Wikipedians specifically to promote Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Banners_and_buttons
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_promotion
>
> Recently, one of these promotional
> banners(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NotSuckBanner.jpg)
> was deleted (and now temporarily undeleted, subject to
> deletion review) essentially for violating Wikipedia's
> rules on the use of copyrighted works.  (Or in other
> words, because it was a copyrighted image not being
> used in an article.)
>
> Now many of us believe that there could reasonably be
> an exception to Wikipedia's copyright rules when it
> comes to images owned by Wikimedia itself, especially
> if they serve a useful purpose like promoting
> Wikipedia.  However, because of the unique role that
> the logos play in the visual identity of Wikipedia, I
> wanted to come here and get guidance from the
> Foundation about what constitutes acceptable use.  I
> would appreciate it if people would review the
> materials on the pages linked above and give some
> direction on when logos can be incorporated in other
> images and what kinds of pages they might reasonably
> be used on.  In particular, are promotional tools like
> banners and the like acceptable?
>
> -Robert Rohde
> aka Dragons_flight on EN
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
> http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: Platonides

subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
Angela wrote:
> I didn't send that message. Isn't there a way of preventing emails
> with forged headers like this reaching the list?
>
> Angela

This was done before with Brion's email. He then put his address under
moderation. Could be done for you too, though imho it's impractical.

Arnomane, does mailman prevent emails with invalid signatures from being
posted?


body:
On 06/02/07, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain at gmail.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that there are the formal visual identity guidelines:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines
> Although these seem mainly to apply to the Wikimedia logo and not to
> the individual project logos also.

Delphine clarified that this was the case on the comcom list as well -
the visual identity guidelines are specifically about the Wikimedia
logo, not the puzzle globe.

Which may be something worth reconsidering, seeing as it's "Wikipedia"
(and the puzzle globe) that's the number four brand by some reckoning
or other, and no-one's ever heard of Wikimedia.

- d.


from_name: geni

body:
On 2/6/07, DF <dragons_flight at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now many of us believe that there could reasonably be
> an exception to Wikipedia's copyright rules when it
> comes to images owned by Wikimedia itself, especially
> if they serve a useful purpose like promoting
> Wikipedia.

The amount of energy required to police such a system that it would be
much less work simply to limit the use of the logo in the same way we
limit use of other unfree media.

--
geni


from_name: Rob Church

subject: [Wikitech-l] Your details

body:
On 06/02/07, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't send that message. Isn't there a way of preventing emails
> with forged headers like this reaching the list?

How do we know you didn't send it, and then ask an accomplice to
disclaim it using faked mail headers!? Oh, the impersonation
conspiracies.

On the plus side, if you want to spam anything, here's your chance to
do it without irking people, since we all know you're having
"difficulties"....

Rob Church


body:
On 06/02/07, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/5/07, aaron at svn.wikimedia.org <aaron at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > Revision: 19797
> > Author:   aaron
> > Date:     2007-02-05 15:26:26 -0800 (Mon, 05 Feb 2007)
> > . . .
> >
> > +       /**
> > +        * Fetch revision text if it's available to THIS user
> > +        * @return string
> > +        */
> > +       function revText() {
> > +               if( !$this->userCan( self::DELETED_TEXT ) ) {
> > +                       return "";
> > +               } else {
> > +                       return $this->getRawText();
> > +               }
> > +       }
>
> 1) You should try to mark any new functions or variables as private,
> public, or protected as appropriate.  This was probably intended to be
> public.
>
> 2) As a more general comment, userCan should probably be deprecated in
> favor of a method that works for non-current users too.  Globals
> should be avoided where possible, at the very least in lower-level
> functions.

Learn to write better function names, too; "revText()" is a bit ambiguous.

Rob Church


body:
On 06/02/07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Gerard schreef:

> > Delphine clarified that this was the case on the comcom list as well -
> > the visual identity guidelines are specifically about the Wikimedia
> > logo, not the puzzle globe.
> > Which may be something worth reconsidering, seeing as it's "Wikipedia"
> > (and the puzzle globe) that's the number four brand by some reckoning
> > or other, and no-one's ever heard of Wikimedia.

> It is one thing to communicate this on the comcom list. This does not
> make it universally known.

You have read something that I didn't write. I didn't say it did. What
I said was that she emphasised it there. Your response also says
nothing about the actual point of what I wrote, which was the second
paragraph.

- d.


body:
On 2/6/07, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
> In other words, no, we may not use the logo on Wikipedia.
>

On en it would be allowed in [[wikipedia]] and perhaps [[wikimedia foundation]].

--
geni


from_name: Jim Hu

subject: [Wikitech-l] Complimentary vandalism?

body:
On Feb 6, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Minh Nguyen wrote:
<snip>
> Very likely, it is a spambot, but it's not gone wrong. Having
> maintained
> my own weblog for several years, I've found that spammers often leave
> very innocuous-looking comments at first, to see how and how
> quickly the
> moderator/admin/owner of the site reacts. Then come the links. Unless
> for whatever reason a page at mediawiki.org links to
> [[Extension:Guestbook/w/w/index.php]], the very fact that this bot
> uses
> an extension like .php at the end of the title means that it's a
> spambot.

Wouldn't the parser strip the links they tried to put in?  On the
blogs and bbs that I administer, the bots try and don't bother
checking back to see if they got through.

>
> Also note that many more spambots are designed for blogging software
> like Movable Type and Wordpress, so they might be guessing URLs
> based on
> how those software packages work.
>
> With spammers, the IP addresses always change (they've gotten good
> about
> that over the past few years), so I suppose the best way to control
> these "scout messages" is to grep [[Special:Newpages]] regularly for
> telltale page titles (like ".php") and delete on sight.

The sophisticated spammers use botnets, but others don't bother to
shift IPs.  I think there's been a population explosion in naive
spammers in the past month or so.  I've blocked >50K trackback spam
attempts at my blog just in Feb 2007. 13,236 are from one IP, which
tried  29,332 times in January.  And these are obscure sites!  Maybe
a lot of people got "make money at home by spamming" kits for Xmas.

>
> --
> Minh Nguyen <mxn at zoomtown.com>
> [[en:User:Mxn]] [[vi:User:Mxn]] [[m:User:Mxn]]
> AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: mxn at myjabber.net; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

body:
David Gerard schreef:
> On 06/02/07, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Keep in mind that there are the formal visual identity guidelines:
>> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines
>> Although these seem mainly to apply to the Wikimedia logo and not to
>> the individual project logos also.
>>
>
>
> Delphine clarified that this was the case on the comcom list as well -
> the visual identity guidelines are specifically about the Wikimedia
> logo, not the puzzle globe.
>
> Which may be something worth reconsidering, seeing as it's "Wikipedia"
> (and the puzzle globe) that's the number four brand by some reckoning
> or other, and no-one's ever heard of Wikimedia.
>
>
> - d.
Hoi,
It is one thing to communicate this on the comcom list. This does not
make it universally known.
Thanks,
     GerardM


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2007-02-07

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

This is MediaWiki version 1.10alpha (r19811).

Reading tests from "maintenance/parserTests.txt"...
Reading tests from "extensions/Cite/citeParserTests.txt"...
Reading tests from "extensions/Poem/poemParserTests.txt"...

   3 previously failing test(s) now PASSING! :)
      * Blank ref followed by ref with content  [Fixed between 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802) and 07-Feb-2007 08:15:18, 1.10alpha (r19811)]
      * Regression: non-blank ref "0" followed by ref with content  [Fixed between 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802) and 07-Feb-2007 08:15:18, 1.10alpha (r19811)]
      * Regression sanity check: non-blank ref "1" followed by ref with content  [Fixed between 06-Feb-2007 08:15:27, 1.10alpha (r19802) and 07-Feb-2007 08:15:18, 1.10alpha (r19811)]

  18 still FAILING test(s) :(
      * URL-encoding in URL functions (single parameter)  [Has never passed]
      * URL-encoding in URL functions (multiple parameters)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)  [Has never passed]
      * BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Mixing markup for italics and bold  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: dt/dd/dl test  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Images with the "|" character in the comment  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, without trailing slash or name.  [Has never passed]
      * TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, with lots of extra trailing slashes.  [Has never passed]

Passed 493 of 511 tests (96.48%)... 18 tests failed!


from_name: stvrtg

subject: [WikiEN-l] Project as namespace

body:
On 2/6/07, Rich Holton <richholton at gmail.com> wrote:

> But seriously, why?

[[Namespaces]], as any programmer can tell you, are a convenient and novel
way to separate different kinds of data - to give indentify a kind of
context for the data therin.

On WP, the general principle has been to keep the main free of metadata.
Meta stuff
traditionally belongs in the Wikipedia: namespace. I suggest the idea
because
using a separate project namespace might be a way to feature projects to
emphasise
the idea of getting used to joining and working within certain projects .

With WP growth the need for specialised meta namespaces seems a bit obvious
to me
- but thats one basic argument. As other wikis have done, maybe you might
want to
ask why those who have have already done so?

-SV


from_name: Matthew Flaschen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Complimentary vandalism?

body:
Minh Nguyen wrote:
> With spammers, the IP addresses always change (they've gotten good about
> that over the past few years), so I suppose the best way to control
> these "scout messages" is to grep [[Special:Newpages]] regularly for
> telltale page titles (like ".php") and delete on sight.

An admin bot should be able to delete those pages automatically, if
someone cares to write it.

Matthew Flaschen

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Bandspam

body:
<gripe>
I suggest the new term "bandspam" to refer to the promotional pushing of
song links etc
as a way to differentiate internal linkspam from the nominal external
variety. Bands of course
are the most typical form, but sometimes people
Im of course talking about hatnotes - anything on disambig pages should be
fair game.

Current example; some fan pushing this important note at the top of [[Space
suit]]:
*
    "Space Suit" is also an instrumental track from They Might Be Giants'
     1992 album* Apollo 18<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_18_%28album%29>
*.*
  A *space suit* is a complex system of gaments, equipment and environmental

  systems designed to keep a person alive...

-SV


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikitech-l] Complimentary vandalism?

body:
Ye $, ?n m?ny sma!! W!ki$ the s a m e th!ng happens, although not
nece$$ari!y at fv nky paeg titlee$ (sometimes it i# on the main t a l
k p a g e or somewhere similar).

It's always f unny to see !t get r3moevd as vand ali$m, though -- the
first few t!mes I s aw it, I thought osmeone was r3 moevn!g !3g!t com
pli m3ntzzs to that Wiki.

Mar k !!!C H 3 A P!!!

On 06/02/07, Mark Clements <gmane at kennel17.co.uk> wrote:
> On mediawiki.org we quite often seem to get new pages created similar to the
> following:
>
> Page name: /w/w/index.php?title=Extension:Guestbook/w/w/index.php
> Page text: Dear web-master ! I looked your site and I want to say that yor
> very well made it .All information on this site is represented for users. A
> site is made professionally. So to hold !
>
> The similarities are that the pages titles always contain index.php?title=xx
> (with various depths of /w or /wiki) and that the message is congratulating
> us on our site.  The user is always an anon, but without being able to
> search the deleted pages I don't know whether the IP address is always the
> same.  There never seems to be any link spam or any of the other common
> vandalism/spamming traits in the page text.
>
> Have any other wikis experienced this?  Some kind of spambot gone wrong, or
> a mischievous repeat visitor?  It's happened too often for me to think it's
> a genuine congratulatory comment posted by someone with a screwy browser...
>
> Is there anything we can do about it?
>
> - Mark Clements (HappyDog)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bandspam

body:
stvrtg wrote:

><gripe>
>I suggest the new term "bandspam" to refer to the promotional pushing of
>song links etc
>as a way to differentiate internal linkspam from the nominal external
>variety. Bands of course
>are the most typical form, but sometimes people
>Im of course talking about hatnotes - anything on disambig pages should be
>fair game.
>
>Current example; some fan pushing this important note at the top of [[Space
>suit]]:
>*
>    "Space Suit" is also an instrumental track from They Might Be Giants'
>     1992 album* Apollo 18<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_18_%28album%29>
>*.*
>  A *space suit* is a complex system of gaments, equipment and environmental
>
>  systems designed to keep a person alive...
>
>
Hmmm!  FWIW, this is distinctly different from my first impression of
the word.  My inclination was not to see "band" in the sense of a
musical group, but in the sense of a range of values as in "bandwidth"
or "broad band".  Thus "bandspam" gives me the impression of spam that
is being sent to a wide band of IP addresses.

Ec


from_name: Andre Engels

body:
2007/2/6, geni <geniice at gmail.com>:
>
> On 2/6/07, DF <dragons_flight at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Now many of us believe that there could reasonably be
> > an exception to Wikipedia's copyright rules when it
> > comes to images owned by Wikimedia itself, especially
> > if they serve a useful purpose like promoting
> > Wikipedia.
>
> The amount of energy required to police such a system that it would be
> much less work simply to limit the use of the logo in the same way we
> limit use of other unfree media.

In other words, no, we may not use the logo on Wikipedia.

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels


subject: [Wikitech-l] Bandwidth usage

body:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
> I'm not sure if the Wikipedia cookie is
> being treated as authentication for the purposes of this definition, but if it is, caching
> the site-wide CSS or JS seems unlikely to hurt (since it really is "public") - but
> obviously caching the user-specific CSS or JS would be bad.

Why?  User-specific CSS and JS is still public.

Matthew Flaschen

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subject: [WikiEN-l] [Possible spam]Re:  Bandspam

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 00:32:07 -0500, stvrtg <stvrtg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I suggest the new term "bandspam" to refer to the promotional pushing of
>>song links
>>
>>
>What's wrong with the existing term, Vanispamcruftisement?
>
Remembering it.

Ec


subject: [Wikitech-l] Bandwidth usage

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> I took a quick peek at the sampled squid log and found that CSS and JS
> files together are eating a lot of bandwidth; together they make up
> about 20% of what's served:
>
> https://wikitech.leuksman.com/view/Squid_bandwidth_breakdown
>
> (May be inaccurate due to coding mistakes in my counter or weird dupe
> caching effects.)
>
> It should be possible to serve these files compressed through Apache
> with mod_gzip set up, which should squish them by probably 2/3.

Is there a reason everything shouldn't be compressed?

Matthew Flaschen

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body:
On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
> on 2/6/07 7:18 PM, NSLE (Wikipedia) at nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
>
> I don't know what #wikipedia is.
>
> Marc
>

IRC channel at:

irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC

Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most
likely to go off topic.

--
geni


from_name: Matthew Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] [Possible spam]Re: Bandspam

body:
On 2/7/07, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> We've been through this particular one on the list before. A useful
> way of dealing with it is to put {{otheruses}} on the main article and
> make a disambiguation page with two entries. Everything is where it
> belongs and the song links at the top of generic articles don't make
> you go "wtf?"

Exactly.  Most of the time, there's no evil intent whatsoever - just
the fact that rabid fans have different priorities and don't see that
others might not care or might find those links annoying.  A
disambiguation page takes care of that problem and helps with the
genuine cases of mis-linking.

-Matt