from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:24:05 +0200, Andre Engels <andrewiki at freemail.nl> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:20:42 -0700 Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, it appears that is *exactly* what is being done at
> >http://na.wikipedia.org/
> >
> >I have investigated and na.wikipedia as well as na.wiktionary appear
> >to be totally fraudulent. I'm not sure what language they *are* in,
> >but it sure as hell isn't Nauruan - the dead giveaway is "el welcomi
> >gua wikipedia gua nauruoese" - a number of hints in that one sentence:
> >1 "welcomi" is *not* a Nauruan word, teh Nauruan word for "welcome" is
> >"talofa" 2 The Nauruan language for itself is not "nauruoese" but
> >rather "nauri".
>
> na.wiktionary does not really exist, so how can it be fraudulent?

http://na.wiktionary.org/wiki/Main_Page

Sure, it may have 0 articles, but at least the text of the mainpage
isn't real Nauruan.

> >In addition the names of articles can be used as an example. "Langue"
> >is not Nauruan for language, the Nauruan word would be "ekakairu" or
> >"edorer". "Nasion" is not Nauruan for nation, the Nauruan word would
> >be "ename" or "eponname". "Xiao" is not Nauruan for city, the Nauruan
> >word would be "tekawa". Of course since "Suaong" has no interwiki link
> >I cannot tell what it's supposed to mean, but suffice to say the word
> >does not appear in any Nauruan dictionary.
>
> I have done a look, and haven't been able to recognize the language.
>
> [[Nauru Bwiema]] seems to be real Nauruan, but other parts have indeed
> another feel, more like a Romanic language; Spanish seems to be closest, but
> I know too little to say that with any certainty. But then "Liao gu Xiao"
> sounds more like Chinese (although going from Spanish we could perhaps
> etymologize Xiao=Ciudad).

Yes, I think Nauru Bwiema was copied from the actual text of the
Nauruan national anthem.

As for the real language, it seems more to me like Occitan than Spanish.

--node


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Med

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: How to get a list of all pages without
	interlanguage links

body:
Vina Wang wrote:

> Which is a better way?  Also, if it is the SQL query, who will be able to
> help me with it?

Me! I did a SQL with the latest dump. I made a file which contains the list
of the articles with no interwiki :
http://mboquien.free.fr/nointer_zh.zip . It is coded in UTF-8.

Have fun,

Med


from_name: Yann Forget

subject: [Wikitech-l] WikiCommons wishes

body:
Le Monday 27 September 2004 23:32, Brion Vibber a ?crit :
> On Sep 27, 2004, at 5:09 AM, Yann Forget wrote:
> >> The _preferred_ syntax would be no syntax at all. For a Media or
> >> Image-link, first the local wiki is checked whether it exists. If
> >> not, it
> >> is looked at in WikiCommons. This is preferred, because it is how
> >> thing will go in the Erik's envisioned 'fully operating' WikiCommons.
> >
> > No. It is necessary that the image from Commons can be forced over an
> > image with the same name in the local wiki.
>
> Any reason that this must be necessary?

I can easily imagine that images in local wikis and Wikicommons have the same
name. I want to be able to choose which one I want to use.

You can't avoid uploading images in Wikicommons with a name which is already
used in a local wiki.

And if there has to be a default, it should be Wikicommons, I think.

> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


list: wikipedia-l

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Capitalisation on the French Wiktionary

body:
Hi,

There is another reason to differentiate capitalized words.

I think that the first useful use of Wiktionary is to learn a foreign
language, especially for a beginner. You don't need a complete dictionary for
that, you just need the most common words, which you already have in English,
or will have soon in other languages.

If I use Wiktionary to learn English, I need to know that the language of
England is spelled [[English]] and not [[english]], and that the fist month
of the year is written [[January]] and not [[january]]. The same situation
occurs in any language which uses capitals (English, German, French, etc.).
In German, a cat is spelled [[Katze]] and not [[katze]], and in French,
[[chat]] and not [[Chat]].

Regards,
Yann

--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


list: wiktionary-l

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Re: Capitalisation on the French Wiktionary


from_name: Muke Tever

subject:
[Wiktionary-l] Checking capitalisation and the resurrection of
	"wikt"

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:07:44 +0200, Gerard Meijssen <gerardm at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>>> It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the
>>> references for
>>> Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you
>>> all the words in a language.
>>
>> Up to five hundred words.  Not nearly "all".
>
> Muke, at this point in time with *4925* words in nl:wiktionary 500 words
> is sufficient. When I have finished with the conversion, I will look
> into using the output from queries to create content pages for the
> languages. This will overcome the still theoretic limit of 500 words.
>
> One question, do you have something positive to say as well, or can you
> only repeat yourself? I have heard you say this more than once.

Only as you keep repeating that it will give "all" words, which implies continuity.

> PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did you
> find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better
> alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I prefer
> something positive in stead of something negative.

I have already suggested putting words in categories.  You can add [[Category:Nederlands]] to your [[Template:-nl-]].

Perhaps Mediawiki doesn't handle large categories well yet, but it is better than whatlinkshere, and since you only have 4925 words so far, the developers will have time to make the categories efficienter before you begin to stress them--even if such doesn't happen to be the case, an index could be made from the category listing, and the category link removed from the template.    (Still, I wouldn't try this on en, though we are doing it on la, which by no accounts is expected to grow _very_ large.)

	*Muke!
--
website:     http://frath.net/
LiveJournal: http://kohath.livejournal.com/
deviantArt:  http://kohath.deviantart.com/

FrathWiki, a conlang and conculture wiki:
http://wiki.frath.net/


from_name: Tim Starling

subject:
[Wikitech-l] The difficulty of collaborative design in a volunteer
	enviornment

body:
Magnus Manske wrote:
> Yesterday, Erik Moeller mentioned that it might be best to hold off with
> the wikidata development, and instead do that in a "quantum leap"
> MediaWiki 2.0 version.
>
> Which got me thinking: Should we start this (at least, plan it)?

Forgive me for being jaded from past experience with MediaWiki
development, but I care very little for plans. We have unbelievable
numbers of plans piled up on meta and on the mailing list. The people
who propose them generally overestimate the available developer
workload, and fail to consider an important part of developer motivation.

In my experience, volunteer developers don't like being told what to do.
Part of the fun of coding comes from creative expression -- the joy that
comes from having an idea, and carrying it through until you see it
realised. By publishing plans, you destroy that motivation for anyone
else who had the same idea, or might have had it in the future.

What developers do when faced with this problem is they attempt to
ignore all plans which have gone before. They invent their own, and fool
themselves into thinking that their idea is truly creative and new. This
allows them to regain the motivation that was lost.

It's not surprising then that every MediaWiki developer has their own
plans for database schema redesign. I'm not going to comment on their
similarity for fear of negating the reason the reason for their existence.

This curious aspect of volunteer psychology makes collaborative design
very difficult. Fortunately there is an alternative which allows us to
avoid the most obvious planning mistakes, and that is by the use of an
oracle.

It works like this. When you have an idea which is complex and prone to
errors, you don't publish it, you privately discuss it with senior
developers. These developers have been active with the project for a
long time. They have had many ideas of their own which they haven't had
time to code, they have read many public proposals, and they have had
many private planning discussions. Hence they know a great deal about
possible design directions.

The oracle responds to an idea carefully, either saying that it sounds
like a good idea, or explaining why it wouldn't work. They avoid
bursting the developer's carefully constructed bubble by giving them
mailing list references to identical proposals. The oracle should accept
ideas which are slightly different to the way they would have done it --
those differences represent the creative expression which we are trying
to preserve.

There are a couple of problems with this scheme. One is that project
knowledge is concentrated in the senior developers, so their loss is a
great loss to the project. The other is that it discourages public
discussion, and so limits the pool of collective wisdom. But there is no
other way. Many developers simply will not code something that has been
designed by someone else.

In our project, this role of oracle is filled by Brion, and I'd like to
think to a lesser extent myself. The oracle is a model, design knowledge
is never truly concentrated in a single person. We have a number of
knowledgable people on the project. And even the most senior developers
need to discuss their own ideas among themselves.

Magnus' plan sounds fine.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> I am currently checking the capitalisation and I have done the
>> HIJKLMNOPQR U - I am working on the S at the moment. One of the
>> things that is  noticable is that some words for languages are
>> capitalised and others are not in the same language. I would think
>> that there would be a rule that all names for languages are
>> capitalised (like en: and nl:) or not (like fr: fi: it:).
>
>
> The English tendency is certainly to capitalize the language or
> national name when there is a clear connection, but one would still
> have an "english horn", "franch safe" and "chinese cabbage".  The rule
> in this regard is unstable.
>
> Ec
>
The "english horn" would be a seperate entry in a wiktionary. What I am
concerned with at the moment are that ALL nouns for a lanuage in French
are not capitalised. I have languages where the entries are not
consequent. I would like to have people check this out for me. It is
relatively easy to find all words of one language: the references for
Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you
all the words in a language.

At this moment the "wikt" template is working again in wikipedia. As the
dictionary content is more and more available and moved from wikipedia,
I find that the numbers of visitors in nl:wiktionary is increasing. Best
of all, there are more people contributing to nl:wiktionary as a result.

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Angela

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia in Swahili: Help!

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:04:31 +0200, pinco <pinco at kiesperanto.org> wrote:
> I'm interested in the swahili version of it and I've noticed that there
> are some minor mistakes in the not editable areas of the pages, i.e.
> menus, options, etc.

There are two ways the text in the menus and options can be changed.
The easiest way is to edit the templates in the MediaWiki namespace
which you can find at
http://sw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Allmessages. The other way is to
create a Language.php file. See
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language.php

You need to be an admin to edit the MediaWiki namespace, and once you
have more experience, you can ask for adminship at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/requests_for_permissions but I'd be a
bit wary about granting this immediately since you only have five
edits. I've left a more detailed explanation on your talk page at sw.

Angela.


from_name: pinco

body:
Hi all,

I've discovered Wikipedia thanks to Laurent Godard who wrote a macro for
OpenOffice.

I'm interested in the swahili version of it and I've noticed that there
are some minor mistakes in the not editable areas of the pages, i.e.
menus, options, etc.

Can you help me to understand how can I suggest corrections and
contribute to translate the templates?

Thanks a lot,
Nino

--
http://www.vessella.it (italiano, esperanto, kiswahili, english)
http://www.changamano.org (Iniziative di solidariet? per la Tanzania)
http://www.lernado.it (Articoli di quotidiani della Tanzania, Corso di lingua swahili, Corso di lingua esperanto, Vocabolario esperanto-italiano, Jifunze lugha ya Kiesperanto, Kamusi ya Kiesperanto)


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Hyperlink convention

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:05:46 +0100, Pete/Pcb21
<pete_pcb21_wpmail at pcbartlett.com> wrote:
> Angela wrote:
>
> > 1) so you can use "what links here" from the date pages to find
> > everything that happened on that date
>
> But the day of year and year are linked separately, making this
> effectively useless. I'd much prefer to link each day individually, but
> this task may be too monumental to do (not so much in terms of writing
> and using the appropriate script - but in terms of getting widespread
> agreement)

I think the idea is that you can research a list of anniversaries /
"on this day" by investigating links in "what links here". I suppose
you could have a redirect for every single date in history (that's
730,000 to cover from the New Testament to the present; oh, and that's
assuming you only have one valid form for each date, of course...),
but for one thing you'd max out the what links here display for the
targets (assuming [[4 November 1982]] would redirect to [[4
November]]) without showing a single real page.

And what would you gain exactly? You'd still have to refine the list
into a manually edited page to make it in any way interesting or
useful, and the result would be... well, remarkably similar to what we
have now, I imagine.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


body:
Rowan Collins wrote:

> I think the idea is that you can research a list of anniversaries /
> "on this day" by investigating links in "what links here". I suppose
> you could have a redirect for every single date in history (that's
> 730,000 to cover from the New Testament to the present; oh, and that's
> assuming you only have one valid form for each date, of course...),
> but for one thing you'd max out the what links here display for the
> targets (assuming [[4 November 1982]] would redirect to [[4
> November]]) without showing a single real page.
>
> And what would you gain exactly? You'd still have to refine the list
> into a manually edited page to make it in any way interesting or
> useful, and the result would be... well, remarkably similar to what we
> have now, I imagine.

For recent times, I would not redirect at all. We have enough material
(from current events) to do a single article on each day for the last
three years.

For moderately recent times such as November 4 1982, (or, in my case, 19
October 1978?) there is easily enough material available to write a
single article if you there was motivation for people to do it.

Going back further there are several options, but it might be better for
both [[July 1776]] and [[4 July]] to transclude [[4 July 1776 (data)]]
(possibly transcluding an empty page) and for [[4 July 1776]] to
redirect to one or other of them.

Pete


from_name: Andre Engels

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to get a list of all pages without
	interlanguage	links

body:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:12:25 -0700
  "Vina Wang" <vwang at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>A question came up during a discussion on the Chinese wiki.  There are lots
>of pages on Chinese wiki that does not have interwiki links, that has
>counterparts. However, finding these pages are very difficult.  What's the
>easist way to get a list of all pages that does not have any inter-language
>links?
>
>The proposal were either to run a SQL query of some sort against the
>database, or run the interlanguage bot against the wiki and parse the
>result log.
>
>Which is a better way?  Also, if it is the SQL query, who will be able to
>help me with it?
>
>Thanks in advance.

This used to be available under [[Special:Maintenance]] (well, it gives
pages without links to a given language, but if you choose 'en' as the
language to check, it will not go much wrong.

Knowing that you are a user of the interwiki-bot, I would like to give you a
second good possibility: Run

interwiki.py -start:! -onlyuntranslated

You will get the pages without interwiki links, and be asked to give one or
more hints to a page it should be linked to (like en:Title or
20:General_title).

Andre Engels


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Upload limitations

body:
On Sep 28, 2004, at 9:50 AM, Stephan Walter wrote:
> What about the JPEG bug in Windows/GDI+?
>
> http://www.easynews.com/virus.html

At least there's a *patch* for that. If you're up on your Windows
Updates, IE should not be vulnerable to that AFAIK.

> Is there some test that the image file is valid?

There is, but I'm not sure if it catches this problem; I'll have to
check.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20040928/61af1a35/attachment.pgp>


subject: [Wikitech-l] WikiCommons wishes

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:43:56 +0200 Yann Forget <yann at forget-me.net> wrote:

>> > No. It is necessary that the image from Commons can be forced over an
>> > image with the same name in the local wiki.
>>
>> Any reason that this must be necessary?
>
>I can easily imagine that images in local wikis and Wikicommons have the
>same
>name. I want to be able to choose which one I want to use.
>
>You can't avoid uploading images in Wikicommons with a name which is
>already
>used in a local wiki.
>
>And if there has to be a default, it should be Wikicommons, I think.

I disagree. I think local is the better default, for several reasons:
* It's easier for someone who uploads to a local Wikipedia to check whether
there isn't a conflict than for someone who uploads to WikiCommons
* The number of 'real' conflicts is smaller: If WikiCommons is the default,
there is a problem every time someone uploads a picture with a title already
used on WikiCommons. If local is the default, there is a conflict only if
the WikiCommons picture is used on that specific Wiki.
* When someone has made, for example, a translation of an image, they can
upload it locally under the title of the existing image and be ready
* When uploading an image locally with a title already existing on
WikiCommons, we could automatically upload the Commons picture as an 'old
version', making the existence of conflicts even more clear.

Also, it seems conceptually more logical - just like in object oriented
programming when you define the same method on a parent and a child class,
for the child class the 'local' version is taken rather than the 'global'
(actually, reason #3 here has much the same feel as method overwriting in
OO).

Andre Engels


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Upload limitations

body:
On Sep 28, 2004, at 1:44 PM, Brion Vibber wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2004, at 9:50 AM, Stephan Walter wrote:
>> What about the JPEG bug in Windows/GDI+?
>> http://www.easynews.com/virus.html
>
> At least there's a *patch* for that. If you're up on your Windows
> Updates, IE should not be vulnerable to that AFAIK.
>
>> Is there some test that the image file is valid?
>
> There is, but I'm not sure if it catches this problem; I'll have to
> check.

That particular file ('possibleVirus.jpg') does not pass our validity
test, and is thus not accepted for upload. I haven't (yet) scanned
existing uploads for this particular vulnerability, but the validity
check was up before Easynews's page about the exploit hit slashdot, at
least.

Note that this check is new and not yet in a 1.3 release package. Stock
1.3.3 does not check uploads for validity; I will try to get a 1.3.4
package out soon but am fighting with Internet Explorer's other
stupidities.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20040928/4bd5bd3e/attachment.pgp>


subject:
[Wikipedia-l] na: problems - WikiSquatting (was: Starting
	a new	wiki)

body:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:20:42 -0700 Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
wrote:

>Actually, it appears that is *exactly* what is being done at
>http://na.wikipedia.org/
>
>I have investigated and na.wikipedia as well as na.wiktionary appear
>to be totally fraudulent. I'm not sure what language they *are* in,
>but it sure as hell isn't Nauruan - the dead giveaway is "el welcomi
>gua wikipedia gua nauruoese" - a number of hints in that one sentence:
>1 "welcomi" is *not* a Nauruan word, teh Nauruan word for "welcome" is
>"talofa" 2 The Nauruan language for itself is not "nauruoese" but
>rather "nauri".

na.wiktionary does not really exist, so how can it be fraudulent?

>In addition the names of articles can be used as an example. "Langue"
>is not Nauruan for language, the Nauruan word would be "ekakairu" or
>"edorer". "Nasion" is not Nauruan for nation, the Nauruan word would
>be "ename" or "eponname". "Xiao" is not Nauruan for city, the Nauruan
>word would be "tekawa". Of course since "Suaong" has no interwiki link
>I cannot tell what it's supposed to mean, but suffice to say the word
>does not appear in any Nauruan dictionary.

I have done a look, and haven't been able to recognize the language.

[[Nauru Bwiema]] seems to be real Nauruan, but other parts have indeed
another feel, more like a Romanic language; Spanish seems to be closest, but
I know too little to say that with any certainty. But then "Liao gu Xiao"
sounds more like Chinese (although going from Spanish we could perhaps
etymologize Xiao=Ciudad).

Andre Engels


subject: [Wikitech-l] WikiCommons wishes

body:
Hi,

Le Tuesday 28 September 2004 13:58, Andre Engels a ?crit :
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:43:56 +0200 Yann Forget <yann at forget-me.net> wrote:
> >
> >And if there has to be a default, it should be Wikicommons, I think.
>
> I disagree. I think local is the better default, for several reasons:
> * It's easier for someone who uploads to a local Wikipedia to check whether
> there isn't a conflict than for someone who uploads to WikiCommons
> * The number of 'real' conflicts is smaller: If WikiCommons is the default,
> there is a problem every time someone uploads a picture with a title
> already used on WikiCommons. If local is the default, there is a conflict
> only if the WikiCommons picture is used on that specific Wiki.
> * When someone has made, for example, a translation of an image, they can
> upload it locally under the title of the existing image and be ready
> * When uploading an image locally with a title already existing on
> WikiCommons, we could automatically upload the Commons picture as an 'old
> version', making the existence of conflicts even more clear.

Ok, I understand your arguments.

> Also, it seems conceptually more logical - just like in object oriented
> programming when you define the same method on a parent and a child class,
> for the child class the 'local' version is taken rather than the 'global'
> (actually, reason #3 here has much the same feel as method overwriting in
> OO).

Well, my idea is, if we want to promote Wikicommons, it should be the default.
So this shows that we need to be able to choose from local or Wikicommons,
whatever the default is.

> Andre Engels

Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


list: foundation-l

from_name: Mathias Schindler

subject: [Foundation-l] Quick thoughts on fundraising

body:
Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales wrote:

> If we go back and read my "open letter" for our first ever fundraiser,
> it was a fairly emotional appeal.  (I can't actually find it online
> right now, did it get lost?)

http://taurus.kake.info.waseda.ac.jp/wikip/joyful/joyful.u.cgi?mode=res&no=498

English/Japanese


list: wikimedia-l


body:
Muke Tever wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerardm at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>> It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the
>> references for
>> Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give you
>> all the words in a language.
>
>
> Up to five hundred words.  Not nearly "all".
>
>
>
>     *Muke!

Muke, at this point in time with *4925* words in nl:wiktionary 500 words
is sufficient. When I have finished with the conversion, I will look
into using the output from queries to create content pages for the
languages. This will overcome the still theoretic limit of 500 words.

One question, do you have something positive to say as well, or can you
only repeat yourself? I have heard you say this more than once.

PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did you
find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better
alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I prefer
something positive in stead of something negative.

Thanks,
   GerardM


subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.3.4 released

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

MediaWiki 1.3.4 is a bug fix and security release. File uploads are now
tested for validity which should screen out Internet Explorer file type
autodetection cross-site scripting vulnerabilities and at least the
known instance of the so-called "JPEG virus".

This does not check any existing uploads, and may not catch everything
if you've disabled the strict file type checking. Upgrading is highly
recommended for any wiki allowing public uploads!

(Upgrading from the previous release should be a simple matter of
decompressing the updated files into place, if you have not altered the
originals. There are no database structure changes.)

Changes from 1.3.3:
* Fixed lots of template-related bugs, esp. for cases where template
   variables are used for links, images, etc.
* Fixed transformation of page messages when viewing Special:Allmessages
* Handle "ISBN ISBN 1234" correctly
* Fixed warning on Category pages
* Fixed some bad error messages on login page
* Fixed history entry for initial main page on install
* Removed problematic { and } from legal title characters
* Strip leading blank from output in preformated text.
* Fixed problem when moving pages to titles with '#' in
* Optional $wgRawHtml for raw <html> sections. Use only on limited-
   participation 'trusted' wikis, as it does not protect against
cross-site
   scripting attacks. For security, this option can only be enabled if in
   $wgWhitelistEdit mode.
* Fixed problem where pages which were created as a redirect following
   a move never showed on Special:Randompage.
* Fixed line spacing on printed table of contents
* Allow links to pages with names of the form [[RFC 1234]]
* Fixed broken edit links being shown for sections from included
templates
* Verify that uploaded image files are of the claimed type.

Release notes:
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=271359

Download:
http://prdownloads.sf.net/wikipedia/mediawiki-1.3.4.tar.gz?download

Wiki admin help mailing list:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Bug report system:
http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/

Play "stump the developers" live on IRC:
#mediawiki on irc.freenode.net

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFBWgNXwRnhpk1wk44RAnsfAJ0XpDjxiTud8E1/Tsi8s8Z+dwY+XgCeJYtC
TwrVDJlODia4N+1A01tC2N8=
=Kroa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


list: wikien-l

from_name: Delirium

subject:
[WikiEN-l] [lstruwe@hotmail.com: Wikipedia serious copyright
	infringement...

body:
David Carson wrote:

> The state of the articles after your edits is perfectly fine, but I
> thought the whole point of the "rewrite on a /Temp subpage and delete
> the original" policy was to avoid preserving copyright-violating
> material in article histories?

Cases like this are a tricky issue.  It's okay if the original author
rewrites on a /Temp subpage and the original is deleted.  However,
copying material to a /Temp subpage and deleting the original is
problematic, because now you've lost the attribution history: it looks
like whoever created the /Temp subpage wrote that text, when it was
actually someone else, which is at least technically a violation of the
GFDL.  The tension, of course, is that we'd want to both preserve
history *and* delete copyvios from the history in such cases, which only
developers can do (by deleting specific revisions from the history).

-Mark


from_name: David Carson

body:
daniwo59 at aol.com wrote:

>I looked at the original site. While some of the material was clearly copied,
>and it seems obvious that the site mentioned was used as a source, other
>material there was reworked and we added various wikipedia characteristics,
>including a taxbox, which did not appear in the original article. I therefore
>restored the article, and removed the material that was copied directly.
>
>In general, we are getting an increasing number of complaints about copyright
>violation. While we should always be on guard against this, we should not let
>this tear down material that was created. Information per se cannot be
>copyrighted. Our taxoboxes and other, similar features are uniquely Wikipedian. In
>this case, some of the material was salvagable. It would be a pity to remove
>that.
>
>

While the taxoboxes and the opening paragraphs in those articles were
original, virtually the entirety of the text was verbatim copied from
the site from which we received the complaint. That's why I marked them
with the {{copyvio}} template. I definitely think that the taxoboxes
should be copied to a /Temp subpage and the original pages deleted, they
look to me like clear-cut copyright violations.

The state of the articles after your edits is perfectly fine, but I
thought the whole point of the "rewrite on a /Temp subpage and delete
the original" policy was to avoid preserving copyright-violating
material in article histories?

Cheers!
David...


from_name: Stephan Walter

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Upload limitations

body:
What about the JPEG bug in Windows/GDI+?

http://www.easynews.com/virus.html

Is there some test that the image file is valid?

Regards,
Stephan Walter

Brion Vibber wrote:
> We're tightening up security on the uploads due to exploitable Internet
> Explorer and Safari bugs that allow for scripting attacks to steal
> session and saved password cookies.


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: SVG images

body:
Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
>> Is there any good and freely available command line tool for rendering
>> SVG to PNG?

Inkscape also can export to PNG (yes it's a GUI app but you can use it
via command line)

See the man page: http://inkscape.org/doc/inkscape-man.html

Cheers,
Stephan


from_name: Sabine Cretella

subject: [Wiktionary-l] New language: Neapolitan + when, how, what

body:
Hi, I am still working on those neverending language list :-))

During the last days I received some glossaries Neapolitan-Italian and
Neapolitan-English and so I was asking myself and some other people if
it would be better to integrate Neapolitan in the Italian wiktionary or
create a separate one. Considering that Neapolitan is an own language
with own grammar, literature and is spoken by quite many people (besides
the fact that there is an organisation caring about the language itself)
I feel that an own wiktioary would be appropriate.

Now the related problems are several ones:
1) capitalisation - which seems to be solved :-)
2) since even in this case I'd prefer to create extensive tables with
translations into many languages: import/export possibilities are needed
- so I'd wait for this step to be taken since as far as I understood the
Environmental glossary needs these features as well.
3) Translate the interface into Neapolitan - this is my personal mayor
problem, but the solution is there: I'd say to start the wiktionary with
an Italian interface and after having uploaded quite a huge number of
entries we'll ask for the help of people actually writing in Neapolitan.

So for now out of these lists I create the offline contents in a
relationa database adding translation into as many languages as possible
- of course trying to add more than only the different translations to
the table (like noun, adjective, feminin, masculin etc.). As soon as
there's the possibility to use the database there's no problem to think
about another very particular language.

And now you'd like to know why I am talking about a "very particular
language" ... just for a moment think about which traditional Italian
music you know - I bet that most of the songs are Neapolitan ;-)

Thank you for all your effors and have a great evening!

Ciao, Sabine

--
Sabine Cretella
s.cretella at wordsandmore.it
www.wordsandmore.it
Meetingplace for translators
www.wesolveitnet.com


body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> Muke Tever wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard Meijssen
>>> <gerardm at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is relatively easy to find all words of one language: the
>>>> references for
>>>> Sjabloon:-xx- where xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give
>>>> you
>>>> all the words in a language.
>>>
>>>
>>> Up to five hundred words.  Not nearly "all".
>>>
>>>     *Muke!
>>
>>
>> Muke, at this point in time with *4925* words in nl:wiktionary 500
>> words is sufficient. When I have finished with the conversion, I will
>> look into using the output from queries to create content pages for
>> the languages. This will overcome the still theoretic limit of 500
>> words.
>>
>> One question, do you have something positive to say as well, or can
>> you only repeat yourself? I have heard you say this more than once.
>>
>> PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you tried it ? Did
>> you find any problems on the nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better
>> alternative ? Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I
>> prefer something positive in stead of something negative.
>
>
> en:wiktionary has over 46,000 entries.  I don't know if Muke
> participates on nl, but I assume not.  Your scheme may work very well
> there, and that's fine.  But please don't extrapolate that into an
> excuse for it being a good thing on en, where the support for it is
> far from unanimous.
> Ec
>
Please read the post. I do not say anything about en:wiktionary in the
post that Muke replies to. What I object to is him giving a negative
comment which may make people determine not to give the help that I ask
for. Indeed, Muke does not contribute to nl: He replies with something
that is totally irrelevant to the nl:wiktionary.

This mailing list is, if I am well informed, to discuss things that are
pertinent to wikitonary. That includes the nl:wiktionary.

If I can handle 5000 words on my own, it should be possible to do things
on en: as well. I know that there are more than 9 people contributing on
en:. So if I want to extrapolate the nl: experience to en: than it
should be feasible to do whatever to the en:wiktionary content. I may
even be one of the people helping out when need be on en:wiktionary. I
know for a fact that it will be much harder to convert the English
wiktionary as it is not as structured as the nl:wiktionary is. However,
if you ask me, there is much more that needs to be done to the
en:wiktionary content than just changing the first characters. I
appreciate that this will be a daunting task and, it would be better to
have the change of the first characters be part of a larger overhaul.

When you read the discussion about capitalisation of the first
character, you will read that my major gripe was that the decision on
en: stopped the nl, the fr:, the de: maybe the it: wiktionary from
converting to a more correct system of representing *words*. Something
that is radically different from wikipedia where you represent concepts.
Luckily the change in capitalisation happened before nl:wiktionary
reached 5000 words. It is a shame that it did not happen when I asked
for it, it would have saved me doing a lot of work.

To recap what I asked for in my original post, I expect there to be a
consistency within one language with regard to the nouns that are
languages. I expect them all to be capitalised like in German, English
and Dutch or none of them like Italian and French. Currently there are
languages where things are sometimes capitalised and sometimes not.

Please have a look in the nl:wiktionary, because of the size of the
nl:wiktionary you *can* look up the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where
xx is the ISO 639 code for a language.

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Quick thoughts on fundraising

body:
Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales a ?crit:
> daniwo59 at aol.com wrote:
>
>>I just wanted to add that I like all of Erik's ideas.
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> One thing he didn't focus on is our writing style.  I find that we are
> frequently way too wordy and NPOV in our own marketing efforts.  I'm
> not suggesting that we go overboard with garishness, etc., but we
> should recognize that many or most donations will be "impulse
> purchases" and to inspire that, an emotional connection is best.
>
> If we go back and read my "open letter" for our first ever fundraiser,
> it was a fairly emotional appeal.  (I can't actually find it online
> right now, did it get lost?)
>
> --Jimbo

It's here
Jimbo...http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/Fr

See also http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/Fr-2
(in french)

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/En-2
(in english)

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/Pl-2
(in polish)

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/Zh-2
(in chinese)

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/Ja-2
(in japanese)


body:
Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales a ?crit:
> daniwo59 at aol.com wrote:
>
>>I just wanted to add that I like all of Erik's ideas.
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> One thing he didn't focus on is our writing style.  I find that we are
> frequently way too wordy and NPOV in our own marketing efforts.  I'm
> not suggesting that we go overboard with garishness, etc., but we
> should recognize that many or most donations will be "impulse
> purchases" and to inspire that, an emotional connection is best.
>
> If we go back and read my "open letter" for our first ever fundraiser,
> it was a fairly emotional appeal.  (I can't actually find it online
> right now, did it get lost?)
>
> --Jimbo


body:
I mean your last fairly emotional open letter is here :-)

(still looking for a decent french translation of your introduction,
emotions are hard to translate)

Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales a ?crit:
> daniwo59 at aol.com wrote:
>
>>I just wanted to add that I like all of Erik's ideas.
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> One thing he didn't focus on is our writing style.  I find that we are
> frequently way too wordy and NPOV in our own marketing efforts.  I'm
> not suggesting that we go overboard with garishness, etc., but we
> should recognize that many or most donations will be "impulse
> purchases" and to inspire that, an emotional connection is best.
>
> If we go back and read my "open letter" for our first ever fundraiser,
> it was a fairly emotional appeal.  (I can't actually find it online
> right now, did it get lost?)
>
> --Jimbo


subject: [Wikitech-l] WikiCommons wishes

body:
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:17:18 +0200, Yann Forget <yann at forget-me.net> wrote:
> Well, my idea is, if we want to promote Wikicommons, it should be the default.
> So this shows that we need to be able to choose from local or Wikicommons,
> whatever the default is.

I think the action to encourage would be to re-upload images to
Commons, deleting the originals, and investigating their copyright
status in the process. The choice would come from being able to
override the Commons image with a local version. This way round also
has the advantage that existing uses of images won't break if somebody
from another language uploads a "korea.jpeg" that's not equivalent to
your "korea.jpeg", but can be made to use the shared version as soon
as you confirm that the two *are* equivalent by deleting your local
one.

I can see that there might be a few cases where you really wanted to
say "please by-pass the local version of this file, but don't delete
it", but many of these could be handled by intelligent naming
conventions "korea (translated).jpeg" coupled with a working
"move/rename image" function. This makes for fewer possible
permutations of image location, each of which can be explained to
users:
* is on Commons
* is in local upload area
* local version obscuring Commons version (point this out on Image:
page, encouraging one or other to be renamed if both might be wanted)
but not:
* is available locally, but bypassed to access Commons version
(indicating "this image is available locally on the wiki you just came
from, but has been bypassed" is more-or-less impossible technically)

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Andrew Dunbar

body:
 --- Gerard Meijssen <gerardm at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> Muke Tever wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:43:54 +0200, Gerard
> > Meijssen <gerardm at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It is relatively easy to find all words of one
> >> language: the references for Sjabloon:-xx- where
> >> xx is the ISO 639 code for a language will give
> >> you all the words in a language.
> >
> > Up to five hundred words.  Not nearly "all".
> >
> >     *Muke!
>
> Muke, at this point in time with *4925* words in
> nl:wiktionary 500 words is sufficient. When I have
> finished with the conversion, I will look into using
> the output from queries to create content pages for
> the languages. This will overcome the still
theoretic
> limit of 500 words.
>
> One question, do you have something positive to say
> as well, or can you only repeat yourself? I have
> heard you say this more than once.
>
> PS Did you happen to notice this problem ? Have you
> tried it ? Did you find any problems on the
> nl:wiktionary ? Do you have a better alternative ?
> Please be positive, I put a lot of work in it and I
> prefer something positive in stead of something
> negative.
>
> Thanks,
>    GerardM

Hey guys the best way to do *big* changes like this is
to download the whole database and at least *find* all
the articles which need changing on your own computer
at home. Then you can go back and implement all the
changes online. If you know how you could do a lot of
it with a bot but that's not necessary.

Andrew Dunbar (hippietrail)

=====
http://linguaphile.sf.net/cgi-bin/translator.pl    http://www.abisource.com

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


subject:
[Wikitech-l] The difficulty of collaborative design in
	a	volunteer enviornment

body:
On Sep 29, 2004, at 1:39 AM, Delirium wrote:
> It's a separate issue, but I think a solution to some cases of
> developer motivation would be to have good documentation and modular
> code so people can work on parts that interest them.

That's something we're hoping to improve. :)  Among other things, we're
currently in the process of adding phpdoc comments to the code from
which internal API documentation is generated.

One of the things I've been trying to do as I touch various modules is
to separate the 'work' and 'user interface' components to make things
more modular and improve code reuse. (One tiny example:
Special:Undelete calls into the Special:Log code to pull out and format
log fragments relating to the selected page.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20040929/4ac849f9/attachment.pgp>


from_name: Nicholas Moreau

subject: [Foundation-l] Webbys

body:
Has anyone nominated Wikipedia for this year's Webbys? I didn't know it costed. Not much, but certainly enough, really.

I can see us submitting Wikipedia to:
Community
Best Copy/Writing
Best Navigation/Structure
Best Practices
Also, can we win a second time in the same category?

Nick Moreau
"Zanimum"

---------------------------------
 ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!


subject: [Foundation-l] Webbys


subject: [Wikitech-l] Membership and payment

body:
The Wikimedia board would be willing to make a trial of the developer
payment option upon a task : membership.

We chose this task because it is not specifically a wikipedia (or other
projects) task, but one primarily interesting the foundation.
We also chose it because basically no previous work as been done by
anyone yet on it.
We finally chose this task, because we would like membership to be set
before 2005.

I thought of describing the task... and after reading Tim Starling mail
this morning, I decided not to go very far in details :-)

Roughly, the goal is
* to add to preferences a mention of default joining the foundation when
  creating an account, and adding a link to an opt-out option
* set a form to join as a contributing member. The paiement itself
should be multilingual, include several different amounts, and allow the
person to enter a preference for use of part of the fee. Generate a tax
receipt for us contributors (desactivated for now).
* Find a solution to add as contributing members, editors who paid fees
in a local chapter.
* store all data about the member as "confidential" data (another db or
encryption). Make it available automatically for voting.
* Generate an access and interface of some sort, so that someone can
consult/manage the list of members.

I may forget points of course. Comments welcome :-)

Since we have little idea of how long this would take, I think it is
best that those interested just join the discussion, and after
clarification of the task, declare interest for a certain amount (or for
nothing). Developer committee is welcome to participate and comment as well.

Cheers


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject:
[Wikitech-l] ANNOUNCEMENT: enotif: E-mail notification on page and
 user_talk page changes -- first release available CVS 1.4

body:
Dear members-of-the-list
and especially Hans-Juergen, Nick and Chris and of course Markus:

if you are interested in E-mail notification on page and user_talk page
changes - we call it "enotif" -
please feel kindly invited to visit the first release

- the patch itself at http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=454
- the documentation at http://meta.wikipedia.org/Enotif

Tom and Markus
September 2004


subject:
[Wikitech-l] The difficulty of collaborative design in a	volunteer
	enviornment

body:
Erik Moeller wrote:

>I also believe there's a better solution to the problem of volunteer
>motiviation than the one you suggest, and that is the building of group
>identity from the start. This is what WikiProjects on Wikipedia do, for
>example.
>
>
It's a separate issue, but I think a solution to some cases of developer
motivation would be to have good documentation and modular code so
people can work on parts that interest them.  I know I personally have
had ideas I'd be willing to implement in the past, but my brief digging
led me to the conclusion that I'd basically have to read through and
understand the entire MediaWiki codebase before I could usefully add
anything to it, and at that point I decided that while I was interested,
I wasn't *that* interested.  A bunch of the people proposing various
extensions and whatnot on meta seem to be in the same boat---they could
code up bits and pieces, but don't know how to hook into the larger
codebase.

Of course, this is another "plan with no implementation" --- writing the
documentation and cleaning up the code would require me to read and
understand it all first, which is exactly what I wish to avoid, as I
have other projects I'm supposed to be working on full-time. =]

-Mark


from_name: Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales

subject: [WikiEN-l] error

body:
------

I am not a member of your service.  I was, however, doing some
research and found a rather significant error in one of the entries.
Mark Hofmann, the Mormon counterfeiter and murderer, committed his
bombings on October 15, 1985 not on November 15, 1985.

----- End forwarded message -----

--
"La n??fle est un fruit." - first words of 50,000th article on fr.wikipedia.org


body:
Por que este recurso n?o ? usado para tratar com as diferen?as do tipo
"behaviour" e "behavior" ou "center" and "centre"?

Why this resource is not used to deal with the differences of the type
"behaviour" and "behavior" or "center" and "centre"?

e2m

Em Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:46:37 +0100, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> escreveu:

>> On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 09:35 +0530, shantanu oak wrote:
>
>
>> > But I completely fail to understand why certain words are hyperlinked.
>> > For e.g. in the following para why does the date January 27 is linked?
>> > I clicked on that date and could not find anything related to the
>> > current page i.e. MandrakeSoft.
>
> Two reasons that dates are linked are:
> 1) so you can use "what links here" from the date pages to find
> everything that happened on that date
> 2) so that the date is shown in your preferred format. This can be set
> in your preferences and allows you see [[3 August]] as [[August 3]]
> which prevents people edit warring over date formats. This preference
> isn't available on all Wikipedias, so the rule might be something
> specific to en.
>
> Angela.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


subject: [Wiktionary-l] 5000th article on nl:wiktionary !!

body:
I want to inform you all that the nl:wiktionary has reached its 5000th
article. The word was Italie (French for Italy).

To celebrate it, I have uploaded 100 spoken words to Commons. They are
in the format xx-word.ogg xx for the ISO 639 code, word, is the spoken
word and .ogg because that is the sound format that we use.

Thanks,
    :)  GerardM


from_name: Richard Gould

subject: [WikiEN-l] error

body:
This appears to be correct. A quick five minute search shows a lot of
pages mentioning the bombings on Oct 15. Some mention them on both Oct
15 and 16 though.

Here is the BBC mention I found:
http://www.bbcworld.com/content/template_clickpage.asp?pageid=2341
Under 'The Man Who Forged America'.

I can do the edit later, when I have time, if no one else does it in
the meantime.

Richard

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:02:44 -0700, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales
<jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> ------
>
> I am not a member of your service.  I was, however, doing some
> research and found a rather significant error in one of the entries.
> Mark Hofmann, the Mormon counterfeiter and murderer, committed his
> bombings on October 15, 1985 not on November 15, 1985.
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> "La n?fle est un fruit." - first words of 50,000th article on fr.wikipedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [Wiktionary-l] Italie .... Italian Wiktionary

body:
Good morning!

And congratulations to number 5.000 to Gerard :-) it seems to be some
strange coincidence.

Yesterday before going to bed I noted that it.wiktionary.org does not
seem to have an admin - why I noted this? I was searching for someone to
ask about the capitalisation issue on the Italian wiktionary in order to
avoid double work starting to upload the acutal colour list I have.

Besides that I noted that a user is uploading images and descriptions
that to my opinion should be on wikipedia and not on wiktionary:
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rosso_araldico
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Croce_araldica

As the descritption of the aspects, history, dimensions, proportions
etc. should not appear there, but the term, maybe from which language it
comes from, if its a noun,  verb, adverb etc., as well as the
translations. If an explanation than one like in the Oxford Dictionary.
I already contacted this user and asked him to hold on for a moment as I
wanted to ask how to go ahead on this.

One of his questions was: how to create links from wiktionary to
wikipedia (to articles with the same name and with similar names). Where
can I find the rules for linking or is it just to insert the definite
weblink starting with http://it.wikipedia.org/....?

So who is the one I need to talk to for the Italian admin and if there
isn't one what to do to become one - as things need to be adjusted now
and not somewhere in the future. Imagine a person uploading 1500 terms
including images ... sigh ... and then having to adapt
hundreds/thousands of terms to upper/lowercase ... no, this must be done
now.

Ciao, Sabine

> I want to inform you all that the nl:wiktionary has reached its 5000th
> article. The word was Italie (French for Italy).
>
> To celebrate it, I have uploaded 100 spoken words to Commons. They are
> in the format xx-word.ogg xx for the ISO 639 code, word, is the spoken
> word and .ogg because that is the sound format that we use.
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Quarto

body:
Hi all,

I'd like to say a few words regarding our brand new
newsletter.

For those who missed the fun, many contributors have
been working in the past few weeks on our first global
newsletter.

Please, see
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/En.

This is the english version, but 5 versions are
already finished
* english
* french
* japanese
* polish
* chinese

and several others are near completion and hopefully
will be done in the next few days/weeks :  Ar: De: Es:
Fi: It: and Sv:

The newsletter idea was several times mentionned last
summer on meta. In particular, Angela and I thought it
could be sent to members of the Foundation.
A few weeks ago Jimbo also mentionned he would like to
find a way to better communicate his thoughts and
points of view to the whole community. He pointed out
that his communication was limited by the language
barrier.

I then suggested we do a quarterly letter to inform
people of Jimbo and the board thoughts and activities,
as well as report what has been going on in the global
community.

Improving the communication within the community and
increasing the visibility of the Foundation activity
to contributors, to readers and to donators is very
important. I think this newsletter is one of those
steps in this direction.

We also wished that this first quaterly letter
coincide both with the 1.000.000 Wikipedia articles
announcement and the 1st trimester of activity of
Angela and I. But the problem was very very short
delays !!! And naturally a huge amount of work to
provide. Not only huge, but definitly requiring a lot
of coordination.

I asked Sj if he could be the coordinator of the
newsletter. I was sure he would do a very good job and
I knew he would love it ;-)

I am extremely glad I did ask him, and he accepted,
because I think Sj made a wonderful job and I would
really like to issue a special thank you note to him
for making this dream come true. I think he has been
devoting many hours on it, with optimism and cheerful
mood. A hand of iron in velvet gloves. I hope he is
very proud because he should be :-)

This newsletter has been set up in an incredible short
time (resulting in a few overlappings between writing
and translating, sorry about that).
Its great design was made by Villy, who probably also
dedicated a month wikipedia-time on it. Dozens of
different people have been contributing to its
content; dozen of editors from many different
languages have been contributing to its translation.
We had a very nice and interesting interview from
Ward. Many editors also helped proofreading, typo
correcting, frame fixing etc... May they all be
thanked.

5 versions are currently final, and have been
transferred to the wikimediafoundation website and
will be advertised on the local projects.
There is still some work on them to do. More editors
are still working on the other versions and I guess we
will end up withabout 10 fully translated versions
which is really great. Next steps will be to have all
of them adequately set on the foundation website, made
visible on projects, and slowly to work on a pdf or
print version.

In all cases, I hope all those who worked on it had
pleasure to do so, and feel proud of the result. I
really thank all of you; it gave me a very warm
feeling to see we could so well and so quickly build
up such a common project (of course, I should not feel
surprised by this, but... still... even after nearly 3
years on wikipedia, I am still regularly amazed :-)).
I think it was an important thing to do, and among
other reasons, I think it was a great way to have
editors from many languages working together on a
common global project. I also hope it will help
smaller projects to feel more involved and drain more
people to get interested in meta activities.

There are some flaws in the letter naturally, I hope
readers will forgive us. There will be some feedback
both on the letter or on its editorial organisation,
or on the content itself to provide. Please do not
hesitate to give us your feedback. Perhaps on
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto#Feedback,
so we can have an even better letter in 3 months.

Anthere

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Quarto


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP

body:
--- Andrew Lih <andrew.lih at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll be talking to the BBC tomorrow about Wikipedia, and they're also
> interested in stories about Wikipedia outside of US/Europe.
>
> Of the top 20 languages, only Chinese and Japanese are non-European.
> However, if anyone can point me to some interesting stories regarding
> users in developing countries or how Wikipedia is used in unusual
> ways,  please let me know.

Uh - what about the majority of English and Spanish speakers who live outside
of Europe? :)

-- mav

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com


subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP


subject: [WikiEN-l] error

body:
--- Richard Gould <rwgould at gmail.com> wrote:
> This appears to be correct. A quick five minute search shows a lot of
> pages mentioning the bombings on Oct 15. Some mention them on both Oct
> 15 and 16 though.
>
> Here is the BBC mention I found:
> http://www.bbcworld.com/content/template_clickpage.asp?pageid=2341
> Under 'The Man Who Forged America'.

It looks like somebody fixed it.

Sidenote:
This type of error (being exactly a month off) is *very* common in almost all
'this day in history' type websites I've seen. My only explanation for this is
that these websites must copy each others information using sloppy rewrites,
which introduces errors that propagate and get worse with time - like a big
game of telephone.

In fact, most web references I used to update day pages had to be checked very
closely (including CNN and the History Channel!) and I usually ended up
throwing out a fifth to a third of the entries in each reference due to some
type of error, me not being able to confirm a fact, or due to the entry being
trivial. This type of checking for *existing* entries in our day pages is now
rather difficult due to the fact that so many websites copy us (trying to
exclude all websites with the word "Wikipedia" in them does not help much since
so many have our reference info in a no-index part of their pages).

-- mav

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikitech-l] Wikidown message - again

body:
For the third time, this message:

:Due to the ever-increasing number of people visiting Wikipedia and its sister
Wikimedia projects, we have a constant need to buy new hardware to keep the
site running. If you'd like to help, please
[http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/fundraising donate].

is ''completely'' useless when the database server is down since the
[http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/fundraising donate] link brings up the
same damn message. ''Please'' create a static copy of the old fundraising page
and link to that from a failsafe server.

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Rick

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wkipedia slowness

body:
Last night, Wikipedia was so slow (at least 5 minutes from the time I hit SAVE until the article was actually saved, lucky if I didn't get an ERROR message) that I eventually gave up.  And now today it seems to be in the same unuseable mode.

What's going on, and will it be fixed soon?

RickK

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!


from_name: Mark Richards

subject: [WikiEN-l] A plea - live and let live

body:
Deletion seems to have stepped up a gear recently,
with over 70 new listings just today. Is it just me,
or is this spiralling out of control? Most of these
are verifiable things that folks don't think are
'notable'.

It seems to me that if there are even a few people who
might find an article on something esoteric useful,
then we should keep it, provided that we can write a
neutral, factual, verifiable article on it.

Whether it is 'notable' will be entirely a matter of
opinion. What is notable to a computer programmer may
not be for a botanist, and for a local historian a
hill or burial mound could be fascinating.

While I recognise that we don't want articles on
someone's coffee cup, and don't want lots of replies
saying 'well, I'll write an article on the cheese
under my toenails', these are real world things.
Please think twice before deleting something just
because 'only a few people will ever be interested'.

Mark

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Frankfurt Book Fair 2004 / Frankfurter Buchmesse

body:
Hi,

Vom 6. bis 10. Oktober 2004 ist in Frankfurt die Buchmesse.

Will anyone of you go to the Frankfurt book fair?

I'll attend to that event anyway and I would love to see as many of you
as possible.

W?re das nicht eine gute Gelegenheit f?r ein WikipedianerInnentreffen
dort an einem Tag oder Abend?

Herzliche Gr??e,
Mathias, Frankfurter. :)


from_name: cookfire

body:
Sabine Cretella schreef:

> Good morning!
>
> And congratulations to number 5.000 to Gerard :-) it seems to be some
> strange coincidence.
>
> Yesterday before going to bed I noted that it.wiktionary.org does not
> seem to have an admin - why I noted this? I was searching for someone
> to ask about the capitalisation issue on the Italian wiktionary in
> order to avoid double work starting to upload the acutal colour list I
> have.
>
> Besides that I noted that a user is uploading images and descriptions
> that to my opinion should be on wikipedia and not on wiktionary:
> http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Rosso_araldico
> http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Croce_araldica
>
> As the descritption of the aspects, history, dimensions, proportions
> etc. should not appear there, but the term, maybe from which language
> it comes from, if its a noun,  verb, adverb etc., as well as the
> translations. If an explanation than one like in the Oxford
> Dictionary. I already contacted this user and asked him to hold on for
> a moment as I wanted to ask how to go ahead on this.
>
> One of his questions was: how to create links from wiktionary to
> wikipedia (to articles with the same name and with similar names).
> Where can I find the rules for linking or is it just to insert the
> definite weblink starting with http://it.wikipedia.org/....?
>
> So who is the one I need to talk to for the Italian admin and if there
> isn't one what to do to become one - as things need to be adjusted now
> and not somewhere in the future. Imagine a person uploading 1500 terms
> including images ... sigh ... and then having to adapt
> hundreds/thousands of terms to upper/lowercase ... no, this must be
> done now.
>
> Ciao, Sabine

Ciao Sabine,

What you need to do to become an admin is to start an election. If there
is enough people who agree you would make a good admin, you can ask
Andr? Engels to make you one. It wouldn't be a bad idea to nominate
several of the more active people and have something like three or five
people administering a Wiktionary. If you manage to determine a good
person to take on the task of burocrat during the same elections, then
you don't have to bother Andre any more afterwards.

Jo


from_name: Sj

subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP

body:
They should of course contact Wizzy Digital.

http://www.wizzy.org.za/

Andy Rabagliati probably has the best stories; I think he is
the one who realized Wikipedia would make a good component
for their CD, and who handles retreiving the latest snapshot
(he's posted about this on the wikitech list over the summer):

  andyr at wizzy.com
  RSA Tel: +27.82.681.4887

If you can't reach him, there is also a US business contact listed
on their site:
  Larry Wood, +1.570.746.3408

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:01:15 +0800, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll be talking to the BBC tomorrow about Wikipedia, and they're also
> interested in stories about Wikipedia outside of US/Europe.
>
> Of the top 20 languages, only Chinese and Japanese are non-European.

There's always the middle east... though that may not be far enough
from Europe for their tastes.


subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP


subject: [WikiEN-l] The Hindustan Times

body:
"Wikipedia is next big thing"

http://www.htnext.com/news/5922_1031250,001500230000.htm

Great, maybe now WP will start filling its huge gaps in hi: and in
coverage of Indian culture...

+sj+


body:
>>
>> So who is the one I need to talk to for the Italian admin and if
>> there isn't one what to do to become one - as things need to be
>> adjusted now and not somewhere in the future. Imagine a person
>> uploading 1500 terms including images ... sigh ... and then having to
>> adapt hundreds/thousands of terms to upper/lowercase ... no, this
>> must be done now.
>>
>
> What you need to do to become an admin is to start an election. If
> there is enough people who agree you would make a good admin, you can
> ask Andr? Engels to make you one. It wouldn't be a bad idea to
> nominate several of the more active people and have something like
> three or five people administering a Wiktionary. If you manage to
> determine a good person to take on the task of burocrat during the
> same elections, then you don't have to bother Andre any more afterwards.
>
>
Hi Jo,

this means I should try to contact the people contributing to the
Italian wiktionary and maybe also ask who of them would also like to
take over an admin job. Where does this election then take place? On the
wiktionary itself? Maybe on the admin page? Is there any example around?
How can I determine who are the people who contributed most to the
wiktionary - is there some kind of list? Sorry for so many questions.

Ciao, Sabine


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Nauruose

body:
Some time ago I wrote to this list that the local word for Nauruan
should be Nauruose, the source I quoted was the Nauruan wikipedia.
Consequently it was changed  for use with interwikis. However, it has
transpired that the Nauruan wikipedia has been squated. Nobody knows
what language the content is in. I am afraid that Nauruose is propably
wrong.

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Rowan Collins

body:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:27:26 -0300, e2m <e2m at ig.com.br> wrote:
> Por que este recurso n?o ? usado para tratar com as diferen?as do tipo
> "behaviour" e "behavior" ou "center" and "centre"?
>
> Why this resource is not used to deal with the differences of the type
> "behaviour" and "behavior" or "center" and "centre"?

Because:
a) it would require linking every instance of those words (if we were
to use *exactly* the same mechanism); which would be ugly.
b) nobody seems to mind that much, and the general consensus is just
to leave the variant spellings in place, or pick one version or the
other for a specific article (UK spelling on UK articles, etc)
c) nobody thought of applying this particular bit of the software to
that before and/or nobody thought of this bit of the software as a
particularly generic tool before

However:
If you look at some of the discussion, here and on wikitech-l, about
the zh-tw / zh-cn issue, you will see that there is a forthcoming
software feature which includes syntax for entering two variants of a
word into an article (" {-zh-tw some word zh-cn other word-} " IIRC).
Suggestions to apply this to other languages (e.g. en-us / en-gb) have
been made, but people still aren't convinced this particular one needs
a technical solution.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikipedians by country - was Stories of WP

body:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:38:53 +0200, Erik Zachte <e.p.zachte at chello.nl> wrote:
> A suggestion: we might add a drop down box to the user preferences screen
> where a user can >>optionally<< select his/her country of residence.
> I would really like to add info about this to the stats pages. But better
> wait till we have a single signon, so that each user is counted only once.

And all kinds of other optional details. City would also be useful,
for instance.  Some users are averse to sharing any personal
information about themselves; but others are happy to share a great
deal of it.  And some information, like the email address, can be
hidden from other users by default.

+sj+


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Excellent work on newsletter

body:
Merci Erik.

Erik Moeller a ?crit:
> I'd just like to say that the first Wikimedia Quarto newsletter is very
> nicely done:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Quarto/0409/En-1
>
> The use of images is just a little bit too random for my taste, but the
> content and organization are excellent. Kudos to everyone involved.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP

body:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:26:54 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Mayer
<maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Andrew Lih <andrew.lih at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'll be talking to the BBC tomorrow about Wikipedia, and they're also
> > interested in stories about Wikipedia outside of US/Europe.
> >
> > Of the top 20 languages, only Chinese and Japanese are non-European.
> > However, if anyone can point me to some interesting stories regarding
> > users in developing countries or how Wikipedia is used in unusual
> > ways,  please let me know.
>
> Uh - what about the majority of English and Spanish speakers who live outside
> of Europe? :)

Well, he did say "outside of US/Europe", which must put a pretty big
dent in English. And both English and Spanish, are technically
speaking, European languages, so his second paragraph is probably
technically accurate, from a pedantic point of view. But especially
with Spanish, you do have a point: I wonder how many South American
contributors we have there (and what of Brazillian Portugese?)...

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP


from_name: Matthew Larsen

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wkipedia slowness

body:
I thought it was also slow sometimes, when accessing articles it took
an age (and I looked like a total prick cos I was showing it to mates)

Is there just lots of traffic recently?

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Rick <giantsrick13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Last night, Wikipedia was so slow (at least 5 minutes from the time I hit SAVE until the article was actually saved, lucky if I didn't get an ERROR message) that I eventually gave up.  And now today it seems to be in the same unuseable mode.
>
> What's going on, and will it be fixed soon?
>
> RickK
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Matthew Larsen
   > mat.larsen at gmail.com
   > 07739 785 249


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Editorial purposes only" images

body:
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:58:36 -0700, Matt Brown <morven at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some sources of photographs are available under "editorial purposes
> only" licenses, often with an explicit "Not for use in advertising."
> An example is photographs from the United Nations.
>
> We have decided that "noncommercial-only" images are not acceptable,
> but I don't see anywhere that a decision has been made about this
> category.  Editorial-only images are usable by commercial users as
> well as noncommercial in an encyclopedia context, so their use would
> not prohibit commercial redistribution of Wikipedia.  On the other
> hand, it's a less free license than many we use.

And, crucially, a less free licence than the one our content is
distributed under; IANAL, but I think technically this gives us two
options: restrict our distribution licence along similar lines; or,
exclude these images. Or of course both: give the reuser the choice
between our freer licence (which we have to offer most of the text of
Wikipedia under anyway, else we break our contributors' copyright) and
a more restricted version with the extra images.

Unlike with noncommercial-only images, a lot of us might not mind
incorporating some of these extra restrictions anyway, but since to
comply with our existing licencing obligations it would mean offering
two copies of the database, I think anything that cannot be
distributed under the GFDL should be avoided.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wkipedia slowness

body:
:) okey dokey

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:04:57 +0200, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes it was planned.
>
> I presume it was announced on en:pump, for JamesDay took the time to
> warn fr.
>
> Yes several people are currently working on it.
> Just on irc, I notice Jimbo, Jamesday, jeronimo and others.
>
> Do not worry :-)
>
> Rick a ?crit:
>
>
> > Last night, Wikipedia was so slow (at least 5 minutes from the time I hit SAVE until the article was actually saved, lucky if I didn't get an ERROR message) that I eventually gave up.  And now today it seems to be in the same unuseable mode.
> >
> > What's going on, and will it be fixed soon?
> >
> > RickK
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Matthew Larsen
   > mat.larsen at gmail.com
   > 07739 785 249


from_name: Craig Franklin

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Nauruan Wikipedia

body:
Well spotted.

Whatever that language is, it looks vaguely Iberian.  Xerox's language
guesser program seems to think that it's Catalan, although that program does
have a fairly limited range (and Catalan has diacratical marks, which this
mystery language does not).  I've tried plugging a few of those words into
Google in an effort to come up with an explanation as to what it is, and
I've had no luck - most of the words are culled from various Romance
languages, or English.

There seems to be only one person active on this Wiki anyway, who goes by
the name "Belgian Man".  Based on the similarity of "nauruose" to "nauri", I
suspect this isn't a simple case of mistaken identity - whoever has written
these articles has probably done it with the intent to deceive (although why
you'd actually attempt to masquerade your language as nauri is beyond me).

Regards,
- Craig Franklin

-------------------
Craig Franklin
PO Box 764
Ashgrove, Q, 4060
Australia
http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art,
and Culture


subject: [WikiEN-l] The Hindustan Times

body:
dont be so cynical! :-) If the articles quoted on this news list were
always so one-sided it would mean that the journalist isnt doing their
job properly. Its a bit like those articles you get which are entirely
Pro American and dont even bother mentioning another side.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:43:17 -0400, Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> "Wikipedia is next big thing"
>
> http://www.htnext.com/news/5922_1031250,001500230000.htm
>
> Great, maybe now WP will start filling its huge gaps in hi: and in
> coverage of Indian culture...
>
> +sj+
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Matthew Larsen
   > mat.larsen at gmail.com
   > 07739 785 249


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wkipedia slowness

body:
Yes it was planned.

I presume it was announced on en:pump, for JamesDay took the time to
warn fr.

Yes several people are currently working on it.
Just on irc, I notice Jimbo, Jamesday, jeronimo and others.

Do not worry :-)

Rick a ?crit:
> Last night, Wikipedia was so slow (at least 5 minutes from the time I hit SAVE until the article was actually saved, lucky if I didn't get an ERROR message) that I eventually gave up.  And now today it seems to be in the same unuseable mode.
>
> What's going on, and will it be fixed soon?
>
> RickK
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!


from_name: Erik Zachte

body:
It would be interesting indeed to see where Wikipedians live, especially for
English, Spanish, ... Wikipedias where we really have no clue where the
contributors come from.

A suggestion: we might add a drop down box to the user preferences screen
where a user can >>optionally<< select his/her country of residence.
I would really like to add info about this to the stats pages. But better
wait till we have a single signon, so that each user is counted only once.

Erik Zachte


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: UI language switching

body:
zhengzhu wrote:
> The basic functionality of switching the UI language is in CVS HEAD. I
> see test.wp is already running it, so please take a look.

Hello,

I would like to thanks you for your work on this. Specially splitting
the contentlang and the sitelang :o)

--
Ashar Voultoiz


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Test my lex/yacc parser!

references:
<cigum2$i19$1@sea.gmane.org>	<9f02ca4c04091910144fb9fc68@mail.gmail.com>	<cil3do$mpb$1@sea.gmane.org>	<9f02ca4c04092005563f022703@mail.gmail.com>	<cimtnk$o3c$1@sea.gmane.org>	<9f02ca4c04092310162250f65a@mail.gmail.com>	<civ3io$4ph$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<9f02ca4c0409231636191ed0ca@mail.gmail.com>

body:
Sorry for the late reply.

Rowan Collins wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:09:21 +0100, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
>
>>Not really. We can still recognise redirects with a regexp (or anything
>>else in PHP) before passing the page to the parser.
>
> But why make that a special case? Why say "before using the nice
> eficient real parser, use a not-a-parser to check for the #REDIRECT
> directive, and have it do some voodoo" Far better to just have the
> parser recognise "#REDIRECT" (and any variants anyone wants) and
> output a parse tree with a special redirect node.

Why is that "better"? I prefer my suggestion because:
* it might be more efficient because it means that we don't have to
   invoke the external parser just to find out whether what the user just
   submitted is a redirect or not
* it means the parser needn't be programmed to recognise redirects
   (makes the code simpler)
* it means we can assume that parse trees will be articles. Otherwise
   all output code would have to consider this special case. How should a
   class that is supposed to output LaTeX code react when you give it a
   redirect?

>>First of all, even in the current system there is no way for server
>>admins to customise the magic words without modifying actual source
>>code.
>
> Well, technically, no, but Language*.php and LocalSettings.php are
> more like configuration files that happen to be executable for
> convenience. Editing the declaration of $wgMagicWordsEn in
> Language.php is no more difficult or involved than, say, editing a
> .ini file.

True. As I said, we can make it work quite the same way using #defines,
except of course that the module would need to be recompiled.

> Actually, I have to admit I had no idea how difficult it would be, but
> I assumed it would mean having at least a compiler, if not a
> compiler-compiler and a whole load of other tools. Editing PHP doesn't
> need that kind of thing, and the way its designed now, you needn't
> notice your editing code.

That is also true. But I really don't see why it's so hard to have a
compiler?

> If it were possible to only require a c compiler, it would certainly
> be a favour to other admins running MediaWiki. It's going to be
> annoying enough for some of them to have to deal with a binary part as
> well as PHP.

As I mentioned before, it is *not* necessary for anyone to "deal with"
anything. People can continue to use the old not-a-parser if they want!

>>I think, considering all of these problems we have discussed, it makes a
>>real lot of sense to formulate a "rule" that the design of the parser
>>should fulfill: The parser must know in advance how to parse everything.
>>The resulting parse tree must not depend on anything other than the
>>input wiki text.
>
> Yep, I think you're probably right on that one. And as you say, the
> more things that can e done inside the parser, the better, since
> outside means PHP, and is likely to be less efficient.

I had an alternative idea. Currently I'm passing the wiki text as a
string parameter to the function that does the actual parsing. I could
have it accept a second parameter, a language code, which would
influence the magic words.

Just an idea.

Timwi


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Upload limitations

body:
Stephan Walter wrote:
> What about the JPEG bug in Windows/GDI+?
>
> http://www.easynews.com/virus.html
<snip>

Tip: use an updated browser:
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

--
Ashar Voultoiz


references:
<cigum2$i19$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<9f02ca4c04091910144fb9fc68@mail.gmail.com>
	<cil3do$mpb$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<9f02ca4c04092005563f022703@mail.gmail.com>
	<cimtnk$o3c$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<9f02ca4c04092310162250f65a@mail.gmail.com>
	<civ3io$4ph$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<9f02ca4c0409231636191ed0ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<cjf6cc$s39$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:36:36 +0200, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
> Sorry for the late reply.

No probs: it's about 3 months quicker than my replies to messages from
friends seem to end up being... :-/

> >>Not really. We can still recognise redirects with a regexp (or anything
> >>else in PHP) before passing the page to the parser.
> >
> > But why make that a special case? Why say "before using the nice
> > eficient real parser, use a not-a-parser to check for the #REDIRECT
> > directive, and have it do some voodoo" Far better to just have the
> > parser recognise "#REDIRECT" (and any variants anyone wants) and
> > output a parse tree with a special redirect node.
>
> Why is that "better"? I prefer my suggestion because:

Well, why is the new parser in general better? Because it separates
out parsing into a proper parser rather than mingling at as
special-case checks everywhere, and thus makes the software easier to
maintain. This is parsing too, so lets put it in the parser, not in
special-case checks everywhere.

> * it might be more efficient because it means that we don't have to
>    invoke the external parser just to find out whether what the user just
>    submitted is a redirect or not

We wouldn't invoke the parser *just* to do that. We'll still need a
parse-on-save for things like updating link tables; if it comes back
saying "this is a redirect", we use that information to set the
is_redirect flag.

> * it means the parser needn't be programmed to recognise redirects
>    (makes the code simpler)

OTOH, the code *outside* the parser will have to, and more: if you
want to avoid putting redirects through the parser at all, that code
has to do the following:
1] spot that the page is a redirect
2] determine what it is a redirect to
3] find all the article's entries in the links tables (links,
brokenlinks, categorylinks) and delete all those except the target of
the redirect.
1 has to be done one way or another anyway; 2 and 3 would be natural
side-effects of parsing *any* page before save (unless I've completely
misunderstood the current code structure, or you have some magic way
of avoiding this), so why duplicate them in special case code just for
redirects?

> * it means we can assume that parse trees will be articles. Otherwise
>    all output code would have to consider this special case. How should a
>    class that is supposed to output LaTeX code react when you give it a
>    redirect?

No, all output code will need a way of rendering a <redirect> element
- that's no more a special case than any other element. If you had an
output system that was guaranteed *never* to deal with an
"&redirect=no" request, you could simply leave this output undefined;
otherwise, the parser and output will have to do *something* with the
result, and I've always hated the 'misinterpret it as a numbered list'
approach.

I imagine an outputter to something static like LaTeX would want to either:
* always follow redirects to their destination (so it won't see any
actual redirect pages anyway; except for double-redirects, but they're
broken anyway); note that this has nothing to do with the parser
whatsoever, since it is a navigation issue, and shouldn't require
access to the page's content at all (currently, the page's text *is*
accessed, somewhere in Title.php I believe, but it needn't be)
or:
* render redirects as cross-references [e.g. "Such and such: See So
and so"] (in which case having the parser output some explanation that
this is a redirect would be very helpful indeed).

> > Actually, I have to admit I had no idea how difficult it would be, but
> > I assumed it would mean having at least a compiler, if not a
> > compiler-compiler and a whole load of other tools. Editing PHP doesn't
> > need that kind of thing, and the way its designed now, you needn't
> > notice your editing code.
>
> That is also true. But I really don't see why it's so hard to have a
> compiler?

No, it's not very hard; it's just harder than not needing one.
Remember that most web-hosting is accessed by FTP, not SSH; any
compilation has to happen on a different system, usually a home PC;
with any luck, things will end up binary compatible with the server.
So: plain-text options: great; needs-a-c-compiler options: slightly
awkward, but perhaps a necessary evil; needs-a-compiler-compiler
options: you're no longer an administrator, you're a developer.

> > If it were possible to only require a c compiler, it would certainly
> > be a favour to other admins running MediaWiki. It's going to be
> > annoying enough for some of them to have to deal with a binary part as
> > well as PHP.
>
> As I mentioned before, it is *not* necessary for anyone to "deal with"
> anything. People can continue to use the old not-a-parser if they want!

For how long? As new features come along, what are the chances that
they will be back-ported to the not-a-parser? How many versions will
be released before the not-a-parser is completely incompatible with
large parts of the codebase? I'm not saying this whole thing is a bad
idea - I think it's extremely sensible - just that we do need to
minimise the hassle for other MediaWiki admins who want to use the
latest version, but don't want to play the role of developer.

BTW, did anyone ever find a compiler-compiler that could output PHP?

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] File upload borked

body:
On Sep 29, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Chong Yidong wrote:
> On the English Wikipedia, I have been trying to upload the latest
> version of wikipedia-mode.el, an Emacs lisp mode for editing wikipedia
> articles. After submitting the file, I end up at a page that says
> "Warning: .el is not a recommended file format". There used to be two
> buttons underneath this, labelled "Upload anyway" and "Cancel", but
> these have disappeared, which means I'm no longer able to proceed.

Please see:

On Sep 23, 2004, at 1:09 PM, Brion Vibber wrote:
> We're tightening up security on the uploads due to exploitable
> Internet Explorer and Safari bugs that allow for scripting attacks to
> steal session and saved password cookies.
>
> For the moment uploads are limited to the default extension whitelist:
> 'png', 'gif', 'jpg', 'jpeg', 'ogg'. Other types of files can't be
> uploaded to the wikis until we expand it again, but files already
> uploaded remain accessible.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: PGP.sig
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/attachments/20040929/4273ffcc/attachment.pgp>


from_name: Hunter Peress

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Patch for template backlinks AKA easy template
	editing/viewing

body:
My idea: http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607 was denied
because its similar to a fix thats in 1.4 CVS:
http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143

This 143 fix is not sufficient because it makes links to templates
available from the editing screen. My proposal is for a backlink (to
the template itself or its edit page)  to be rendered in directly in a
standard article (not only on its edit page).

I write this argument to the list now because if we have a link in the
actual page for editing sections, then we should surely have a link
helping us quickly get back to a template.


from_name: Andrew Lih

subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP

body:
I'll be talking to the BBC tomorrow about Wikipedia, and they're also
interested in stories about Wikipedia outside of US/Europe.

Of the top 20 languages, only Chinese and Japanese are non-European.
However, if anyone can point me to some interesting stories regarding
users in developing countries or how Wikipedia is used in unusual
ways,  please let me know.

Thanks!

--
Andrew (User:Fuzheado)


subject: [Foundation-l] Stories of WP


from_name: Stephan Walter

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Upload limitations

body:
Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> Tip: use an updated browser:
> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

I do use firefox. It's just that I feel sorry for those who dont' ;-)

Stephan


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wkipedia slowness

body:
I see nothing on the Village Pump announcing any downtime or slowness.

RickK

Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes it was planned.

I presume it was announced on en:pump, for JamesDay took the time to
warn fr.

Yes several people are currently working on it.
Just on irc, I notice Jimbo, Jamesday, jeronimo and others.

Do not worry :-)

Rick a ?crit:
> Last night, Wikipedia was so slow (at least 5 minutes from the time I hit SAVE until the article was actually saved, lucky if I didn't get an ERROR message) that I eventually gave up. And now today it seems to be in the same unuseable mode.
>
> What's going on, and will it be fixed soon?
>
> RickK
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!


body:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:53:09 -0400, Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:38:53 +0200, Erik Zachte <e.p.zachte at chello.nl> wrote:
> > A suggestion: we might add a drop down box to the user preferences screen
> > where a user can >>optionally<< select his/her country of residence.
> > I would really like to add info about this to the stats pages. But better
> > wait till we have a single signon, so that each user is counted only once.
>
> And all kinds of other optional details. City would also be useful,
> for instance.  Some users are averse to sharing any personal
> information about themselves; but others are happy to share a great
> deal of it.  And some information, like the email address, can be
> hidden from other users by default.

My only comment is that this should *only* be on a preferences page,
and we should resist temptation to ask *anything* when setting up a
new account. I think the ability to say "Yes, enter a username and
password, and that really is it, no more questions" is a real selling
point for people to set up accounts. Which, of course, makes them
easier to relate to as users, and more likely to get hooked! ;)

Oh, and of course we'd have to promise not to use it for spam, even
User_talk: spam (if you see what I mean).

Otherwise, nice idea. Would create a database version of all those
endless pages on meta: and in the Wikipedia: namespace covering this
kind of thing.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Wikitech-l] soundfiles and stuff

body:
Hoi,
To celebrate the 5000th word of nl:wiktionary, I have uploaded 100 .ogg
files to Commons. These are Dutch words pronounced by me. While doing
this excercise, I have written a blurp about sound and how to handle it
on Wikimedia. The piece is still in Dutch, it is still in nl:wiktionary,
but I have asked the nl:wikipedia crowd to review it. When this is done,
I will translate it in English and post it in Meta ? en:Wikipedia ?
Please let me know..

One thing that is non obvious is that a sound file is supposed to be an
image; the name for a *sound* file is: "Image:Title.ogg". Can this be
changed to be Sound or something ??

I have read the posts about Firefox and the problems that we have
supporting Internet Explorer. Would it be an idea to suggest that
Wikimedia is best experienced with Firefox / Opera / .. I am myself a
fan of Firefox, it really increases my productivity using two screens
with 9 tabs on average. That is what the Firefox experience is for me :)
Seriously though, when we do not allow MP3, would it not make equally
good sense to suggest that our content is best experienced not using IE
?? Needless to say, we would continue the support for IE !!

It only needs to be a small statement on our main page or on our user
portal ...

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia and sustainable development

body:
Hello,

Wikipedia has been invited to participate to a french meeting about the use of Internet technologies in sustainable development, which will take place in february 2005, www.tic21.com. I am not sure it will be possible that we indeed participate to the meeting itself, for it is *expensive*. However, external financial support might be an option (sponsorship).

In any cases, the meeting has been advertised in several ways, among which a first newsletter sent in spring 2004.
The first newsletter may be visible here : http://www.tic21.com/intro.php?Page=lettreTIC21.htm

A second newsletter will be send to all participants soon.  This newsletter will include a collection of texts written by several implicated actors, such as french administration, french academics, France Telecom, Unesco, Fing, Agora21, local committee 21 etc...
I have been asked to participate to it for Wikipedia.
The organiser of the meeting suggested that I explained how the website www.planetecologie.com and Wikipedia could collaborate together (an idea on which we have been working before summer), and how and if collective intelligence could possibly be useful within sustainable development.

Hmmmm.
I can obviously stay at the level of short description of Wikipedia, plus add a nice paragraph of fluttery thoughts on how giving free access to information to the largest number of people is indeed a participation to sustainable developement TO MY OPINION... supporting social integration, helping making informed decisions, favoring cultural understanding hence peace, participating democracy, blablabla

However, I would love being *much* more practical, and give REAL examples of our work :

I have distinguished 3 potential directions of interest,
* my pet topic, the ecoregions project
* the brand new wikispecies and the tree of life
* the Gemet

I need help on the last two.
I would love it if I could have a short resume of the current state of wikispecies and tree of life current state of development, and hopes of the editors participating to it. Who would be available to discuss this with me ? on irc or by mail.
Second, I just could not find back the mails sent to the ml (which ml ?) about the Gemet and its integration in wiktionary. I have just no idea what the state of this project is (except that I see it is mentioned on the Gemet page itself...). Again, I would love to know more about this.

I think that mentionning REAL projects, citing facts, pointing out to work already done, will speak more than a thousand words. And I believe it could have much impact on how our implication is seen by some big organisations.

Who can help me ?

Anthere

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!