subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.4.3 released

body:
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Hash: SHA1

MediaWiki 1.4.3 is a bugfix release for the 1.4 stable release series.

Chiefly, this fixes a compatibility problem with PHP 5 and a minor link
table corruption bug on initial page save.

== Changes from 1.4.2 ==

* (bug 1636) Refs like ţ were misinterpreted as octal in some
~  places
* (bug 1163) Special:Undelete showed oldest revision instead of newest
* (bug 1938) Fix escaping of illegal character references in link text
* (bug 1997) Fix for error on display of renamed items in Recentchanges
~  on PHP5
* (bug 1949) Profiling typo in rare error case
* (bug 1963) Fix deletion log link when $wgCapitalLinks is off
* (bug 1970) Don't show move tab for immobile pages
* (bug 1770) Page creation recorded links from the 'newarticletext'
~  message
* Optional change to the site_stats table. When applied, this removes
~  the need for expensive queries in Special:Statistics.

Release notes:
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=323971

Download:
http://prdownloads.sf.net/wikipedia/mediawiki-1.4.3.tar.gz?download

Before asking for help, try the FAQ:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ

Low-traffic release announcements mailing list:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce

Wiki admin help mailing list:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Bug report system:
http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/

Play "stump the developers" live on IRC:
#mediawiki on irc.freenode.net

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] It is a sign.

body:
MacGyverMagic/Mgm (macgyvermagic at gmail.com) [050428 22:31]:
> On 4/28/05, James D. Forrester <james at jdforrester.org> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:36 AM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Actively controlling the list membership is something to be avoided
> > > except in egregious cases (e.g. when someone abusive keeps rejoining
> > > to continue being abusive), because it resembles work and work is bad,
> > > as is [[m:Instruction creep]]. But this sounds obviously sensible.

> > Fully agreed, as you'd expect.

> Of course, I agree, but only in repeat cases, not one-offs.

I think inertia will be sufficient to protect this ;-)

- d.


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikitech-l] Rollback failed <- What is this?

body:
There is a so-called edit token that gets sent with every edit you
make. If your sending has no edit token, or the wrong one, you will
get a preview page instead. Normally your edit token is connected to
your login. As I have been told, it is used to make it harder to make
changes claiming to be someone else. Apparently on rare occasions,
your edit token changes, and so you will get a preview page instead of
a change. However, on rollbacks you can't get a preview page, so this
error message is provided instead.

Andre Engels

On 4/28/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rollback failed
> >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
>
> There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been
> canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please hit "back" and
> reload the page you came from, then try again.
>
> --------
>
> This is very annoying. Why did it happen? There isn't a throttle on edits, is
> there?
>
> -- mav
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: ettore di cesare

subject: [Wikitech-l] templates and category

body:
hi,
can I call a template to all articles of a category?
I afraid that I have to call the template in every single articles of
the category.

thanx,
-- ett;


from_name: Christophe Truffier

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki and PostgreSQL

body:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 11:07:27PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2005 at 09:19:13AM +0200, Christophe Truffier wrote:
> >
> > After patching the cvs checkout I've downloaded recently I realize that
> > there were some problems because few files are not the same that those
> > you use to make this patch, for example config/index.php is in revision
> > 1.97 while actual one is ~1.113 IIRC. so I were not able to put this
> > part of patch:
>
> I had to change alot of those already, those are ussually easy to
> fix.
>
> I still have a few other things to do and hope to find some time
> for it soon.

Actually the main problem raised is that installer seems not to create
tables at all. I'll have time in two weeks for that so I'll try to go
deeper into the code, maybe I could find why it doesn't work ?!

CU

--
Christophe Truffier
UIN #39872819
http://www.nah-ko.org/ - http://www.zrx21.com/

Ed, I hid a pat,
I bit a rag,
I jig a bat,
I hit a cab,
I bib a cat,
I hit a bag,
I jig a rat,
I bit a pad --
I hide !
		-- Hoey, Dan


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: mailing list for users with robots

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> Pavol Cupka wrote:
>
>> I would like to suggest making a mailing list for users running
>> robots. Would this be possible?
>> Something like wikibots-l or similar.
>
> Pywikipediabot has a mailing list. If you're hacking up yet another
> wikipedia bot framework, you probably should avoid duplicating effort...
> http://pywikipediabot.sourceforge.net/

You and other Pywikipediabot fans keep saying that on this list, but it
never changed the fact that people are more passionate about writing
their own scripts than they are about learning some obscure
never-heard-of programming language for the only purpose of reading
someone else's code which will probably turn out to be unsatisfactory
anyway.

Timwi


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: What about the bug "article which can't be
	removed" ?

body:
Victor STINNER wrote:
>
> I can help you, I know a lot of langages (assembler, Python, PHP, C++,
> etc.) and have long experience in programmation.

En anglais, on dit "programming", pas "programmation".

Wikipedia est ?crit en PHP, donc il doit ?tre possible pour toi de nous
aider. Voir sur tes premiers pas ici:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker

Bonne chance!
Timwi


from_name: Victor STINNER

subject: [Wikitech-l] What about the bug "article which can't be removed" ?

body:
Hi!

I would like to know if someone is working on the bug "Article non
effa?able ? cause d'un bug" (article which can't be removed because of a
mediawiki bug). I heared that it should come from compression
trouble ...

I can help you, I know a lot of langages (assembler, Python, PHP, C++,
etc.) and have long experience in programmation.

Bye, Haypo


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject:
[Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.5 release schedule with ENotif/EConfirm
	..  and the "zoo"

body:
 > Brion wrote:
 > aggressively getting 1.5 finished +++ Beta testing begin May 1, 2005
+++  1.5.0 release June 1, 2005.  +++ new features need to be either
*working* or *disabled. +++

You certainly saw me uploading to
http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=454 (ENotif and the other
"zoo").
As the whole "zoo" now works, I now can offer breaking it down into
smaller subject-oriented patches which might suit you. However, such a
step requires additional time.

Perhaps you can make a concession and accept my offer.
Wikinaut Tom


list: wikipedia-l

subject:
[Wikipedia-l] Re: Text to speech (Was: Conference report from
	SouthAfrica)

body:
Andy Rabagliati wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>>David 'DJ' Hedley wrote:
>>
>>When it comes to that surname the Olympic gold medalist with that name
>>made us aware that it is pronounced as though the "ag" were not in the name.
>
> After moving to Scotland (hastily) over 100 years ago we have put the a
> back in, but the g is still gone.

May I assume that your surname is Italian? In that case, I feel I must
correct you. The g is not "gone" (by which I assume you mean "silent",
i.e. not pronounced); rather, the letter combination "gl" stands for a
distinct sound (similar to how "sh" in English stands for a sound that
is different from both "s" and "h"). Unfortunately, the "gl" sound does
not occur in English (or indeed many other European languages), and to
most people it just sounds like an l.

Timwi


body:
Now, where you know all my patches at once (the 454 bugzilla) ...

I'd like to ask you for extending my deadline for the "patchlets" until
+/- May 10th.
= you will get each patchlet, as soon it is ready, but the last one on
this date at the latest.

Can you also agree on that ?
This will suits _me_ and I'll be happy with such a time schedule

Tom

Brion Vibber schrieb:

> Thomas Gries wrote:
>
>> You certainly saw me uploading to
>> http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=454 (ENotif and the other
>> "zoo").
>> As the whole "zoo" now works, I now can offer breaking it down into
>> smaller subject-oriented patches which might suit you. However, such a
>> step requires additional time.
>>
>> Perhaps you can make a concession and accept my offer.
>
>
> Sure Tom, I freely "accept your offer" for you to do the thing I've been
> asking you to do: provide individual, manageable patches for specific
> issues.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikitech-l mailing list
>Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Angela

subject: [Wikitech-l] Board elections

body:
> Seems a bit quick; the first mention of elections on foundation-l (which
> I read via the archives occasionally) was on the 26th; there is no
> mention at all on the foundation website, so this is the first I'd
> heard.  I'd love to take a more active role in the future direction of
> the project.

It's only the candidates for organizing the election which is closed,
not the candidates for the election itself. There is still plenty of
opportunity to take an active role in the future of the project. The
Foundation category on Meta
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Foundation> is a
good place to look for places you can help.

Angela.


from_name: Kate Turner

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: E-R db schema

body:
Jakob wrote in news.gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical:
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/wikipedia/phpwiki/newcodebase/docs/schema.doc?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain

> Is this the actual file or out of date?

whatever that is is extremely old.  the current code is in the phase3 module:
(URL wrapped)

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia/phase3/maintenance/
tables.sql?view=markup

> Thanks,
> Jakob

kate.


from_name: Alphax

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Make summaries mandatory

body:
The Cunctator wrote:
> Looking at a scroll of Recent Changes, I noticed that usage of the summary
> field has plummeted. I strongly recommend a simple change: making summaries
> mandatory for edits not checked as "minor". This is non-obtrusive and
> helpful. An example of a wiki that uses this feature is at
> http://www.technomanifestos.net.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

The monobook.js file I'm using (derived from [[User:ABCD/monobook.js]]
and [[User:Lupo/monobook.js]] has a Javascript alert for when the Edit
Summary is left blank (or doesn't change for section editing).

--
Alphax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,'
and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S.
Lewis


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Board elections

body:
Lee Daniel Crocker a ?crit:
> On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 08:53 -0700, Anthere wrote:
>
>
>>We currently have 5 candidates for organisation.
>>I am checking their profile and we will keep you informed as soon as possible of the outcome.
>>But basically, please consider applications closed :-)
>
>
> Seems a bit quick; the first mention of elections on foundation-l (which
> I read via the archives occasionally) was on the 26th; there is no
> mention at all on the foundation website, so this is the first I'd
> heard.  I'd love to take a more active role in the future direction of
> the project.

Well, yes, that is quick, but I do not think we need 25 people to help
on organisation of the elections :-(

But right, if more people want to help, they may further contact us.
However, the number of people helping will be limited in the end. Last
year, they were 2. 3 counting Tim. I think this year 5 is a maximum.

But I am not sure what you want to be or do ?

If you want to help organise the elections, consider yourself in. You
have been there for very very long and obviously are very trusted. So,
please join with Tim.

If you want to be a candidate for the board itself, well, great. You can
say so now, but we won't have a candidate page till we have a
organisation team.

ant


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Board elections


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Board elections


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Re: Expanding CheckUser permissions

body:
Phil Boswell stated for the record:
> "Sean Barrett" <sean at epoptic.org> wrote in
> message news:200504282019.j3SKJkT3030227 at orwen.epoptic.com...
>
>>>>I think that, for the sort of cases outlined below, CheckUser could be
>>>>used perhaps if the user themselves specifically said it would be OK.
>>>
>>>ROTFL!  It means that we should ask every sockpuppet for permission to
>>>check to see if he is a sockpuppet. :-D
>>
>>If the sockpuppet is denying that it is a sockpuppet,
>>it should be willing to give permission, ne?
>
>
>
> So when the sockpuppet in question effectively dances just out of reach
> taunting you, what do you do?
>
> "I'm not a sockpuppet, so you can take a hike!"
>
> Or are you then going to introduce the offence of "refusing the
> non-mandatory sockpuppet test"?

No, then we're going to do what we do today.

--
  Sean Barrett     | Deceive the rich, but don't insult them.
  sean at epoptic.com |


from_name: Pavol Cupka

body:
Maybe I didn't say this at the beginning, but I wanted this list to
serve as interwikibot coordination between different wikimedia sites.

Users would not discuss pywikipediabot hacking, but rather send
warning files from robot runs, discuss disambig problems, etc. From my
point of view it would be more dynamic than what we have now, that is
[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Interwiki_bot]

Maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me. I'm open for discussion. :)
--
Palica
http://sk.wikipedia.org/User:Palica
Don't forget to take your Wikamins today. - Palica


from_name: Neil Phillips

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Enabling Geo Meta on en.wikipedia.org

body:
Dear All,

I'd be grateful if anyone could describe the process whereby a new tag
/application layer gets approved for enabling on en.wikipedia.org (I asked
on irc and they suggested posting the question here).

Basically I'd like to see the Geo META data coming through from the many
articles that have already been tagged (albeit on different templates). More
on the project here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gis and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Geographical_coordin
ates

With kind regards, Neil

http://www.neilphillips.com


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [Wikitech-l] privacy policy

body:
Daniel Mayer wrote:
> --- Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I agree that the privacy policy is there for all users, anonymous or
>>not. WE do not log what people read. We leave that to our respective
>>governments.if they care to. My question is what the added value is to
>>adding more cruft to each and every article people read? What is the
>>added value? I do not think that adding all kinds of everything to every
>>page is a good idea. I prefer a clean crisp look. I prefer that all
>>relevant information is readily available from apropriate pages like a
>>help page, a user portal..
>
>
> The point is that many sites *do* track where specific IPs do on their sites.
> We need to tell readers that we don't do that - that we respect their privacy.

We actually do track what specific IPs do on our site, and we use this
for a number of purposes that some people might or might not like.  (For
example, checking for sock puppeting.)

Any change to the privacy policy would have to be worded very carefully
so as not to make promises that we can't deliver.  I prefer instead that
our privacy policy warn people that we aren't really the sort of
organization that is set up very well to protect people's privacy.  As a
matter of fact, we don't particularly care what people are doing on the
site (as long as they aren't causing trouble somehow), but it is hard
for us to make strong guarantees that we aren't tracking people or
looking at what they are doing.

--Jimbo


subject: [Wikitech-l] privacy policy

body:
?var Arnfj?r? Bjarmason wrote:
>>The point is that many sites *do* track where specific IPs do on their sites.
>>We need to tell readers that we don't do that - that we respect their privacy.
>
>
> As far as I know we *do* do that, it's recored in the webserver and/or
> cache logs along with other per-hit data.

Yes.  It's just that we store it as bulk data and don't really care what
people are looking at individually.  The developers are trusted not to
go snooping into other people's reading habits, but there is absolutely
no way for us to guarantee that they aren't doing it.

--Jimbo


from_name: Richard Holton

subject: [Wikitech-l] Strange behavior on en:wikipedia edit/save

body:
I just had an unusual thing happen to me on en:Wikipedia.

Checking some recent changes on my watchlist, I saw that the last
several lines of [[Family]] had been deleted. I copied the missing
lines from the previous version, pasted them into the current version,
and hit  "Save Page" (99% sure I didn't hit Preview). What I got back
was a preview of the page -- ok, maybe I hit the wrong button.

What was really strange is that the contents of the edit box was
truncated -- missing more at the end of the article than what I had
originally been replacing. It seems likely that something similar had
caused the original problem.

I hit "Back" on my browser, and hit "Save Page" again. This time
everything worked fine.

I'm using Firefox 1.0 under WinXP SP2. FWIW, I did note that the
[[Family]] article is large enough to trigger the size warning. That
shouldn't matter to Firefox, but may have played a part in the
original truncation...?

-- Rich Holton

[[W:en:User:Rholton]]


from_name: BJörn Lindqvist

subject: [WikiEN-l] Critics & weak articles

body:
> Personally, all I really want out of a sifter-type process is "this has
> been checked and is not blatantly vandalized or currently an active
> battleground, and the spelling looks okay to me." IMO a sifter like this
> would take a lot of stress off of editors who, rightly or wrongly, feel

But we already have that! We have the NPOV warning, the Cleanup
warning and two dozen more tags editors slap onto articles. It is only
in a few areas that Wikipedia suffers - the articles about the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict is particularily atrocious. But compare
those articles against articles on the same subject in Britannica and
you'll see that Wikipedia isn't any worse than it. Wikipedia is good
enough as it is IMHO.

--
mvh Bj?rn


from_name: Kai Kumpf

subject: [Wikitech-l] ISBN hyperlinking error

body:
hi
i just found out that (at least the german) wikimedia software
installation won't properly interpret a class ISBNs for antiquarian
books like, e.g.
ISBN B0000BK6OA
probably they are starting with a letter instead of a number. will
someone please look after that?
thx
kai (kku)


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Wikitech-l] open and free

body:
Chad Perrin (perrin at apotheon.com) [050429 04:29]:

> Probably the best way to handle this, in my mind, is to find cites for
> all points of view on the matter, write up treatments of them, and
> present them in all their contentious glory for the reader to sort out.

*psst* or have a friendly academic write some for us if we can't find ones
that ring true.

(Not that anyone I know would ever have done anything like this, you
understand.)

- d.


from_name: Thomas R. Koll

subject: [Wikitech-l] ISBN hyperlinking error

body:
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 10:41:17AM +0200, Kai Kumpf wrote:
> hi
> i just found out that (at least the german) wikimedia software
> installation won't properly interpret a class ISBNs for antiquarian
> books like, e.g.
> ISBN B0000BK6OA
> probably they are starting with a letter instead of a number. will
> someone please look after that?

Your ISBN is not valid, see [[ISBN]] for details how ISBNs are composed.

ciao, tom
--
== Weblinks ==
* http://verlag.tomk32.de/ - WikiReader Digest als Print-Ausgabe
* http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:TomK32
* http://www.hammererlehen.de - Urlaub in Berchtesgaden


subject: [WikiEN-l] Sister project templates for non-sister

body:
Angela wrote:
> We already have
> policies regulating the addition of external links to articles, and
> these should be applied to Wikicities and Wikitravel in the same way
> that they are to any other site. Just because something is free
> content, or hosted on a wiki, doesn't mean we should give these sites
> any special consideration when deciding what is actually useful as
> part of an article.

I agree completely.

--Jimbo


from_name: Phil Boswell

body:
"Sean Barrett" <sean at epoptic.org> wrote in
message news:200504282019.j3SKJkT3030227 at orwen.epoptic.com...
>> >I think that, for the sort of cases outlined below, CheckUser could be
>> >used perhaps if the user themselves specifically said it would be OK.
>> ROTFL!  It means that we should ask every sockpuppet for permission to
>> check to see if he is a sockpuppet. :-D
>
> If the sockpuppet is denying that it is a sockpuppet,
> it should be willing to give permission, ne?

So when the sockpuppet in question effectively dances just out of reach
taunting you, what do you do?

"I'm not a sockpuppet, so you can take a hike!"

Or are you then going to introduce the offence of "refusing the
non-mandatory sockpuppet test"?
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]


from_name: Delirium

subject: [Wikitech-l] open and free

body:
Anthere wrote:

> On wikipedia [[free content]], there is the following paragraph :
>
> Free content licenses differ from open content licenses in that they
> require a "source" copy of the content to be provided. For example, a
> free content publisher should make the source document (f.ex. InDesign
> or word-processor file) available along with a PDF, which in this case
> would be considered the "object" copy of the creative work. Some free
> content licenses have stronger requirements. For example, the GNU Free
> Documentation License not only requires that a "source" copy of the
> content is provided, but that the source copy should be in an
> "transparent" format, i.e., in an open format whose specification is
> freely available to everybody.
>
> It is my feeling that the following point stating that free content
> licenses differ from open content licenses for the reason free content
> licenses require a "source" copy of the content, while open content
> license do not require such a "source" copy
>
> ... is making me feel very unconfortable.

This seems to be a pretty accurate summary of the current positions as
far as I can tell.

The "free" side, principally the FSF, proposes (and writes into their
licenses) that source must be available, whch is explicitly specified in
their "free software definition" and implemented analogously in their
non-software licenses.

The "open" side, such as the Creative Commons, does not have any
requirements at all about source.  For example, if Wikipedia were
licensed under the cc-by-sa license, I could produce a modified version
and publish it in print, and refuse to provide you any sort of
electronically-readable source at all, let alone the modified wikitext.
All I'd have to do is give you permission to reuse it---it'd be up to
you to scan it in and OCR it and etc.  Since Wikipedia's under the GFDL,
we can require people who publish derivative copies of Wikipedia to give
us their electronic source, not just the physical paper book.

-Mark


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] REL1_5 Special:Listusers -- proposal to implement
	a decay time, after which the Logged-In display is no longer shown

body:
Thomas Gries wrote:
> "Xyz (Logged in)" ... for example on the http://test.leuksman.com
>
> This "(Logged in)" as such makes sense, but not, when it only means
> "user has not yet logged-out"

It's the badly named name of a default user permissions group, and has
no relation to whether or not someone is logged in at the moment.

> I propose to add a "decay time" let's say in the range of hours, and
> when this time has elapsed without the user coming back, the >>display
> status<< (Logged in) is dropped in Special:Listusers. Of course, this
> shall not mean, that the cookies for "login across sessions" are
> invalidated.

That would not make a lot of sense.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

subject: [Wikitech-l] mailing list for users with robots

body:
> Pywikipediabot has a mailing list. If you're hacking up yet another
> wikipedia bot framework, you probably should avoid duplicating effort...

Brion: A request for a list like this has been made before (although I
couldn't find the specific thread when I searched), your comments
reflects that you don't quite understand why people want such a list.

* It would NOT be a development list, you could go to a development
list like pywikipediabot-users or anura-dev for that.
* It would not be a list where people discuss a particular bot
program, the list you suggested is offtopic for anything but
pywikipediabot.

Rather it would be:
* An announcement list for pywikipedia-warnfiles (which is offtopic at
pywikipediabot-users since it's a development list)
* A discussion of any other *wikimedia-related* bot issues, which are
offtopic at pywikipediabot-users since that list is intended for
general development of a python interface to MediaWiki installations.


from_name: Tony Sidaway

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Expanding CheckUser permissions

body:
Gerard Meijssen said:
>
> Blanket policies that expect that an arbitration committee exists are
> stupid when there is no such thing.

Absolutely.  This is why I refer to "the arbitration apparatus" and not
specifically to an all-singing all-dancing arbitration committee--I'd be
pretty surprised if any other WikiMedia project had reached the stage that
it required the miniature court we have on en.

> Denying the use of the tool results
>  result in a situation does hurt a project.

Again I agree.  At least one person on each Wiki should have the right to
grant and revoke the right to use this feature.


body:
?var Arnfj?r? Bjarmason wrote:
> * It would NOT be a development list, you could go to a development
> list like pywikipediabot-users or anura-dev for that.
> * It would not be a list where people discuss a particular bot
> program, the list you suggested is offtopic for anything but
> pywikipediabot.
>
> Rather it would be:
> * An announcement list for pywikipedia-warnfiles (which is offtopic at
> pywikipediabot-users since it's a development list)
> * A discussion of any other *wikimedia-related* bot issues, which are
> offtopic at pywikipediabot-users since that list is intended for
> general development of a python interface to MediaWiki installations.

Fair enough. Created:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibots-l

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Rowan Collins

body:
On 29/04/05, Richard Holton <richholton at gmail.com> wrote:

> Checking some recent changes on my watchlist, I saw that the last
> several lines of [[Family]] had been deleted. I copied the missing
> lines from the previous version, pasted them into the current version,
> and hit  "Save Page" (99% sure I didn't hit Preview). What I got back
> was a preview of the page -- ok, maybe I hit the wrong button.

I've experienced this half of the problem - I seem to remember being
told it happens when the connection to the live database fails or
something (i.e. it's a fall-back for when the system is under heavy
load)...

> What was really strange is that the contents of the edit box was
> truncated -- missing more at the end of the article than what I had
> originally been replacing.

...but not this half - or not that I've noticed, anyway. Most odd.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Wikitech-l] single quote character in italic and bold

body:
On 29/04/05, Ivan Vighetto <sbisolo at libero.it> wrote:
> There's a way to have single quote character slanted (italic) using only
> wiki-sintax?

> If I write something as ''A'A'' the "A" charatecters appear slanted, the
> quote character (') appears as normal test.

That's nothing to do with the wiki syntax, just the typeface being
used - because it's so short, it's hard to tell whether an apostrophe
*is* italic. I thought maybe the font was just using the same glyph,
but if you make the text bigger, you can see the difference: try
<big>''A'A'' A'A</big>, or use the browser's "text zoom" function.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Ivan Vighetto

body:
There's a way to have single quote character slanted (italic) using only
wiki-sintax?

If I write something as ''A'A'' the "A" charatecters appear slanted, the
quote character (') appears as normal test.

If I write something as '''A'A''' all characters appear bold (as expected).

If I write something as '''''A'A''''' all characters appear bold and
slanted,  the quote character (') appears bold, not slanted.


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] phase3/includes Parser.php, 1.424,
	1.425

references:
<E1DQ3rn-0000P2-Et@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net>
	<9f02ca4c0504251810414f7f81@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4koaf$vrl$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On 26/04/05, Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
> > On 25/04/05, Tim Starling <timstarling at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> As I said on #mediawiki when I was whinging about bug 1770, if a
> solution involves globals, it's the wrong solution. I'm not surprised
> that my quick hack caused side-effects, but I really hate link table
> corruption so I wanted to fix that first.

Well, as I say, in the code I'm working on (will upload to
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689 soon; no, really, I
finally finished what I'd started) - and I notice in your recent
change also - that hack doesn't require a global, because it is
calling a Parser function from within Parser.

But that was, of course, beside the point: the question is, should it
be possible to replace the link-holders on only part of the text, or
is this not an intended ability? The way the function was implemented
(using a global array and a string of text as an input) suggested that
it didn't operate on the article as a whole, but emptying the array of
link-holders each call violated that.

However, changes since seem to have reverted to this behaving as
expected (the link-holders are replaced in the provided string, and
others links still work).

> Perhaps a better solution would be to break up Skin::makeLinkObj() to
> the point where a workalike function can be put in Parser with minimal
> code duplication. The function in Parser would add link holders to a
> Parser member variable, and the Skin::makeLinkObj() would just resolve
> links immediately. Skin::makeLinkObj() would mainly be called for
> navigation links and special pages.

As far as I understand what you're suggesting here, it doesn't really
solve the current issue, which is that within an image caption, the
links need to be parsed recursively, but not replaced with
link-holders - so that, when used in alt and/or title attributes, the
HTML tags can be stripped back out and leave the text.

The current approach does seem kind of wasteful, in that it replaces
them with link-holders and then immediately resolves them afterwards;
but in order to not replace them at all, the whole of
replaceInternalLinks() needs to run in a "resolve immediately" kind of
way. Was this what the "postParseLinkColor" system (which I notice
you've just removed) used to do, or was that something different?

In general, which approach do you think seems better?
(A)
$foo = $this->replaceInternalLinks($foo);
$foo = $this->replaceLinkHolders($foo);
(B)
$this->resolveLinksStraightAway(true);  # or $skin->... or whatever
$foo = $this->replaceInternalLinks($foo);
$this->resolveLinksStraightAway(false);  # or $skin->... or whatever

I guess the third option is to only use placeholders for the part of
the markup that depends on the target's existence, which is presumably
just a CSS class or whatever (thus leaving other parts of the code to
separate the HTML tags from the displayed text). The problem then
being people who want the old-style "link-name?" rather than
colour-distinctions, I guess.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Sérgio Ribeiro

subject: [Foundation-l] portuguese wikipedia

body:
Hi,
What kind of "public relation activity" ?
I might be able to help, i not I'll ask other editors.

All best,
Get_It

On 4/29/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Are they any participants of the portuguese wikipedia active on that
> mailing list ? If so, are you ready to help with a little public
> relation activity ? If not, could anyone indicate me a portuguese editor
> who would like to be ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Edit this page @ http://pt.wikipedia.org


subject: [Foundation-l] portuguese wikipedia


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: open and free

body:
Lee Daniel Crocker a ?crit:
> On Thu, 2005-04-28 at 08:10 +0200, Anthere wrote:
>
>
>>I have been wondering if the problem was not in the definition of the
>>term "source". Can anyone explain to me what is "source" ????
>
>
> That's one definition that's pretty easy: the "source data" of any
> piece of information is _the most preferred form_ of that data for
> making changes.  So for program code that would imply fully-commented
> source code as the original developer used; for wiki articles it
> would be the wikitext.  For images it might be some graphic editor's
> native format that contains info on layers and objects and such.
> For other forms of text, it might be native files from Word, pre-
> transformed XML with XSLT stylesheets, etc.
>
> On a larger issue, I don't think Wikipedia should fall into the trap
> of accepting definitions of terms from activists.  NPOV and the needs
> of an encyclopedia demand that we not allow hijacking of the language
> by folks like FSF, OSI, and others, good though their intentions may
> be.  For example, any definition of "free software" that includes the
> GPL but not Sun's Java or MySQL is a horrible abuse of plain English.
> Of course, we should report that large groups of people use these
> terms in specialized ways, so long as we refrain from endorsing such
> use.
>
> Your particular case is another good example of language abuse: for
> software, the "generally accepted" (meaning as forced upon geeks like
> us by FSF and OSI) notions of "free software" and "open source software"
> mean "comes with source code and licensed to require disclosure of
> source in derivative products" and just "comes with source code"
> respectively; whereas in the textual content world, the terms "free
> content" and "open content" are generally used interchangeably to mean
> "licensed to allow redistribution"; but some activists (those with whom
> you are arguing) would have "free" mean "comes with source and licensed
> to require distribution of source in derivatives".

I see...

Well... I guess I will let the inaccuracy tag on the page for a few
months then, and wait and see what happens... while the definition could
  maybe evolve by various means thanks to us possibly...

Sigh

Thanks Lee Daniel


subject: [Foundation-l] portuguese wikipedia

body:
Hello,

Are they any participants of the portuguese wikipedia active on that
mailing list ? If so, are you ready to help with a little public
relation activity ? If not, could anyone indicate me a portuguese editor
who would like to be ?

Thanks

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] portuguese wikipedia


subject: [Wikitech-l] Article counter

body: No.


from_name: Michael Keppler

body:
Pavol Cupka schrieb:
> I would like to suggest making a mailing list for users running
> robots. Would this be possible?
> Something like wikibots-l or similar.

I strongly second this request. I only know the situation on
de.wikipedia, but I do hope such a list would help with the following points
* there are several people running the same bots (on the same wiki), but
that's not always coordinated
* It's easier to discuss needed future bot functionality on a mailing
list than on Wiki pages.
* bot development in one WikiMedia project is often unknown in other
wiki/other language projects
* bot software might play a role in future attacks against Wikipedia as
well as in defending against attacks, so some central place for
coordination might be a good preparation for such a future

And a very personal opinion: I'd really like a central place to also
discuss ethical and moral aspects of bot usage on the projects.

Ciao, Michael.


from_name: Alfio Puglisi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Article counter

body:
Hi folks,
is there any way to retrieve the # of articles in a wikipedia language
with a GET request or something similar?

I know, one can edit an article and put {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} there, make a
preview, and save the value, but it's kinda overkill to automate all
that just to get a number. Is there a simple way to access that number?

Thanks,
Alfio


subject: [Wikitech-l] Article counter

body:
On 29/04/05, Alfio Puglisi <puglisi at arcetri.astro.it> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> is there any way to retrieve the # of articles in a wikipedia language
> with a GET request or something similar?

You could try GETting [[Special:Statistics]], and working out which of
the numbers displayed is the number of articles (looking, it seems
different languages put the number of *articles* and number of *pages*
different ways around - perhaps you could compare the various numbers,
and work out that there will always be less articles than pages, and
less of either than edits, etc...)

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Foundation-l] Board elections : organisation team

body:
Hello

The organisation team will be

Danny
Britty
Datrio
BjarteSorensen

We will also be helped by Tim Starling on the
technical side. Bjarte will be able to assist/control
the technical settings.

Two candidates were not kept (I explain below why,
nothing personal), and Danny suggested that we add to
the team Britty, which I thought was a very good idea.
Upon asking, she accepted.

Why did we keep these names ? (and not others...)

First, I thought a team of 3-4 was a good idea. More
would be harder to organise.

Danny was already the organiser last year, so will
bring the weight of knowledge on top of his own
abilities.

All people kept have been active for several months at
least, so know community dynamics.

All people kept are both active on meta AND on irc,
which unable vivid and immediate discussions.

People chosen represent 4 continents, several
languages and several projects. We hope that this will
further stimulate the idea the project is
international and all languages should get involved on
meta issues.
Britty represents the female touch and her involvement
in translation issues will be most appreciated. Bjarte
is a rather newcomer in the meta team (good to avoid
formation of cabal...and renew blood). Datrio is very
involved in wikinews (and should keep the team aware
all projects are involved :-)).

Here we are !

The new team has already escaped in
#wikimedia-conclave
so I can not tell you more.

We will keep them informed of the last basic
requirements soon.

If there is an opposition to one of those, please
explain why now or keep your words within you forever
;-)

Anthere

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikitech-l] Board elections : organisation team


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject:
[Wikitech-l] REL1_5 Special:Listusers -- proposal to implement a
 decay time, after which the Logged-In display is no longer shown

body:
"Xyz (Logged in)" ... for example on the http://test.leuksman.com

This "(Logged in)" as such makes sense, but not, when it only means
"user has not yet logged-out"

I propose to add a "decay time" let's say in the range of hours, and
when this time has elapsed without the user coming back, the >>display
status<< (Logged in) is dropped in Special:Listusers. Of course, this
shall not mean, that the cookies for "login across sessions" are
invalidated.

T.


subject: [Wikitech-l] how to submit multi-patches efficiently ?

body:
A certain enhancement patch Z is based on CVS TAG X and
a split of Z into smaller patches p1, p2, p3 is requested,
Z := p1 + p2 + p3

What's your policy here, shall I publish

* diff( X, p1 )
* diff( X, p2 )
* diff( X, p3 )

or

* diff( X, p1 )
* diff( X + p1, p2),
* diff( X + p1 + p2, p3)


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: board elections

body:
Ray Saintonge a ?crit:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> We need to have new elections for the board of directors soon.
>>
>> Which implies at the same time very probably some technical set up as
>> well as election administrators to organise it. In the same way than
>> last year, we would need a couple of volunteers who are not running
>> for election to serve as election administrators. Translations work
>> will also be needed.
>>
>> Please volunteer!
>> Elections details are not fixed yet, but I guess we need to start make
>> things move :-)
>> Jimbo will keep you informed on the matter in a little while and will
>> very likely handle most of its organisation as a neutral party.
>>
> When the by-laws were accepted they provided that the elected
> representatives would be one for all contributors and one for paid-up
> members.  What is the current status of that distinction?  Have we
> abandoned the idea of paid members?
>
> Ec

HIya

Good question

I do not think we have abandonned the idea of paid members, though it is
  still not planned in the near future.

What we agreed on though, is that there will be no distinction between a
representative of members and representative of editors. Both roles will
be the same.

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: board elections


from_name: Zigger

body:
The HTML is correct for MediaWiki 1.4.3, producing A'A,
A'A and A'A.  If you increase the text size in
your web browser, you will probably see the difference.

-- Zigger

On 4/30/05, Ivan Vighetto <sbisolo at libero.it> wrote:
> There's a way to have single quote character slanted (italic) using only
> wiki-sintax?
>
> If I write something as ''A'A'' the "A" charatecters appear slanted, the
> quote character (') appears as normal test.
>
> If I write something as '''A'A''' all characters appear bold (as expected).
>
> If I write something as '''''A'A''''' all characters appear bold and
> slanted,  the quote character (') appears bold, not slanted.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:
> On 26/04/05, Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
>>>On 25/04/05, Tim Starling <timstarling at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>>
>>As I said on #mediawiki when I was whinging about bug 1770, if a
>>solution involves globals, it's the wrong solution. I'm not surprised
>>that my quick hack caused side-effects, but I really hate link table
>>corruption so I wanted to fix that first.
>
>
> Well, as I say, in the code I'm working on (will upload to
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689 soon; no, really, I
> finally finished what I'd started) - and I notice in your recent
> change also - that hack doesn't require a global, because it is
> calling a Parser function from within Parser.

Interesting, you suggested splitting makeImageLinkObj(), which is
exactly the idea I came up with independently, and implemented. Great
minds think alike.

> But that was, of course, beside the point: the question is, should it
> be possible to replace the link-holders on only part of the text, or
> is this not an intended ability? The way the function was implemented
> (using a global array and a string of text as an input) suggested that
> it didn't operate on the article as a whole, but emptying the array of
> link-holders each call violated that.
>
> However, changes since seem to have reverted to this behaving as
> expected (the link-holders are replaced in the provided string, and
> others links still work).

My original idea was to replace link placeholders in the output buffer,
not the parser output text. This is the scheme I helped X13 to
implement. This unfortunately had serious problems, and it was soon
moved to Parser.php (1.329) by Will Mahan. His CVS log entry was:

"Move replaceLinkHolders() from OutputPage to Parser, because
it needs to happen before unstripNoWiki() and before tidy.
This also makes the parser more self-contained, so there is
no need to create an OutputPage object for the parser
tester."

The use of a global variable to hold the links was an inconsistent
holdover from before this move, the parser state is the obvious place to
put this information.

Emptying the link array on each call was a misguided attempt to fix bug
1770, I'm not advocating or defending it. My more recent changes were
mostly code refactoring, I was careful not to change behaviour
significantly.

>>Perhaps a better solution would be to break up Skin::makeLinkObj() to
>>the point where a workalike function can be put in Parser with minimal
>>code duplication. The function in Parser would add link holders to a
>>Parser member variable, and the Skin::makeLinkObj() would just resolve
>>links immediately. Skin::makeLinkObj() would mainly be called for
>>navigation links and special pages.
>
>
> As far as I understand what you're suggesting here, it doesn't really
> solve the current issue, which is that within an image caption, the
> links need to be parsed recursively, but not replaced with
> link-holders - so that, when used in alt and/or title attributes, the
> HTML tags can be stripped back out and leave the text.
>
> The current approach does seem kind of wasteful, in that it replaces
> them with link-holders and then immediately resolves them afterwards;
> but in order to not replace them at all, the whole of
> replaceInternalLinks() needs to run in a "resolve immediately" kind of
> way. Was this what the "postParseLinkColor" system (which I notice
> you've just removed) used to do, or was that something different?

I don't think a "resolve immediately" mode is a good way to make the
parser faster. Optimisation of DB query count is the most important
thing. I considered replacing <!--LINK--> tags in the alt text with
<!--TLINK-->, which would be later replaced by stripped-down link text,
the only thing in my way was Sanitizer::stripAllTags(), which was
removing the comments.

The resolve immediately mode was removed from Linker because its
function has been replaced by Linker::makeLinkObj(), which always
resolves immediately, and Parser::makeLinkHolder(), which never does.
This removes the need to bracket calls to Linker::makeLinkObj() with
mode changes.

> In general, which approach do you think seems better?
> (A)
> $foo = $this->replaceInternalLinks($foo);
> $foo = $this->replaceLinkHolders($foo);
> (B)
> $this->resolveLinksStraightAway(true);  # or $skin->... or whatever
> $foo = $this->replaceInternalLinks($foo);
> $this->resolveLinksStraightAway(false);  # or $skin->... or whatever

I think A is better, because it requires one query, not one per link.
But if we can delay the call to replaceLinkHolders() to once per parse
rather than once per image caption, that would be much better than either.

> I guess the third option is to only use placeholders for the part of
> the markup that depends on the target's existence, which is presumably
> just a CSS class or whatever (thus leaving other parts of the code to
> separate the HTML tags from the displayed text). The problem then
> being people who want the old-style "link-name?" rather than
> colour-distinctions, I guess.

Yes, I think that's a good idea. It's not just the class, it's also the
URL. You'd have to process the HTML at the end of the transformation,
find the links, do the existence check query, and modify the tags. To
handle question marks you'd have to find the matching </a> and add
something after it. If that's too hard, remove the feature, few people
will miss it. Least of all developers like me who are obsessed with
parser cache hit rate.

-- Tim Starling


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: privacy policy

body:
Jimmy Wales (jwales at wikia.com) [050430 02:55]:
> ?var Arnfj?r? Bjarmason wrote:

> >>The point is that many sites *do* track where specific IPs do on their sites.
> >>We need to tell readers that we don't do that - that we respect their privacy.

> > As far as I know we *do* do that, it's recored in the webserver and/or
> > cache logs along with other per-hit data.

> Yes.  It's just that we store it as bulk data and don't really care what
> people are looking at individually.  The developers are trusted not to
> go snooping into other people's reading habits, but there is absolutely
> no way for us to guarantee that they aren't doing it.

But then, the same holds for the sysadmins of *any* website, particularly a
top 100 site - the sysadmins, as the ones responsible for tending the
machinery, will look through the logs as the task of keeping the site
running requires; whether to optimise things for the pattern of usage or to
track noteworthy abusers. That's what sysadmins are for. No privacy policy
can reasonably be taken to mean otherwise.

Ours are notably picky on who gets access to the confidential info, which
is reassuring :-)

This was a question that came up just today, actually - I was doing a
Special:CheckUser sockpuppet check on an IP. It turned out to be someone
with a username using their IP as a sockpuppet and pretending it was a
different person. I sanity-checked with Tim Starling and he agreed that if
it's relevant, and they're sock-puppeteering (they were), then revealing
the user-IP link is something they can't reasonably object to. I'd say that
if the privacy policy seems to say otherwise, the privacy policy needs
fixing. That's almost certainly a Foundation matter, of course, so I've
cc'ed this to that list.

- d.


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: privacy policy


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: privacy policy


from_name: Pavol Cupka

body:
Thank you :)

> Fair enough. Created:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibots-l
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>

--
Palica
http://sk.wikipedia.org/User:Palica
Nezabudni si vzia? svoje Wikam?ny. / Don't forget to take your
Wikamins today. - Palica
http://sk.wikipedia.org - slobodn? encyklop?dia, ktor? m??e ka?d?
upravova? - AJ TY


from_name: Sean Barrett

body:
Tony Sidaway stated for the record:

> Sean Barrett said:
>
>>>>I think that, for the sort of cases outlined below, CheckUser could
>>>>be used perhaps if the user themselves specifically said it would be
>>>>OK.
>>>
>>>ROTFL!  It means that we should ask every sockpuppet for permission to
>>> check to see if he is a sockpuppet. :-D
>>
>>If the sockpuppet is denying that it is a sockpuppet,
>>it should be willing to give permission, ne?
>
> Not necessarily.  Someone wrongly accused of being a sock puppet could
> well have objections to an IP check on grounds of privacy.

There is a technical term for people who think they can use the Internet
while keeping their IP addresses private.

--
  Sean Barrett     | The magic words are squeamish ossifrage.
  sean at epoptic.com |


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Rollback failed <- What is this?

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:

> Also, I'm not sure that the login session is being properly initialized
> when you visit with a saved-password token cookie. I'll have to look at
> it a bit more.
>
> If you find this happening to you, try a) going to an edit page if you
> haven't during this session, or b) log out and log back in.

I have also noticed this phenomenom over the last week or so... for a
couple of days I got the message mav describes and more recently I have
got the "preview when expected to save" phenomenom. I'm afraid I can't
give a good bug report because from the user's perspective it seems to
happen rarely and randomly.

My setup:
1) I accept cookies and don't delete them so I am almost never logged
out of Wikipedia.
2) Firefox 1.0.x on WinXP.
3) *Possibly* it seems to happen more when I make a whole series of
edits in quick succession, but this could be coincidence.

Pete


from_name: Sj

subject: [Foundation-l] Quarto and local chapters

body:
On 4/30/05, Kurt Jansson <jansson at gmx.net> wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
>
> > I think it would be great if the german chapter could possibly inform us of
> > their last activities in the past trimester, so that something can be written
> > on Quarto about it.
>
> Okay, is there a deadline we have to keep?

I will write a blurb in my poor English on Monday if we do not have
anything by then.  So, that would be a helpful deadline.  A little
bird said that Henriette may have some financial stats by then, too...
which would be a nice touch.

--
+sj+
 _ _ :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
--- Pete/Pcb21 <pete_pcb21_wpmail at pcbartlett.com> wrote:
> My setup:
> 1) I accept cookies and don't delete them so I am almost never logged
> out of Wikipedia.
> 2) Firefox 1.0.x on WinXP.
> 3) *Possibly* it seems to happen more when I make a whole series of
> edits in quick succession, but this could be coincidence.

Same setup I had. I don't remember this ever happening on my Linux box at home.
And this also happened while I was on RC patrol when I opened a whole bunch of
rollbacks in new tabs only to discover that almost all failed (one can't click
the back button to get to the rollback link again at that point).

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


list: wiktionary-l

from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wiktionary-l] [Fwd: Wiktionary presentation]

body:
Hoi,
I did send this message using the wrong mail-ID so I do it again using a
forward. This is my request to speak at Wikimania.
Thanks,
    GerardM

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Wiktionary presentation
Date: 	Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:28:34 +0200
From: 	Gerard Meijssen <gerardm at myrealbox.com>
To: 	cfp at wikimedia.org
CC: 	wiktionary-l at Wikipedia.org

Hoi,
Several times I have tried to make sure that we would have a wiktionary
presentation. I was told that this could not be as I already am slotted
to speak. That workshop I would gladly do away with in order to be able
to speak about Wiktionary. Wiktionary will become very relevan for many
people and as I say in my presentation this will be increasingly true.
The one thing that Ultimate Wiktionary does is synthesising one
lexicilogical resource potentially containing all words of all languages.

I believe that with the intial deployment of the Ultimate Wiktionary, we
will continue on a learning curve that will result in something
extraordinary.

Thanks,
GerardM
---------------------------------------

The excitement of Wiktionary

A paper for a presentation for Wikimania 2005

Wiktionary is the biggest project after Wikipedia. As there will be big
changes in the way Wiktionary will work, there is a need to explain what
these changes are about. These changes will be quite fundamental; they
will merge wiktionaries in one Ultimate Wiktionarie and consequently the
communities will merge as well. Technically the changes are as profound,
the software for Wiktionary and Wikipedia are the same; with the
inclusion of Wikidata in the Mediawiki software it will be possible to
host structured data within a Mediawiki project. This will have a
profound impact on the way information will be added.

The current wiktionaries are all separate projects; they all do things
in their own way. Some have adopted a set of shared templates that allow
for the easy transfer of data from one Wiktionary to another. This
manual transfer allows for over 80% of the data to be the same in each
Wiktionary. The drawback of this system is that changes in one project
are not easily shared. It is not explicitly clear who added new content
and it can therefore be argued that the rules of the GNU-FDL are not
complied with.

As the different wiktionaries will be merged into the structured
?Ultimate Wiktionary? all changes will be possible to all users never
mind what primary language is used. It means that the rich Neapolitan,
Sicilian, Papiamento resources will be available to all users. The
Kurdish content will have much more links to other languages, it will be
a richer resource based on what we already have.

In the implementation of UW, we will incorporate logic that is
associated with thesauri. It will be possible to rank terminology, to
say things like relations, inclusiveness etc. This logic is particularly
important, as we want to include thesauri like the GEMET thesaurus.
GEMET is one thesaurus of the European Community; inside UW it will be
possible to add translations to other non-EU languages. This in turn
will facilitate trade from an to the EU.

One reason why we want to include this kind of information is, because
it will make UW relevant. As we will include more and more lexicological
information more people will turn to UW for this type of information. As
UW will have the ?edit? button people are invited to add content and
improve content.

One other thing we envision doing with UW, is to allow for the import
and export of XML data. We hope to get formal cooperation with
organizations like the EU. This way we enable the EU to keep their
quality eye on their thesaurus.

It is incredible that the funding by Kennisnet for the initial
development of UW makes it possible to entertain all these
possibilities. In my mind it is just a matter of time, hard work and
enthusiasm that will make all this come true.

I have given presentations about Wiktionary before, you can find them on
META:Presentations.


from_name: Magnus Manske

subject: [Wikitech-l] What about the bug "article which can't be removed" ?

body:
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Brion Vibber schrieb:
> Victor STINNER wrote:
>
>> I would like to know if someone is working on the bug "Article non
>> effa?able ? cause d'un bug" (article which can't be removed because of a
>> mediawiki bug). I heared that it should come from compression
>> trouble ...
>
>
> This will be fixed with some changes to the deletion backend in
> MediaWiki 1.5. (This isn't fully finished yet, I hope to get it done
> this weekend. Search the archives for my previous post on this subject.)

While you're at it, the current 1.5 page deletion doesn't work for older
MySQL versions that don't support the "DELETE tables FROM ..." syntax.
Fix it or require a certain miminum version?

Magnus
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from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Magnus Manske wrote:
> While you're at it, the current 1.5 page deletion doesn't work for older
> MySQL versions that don't support the "DELETE tables FROM ..." syntax.
> Fix it or require a certain miminum version?

It doesn't work _at all_ at the moment as it will delete the wrong items
if any.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikitech-l] Pywikipediabot

body:
mbecker ? wrote:
> I'm trying to get in touch with the developers of Pywikipediabot
> I've e-mailed the lead developer as listed on the sourceforge project
> website a couple times about bug fixes and improvements I've made to
> the code.
> I'm interesting in getting developer access to the project so I can
> commit some of them.
> Please send me an e-mail if you can help me with this.

Try the pywikipediabot-users mailing list.
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=93107

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Tony Sidaway

body:
Sean Barrett said:
>> >I think that, for the sort of cases outlined below, CheckUser could
>> >be used perhaps if the user themselves specifically said it would be
>> >OK.
>> >
>> >
>> ROTFL!  It means that we should ask every sockpuppet for permission to
>>  check to see if he is a sockpuppet. :-D
>
> If the sockpuppet is denying that it is a sockpuppet,
> it should be willing to give permission, ne?

Not necessarily.  Someone wrongly accused of being a sock puppet could
well have objections to an IP check on grounds of privacy.


from_name: Kurt Jansson

body:
Anthere wrote:

> I think it would be great if the german chapter could possibly inform us of
> their last activities in the past trimester, so that something can be written
> on Quarto about it.

Okay, is there a deadline we have to keep?

> Another additional question : I am confused about which list is the german
> association one ?

There's vereinde-l at wikimedia.org, which is open for everybody, and
info at wikimedia.de if you only want to inform the board of the German association.

Kurt

--
"Reading the Wikipedia is not a substitute for first aid training."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation

Kurt Jansson, Wiener Str. 7, 10999 Berlin, http://www.jansson.de/


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

body:
Kurt Jansson wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> I think it would be great if the german chapter could possibly inform
>> us of
>> their last activities in the past trimester, so that something can be
>> written
>> on Quarto about it.

> Okay, is there a deadline we have to keep?
>
>> Another additional question : I am confused about which list is the
>> german
>> association one ?
>
> There's vereinde-l at wikimedia.org, which is open for everybody, and
> info at wikimedia.de if you only want to inform the board of the German
> association.

If you want to inform everybody, please use vorstand at wikimedia.de (info
is for questions or requests which one person alone can handle)

You can also find this information in english on Meta-Wiki:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Deutschland
or in german on http://www.wikimedia.de/kontakt/

greetings,
elian


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] GFDL works inside other published works

body:
I'm not an expert, but I have a few thoughts.

My guess is that on the page near the beginning of the book where it
gives copyright information, it should say "some portions of this book
are (C) Wikipedia, and are released under the GNU Free Documentation
licence" or something of the sort.

There should also be, somewhere in the book, a list of which parts are
from Wikipedia, and it should list all contributors for each article -
real names where available, pseudonyms where not, and rather than
listing all IPs say "and a number of anonymous contributors". I
personally would ask on the talkpages of those users with only
pseudonyms given if perhaps they'd be willing to divulge their real
name for the book - I know that I certainly would rather be cited in a
book as Mark Williamson than node_ue.

And as far as listing pseudonyms looking funny: just use quotes around
the name, such as "B Movie Bandit", "Vandalbot", "I Am Sexy", etc.

Mark

On 30/04/05, Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Someone in Boston is publishing a book in which he would like to
> include a few entire Wikipedia articles; he wrote me recently to ask
> whether this had been done before, and precisely how he should go
> about including the GFDL where, to clarify which sections of the
> published work it covers, and how he should most perfectly comply with
> the license (should he list main authors himself?  all non-anon
> authors?  should he use pseudonyms or full names of both are
> available? Do IP contributors ever include their real name on their
> user page?  Will it look funny to list pseudonyms as authors in what
> is otherwise a scholarly text?).
>
> If there are precedents, please point me to them.  If anyone can
> advise on this matter, please respond!  Perhaps I should I contact the
> FSF directly, but I thought I'd check with this list first.
>
> --SJ, who is very curious what said book is about
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: mbecker ™

subject: [Wikitech-l] Pywikipediabot

body:
I'm trying to get in touch with the developers of Pywikipediabot
I've e-mailed the lead developer as listed on the sourceforge project
website a couple times about bug fixes and improvements I've made to
the code.
I'm interesting in getting developer access to the project so I can
commit some of them.
Please send me an e-mail if you can help me with this.
Thanks,
Michael Becker


subject: [Foundation-l] Board elections : some thoughts

body:
On 4/30/05, Andre Engels <andreengels at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/30/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Second, the participation rate of languages have been very diversed.
> > English participants represented a huge number of voters.
> > German were second and french third. Other languages had basically not
> > participated but for a very few people.
> > Link : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3AElection_participation2.png
>
> I don't agree with the conclusion you draw from this graph. The
> English and German Wikipedias are much larger than those in other
> languages, so it's only to be expected there will be more votes coming
> from those. Taking the number of active editors in April 2004 as my
> measure, I find that French participation is remarkably large, but
> English and German is not much more than would be expected from a fair
> division over the languages. In numbers (top 16 Wikipedia languages;
> numbers are number of editors, number of voters, and the second as a
> percentage of the first):
>
> French  321  89  28%
> Finnish 33   5   15%
> Norse 27  3  11%
> Italian 69  7 10%
> German 1613 145 9%
> English 2746 238 9%
> Dutch 191 16 8%
> Chinese 143 11 7%
> Esperanto 44 3 7%
> Polish 124 8 6%
> Swedish 98 6 6%
> Danish 67 4 6%
> Japanese 360 18 5%
> Spanish 123 6 5%
> Hebrew 69 3 4%
> Portuguese 67 0 0%

Very interesting.  Thanks for that analysis!  Fr: users are also
unusually well integrated with IRC.  Clearly the conclusion is that
eating well makes you productive.

SJ


from_name: Anthere

body:
I would like to suggest a few direction of thoughts...

Last year, a couple of concerns erupted before/during/after the elections.

First, some wondered what the role of the board was.
I would be pleased that some feedback is given regarding that topic
during the election. So that the next board may try to do its best for
taking community opinion into consideration.

I have also wondered if it would not be interesting that some of you
prepare a sort of short list of questions, which each candidate would
have to answer or comment.

Second, the participation rate of languages have been very diversed.
English participants represented a huge number of voters.
German were second and french third. Other languages had basically not
participated but for a very few people.
Link : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3AElection_participation2.png

Our project is international. It is not very suitable that such a
discrepancy exists.
I would like that all non english editors on foundation-l take special
attention in involving their projects.

Third, last year, some rather heated discussions occured when results
were not fully displayed. I would be pleased that this is set before the
election, so that editors are not surprised when results are not
published. Hence the questions : which results should be published ?
Interest and disadvantages of not publishing certain results ?
Publication of results per projects ? Only limited to bigger projects ?

Fourth, do you have overall some feedback to give on last year
organisation, so that this year organisers can take them into account ?

Thanks.

Anthere


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections : some thoughts


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections

body:
On 4/26/05, Erik Moeller <erik_moeller at gmx.de> wrote:
>
> I have three requests regarding the organization of this year's election:
>
> 1) Translations. We need
> - the announcement that people can stand for election, and how
> - the 1000 character candidate profiles
> - the announcement of the actual vote
> to be translated into as many languages as possible. To avoid candidate
> bias, a translation of candidate profiles should only be allowed if all
> profiles are included.

Well said.  In the interests of speed, it might make sense to have a
public place for initial profiles, before they are translated, and to
add translations one language at a time, for all profiles at once.
That way translations need not wait on a multitude of languages all
being finished at the same time.

> If Sj is not going to stand, I think he would make an excellent
> organizer for this. Getting longer platform statements translated could
> remain within an individual candidate's responsibility.

Thank you, Erik, you are kind to suggest me.  I am sure that most of
this list would like to see the upcoming elections showcase the
projects' many languages and projects.  Perhaps the organization can
be distributed more broadly than a single person.  I would like to see
coordinators on each project engaged to help out; see my separate
email about election translations.

As to my standing, I have some ideas about possible roles of the
member representatives that I would like to share, particularly with
the community members who do not frequent the meta-watering holes like
this list; a candidate's statement seems a good forum for that.
However, the beginning of my statement would be a request to re-elect
Angela and Anthere.  We were lucky to have chosen so well last year.
I doubt anyone could have foreseen that the Board's first year would
proceed so smoothly, so calmly, or with so much transparency, despite
many growing pains and opportunities for conflict and crisis.

> 2) I would like the candidate profiles to be displayed *on the voting
> page* in the language set in the user preferences. This should be doable
> as a hack by putting them in the language files or the MediaWiki
> namespace(s); I can write a script to assist with that.

This would be great.

> 3) Given the growing importance of Wikimedia and the Board, I'd like the
> integrity of this election to be closely watched. This should include a
> post-election analysis of the data: checking for sock puppets, double
> votes on multiple wikis, etc. This could be a collaborative effort. I'd
> like to ask the organizers to make this part of their election planning.

A non-technical hack to help ensure the reliability of the elections:
Have a known contact from each project who is willing to comment on
the history/identity of each voting user.

Cheers,
   SJ


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections


subject:
SV: [Wikipedia-l] Language policy agreement in the
	NorwegianWikipedia community

body:
I'm still curious re: Riksmal and Hognorsk.

Mark

On 30/04/05, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> Chris Nyborg wrote:
> > I agree, in principle, but I do hope that we can take his slowly.
>
> I agree completely with this part... about taking things slowly. :-)
>
> I would say that the analysis given here was excellent and it made me
> really happy to read all about it: this is how Wikipedia works when it
> is working best: people who don't agree on everything taking the time to
> discuss it at great length and try to find a way to accomodate everyone,
> and get a sense of the wisest way forward.
>
> Based on this, I don't support the creation of a 3rd wikipedia unless
> and until the users who want it are able to build a consensus within the
> community that it is a sensible thing to do.
>
> --Jimbo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Date Formats

body:
James R. Johnson wrote:

>I was wondering more along the lines of a tag, like the geo, so that we can
>format the date within the article, such as [[date:10-24-2005;us;md]] or
>[[date:24-10-2005;iso;dm]] to tell the computer to display in the first case
>the date October 24th, 2005 in the US format, with only the month and day,
>thus "October 24" and in the second case in the ISO format, with only the
>day and month, so "24 October" with the month names coming from the System
>messages.
>
ISO format is 2005-10-24.i.e. yyyy-mm-dd

Ec


from_name: Erik Moeller

body:
Anthere:

> Second, the participation rate of languages have been very diversed.
> English participants represented a huge number of voters.
> German were second and french third. Other languages had basically not
> participated but for a very few people.
> Link : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3AElection_participation2.png

Yes, that's a very good point. The graph you link to does not actually
show the participation *rate*, but the number of participants per
language. It might be interesting to compare this against, say, the
number of very active contributors per language in June 2004:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/TablesWikipediansEditsGt100.htm

Doing this, we get the following rates (roughly, as I'm reading the
number of votes per language from the graph):

41% EN
41% DE
91% FR
20% JA
32% NL
75% ZH
17% PL
31% IT
etc.

Taking just these languages, English and German had average rates, but
the French participation rate was extraordinary by any measure. Japanese
and Polish in particular were depressingly low. Hopefully, Datrio and
Britty will be able to help with that.

In general, I can only really think of one solution -- getting the
relevant text translated into as many languages as possible. For the
sake of fairness, we should announce the election in the same location
in all languages (e.g. Recent Changes). We won't be able to stop local
"get out the vote" efforts, so we should encourage them instead and hope
that as many projects as possible make an effort to go beyond the minimum.

> Our project is international. It is not very suitable that such a
> discrepancy exists.

Agreed, though it's always important to look at the rates rather than
the absolute numbers.

> Third, last year, some rather heated discussions occured when results
> were not fully displayed. I would be pleased that this is set before the
> election, so that editors are not surprised when results are not
> published. Hence the questions : which results should be published ?

I'd say at least
- number of votes per candidate
- number of voters per wiki project / language.

> Fourth, do you have overall some feedback to give on last year
> organisation, so that this year organisers can take them into account ?

I'd like the allowed length of the candidate statements to be clearly
defined, and the length limit to be enforced. (I suggest 1000 characters
of rendered text total.) Every candidate will of course be allowed to
link to a detailed statement without a length limit. I'd also like the
1000 character statements to be fairly free-form, i.e. every candidate
should be able to decide for themselves how to use that space.

All best,

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] Election translation and project-level coordinators

body:
We talk about multilingualism a lot, and about how many active
languages Wikipedia has...
translation of instructions for the upcoming Board elections should be
a big deal.  Any contributor who meets whatever criteria are set for
voting, should be able to vote (and to judge the available
candidates).  Translation of profiles is part of this; however for
smaller languages, perhaps that can wait on an explicit request from
an interested voter; in which case there should be a channel for such
requests.

Project-level coordinators would help quickly broaden the pool of
interested translators.
( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Election_notice_translations_2005 )

An idea for distributing the election work to users on every project:
* Identify at least one respected user from each project who can
oversee announcing the election, and help analyse votes from that
project if necessary.  For the largest projects, two or three users
might be better.
** Individual communities could be asked to nominate people for this
role; we could also tap the pool of international ambassadors (cf.
m:Wikimedia Embassy).  These users could also help coordinate
translations if one was not yet available for their project language.
* Add these users to a list of project-level coordinators, like the
list of translators/translation coordinators above
* Election Officials can work through these project-level coordinators
to reach local VPs and announcement pages, and to gather questions for
the central FAQ.

These project-level coordinators already have announcements to start
distributing -- even the mention that elections are coming up should
be translated widely.

The ideal candidates for these positions:  active, longtime editors
who are primarily active on the project in question.  It might be nice
to find such users who do not normally take part in policy or
organization, and ask them to help out.  (Note that just finding one
voter from each project will increase the project-diversity among
voters by an order of magnitude over last year).

--
+sj+


body:
Someone in Boston is publishing a book in which he would like to
include a few entire Wikipedia articles; he wrote me recently to ask
whether this had been done before, and precisely how he should go
about including the GFDL where, to clarify which sections of the
published work it covers, and how he should most perfectly comply with
the license (should he list main authors himself?  all non-anon
authors?  should he use pseudonyms or full names of both are
available? Do IP contributors ever include their real name on their
user page?  Will it look funny to list pseudonyms as authors in what
is otherwise a scholarly text?).

If there are precedents, please point me to them.  If anyone can
advise on this matter, please respond!  Perhaps I should I contact the
FSF directly, but I thought I'd check with this list first.

--SJ, who is very curious what said book is about


subject:
[Foundation-l] Re: Election translation and project-level
	coordinators

body:
On 4/30/05, Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Project-level coordinators would help quickly broaden the pool of
> interested translators.
> ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Election_notice_translations_2005 )

I realize this suggestion does not precisely address Erik's desire to
have one person organizing translations of election content; but
Aphaia is a pro at this, and already starting with pages like the one
above.

SJ


from_name: Andre Engels

body:
On 4/30/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Second, the participation rate of languages have been very diversed.
> English participants represented a huge number of voters.
> German were second and french third. Other languages had basically not
> participated but for a very few people.
> Link : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3AElection_participation2.png

I don't agree with the conclusion you draw from this graph. The
English and German Wikipedias are much larger than those in other
languages, so it's only to be expected there will be more votes coming
from those. Taking the number of active editors in April 2004 as my
measure, I find that French participation is remarkably large, but
English and German is not much more than would be expected from a fair
division over the languages. In numbers (top 16 Wikipedia languages;
numbers are number of editors, number of voters, and the second as a
percentage of the first):

French  321  89  28%
Finnish 33   5   15%
Norse 27  3  11%
Italian 69  7 10%
German 1613 145 9%
English 2746 238 9%
Dutch 191 16 8%
Chinese 143 11 7%
Esperanto 44 3 7%
Polish 124 8 6%
Swedish 98 6 6%
Danish 67 4 6%
Japanese 360 18 5%
Spanish 123 6 5%
Hebrew 69 3 4%
Portuguese 67 0 0%

Andre Engels


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: [patch] Anonymous edit warning

body:
Timwi wrote:
> Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
>
>> My users keep accidentally editing anonymously when they think they're
>> logged in; this has gotten so bad that a few of them have asked me to
>> disable anonymous edits.  Instead, I wrote the patch below my sig, set
>> $wgEnableAnonWarning to true, and put the following in
>> MediaWiki:AnonWarning:
>
>
> I notice when I'm not logged in because the "minor" and "watch this
> article" options are missing. Isn't that warning enough?

Perhaps for some, but people like me are pretty clueless sometimes. :-)

I edit anonymously all the time, by accident, and have to log in and
sign my own edits.

--Jimbo


body:
Chris Nyborg wrote:
> I agree, in principle, but I do hope that we can take his slowly.

I agree completely with this part... about taking things slowly. :-)

I would say that the analysis given here was excellent and it made me
really happy to read all about it: this is how Wikipedia works when it
is working best: people who don't agree on everything taking the time to
discuss it at great length and try to find a way to accomodate everyone,
and get a sense of the wisest way forward.

Based on this, I don't support the creation of a 3rd wikipedia unless
and until the users who want it are able to build a consensus within the
community that it is a sensible thing to do.

--Jimbo


from_name: James R. Johnson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Date Formats

body:
I was wondering more along the lines of a tag, like the geo, so that we can
format the date within the article, such as [[date:10-24-2005;us;md]] or
[[date:24-10-2005;iso;dm]] to tell the computer to display in the first case
the date October 24th, 2005 in the US format, with only the month and day,
thus "October 24" and in the second case in the ISO format, with only the
day and month, so "24 October" with the month names coming from the System
messages.

James

-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Phil Boswell
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:09 PM
To: wikipedia-l at wikipedia.org
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Date Formats

"Brion Vibber" <brion at pobox.com> wrote in
message news:426CC670.6050103 at pobox.com...
> James R. Johnson wrote:
> >             I was wondering if it were possible to have a user account
> > setting where I set the date to either mm-dd-yyyy or dd/mm/yyyy, and the
> > dates within articles show up that way across the wiki.  Some prefer one
> > way, others prefer the other way.
> Go to your preferences, click the "Date format" tab, and select your
> preferred format.

Always bearing in mind that this will only work for *linked* dates.

See here for details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%
29#Dates

HTH HAND
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]

_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections

body:
--- Sj <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> However, the beginning of my statement would be a request to re-elect
> Angela and Anthere.  We were lucky to have chosen so well last year.
> I doubt anyone could have foreseen that the Board's first year would
> proceed so smoothly, so calmly, or with so much transparency, despite
> many growing pains and opportunities for conflict and crisis.

Yep. They have both done a great job and I'd like to see them stay on. So if
they are both running and there are only two seats up for election, then I'm
not going to run and will campaign for both of them.

-- mav

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [Foundation-l] board elections


from_name: John Fader

subject: [Foundation-l] (legal) mysic.org and wikipedia's trademarks

body:
(apologies if this is the wrong list: wikilegal-l doesn't appear to
exist anymore)

Someone pointed me to http://mysic.org/ and asked how they could join
Wikipedia's "affiliates program".

Unless someone has approved this I'm guessing mysic's use of
wikipedia's non GFDL logo, and use of the trademark in this manner,
may be infringing.

--
John Fader


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: (legal) mysic.org and wikipedia's trademarks

body:
On 4/30/05, John Fader <jfader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Someone pointed me to http://mysic.org/ and asked how they could join
> Wikipedia's "affiliates program".

Sorry, that wasn't clear.  Read "someone unaffiliated with mysic asked
me how they too might join the affiliates program".

--
John Fader


from_name: admin Yellowikis

body:
Congratulations to you all - and may the wiki be with you.

On 4/30/05, Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello
>
> The organisation team will be
>
> Danny
> Britty
> Datrio
> BjarteSorensen
>
> We will also be helped by Tim Starling on the
> technical side. Bjarte will be able to assist/control
> the technical settings.
>
> Two candidates were not kept (I explain below why,
> nothing personal), and Danny suggested that we add to
> the team Britty, which I thought was a very good idea.
> Upon asking, she accepted.
>
> Why did we keep these names ? (and not others...)
>
> First, I thought a team of 3-4 was a good idea. More
> would be harder to organise.
>
> Danny was already the organiser last year, so will
> bring the weight of knowledge on top of his own
> abilities.
>
> All people kept have been active for several months at
> least, so know community dynamics.
>
> All people kept are both active on meta AND on irc,
> which unable vivid and immediate discussions.
>
> People chosen represent 4 continents, several
> languages and several projects. We hope that this will
> further stimulate the idea the project is
> international and all languages should get involved on
> meta issues.
> Britty represents the female touch and her involvement
> in translation issues will be most appreciated. Bjarte
> is a rather newcomer in the meta team (good to avoid
> formation of cabal...and renew blood). Datrio is very
> involved in wikinews (and should keep the team aware
> all projects are involved :-)).
>
> Here we are !
>
> The new team has already escaped in
> #wikimedia-conclave
> so I can not tell you more.
>
> We will keep them informed of the last basic
> requirements soon.
>
> If there is an opposition to one of those, please
> explain why now or keep your words within you forever
> ;-)
>
> Anthere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Alphax

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Expanding CheckUser permissions

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tony Sidaway wrote:
> Sean Barrett said:
>
>>>>I think that, for the sort of cases outlined below, CheckUser could
>>>>be used perhaps if the user themselves specifically said it would be
>>>>OK.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>ROTFL!  It means that we should ask every sockpuppet for permission to
>>> check to see if he is a sockpuppet. :-D
>>
>>If the sockpuppet is denying that it is a sockpuppet,
>>it should be willing to give permission, ne?
>
>
>
> Not necessarily.  Someone wrongly accused of being a sock puppet could
> well have objections to an IP check on grounds of privacy.
>
>

But how would we know if they were wrongly accused or not, unless we
check? And isn't that already covered by the privacy policy? It's not
like they have a right to deny - anyone who edits Wikipedia should
realise that they're playing Calvinball, and they're not Calvin - and
many other website respect people's privacy far less than Wikipedia
does. Anyway, with dynamic IPv4 and proxy servers, an IP can mean very
little. AOL users are probably more anonymous than logged in users.

- --
Alphax
GnuPG key: 0xF874C613
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,'
and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S.
Lewis
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body:
Magnus Manske wrote:
> Brion Vibber schrieb:
>>>Victor STINNER wrote:
>>>>I would like to know if someone is working on the bug "Article non
>>>>effa?able ? cause d'un bug" (article which can't be removed because of a
>>>>mediawiki bug). I heared that it should come from compression
>>>>trouble ...
>>>
>>>This will be fixed with some changes to the deletion backend in
>>>MediaWiki 1.5. (This isn't fully finished yet, I hope to get it done
>>>this weekend. Search the archives for my previous post on this subject.)
>
>
> While you're at it, the current 1.5 page deletion doesn't work for older
> MySQL versions that don't support the "DELETE tables FROM ..." syntax.
> Fix it or require a certain miminum version?

Now fixed.

The more sweeping changes to using a rev_deleted flag aren't going to
get done in time for 1.5, so I've fixed up the existing system.

To summarize, here's how deletion used to work:

* The cur and old rows are copied in their entirety into archive rows.
Each row contains namespace/title, full text of the revision, and the
various revision metadata (user, comment, timestamp)
* Once copied, the cur and old rows are deleted permanently from those
tables.
* On undeletion, new old and cur rows are created with the information
copied out. The new page has a new cur_id key, and each revision has a
new old_id key which doesn't match what they had before.
* Block-compression broke this scheme since the scheme requires the
presence of related rows in the old table, referenced by original old_id.

Here's how it now works:

* The revision rows are copied in their entirety into archive rows, plus
the namespace/title. This does not include the text, but does include
the original rev_id number and a reference to the text row where the
text is stored.
* Once copied, the page entry and all revision rows are deleted from
those tables. The text rows are still present, but because they are not
attached to any revisions they will not be visible except through the
Special:Undelete interface.
* On undeletion, a new page entry is created with a different page_id
number. The revision entries are recreated _with_ their original rev_id
numbers, thus preserving permanent URLs across deletion/undeletion. The
text rows just stay where they were, but now are linked up to revisions
again and so are viewable.
* Block-compression should work happily with this scheme, since its
precious text rows are not touched.

Existing entries in the archive table should continue to work after the
upgrade; since they didn't include revision id number when they were
deleted, new revision numbers and text rows will be created for them if
they get undeleted.

Since it was the bit that removed the text entries that didn't work on
MySQL 3.x, it should now be compatible again.

I haven't actually taken out the warning about block compression,
though. Will find that next...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Walter van Kalken

body:
Is this going to be a vote for another one year term?? As I feel a one
year term is to short and very bad for consistency.

I personally feel we should give Angela and Anthere another year btw.
But I am afraid we passed that station already.

Walter/Waerth


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: mailing list for users with robots

body:
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote:
>
> I'm not a Python programmer (whitespace as syntax? eww) but this
> seems a little inflammitory.  Python *is* a reasonably popular
> language, and even those who don't know it can usually read it fairly
> easily.

OK, I apologise for the inflammatory-ness. I suppose I can't really deny
that Python has at least some degree of popularity. But that wasn't my
point. I'm just sick and tired of being reprimanded for writing my own
scripts when I want to.


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: how to submit multi-patches efficiently ?

body:
Thomas Gries wrote:
> A certain enhancement patch Z is based on CVS TAG X and
> a split of Z into smaller patches p1, p2, p3 is requested,
> Z := p1 + p2 + p3
>
> What's your policy here, shall I publish
>
> * diff( X, p1 )
> * diff( X, p2 )
> * diff( X, p3 )
>
> or
>
> * diff( X, p1 )
> * diff( X + p1, p2),
> * diff( X + p1 + p2, p3)

Probably the former. The purpose of multiple smaller patches is that one
of them (not necessarily the first) can be applied without the others.
Of course, the three patches should not conflict with each other.


from_name: Angela

body:
On 5/1/05, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:

> My guess is that on the page near the beginning of the book where it
> gives copyright information, it should say "some portions of this book
> are (C) Wikipedia

It is certainly not copyright Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not even a legal
entity, and Wiki*m*edia does not claim copyright to any of the work
other than what Jimmy assigned to the Foundation in this mail:
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2003-June/010690.html>.
Generally, the copyright resides with the original holder.

Angela.


from_name: David Gerard

body:
Erik Moeller (erik_moeller at gmx.de) [050501 04:12]:

> I'd like the allowed length of the candidate statements to be clearly
> defined, and the length limit to be enforced. (I suggest 1000 characters
> of rendered text total.) Every candidate will of course be allowed to
> link to a detailed statement without a length limit. I'd also like the
> 1000 character statements to be fairly free-form, i.e. every candidate
> should be able to decide for themselves how to use that space.

So I can write a statement in 1000 Chinese characters, and get that
translated back to English... you sure about this one?

- d.