subject: [Wikitech-l] SMILES again

body:
>
> I for one don't like plugins, but agree that they *can* be of
> *additional* use. So, why not display the molecule as a PNG, then open a
> new browser window with a 3D/whatever applet when the user clicks on it?
> alt="Click here to see it in 3D (EvilJava required)." would give a hint.

That might be the best compromise.

My opinion on applets for the wiki is they're fine so long as they run in the
GNU RTE and the 'non-rich' content is still provided.

Going OT from SMILES, but for articles on, for example, AVL trees there are
quite a few good, free applets that let the user add/remove nodes from an
animated diagram. Being able to see the nodes move is a good visual aid, and
makes it a lot easier to get a feel of the overall thing than a text + static
image description.


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Fennec Foxen

subject: [WikiEN-l] Why log page views?

body:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Mark Richards
<marich712000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Why do we keep logs of page views by IP address at all?

Vandals? Vandal-bots? Sockpuppet detection? General protection against
undesirable activity? To generate pretty webalyzer statistics?


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Gabriel Beecham

subject: [Wikipedia-l] New domain request

body:
Hello all,

Could someone please create the domain for a Fanti
Wikipedia (fat.wikipedia.org, going by ISO-639-2)?

Thanks,
Gabriel Beecham

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


from_name: Martin Harper

subject: [WikiEN-l] on complaining to ISPs

body:
> Have, in the past, complaints to ISPs (about stuff like this, not death
> threats, copyvios, or kiddieporn) been effective?

I'm not aware of them being used in the past. However, I'm told that most of the IPs
being used at the moment are actually open proxies.

> I figure what the vandalbot is doing is perfectly legal, isn't spam,
> and probably doesn't rise to the level of DOS

(IANAL) It isn't legal, because it's unauthorised use of a computer system, which is
typically against anti-hacking legislation in most countries, including the USA. Anti-
hacking legislation has been successfully used against people who have "hacked" by
guessing URLs, so defacing a wiki should be cut and dry. It also falls into the category
of a DOS, I reckon, though of course that's subjective.

No doubt JamesDay or Alex756 wll be able to explain why I'm wrong on the legal issue.

-Martin


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Manuel Gomez Rojo

subject: [Wikitech-l] New translations in LanguageEs.php on meta

body:
I have translated the new namespaces. Please upload this file to the server.

I have a doubt. Once the namespaces are translated, shall we have to
move the already created pages on Category: and Template: to the new
names? Or is it automatically updated?

Thank you very much.

--
ManuelGR at es.wikipedia.


from_name: Tony

subject: [Wikitech-l] Special:Allmessages

body:
It's at:

MediaWiki:All system messages

Cheers,

Tanin

> There was Special:Allmessages page we were using for localization purposes.
> It disappeared on tr.wikipedia. What's the new link? IF there is any.


from_name: Naftali

subject: [Wikitech-l] Upload LanguageHe.php to server

body:
Who can upload LanguageHe.php from Meta to the server?

I've updated the file on Meta. Now it is up to date, and just needs to be
uploaded.

Naftali


from_name: נפתלי פלס

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Special:Allmessages

body:
Oh, no. There was a new special system page "Special:Allmessages". Now,
indeed, it disappeared.

> It's at:
>
> MediaWiki:All system messages
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tanin
>
> > There was Special:Allmessages page we were using for localization
purposes.
> > It disappeared on tr.wikipedia. What's the new link? IF there is any.


from_name: Medéric Boquien

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: UTF-8 on English Wikipedia?

body:
tic at tictric.net wrote:

> Though not being a developer I might make a suggestion on this topic.
>
> For I'm helping out with the Open Directiory Project I know they have been
> struggling with converting their databases to utf8 quite some time now.
> And strange characters keep appearing here and there.
>
> Maybe the devs of mediawiki could get some cool hints from them guys on
> what unforeseen problems might arise when converting to utf8.
>
> Cheers
> Manfred

We have already converted the french wiki to utf-8. Except some strange
characters which didn't belong to latin-1 (typically windows code page
characters), we didn't have have problems as far as i remember. The problem
with non latin-1 can even be corrected by a bot before de conversion.
As the french wiki is relatively small compared to the english wiki, we just
converted the dump. For bigger wikis i guess converting all tables, except
old, all at once can be a good idea. Then as proposed, setting a ? utf-8 ?
flag for old articles and converting them one by one, starting by the most
recent ones. The program we used to convert to utf-8 can be adapted to
convert an article instead of a dump quite easily (and it should be faster
in fact).

Cheers,

Med


from_name: Gabriel Wicke

subject: [Wikitech-l] move temporarily sysop-only on en

body:
I've done some modifications in SpecialMovepage that allow to make
moving pages sysop-only, this is activated in InitializeSettings.php for
en to stop some ongoing vandalism.

Before this was in place, all wikis and then only en were in read-only
mode for a few minutes.

Gabriel Wicke


from_name: Jimmy O'Regan

subject: [WikiEN-l] Why log page views?

body:
Mark Richards wrote:

>Why do we keep logs of page views by IP address at
>all?
>Thanks
>Mark
>
>
All web servers (at least should) do this. It's nice information to have
if you want to generate statistics, find out who is linking to you, etc


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: move temporarily sysop-only on en

body:
--- Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
> > Once again, I seem to have missed a discussion :-(
> > Where was the discussion where participants
> decided that renaming a page
> > will be a sysop only feature ?
>
> This was an emergency measure to prevent a series of
> page move
> vandalisms by a vandalbot. It was moving pages with
> huge histories,
> which may have been a cause of the site
> significantly slowing down
> last night. It was too slow at one point for sysops
> to be able to fix
> the problem as they couldn't move the pages back
> without experiencing
> timeouts. I hope you understand that emergency
> measures like this need
> to be taken quickly, and there will not always be
> time for discussion
> on this. It was not intended to be permanent, and
> has now been changed
> to allow all but the most recently registered users
> to move pages.
>
> Angela.

Oh, okay, good then :-)
Well, non english users do not know much about english
vandalism, and actually, a french user posted on the
french mailing list yesterday to ask "why the
wikipedia is in the read only mode" ?

I understand entirely emergency measures; we should
just try to explain people what is going on a minimum
though. Those not on en: just can't guess.

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from_name: Philip Newton

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: New Wikipedia language

body:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:58:01 +0800, Andrew Lih wrote:

> the latter is about visual appearance of logographic characters.

(And minor changes in vocabulary, but as I understand it, not more than
between British and American English - e.g. diannao vs. jisuanji for
computer.)

Cheers,
Philip


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Theora bitstream frozen...

body:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:22:22 +1000, Robert Graham Merkel wrote:

> On Slashdot today...
>
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/15/2250215

ITYM http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/15/2250214

(Did you copy and paste the link or re-type by hand?)

Cheers,
Philip


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Legal threats as grounds for automatic termination

in_reply_to:
<BCF4C3D7.460D%fredbaud@ctelco.net> (message from Fred Bauder on
	Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:18:48 -0600)

body:
> I want to forstall filing of law suits, especially in federal courts (which
> can be quite arbitrary). A simple, essentially bogus, legal action in a
> federal court with associated appeal can easily cost the defendant $100,000
> or more.

And banning them will prevent this how, exactly?


body:
Once again, I seem to have missed a discussion :-(

Where was the discussion where participants decided that renaming a page
will be a sysop only feature ?

Anthere

Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> I've done some modifications in SpecialMovepage that allow to make
> moving pages sysop-only, this is activated in InitializeSettings.php for
> en to stop some ongoing vandalism.
>
> Before this was in place, all wikis and then only en were in read-only
> mode for a few minutes.
>
> Gabriel Wicke


from_name: KNOTT, T

subject:
Unauthorised? You can edit this page! Re: [WikiEN-l] on
	complainingto ISPs

body:
>I think for this to have very much credability, you
>would have to remove the 'You Can Edit This Page'
>notice.
>Mark

I don't see why - people are authorized to edit, but they are not
authorized to vandalise.

Theresa


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
Banning is one suggested solution. I propose another solution which would
require as a condition of editing (possibly even of using) Wikipedia that
all disputes be submitted to our dispute resolution process, up to and
including arbitration thus keeping us out of court, except for the
possiblility of appeal of an arbitration for which purpose we should
designate a convenient court, probably the district court where Jimbo lives
in Florida.

Fred

> From: Sean Barrett <sean at epoptic.org>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:14:06 -0700
> To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Legal threats as grounds for automatic termination
>
>> I want to forstall filing of law suits, especially in federal courts (which
>> can be quite arbitrary). A simple, essentially bogus, legal action in a
>> federal court with associated appeal can easily cost the defendant $100,000
>> or more.
>
> And banning them will prevent this how, exactly?
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Chinese government lift the ban partly

body:
--- yuanml <yuanml at pku.org.cn> wrote:
> After we had sent the application to our government, today my ISP told me
> that
> the IP address 207.142.131.235, 207.142.131.236, 207.142.131.245,
> 207.142.131.246,
> 207.142.131.247, 207.142.131.248 can be access from Mainland China now.

This is definitely a good start.

-- mav

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from_name: Denni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Some sites ask users to "sign" agreements related to their activities on
the site and absolving the site owner of any damage the site may cause
the user's computer or brain. I don't recall having to agree to anything
when I first joined Wikipedia except to allow my work to be mercilessly
edited should I choose to submit any. Had I signed an agreement to
abstain from behavior that could be considered mischevious or
detrimental to the safety of Wiki and its members, on the consequence
of  (fill in here), then (a) I might be less inclined to launch vandal
bots in the first place, and if I did then (b) all the yelling to
lawyers I wanted to do would serve for nothing when I got banned for
life.

The actions the bot took yesterday did not just affect Angela, Texture,
and other users whose user pages were trashed, it affected a whole
community. The letter replacements on Town Pump and cleanup were
offensive to me, and the condition of the VfD page was such that I just
refrained from participating.

When the action of one user has an impact such as this on an entire
community, then there should be reasonable consequences. Certainly a
hard ban, whether for three months or one year or life would not be
inappropriate. It is time to kill the clowns.

Denni

--
?"The difference between extra-marital sex and extra marital sex is not
to be sneezed at." --George Will, on hyphen use
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Visit my Wikipedia user page at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3ADwindrim
Do you ICQ? I do - 276534369 Magpie


from_name: Andreas Kasenides

subject: [Wikitech-l] Greek month names again and the calendar

body:
Now that the months have been translated and put in place I realized
that for Greek things are not really so simple!! I am sure other languages
have the same problems (Spanish?). The problem is that most nouns
in Greek take a different ending depending on the grammatical case
being used. So for example you cannot simply refer to June in all cases
the same way. The correct way of doing this in Greek is (note also the
accent change):

June -- (Iou'nios) -- (Iou'n.)
15 June -- (15 Iouni'ou) -- (15 Ioun.)

I give here the correct greek form in english characters and the
correcsping
abbreviation. What it amounts to is that you cannot then do for example
{{CURRENTMONTHDAY}}_{{CURRENTMONTH}}
since it will sound and look strange. This makes setting a calendar much
more
difficult than in the English language.
Can somebody offer a suggestion in solving this conditions?
I am interested in finding what others have done in similar situations.
Thankx
Andreas
--

Andreas Kasenides
e-mail: Andreas.Kasenides_at_cs.ucy.ac.cy
<mailto:Andreas.Kasenides%20at%20cs.ucy.ac.cy>
(replace the _at_ above with @)

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from_name: Matt McLauchlin

subject: [WikiEN-l] Technical difficulty

body:
A few links to working pages don't seem to show that the pages are there.

For example, I just moved the page [[Halifax Regional Municipality, Nova
Scotia]] to [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]]. There were a plethora of links
existing to [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]]. However, they don't seem to have
"taken"; they show the question mark indicating that the page hasn't been
created. Should I click there, however, the Edit screen pops up -- with the
text of [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]] in it.

Likewise, the What Links Here page of [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]] indicates
barely any links at all -- which I know isn't true. (For example, [[Nova
Scotia]] links there, but isn't listed.)

What to do?

Matt


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [WikiEN-l] Publishing IPs (was Re: Wik's Vandalism)

body:
Martin Harper wrote:
> It would be nice if IPs of logged in edits were made public, as with logged out, as then
> individuals could take the initiative in contacting ISPs about abuse.

I think so too. I don't mind publishing the IP addresses and log entries
of the vandalbot, which is why I made this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3AVandalbot_log_entries

Jeronim also made a list of IP addresses being used by Wik:

http://wikimedia.org/IPs.txt

Wik is using open proxies, so we don't have the originating IP address.
I can however obtain log entries from back in May, these should be
sufficient for his ISP to identify him. The idea is that the ISP would
be able to log the connections from his computer to the proxies, and we
can log the connections from the proxies to us, thereby establishing
proof of identity. I'm hesitant to publish Wik's IP address from the May
logs without proof in advance that he is operating the vandalbot.
However I have released this data to a German speaker who wished to
complain on our behalf.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: tic at tictric.net

subject: [Wikitech-l] Database Error on 1.3beta3

references:
<A89D910220EF5D49B7158B9AE9B8CF9644BBB7@Eu1wam54.warley.ford.com>
	<200406160504.29285.smolensk@eunet.yu>
	<200406160510.40163.smolensk@eunet.yu>
	<200406161435.59638.smolensk@eunet.yu>
	<opr9owryx5v3cvyb@hause.local> <caqii2$3si$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
When attempting to delete a page I get an Database Error.
That's what mysql complains about.

X-----snip

DELETE FROM linkscc WHERE lcc_pageid='717')
aus der Funktion "". MySQL meldete den Fehler "1064: You have an error in
your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server
version for the right syntax to use near ')' at line 1".

x-----snap

The page still was deleted then and appears under the restoring link for
sysops.

I ran a repair command over my tables and I cannot find an very obvious
error anywhere but still that message above might tell you something.

Manfred

--
+--------------------------+
tic at tictric.net


from_name: Angela

body:
Anthere wrote:
> Once again, I seem to have missed a discussion :-(
> Where was the discussion where participants decided that renaming a page
> will be a sysop only feature ?

This was an emergency measure to prevent a series of page move
vandalisms by a vandalbot. It was moving pages with huge histories,
which may have been a cause of the site significantly slowing down
last night. It was too slow at one point for sysops to be able to fix
the problem as they couldn't move the pages back without experiencing
timeouts. I hope you understand that emergency measures like this need
to be taken quickly, and there will not always be time for discussion
on this. It was not intended to be permanent, and has now been changed
to allow all but the most recently registered users to move pages.

Angela.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Wik still has lots of clout. The arbitration committee even now is not
willing to ban him indefinitely. Still in wet noodle mode...

Fred

> From: Denni <dwindrim at shaw.ca>
> Reply-To: dwindrim at shaw.ca, English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:31:30 -0600
> To: WikiEN <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot
>
> When the action of one user has an impact such as this on an entire
> community, then there should be reasonable consequences. Certainly a
> hard ban, whether for three months or one year or life would not be
> inappropriate. It is time to kill the clowns.


from_name: Mark Richards

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Why don't we adopt a methodology more like Britanica?
We could choose editors, who would be accountable to
us, then they could write articles that we'd be
pleased with, and we could control the final version?

Oh, I remember, because this is a WIKI!
Mark

--- Denni <dwindrim at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Some sites ask users to "sign" agreements related to
> their activities on
> the site and absolving the site owner of any damage
> the site may cause
> the user's computer or brain. I don't recall having
> to agree to anything
> when I first joined Wikipedia except to allow my
> work to be mercilessly
> edited should I choose to submit any. Had I signed
> an agreement to
> abstain from behavior that could be considered
> mischevious or
> detrimental to the safety of Wiki and its members,
> on the consequence
> of  (fill in here), then (a) I might be less
> inclined to launch vandal
> bots in the first place, and if I did then (b) all
> the yelling to
> lawyers I wanted to do would serve for nothing when
> I got banned for
> life.
>
> The actions the bot took yesterday did not just
> affect Angela, Texture,
> and other users whose user pages were trashed, it
> affected a whole
> community. The letter replacements on Town Pump and
> cleanup were
> offensive to me, and the condition of the VfD page
> was such that I just
> refrained from participating.
>
> When the action of one user has an impact such as
> this on an entire
> community, then there should be reasonable
> consequences. Certainly a
> hard ban, whether for three months or one year or
> life would not be
> inappropriate. It is time to kill the clowns.
>
> Denni
>
>
> --
> ?"The difference between extra-marital sex and extra
> marital sex is not
> to be sneezed at." --George Will, on hyphen use
>
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Visit my Wikipedia user page at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3ADwindrim
> Do you ICQ? I do - 276534369 Magpie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
The argument is that it is not necessary, after all, he is gone. There is no
longer any doubt that it is him.

Fred

> From: Theresa Robinson <robinst at MIT.EDU>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT)
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot
>
> Just wondering, is the argument that the current vandalism behaviour is
> not a bannable offense, or that it isn't necessarily Wik?  If the first,
> wow is the AC ever tolerant.
>
> moink
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Fred Bauder wrote:
>
>> Wik still has lots of clout. The arbitration committee even now is not
>> willing to ban him indefinitely. Still in wet noodle mode...
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>> From: Denni <dwindrim at shaw.ca>
>>> Reply-To: dwindrim at shaw.ca, English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:31:30 -0600
>>> To: WikiEN <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>>> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot
>>>
>>> When the action of one user has an impact such as this on an entire
>>> community, then there should be reasonable consequences. Certainly a
>>> hard ban, whether for three months or one year or life would not be
>>> inappropriate. It is time to kill the clowns.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Why log page views?

body:
Mark Richards wrote:
> I can understand page EDITS, but why VIEWs?
> Mark

We keep the apache (or squid) logs. We don't filter them into edits and
views, we just compress them and stash them away. Most websites do this.
They're handy for all kinds of reasons.

-- Tim Starling


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model

body:
My point is that we are seriously considering the
viability of the "open" model. That bothers me a lot.
Mark

--- Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
> On 06/17/04  at 12:56 PM, Mark Richards
> <marich712000 at yahoo.com> said:
>
> > Why don't we adopt a methodology more like
> Britanica?
> > We could choose editors, who would be accountable
> to
> > us, then they could write articles that we'd be
> > pleased with, and we could control the final
> version?
>
> > Oh, I remember, because this is a WIKI!
>
> Your point? Wikipedia has demonstrated that,
> quantitavely, it is a viable alternative to
> Britannica but qualitatively it is a *long way* from
> being its superior. The same goes for Encarta. A
> certain modesty would be appropriate I would have
> thought, particularly in view of the ongoing
> problems with we have trolls, vandals, POV-pushers,
> and all-round morons, which, in my mind, seriously
> brings into question the viability of the "open"
> model as it is currently implemented...
>
>
> V.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

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from_name: Nikola Smolenski

subject: [WikiEN-l] Why log page views?

body:
On Thursday 17 June 2004 04:46, Mark Richards wrote:
> I can understand page EDITS, but why VIEWs?

I think it's not technically possible right now to log only edits.

You may want to fix your mailer.
You may want to fix your mailer.
You may want to fix your mailer.
You may want to fix your mailer.

> --- Fennec Foxen <fennec at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Mark
> > Richards
> >
> > <marich712000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Why do we keep logs of page views by IP address at
> >
> > all?
> >
> > Vandals? Vandal-bots? Sockpuppet detection? General
> > protection against
> > undesirable activity? To generate pretty webalyzer
> > statistics?


from_name: Theresa Robinson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Just wondering, is the argument that the current vandalism behaviour is
not a bannable offense, or that it isn't necessarily Wik?  If the first,
wow is the AC ever tolerant.

moink

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Fred Bauder wrote:

> Wik still has lots of clout. The arbitration committee even now is not
> willing to ban him indefinitely. Still in wet noodle mode...
>
> Fred
>
> > From: Denni <dwindrim at shaw.ca>
> > Reply-To: dwindrim at shaw.ca, English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:31:30 -0600
> > To: WikiEN <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> > Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot
> >
> > When the action of one user has an impact such as this on an entire
> > community, then there should be reasonable consequences. Certainly a
> > hard ban, whether for three months or one year or life would not be
> > inappropriate. It is time to kill the clowns.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Viktor Rosenfeld

subject: [Wikitech-l] Problems with mediawiki

body:
Hi,

Brion Vibber wrote:

> If you can, please try to debug this. Make sure PHP's error logging is
> on (set logging to a file in php.ini and restart apache).

I found out that my memory limit for PHP was not big enough.  It was 8M,
I set it on 32, everything works now.  Thanks.

> >2) The TeX support does not work.  I compiled texvc and put it into
> >/var/www/wiki/math directory.  Now I get the following error message,
> >when using the <math>-Tag:
> >
> >	PNG conversion failed; check for correct installation of latex,
> >	dvips, gs, and convert
> >
> >All those programs are installed and known to work.
>
> Please make sure that all programs are in the PATH that apache sees. You
> can do a putenv() in your LocalSettings.php if necessary.

I put a 'print getenv("PATH");' into LocalSettings.php and the returned
path is "/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin.  All executables are in /usr/bin
(I checked with which).

Still no luck here.
--
GnuPG-Fingerprint: E292 4D89 A5F1 16EC 2795  35AC 9162 34E8 2331 4340
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list: foundation-l

subject: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.cz

body:
--- Jan Kulveit <jk-wikifound at ks.cz> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to register domain wikipedia.cz to Wikipedia foundation,
> and wondering who to ask for permission (permission to use
> Wikipedia foundation as registrant).
>
> I'm willing to to do all the technical stuff and pay for
> registration, and set wikipedia.cz as forward to cs.wikipedia.org,
> just dont like idea of registering domain without registrants
> consent or using me as registrant.
>
> Issue is quite urgent, as Czech wikipedia get some attention in
> media, and if it wont be registred for Wikipedia, I'm sure it
> will be soon registered by some speculant (as e.g. google.cz),
> which would certianly damage Czech project.

Sounds like a good idea. You will need to contact Jason Richey at
jasonr at bomis.com to set that up.

-- mav

__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.cz


from_name: Alexander Prudnikov

subject: [Wikitech-l] full text search by wiki engine

body:
Hello.

Can you explain me in a few words how Wiki engine performs full-text search in UTF-8
encoded articles?

This is a very important problem for me. I have a database in UTF-8. MySQL prior 4.1
doesn't support full-text search in UTF-8 text. Only alpha-version of mysql
4.1 is available at the moment. So I don't want to install it.

I tried to look for the answer in the Wiki sources. But I realized
that this would take a rather long time. The only thing I understood is
that search keys are somehow stored in the table 'searchindex'.

So can anyone tell me the basic idea how Wiki performs the fulltext search?

Thanks for your time.

Best regards,
Alexander Prudnikov.


from_name: Corey Burger

subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights

body:
The thought about editors got me thinking about User rights while
still maintaining a wiki. So here is my proposal, for all to bash:

Key Rights:
Anons will always be able to edit existing article, period

User name rights:
Users can always edit pages
After (a period of time, I choose an arbitrary one say 1 week), users can
move pages and create new pages

Thus Anons cannot move or create new pages, which from my New Page watch
would probably be a good thing.

Now, yes we are restricting anon access, which is very unwiki, but they
can still edit articles, just some of the more destructive things they
could do couldn't happen.

Just my thoughts,

Corey Burger aka Burgundavia
 --


subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights


from_name: john

subject: [Wikitech-l] problems upgrading from 2.2 to the 3.0 beta

body:
Hi,

I am having problems upgrading a wiki from 2.2 to the 3.0 beta.
This wiki is located on a server where I do not have root access.  I
followed up the install procedure and all indications were that it was
successful.

After copying LocalSettings and navigating to the wiki page:
[pear_error: message="failed to open stream: Operation not permitted" code=0 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info=""]

Any ideas?

Thanks -John

PHP 4.3.5 ok
      * PHP server API is apache; ok, using pretty URLs
        (index.php/Page_Title)
      * Have XML / Latin1-UTF-8 conversion support.
      * PHP is configured with no memory_limit.
      * Have zlib support; enabling output compression.
      * Found GD graphics library built-in, image thumbnailing will be
        enabled if you enable uploads.
      * Installation directory:
        /home/.eclair/jarv/swing.funformentals.com/wiki
      * Script URI path: /wiki
        Warning: $wgProxyKey is insecure
      * MySQL error 1045: Access denied for user:
        'root at yerba.dreamhost.com' (Using password: NO)
      * Trying regular user... ok.
      * Connected to database... 4.0.20-log; enabling MySQL 4
        enhancementsWarning: $wgProxyKey is insecure
      * Database swingwiki exists
      * There are already MediaWiki tables in this database. Checking if
        updates are needed...

        ...ipblocks is up to date.
        ...already have interwiki table
        ...indexes seem up to 20031107 standards
        ...have linkscc table.
        ...linkscc is up to date, or does not exist. Good.
        ...have hitcounter table.
        Converting links table to ID-ID...
        Schema already converted
        ...have user_real_name field in user table.
        ...have special page querycache table.
        ...have objectcache table.
        ...have categorylinks table.
        Template namespace already initialised
        Initialising "MediaWiki" namespace...
      * Finished update checks.

        Creating LocalSettings.php...

        Success! Move the LocalSettings.php file into the parent
        directory, then follow this link to your wiki.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model

body:
We are in panic mode from the Vandalbot. But it can easily be defeated with
a few software changes. It creates a new user, then trashes, then creates a
new user, then trashes. What is needed is a bit of software that prevents
trashing an article by a new user. A real new user will not need to be
moving or blanking pages anyway. They are busy learning how to use the
system.

(I actually don't know exactly what Wik's bot does)

Fred

> From: Mark Richards <marich712000 at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model
>
> My point is that we are seriously considering the
> viability of the "open" model. That bothers me a lot.
> Mark


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model

body:
Are the edits on Village Pump that exchanged s for i the vandal bot?

Fred

> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:13:09 -0600
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model
>
> (I actually don't know exactly what Wik's bot does)


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: full text search by wiki engine

body:
Thanks a lot, Tim. I am glad to hear the answer so soon.

Best regards,
Alexander Prudnikov.

>> Can you explain me in a few words how Wiki engine performs full-text search in UTF-8
>> encoded articles?
>>

TS> The handling depends on the language. The basic UTF-8 handling is to
TS> convert to lower case using an internal table, then to encode any
TS> non-ASCII characters as hexadecimal using bin2hex(). The Chinese and
TS> Japanese language files have special routines to insert spaces into
TS> strings, since MySQL uses a word search and those languages don't
TS> usually use spaces.

TS> The relevant functions are doUpdate() in includes/SearchUpdate.php, and
TS> stripForSearch() in languages/LanguageUtf8.php .

TS> -- Tim Starling

TS> _______________________________________________
TS> Wikitech-l mailing list
TS> Wikitech-l at Wikipedia.org
TS> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Rowan Collins [IMSoP]

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: HTML tags: is there any reason NOT to allow <span>?

body:
> I don't like either SPAN or DIV myself.  It makes editing Wikipedia
> articles look too much like editing HTML.  I'm more HTML-literate than a
> lot of Wikipedia editors, and I usually read anything with a div in it
> as "blah blah formatting crap" and skip past it.  Granted, some of the
> same holds true for tables, even in wiki-syntax, but that's probably
> unavoidable without an wysiwyg table editor.  But I think we could at
> least limit the non-humanly-transparent stuff in the source; the move
> from divs for floating images to using the extended image syntax is a
> huge step in the right direction.

In general, I agree. I also think we should think of the wiki syntax as having parts that *resemble* HTML, rather than *incorporating* html elements.
After all, we might want to make them behave in non-HTML ways - limit them, extend them, render them in non-HTML or non-CSS skins, etc. For that
reason, it's probably sensible to keep down the number of elements that look like they're HTML tags. But that's just my view.

> I think there could be a use for semantic classes that are easily
> readable--along the lines of <math> we could have <anythingelse>, but I
> think the syntax for that has already been proposed and discussed at
> length (anyone have a pointer to that discussion?).

You're thinking of the "extension syntax" - the vote page on meta is http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extension_Syntax#Erik.27s_proposal (Erik's being
the proposal that won). However, note that these are more than just semantic classes - they are markers that essentially tell the parser to hand the
contents off to something else, and not process it itself. Semantic classes would need to be slightly more arbitrary than that, I'd have thought -
lots of them, maybe even user-defined. For that, it probably is best to stick to some kind of <X Y=Z></X> format, or similar.

> I suppose span
> could do that as well if kept to a simple class-based usage like the
> <span class=reptile> you proposed, but the word "span" isn't really
> intuitive to anyone who doesn't know HTML, and I don't see why that
> would be preferable to <reptile>blah</reptile>, which is readable by
> just about everyone (if indeed "reptile" were a sematic markup tag we
> thought useful).
>
> -Mark

Yes, "span"'s not great, and given my reservations about "including" HTML expressed above, I'd prefer to see a custom piece of markup that *generated*
span tags in normal skins. This would then give us free reign to define its use, behaviour, limits, etc. and decide how we want it to be rendered in
any given skin. Since it's only useful once you've got a system for defining what the information's actually going to be *used* for, there's no real
point in rushing in and incorporating syntax that might turn out to be unsuitable.

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
--- Theresa Robinson <robinst at MIT.EDU> wrote:
> Just wondering, is the argument that the current vandalism behaviour is
> not a bannable offense, or that it isn't necessarily Wik?  If the first,
> wow is the AC ever tolerant.

Every admin already has the authority to ban vandals. Since it is plainly
obvious that Wik has become a vandal, then there is no question that he is
banned for an indefinite period of time. This is outside the AC's jurisdiction
and I'm baffled why Fred thinks we need to rule on this.

-- mav

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Vandalbot

body:
My suggestion does not, I think, violate any of the openness of Wiki.
Clicking a button that says "I agree not to be an asshole" before Wiki
will let you create a username does one thing only - it gives Wiki a
little moral clout if someone is doing low-class stuff like blanking
admin pages. Certainly a real asshole would go ahead and click the
[agree] button anyway. It does not stop anyone from doing anything.
Analogising this to a Brittanica editorial board is not unlike
analogising a paper cut to a limb severed by a chainsaw.

Denni

--
?"The difference between extra-marital sex and extra marital sex is not
to be sneezed at." --George Will, on hyphen use
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Visit my Wikipedia user page at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3ADwindrim
Do you ICQ? I do - 276534369 Magpie


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model

body:
Yes.  But those are the kinds of things that are easy to revert, at least
when they're not in conjunction with other attacks, like the moves.

moink

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Fred Bauder wrote:

> Are the edits on Village Pump that exchanged s for i the vandal bot?
>
> Fred
>
> > From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> > Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:13:09 -0600
> > To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Viability of the open model
> >
> > (I actually don't know exactly what Wik's bot does)
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Delirium

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Fred Bauder wrote:

>Wik still has lots of clout. The arbitration committee even now is not
>willing to ban him indefinitely. Still in wet noodle mode...
>
>
Not sure if I'm one of the people you were referring to but, I
personally am fine with *indefinite* bans in cases like this, but that's
not entirely the same as *permanent* bans.  If this is indeed Wik, it
certainly seems reasonable to say he's banned until further notice, and
in fact that's probably already the case whether or not the arbitration
committee says anything.  The only way I could conceivably see him being
unbanned is if he basically apologizes and agrees to become a productive
Wikipedian again, in which case I'd be willing to see what happens.  The
chances of that seem minimal enough though that perhaps it's equivalent
to a permanent ban.

-Mark


from_name: rickm at golden.net

subject: [Wikitech-l] initial Emacs "interface" to local Wikipedia

body:
If you use Emacs and have a local Wikipedia,
you may be interested in some code I'm working on.
This code can access Wikipedia through Emacs.
I am currently extending the code into a full wkp-mode.

For more details, check my User page
at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MwZurp


from_name: The Cunctator

subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights

body:
On 6/17/04 6:20 PM, "Corey Burger" <cburger at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:

> The thought about editors got me thinking about User rights while
> still maintaining a wiki. So here is my proposal, for all to bash:
>
> Key Rights:
> Anons will always be able to edit existing article, period
>
>
> User name rights:
> Users can always edit pages
> After (a period of time, I choose an arbitrary one say 1 week), users can
> move pages and create new pages
>
> Thus Anons cannot move or create new pages, which from my New Page watch
> would probably be a good thing.
>
Anons should always be able to create pages.


subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Membership fees

body:
Hello all;

I started a little brainstorming page about membership fees here :
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_fees

Please, criticize, add, comment, have answers...

ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Membership fees


from_name: ruimu uestc

body:
Joie ! Today 6-17 at 19h20 I can open English and Chinese wikipedia main
pages! It's still a little bit slow, but, if other confirmations come, this
is a really good news, I'd say.

(gbog)

----- Original Message -----
From: "yuanml" <yuanml at pku.org.cn>
To: "wikipedia-l" <wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:14 PM
Subject: [Wikipedia-l] New info about China's blockage

> We, administrators of Chinese Wikipedia, had contacted our ISP today,
> and they confirmed the block is responsible for the Chinese government,
> and one of them can help us to send an application to the officials who
> are in charge of the blockage. We had sent the application, and now we
> are waiting for the result. If this attempt is failed, we'll try another
> way. We make efforts to change the situation at present.
>
> I had see Mav's comment at foundation-l
> (
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2004-June/000365.html ),
> I think mav's approach is thoughtful.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l


from_name: Pratyeka

subject: [Wikipedia-l] New info about China's blockage

body:
> Joie ! Today 6-17 at 19h20 I can open English and Chinese wikipedia main
> pages! It's still a little bit slow, but, if other confirmations come, this
> is a really good news, I'd say.

Confirmed from Qingdao, Shandong.  19:24.

- Pratyeka


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Chinese government lift the ban partly

body:
These are very good news :-)

yuanml wrote:
> After we had sent the application to our government, today my ISP told me that
> the IP address 207.142.131.235, 207.142.131.236, 207.142.131.245, 207.142.131.246,
> 207.142.131.247, 207.142.131.248 can be access from Mainland China now.
>
> I try it later, and I found that: all Wikipedia project except Chinese Wikipedia
> can be access on my computer now, all Wiktionay project still can't be access on
> my computer. Because China is so big a country, the ban policy may vary from one
> place to another place. Some other Wikipedian had told me that they could access
> Chinese Wikipedia now. So far it is not clear whether Chinese Wikipedia is still
> blocked. It seems that the ban policy is a temporary one.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
As people are constantly pointing out to me, admins
have the right to block accounts for simple vandalism,
not ban users. The importance is that an account that
is blocked does not 'carry over' to another 'sock
puppet' that does not vandalise. A ban would.
Mark

--- Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Theresa Robinson <robinst at MIT.EDU> wrote:
> > Just wondering, is the argument that the current
> vandalism behaviour is
> > not a bannable offense, or that it isn't
> necessarily Wik?  If the first,
> > wow is the AC ever tolerant.
>
> Every admin already has the authority to ban
> vandals. Since it is plainly
> obvious that Wik has become a vandal, then there is
> no question that he is
> banned for an indefinite period of time. This is
> outside the AC's jurisdiction
> and I'm baffled why Fred thinks we need to rule on
> this.
>
> -- mav
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

__________________________________________________
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from_name: yuanml

body:
After we had sent the application to our government, today my ISP told me that
the IP address 207.142.131.235, 207.142.131.236, 207.142.131.245, 207.142.131.246,
207.142.131.247, 207.142.131.248 can be access from Mainland China now.

I try it later, and I found that: all Wikipedia project except Chinese Wikipedia
can be access on my computer now, all Wiktionay project still can?t be access on
my computer. Because China is so big a country, the ban policy may vary from one
place to another place. Some other Wikipedian had told me that they could access
Chinese Wikipedia now. So far it is not clear whether Chinese Wikipedia is still
blocked. It seems that the ban policy is a temporary one.


body:
After we had sent the application to our government, today my ISP told me that
the IP address 207.142.131.235, 207.142.131.236, 207.142.131.245, 207.142.131.246,
207.142.131.247, 207.142.131.248 can be access from Mainland China now.

I try it later, and I found that: all Wikipedia project except Chinese Wikipedia
can be access on my computer now, all Wiktionay project still can't be access on
my computer. Because China is so big a country, the ban policy may vary from one
place to another place. Some other Wikipedian had told me that they could access
Chinese Wikipedia now. So far it is not clear whether Chinese Wikipedia is still
blocked. It seems that the ban policy is a temporary one.


from_name: Evan Prodromou

subject: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia-mode

body:
I just wanted to make sure, before you went any further, that you'd seen
these pages:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_editor_support
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_editor_support#Emacs
 http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/WikiModeDiscussion

It'd be a shame to start this stuff from scratch.

~ESP

--
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org>
Wikitravel (http://wikitravel.org/)
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from_name: Brion Vibber

references:
<E1Bb5Yx-0003M6-9g@smtp.golden.net>
	<1087515322.1622.6.camel@venus> <87k6y5d2vp.fsf@golden.net>

body:
Rick wrote:
> Gabriel Wicke <lists at wikidev.net> writes:
>>On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 18:40 -0400, rickm at golden.net wrote:
>>To get the source of a page, you can also use the action=raw method.
>>Example url:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw
>
>
> Interesting. This URL gets XML which I may find useful later on.
> However, I'm aiming for something that would get the wiki-markup.
> Is there an action that would get the wiki-markup? I just tried
> "&action=markup" which doesn't work.

The above URL *does* get the wiki-markup.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights

body:
The cutoff point is one that can be debated separately, the main issue to
create a barrier so that new users can get to know the system before they
start new pages. It is far easier to revert edits made the existing
article, as they are on peoples watchlists.

Corey

--


subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Change of characterset on nl:wiktionary

body:
LS,
I have read many messages about changing en:wikipedia to the next
characterset. I would really love to see the nl:wiktionary changed. I
have some friends who speak Russian, Farsi and Armenian who are willing
to check the words I have at the moment. As I cannot create these words,
I am waitiing for the conversion..

As there are not that many people who will notice nl:wiktionary to be
off line for some time and as we have only 607 words and a lot of other
stuff, it should not take too long to change nl:wiktionary

Thanks.
  GerardM


list: wiktionary-l

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Change of characterset on nl:wiktionary


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Membership fees

body:
A clarification of membership is to be found here
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_FAQ

Some of the points are clear, other points are still undefined. We would
be happy to have some feedback for these points.

For example, how do membership in local chapters meet with membership to
the Foundation ?

Anthere wrote:
> Hello all;
>
> I started a little brainstorming page about membership fees here :
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_fees
>
> Please, criticize, add, comment, have answers...
>
> ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Membership fees


subject: [Wikitech-l] updatedb sucks

body:
I've moved the updatedb cronjob from daily to monthly on coronelli,
browne, and maurus [squids]. These have lots o little files and it takes
a long time, heavily loading the machines all the while.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Rick

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Wikipedia-mode

in_reply_to:
<1087518003.2667.7.camel@unicorn.bad-people-of-the-future.san-francisco.ca.us>
	(Evan Prodromou's message of "Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:20:04 -0400")

body:
Evan Prodromou <evan at wikitravel.org> writes:
> I just wanted to make sure, before you went any further, that you'd seen
> these pages:
> ...
> It'd be a shame to start this stuff from scratch.

Thanks for the tip! I have been doing some light coding at getting
something displayable. But Chong Yidong's wikipedia-mode.el is much
more advanced than what I've started to do. You've just saved me a lot
of work.

So, I'm going be trying out Chong's code and will almost certainly
build my efforts on top of wikipedia.el.


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Membership fees

body:
A good deal of the initial membership fee page was moved to the
membership FAQ, so please check both.

And I would be happy that people comment on those quietly, assume good
faith from me, and remember that english is not my mother language so
that I may not be always clear. I would be happy that people keep in
mind I am working toward setting an international Foundation, not an
american one, so I will really try very hard for this to be a reality.

Thanks

Anthere wrote:
> A clarification of membership is to be found here
> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_FAQ
>
> Some of the points are clear, other points are still undefined. We would
> be happy to have some feedback for these points.
>
> For example, how do membership in local chapters meet with membership to
> the Foundation ?
>
>
>
> Anthere wrote:
>
>> Hello all;
>>
>> I started a little brainstorming page about membership fees here :
>> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_fees
>>
>> Please, criticize, add, comment, have answers...
>>
>> ant
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Membership fees


body:
Gabriel Wicke <lists at wikidev.net> writes:
> On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 18:40 -0400, rickm at golden.net wrote:
> To get the source of a page, you can also use the action=raw method.
> Example url:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw

Interesting. This URL gets XML which I may find useful later on.
However, I'm aiming for something that would get the wiki-markup.
Is there an action that would get the wiki-markup? I just tried
"&action=markup" which doesn't work.

Anyway, Evan Prodromou just told me about wikipedia.el
which is definitely the direction that I'm heading in.
However, I working towards something that is more emacs-centric
and will allow browsing/editing of Wikipedia in a fashion
that entirely bypasses the browser.

But, first, I need to digest this wikipedia.el.


from_name: Jan Kulveit

subject: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.cz

body:
Hi,

I want to register domain wikipedia.cz to Wikipedia foundation,
and wondering who to ask for permission (permission to use
Wikipedia foundation as registrant).

I'm willing to to do all the technical stuff and pay for
registration, and set wikipedia.cz as forward to cs.wikipedia.org,
just dont like idea of registering domain without registrants
consent or using me as registrant.

Issue is quite urgent, as Czech wikipedia get some attention in
media, and if it wont be registred for Wikipedia, I'm sure it
will be soon registered by some speculant (as e.g. google.cz),
which would certianly damage Czech project.

Jan Kulveit


subject: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.cz


from_name: phil hunt

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Viability of the open model

body:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:13:09 -0600, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>We are in panic mode from the Vandalbot. But it can easily be defeated with
>a few software changes. It creates a new user, then trashes, then creates a
>new user, then trashes. What is needed is a bit of software that prevents
>trashing an article by a new user. A real new user will not need to be
>moving or blanking pages anyway. They are busy learning how to use the
>system.

Some web login systems oblige a user to type in some letters or
numbers from a graphic which is designed to be readable by a human
but not by a program. In this way, programs that attempt to
automate registration can be defeated.

>(I actually don't know exactly what Wik's bot does)

Me neither.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk)


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Alexander Prudnikov wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Can you explain me in a few words how Wiki engine performs full-text search in UTF-8
> encoded articles?
>
> This is a very important problem for me. I have a database in UTF-8. MySQL prior 4.1
> doesn't support full-text search in UTF-8 text. Only alpha-version of mysql
> 4.1 is available at the moment. So I don't want to install it.
>
> I tried to look for the answer in the Wiki sources. But I realized
> that this would take a rather long time. The only thing I understood is
> that search keys are somehow stored in the table 'searchindex'.
>
> So can anyone tell me the basic idea how Wiki performs the fulltext search?
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Best regards,
> Alexander Prudnikov.

The handling depends on the language. The basic UTF-8 handling is to
convert to lower case using an internal table, then to encode any
non-ASCII characters as hexadecimal using bin2hex(). The Chinese and
Japanese language files have special routines to insert spaces into
strings, since MySQL uses a word search and those languages don't
usually use spaces.

The relevant functions are doUpdate() in includes/SearchUpdate.php, and
stripForSearch() in languages/LanguageUtf8.php .

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Gabriel Wicke

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: HTML tags: is there any reason NOT to allow
	<span>?

references:
<20040613141431.CAE6A1AC0251@mail.wikimedia.org>
	<40CE4067.6090801@hackish.org>  <cash3v$lrq$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 17:33 +0100, Rowan Collins [IMSoP] wrote:

> Yes, "span"'s not great, and given my reservations about "including" HTML expressed above, I'd prefer to see a custom piece of markup that *generated*
> span tags in normal skins. This would then give us free reign to define its use, behaviour, limits, etc. and decide how we want it to be rendered in
> any given skin. Since it's only useful once you've got a system for defining what the information's actually going to be *used* for, there's no real
> point in rushing in and incorporating syntax that might turn out to be unsuitable.
>

I think just using span with locked down properties should be fine- we
can still exchange it with something else during rendering if that
becomes necessary. That's what we already do with <center>- it's
replaced with a div class="center" and some css.

Gabriel Wicke


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
Fred Bauder wrote:
> The argument is that it is not necessary, after all, he is gone. There is no
> longer any doubt that it is him.
>
> Fred

Is it not important to send a clear message that this is not to be taken lightly?

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Technical difficulty

body:
This seems to have sorted itself out now, but just so's you know, there seem to be long-standing
issues with links not being updated properly in the database. Often, making a minimal edit to the
page in question clears them up; I'm not sure if there's any other known circumstance under which
they "come to life"....

Matt McLauchlin wrote:
> A few links to working pages don't seem to show that the pages are there.
>
> For example, I just moved the page [[Halifax Regional Municipality, Nova
> Scotia]] to [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]]. There were a plethora of links
> existing to [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]]. However, they don't seem to have
> "taken"; they show the question mark indicating that the page hasn't been
> created. Should I click there, however, the Edit screen pops up -- with the
> text of [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]] in it.
>
> Likewise, the What Links Here page of [[Halifax, Nova Scotia]] indicates
> barely any links at all -- which I know isn't true. (For example, [[Nova
> Scotia]] links there, but isn't listed.)
>
> What to do?
>
> Matt

--
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]


from_name: Mark Pellegrini

body:
What Ant and Mav are talking about is called a Captcha -  "completely
automated public Turing test to tell computers and humans apart")

We have an article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha

--Mark


body:
On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 18:40 -0400, rickm at golden.net wrote:
> If you use Emacs and have a local Wikipedia,
> you may be interested in some code I'm working on.
> This code can access Wikipedia through Emacs.
> I am currently extending the code into a full wkp-mode.
>
> For more details, check my User page
> at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MwZurp

To get the source of a page, you can also use the action=raw method.

Example url:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw

Gabriel Wicke


from_name: wiki pedista

body:
mav wrote:

-----

--- Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
> What I want to do is to create an agreement that all
disputes will be
> handled through our arbitration procedure, thus
precluding any legal action
> other than possible appeal of an arbitration
decision.  I don't think folks
> realize that we can legally do that.

That is already part of the submission standards that
Alex drafted a while ago.
We should look back into that and make it official
(along with the terms of use
he wrote up as well).

-- mav

-------

I believe the matter of this thread is general enough
that should be continued either on wikipedia-l, or
even
better, on foundation-l, in case the agreement was
required in all of the foundation projects.

I agree that we really should bring back the matter of
the submission standards and terms of use, including
the arbitration clauses, as a
condition for editing. Once this is agreed upon,
would it be conveninet to requiere all
registered users to sign once the
agreement as a condition for their continuing editing,
or is it enough with telling something like "edition
of a page means acceptance of the conditions"?

AstroNomer

__________________________________
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subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
On 06/18/04 at 09:31 AM, David Gerard said:

> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?

Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get. But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work, thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

V.

Since this is the foundation-l mailing list, just a thought.

This comment may be true for the english wikipedia. Perhaps beginning to be true for the german one. It is not for all the other projects.

I also think new users are synonym of potential quality, as they are synonym of more diversity. And there are few things as magic for a new comer, than to click on a red link and start a new page. This is very precious.
Moving a page, however, is not something most newbies start with. And it does not hold the same magic. And it implies more work to fix.

Still, current problematic issues are due to a user who is absolutely not a new user, but who in particular use some weaknesses (perhaps) of our log-in system.

---------------------------------
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subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
On 06/18/04 at 09:31 AM, David Gerard said:

> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?

Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get. But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work, thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

V.

Since this is the foundation-l mailing list, just a thought.

This comment may be true for the english wikipedia. Perhaps beginning to be true for the german one. It is not for all the other projects.

I also think new users are synonym of potential quality, as they are synonym of more diversity. And there are few things as magic for a new comer, than to click on a red link and start a new page. This is very precious.
Moving a page, however, is not something most newbies start with. And it does not hold the same magic. And it implies more work to fix.

Still, current problematic issues are due to a user who is absolutely not a new user, but who in particular use some weaknesses (perhaps) of our log-in system.

---------------------------------
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subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
On 06/18/04 at 09:31 AM, David Gerard said:

> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?

Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get. But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work, thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

V.

Since this is the foundation-l mailing list, just a thought.

This comment may be true for the english wikipedia. Perhaps beginning to be true for the german one. It is not for all the other projects.

I also think new users are synonym of potential quality, as they are synonym of more diversity. And there are few things as magic for a new comer, than to click on a red link and start a new page. This is very precious.
Moving a page, however, is not something most newbies start with. And it does not hold the same magic. And it implies more work to fix.

Still, current problematic issues are due to a user who is absolutely not a new user, but who in particular use some weaknesses (perhaps) of our log-in system.

---------------------------------
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subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
Viajero <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:
On 06/18/04 at 09:31 AM, David Gerard said:

> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?

Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get. But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work, thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

V.

Since this is the foundation-l mailing list, just a thought.

This comment may be true for the english wikipedia. Perhaps beginning to be true for the german one. It is not for all the other projects.

I also think new users are synonym of potential quality, as they are synonym of more diversity. And there are few things as magic for a new comer, than to click on a red link and start a new page. This is very precious.
Moving a page, however, is not something most newbies start with. And it does not hold the same magic. And it implies more work to fix.

Still, current problematic issues are due to a user who is absolutely not a new user, but who in particular use some weaknesses (perhaps) of our log-in system.

---------------------------------
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from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
Creation of an account could be conditioned on acceptance.

Fred

> From: wiki pedista <wikipedista at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: wikipedista at yahoo.com, English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
> To: wikien-l <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Legal threats as grounds for automatic termination
>
>
> mav wrote:
>
> -----
>
> --- Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>> What I want to do is to create an agreement that all
> disputes will be
>> handled through our arbitration procedure, thus
> precluding any legal action
>> other than possible appeal of an arbitration
> decision.  I don't think folks
>> realize that we can legally do that.
>
> That is already part of the submission standards that
> Alex drafted a while ago.
> We should look back into that and make it official
> (along with the terms of use
> he wrote up as well).
>
> -- mav
>
> -------
>
>
> I believe the matter of this thread is general enough
> that should be continued either on wikipedia-l, or
> even
> better, on foundation-l, in case the agreement was
> required in all of the foundation projects.
>
> I agree that we really should bring back the matter of
> the submission standards and terms of use, including
> the arbitration clauses, as a
> condition for editing. Once this is agreed upon,
> would it be conveninet to requiere all
> registered users to sign once the
> agreement as a condition for their continuing editing,
> or is it enough with telling something like "edition
> of a page means acceptance of the conditions"?
>
> AstroNomer
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] Vandalism by banned user

body:
In case anyone still has any lingering doubts about whether it was right
to ban Wik...

If he's only willing to contribute on his own terms, and if he reacts to
a "time-out" by running a computer program that automatically vandalizes
our encyclopedia database,

... THEN it's fairly obvious that he never had a congenial purpose in
mind. He was like those people who post whatever they want to newsgroups
or blogs. And if others object they just say "Nyaah nyaah, can't stop
me!"

Now of course when Bilbo was trying to rescue the dwarves from Giant
Spiders in "The Hobbit", he did a bit of taunting and teasing. There's a
place for everything, I guess. But the spiders had waylaid the travelers
and intended to eat them; a far cry from the, er, ecology of Wikipedia.

Uncle Ed


body:
phil hunt wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:13:09 -0600, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>
>>We are in panic mode from the Vandalbot. But it can easily be defeated with
>>a few software changes. It creates a new user, then trashes, then creates a
>>new user, then trashes. What is needed is a bit of software that prevents
>>trashing an article by a new user. A real new user will not need to be
>>moving or blanking pages anyway. They are busy learning how to use the
>>system.

Yes, phil is correct.

I think this is a little step that would not cost a lot. It would not
bother a human too much and add a layer of protection.
During registration, display a little image, with an number in it
(something simple, number 1 to 9 randomly), and ask the user to enter
this number in an empty field.


from_name: tic at tictric.net

subject: [Wikitech-l] Database Error on 1.3beta3

references:
<A89D910220EF5D49B7158B9AE9B8CF9644BBB7@Eu1wam54.warley.ford.com>	<200406160504.29285.smolensk@eunet.yu>	<200406160510.40163.smolensk@eunet.yu>	<200406161435.59638.smolensk@eunet.yu>	<opr9owryx5v3cvyb@hause.local>
	<caqii2$3si$1@sea.gmane.org> <opr9qhljnm3p5rup@mail.mislik.com>
	<40D1FD82.4050302@pobox.com>

body:
> tic at tictric.net wrote:
>> When attempting to delete a page I get an Database Error.
>> That's what mysql complains about.
>>
>> X-----snip
>>
>> DELETE FROM linkscc WHERE lcc_pageid='717')
>> aus der Funktion "". MySQL meldete den Fehler "1064: You have an error
>> in  your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL
>> server  version for the right syntax to use near ')' at line 1".
>
> This was a bug caught after beta3. Remove the ) from that query or grab

	I've done so already. Thanks.

> REL1_3_0beta4 from CVS (not in a release package yet).
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: Andrew Lih

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: New Wikipedia language

references:
<BAY14-F7zK0Y62DszTv0001f5c6@hotmail.com>
	<8b722b8004061522132468096a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8b722b8004061522132468096a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
	<2ed171fb040615225897ff476@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b92d01tiiv9hqpqublvfpg9d1c8su9kkg@4ax.com>

body:
Yes, however that difference in usage isn't specific to simplified vs.
traditional.  Even in the traditional Chinese domain, one can use
either term.

It seems the community places hope that a technical solution will
eventually be found so that there is automatic mapping of characters
so that something less than a complete fork is necessary.  This will
happen only after ZH is accessible again and Chinese-knowledgeable
developers can pitch in.

-Andrew

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:01:11 +0200, Philip Newton <philip.newton at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:58:01 +0800, Andrew Lih wrote:
>
> > the latter is about visual appearance of logographic characters.
>
> (And minor changes in vocabulary, but as I understand it, not more than
> between British and American English - e.g. diannao vs. jisuanji for
> computer.)
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


body:
Yuanml, definitely good news and congratulations!

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:02:44 +0800, yuanml <yuanml at pku.org.cn> wrote:
>
> After we had sent the application to our government, today my ISP told me that
> the IP address 207.142.131.235, 207.142.131.236, 207.142.131.245, 207.142.131.246,
> 207.142.131.247, 207.142.131.248 can be access from Mainland China now.
>
> I try it later, and I found that: all Wikipedia project except Chinese Wikipedia
> can be access on my computer now, all Wiktionay project still can't be access on
> my computer. Because China is so big a country, the ban policy may vary from one
> place to another place. Some other Wikipedian had told me that they could access
> Chinese Wikipedia now. So far it is not clear whether Chinese Wikipedia is still
> blocked. It seems that the ban policy is a temporary one.
>
>
>
>
> noname - 1K Download
>


body:
Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> writes:
> Rick wrote:
>> Gabriel Wicke <lists at wikidev.net> writes:
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw
>> ... gets XML ... [want] an action that would get the wiki-markup?
> The above URL *does* get the wiki-markup.

My mistake. I forgot to enclose the URL in quotes.
This command does indeed get the wiki-markup:

  $ wget "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw"

Thanks.


from_name: Trocheris Yann

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Breton language wikipedia

body:
There was a br.wikipedia.org page during a few days,

where has it gone ??

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subject: [Wikitech-l] bypassing browser to upload Emacs edits

body:
Gabriel Wicke <lists at wikidev.net> writes:
> To get the source of a page, you can also use the action=raw method.
> Example url:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&action=raw

So if I wanted to look at the wiki-markup in Emacs,
I can issue:

  (let ((article "Edit: Apple"))
    (if (get-buffer article) (kill-buffer article))
    (switch-to-buffer article)
    (insert (shell-command-to-string
             (format "wget -q -O - \"%s?title=%s&action=raw\""
                     "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml"
                     "Apple"))))

Now let's say that I edited the buffer in Emacs
and, then, wanted to promote the edits.
Let's say that I saved the buffer in "Apple.wiki".

Is there some kind of command-line operation
that I can issue that would be equivalent
to clicking "Save page" during an edit operation?

I'd also want some way to specify the "Edit summary" field
and indicate if the operation is a minor edit.
Hmm, there is also specifying my User name which, I assume,
would be even trickier.

Well, if I could get past all that,
could I issue some kind of command-line operation
that would be equivalent to presing the "Show preview" button?
Then, for instance, my firefox web-browser would come up
with my edits already present in the edit-box.


from_name: john

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: problems upgrading from 2.2 to the 3.0 beta

body:
Hi Ashar,

If you are referring to the wiki/config and the wiki/ directory, yes -
both have full write access for the apache web user.   Are there any
other permission changes that need to be made?

Any clue as to what file this error is referring to?

[pear_error: message="failed to open stream: Operation not permitted"
code=0 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info=""]

Thanks -John

On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 04:41, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
> john wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am having problems upgrading a wiki from 2.2 to the 3.0 beta.
> > This wiki is located on a server where I do not have root access.  I
> > followed up the install procedure and all indications were that it was
> > successful.
> >
> > After copying LocalSettings and navigating to the wiki page:
> > [pear_error: message="failed to open stream: Operation not permitted" code=0 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info=""]
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks -John
> >
> >
> > PHP 4.3.5 ok
> <snip>
> >         Success! Move the LocalSettings.php file into the parent
> >         directory, then follow this link to your wiki.
>
> Hello John,
>
> Can you check your directory config got enough right for the user apache
> is running under ? It might use write access.


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights

body:
Corey Burger (cburger at victoria.tc.ca) [040618 08:21]:

> The thought about editors got me thinking about User rights while
> still maintaining a wiki. So here is my proposal, for all to bash:
> Key Rights:
> Anons will always be able to edit existing article, period
> User name rights:
> Users can always edit pages
> After (a period of time, I choose an arbitrary one say 1 week), users can
> move pages and create new pages
> Thus Anons cannot move or create new pages, which from my New Page watch
> would probably be a good thing.

I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

- d.


subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights


from_name: Jimmy O'Regan

subject: [Wikipedia-l] fablis.com steals contents

body:
Magnus Manske wrote:

> Example:
>
> http://online-textbooks.fablis.com/index.php/Biochemistry_-_Metabolism_and_energy
>
> from wikibooks, with their copyright (*and* GFDL notice, strangely),
> no wikipedia backlink etc.
>
> Can someone get the usual mail rolling?
>
> Thanks,
> Magnus

What's even more strange is that they have the "Powered by MediaWiki"
logo present. Looks like an honest mistake to me.


body:
Jimmy O'Regan wrote:

> Magnus Manske wrote:
>
>> Example:
>>
>> http://online-textbooks.fablis.com/index.php/Biochemistry_-_Metabolism_and_energy
>>
>> from wikibooks, with their copyright (*and* GFDL notice, strangely),
>> no wikipedia backlink etc.
>>
>> Can someone get the usual mail rolling?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Magnus
>
>
> What's even more strange is that they have the "Powered by MediaWiki"
> logo present. Looks like an honest mistake to me.

On looking further, they seem to be using content from all of the
WikiMedia projects: Wikipedia, Wikiquote, Sep11, Wikibooks, Wikisource.


body:
Fred Bauder wrote:
 > The argument is that it is not necessary, after all, he is gone. There
 > is no longer any doubt that it is him.

Well let me clear that up. It's necessary, that's why I blocked his
known accounts. We're restricting the actions that can be taken with new
accounts, and the actions that can be taken with existing accounts are
sufficiently dangerous to warrant blocking.

> We are in panic mode from the Vandalbot. But it can easily be defeated with
> a few software changes. It creates a new user, then trashes, then creates a
> new user, then trashes. What is needed is a bit of software that prevents
> trashing an article by a new user. A real new user will not need to be
> moving or blanking pages anyway. They are busy learning how to use the
> system.
>
> (I actually don't know exactly what Wik's bot does)

We already put in a filter for page blanking, that's why he switched to
letter replacement.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Magnus Manske

body:
Example:

http://online-textbooks.fablis.com/index.php/Biochemistry_-_Metabolism_and_energy
from wikibooks, with their copyright (*and* GFDL notice, strangely), no
wikipedia backlink etc.

Can someone get the usual mail rolling?

Thanks,
Magnus


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: updatedb sucks

body:
Brion Vibber wrote:
> I've moved the updatedb cronjob from daily to monthly on coronelli,
> browne, and maurus [squids]. These have lots o little files and it takes
> a long time, heavily loading the machines all the while.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Hello brion,

Maybe a nice of 19 and not scanning the squid cache files it could help
a bit as well ?

--
Ashar Voultoiz


body:
john wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am having problems upgrading a wiki from 2.2 to the 3.0 beta.
> This wiki is located on a server where I do not have root access.  I
> followed up the install procedure and all indications were that it was
> successful.
>
> After copying LocalSettings and navigating to the wiki page:
> [pear_error: message="failed to open stream: Operation not permitted" code=0 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info=""]
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks -John
>
>
> PHP 4.3.5 ok
<snip>
>         Success! Move the LocalSettings.php file into the parent
>         directory, then follow this link to your wiki.

Hello John,

Can you check your directory config got enough right for the user apache
is running under ? It might use write access.

--
Ashar Voultoiz


body:
That did the trick, thanks!
It might be a good idea to add this to the INSTALL file for people who
don't have write access to the /tmp directory.  I don't recall having
this problem in 1.2.2

Thanks for the quick response -John

On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 10:00, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 09:10 -0400, john wrote:
>
> > [pear_error: message="failed to open stream: Operation not permitted"
> > code=0 mode=return level=notice prefix="" info=""]
>
> Sounds as if you don't have write permissions to /tmp. The parsed
> template is stored there usually. You could adjust line 72 in PHPTAL-NP-
> 0.7.0/libs/PHPTAL.php to something else than /tmp/, another solution
> would be
>
> if (strtoupper(substr(PHP_OS, 0, 3)) == "WIN") {
>     define('PHPTAL_DEFAULT_CACHE_DIR', getenv("TMP") . "\\");
> } else {
>         global $wgTmpDirectory;
> 	define('PHPTAL_DEFAULT_CACHE_DIR', $wgTmpDirectory);
> }
>
> Gabriel Wicke
>


from_name: Ian Mackinnon

subject: [Wikipedia-l] zh-tw.wikipedia.org

body:
I don't know how to reply to the list thread but I really like Mark's idea
about splitting zh.wikipedia.org into zh-cn.wikipedia.org and
zh-tw.wikipedia.org. This would really solve the problem of navigation
conflicts. I wasn't suggesting this for political reasons but for practical
reasons since the writing scripts conflict with each other.

Whoever is able to split the portal into 2 categories, please do so.

Thanks!
- Ian

-----
Mark's comment:
Interlanguage links are already done with [[zh-tw:]] and [[zh-cn:]], so
perhaps we could simply split zh.wikipedia.org into zh-cn.wikipedia.org
and zh-tw.wikipedia.org, with zh.wikipedia.org being a disambiguating
portal?  Of course, this is more up to Chinese-speakers than it is to
myself; just a suggestion that would be consistent with our current
usage.  Having separate interlanguage links going to one encyclopedia
that is effectively written in a mixture of two writing systems that are
often not mutually intelligible is more than a little bit odd.

-Mark

_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger


from_name: The Cunctator

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
On 6/18/04 4:36 AM, "Viajero" <viajero at quilombo.nl> wrote:

> On 06/18/04  at 09:31 AM, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> said:
>
>> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
>> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
>> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?
>
> I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?
>
> Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important
> to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get.
> But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work,
> thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the
> demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start
> thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

This argument was made when we have 20k articles, & 100k...and will be made
when we have 1 million articles....

Wikipedia is not something which needs to be protected from the outside. The
only genuinely weak point is the database infrastructure, but considerations
on that behalf shouldn't be confused with policy decisions on mission
purpose.


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
On 6/17/04 8:06 PM, "Rowan Collins [IMSoP]" <siu01rc2 at rdg.ac.uk> wrote:

> Fred Bauder wrote:
>> The argument is that it is not necessary, after all, he is gone. There is no
>> longer any doubt that it is him.
>>
>> Fred
>
> Is it not important to send a clear message that this is not to be taken
> lightly?

Not really; although it is psychologically satisfying to the punisher to
parade victims through the town square, in a society which affords
anonymity, there is no scientific evidence (which I'm aware of) that such
punishments deter other crimes.

Rather, it is likely to inspire other action, by setting up a challenge,
throwing down the gauntlet.

It is better to treat such action with the contempt and disdain it deserves.
After slapping away the fly buzzing around your head, you don't trumpet its
demise. It is unworthy of notice.

It is best to solve problems and move on. At the same time, it is important
not to bury history, but simply to keep a moderate tone and recognize that
in the big scheme of things (i.e. that Wikipedia is just in its beginning
stages now) most of the crises of today will be soon forgotten and seen as
no more than annoyances.


from_name: Theresa Robinson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wik's Vandal Bot

body:
> Not really; although it is psychologically satisfying to the punisher to
> parade victims through the town square, in a society which affords
> anonymity, there is no scientific evidence (which I'm aware of) that such
> punishments deter other crimes.
>
> Rather, it is likely to inspire other action, by setting up a challenge,
> throwing down the gauntlet.
>
> It is better to treat such action with the contempt and disdain it deserves.
> After slapping away the fly buzzing around your head, you don't trumpet its
> demise. It is unworthy of notice.
>
> It is best to solve problems and move on. At the same time, it is important
> not to bury history, but simply to keep a moderate tone and recognize that
> in the big scheme of things (i.e. that Wikipedia is just in its beginning
> stages now) most of the crises of today will be soon forgotten and seen as
> no more than annoyances.

I absolutely agree.  Fix the vandalbot problems and otherwise ignore them.
This does not deserve large amounts of attention.  We don't want people
thinking they can start huge crises within the community.

moink


from_name: Viajero

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights

body:
On 06/18/04  at 09:31 AM, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> said:

> I know a few users who started by creating a page, because they knew
> something about something that didn't have an article. Generally as an
> anon user. Why should they bother waiting a week? What's in it for them?

I would turn the question around: what is in it for us?

Maybe three years ago, when the project was just starting and it was important to build momentum, we needed every contributor and contribution we could get. But now we have ~300k articles, many of which still need lots of work, thousands of regular users, and a database which is unable to keep up with the demand, no matter how much hardware we throw at it. Maybe we should start thinking in terms of quality rather than sheer quantity.

V.


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: User Rights


subject: [Wikitech-l] SMILES again

body:
Replying to myself, I think I found a way to render SMILES:
1. SMILES into OpenBabel (http://openbabel.sourceforge.net/), output CML
(chemical markup language)
2. CML into BKchem (http://zirael.org/bkchem/), output SVG
3. SVG to PNG (somehow...)

Magnus

Magnus Manske wrote:

> I just found another GPL tool, which can convert SMILES (among other
> things) into other formats:
>    http://openbabel.sourceforge.net/
> Is any of the *output* formats of that software convertable into PNG
> through other GPL software?
>
> Magnus


from_name: Camille Constans

subject: [Wikitech-l] Server downtime

body:
We plan some server downtime On Saturday at 18:00 UTC

The wiki should be read-only during this time, with a backup from 3 days ago.

We'll put ariel, the new db server, in production. And we'll keep Suda as db slave server.

Shaihulud


from_name: Neil Harris

subject: [Wikitech-l] SMILES again

body:
Magnus Manske wrote:

> I just found another GPL tool, which can convert SMILES (among other
> things) into other formats:
>    http://openbabel.sourceforge.net/
> Is any of the *output* formats of that software convertable into PNG
> through other GPL software?
>
> Magnus
>
Try this:

http://xdrawchem.sourceforge.net/

which can read MDL and emit PNGs, is GPL-licenced, and cross-platform.
It also says "Can also read and write any format supported by the
current release of OpenBabel." and since this includes SMILES, this may
mean this is a single -component solution (or just that it calls
OpenBabel externally to do the work).

I've also found this interesting set of lecture notes for background on
chemical informatics:

http://www.indiana.edu/~cheminfo/C371/c371barnard.ppt

(which opens just fine in OpenOffice.org)

-- Neil


subject: [Wikitech-l] SMILES again

body:
Magnus Manske wrote:

> Replying to myself, I think I found a way to render SMILES:
> 1. SMILES into OpenBabel (http://openbabel.sourceforge.net/), output
> CML (chemical markup language)
> 2. CML into BKchem (http://zirael.org/bkchem/), output SVG
> 3. SVG to PNG (somehow...)
>
> Magnus

Apache Batik will render SVG to PNG: it's a lot of infrastructure for
doing just one part of this job, though.

But see my previous note re XDrawChem, which seems much more
full-featured. I've dropped a note to Brian Herger, the author of
XDrawChem, asking him whether XDrawChem will do what we want, or where
we should be looking if it won't.

Anyway, we now know the code is out there, and there are multiple open
source / free software choices available.

-- Neil


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights

body:
--- Corey Burger <cburger at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> Key Rights:
> Anons will always be able to edit existing article, period
>
>
> User name rights:
> Users can always edit pages
> After (a period of time, I choose an arbitrary one say 1 week), users can
> move pages and create new pages
>
> Thus Anons cannot move or create new pages, which from my New Page watch
> would probably be a good thing.

We may have to eventually do this. But we absolutely need to make sure we only
do it if/when it is needed - just as we had to do when we protected the Main
Page on the English Wikipedia. I would like to see some statistics on the
number of junk and copyvio pages anons and new users create each day to see if
we have reached that point yet. Some measure of how long it takes for almost
all of that to get fixed would also be needed in order to run some cost/benefit
analysis.

Wiki is a means to an end, not an end in itself. But we should nevertheless try
to preserve as much openness as is useful for as long as it is practical.

We cannot assume that our current way of doing things will scale indefinitely -
there is only a small percentage of the world's population who would ever care
to become Wikimedians. After we have reached a significant percentage of them
it will become increasingly difficult to keep up with those who would rather
vandalize or contribute crap. In the meantime we should put the onus of proof
on those who want to lock things down. If what they say is true, then they
should be able to prove it fairly easily.

-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

__________________________________
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subject: [Foundation-l] User Rights


from_name: Rick

subject: [WikiEN-l] Spam protection filter

body:
What the h*ll is the "Spam protection filter"?  I tried to list [[Doggystyle Records]] to [[Wikipedia:Cleanup]] and got shuttled off to [[Spam protection filter]], which says:

The page you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to an external site.

You might want to check the following regular expression for patterns that are currently blocked:

/((http:\/\/(www\.|)(emmss.com|paidsurveysforall.com|hukuki.net|webrank.cn|gerhard.paducktions.net|emmss.net|mongolie.mn))|DeleteMeShizhao|ChinapediaIsNotFree)/

Return to Main Page.

I tried to post this question on the Village Pump and got the same error.  There is nothing in what I posted that matches the above expression, and is this filter going to prevent ALL external links?

RickK

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from_name: Erik Zachte

subject: [Wikitech-l] still no webalizer stats

body:
Still no webalizer stats since May 27 (en: May 20)
Anyone?

Erik Zachte


subject: [WikiEN-l] Help?

body:
Please see [[Talk:Doggystyle Records]].

RickK

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subject: [Wikitech-l] bypassing browser to upload Emacs edits (bots?)

in_reply_to:
<87vfhpnic3.fsf_-_@golden.net> (rickm@golden.net's message of
	"Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:47:40 -0400")

references:
<E1Bb5Yx-0003M6-9g@smtp.golden.net>
	<1087515322.1622.6.camel@venus> <87vfhpnic3.fsf_-_@golden.net>

body:
Rick <rickm at golden.net> writes:
> Is there some kind of command-line operation
> that I can issue that would be equivalent
> to clicking "Save page" during an edit operation?
> ... etc

I just had an idea about how to do Save-page from command-lines
(and, ultimately, within Emacs).

Aren't there various bots doing updates to Wikipedia?
I know there are server-side bots but aren't there also
some client-side bots (including bots used by trolls :-|)?
Just how do the client-side bots work?

I'm starting to go through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots
but I'm not too clear on what code a bot actually uses.
If there are easy/preferred/clean approaches,
I'd appreciate some URLs (or search keywords).

Or am I mistaken on what bots do and how they do their work?
Do bots bypass the browser and, essentially, operate on the command-line?
I've never used a bot before so I'm pretty clueless about them.

By the way, I am not interested in creating a bot.
I just want to promote my edits from within Emacs.
That is, I want to give Emacs users the same abilities
that, apparently, bots have.


from_name: KNOTT, T

subject: [WikiEN-l] Vandalism by banned user

body:
>If he's only willing to contribute on his own terms, and if he reacts
to
>a "time-out" by running a computer program that automatically
vandalizes
>our encyclopedia database,

 I'm just correcting factual errors here -

It wasn't the 7 day ban by the AC that prompted Wik to run the script,
it was the continual creation of subpages to Wik's user page by certain
people who were trying to taunt him. The subpages in question were being
deleted by various admins but that wasn't good enough for Wik.

>... THEN it's fairly obvious that he never had a congenial purpose in
mind.

I can't agree with that. Wik certainly made a whole lot of very good
edits and wrote some very good articles. I'm sure that when he joined
Wikipedia he did so with the same altruistic intentions as everyone
else.

Note also that the vandalbot is attacking user pages, user:talk pages,
policy pages, and pages in the wikipedia namespace. It is not(as far as
I've seen anyway) attacking articles in the main namespace.

Theresa