from_name: Kirill Lokshin

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
On 7/6/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting one:
>
>   http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060705/dcw049.html?.v=57
>
> Now, how do we keep the well-intentioned clueless from alienating
> them? Particularly given the directions in the second-last para are
> very nice and really just the thing.

The press release seems to be confused on certain points.  At first
they discuss the creation of an article-space page (which seems to be
up for deletion at the moment, but never mind that).  They then
instruct people to:

"First create or update your own Wiki page, with a short description
of your mission or capability and a short description of where you fit
into the OSINT world. Then a discreet link to your commercial home
page. Once your Wiki page exists the title of that page becomes an
automatic Wiki link whenever it is inserted on any Wiki page with two
[[brackets]], and should be inserted with a short descriptive line at
least once in each grouping above."

Are they talking about user pages and linking them in article-space?
Or separate articles for each participant with links to their
commercial pages?

--
Kirill Lokshin


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: John Lyden

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
On 7/6/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> They are talking about encouraging self-interested people to come in and
> spam us with nonsense, to be honest.  The entire thing is a huge mess.
>
> --Jimbo

so other than having us subjected to this spam, what other recourse do we have?

--
John Lyden - rasputinaxp at gmail.com
"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to
live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same
time..." -Kerouac


from_name: Puppy

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
John Lyden wrote:
> On 7/6/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
>> They are talking about encouraging self-interested people to come in and
>> spam us with nonsense, to be honest.  The entire thing is a huge mess.
>>
>> --Jimbo
>
> so other than having us subjected to this spam, what other recourse do we have?
>
Same as always. Afd, userfy, welcome messages, and lots of links and
explanations of and to WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR.
-kc-


subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
John Lyden wrote:
> On 7/6/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
>> They are talking about encouraging self-interested people to come in and
>> spam us with nonsense, to be honest.  The entire thing is a huge mess.
>>
>> --Jimbo
>
> so other than having us subjected to this spam, what other recourse do we have?
>
OTOH, it appears he called you, Jimbo? Or is he referring to someone
else as "your President"?
Keep, Steele Stands Back I've just talked with your President, we will
do a press release retracting or modifying my call for inputs, I have
changed my web site to stiff vendors, and I will wait to learn more in
Boston. This is my last entry here. Best wishes to all of you.Robert
Steele 20:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Open_source_intelligence"


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.7.0 release candidate

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Earlier today I branched off 1.7 in our subversion repository, and made a
release candidate:

http://svn.wikimedia.org/snapshots/mediawiki-1.7.0rc.tar.gz

It's marked as just 1.7.0 internally. If there's no reports of major breakage by
tomorrow morning I'll re-zip it as 1.7.0 final. I'd appreciate if a few people
could test installation and upgrading, which don't receive as much testing from
Wikipedia as other code.

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEraZFwRnhpk1wk44RAufHAKC+5HTqyUk4BlolsCXipMSbrjOAbACfXtg6
sZ4oQ5H84wpZLVYIJ3ESzec=
=N84K
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from_name: BJörn Lindqvist

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral swarming teenage vanity spam

body:
On 7/5/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> Erik wrote:
> >The page was now deleted, in spite of no consensus, and in spite of a
> >very large amount of blog coverage and a newspaper report in Politiken
> >about it. Whether you like it or not (and I don't), it does meet the
> >WP:WEB criteria. This is part of a worrying and growing trend among
> >admins to do whatever they feel like when they close an AfD.
> >Overriding community opinion should only be done in exceptional
> >circumstances and with clear documentation of one's reasoning, which
> >can then be taken into policy discussions. Otherwise you end up with
> >completely arbitrary enforcement, and an ever growing tension between
> >admins and regular users.
>
> Is every random spammer who hits 'edit' automatically a member of the
> 'community'?

Yes, the applicable guideline is "assume good faith." Until and unless
they prove themselves to be "random spammers," please treat them with
respect.

> Why would we give automatic suffrage to folks who have not yet
> demonstrated a significant degree of support or even understanding of
> the goals of the project?

Because they are giving up their free time trying to help the project.
That demonstrates their support.

--
mvh Bj?rn


from_name: liu haokai

subject: [Wikitech-l] Newbie SMTP troubles

body:
I have the same problem, maybe it relate to to the way that wiki process
email addresses stored in UTF-8. I am not sure if my mail server support the
UTF-8 email adress.

2006/6/13, Fred LaCroix <tenguspam at yahoo.com>:
>
> Good question but yes 192.168.1.2 has an SMTP server on it.  I've
> confirmed functionality by relaying an email message through it using
> Outlook.
>
>   I'll try setting display_errors to On and see what I get.
>
>   Thanks for your help.
>
>
> Platonides <Platonides at gmail.com> wrote:
>   Seems obvious but... do you have a configured and running SMTP server on
> 192.168.1.2 ?
>
> Teh blank page is due to _some error_ Your php configuration is such that
> when an error is found it doesn't reveal anything. More difficult to
> debug,
> but more secure as intruders don't know the error message. Perssonally,
> i'd
> low it.
>
> "Fred LaCroix" a ?crit:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've got Mediawiki 1.6.6 running on a Windows XP SP2 system with Apache
> > 2.2, php 5.1.4, PEAR's Mail package ver. 1.1.10 and MySQL 5.0.21. This
> PC
> > is being run behind a firewall and will be accessed only by internal
> > users. The system is up and running and I can login, create new
> > discussions, edit...etc but when I try to "Confirm your email address"
> by
> > pushing the "Mail a confirmation code" button, all I get is a blank page
> > and no email is sent.
> >
> > My localsetting.php file contains the following:
> >
> > $wgEnableEmail = true;
> > $wgEnableUserEmail = true;
> >
> > $wgEmergencyContact =
> > "wikiadminl at internaltest.com";
> > $wgPasswordSender = "wikiadmin at internaltest.com";
> > $wgSMTP = array(
> > "host" => '192.168.1.2',
> > "IDHost" => 'internaltest.com',
> > "port" => "25",
> > # 'auth' => false,
> > "auth" => true,
> > "username" => 'wikiadmin',
> > "password" => 'BlahBlah'
> >
> > For "host" I have tried the ip address of the system, the machine name,
> > smtp.machine name, smpt.machine name.FQDN but no luck.
> >
> > My php.ini has:
> >
> > [mail function]
> > ; For Win32 only.
> > SMTP = 192.168.1.2
> > smtp_port = 25
> >
> > ; For Win32 only.
> > sendmail_from = wikiadmin at internaltest.com
> >
> > Any suggestions that could be offered would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Liviu Andronic

subject: [Wikipedia-l] mo - let's make a point ...

body:
On 7/5/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I doubt anyone will fall for that -- both of those sections are
> written by people who advocate for the closing.

... quoting western academic, neutral sources.  (Encyclopedia Britannica,
harvard.edu: Elizabeth Anderson, etc).

By the way Sabine,
>
> I see you are interested in doing research on this topic. As most
> translators will probably tell you, the actual differences between
> Moldovan and Romanian are negligible. The issue here is mostly one of
> culture and alphabet -- in Transnistria and sometimes in other areas,
> Moldovan is written using Cyrillic. Prior to 1989, Moldovan was
> written in Cyrillic in the entire Moldova as well.
>
> Mark
>
> On 05/07/06, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If anyone is still interested to make some research on this matter, this
> > information on meta<
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_reliable_sources_say_about_Moldovan_Language
> >could
> > prove interesting. This
> > summary on meta<
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_decision_makers_need_to_know
> >could
> > also make things clearer.
> >
> > On 7/4/06, Sabine Cretella <sabine_cretella at yahoo.it> wrote:
> > >
> > > Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just
> search
> > > for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ...
> well
> > > ...
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
Liviu


from_name: Mark Gallagher

body:
G'day Daniel S,

>  >I think the problem with DRV and other processes that reivew
> content is  the entire premise.
>  >I reviewed a backlog previously to discover a  template. To my
> horror,  it noted:
>
>  >"The community is interested in process not content".
>
>  >This is madness. - Randall Brackett
>
> I am most definitely not a lawyer, but I think it's exactly the same
> distinction as the distinction between a _trial_ and an _appeal._

No.  Well, yes.  But no.

DRV has been legitimately accused of endorsing bad decisions on that
grounds that "process was followed".  The people arguing that DRV should
do such a thing are either:

a) Process wonks, who can therefore be ignored (or, preferably, locked
    in a padded cell for their own comfort and safety)
b) People who have confused Wikipedia with Real Life.

DRV is *not* an appeals court.  The rules that apply to appeals courts
in the USA, Canada, Australia, and I assume practically everywhere else,
do *not* apply to DRV.  We need to remember that.  DRV is not, it's
true, in the business of providing a venue for AfD Take Two, but neither
is it totally uninterested in the outcome provided process is followed.

DRV is a safeguard to ensure that AfD gets the right *result*.  That's
all it's for --- *not*, I repeat *not*, simply to ensure AfD gets the
right *process*.  Process being followed is a good indication that the
AfD result was good; but it shouldn't blind us to potential errors.

> (And in the legal world there are also phenomena such as jury
> nullification and rogue judges...)

We have them on Wikipedia, too.  Witness the Jack Thompson OFFICE action
and certain admins.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse


from_name: louty koné

subject: [Wikitech-l] KONE Louty

body:
Je vous remer?i pour tous les messages que je re?oi; cela me donne une possibilit? d'apprendre
certaines choses que je ne percevais pas bien
mer?i


from_name: Nick Jenkins

subject: [Wikitech-l] ParserTests code coverage report for Parser.php

body:
I've had a go at increasing the code coverage of the current ParserTests.

The starting coverage was 82.62%. I've managed to increase by a bit
over 4%, to 86.69%, with 17 new tests. I've heard people remark before
that as your coverage gets closer to 100%, increasing it gets
exponentially harder, and having tried it, I'm now inclined to agree.
;-) Of course, if anyone can improve on this coverage, then please do
so. Enabling some options such as using tidy & raw mode HTML for some
tests would get the percentage up, but I was just looking at ways of
increasing it without changing the configuration.

In the process of adding this I found one minor issue with E_ALL
enabled (logged as bug 6560).

The parserTests diff for these tests is located at:
http://files.nickj.org/MediaWiki/coverage/parsertests-code-coverage.txt
 ; Could some kind soul please check it in?

I'm also not 100% sure of correctness of the "!! result" sections - I
made a best effort attempt at what I think the results should be, but
please feel free to alter the results as you see fit.

All the best,
Nick.

> Nick Jenkins wrote:
> > Decided to try have a play with a code coverage tool today, and
> > pointed it at parser.php whilst parserTests.php was being run.
> >
> > The purpose of doing this is try and see if the code coverage of the
> > parserTests are good - and they are, at around 83% coverage - and also
> > to try and indicate if there are any areas that might potentially
> > benefit from a few more tests.
>
> Awesome!
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)


from_name: mboverload

subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiEN-l] Keep and Relist

body:
Last time I checked a Wikipedia IS forever.

On 7/6/06, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2006, at 4:34 AM, Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
>
> > but the idea that a Wikipedia page is
> > forever is very deeply ingrained.
>
> So was my idea that you should never throw a book away. That idea has
> diminished in power as unsalable books have vastly increased in
> number. We don't need to keep stuff around that no one is interested
> in anymore.
>
> Fred
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Angela : your resignation

body:
I apology I did not take the time to comment sooner.
Away from home, little computer time.

I would like to say wholeheartedly to Angela that I
thank her for all the time and work she put in the
organisation. Even though we did not always agree on
all matters, I was happy to share the responsability
and workload of board member with her. She was simply
someone I could trust to have the interest of the
Foundation at heart, rather of her own interests. She
was someone who deeply respected the pact of
representation with the community and of support to
editors of all projects and all languages.

It seems being on the board is very consuming. Not
only time consuming but energy consuming. I respect
very much Angela for deciding to let another
fresh-volunteer join the board. I respect her doubly,
because I think this shows that the position of board
member should not be seen as a position of power, to
hold on against winds and storms or simply to get on
as a goal. I believe the Foundation needs stability,
but also highly diverse human input, with new ideas
and different methods to reach its mission.

I recently proposed to the board to set up an advisory
board. If the board approves this creation, I'll be
happy that Angela be its first member. Meanwhile, I
hope an Australian chapter will soon born ;-)

Thanks

Ant

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: Stephen Bain

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Where is WikiMedia 1.7 ? Have you a link for the
	download ????

body:
On 7/6/06, Ulisse Savi <ulisavi at tin.it> wrote:
> Yes. But in this link i have found only MediaWiki 1.4/1.5/1.6 and following
> the links of the site, at the moment, i have not found the 1.7. Version.
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki

The latest snapshot release is 1.6.7. However you can get the latest
version directly from Subversion (Mediawiki doesn't use CVS anymore).

See this page for instructions:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download_from_SVN

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


subject: [WikiEN-l] Ken Lay's death prompts confusion on Reuters

body:
On 7/6/06, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net> wrote:
>
> Besides, they don't cover Pokeman nearly as well
> as we do.

Nor The Price is Right.

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


from_name: Michael Snow

body:
Mark Gallagher wrote:

> G'day Daniel S,
>
>> (And in the legal world there are also phenomena such as jury
>> nullification and rogue judges...)
>
> We have them on Wikipedia, too.  Witness the Jack Thompson OFFICE
> action and certain admins.

Pardon me, but what exactly are you referring to here?

--Michael Snow


from_name: homey2005 at sympatico.ca

subject: [WikiEN-l] Israeli Apartheid debate and proposals

body: At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Central_discussions/Apartheid a series of competing proposals have been made on how to deal with various articles on modern uses of the word "apartheid", namely [[Israeli apartheid]], [[gender apartheid]], [[sexual apartheid]], [[Crime of apartheid]] and [[global apartheid]] and also the articles [[Apartheid outside of South Africa]] and [[Apartheid (disambiguation)]]. The proposals vary from merging various articles (particularly Israeli apartheid) to leaving the articles in their current state. The debate and voting has been dominated by various interests - it would thus be best for the community if a broader cross section of people including disinterested and neutral parties, reviewed the proposals and had their say.


from_name: poore5 at adelphia.net

body:
Of course getting broad community input is good. But I wish that you would participate in the proposed mediation. IMO, achieving consensus WITH other interested parties is key to solving the issues related to these articles.
My 2 cents worth.
Sydney Poore
Georgetown, KY

---- homey2005 at sympatico.ca wrote:
> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Central_discussions/Apartheid a series of competing proposals have been made on how to deal with various articles on modern uses of the word "apartheid", namely [[Israeli apartheid]], [[gender apartheid]], [[sexual apartheid]], [[Crime of apartheid]] and [[global apartheid]] and also the articles [[Apartheid outside of South Africa]] and [[Apartheid (disambiguation)]]. The proposals vary from merging various articles (particularly Israeli apartheid) to leaving the articles in their current state. The debate and voting has been dominated by various interests - it would thus be best for the community if a broader cross section of people including disinterested and neutral parties, reviewed the proposals and had their say.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


body:
> From: <poore5 at adelphia.net>

> Of course getting broad community input is good. But I wish that >you would participate in the proposed mediation.

I'm considering it but I think the process really needs input from editors who do not have strong feelings on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


body:
---- homey2005 at sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> > From: <poore5 at adelphia.net>
>
> > Of course getting broad community input is good. But I wish that >you would participate in the proposed mediation.
>
> I'm considering it but I think the process really needs input from editors who do not have strong feelings on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

>From my way of thinking, the situation needs both. The core people involved in the conflict need to work out some aspects of the situation among themselves through mediation. AND, a broader segment of the community can weigh in on the issues.

Sydney Poore
Georgetown, KY


from_name: Nathan

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
I concur. I can't make heads nor tails of it myself.

- Nathan

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Jimmy Wales wrote:

> They are talking about encouraging self-interested people to come in and
> spam us with nonsense, to be honest.  The entire thing is a huge mess.
>
> --Jimbo


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
Interesting one:

   http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060705/dcw049.html?.v=57

Now, how do we keep the well-intentioned clueless from alienating
them? Particularly given the directions in the second-last para are
very nice and really just the thing.

- d.


from_name: Fred Bauder

body:
On Jul 6, 2006, at 6:58 PM, geni wrote:

> On 7/7/06, homey2005 at sympatico.ca <homey2005 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> From: <poore5 at adelphia.net>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Of course getting broad community input is good. But I wish that
>>> >you would participate in the proposed mediation.
>>>
>>
>> I'm considering it but I think the process really needs input from
>> editors who do not have strong feelings on the Israeli-Palestinian
>> conflict.
>>
>
> Both of them?
>
> --
> geni

No, just the other one. I'm already involved. ~~~~


from_name: Gregory Szorc

body:
> It's marked as just 1.7.0 internally. If there's no reports of major
> breakage by
> tomorrow morning I'll re-zip it as 1.7.0 final. I'd appreciate if a few
> people
> could test installation and upgrading, which don't receive as much testing
> from
> Wikipedia as other code.
>
>
>
I did not experience any show-stoppers when upgrading from 1.6.7.  I'm still
testing all of my extensions for compatibility though...

Thank you for requiring PHP 5.  Hopefully this will some way help convince
the lethargic hosting providers to upgrade.  PHP 5 will be two years old
next Thursday.  Yeesh.

Also, Brion, check out
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFMLGEN/mail/1355.  Basically,
'require_once' isn't as fast as 'require'.  Also, given the extreme amount
of 'require' statements in MW and the fact that it is now PHP 5, have you
ever thought of using the __autoload() function?  See
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.autoload.php

Gregory Szorc
gregory.szorc at gmail.com


body:
G'day geni,

> On 7/6/06, Mark Gallagher <m.g.gallagher at student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
>> DRV is a safeguard to ensure that AfD gets the right *result*.  That's
>> all it's for --- *not*, I repeat *not*, simply to ensure AfD gets the
>> right *process*.  Process being followed is a good indication that the
>> AfD result was good; but it shouldn't blind us to potential errors.
>
> An  argument that fails when you consider you only need an absolute
> majority to keep something deleted on DRV. If it is to be more than a
> process review area then that is illogical.

I'll admit, it relies on people not abusing it.  But then, so does a lot
of Wikipedia.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse


from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Gregory Szorc wrote:
> Thank you for requiring PHP 5.  Hopefully this will some way help convince
> the lethargic hosting providers to upgrade.  PHP 5 will be two years old
> next Thursday.  Yeesh.

Next you'll be asking us to upgrade our home computers off Windows 98! ;)

> Also, Brion, check out
> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFMLGEN/mail/1355.  Basically,
> 'require_once' isn't as fast as 'require'.  Also, given the extreme amount
> of 'require' statements in MW and the fact that it is now PHP 5, have you
> ever thought of using the __autoload() function?  See
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.autoload.php

As it happens, MediaWiki 1.7 uses autoloading extensively for just this reason.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Minh Nguyen

subject: [Wikitech-l] String function #sub

body:
Claudi Meneghin wrote:
> Hi,
>   are you able, please, to forecast when the string function #sub is activated? I would need it to standardise the calendar pages at Lombard wikipedia: in other words the introduction of all day-pages would have exactly the same code, and the number of days from the beginning of the year would be automatically calculated, and the appropriate month-template would be correctly placed. The number of days lacking to the end of the year would be calculated as well, of course.
>   If it is at short term, I will go on anyway, warning users that 'a funcionality of the page is yet to be activated'... or something like.
>   Many thanks.
>   Sincerely yours,
>   Claudi

In the meantime, you might want to take a look at the Vietnamese
Wikipedia's calendar template
<http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti%C3%AAu_b%E1%BA%A3n:L%E1%BB%8Bch_th%C3%A1ng_n%C3%A0y>,
which I revamped today to automatically generate the appropriate
calendar for a given month and year, using a convoluted formula based on
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculating_the_day_of_the_week>. See
<http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_th%C3%A1ng_7> for the code that we ended
up using in the entries themselves.

--
Minh Nguyen <mxn at zoomtown.com>
AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: mxn at myjabber.net; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/


from_name: Brianna Laugher

subject: [Foundation-l] English Wikipedia on DVD

body:
Hello,

it exists: http://wikipedia.linux.co.nz/index.php/Main_Page

I found out (by accident!) that someone had burnt WP onto DVD and had
given copies to some schools that were interested. He is interested in
knowing what the WM people think of what he is doing. Below are some
of his comments. BTW this is all happening in Australia.

cheers,
Brianna
en.wp,commons,meta:User:pfctdayelise

[him:]
> > um , yeah, hi.  the disk is being uploaded to a mirror which you can get a bittorrent feed from shortly.
> >
> > As the database is a myisampack compressed file on a read-only filesystem , I had to change the wikimedia code so that any insert , delete or update code would not be run , else you'd get errors.
> >
> > I don't know much about the relationship between wikimedia and wikipedia , but I'm concerned about what I'm doing is going to piss off anyone.

[I told him it wasn't because the GFDL encourages re-use]
[...]

yeah , I've just put on a complete copy of the DB. its one of the last
ones done in SQL format before they went for their xml dump .. so its a
bit old , but I don't forsee many problems updating it to a newer db.

the main screen that appears is pretty much like the one that shows up
on the main wikipedia site , except it doesn't do any extra searching of
articles... which is handy , because it's not exactly fast searching for
an article.

[me: (they=WMF)]
> The main concern for them is filtering out
> copyright violations, junk and incorrect information, as you may have
> noticed these things are not entirely infrequent occurrences. :) The

ooh yeah :)

[me:]
> idea is that once they make a CD version they could be sued as
> "publishers" for copyright violation etc, but running a website is
> somehow not being a "publisher".... just wondering if you have any
> concerns about that? (being sued)

never thought about it.  you're scaring me :)

[me:]
> For example on English Wikipedia a lot of pages have tags like
> {{hoax}} or {{unverified}} or {{clean-up}} - did you do any kind of
> exclusion at all?

no , none.  straight DB dump , plus as many images as I could fit in the
time I had on a single sided single layer dvd. I plan to go dual layer ,
just as soon as I rustle up the money for a burner , more ram.. mare
hdd..

[...]

I'm aware of the german dvd, but I've never seen it IRL.  Didn't know
they did any filtering.  My thoughts on filtering is that if I do any ,
the trust in what I've done would go down , and I'd rather have a db
with some crap in it , than one that noone wants to "trust".

[...]

the disk should be downloadable in a few days , its just waiting to be
mailed to canberra and stuck in LA's server.

the link you were posted is slow because its using mysql on my box at
home , but the mediawiki install is on a hosted box in NZ.. so its a bit
slow , and I don't have the cash to pay for hosting anywhere else, so it
could easily drown in a slashdotting.  But please let the wikimedia
people know.

The ISO isn't exactly release ready or anything , I've tried to put
logos in and and stuff , but it needs polish , I was hoping that people
who download it can give me a hand with making it better.  there's a lot
of optimising that can be done to make it faster/better.


subject: [Foundation-l] English Wikipedia on DVD


subject: [Wikitech-l] Template Languages

body:
Felipe Sanches wrote:
> Hi, wikitech-l!
> I am interested in using a Template language in mediawiki extensions.
> I ve been learning PHPTAL, but It seems to me that it was used in mw
> someday in the past and is not used anymore... am I wrong?

We used PHPTAL for the MonoBook skin in MediaWiki 1.3, but later converted it to
a custom PHP class. The problems with PHPTAL were basically:

1) It requires compiling the template to a PHP file. This PHP file gets stored
in a global temporary directory and is writable to the web server -- there were
very frequent failures on systems with restricted permissions, and it made the
wiki extra vulnerable to partially compromised servers. (For instance, a worm
that struck shared servers running some unrelated insecure web application would
find the compiled MonoBook template and overwrite it with a "your server has
been hacked" message.)

2) The original version of PHPTAL worked only on PHP 4, and a rewritten version
was being worked on for PHP 5. They were not quite compatible with each other,
requiring a lot of hacks to work consistently at the time.

3) Not having to bundle two external bits of software is kind of nice.

> What options do I have, then?

Whatever works for you. PHPTAL, Smarty, roll your own...

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Cobb

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
Puppy wrote:
> Same as always. Afd, userfy, welcome messages, and
> lots of links and explanations of and to WP:V, WP:NPOV,
> and WP:NOR. -kc-

Weeks of AFDs and sockspuppets/newbies, followed by
DRVs. full of socks/newbies, followed by idiot admins
undeleting the articles and putting them on DRV for
yet more weeks of socks/newbie infested discussions
and stupid editors who haven't read the policies etc etc
etc etc.

Yet... of course... vandalism doesn't work on a WIki
because it's as easy to fix as it was to vandalise in first
place... isn't it?

Wasn't that the Wikipedia war-cry once?


from_name: Jesse W

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
Sigh.  And now for
"never-attribute-to-malice-what-can-be-explained-by-stupidity,-part
-2"...

On Jul 6, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Cobb wrote:
> Jesse W wrote:
>> And, for "vandalism", it still is.  For misguided people - it has
>> always been discussion until either the misguided people
>> change their minds or enough other people get fed up, then
>> more or less forceful requests to leave.
>
> There are no such things as page creation vandals?
Of course there are - creating a page is a type of editing, and, like
all types of edits, creating pages can be done in bad faith with intent
to damage the 'pedia - that is vandalism.  Typical examples include
creating pages that say "Joe is gay!", or creating pages containing
subtle hoaxes - you can't do that accidentally, or due to
misunderstanding, only by actively intending to damage the 'pedia.

However, many bad pages created are not created in bad faith - the
people who create them are not vandals.  People who think the
encyclopedia would benefit from an article on their novel theory of
history, or their new company, or this fascinating new website they
just came across - *are* *not* acting in bad faith, and *are* *not*
intending to damage the 'pedia (although, in fact, they are), and so
*are* *not* vandals.  You seemed to be implying they were.

>  How
> interesting. Do please expand on this fascinating new
> insight into what is currently happening on WIkipedia?
I just did.  Hopefully you will be able to respond to it with some
actual attention this time.

Jesse Weinstein


subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
Jesse W wrote:
>And, for "vandalism", it still is.  For misguided people - it has
>always been discussion until either the misguided people
>change their minds or enough other people get fed up, then
>more or less forceful requests to leave.

There are no such things as page creation vandals? How
interesting. Do please expand on this fascinating new
insight into what is currently happening on WIkipedia?


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-07-07

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Running test Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test Template with thumb image (wiht link in description)... FAILED!
Running test message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test Language converter: output gets cut off unexpectedly (bug 5757)... FAILED!
Running test HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!
Running test 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line... FAILED!
Running test HTML Hex character encoding.... FAILED!
Running test dt/dd/dl test... FAILED!

Passed 407 of 424 tests (95.99%) FAILED!


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
On 7/7/06, Cobb <sealclubbingfun at googlemail.com> wrote:
> There are no such things as page creation vandals? How
> interesting. Do please expand on this fascinating new
> insight into what is currently happening on WIkipedia?

They exist but uncomon. New editors an IPs can't create new pages and
WP:CSD takes care of most of the rest.

--
geni


body:
On 7/7/06, homey2005 at sympatico.ca <homey2005 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > From: <poore5 at adelphia.net>
>
> > Of course getting broad community input is good. But I wish that >you would participate in the proposed mediation.
>
> I'm considering it but I think the process really needs input from editors who do not have strong feelings on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Both of them?

--
geni


subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiEN-l] Keep and Relist

body:
On 7/7/06, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> Last time I checked a Wikipedia IS forever.
>

Was this pre or post oversight?

--
geni


from_name: Felipe Sanches

subject: [Wikitech-l] Template Languages

body:
Hi, wikitech-l!
I am interested in using a Template language in mediawiki extensions.
I ve been learning PHPTAL, but It seems to me that it was used in mw
someday in the past and is not used anymore... am I wrong?

What options do I have, then?

thanks, Felipe Sanches


from_name: Ulisse Savi

body:
> I did not experience any show-stoppers when upgrading from 1.6.7.  I'm
> still
> testing all of my extensions for compatibility though...
>
> Thank you for requiring PHP 5.  Hopefully this will some way help convince
> the lethargic hosting providers to upgrade.  PHP 5 will be two years old
> next Thursday.  Yeesh.

Yes. The problem is that it not require PHP 5. It require 5.1... It is a
little hard with  PHP requirment. ... I'm in battle to upgrade PHP from 5.04
to 5.1.4 . ... With PHP 5.04 IT NOT WORK ? Is it possible to use PHP 5.0.4
AND NOT 5.1.4 ?

P.S. Another hysterical post ... ...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Szorc" <gregory.szorc at gmail.com>
To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.7.0 release candidate

>> It's marked as just 1.7.0 internally. If there's no reports of major
>> breakage by
>> tomorrow morning I'll re-zip it as 1.7.0 final. I'd appreciate if a few
>> people
>> could test installation and upgrading, which don't receive as much
>> testing
>> from
>> Wikipedia as other code.
>>
>>
>>
> I did not experience any show-stoppers when upgrading from 1.6.7.  I'm
> still
> testing all of my extensions for compatibility though...
>
> Thank you for requiring PHP 5.  Hopefully this will some way help convince
> the lethargic hosting providers to upgrade.  PHP 5 will be two years old
> next Thursday.  Yeesh.
>
> Also, Brion, check out
> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFMLGEN/mail/1355.  Basically,
> 'require_once' isn't as fast as 'require'.  Also, given the extreme amount
> of 'require' statements in MW and the fact that it is now PHP 5, have you
> ever thought of using the __autoload() function?  See
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.autoload.php
>
> Gregory Szorc
> gregory.szorc at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


body:
Travis Derouin wrote:
> We recently tried using php 5.1 on our installation, granted we are
> still running 1.4.7 (yes, yes, yes, we are in the process of
> upgrading) and things mysteriously stopped working.... Like rollbacks
> and the spam blacklist. It was weird.

You might try running a modern version of MediaWiki that's designed to run on
PHP 5.1.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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subject: [Wikitech-l] Template Languages

body:
Felipe Sanches wrote:
> Can I use Smarty on new features for mediawiki ?
> (i am not talking about mw extensions)

That only you will ever use? Sure.

It's not suitable for core functionality, however.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Travis Derouin

body:
We recently tried using php 5.1 on our installation, granted we are
still running 1.4.7 (yes, yes, yes, we are in the process of
upgrading) and things mysteriously stopped working.... Like rollbacks
and the spam blacklist. It was weird. I dug into it and did find that
array1 += array2 no longer worked as expected, which was causing our
Spam Blacklist extension to fail. It wasn't a fun experience. Going
back to php 4.1 returned things to normal.

Travis


subject: [Wikitech-l] Squid timeout question

body:
I have a Squid question, thought I'd post it here since the set up is
related to Wikipedia's, and no one on the Squid mailing list had any
ideas...

We're running Squid in reverse proxy as an http accelerator,
configured as described on meta.wikimedia.org. When our back end web
server that generates the uncached content has problems (high load,
etc) and becomes unresponsive, so does our front-end Squid server -
that is request for cached and uncached pages become stalled.

is there a way that we can configure Squid to ignore this and continue
to serve cached content  to users when a certain timeout has passed
when contacting the back end Apache server? it would be helpful in two
ways, one, visitors accessing cached content won't experience the
interruption, and two, connections to the back end server won't pile
up, adding to the problem.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Travis


list: commons-l

from_name: bastique at bellsouth.net

body:
Paddy brings up something very interesting with regard to the newspaper's use.

A coat of arms consists of two different things: the heraldic definition and the graphic representation.  Typically,  where a city has a copyright on its COA, it is only a graphic representation that the city or locality has copyrighted.  A heraldic definition may be artistically interpreted, thereby circumventing the city's copyright on the COA.  The legal definitions vary from country to country.

For instance, in the United States, the graphical representation that most states use as seals are the copyrighted property of the US state in question, and therefore are not considered free.  However, a graphical representation of the seal may be used in its place as the "state seal".

This, of course, will not satisfy a good many of our end users, who will see anything but what the state/city uses, to the exact pixel, as "wrong", thereby eliminating its use at any project that disallows "fair use" images.

It also should be noted that an artistic representation of a COA is copyrightable, and therefore must be released prior to upload.

Cary Bass
"Bastique"
>
> From: "Zachary Harden" <zscout370 at hotmail.com>
> Date: 2006/07/06 Thu AM 05:03:55 EDT
> To: commons-l at wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Commons-l] COA copyright policies and other legal stuff,..
>
> Dear Paddy,
>
> I just think it depends on the nations that the coat of arms are registered
> in. Some might have Public Domain status granted to them since Day One of
> use, while others have to sit through the test of time. While I am not
> familiar with Slovak law, I would wait and see what it says before we take
> any action.
>
> Rgds, Zach
>
>
> >From: Patrick-Emil Z?rner <paddyez at yahoo.de>
> >Reply-To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List <commons-l at wikimedia.org>
> >To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List <commons-l at wikimedia.org>
> >Subject: [Commons-l] COA copyright policies and other legal stuff,..
> >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:01:00 +0200 (CEST)
> >
> >Since Eric was posting a hint on all common admins talk pages I use
> >this opportunity to talk about a subject I strongly feel about.
> >
> >BTW I am subscribing to this ML and have been since the beginning. The
> >reason I have not been reading the ML or making posts here is a
> >completly differnt one.
> >
> >When I was trying to go through the deletion tags to dispose images
> >that are against the commons policy I found the following:
> >
> >http://commons.wikimedia.org//wiki/Template%3ASlovakCityCOA
> >
> >Concerning COAs my believe always was that we have to care about:
> >
> >1) Copyright(, Urheberrecht,...) whatever it may be in your country
> >2) It must be commercial.
> >3) People must be able to modify it.
> >
> >To 1) in most cases we do not need to care about that dealing with
> >COAs since they are ooooooooooold.
> >However the points 2) and 3) make me feel uneasy and I know there was
> >a long discussion on de WP.
> >
> >Concerning point 2) some of you might know that the german newspaper
> >"Die Zeit" was using the COA of the federal state and city Hamburg and
> >needed to change the COA on the front cover because of a senat
> >decision in Hamburg. Personally I think that such a behaviour is
> >silly. I mean it is not like they have been printing toilet paper with
> >the COA of Hamburg and selling the stuff. Even printing the COA of a
> >town on t-shirts and selling them could cause legal trouble IMHO.
> >
> >To 3) the Brockhaus Multimedial (a germen encyclopedia on DVD) uses
> >stylised COAs. I totally do not get why they did that. What I am
> >saying is that this could be interpreted as a modification plus
> >commercial use. Modifing a COA and selling the stuff on some
> >merchandising items could cause legal problems too IMHO.
> >
> >Summary: I do not think that COA go 100% with wikimedia project
> >policies concerning points 2 and 3. Personally I even think that COAs
> >as a picture in an encyclopedia are nice to have but not necessary.
> >But since they seem accepted in the Wikimedia projects commons should
> >keep them all and without exception since they are PD with some legal
> >framework attached to them. Therfore I suggest that in cases like the
> >slovak COA we ignore the terms of use and leave it up to the one that
> >uses these images to read the terms of use. The slovak terms of use do
> >not even seem very strikt as far as I can understand the language.
> >
> >Last but not least I think that the wikimedia projects had the wrong
> >approach dealing with COAs. They should IMHO have waived using them.
> >Only COAs that had 100% leagal permissions from the city/country
> >should have been used. While the WM-projects were growing there could
> >have been an open window to leagaly enforce WM-projects to use the
> >COAs because the cities would have wanted us to use them because
> >without saying the WM-projects make even the smallest town known in
> >the internet.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> >greetings
> >
> >Paddy
>
>
>
>


body:
On Jul 7, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Delirium wrote:

> homey2005 at sympatico.ca wrote:
>
>> The debate and voting has been dominated by various interests - it
>> would thus be best for the community if a broader cross section of
>> people including disinterested and neutral parties, reviewed the
>> proposals and had their say.
>>
>>
>
> Well, I tried to read through some of that, but frankly it looks
> like a
> huge mess, which is probably why only people who have strong
> opinions on
> the subject are weighing in.
>
> The biggest problem with the whole debate, in my opinion, is that a
> lot
> of it isn't really about Wikipedia at all, but instead about the
> subject
> itself, which doesn't belong on a Wikipedia talk page.  People seem to
> be arguing, for example, about whether certain Israeli policies
> constitute "apartheid", which it is not our job to determine---the
> issue
> is whether reliable/respectable sources describe them as such, and if
> so, how to write an article summarizing that debate, and how to title
> and situate that article to be maximally neutral and useful to our
> readers.
>
> Instead it seems to be a morass of internet op-ed columnists
> weighing in...
>
> -Mark

It is an attempt to reframe the debate. The possible effects of
reframing the debate and to what extent that is a conscious strategy
would make an excellent article.

Fred


subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.7.0 released

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This is the quarterly release snapshot for Summer 2006. While the code
has been running on Wikipedia for some time, installation and upgrade
bits may be less well tested. Bug fix releases may follow in the coming
days or weeks.

MediaWiki is now using a "continuous integration" development model with
quarterly snapshot releases. The latest development code is always kept
"ready to run", and in fact runs our own sites on Wikipedia.

Release branches will continue to receive security updates for about a year
from first release, but nonessential bugfixes and feature development happen
on the development trunk and appear in the next quarterly release.

Those wishing to use the latest code instead of a branch release can obtain
it from source control: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download_from_SVN

This is the first version of MediaWiki to require PHP 5. 5.1.x is recommended;
5.0 may work but is not well tested. (PHP 5.0 is no longer maintained; all PHP
5.0 users should upgrade to a current 5.1 release to ensure they have all
security fixes.) PHP 4.x is no longer supported by MediaWiki. If you are unable
to upgrade PHP, sorry, but you will have to stick with old versions of MediaWiki
for now.

Full release notes:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/tags/REL1_7_0/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/tags/REL1_7_0/phase3/HISTORY

Download:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wikipedia/mediawiki-1.7.0.tar.gz

MD5 checksum:
d3b0ed529ae5ac9dfe713fbdbeae8025  mediawiki-1.7.0.tar.gz

SHA-1 checksum:
90c484ad4c2c20023ee1dcbd0eb2904e1a6a1727 mediawiki-1.7.0.tar.gz

Before asking for help, try the FAQ:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:FAQ

Low-traffic release announcements mailing list:
(Please subscribe to receive announcements of security updates.)
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce

Wiki admin help mailing list:
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

Bug report system:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/

Play "stump the developers" live on IRC:
#mediawiki on irc.freenode.net

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Delirium

body:
homey2005 at sympatico.ca wrote:
> The debate and voting has been dominated by various interests - it would thus be best for the community if a broader cross section of people including disinterested and neutral parties, reviewed the proposals and had their say.
>

Well, I tried to read through some of that, but frankly it looks like a
huge mess, which is probably why only people who have strong opinions on
the subject are weighing in.

The biggest problem with the whole debate, in my opinion, is that a lot
of it isn't really about Wikipedia at all, but instead about the subject
itself, which doesn't belong on a Wikipedia talk page.  People seem to
be arguing, for example, about whether certain Israeli policies
constitute "apartheid", which it is not our job to determine---the issue
is whether reliable/respectable sources describe them as such, and if
so, how to write an article summarizing that debate, and how to title
and situate that article to be maximally neutral and useful to our readers.

Instead it seems to be a morass of internet op-ed columnists weighing in...

-Mark


subject: [Wikitech-l] Template Languages

body:
Can I use Smarty on new features for mediawiki ?
(i am not talking about mw extensions)


from_name: Rob Church

body:
On 07/07/06, Ulisse Savi <ulisavi at tin.it> wrote:
> Yes. The problem is that it not require PHP 5. It require 5.1... It is a
> little hard with  PHP requirment. ... I'm in battle to upgrade PHP from 5.04
> to 5.1.4 . ... With PHP 5.04 IT NOT WORK ? Is it possible to use PHP 5.0.4
> AND NOT 5.1.4 ?

Why isn't this poster on moderation/medication?

Rob Church


from_name: liu haokai

subject: [Wikitech-l] What is mwCustomEditButtons, where it is defined

body:
I found the mwCustomEditButtons in wikipedia's "mediawiki:monobook.js" which
is designed to add edit tool buttons above edit box. However, in my wiki, a
javascript error ocurred when I try to do the same thing. I wonder where the
mwCustomEditButtons be difined.

here is code from "mediawiki:monobook.js" in wikipedia:

/* add a redirect button to the edit page toolbar */
if (mwCustomEditButtons) {
  mwCustomEditButtons[mwCustomEditButtons.length] = {
    "imageFile":
"http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Button_redirect.png",
    "speedTip": "Redirect",
    "tagOpen": "#REDIRECT [[",
    "tagClose": "]]",
    "sampleText": "Insert text"};
};

/*


subject: [Wikitech-l] Squid timeout question

body:
Great, thanks for the suggestions! I have some questions.

> I don't believe we've had this problem, squid should keep serving cached
> pages reasonably efficiently until the filedescriptor limit is reached or
> you run out of CPU. You might want to check that there is in fact no
> communication back to the webserver when squid serves "cached" pages. It
> might be doing an If-Modified-Since (IMS) refresh, or a full request. If it
> is, then you need to make sure you're sending the right Expires and
> Cache-Control headers.

The correct headers are just

  Cache-Control: s-maxage=2678400, must-revalidate, max-age=0

which are generated in Outputpage.php, right?

> Make sure you're using epoll not poll. There's the possibility that your
> select loop is becoming too slow as the connection count increases. You'll
> see high system CPU and a high select loop period in cachemgr.cgi.

I'm not sure what epoll and poll are and can't seem to find any
documentation on them, can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks!
Travis


list: textbook-l

from_name: Robert Scott Horning

subject: [Textbook-l] Wikibooks 3-year anniversary announcement (preliminary)

body:
This is a feeler to go out to any Wikibooks user in languages other than
English, or for that matter any Wikimedia user who wants to help
participate with the development of a general press release/status
report over Wikibook on Wikibooks day, July 10th, 2006.  On that day
Wikibooks will be three years old from when
http://textbooks.wikipedia.org/ was first established and the first
pages were created.

If you want to help out with at least putting in a few positive comments
over what has happened on Wikibooks please join us at:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:State_of_the_Project/2006

We have comments from the Polish, English, and German Wikibooks groups,
but more would be appreciated.

I know that this list doesn't really go that far, and that many of the
same people who subscribe to this list also monitor the Staff Lounge,
but any help on this is useful.

We would like to proclaim this in a number of places including Wikinews,
Foundation-l, and a few other places that might be of note with this all
coordinated on July 10th.   Slashdot was one of the suggested places as
well, for instance.  If there are any thoughts on how to "publicize"
this milestone, it would be appreciated.

--
Robert Scott Horning


body:
On 07/07/06, Ulisse Savi <ulisavi at tin.it> wrote:
> Yes. Absolutely. PHP 5.1 for requirement is a bad, bad, bad thing.
> If i use Php 5-04 i can install it ?

What utter bollocks. If the software needs PHP 5.1.x then it needs
5.1.x. There' s no Bad Thing about it.

> Upgrading from 5.04 to 5.1, in Plesk is a terrible thing.

Don't use Plesk then.

>
> Is it possible to install 1.7 in PHP 5.04 ?

Have you TRIED?

> In another list i have found the message :
> [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [15409] trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES
>
> " == Compatibility ==
>  MediaWiki 1.8 requires PHP 5 (5.1 recommended). PHP 4 is no longer supported.:"

Recommended, because we haven't been testing against 5.0.x. It might
*require* the 5.1.x branch...

> PHP 5 IS SUFFICIENT !!!
> I DON'T NEED 5.1

Good for you. Off you go, then.

Rob Church


from_name: Kim Bruning

subject: [Foundation-l] The Perl Wiki, or Perl-Wikipedia

in_reply_to:
<200607051539.07206.ermeyers@adelphia.net>;
	from ermeyers@adelphia.net on Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM
	-0400

body:
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM -0400, Eric R. Meyers wrote:
> I don't know if Shlomi or Jacinta have read my very enthusiastic response to
> Shlomi's post on the perl.advocacy usenet, but I've begun to research my idea
> on Wikipedia, towards the creation of Perl-Wikipedia, "The Free Encyclopedia
> of Perl."

open WIKI, "perl" or die "for great justice"; # :-)

Hello Eric,
I understand you'd like to set up a centralised wiki for all perl
programmers.

Wikimedia foundation has some very broad, general purpose wikis, and
it's probably not what you want.

However, the foundation does also release their mediawiki software under
GPL. Setting up your own server is probably your best bet, and it's not
hard!

The program Mediawiki (our wiki server software) has options to
trivially make inter-wiki links, so you can tie your wiki to any other
particular existing wiki quite easily. You might also like to make use
of the patches being developed by the literate programming wiki folks
mentioned elsewhere in this thread. These will even allow the server to validate
perl code that's on your wiki.

Finally, if you have funds or time that the
literate programming people don't,  you could work with them to
provide virtual machines for sandboxes (either server-side or if you're
totally crazy you could even try for client-side). This would allow you
to even safely run perl code straight off the wiki!

In short, wikimedia foundation adheres to the unix philosophy in that
it's good at one (small set of) thing(s), and doing it/them well.

To do something else (like make a wiki specific to perl) , you might
want to set it up yourself. As a bonus, you can customize the heck out
of it while you're at it.

Of course, a number of volunteers will be very very interested in what
you're doing, so you'd likely get plenty of help. There's also a channel
on irc.freenode.net : #mediawiki, where you can get help with the
software.

Finally:
There's only one small disadvantage to this entire plan (from a perl
perspective): Mediawiki is written in PHP  ;-)

read you soon,
	Kim Bruning

--
[Non-pgp mail clients may show pgp-signature as attachment]
gpg (www.gnupg.org) Fingerprint for key  FEF9DD72
5ED6 E215 73EE AD84 E03A  01C5 94AC 7B0E FEF9 DD72


body:
>
> Why isn't this poster on moderation/medication?
>
>
> Rob Church

Yes. I'm in anxiety. And i'm also a little stupid.
But it is the true. Pardon me.
Plesk for example has only php 5.0.4.
PHP 5.1 IS REALLY REALLY HARD (HARD, HARD AND HARD) for requirement.
Or not ?
P.S. A adults only (super porn (xxx)) post....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Church" <robchur at gmail.com>
To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.7.0 release candidate

> On 07/07/06, Ulisse Savi <ulisavi at tin.it> wrote:
>> Yes. The problem is that it not require PHP 5. It require 5.1... It is a
>> little hard with  PHP requirment. ... I'm in battle to upgrade PHP from
>> 5.04
>> to 5.1.4 . ... With PHP 5.04 IT NOT WORK ? Is it possible to use PHP
>> 5.0.4
>> AND NOT 5.1.4 ?
>
> Why isn't this poster on moderation/medication?
>
>
> Rob Church
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Eric R. Meyers

body:
Hi Kim,

On Friday 07 July 2006 10:08, Kim Bruning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM -0400, Eric R. Meyers wrote:
> > I don't know if Shlomi or Jacinta have read my very enthusiastic response
> > to Shlomi's post on the perl.advocacy usenet, but I've begun to research
> > my idea on Wikipedia, towards the creation of Perl-Wikipedia, "The Free
> > Encyclopedia of Perl."
>
> open WIKI, "perl" or die "for great justice"; # :-)
>
Absolutely! :)

> Hello Eric,
> I understand you'd like to set up a centralised wiki for all perl
> programmers.
>
> Wikimedia foundation has some very broad, general purpose wikis, and
> it's probably not what you want.
>
> However, the foundation does also release their mediawiki software under
> GPL. Setting up your own server is probably your best bet, and it's not
> hard!
>

Obviously, I'm not a wiki expert.  I'm simply a Systems Engineer and Perl
Programming Language advocate, who frequently uses Wikipedia to learn, and I
really like what Wikimedia has been doing over the last few years, so I'm
also a Wikimedia advocate.  I really liked Shlomi's great idea, and Shlomi is
a wiki expert from Israel, and he has researched and/or used a variety of
wiki server programs.  Jacinta is a wiki expert from Australia, and she said
that http://perl.net.au uses MediaWiki for their wiki named "PerlNet ? The
Perl portal for Australia and New Zealand."  I simply said that I'd like to
help them to set this good thing up, and I'm trying to figure out "The Right
Way" to do it.

> The program Mediawiki (our wiki server software) has options to
> trivially make inter-wiki links, so you can tie your wiki to any other
> particular existing wiki quite easily. You might also like to make use
> of the patches being developed by the literate programming wiki folks
> mentioned elsewhere in this thread. These will even allow the server to
> validate perl code that's on your wiki.
>
> Finally, if you have funds or time that the
> literate programming people don't,  you could work with them to
> provide virtual machines for sandboxes (either server-side or if you're
> totally crazy you could even try for client-side). This would allow you
> to even safely run perl code straight off the wiki!
>
My first answer to you is Yes, I'm "totally crazy." :)  I'm not doing too good
with personal funds anymore, but that personal time thing is fairly easy for
me now.  For the past few years, while Wikimedia has been doing all of their
very interesting, technical and world-changing work, I've been fully disabled
and recovering from a very serious illness, an unidentified CNS disorder that
has left me physically disabled, but I'm extremely lucky that my mental
capabilities are being returned to me, and I still get to be Dad for two
beautiful girls.  I believe that God has kept me here for some of His own
good reasons.  I used to integrate Submarine and Surface Ship combat systems,
which is not a bad thing to do in this world, but now I'm focused on writing
programs to protect children from visual attacks on the internet, and some
other things, like helping people out at the perl.beginners usenet.

These other interesting things that you've mentioned, previously unknown to
me, are the types of things that I'm trying to discover, learn and understand
through this discussion.  Thanks much.  I really like that word "trivially,"
because those "inter-wiki links" are my real practical concern.  I want to
achieve very tight content-coupling with all of Wikimedia's excellent content
to eliminate redundancies, ambiguities and errors, and to make it very
apparent that the Perl community is contributing the Perl-particular content
under the greater Wikimedia-general content, and "The Perl Wiki" is simply to
do "The Right Thing" by adding its underlying content for "The Bigger
Picture" being presented by The Wikimedia Foundation's "very broad and
general purpose wikis."  The more general things should go up into the
greater wiki nodes, and the more particular things should go down into the
lesser wiki nodes.  There'll be no redundancy, if we can achieve this tight
content-coupling through those trivially implemented "inter-wiki links."  And
at the point of successfully achieving some very good, free & open content,
functionality and availability, who particularly cares what something is
called underneath, where it's hosted or who owns the name of a particular
wiki at the moment.  If it all somehow synergizes, then we don't need to fix
it, but until we have this functional shuffle toward a convergence that I
believe can be brought to fruition, I'll look around to find out how to fix
it "The Right Way" for "The Perl Wiki" to consolidate the Perl wikis that are
out there right now.

>
> In short, wikimedia foundation adheres to the unix philosophy in that
> it's good at one (small set of) thing(s), and doing it/them well.
>
> To do something else (like make a wiki specific to perl) , you might
> want to set it up yourself. As a bonus, you can customize the heck out
> of it while you're at it.
>
I'm not a big enough crazy to try to do something like this all by myself.  I
don't want to do it for me, but for us.  I'm just advocating Shlomi's good
idea, and acting upon my personal commitment to help get it started, by
researching and having some good discussions with nice people like you, and
the others whom I've met here.

> Of course, a number of volunteers will be very very interested in what
> you're doing, so you'd likely get plenty of help. There's also a channel
> on irc.freenode.net : #mediawiki, where you can get help with the
> software.
>
I originally went to the #wikipedia-bootcamp channel, etc., before joining
Foundation-l to start this discussion.

> Finally:
> There's only one small disadvantage to this entire plan (from a perl
> perspective): Mediawiki is written in PHP  ;-)
>
I did some PHP-CGI scripting for my WWW::YouTube distribution that I published
in the CPAN, but most importantly I want to keep things simple for the long
term by closely following Wikimedia's pattern.  I think that Wikimedia is on
"The Right Path."

Angela Beesley sent me a very nice email yesterday, from Wikia, to tell me
that she has set up http://perl.wikia.com and the perl-l at wikia.com mailing
list.  I haven't gotten a chance to do much about it yet, but I'm fairly
satisfied that some good progress is being made.

Thanks again,

Eric
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body:
Hi Kim,

On Friday 07 July 2006 10:08, Kim Bruning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM -0400, Eric R. Meyers wrote:
> > I don't know if Shlomi or Jacinta have read my very enthusiastic response
> > to Shlomi's post on the perl.advocacy usenet, but I've begun to research
> > my idea on Wikipedia, towards the creation of Perl-Wikipedia, "The Free
> > Encyclopedia of Perl."
>
> open WIKI, "perl" or die "for great justice"; # :-)
>
Absolutely! :)

> Hello Eric,
> I understand you'd like to set up a centralised wiki for all perl
> programmers.
>
> Wikimedia foundation has some very broad, general purpose wikis, and
> it's probably not what you want.
>
> However, the foundation does also release their mediawiki software under
> GPL. Setting up your own server is probably your best bet, and it's not
> hard!
>

Obviously, I'm not a wiki expert.  I'm simply a Systems Engineer and Perl
Programming Language advocate, who frequently uses Wikipedia to learn, and I
really like what Wikimedia has been doing over the last few years, so I'm
also a Wikimedia advocate.  I really liked Shlomi's great idea, and Shlomi is
a wiki expert from Israel, and he has researched and/or used a variety of
wiki server programs.  Jacinta is a wiki expert from Australia, and she said
that http://perl.net.au uses MediaWiki for their wiki named "PerlNet ? The
Perl portal for Australia and New Zealand."  I simply said that I'd like to
help them to set this good thing up, and I'm trying to figure out "The Right
Way" to do it.

> The program Mediawiki (our wiki server software) has options to
> trivially make inter-wiki links, so you can tie your wiki to any other
> particular existing wiki quite easily. You might also like to make use
> of the patches being developed by the literate programming wiki folks
> mentioned elsewhere in this thread. These will even allow the server to
> validate perl code that's on your wiki.
>
> Finally, if you have funds or time that the
> literate programming people don't,  you could work with them to
> provide virtual machines for sandboxes (either server-side or if you're
> totally crazy you could even try for client-side). This would allow you
> to even safely run perl code straight off the wiki!
>
My first answer to you is Yes, I'm "totally crazy." :)  I'm not doing too good
with personal funds anymore, but that personal time thing is fairly easy for
me now.  For the past few years, while Wikimedia has been doing all of their
very interesting, technical and world-changing work, I've been fully disabled
and recovering from a very serious illness, an unidentified CNS disorder that
has left me physically disabled, but I'm extremely lucky that my mental
capabilities are being returned to me, and I still get to be Dad for two
beautiful girls.  I believe that God has kept me here for some of His own
good reasons.  I used to integrate Submarine and Surface Ship combat systems,
which is not a bad thing to do in this world, but now I'm focused on writing
programs to protect children from visual attacks on the internet, and some
other things, like helping people out at the perl.beginners usenet.

These other interesting things that you've mentioned, previously unknown to
me, are the types of things that I'm trying to discover, learn and understand
through this discussion.  Thanks much.  I really like that word "trivially,"
because those "inter-wiki links" are my real practical concern.  I want to
achieve very tight content-coupling with all of Wikimedia's excellent content
to eliminate redundancies, ambiguities and errors, and to make it very
apparent that the Perl community is contributing the Perl-particular content
under the greater Wikimedia-general content, and "The Perl Wiki" is simply to
do "The Right Thing" by adding its underlying content for "The Bigger
Picture" being presented by The Wikimedia Foundation's "very broad and
general purpose wikis."  The more general things should go up into the
greater wiki nodes, and the more particular things should go down into the
lesser wiki nodes.  There'll be no redundancy, if we can achieve this tight
content-coupling through those trivially implemented "inter-wiki links."  And
at the point of successfully achieving some very good, free & open content,
functionality and availability, who particularly cares what something is
called underneath, where it's hosted or who owns the name of a particular
wiki at the moment.  If it all somehow synergizes, then we don't need to fix
it, but until we have this functional shuffle toward a convergence that I
believe can be brought to fruition, I'll look around to find out how to fix
it "The Right Way" for "The Perl Wiki" to consolidate the Perl wikis that are
out there right now.

>
> In short, wikimedia foundation adheres to the unix philosophy in that
> it's good at one (small set of) thing(s), and doing it/them well.
>
> To do something else (like make a wiki specific to perl) , you might
> want to set it up yourself. As a bonus, you can customize the heck out
> of it while you're at it.
>
I'm not a big enough crazy to try to do something like this all by myself.  I
don't want to do it for me, but for us.  I'm just advocating Shlomi's good
idea, and acting upon my personal commitment to help get it started, by
researching and having some good discussions with nice people like you, and
the others whom I've met here.

> Of course, a number of volunteers will be very very interested in what
> you're doing, so you'd likely get plenty of help. There's also a channel
> on irc.freenode.net : #mediawiki, where you can get help with the
> software.
>
I originally went to the #wikipedia-bootcamp channel, etc., before joining
Foundation-l to start this discussion.

> Finally:
> There's only one small disadvantage to this entire plan (from a perl
> perspective): Mediawiki is written in PHP  ;-)
>
I did some PHP-CGI scripting for my WWW::YouTube distribution that I published
in the CPAN, but most importantly I want to keep things simple for the long
term by closely following Wikimedia's pattern.  I think that Wikimedia is on
"The Right Path."

Angela Beesley sent me a very nice email yesterday, from Wikia, to tell me
that she has set up http://perl.wikia.com and the perl-l at wikia.com mailing
list.  I haven't gotten a chance to do much about it yet, but I'm fairly
satisfied that some good progress is being made.

Thanks again,

Eric
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body:
Hi Kim,

On Friday 07 July 2006 10:08, Kim Bruning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM -0400, Eric R. Meyers wrote:
> > I don't know if Shlomi or Jacinta have read my very enthusiastic response
> > to Shlomi's post on the perl.advocacy usenet, but I've begun to research
> > my idea on Wikipedia, towards the creation of Perl-Wikipedia, "The Free
> > Encyclopedia of Perl."
>
> open WIKI, "perl" or die "for great justice"; # :-)
>
Absolutely! :)

> Hello Eric,
> I understand you'd like to set up a centralised wiki for all perl
> programmers.
>
> Wikimedia foundation has some very broad, general purpose wikis, and
> it's probably not what you want.
>
> However, the foundation does also release their mediawiki software under
> GPL. Setting up your own server is probably your best bet, and it's not
> hard!
>

Obviously, I'm not a wiki expert.  I'm simply a Systems Engineer and Perl
Programming Language advocate, who frequently uses Wikipedia to learn, and I
really like what Wikimedia has been doing over the last few years, so I'm
also a Wikimedia advocate.  I really liked Shlomi's great idea, and Shlomi is
a wiki expert from Israel, and he has researched and/or used a variety of
wiki server programs.  Jacinta is a wiki expert from Australia, and she said
that http://perl.net.au uses MediaWiki for their wiki named "PerlNet ? The
Perl portal for Australia and New Zealand."  I simply said that I'd like to
help them to set this good thing up, and I'm trying to figure out "The Right
Way" to do it.

> The program Mediawiki (our wiki server software) has options to
> trivially make inter-wiki links, so you can tie your wiki to any other
> particular existing wiki quite easily. You might also like to make use
> of the patches being developed by the literate programming wiki folks
> mentioned elsewhere in this thread. These will even allow the server to
> validate perl code that's on your wiki.
>
> Finally, if you have funds or time that the
> literate programming people don't,  you could work with them to
> provide virtual machines for sandboxes (either server-side or if you're
> totally crazy you could even try for client-side). This would allow you
> to even safely run perl code straight off the wiki!
>
My first answer to you is Yes, I'm "totally crazy." :)  I'm not doing too good
with personal funds anymore, but that personal time thing is fairly easy for
me now.  For the past few years, while Wikimedia has been doing all of their
very interesting, technical and world-changing work, I've been fully disabled
and recovering from a very serious illness, an unidentified CNS disorder that
has left me physically disabled, but I'm extremely lucky that my mental
capabilities are being returned to me, and I still get to be Dad for two
beautiful girls.  I believe that God has kept me here for some of His own
good reasons.  I used to integrate Submarine and Surface Ship combat systems,
which is not a bad thing to do in this world, but now I'm focused on writing
programs to protect children from visual attacks on the internet, and some
other things, like helping people out at the perl.beginners usenet.

These other interesting things that you've mentioned, previously unknown to
me, are the types of things that I'm trying to discover, learn and understand
through this discussion.  Thanks much.  I really like that word "trivially,"
because those "inter-wiki links" are my real practical concern.  I want to
achieve very tight content-coupling with all of Wikimedia's excellent content
to eliminate redundancies, ambiguities and errors, and to make it very
apparent that the Perl community is contributing the Perl-particular content
under the greater Wikimedia-general content, and "The Perl Wiki" is simply to
do "The Right Thing" by adding its underlying content for "The Bigger
Picture" being presented by The Wikimedia Foundation's "very broad and
general purpose wikis."  The more general things should go up into the
greater wiki nodes, and the more particular things should go down into the
lesser wiki nodes.  There'll be no redundancy, if we can achieve this tight
content-coupling through those trivially implemented "inter-wiki links."  And
at the point of successfully achieving some very good, free & open content,
functionality and availability, who particularly cares what something is
called underneath, where it's hosted or who owns the name of a particular
wiki at the moment.  If it all somehow synergizes, then we don't need to fix
it, but until we have this functional shuffle toward a convergence that I
believe can be brought to fruition, I'll look around to find out how to fix
it "The Right Way" for "The Perl Wiki" to consolidate the Perl wikis that are
out there right now.

>
> In short, wikimedia foundation adheres to the unix philosophy in that
> it's good at one (small set of) thing(s), and doing it/them well.
>
> To do something else (like make a wiki specific to perl) , you might
> want to set it up yourself. As a bonus, you can customize the heck out
> of it while you're at it.
>
I'm not a big enough crazy to try to do something like this all by myself.  I
don't want to do it for me, but for us.  I'm just advocating Shlomi's good
idea, and acting upon my personal commitment to help get it started, by
researching and having some good discussions with nice people like you, and
the others whom I've met here.

> Of course, a number of volunteers will be very very interested in what
> you're doing, so you'd likely get plenty of help. There's also a channel
> on irc.freenode.net : #mediawiki, where you can get help with the
> software.
>
I originally went to the #wikipedia-bootcamp channel, etc., before joining
Foundation-l to start this discussion.

> Finally:
> There's only one small disadvantage to this entire plan (from a perl
> perspective): Mediawiki is written in PHP  ;-)
>
I did some PHP-CGI scripting for my WWW::YouTube distribution that I published
in the CPAN, but most importantly I want to keep things simple for the long
term by closely following Wikimedia's pattern.  I think that Wikimedia is on
"The Right Path."

Angela Beesley sent me a very nice email yesterday, from Wikia, to tell me
that she has set up http://perl.wikia.com and the perl-l at wikia.com mailing
list.  I haven't gotten a chance to do much about it yet, but I'm fairly
satisfied that some good progress is being made.

Thanks again,

Eric
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body:
Hi Kim,

On Friday 07 July 2006 10:08, Kim Bruning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 03:38:53PM -0400, Eric R. Meyers wrote:
> > I don't know if Shlomi or Jacinta have read my very enthusiastic response
> > to Shlomi's post on the perl.advocacy usenet, but I've begun to research
> > my idea on Wikipedia, towards the creation of Perl-Wikipedia, "The Free
> > Encyclopedia of Perl."
>
> open WIKI, "perl" or die "for great justice"; # :-)
>
Absolutely! :)

> Hello Eric,
> I understand you'd like to set up a centralised wiki for all perl
> programmers.
>
> Wikimedia foundation has some very broad, general purpose wikis, and
> it's probably not what you want.
>
> However, the foundation does also release their mediawiki software under
> GPL. Setting up your own server is probably your best bet, and it's not
> hard!
>

Obviously, I'm not a wiki expert.  I'm simply a Systems Engineer and Perl
Programming Language advocate, who frequently uses Wikipedia to learn, and I
really like what Wikimedia has been doing over the last few years, so I'm
also a Wikimedia advocate.  I really liked Shlomi's great idea, and Shlomi is
a wiki expert from Israel, and he has researched and/or used a variety of
wiki server programs.  Jacinta is a wiki expert from Australia, and she said
that http://perl.net.au uses MediaWiki for their wiki named "PerlNet ? The
Perl portal for Australia and New Zealand."  I simply said that I'd like to
help them to set this good thing up, and I'm trying to figure out "The Right
Way" to do it.

> The program Mediawiki (our wiki server software) has options to
> trivially make inter-wiki links, so you can tie your wiki to any other
> particular existing wiki quite easily. You might also like to make use
> of the patches being developed by the literate programming wiki folks
> mentioned elsewhere in this thread. These will even allow the server to
> validate perl code that's on your wiki.
>
> Finally, if you have funds or time that the
> literate programming people don't,  you could work with them to
> provide virtual machines for sandboxes (either server-side or if you're
> totally crazy you could even try for client-side). This would allow you
> to even safely run perl code straight off the wiki!
>
My first answer to you is Yes, I'm "totally crazy." :)  I'm not doing too good
with personal funds anymore, but that personal time thing is fairly easy for
me now.  For the past few years, while Wikimedia has been doing all of their
very interesting, technical and world-changing work, I've been fully disabled
and recovering from a very serious illness, an unidentified CNS disorder that
has left me physically disabled, but I'm extremely lucky that my mental
capabilities are being returned to me, and I still get to be Dad for two
beautiful girls.  I believe that God has kept me here for some of His own
good reasons.  I used to integrate Submarine and Surface Ship combat systems,
which is not a bad thing to do in this world, but now I'm focused on writing
programs to protect children from visual attacks on the internet, and some
other things, like helping people out at the perl.beginners usenet.

These other interesting things that you've mentioned, previously unknown to
me, are the types of things that I'm trying to discover, learn and understand
through this discussion.  Thanks much.  I really like that word "trivially,"
because those "inter-wiki links" are my real practical concern.  I want to
achieve very tight content-coupling with all of Wikimedia's excellent content
to eliminate redundancies, ambiguities and errors, and to make it very
apparent that the Perl community is contributing the Perl-particular content
under the greater Wikimedia-general content, and "The Perl Wiki" is simply to
do "The Right Thing" by adding its underlying content for "The Bigger
Picture" being presented by The Wikimedia Foundation's "very broad and
general purpose wikis."  The more general things should go up into the
greater wiki nodes, and the more particular things should go down into the
lesser wiki nodes.  There'll be no redundancy, if we can achieve this tight
content-coupling through those trivially implemented "inter-wiki links."  And
at the point of successfully achieving some very good, free & open content,
functionality and availability, who particularly cares what something is
called underneath, where it's hosted or who owns the name of a particular
wiki at the moment.  If it all somehow synergizes, then we don't need to fix
it, but until we have this functional shuffle toward a convergence that I
believe can be brought to fruition, I'll look around to find out how to fix
it "The Right Way" for "The Perl Wiki" to consolidate the Perl wikis that are
out there right now.

>
> In short, wikimedia foundation adheres to the unix philosophy in that
> it's good at one (small set of) thing(s), and doing it/them well.
>
> To do something else (like make a wiki specific to perl) , you might
> want to set it up yourself. As a bonus, you can customize the heck out
> of it while you're at it.
>
I'm not a big enough crazy to try to do something like this all by myself.  I
don't want to do it for me, but for us.  I'm just advocating Shlomi's good
idea, and acting upon my personal commitment to help get it started, by
researching and having some good discussions with nice people like you, and
the others whom I've met here.

> Of course, a number of volunteers will be very very interested in what
> you're doing, so you'd likely get plenty of help. There's also a channel
> on irc.freenode.net : #mediawiki, where you can get help with the
> software.
>
I originally went to the #wikipedia-bootcamp channel, etc., before joining
Foundation-l to start this discussion.

> Finally:
> There's only one small disadvantage to this entire plan (from a perl
> perspective): Mediawiki is written in PHP  ;-)
>
I did some PHP-CGI scripting for my WWW::YouTube distribution that I published
in the CPAN, but most importantly I want to keep things simple for the long
term by closely following Wikimedia's pattern.  I think that Wikimedia is on
"The Right Path."

Angela Beesley sent me a very nice email yesterday, from Wikia, to tell me
that she has set up http://perl.wikia.com and the perl-l at wikia.com mailing
list.  I haven't gotten a chance to do much about it yet, but I'm fairly
satisfied that some good progress is being made.

Thanks again,

Eric
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from_name: Anders Wegge Jakobsen

body:
Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> writes:

> It's marked as just 1.7.0 internally. If there's no reports of major
> breakage by tomorrow morning I'll re-zip it as 1.7.0 final. I'd
> appreciate if a few people could test installation and upgrading,
> which don't receive as much testing from Wikipedia as other code.

 Installing with the experimental UTF-8 support terminates with this message:

  Warning: mysql_query(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link
  resource in /var/www/w17rc/mw17rc1/includes/Database.php on line 620

  A database query syntax error has occurred. The last attempted
  database query was: "(SQL query hidden)" from within function
  "". MySQL returned error "0: "

 Installing with the backwards compatible UTF-8 works OK.

--
// Wegge
Min begrundelse for at betragte Arne Wilstrup som en paphat:
<http://wiki.wegge.dk/Usenet_personligheder>
Bruger du den gratis spamfighther ser jeg kun dine indl?g *EN* gang.


body:
> We recently tried using php 5.1 on our installation, granted we are
> still running 1.4.7 (yes, yes, yes, we are in the process of
> upgrading) and things mysteriously stopped working.... Like rollbacks
> and the spam blacklist. It was weird. I dug into it and did find that
> array1 += array2 no longer worked as expected, which was causing our
> Spam Blacklist extension to fail. It wasn't a fun experience. Going
> back to php 4.1 returned things to normal.
>
> Travis
> _______________________________________________

Yes. Absolutely. PHP 5.1 for requirement is a bad, bad, bad thing.
If i use Php 5-04 i can install it ?

Upgrading from 5.04 to 5.1, in Plesk is a terrible thing.

Is it possible to install 1.7 in PHP 5.04 ?

-------------------
In another list i have found the message :
[MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [15409] trunk/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES

" == Compatibility ==
 MediaWiki 1.8 requires PHP 5 (5.1 recommended). PHP 4 is no longer supported.:"

PHP 5 IS SUFFICIENT !!!
I DON'T NEED 5.1

----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Derouin" <travis at wikihow.com>
To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki 1.7.0 release candidate

> We recently tried using php 5.1 on our installation, granted we are
> still running 1.4.7 (yes, yes, yes, we are in the process of
> upgrading) and things mysteriously stopped working.... Like rollbacks
> and the spam blacklist. It was weird. I dug into it and did find that
> array1 += array2 no longer worked as expected, which was causing our
> Spam Blacklist extension to fail. It wasn't a fun experience. Going
> back to php 4.1 returned things to normal.
>
> Travis
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Nick Jenkins

body:
mwCustomEditButtons is defined in wikibits.js :

=================================================
/var/www/hosts/mediawiki/wiki# grep -inr "mwCustomEditButtons" *
skins/common/wikibits.js:320:var mwCustomEditButtons = []; // eg to
add in MediaWiki:Common.js
[..snip..]
=================================================

For the wikipedia, the URL to this file is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/wikibits.js

All the best,
Nick.

> I found the mwCustomEditButtons in wikipedia's "mediawiki:monobook.js" which
> is designed to add edit tool buttons above edit box. However, in my wiki, a
> javascript error ocurred when I try to do the same thing. I wonder where the
> mwCustomEditButtons be difined.
>
> here is code from "mediawiki:monobook.js" in wikipedia:
>
> /* add a redirect button to the edit page toolbar */
> if (mwCustomEditButtons) {
>   mwCustomEditButtons[mwCustomEditButtons.length] = {
>     "imageFile":
> "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Button_redirect.png",
>     "speedTip": "Redirect",
>     "tagOpen": "#REDIRECT [[",
>     "tagClose": "]]",
>     "sampleText": "Insert text"};
> };


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [15433] trunk/phase3/languages

body:
collinj at svn.leuksman.com wrote:
> Revision: 15433
> Author:   collinj
> Date:     2006-07-07 13:10:06 -0700 (Fri, 07 Jul 2006)
>
> Log Message:
> -----------
> Replaced "<font color..." with "<span style="color..." in i18n files

There's not really any point to that, IMHO. Better to use some actual semantic
spans, eg using the warning class.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Phil Sandifer

references:
<mailman.78138.1152182827.4497.wikien-l@Wikipedia.org>
	<44ADC5BD.3010707@earthlink.net>
	<44AE1F7D.1040801@student.canberra.edu.au>

body:
On Jul 7, 2006, at 4:46 AM, Mark Gallagher wrote:
>
>  an article about Mr Thompson full of such improperly
> sourced, utterly trivial, and of course totally biased nonsense
> that the
> only reason I can't describe it as a "hatchet job" is because the
> phrase
> "embarrassment to Wikipedia" leaps far more readily to the tongue.

To be fair, the article was rather more accurate about Thompson than
your summary of it was about it.

Best,
Phil Sandifer

You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a
boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.

 >


from_name: Mark Gallagher

subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release

body:
Cobb,

> Jesse W wrote:
>
>> And, for "vandalism", it still is.  For misguided people - it has
>> always been discussion until either the misguided people change
>> their minds or enough other people get fed up, then more or less
>> forceful requests to leave.
>
> There are no such things as page creation vandals? How interesting.
> Do please expand on this fascinating new insight into what is
> currently happening on WIkipedia?

Pages created solely as vandalism can be, and almost always are,
speedied at will be any administrator.  Those that are mistakenly
nominated on AfD are generally speedy closed and deleted, but on rare
occasions we have seen vandal-created pages go through the AfD process
fully before being deleted.  In all cases: speedy, early-close AfD,
process-followed AfD, whatever, the article is deleted.

I find it very hard to believe that you have *ever* nominated an article
for AfD and seen it kept, either by AfD or DRV.  Please don't bullshit
us, it's very tiresome.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse


subject: [WikiEN-l] OSINT press release [correction]

body:
Err ...

> I find it very hard to believe that you have *ever* nominated an article
> for AfD and seen it kept, either by AfD or DRV.  Please don't bullshit
> us, it's very tiresome.

That's "pure vandalism article", of course, not "article".

I find it *very* easy to believe that Cobb might have nominated good
articles and seen them kept, but it's rather unlikely he's ever stuck a
pure vandalism article on AfD and not had it deleted.

Bah.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse


body:
G'day Michael S,

> Mark Gallagher wrote:
>
>>G'day Daniel S,
>>
>>>(And in the legal world there are also phenomena such as jury
>>>nullification and rogue judges...)
>>
>>We have them on Wikipedia, too.  Witness the Jack Thompson OFFICE
>>action and certain admins.
>
> Pardon me, but what exactly are you referring to here?

The Jack Thompson OFFICE action was an incident that occurred not too
long ago.  Some background (I don't know if you already know this stuff,
so bear with me if you do): the American Jack Thompson is a professional
lawyer and talented amateur wowser, famous amongst a small subset of
gamers.  The reason he's well-known to hardcore gamers is because the
target of his wowserism is violent video games.  Since hardcore gamers
typically enjoy playing violent video games above all else[0], this is
not a match made in heaven by any means.

Through a curious quirk of the Internet, hardcore gamers are far more
likely to contribute Wikipedia than American attorneys.  In particular,
strange though it sounds, hardcore gamers are far more likely to
contribute to an article about Mr Thompson full of such improperly
sourced, utterly trivial, and of course totally biased nonsense that the
only reason I can't describe it as a "hatchet job" is because the phrase
"embarrassment to Wikipedia" leaps far more readily to the tongue.

When the Secret Wikipedia Puppet Government, aided by the Men In Black,
finally pulled the plug on this hatch--excuse me, this embarrassment to
Wikipedia, a thousand thousand gamers rose up in complaint.  "That
asshole Thompson wins again!", they cried.  "Wikipedia under the control
of a Secret Wikipedia Puppet Government, aided by the Men in Black!",
they cried.  "I credit my 'blog.  That's enough for me to argue that
Thompson is a Satanist, right?", they cried.  "Ow, I just stood up for
the first time in seventy-two hours and my knee joints cracked!", they
cried.

This seems to me a good case of "jury nullification": we asked for an
opinion, we got utter bollocks in return, we said, "actually, let's not
do what they said after all."

[0] Although I know a few people who obsess over Transport Tycoon or
     Championship Manager, and there's even a few Tetris tragics out
     there.

--
Mark Gallagher
"What?  I can't hear you, I've got a banana on my head!"
- Danger Mouse


from_name: Daniel P. B. Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20

body:
> From: Jesse W <jessw at netwood.net>
>

> \However, many bad pages created are not created in bad faith - the
> people who create them are not vandals.  People who think the
> encyclopedia would benefit from an article on their novel theory of
> history, or their new company, or this fascinating new website they
> just came across - *are* *not* acting in bad faith, and *are* *not*
> intending to damage the 'pedia (although, in fact, they are), and so
> *are* *not* vandals.

When anyone who creates a new article, a message above the edit box
is displayed which reads:

"Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about
yourself, your friends, your company or products; or articles created
as part of a marketing or promotional campaign, may be deleted in
accordance with our deletion policies."

Anyone who goes ahead anyway and creates an article promoting their
new company most certainly _is_ acting in bad faith.


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

body:
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 12:07:07AM +0200, Ulisse Savi wrote:
> >> PHP 5 IS SUFFICIENT !!!
> >> I DON'T NEED 5.1
> >
> > Good for you. Off you go, then.
>
>
> "Off you go".
> It is a little offensive that you use this words.

I rather suspect Rob *meant* it to be offensive; you've been being
*quite* annoying in the tone of your postings.  Someone used the word
"shrill"; I think that was entirely accurate.

> Yes. Wikipedia dumps are for 1.7. And, AT THE MOMENT,  the unique stable
> version is 1.6.

Not anymore.

> Only 50/60 servers use php 5.1.4.2 in the entire internet and
> some articles tell that 1.7 require 5.1 and some other that it is not
> required (and 5 is sufficient).

brion just posted the release announcement.  It says that 5.0 *might*
possibly work, if you're brave, and motivated.

> Your words are a little offensive for me.  You are a little badly educated

Not at all.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

     A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
     Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

     A: Top-posting.
     Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?


body:
On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 11:17:33PM +0100, Rob Church wrote:
> > Only 50/60 servers use php 5.1.4.2 in the entire internet and
>
> 60% of all statistics, including this one, are pulled from people's
> rear ends. Fascinating little world, isn't it?

No, Rob; that's:

"86.5% of all statistics people quote are made up on the spot, a number
that rises to 92.73% for any statistic with more than one decimal."

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

     A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
     Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

     A: Top-posting.
     Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?