from_name: Jeff Raymond

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:

> This would open up a whole different can of worms:  Ownership.  The
> scope for editing images is not as wide as for text, so a person
> uploading an image is less likely to have another editor come along and
> turn it into something else, and using that as a basis for an edit war.
> Thus it is easier to give personal credit to a Wikipedian for a
> photograph.

True.  But no one's really claiming "ownership" here as much as credit.
  will people confuse the two?  Sure, but people already do.

>
> With text, however, we have long held the notion that it may be brutally
> edited  I don't think that any of us wants to deal with the situation
> where an editor defends his own text on the grounds that his prose style
> is better than anyone else's.

Ever been to WP:FAC? d;-)

Also, Merry Christmas to all celebrants.

-Jeff

--
Name: Jeff Raymond
E-mail: jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com
WWW: http://www.internationalhouseofbacon.com
IM: badlydrawnjeff
Quote: "As the hobbits are going up Mount Doom, the
	Eye of Mordor is being drawn somewhere else."
	- Sen. Rick Santorum on the war in Iraq.


list: foundation-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Aphaia

subject:
[Foundation-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric policy affects
	other communities

body:
On 12/24/06, Michael Noda <michael.noda at gmail.com> wrote:
> > All in all, my conclusion is very much that, yes people say that the policy
> > is wrong, but no they do not want to accept that things will change. This
> > leads me to conclude that people in the English language Wikipedia see
> > themselves as a rule onto themselves and will not really consider the
> > arguments of others.
>
> This statement is very hurtful to those of us who are en editors who
> are making every effort to find an amicable solution to this
> unfortunate situation.  I beg you to retract or qualify it.

I would appreciate Kim Bruning who submitted a request of re-changing
username on the behalf of ?, who was forced to change his former
username and had been blocked.

I am feel sorry no English bureaucrat seems to take care this requests
and intentionally left it as if he were untouchable and processed
other all requests, without any reasonable comment of such omitting.

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


list: wikimedia-l


list: wikien-l

from_name: Bogdan Giusca

subject: [WikiEN-l] Crediting images inside the article text

body:
Sunday, December 24, 2006, 6:36:55 PM, Anthony wrote:

>> 2) It's a terrific vandalism tool which is, I believe, why wikia turned it off.
>>
> Considering the ability to "remove_credits", I don't see why it's any
> better of a vandalism tool than any other.  Care to elaborate?

> (according to http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Attribution, it was
> removed for performance reasons)

I think there should be something similar for images: the author could
be extracted from the template found in the commons/en.wiki image description
page.

My objection is against mixing encyclopedic content with credits.


from_name: James Hare

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
Irrelevant conversation.

Get back on task.

On 12/24/06, Oldak Quill <oldakquill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 24/12/06, Tom Tolnam <ttolnam at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 24/12/06, Tariq Ab- Jo- Tu- <tariqabjotu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Why not? Not everyone celebrates Christmas; the majority of the world
> is
> > > not Christian.
> >
> >
> > As I remember, 3 billion Christians in the world over 6 billion total
> > population equals a close minority or a close majority.
> >
> > However, this is not important.  I used unverified figures sure to be
> > controversial, and probably incorrect.  Despite this, Christianity IS
> the
> > largest religion.
>
> It might be the largest religion, but what of it? At 2 billion
> followers, it's still a minority religion.
>
> --
> Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: wiktionary-l

from_name: GerardM

subject: [Wiktionary-l] On Christmas eve ..

body:
Hoi,
At OmegaWiki we have been given a most precious present for Christmas 2006.
Leftmost finished the first iteration of the part of speech software. We now
have the ability to indicate what parts of speech are to be associated with
a language. We now have the ability to associate a word of a language with
parts of speech that has been indicated in this way.

On the expression "lexical item" options can be added. This way you can
associate a part of speech with a language. In a next stage we will be able
to associate further attributes with a particular part of speech like
inflections or genders.

At this moment I am happy because we have made a new big stride forward. I
thank everyone who has helped OmegaWiki to get this far.

I wish you all a merry Christmas.

Thanks,
     GerardM

http://www.omegawiki.org/Expression:Merry_Christmas


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:47:12 -0500, Tariq Ab- Jo- Tu-
<tariqabjotu at gmail.com> wrote:

>And I won't even touch this statement -- "the birth of the
>world's most famous Jew"

Absolutely.  Woody Allen was born earlier in the month.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Earle Martin

subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyright Violation Bot

body:
On 24/12/06, Chris Picone <ccool2ax at gmail.com> wrote:
> People don't realize how serious a problem this is... I've been
> noticing this for months, and I want to give Earle Martin a million
> barnstars for writing this

Aw shucks!

> (it inspired me to start learning Perl so I
> can write an automated, newpages based one... hint hint)

Flattery will get you nowhere... on the other hand, a programming
challenge often will :) I may have a go at this one come the new year.

Merry Christmas or local/cultural equivalent!

Earle

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


subject: [WikiEN-l] "Assume good faith" is no longer policy.

body:
On 22/12/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 22/12/06, Earle Martin <wikipedia at downlode.org> wrote:
> > See also http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?AssumeGoodFaith
>
> 500 error! Anyone got a copy?

For anyone coming across this now, Meatball is back up.

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


from_name: NSLE (Wikipedia)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Main Page Featured Article

body:
So, it looks like we've had a fresh attack today (around 15:50 UTC December
24). I am aware that there's now a BugZilla request -
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8322 - and Brion's reply is
worth noting...

The obvious way to fix this would break the actual purpose of <includeonly>,
> which is to keep special links such as category links meant to belong to
> target pages from being indicated on the template page.


list: wikitech-l

from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-12-25

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/maintenance/parserTests.txt"...
Running test TODO: Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test Thumbnail image caption with a free URL... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A ISBN with a thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A RFC with a thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A mailto link with a thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887: A <math> with a thumbnail- we don't render math in the parsertests by default,
so math is not stripped and turns up as escaped <math> tags.... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test Image caption containing another image... FAILED!
Running test Bug 3090: External links other than http: in image captions... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test Fuzz testing: image with bogus manual thumbnail... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!
Running test TODO: 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line... FAILED!
Running test TODO: dt/dd/dl test... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Images with the "|" character in the comment... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, without trailing slash or name.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, with lots of extra trailing slashes.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Don't fall for the self-closing div... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Always escape literal '>' in output, not just after '<'... FAILED!

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/extensions/Cite/citeParserTests.txt"...

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/extensions/Poem/poemParserTests.txt"...

Passed 455 of 482 tests (94.4%)... FAILED!


body:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:01:39 -0500, Jeff Raymond
<jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote:

>True.  But no one's really claiming "ownership" here as much as credit.
>  will people confuse the two?  Sure, but people already do.

I'd say credit if it's a famous photographer, otherwise not.

Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Cite-sorting project?

body:
Chris L?er wrote:
> BTW, are there any plans for a bibliographic database? Something like
> BibTex meets MediaWiki.
>

Here's something I floated after the chat in #openaccess on 2006-12-17/18:

<Alphax> possibly a silly idea for a new project - a directory of
printed sources?
<Alphax> no, I mean a user-edited directory of books on certain topics
<Alphax> wikibibliography or something

(this was after discussing with a librarian about how it's really hard
for students to find books on certain topics, etc.)

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Main Page Featured Article

body:
Steve Bennett wrote:
> On 12/21/06, Chris Picone <ccool2ax at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...except admin. Why can't trusted users handle admin? It's not like
>> admin is a big deal, so we should hand it out more liberally.
>
> Adminship lets you do lots of very different things, including
> protecting/unprotecting, accessing deleted revisions of pages,
> deleting pages, blocking users, rollback, modifying protected
> articles, templates, and stylesheets and more. This range of powers is
> so diverse that it's hard to even imagine one person actually needing
> them all.
>

Admins can:

* Delete, restore, view deleted revisions
* Protect and unprotect on various levels, edit protected
* Edit global interface (MediaWiki: namespace) and user interface (User:
space .js and .css files other than their own)
* Block, unblock users, IPs, IP ranges
* Rollback, rollback with bot parameter to remove from RC

This is from a technical point of view; the combination of these things
just makes it look like they can do a whole lot more.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject:
[WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric
 policy affects other communities

body:
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
>
>> "Peter Ansell" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> that situation screams the remains of british imperialism
>>> through and through?
>>>
>>>
>> Postage stamps come in two kinds: British stamps, in sets, at the
>> beginning of the album, and foreign ones all jumbled up at the back.
>> Any gibbon can tell you that...
>>
> Gibbons represents a particularly British form of monkey business.
>
> U. S. made albums put the U. S. stamps at the beginning of the album.
> These albums are regularly sold in Canada.  When he buys such an album
> in looseleaf format a Canadian collector's first act will be to refile
> that section under the letter "U".
>

I don't have one myself, but I imagine that Australian stamp albums have
the Australian stamps at the front...

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject:
[WikiEN-l] [Foundation-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric policy
	affects other communities

body:
On 20/12/06, Neil Harris <usenet at tonal.clara.co.uk> wrote:
> 2 make the alias visible in the user interface alongside the real
> username wherever it appears -- which should be relatively easy to do,
> since all the occurrences in the UI should be greppable, making this
> possibly just a search-replace job, something like (pseudocode)
>
>      "[[$USERNAME]]" --> "[[$USERNAME]] ([[$USERNAME|$LOCALALIAS]])"

Could we not just display the language where the user's account was
registered on any Wikipedia but that one? I.e, on en.wp I'm
[[User:Earle Martin]], but on jp.wp I'm [[en:User:Earle Martin]]. Oh,
and disable custom signatures on anything but the user's home
Wikipedia.

--
Earle Martin
            http://downlode.org/
http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/


from_name: Oldak Quill

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
On 24/12/06, Tom Tolnam <ttolnam at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24/12/06, Tariq Ab- Jo- Tu- <tariqabjotu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why not? Not everyone celebrates Christmas; the majority of the world is
> > not Christian.
>
>
> As I remember, 3 billion Christians in the world over 6 billion total
> population equals a close minority or a close majority.
>
> However, this is not important.  I used unverified figures sure to be
> controversial, and probably incorrect.  Despite this, Christianity IS the
> largest religion.

It might be the largest religion, but what of it? At 2 billion
followers, it's still a minority religion.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] The boundaries of OR (contd)

body:
Ken Arromdee wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, jayjg wrote:
>
>
>>Read your own words; "Seems like an obvious conclusion to me..." You
>>are drawing your own conclusions, rather than quoting others who have
>>drawn those conclusions. In addition, by definition it is a *novel*
>>conclusion; if it weren't novel, then you'd be able to quote someone
>>who had come to the same conclusion.
>>
>>
>That only applies if *any conclusion whatsoever* is original research.  But
>that's not true.  Otherwise it would be original research to say that someone
>is more than 5 feet tall if the source just said they are 6 feet tall.
>
>So you can't just say "that's a conclusion, so it's original research".  You
>need to figure out exactly what types of conclusions are and aren't allowed,
>and then show that this particular conclusion falls into the prohibited
>category.
>
>I would argue that an *obvious* conclusion falls into the permitted category.
>The whole reason we accept conclusions like "he is 6 feet tall, therefore
>he is more than 5 feet tall" is that they don't require specialist training
>to make, and that nobody could seriously deny they are true--in other words,
>we accept such conclusions because they are obvious.
>
Of course what requires specialist training is debatable.  I have just
encountered an interesting (if perhaps trivial) example.  I have to-day
finished reading the light murder mystery "Ambrose Bierce and the Trey
of Pearls".  This author likes to build his stories around historical
persons in the San Francisco of the 1890s.  This particular novel is
written in the style of a journalist's notebook with a series of dated
entries.  Two successive entries are dated Sunday, February 28, 1892 and
Monday March 1, 1892.  The problem is that he ignored the fact that 1892
was a leap year..  Would anybody consider knowledge of the calendar
specialized knowledge?

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] The boundaries of OR (contd)

body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:46:03 -0800, Ray Saintonge
><saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>To use NOR as a bare tool to
>>excuse the omission of information is a perversion of the basis for
>>having that guideline in the first place.
>>
>>
>Depends on context.  If the people pushing a very minor fringe theory
>don't include sources, there really is no problem with removing it.
>
Exactly.  It was for this kind of situation that the rule was
formulated.  Actual application  hasd sometimes gone to extremes.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] The boundaries of OR (contd) (Ray Saintonge)

body:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:

>(Of course we get back into murky territory if someone asserts that
>the book is not in the online catalog, but nevertheless can be found
>on the the shelves, third floor of the stacks, two rows from the
>back, sixth set of stacks, fourth shelf, sixteenth from the left in a
>dull red binding, catalog number QQXXZZ-12345).
>
Yes.  The catalog number should be relatively constant, and be the basis
for further searches.  The described position will remain the same until
someone moves it to the next shelf as a part of a tidying up program. :-)

Ec


list: commons-l

from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject: [Commons-l] English Wikipedia needs some help.

body:
I think that one of our sister projects, the English Wikipedia, is
feeling a little ill and needs some help.

There is a vote going on about for a proposal which would dramatically
increase the amount of Fair Use Image permitted by policy in the
English Wikipedia. I'm not asking anyone here to go stack the poll,
especially since the poll count won't matter anyways.

I'm asking you to step in and help some of our newer contributors
understand [[Free content]].

Jimbo has already commented on the proposal:

"This is horrifyingly bad proposal which would reverse one of the
healthiest trends in the history of Wikipedia at the very moment when
major successes are being had every single day. We should NOT rely on
promotional images under unclear license conditions for a number of
reasons. First, we are powerful enough now to demand, and get, freely
licensed promotional images. This proposal undermines our credibility
in making such demands. Second, we undercut all the flickr-types who
are very very happily trying to create freely licensed alternatives.
Many photographers report that it is a lot of fun to see an article
improve from no picture, to *their* picture (freely licensed), and
disheartening when people whine about not being able to use the
professional photo, licensing be damned.

I very very strongly oppose this proposal.--Jimbo Wales 21:33, 23
December 2006 (UTC)"

To an extent this proposal is a reaction to some of the more recent
attempts to reduce the amount of excessive non-free material in
enwiki... but I fear the greater cause of this is the massive influx
enwiki has had over the last year.

These new users are familiar with sites like YouTube and MySpace and
the rampant copyright violations all over them, many started their
involvement with computers with things like Napster. They have a very
expansive idea of what Fair Use is which is inconsistent with the law.
This gives me great hope for the future of fair use law, but great
fear for the future of English Wikipedia.

They have learned wiki-ways much faster than they have learned of the
importance of Free content and I fear that if we do not educate them
now we will suffer an [[Eternal September]].

A failure of our most largest and prominent community to maintain a
commitment to truly free content, I fear, will not be contained to
just one project.

And example of this problem can be seen here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Elimination_of_Fair_Use_Rationale_in_Promotional_Photos/Vote#The_heart_of_the_matter

In the post below we see a newish (July 2006) user claim that the
discouragement to use fair use is a totally new event and, well, also
an evil plan by Jwales to line his pockets with money!

I'm asking here because:
* Of all the foundation projects, I think commons has the densest
concentration of active english speakers who truly understand and care
about Free Content.
* The character of the enwiki community does have a big influence on
us at commons.. They provide us with users, they are our customers,
and more than any other single group, they pick the board of the
Wikimedia Foundation.

So please, take a look at the threads.. Find some people who are
confused. Engage them in discussion, on the talk page I've linked
above.. or on their user talks.

Thank you in advance for your time and help,
[[commons:User:Gmaxwell]]


from_name: W. Guy Finley

body:
Thanks Greg, I missed it as well.

In fact, the Tool photo listed is the perfect example of this "I want
the pretty studio photo" mentality gone awry.  There's a plethora of
images in he article already (almost all entirely fair use as well)
yet they have to have this one for whatever reason despite it being
prohibited by the owner of the image from their website (which I now
added to it).  Either that or it's pretty and it has the one band
member wearing an apron with painted mail genetalia, can't forget the
importance of that either.

--Guy

On Dec 25, 2006, at 6:27 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> I think that one of our sister projects, the English Wikipedia, is
> feeling a little ill and needs some help.
>
> There is a vote going on about for a proposal which would dramatically
> increase the amount of Fair Use Image permitted by policy in the
> English Wikipedia. I'm not asking anyone here to go stack the poll,
> especially since the poll count won't matter anyways.
>
> I'm asking you to step in and help some of our newer contributors
> understand [[Free content]].
>
> Jimbo has already commented on the proposal:
>
> "This is horrifyingly bad proposal which would reverse one of the
> healthiest trends in the history of Wikipedia at the very moment when
> major successes are being had every single day. We should NOT rely on
> promotional images under unclear license conditions for a number of
> reasons. First, we are powerful enough now to demand, and get, freely
> licensed promotional images. This proposal undermines our credibility
> in making such demands. Second, we undercut all the flickr-types who
> are very very happily trying to create freely licensed alternatives.
> Many photographers report that it is a lot of fun to see an article
> improve from no picture, to *their* picture (freely licensed), and
> disheartening when people whine about not being able to use the
> professional photo, licensing be damned.
>
> I very very strongly oppose this proposal.--Jimbo Wales 21:33, 23
> December 2006 (UTC)"
>
>
> To an extent this proposal is a reaction to some of the more recent
> attempts to reduce the amount of excessive non-free material in
> enwiki... but I fear the greater cause of this is the massive influx
> enwiki has had over the last year.
>
> These new users are familiar with sites like YouTube and MySpace and
> the rampant copyright violations all over them, many started their
> involvement with computers with things like Napster. They have a very
> expansive idea of what Fair Use is which is inconsistent with the law.
> This gives me great hope for the future of fair use law, but great
> fear for the future of English Wikipedia.
>
> They have learned wiki-ways much faster than they have learned of the
> importance of Free content and I fear that if we do not educate them
> now we will suffer an [[Eternal September]].
>
> A failure of our most largest and prominent community to maintain a
> commitment to truly free content, I fear, will not be contained to
> just one project.
>
> And example of this problem can be seen here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Wikipedia_talk:Elimination_of_Fair_Use_Rationale_in_Promotional_Photos
> /Vote#The_heart_of_the_matter
>
> In the post below we see a newish (July 2006) user claim that the
> discouragement to use fair use is a totally new event and, well, also
> an evil plan by Jwales to line his pockets with money!
>
> I'm asking here because:
> * Of all the foundation projects, I think commons has the densest
> concentration of active english speakers who truly understand and care
> about Free Content.
> * The character of the enwiki community does have a big influence on
> us at commons.. They provide us with users, they are our customers,
> and more than any other single group, they pick the board of the
> Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> So please, take a look at the threads.. Find some people who are
> confused. Engage them in discussion, on the talk page I've linked
> above.. or on their user talks.
>
> Thank you in advance for your time and help,
> [[commons:User:Gmaxwell]]
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l


from_name: David Ashby

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikiasari

body:
http://news.google.com/news?q=Wikiasari&btnG=Search+News

Anyone else reminded of DMOZ?  What is this, exactly?  (Besides
perhaps not *quite* on topic for this list).

-david


from_name: daniwo59 at aol.com

body:
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. It is quite remarkable how  far
we have strayed from our original mission and sacrificed our position in the
forefront of the free culture movement for the sake of some "easy way out."
It's  time that we reclaim the high ground.

Danny
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body:
Considering this thread, I want to report on the story of Terry, otherwise
known as [[User:Googie man]]. Terry has two passions, baseball and photography,
 and he knows a lot about both. He is also a veteran Wikipedian, from the
days  before there even was a Wikipedia.

Looking through his contributions,
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Googie_man_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Googie_man) ,  you will see that Terry has contributed some amazing free images of
baseball  players (and other subjects). He lug his camera equipment to the
games, takes  the pictures, and spends hours cleaning them up to make them high
quality,  wikipedia-worthy FREE images. He then gets into endless arguments
with people  who would rather have "professional" images instead of the ones he
took. It is  frustrating.

Since we are discussing free images, I just want to point out that we need
more people like Terry, not like the people who go out and rob copyrighted
images under the claim of fair use. After all, that's what this project is all
about. He shouldn't have to argue with people in defense of his images.

Danny
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from_name: Parker Peters

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
On 12/24/06, Peter Ansell <ansell.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 25/12/06, Parker Peters <onmywayoutster at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do we really have to deal with antisemitic bastard behavior the day
> before
> > most of the world celebrates the birth of the world's most famous Jew?
> >
> > I mean, seriously. This kind of racist POV-pushing is bad enough on
> > wikipedia, now we have to deal with it on the ML and at this time of
> year?
> >
> > Shame on you.
> >
> > Parker
> >
>
> As far as I remember, you supposedly got over dealing with it on
> wikipedia (onmywayout...) etc. Why do you feel the compulsion to do it
> here? Racist is using the word antisemitic and denying the equivalent
> use of antimuslim-itic (or what ever term is appropriate). Either get
> over calling people names or actually leave like you threaten to.
>
> Peter Ansell

I was gone over two months, and still haven't returned to Wikipedia, and
I'll thank you now to stop trying to flame me.

Racism is the kind of behavior that Israel and Israelis face on a regular
basis, and the fact that we have editors always trying to POV our articles
related to Israel into propaganda saying Israel is bad, Israel is evil,
yadda yadda is nothing new given that there are a decently large portion of
the world who seem to feel that they have some right to do this.

Or did you miss the grand "the holocaust didn't happen" party in Iran the
other week?

Don't be [[WP:DENSE]].

Parker


subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikiasari

body:
It's a search engine, but done wiki-style for the people because automagical
search engines are too easily gamed.

It has nothing to do with Wikimedia or Amazon -- it's just a Wikia thing.

On 12/25/06, David Ashby <humble.fool at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://news.google.com/news?q=Wikiasari&btnG=Search+News
>
> Anyone else reminded of DMOZ?  What is this, exactly?  (Besides
> perhaps not *quite* on topic for this list).
>
> -david
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Birgitte SB

subject: [Foundation-l] On hard-to-read usernames

body:
--- Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:

> Certain recent threads have become very deep and
> it's hard to find the
> needles among the haystacks, so I thought I'd
> summarize a couple things
> and ask a couple questions.
>
>
> Background:
>
> There is some concern that usernames which are
> difficult to read due to
> using a different script from the rest of the wiki
> (such as a Japanese
> name on an English site, or a Russian name on a Thai
> site) can be
> difficult for administrators, and other wiki
> contributors, to deal with.
>
> For instance it can be hard to talk about some other
> user when you can't
> recognize their name.
>
>
> Conflict:
>
> There has been some fighting over this issue because
> some admins on
> en.wikipedia.org have taken to outright blocking of
> non-Latin usernames
> on that site so as not to have to deal with the
> issue.
>
> There is additional concern that this will become a
> more frequent issue
> in the future, as the introduction of a unified
> login system will make
> it easier for people to use their existing usernames
> they already
> registered on other wikis; thus there is more
> concern about solving the
> issue in the near future.
>
>
> Suggestions:
>
> Several suggestions were made in previous threads on
> ways to make it
> easier to recognize and deal with such 'foreign'
> usernames. In no
> particular order, these include:
>
> * Display a user ID number alongside the name
>
> A possible example history line:
>
> (cur) (last) 10:09, 24 December 2006
>    Brion VIBBER (#51 | Talk | contribs | block)
> (word to the wise)
>
> This is relatively simple, and relatively culturally
> neutral, if not
> particularly visually attractive.
>
> The ID number could be either the local account
> number (this is
> displayed in Special:Preferences) or, after unified
> login (SUL) is
> introduced, a global account number which would be
> the same on all wikis.
>
> An example of a site that behaves this way is
> slashdot.org, which
> displays the user ID number next to the username in
> post headings.
>
> User IDs are possible to use in a few special-page
> forms that deal with
> accounts in part to work around the occasional
> 'can't figure out how to
> pass this username around to people' issue. It may
> be logical to extend
> that.
>
> One thing to consider is that low or high id numbers
> may indicate
> relative age of an account, which may affect
> perceived prestige or
> trustworthiness. This might be considered a useful
> heuristic, or
> alternatively it might be considered
> anti-egalitarian to display the
> number so widely.
>

With all respects to GerardM, I believe this would be
generally acceptable to most people.  Making this
feature of displaying numbers a preference which can
be turned off would be a nice gesture towards those
who would rather not see editors in numerical terms.

>
> * Display a transliteration of the name into Latin
> or local script
>
> A possible example history line:
>
> (cur) (last)  10:43, 24 December 2006
>    ???????????? (Hoippu | Talk | contribs)
>
> Transliteration is tricky at the best of times.
> While approximations
> good enough to 'get an idea what you're looking at'
> might not be
> entirely impossible, there is some concern that they
> will be perceived
> as culturally biased or incorrect.
>
> More generally, transliterations would not be
> unique, and so don't
> necessarily serve as well for passing around in
> links or typing into forms.
>
>

I believe this system is too problamatic. The lack of
unique transliterations mentioned above is a major
problem.  Another large difficulty is although most
languages have standards for transliteration in latin
to some degree, the standards of translitaration
between non-latin fonts may be much less developed.  I
do not see how we can offer this reliably across all
Wikimedia wikis.

> * Use easily-changable 'nicknames' more extensively
>
> Possibly combined with a default transliteration
> mode, this could allow
> people using a common primary username to choose a
> more 'friendly' nick
> to be displayed and used more widely in the user
> interface than the
> current nickname option for talk page signatures.
>
> In some ways the simplest implementation of this
> might be to provide a
> way to link accounts, so the software can visibly
> verify that they
> belong to the same person, which brings us to:
>
>

If I understand this correctly this is like the
transliteration option but allowing people to use any
nick they like rather only a pure transliteration of
the user name.  I see this a basically allowing a
"signature" feature to the machine generated portions
of the wiki.  I think this is the most palatable
solution.  Answering all problems while being the
least offensive to all sensibilities.  Although it
does create some new problems, I believe they could be
dealt with.  If this option incorperated a log of nick
changes I think it would be the perfect solution.
Places with large amounts of vandalism can enact a
policy prohibiting the changing of nicks after X
number of edits (or some time limit) without an RfC
and this can be enforced through the above mentioned
"nick log".  That would prevent vandals or problem
users from disguising themselves with an font likely
to be unreadable for a username and then frequently
rotating nicks.  A simpler solution might be to have
the "User Contributions" list show the nick used at
the time of the contributions.  This way anyone
suspicious of and editor can quickly check if they
previously used a different nick.

> * Multiple linked usernames
>
> This is for instance how IRC works; on Freenode my
> usernames "brion",
> "brion_away", "brion_work" etc are linked together
> so that I have the
> same password, and when I'm logged in as
> "brion_work" anyone can check
> and confirm that I really am "brion", not just some
> random guy who says
> he is the same brion.
>
> The upcoming single user login (SUL) system is
> designed to provide this
> linked-account guarantee for *the same name* on
> *different wikis*, but
> there can be some benefit to also demonstrating a
> linkage between
> *different names*.
>
> One example that would be useful is when someone
> wants to change their
> username just because they didn't like their old one
> very much. Right
> now they either just make a new account, which
> doesn't demonstrate the
> linkage provably, or they have to ask a "bureaucrat"
> to perform an
> administrative account rename for them.
>
> There would I think be some benefit to simply
> allowing people to create
> a new name for their account, and have the system
> say to anyone who
> needs to verify it that "yes this is the same user".
>
> In the context of "foreign" usernames, this would
> make it easy for
> people who are active on some other wiki to choose
> an additional name to
> work under which is more friendly to local readers.
>
>
> Possible concerns include a general unease with the
> idea that people
> might then be _forced_ to choose another name (for
> instance if their
> regular name gets banned on sight), or annoyance
> with people who might
> register many linked names and switch among them at
> whim, for instance
> to fit a mood. :)
>
>

This is also workable option, although not my
favorite.  Too many linked names will lead difficulty
in making posistive identifications.  And since they
may result in different username policies on different
wikis, it is not practicle to enforce any limit.
Although I am sure there is some way of making one a
"master acount" with will always show the
contributions and blocks of all daughters.  Then there
must be an automatic way of switching to the
appropriate daughter account when entering a wiki
forbiding the master account username.  I think making
this workable would more complex than allowing local
nicks, but please correct me if I am wrong about this.
 Also with the possibily of blocks continuing under
this system I think it will leave the most number of
people unhappy out of the three options I find to be
workable.

On the other hand I wonder which method you find most
desirable as a developer.  I think it would be best to
start with the system you would most like to implement
and see what objections there still are and how strong
these objections are.  Then only if these objections
cannot be answered should we move on to you next
favorite system and see if that can made acceptable.
Really most people (although I do recognize there are
exceptions) would be happy with any solution that
provides the benefits of SUL of all Wikimedia editors
while at the same time guaranteeing a readable unique
editor identification for all wikis.

Birgitte SB

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Simetrical

subject: [Wikitech-l] Thanks for the nice new CheckUser interface!

body:
On 12/25/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lovely, just what we've been after. I also heartily approve of the
> inclusion of a "reason" field.

You can thank Voice of All for writing the patch, and Brion for
reviewing, critiquing, and committing.  :)


from_name: David Gerard

subject:
[Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric policy
	affects other communities

body:
On 25/12/06, Aphaia <aphaia at gmail.com> wrote:

> processed. I would like to know if it is a sort of sabotage? Hopefully

I thought you left, after condemning everyone involved as racists.

- d.


from_name: Aphaia

body:
On 12/25/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> There has been strong support for SUL for a considerable time.  If it's
> technically ready let's just do it.  The inconvenience of a handful of
> vandal fighters can be dealt with later.

Agreed.

Today in the early morning, I was asked if there would be possible
that he changes his username on English Wikipedia back. He was also
forced to change his username on English Wikipedia and later change on
other projects too for keep naming consistency; I had been not sure if
he was unwilling to change it or willing, but now the answer seems to
me clear. And he informed me there was the third person who had been
forced to change his username. And I would like to stress here both of
those two are trusted users to some extent. He implied there were more
such people, but only mentioned three including him.

There are people who would like to get back their original identity in
the letters of their own language with trust which they have
established through years.

On the other hand, despite all regret expressed, English Wikipedia
bureaucrats seem to prefer to continue forcing such users to have the
identification they forced from their love for Latin scripts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CHU#Qzzz_.E2.86.92_.E3.81.A3_.28review_previous_change.29
Strangely, the request about user:? submitted by Kim Bruning on his
behalf has been left for two days. while all other requests were
processed. I would like to know if it is a sort of sabotage? Hopefully
not. But there is no good evidence to know why, since this request is
just left without comment.

In purpose to respond the worried people on my projects I would like
to know why not. I hope you English Wikipedia bureaucrat would like
not to keep those people to be worried and frustrated through the
holiday seasons. In my opinion you cannot ask the people to show you
love, while you stump them with your foot heavily or show them your
indifference toward them.

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *


body:
On 25/12/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that one of our sister projects, the English Wikipedia, is
> feeling a little ill and needs some help.
>
> There is a vote going on about for a proposal which would dramatically
> increase the amount of Fair Use Image permitted by policy in the
> English Wikipedia. I'm not asking anyone here to go stack the poll,
> especially since the poll count won't matter anyways.
>
> I'm asking you to step in and help some of our newer contributors
> understand [[Free content]].
>
> Jimbo has already commented on the proposal:
>
> "This is horrifyingly bad proposal which would reverse one of the
> healthiest trends in the history of Wikipedia at the very moment when
> major successes are being had every single day. We should NOT rely on
> promotional images under unclear license conditions for a number of
> reasons. First, we are powerful enough now to demand, and get, freely
> licensed promotional images. This proposal undermines our credibility
> in making such demands. Second, we undercut all the flickr-types who
> are very very happily trying to create freely licensed alternatives.
> Many photographers report that it is a lot of fun to see an article
> improve from no picture, to *their* picture (freely licensed), and
> disheartening when people whine about not being able to use the
> professional photo, licensing be damned.
>
> I very very strongly oppose this proposal.--Jimbo Wales 21:33, 23
> December 2006 (UTC)"
>
>
> To an extent this proposal is a reaction to some of the more recent
> attempts to reduce the amount of excessive non-free material in
> enwiki... but I fear the greater cause of this is the massive influx
> enwiki has had over the last year.
>
> These new users are familiar with sites like YouTube and MySpace and
> the rampant copyright violations all over them, many started their
> involvement with computers with things like Napster. They have a very
> expansive idea of what Fair Use is which is inconsistent with the law.
> This gives me great hope for the future of fair use law, but great
> fear for the future of English Wikipedia.
>
> They have learned wiki-ways much faster than they have learned of the
> importance of Free content and I fear that if we do not educate them
> now we will suffer an [[Eternal September]].
>
> A failure of our most largest and prominent community to maintain a
> commitment to truly free content, I fear, will not be contained to
> just one project.
>
> And example of this problem can be seen here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Elimination_of_Fair_Use_Rationale_in_Promotional_Photos/Vote#The_heart_of_the_matter
>
> In the post below we see a newish (July 2006) user claim that the
> discouragement to use fair use is a totally new event and, well, also
> an evil plan by Jwales to line his pockets with money!
>
> I'm asking here because:
> * Of all the foundation projects, I think commons has the densest
> concentration of active english speakers who truly understand and care
> about Free Content.
> * The character of the enwiki community does have a big influence on
> us at commons.. They provide us with users, they are our customers,
> and more than any other single group, they pick the board of the
> Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> So please, take a look at the threads.. Find some people who are
> confused. Engage them in discussion, on the talk page I've linked
> above.. or on their user talks.
>
> Thank you in advance for your time and help,
> [[commons:User:Gmaxwell]]

Thanks for dropping the note - I have only been content-editing on
Wikipedia recently and had missed it.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


from_name: peter green

body:
> "This is horrifyingly bad proposal which would reverse one of the
> healthiest trends in the history of Wikipedia at the very moment when
> major successes are being had every single day. We should NOT rely on
> promotional images under unclear license conditions for a number of
> reasons. First, we are powerful enough now to demand, and get, freely
> licensed promotional images. This proposal undermines our credibility
> in making such demands. Second, we undercut all the flickr-types who
> are very very happily trying to create freely licensed alternatives.
> Many photographers report that it is a lot of fun to see an article
> improve from no picture, to *their* picture (freely licensed), and
> disheartening when people whine about not being able to use the
> professional photo, licensing be damned.
>
> I very very strongly oppose this proposal.--Jimbo Wales 21:33, 23
> December 2006 (UTC)"
what i don't understand is why he hasn't just veto'd it already, its quite within his power to do so.


body:
On 25/12/06, peter green <plugwash at p10link.net> wrote:
> what i don't understand is why he hasn't just veto'd it already, its quite within his power to do so.

Although I oppose the proposal, I'm glad he hasn't. Although the issue
is important, it isn't crucial so should be entirely up the community
to decide.

Jimbo has been taking steps away from his "God King" image to the
benefit of the project and the community. I admire him for this and it
shows the robustness of Wikimedia as a model.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill at gmail.com)


from_name: Magnus Manske

subject: [Wikitech-l] FYI : Yet Another Wikipedia Reader

body:
As you may know, the German Wikipedia has been published on DVD
several times now, the last one only a few weeks ago. This is thanks
to directmedia [1], a German company.

For this last release, they have changed their data format to
accomodate the sheer mass that is Wikipedia. Instead of their
(proprietary) reader software, they now use a software that acts as a
mini-server so one can read and search Wikipedia from DVD or harddisk
in the browser. While this mini-server is proprietary as well, they
have asked for the development of an open source implementation,
opening their format description [2].

DaB has written a version in Java, and I have started one in
C++/wxWidgets. I put mine into SVN, "yawr" (Yet Another Wikipedia
Reader). Article browsing with images works quite well already, and
I'm working on (fulltext!) search, some special pages, and a zillion
other things.

Just letting you know what that thing is I put in SVN, and inviting
everyone to help.

Merry Christmas,
Magnus

[1] http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de
[2] http://wiki.directmedia.de/index.php/ZenoReader/Open_Source


from_name: Peter Ansell

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
On 25/12/06, Parker Peters <onmywayoutster at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do we really have to deal with antisemitic bastard behavior the day before
> most of the world celebrates the birth of the world's most famous Jew?
>
> I mean, seriously. This kind of racist POV-pushing is bad enough on
> wikipedia, now we have to deal with it on the ML and at this time of year?
>
> Shame on you.
>
> Parker
>

As far as I remember, you supposedly got over dealing with it on
wikipedia (onmywayout...) etc. Why do you feel the compulsion to do it
here? Racist is using the word antisemitic and denying the equivalent
use of antimuslim-itic (or what ever term is appropriate). Either get
over calling people names or actually leave like you threaten to.

Peter Ansell


from_name: James Hare

subject:
[Foundation-l] Fwd: wikipedia: "wikiasaria" the p2p way,
	here: participation of the foundation in the new wiki project
	(cspace and yacy based)

body:
Wikiasari will be a service of Wikia, not the Wikimedia Foundation.

On 12/25/06, "Thomas M?ller" <thomasasta at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Brad Patrick, Mailinglist
> and local wikimedia/foundation responsibles.
>
> Jim wants to create a search engine for the wiki community as strong as
> google. To fight central authorized search engines like google and to
> support the community help of searches in the internet
>
> As it is good to have a wiki-relation, I sent the attached idea as well to
> you.
>
> I read, that wiki.com is financially independent from the wikifoundation.
> And that the new search-engine wikisari or wikiAsariA, dunno, is with the
> purpose of earning money with ads in cooperation of amazon.
>
> http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisari&meta=
> (yesterday google had only 5 results, today 238)
> http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisaria&meta=
> (today 307 results)
>
> Ok, maybe a parallel model or integrated model with the wiki-enterprise is
> possible in collaboration woith wikimedia foundation.
>
>
> The idea is, to use the p2p indexing search engine yacy (see link below).
> (speek blacky like jacky Onasis)
>
> Wiki and Amazon create some big servers and get a central webadress. Users
> can search the database (as a p2p node) from that central website and get
> advertisements. This central website is in cooperation with amazon and as
> well the amazon website gets a search box.
>
>
> Then.. as yacy search engine is a p2p engine, we need a lot of nodes,
> running yacy.
> To be strong as google we need at elast 20.000 peers running yacy. If
> there is less bandwith dedicated, we need maybe 50.000 users every minute
> online.
>
> The idea is now (already posted with a draft in the yacy forum) to combine
> yacy with an instant messenger, users always run, Yacy could be stick to the
> messenger as a deamon and doing the indexing job of websites.
>
> The bandwith for that could be adjusted with a slider in the Instant
> Messenger friendslist.
>
> As the friendslist CSpace could be used.  http://cspace.in
>
> CSpace is an open Source and SERVERLESS Buddylist (so no icq aol msn yahoo
> or google talk, which are all serverbased). Cspace is fully decentral using
> a dht kademlia lookup for the buddies online in a p2p style.
>
> If you stick both together, yacy and cspace, then users run it all the
> time and yacy could index and the buddylist coud offer as well a search box
> to run searches decentral on every computer direct accessing the p2p yacy
> network.
>
> Many users will use the buddylist cspace then from wikipedia and support
> this way the backgroud daemon yacy indexing websites.
>
> As well users then can acess the search engine using the wikiasaria
> homepage of amazon and wiki.com in a browser.
>
> Furthermore we can make of the new application (yacy + cspace) an toolabr
> for firefox, thunderbird and songbirdnest.com
>
> then we have the buddylist integrated and teh yacy background is doing
> website indexing in all the buddies an performing a big p2p net.
>
>
>
> Wikiasarias Idea is to add manual page ranking to the website index. This
> is already coded in yacy and a browser toolbar exists as well.
>
>
> We just need to distribute yay as a daemon of a budylist / Cspace and
> bring it into the community or into the branding of Wikimedia.
>
> Yacy is written in java, CSpace in Python, but a common gui or a
> XUL-Toolbar for firefox should be no problem.
>
> As both code branches exist, we have less money to take to get both
> together and bring the p2p net for buddies and website indexing out.
>
> If anyone needs futher ideas, write a feedback.
>
> Thanks for considering a plan, how to decentralize the search engines and
> websiteindex, in the wikimedia foundation baord,
>
> As I see, more then 300.000 Dollars are already donated, maybe a coding
> team can bring both applications into one gui and wiki can distribute it, if
> wiki.com or wikiasaria then supports this with a central wesite search (as
> a big serverfarm-node of the p2p network yacy) this would be a perfect
> cooperation.
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> tom
>
> PS1: Maybe you know the german-french search engine QUAERO project, which
> goal was to fight the majority of google.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero
> This project is broken and not done. So the need to have a community build
> search engine still exists.
>
> PS2: Besides now: Please forward this mail to the techical administrator
> lists of wikipedia, then each wiki server can set up a yacy node already
> today and display as well yacy searche ngine results, as well the node can
> index the wikimedia site of the individual country and get the external
> links as well, as they are already the manual edited best links for each
> wiki-article. Would be perfect, to see in each wikipedia the yacy saerch
> window as well to have an external search option as well. maybe the donated
> money could be used to have some big yacy servers as well.
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:39:14 +0100
> Von: "Thomas M?ller" <thomasasta at gmx.net>
> An: jwales at wikia.com
> Betreff: wikipedia: wikiasaria the p2p way
>
> Hello Jimmy,
>
> I want to suggest to do the wikiasaria the p2p way.
>
> There is alreay an open source software to have a p2p search engine to
> fight google.
>
> http://www.yacy.net/yacy/Demo.html
>
> You with the wikipedia background and amazon can support the open source
> java development.
>
> Then you can built a big server to acess this p2p net over a central
> homepage and place here the advertisements you need to earn money and found
> it (and all servers supporting this).
>
>
> YACY (speek Jacky like Blacky) is open source and could be customized to
> have an url rating from the users while they run an indexin node or aces
> your central webserver to search the index or make a toolbar (which already
> exists) to rate that page in the browser.
>
> Already many nodes of yacy start with the wikipedia urls and links
> indexing.
>
> To get the p2p indexing nodes popular, I suggested to have the indexing
> yacy node as an background deamon in an instant messenger, This could be
> Cspace, as it is serverless and open too. but it is python written, not
> java.
>
> Http://cspace.in
>
> If you need more proposal, how to code, I can send a draft of how they can
> interact.
>
>
> kind regards and if you like, sent feedback.
> Tom
> --
> Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
>
> --
> Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: Manuel Schneider

body:
> DaB has written a version in Java, and I have started one in
> C++/wxWidgets. I put mine into SVN, "yawr" (Yet Another Wikipedia
> Reader). Article browsing with images works quite well already, and
> I'm working on (fulltext!) search, some special pages, and a zillion
> other things.
There is also a reader written in C++ using the small C++-application server
tntnet.
It can already read and display the zeno file format (served via HTTP) and
will be able to use the Wikimedia XML dumps soon.

Currently there are some developers working on a port of tntnet to Windows
(using the poco classes to make it platform independent). As soon as the
ready will be ready I will enhance it with a little dock application which
will make it usable on a desktop system (as a HTTP daemon tntnet is now just
a plain console-based application).

--
Regards
Manuel Schneider

Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F?rderung Freien Wissens
Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
www.wikimedia.ch


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Japanese translation of ConfirmEdit.i18n.php

body:
Rob Church wrote:
>
> Please drop the whole, "I'm not a developer, why the hell should I
> co-operate with you" attitude.

Your assessment of the situation is highly unfair. There was no such
attitude in either the original posting or in Gerard's comment (which I
wholeheartedly agree with). Quite to the contrary, you (developers)
should drop this "Do everything exactly as /we/ want or we will ignore
your contribution and pretend it's useless to us" attitude.

If you do not have the technical means or competency to copy & paste a
little piece of text from a posting and submit it to MediaZilla (or
indeed SVN) yourself, then let someone else do it. Apparently, Brion has
already done it. But stop discouraging non-developers, *ESPECIALLY*
translators, from contributing.

Timwi


subject: [WikiEN-l] Hello

body:
Marc Riddell wrote:
> Getting back to the basic argument & to stay grounded in this, what is the
> argument some still have against, say, adding the Category: Cancer deaths &
> the Sub-category: Lung cancer into the same Article? OR, somehow having the
> software be able to gather all of the articles with the various cancer
> subcats. into one master Cancer deaths list?

This is a prime example of something I keep observing on Wikipedia.
There are loads of arguments to change something, and very few (if any!)
arguments to keep the current behaviour, and yet people still leave the
current behaviour simply because they are afraid of changing it. Even if
someone goes in and changes it, someone will change it back, simply
because "this is how we've always done it". This is the irrationality of
humans at work, and it's the main thing that discourages me from doing
anything big on Wikipedia as I used to in the past.

Timwi


body:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:

>"Daniel P. B. Smith" wrote:
>
>
>>Or even "the book was not found
>>in an online search of the Cornell University Library Catalog." If
>>the citation gives the details of the search, that gives the
>>opportunity for someone else to check and point out that the search
>>succeeds if you spell the title differently. Not at all impossible.
>>
>>
>Another issue: a particular promoter of a particular POV cites a book
>in support of his argument.  It is not a widely-circulated book.
>Others are unable to find the book, or, having found the book, unable
>to find the specific text supposedly quoted.  At some point we have to
>apply the "yeah, right" rule and remove it.
>
If he's promoting the POV he's at least hanging around long enough to be
asked questions.  We can at least ask him to be more specific in his
citations: the ISBN or publisher in the first case, the page number in
the second case.  If nothing happens the whole issue can be moved to the
talk page until we receive verification.  Being unable to track down a
stated source is a somewhat different from a negative assertion that
something doesn't exist.

Ec


subject:
[Foundation-l] English Wikipedia ethnocentric policy affects
 other communities

body:
Gerard Meijssen wrote:

>The same way you can identify a newbie on en.wikipedia; you look at the
>user contributions. NB it is vandal and not vandle.
>
 From the valley? ;-)

Ec


body:
On 25/12/06, peter green <plugwash at p10link.net> wrote:

> > "This is horrifyingly bad proposal which would reverse one of the
> > I very very strongly oppose this proposal.--Jimbo Wales 21:33, 23
> > December 2006 (UTC)"

> what i don't understand is why he hasn't just veto'd it already, its quite within his power to do so.

Because he increases his power by not using it ;-)

- d.


body:
On 25/12/06, daniwo59 at aol.com <daniwo59 at aol.com> wrote:

> Thank you for bringing this to our attention. It is quite remarkable how far
> we have strayed from our original mission and sacrificed our position in the
> forefront of the free culture movement for the sake of some "easy way out."
> It's time that we reclaim the high ground.

Now that those of us with a clue are aware of it, we should be able to
use sweet reason this time.

(I'm a big fan of fair use being allowable on en:wp, but it's got to
have a *good* reason.)

- d.


body:
Lovely, just what we've been after. I also heartily approve of the
inclusion of a "reason" field.

- d.


subject: [WikiEN-l] When deletionism crosses a line

body:
On 12/25/06, Leif Knutsen <vyerllc at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to raise one specific and one general issue for discussion:
>
> 1) A recently created article about a newly appointed bishop in the Church
> of Norway was nominated by a self-described "disiplined deletionist" for
> speedy deletion. The nomination was subsequently defended on the basis that
> our standards for notability don't say anything about Norwegian bishops.
> Indeed, the standards don't say anything about religious leaders at all, but
> I have to imagine that common sense would lead a reasonable person to
> appreciate that one of the 11 top clergy of the official state church of
> Norway is notable. Should we either update the guidelines for biographical
> notability or impose some standard of common sense, to preempt this kind of
> zealotry?
>
> 2) I am known to take a broad definition of vandalism. I think it's any act
> that disrupts Wikipedia, perpetrated by someone who knows better. So when a
> seasoned editor creates a lot of work for a lot of other people on an issue
> that will surely go one way or another; or plays games with rules; or hides
> behind AGF, then we should be allowed to assume they're up to no good.
> Perhaps we should define bad behavior that falls short of vandalism but is
> still unacceptable. I nominate KNAVERY as the right term, as it goes to the
> saying "he's either a fool or a knave."
>
> And happy holidays and a great, productive Gregorian new year to everyone!
>
> Leif

Has the editor been informed of this person's standing in the Church?
Did the AFD page has this mentioned as a reason to keep?  Was the
article improved to include the importance?  *And was the article
still deleted?*  Passive-aggressive conflict resolution solves
nothing.

-david


subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikiasari

body:
On 25/12/06, James Hare <messedrocker at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a search engine, but done wiki-style for the people because automagical
> search engines are too easily gamed.
> It has nothing to do with Wikimedia or Amazon -- it's just a Wikia thing.

See http://search.wikia.com/ .

Jimbo has been chasing up as many cases of this as possible to point
out that it's nothing to do with Wikipedia at all, and tries to make
this clear on the above home page for it.

- d.


from_name: Sabine Cretella

subject: [Wiktionary-l] On Christmas eve ..

body:
Hi Danny,
Hi all,

First of all: Merry Christmas!

Well, one thing you should appreciate is: the OmegaWiki contents can be
used in any Wiktionary thanks to the double license GFDL and CC-BY. So
any step ahead that is done with OmegaWiki is also a step ahead for
Wiktionary. There is space for all projects and there are people who
feel at home on one or more of the various Wiktionary projects and there
are people who feel at home on one or more of the various Wikipedia
projects and there are people who feel at home on OmegaWiki as well as
many other valuable projects. Many of us work on various projects.

My personal way of doing thing is live and let live and, time
permitting, help others to live. The fact that OmegaWiki is not within
the foundation does not mean we do not co-operate, the contrary is the
case. I repeat: it is a project with free contents and we are happy to
co-operate with people to make things happen.

One thing all of us have in common is the believe in a better world, in
a world that gives equal chances to all, in a world with free contents
that help people to live better by having better possibilities for
study, information, education and so much more.

I think we all agree in that - otherwise: why would we work for the Open
Source and Open Content world? Aren't we idealists wanting to change the
world with each minute we dedicate to the various projects we are in?

At this stage I would like to say: Thank you! to all contributors of any
free project.

Well ... going back to play with my kids :-) I hope I will be able to
access Internet again later this evening.

Sabine

daniwo59 at aol.com schrieb:
> This is a Wikimedia mailing list. You should probably save the news for an
> Omega Wiki list.
>
> Danny
>

Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
 http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com


from_name: Kat Walsh

body:
On 12/25/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26/12/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It goes further than that. Until very recently it was:
> > Welcome to wikipedia the one "web 2.0" project that gives a damn about
> > copyright.
>
>
> That's the perfect intro.

Concur.

-Kat

--
Wikimedia needs you: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Fundraising
* *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage | (G)AIM:Mindspillage
mindspillage or mind|wandering on irc.freenode.net | email for phone


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

body:
On Mon, Dec 25, 2006 at 03:18:22PM +0100, Timwi wrote:
> Rob Church wrote:
> > Please drop the whole, "I'm not a developer, why the hell should I
> > co-operate with you" attitude.
>
> Your assessment of the situation is highly unfair. There was no such
> attitude in either the original posting or in Gerard's comment (which I
> wholeheartedly agree with). Quite to the contrary, you (developers)
> should drop this "Do everything exactly as /we/ want or we will ignore
> your contribution and pretend it's useless to us" attitude.

Ok; I'm gonna throw an oar in the water here.

Rob may have overstated the case.  But when a project gets big enough,
procedures which have evolved for certain tasks really do become
essential -- especially when some of the staff are volunteers.

It has nothing to do with a developer/non-developer schism; it's just
practicality.  Contributors are welcome to do things in other ways, but
they do run the risk of their contributions not getting into the
project's mainline.

This is true of almost every project that passes a certain size, not
just this one.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274


from_name: Leif Knutsen

body:
I want to raise one specific and one general issue for discussion:

1) A recently created article about a newly appointed bishop in the Church
of Norway was nominated by a self-described "disiplined deletionist" for
speedy deletion. The nomination was subsequently defended on the basis that
our standards for notability don't say anything about Norwegian bishops.
Indeed, the standards don't say anything about religious leaders at all, but
I have to imagine that common sense would lead a reasonable person to
appreciate that one of the 11 top clergy of the official state church of
Norway is notable. Should we either update the guidelines for biographical
notability or impose some standard of common sense, to preempt this kind of
zealotry?

2) I am known to take a broad definition of vandalism. I think it's any act
that disrupts Wikipedia, perpetrated by someone who knows better. So when a
seasoned editor creates a lot of work for a lot of other people on an issue
that will surely go one way or another; or plays games with rules; or hides
behind AGF, then we should be allowed to assume they're up to no good.
Perhaps we should define bad behavior that falls short of vandalism but is
still unacceptable. I nominate KNAVERY as the right term, as it goes to the
saying "he's either a fool or a knave."

And happy holidays and a great, productive Gregorian new year to everyone!

Leif


from_name: Angela

body:
On 12/25/06, James Hare <messedrocker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wikiasari will be a service of Wikia, not the Wikimedia Foundation.

No, it will not. Whatever Wikia will do with search will not be using
that name. Please don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
All of the reports about this are incorrect or exaggerated.

Angela


from_name: "Thomas Müller"

subject:
[Foundation-l] Fwd: wikipedia: "wikiasaria" the p2p way,
 here: participation of the foundation in the new wiki project
 (cspace and yacy based)

body:
Hi Brad Patrick, Mailinglist
and local wikimedia/foundation responsibles.

Jim wants to create a search engine for the wiki community as strong as google. To fight central authorized search engines like google and to support the community help of searches in the internet

As it is good to have a wiki-relation, I sent the attached idea as well to you.

I read, that wiki.com is financially independent from the wikifoundation. And that the new search-engine wikisari or wikiAsariA, dunno, is with the purpose of earning money with ads in cooperation of amazon.

http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisari&meta=
(yesterday google had only 5 results, today 238)
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisaria&meta=
(today 307 results)

Ok, maybe a parallel model or integrated model with the wiki-enterprise is possible in collaboration woith wikimedia foundation.

The idea is, to use the p2p indexing search engine yacy (see link below). (speek blacky like jacky Onasis)

Wiki and Amazon create some big servers and get a central webadress. Users can search the database (as a p2p node) from that central website and get advertisements. This central website is in cooperation with amazon and as well the amazon website gets a search box.

Then.. as yacy search engine is a p2p engine, we need a lot of nodes, running yacy.
To be strong as google we need at elast 20.000 peers running yacy. If there is less bandwith dedicated, we need maybe 50.000 users every minute online.

The idea is now (already posted with a draft in the yacy forum) to combine yacy with an instant messenger, users always run, Yacy could be stick to the messenger as a deamon and doing the indexing job of websites.

The bandwith for that could be adjusted with a slider in the Instant Messenger friendslist.

As the friendslist CSpace could be used.  http://cspace.in

CSpace is an open Source and SERVERLESS Buddylist (so no icq aol msn yahoo or google talk, which are all serverbased). Cspace is fully decentral using a dht kademlia lookup for the buddies online in a p2p style.

If you stick both together, yacy and cspace, then users run it all the time and yacy could index and the buddylist coud offer as well a search box to run searches decentral on every computer direct accessing the p2p yacy network.

Many users will use the buddylist cspace then from wikipedia and support this way the backgroud daemon yacy indexing websites.

As well users then can acess the search engine using the wikiasaria homepage of amazon and wiki.com in a browser.

Furthermore we can make of the new application (yacy + cspace) an toolabr for firefox, thunderbird and songbirdnest.com

then we have the buddylist integrated and teh yacy background is doing website indexing in all the buddies an performing a big p2p net.

Wikiasarias Idea is to add manual page ranking to the website index. This is already coded in yacy and a browser toolbar exists as well.

We just need to distribute yay as a daemon of a budylist / Cspace and bring it into the community or into the branding of Wikimedia.

Yacy is written in java, CSpace in Python, but a common gui or a XUL-Toolbar for firefox should be no problem.

As both code branches exist, we have less money to take to get both together and bring the p2p net for buddies and website indexing out.

If anyone needs futher ideas, write a feedback.

Thanks for considering a plan, how to decentralize the search engines and websiteindex, in the wikimedia foundation baord,

As I see, more then 300.000 Dollars are already donated, maybe a coding team can bring both applications into one gui and wiki can distribute it, if wiki.com or wikiasaria then supports this with a central wesite search (as a big serverfarm-node of the p2p network yacy) this would be a perfect cooperation.

Thanks a lot

tom

PS1: Maybe you know the german-french search engine QUAERO project, which goal was to fight the majority of google.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero
This project is broken and not done. So the need to have a community build search engine still exists.

PS2: Besides now: Please forward this mail to the techical administrator lists of wikipedia, then each wiki server can set up a yacy node already today and display as well yacy searche ngine results, as well the node can index the wikimedia site of the individual country and get the external links as well, as they are already the manual edited best links for each wiki-article. Would be perfect, to see in each wikipedia the yacy saerch window as well to have an external search option as well. maybe the donated money could be used to have some big yacy servers as well.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:39:14 +0100
Von: "Thomas M?ller" <thomasasta at gmx.net>
An: jwales at wikia.com
Betreff: wikipedia: wikiasaria the p2p way

Hello Jimmy,

I want to suggest to do the wikiasaria the p2p way.

There is alreay an open source software to have a p2p search engine to fight google.

http://www.yacy.net/yacy/Demo.html

You with the wikipedia background and amazon can support the open source java development.

Then you can built a big server to acess this p2p net over a central homepage and place here the advertisements you need to earn money and found it (and all servers supporting this).

YACY (speek Jacky like Blacky) is open source and could be customized to have an url rating from the users while they run an indexin node or aces your central webserver to search the index or make a toolbar (which already exists) to rate that page in the browser.

Already many nodes of yacy start with the wikipedia urls and links indexing.

To get the p2p indexing nodes popular, I suggested to have the indexing yacy node as an background deamon in an instant messenger, This could be Cspace, as it is serverless and open too. but it is python written, not java.

Http://cspace.in

If you need more proposal, how to code, I can send a draft of how they can interact.

kind regards and if you like, sent feedback.
Tom
--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


body:
Hi James,

Ok then the request is, that wikipedia and the foundation do the same.
Parallel to wikia.com & Amazon.
Get rid of the wikiasaria term and find a new one, e.g. "wiki-search.org",
"wiki-suche.de" and so on.
Besides that, the idea is as well still open to have next to the wikipedia search box a search box for yacy and with this a search for external internet links. Support yacy from the wikipedia, and distribute the p2p nodes over the buddylist cspace, as well with the brand wikipedia.
Both applications are in the hand of the users, as they are open and p2p decentral.

Both correlate to the mission, vision and first sentences of the foundation:

quote:

The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.

In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Foundation provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of charge, in perpetuity.

Kind regards.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 14:55:00 -0500
Von: "James Hare" <messedrocker at gmail.com>
An: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: wikipedia: "wikiasaria" the p2p way,	here: participation of the foundation in the new wiki project	(cspace and yacy based)

> Wikiasari will be a service of Wikia, not the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> On 12/25/06, "Thomas M?ller" <thomasasta at gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Brad Patrick, Mailinglist
> > and local wikimedia/foundation responsibles.
> >
> > Jim wants to create a search engine for the wiki community as strong as
> > google. To fight central authorized search engines like google and to
> > support the community help of searches in the internet
> >
> > As it is good to have a wiki-relation, I sent the attached idea as well
> to
> > you.
> >
> > I read, that wiki.com is financially independent from the
> wikifoundation.
> > And that the new search-engine wikisari or wikiAsariA, dunno, is with
> the
> > purpose of earning money with ads in cooperation of amazon.
> >
> > http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisari&meta=
> > (yesterday google had only 5 results, today 238)
> > http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikisaria&meta=
> > (today 307 results)
> >
> > Ok, maybe a parallel model or integrated model with the wiki-enterprise
> is
> > possible in collaboration woith wikimedia foundation.
> >
> >
> > The idea is, to use the p2p indexing search engine yacy (see link
> below).
> > (speek blacky like jacky Onasis)
> >
> > Wiki and Amazon create some big servers and get a central webadress.
> Users
> > can search the database (as a p2p node) from that central website and
> get
> > advertisements. This central website is in cooperation with amazon and
> as
> > well the amazon website gets a search box.
> >
> >
> > Then.. as yacy search engine is a p2p engine, we need a lot of nodes,
> > running yacy.
> > To be strong as google we need at elast 20.000 peers running yacy. If
> > there is less bandwith dedicated, we need maybe 50.000 users every
> minute
> > online.
> >
> > The idea is now (already posted with a draft in the yacy forum) to
> combine
> > yacy with an instant messenger, users always run, Yacy could be stick to
> the
> > messenger as a deamon and doing the indexing job of websites.
> >
> > The bandwith for that could be adjusted with a slider in the Instant
> > Messenger friendslist.
> >
> > As the friendslist CSpace could be used.  http://cspace.in
> >
> > CSpace is an open Source and SERVERLESS Buddylist (so no icq aol msn
> yahoo
> > or google talk, which are all serverbased). Cspace is fully decentral
> using
> > a dht kademlia lookup for the buddies online in a p2p style.
> >
> > If you stick both together, yacy and cspace, then users run it all the
> > time and yacy could index and the buddylist coud offer as well a search
> box
> > to run searches decentral on every computer direct accessing the p2p
> yacy
> > network.
> >
> > Many users will use the buddylist cspace then from wikipedia and support
> > this way the backgroud daemon yacy indexing websites.
> >
> > As well users then can acess the search engine using the wikiasaria
> > homepage of amazon and wiki.com in a browser.
> >
> > Furthermore we can make of the new application (yacy + cspace) an
> toolabr
> > for firefox, thunderbird and songbirdnest.com
> >
> > then we have the buddylist integrated and teh yacy background is doing
> > website indexing in all the buddies an performing a big p2p net.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikiasarias Idea is to add manual page ranking to the website index.
> This
> > is already coded in yacy and a browser toolbar exists as well.
> >
> >
> > We just need to distribute yay as a daemon of a budylist / Cspace and
> > bring it into the community or into the branding of Wikimedia.
> >
> > Yacy is written in java, CSpace in Python, but a common gui or a
> > XUL-Toolbar for firefox should be no problem.
> >
> > As both code branches exist, we have less money to take to get both
> > together and bring the p2p net for buddies and website indexing out.
> >
> > If anyone needs futher ideas, write a feedback.
> >
> > Thanks for considering a plan, how to decentralize the search engines
> and
> > websiteindex, in the wikimedia foundation baord,
> >
> > As I see, more then 300.000 Dollars are already donated, maybe a coding
> > team can bring both applications into one gui and wiki can distribute
> it, if
> > wiki.com or wikiasaria then supports this with a central wesite search
> (as
> > a big serverfarm-node of the p2p network yacy) this would be a perfect
> > cooperation.
> >
> > Thanks a lot
> >
> > tom
> >
> > PS1: Maybe you know the german-french search engine QUAERO project,
> which
> > goal was to fight the majority of google.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero
> > This project is broken and not done. So the need to have a community
> build
> > search engine still exists.
> >
> > PS2: Besides now: Please forward this mail to the techical administrator
> > lists of wikipedia, then each wiki server can set up a yacy node already
> > today and display as well yacy searche ngine results, as well the node
> can
> > index the wikimedia site of the individual country and get the external
> > links as well, as they are already the manual edited best links for each
> > wiki-article. Would be perfect, to see in each wikipedia the yacy saerch
> > window as well to have an external search option as well. maybe the
> donated
> > money could be used to have some big yacy servers as well.
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:39:14 +0100
> > Von: "Thomas M?ller" <thomasasta at gmx.net>
> > An: jwales at wikia.com
> > Betreff: wikipedia: wikiasaria the p2p way
> >
> > Hello Jimmy,
> >
> > I want to suggest to do the wikiasaria the p2p way.
> >
> > There is alreay an open source software to have a p2p search engine to
> > fight google.
> >
> > http://www.yacy.net/yacy/Demo.html
> >
> > You with the wikipedia background and amazon can support the open source
> > java development.
> >
> > Then you can built a big server to acess this p2p net over a central
> > homepage and place here the advertisements you need to earn money and
> found
> > it (and all servers supporting this).
> >
> >
> > YACY (speek Jacky like Blacky) is open source and could be customized to
> > have an url rating from the users while they run an indexin node or aces
> > your central webserver to search the index or make a toolbar (which
> already
> > exists) to rate that page in the browser.
> >
> > Already many nodes of yacy start with the wikipedia urls and links
> > indexing.
> >
> > To get the p2p indexing nodes popular, I suggested to have the indexing
> > yacy node as an background deamon in an instant messenger, This could be
> > Cspace, as it is serverless and open too. but it is python written, not
> > java.
> >
> > Http://cspace.in
> >
> > If you need more proposal, how to code, I can send a draft of how they
> can
> > interact.
> >
> >
> > kind regards and if you like, sent feedback.
> > Tom
> > --
> > Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> > Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
> >
> > --
> > Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> > Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


subject:
[Foundation-l] Fwd: wikipedia: "wikiasaria" the p2p way,
 here: participation of the foundation in the new wiki
 project	(cspace and yacy based)


from_name: Gregory Maxwell

body:
On 12/25/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not true any more though since youtube has clamped down a bit and I've
> run across suggestions of a myspace cleanup although I don't know a
> vast amount about myspace. It remains to be seen what effect these
> actions have on the web community though.

Youtube's efforts seem pretty superficial, although there are rumors
that they are making back-room deals with big media companies which
allow them to avoid getting sued into the dirt yet fail to compensate
any of the actual content creators (since they aren't actually
licensing the works, they are just buying temporary promises not to
sue).

Even if Youtube and all the other Web2.0 darlings did manage to clean
up their acts, we'd still be the only major site committed to Free
(like freedom) content rather than free (as in no cost to look at but
touch at your own peril) content.

(Youtube doesn't ask or allow uploaders to release their work under a
free license. Their upload page doesn't even include a strongly worded
instruction not to upload infringing content, rather they just tell
you that if you upload an infringement and they receive a takedown
notice that they will follow the procedure)


body:
Yep, I wrote that article!

I was especially sensitive to errors when I noted Jimmy Wales's blindingly
yellow notice on his website. What's worse is now we got Angela here saying
it won't even be called Wikiasari, or am I that lousy of a journalist that I
misinterpreted that, too?

In worst-case situation I slap a correction notice on the article and we all
move on.

On 12/25/06, the wub <thewub.wiki at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> On 25/12/06, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All of the reports about this are incorrect or exaggerated.
>
>
> Except hopefully this one -
>
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikipedia_founder_Jimmy_Wales_to_start_wiki-based_search_engine
> :-)
>
> the wub
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: Matthew Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
On 12/25/06, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) <newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> There will need to be a discussion about how to handle cases that are
> pending as of the time the new arbs take office.

I would imagine we'll handle it like last time: where arbitrators no
longer in office have voted on a case, they count as extra arbitrators
for those cases only, and majority is adjusted appropriately.

New arbitrators will be counted as recused for all currently open
cases unless they declare themselves un-recused for an individual
case; this saves them from having to read up on all open cases
immediately.

-Matt


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
jayjg wrote:

>On 12/22/06, Daniel P. B. Smith <wikipedia2006 at dpbsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>From: Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net>
>>>
>>>Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't see what that can't be broadened just a bit. For example,
>>>>let's suppose a library has an online catalog... let's say an online
>>>>catalog that's accessible to anyone. (Two that come to mind are the
>>>>Cornell University Library, and the 16,000-volume public library of
>>>>Bergen-op-Zoom in the Netherlands... well actually it seems to be
>>>>offline but it was available a few years ago).
>>>>
>>>>You can't prove a negative, but you can certainly say "his book is
>>>>not in the Cornell University Library" or whatever, and cite a link
>>>>to the search or a description of how to do the search. This doesn't
>>>>seem very different to me from a citation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>More precisely you can say that you could not find the book listed in
>>>the Cornell University Library Catalog.  It's not the same even though
>>>the correlation between the two statements will be strong.
>>>
>>>
>>Yes, I stand corrected. Quite right. Or even "the book was not found
>>in an online search of the Cornell University Library Catalog." If
>>the citation gives the details of the search, that gives the
>>opportunity for someone else to check and point out that the search
>>succeeds if you spell the title differently. Not at all impossible.
>>
>>
>No, the accurate statement is "This specific online search by Daniel
>P.B. Smith on this specific date did not return any results". And, of
>course, there's no guarantee that 1 minute after Daniel P.B. Smith
>does his search, the book will not be acquired, or entered into the
>catalog, or re-indexed properly because it had been improperly entered
>before, or...
>
Such tortuous prose is unnecesarry.  The library search results are
still secondary information with only indirect bearing on the subject of
the article.  If the work is added to the catalog one minute later, and
someone's verification efforts reveals this we will all be happy.  This
still doesn't help us if two minutes later the book is ripped off.  The
information is verifiable to the extent that someone else can run the
search independently.

>Once one is forced to make an *accurate* (non original research)
>statement, it starts looking ridiculous, and rightly so.
>
No original research is about being verifiable, not about being accurate.


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
To Tranche Gamma:
Flcelloguy
Kirill Lokshin
Paul August
UninvitedCompany
Jpgordon

To Tranche Beta
FloNight (Mindspillage's seat, from which she recently retired)
Binguyen (Filiocht's seat, as he is on indefinite leave)

----

Both Mindspillage and Filiocht are eligible to (re)-claim what would
then be expansion seat in Tranche Beta at anytime of their choosing
until 2008-12-31, when their original seats would have expired.


from_name: Tariq Ab- Jo- Tu-

subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
Correction: Blnguyen

Jimmy Wales wrote:
> To Tranche Gamma:
> Flcelloguy
> Kirill Lokshin
> Paul August
> UninvitedCompany
> Jpgordon
>
> To Tranche Beta
> FloNight (Mindspillage's seat, from which she recently retired)
> Binguyen (Filiocht's seat, as he is on indefinite leave)
>
> ----
>
> Both Mindspillage and Filiocht are eligible to (re)-claim what would
> then be expansion seat in Tranche Beta at anytime of their choosing
> until 2008-12-31, when their original seats would have expired.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>


subject: [Foundation-l] when uploading pictures to commons ....

body:
Gregory Maxwell wrote:

>On 12/22/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Sounds like blaming the victim.  Those who have less sophisticated
>>systems are often also the ones who have less sophisticated knowledge
>>about such things.
>>
>>
>Ignoring firefox bugs with SVGs for a moment (which really aren't
>related to image size so much)... is there *actually* an issue with
>low end systems *crashing* when they view large images?
>
>In order to test these complaints, I opened a 6000x7000 jpeg image on
>an old win95 box with 64 megs of ram without crashing.. although it
>was slow.
>
There are times when being slow is as good as crashing.  If after a full
minute of my old computer trying to download that image it remains
completely unresponsive it's quacking like a crash.  Things might have
improved if I had waited another minute, but I don't know that.

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
On 12/25/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> To Tranche Gamma:
> Flcelloguy
> Kirill Lokshin
> Paul August
> UninvitedCompany
> Jpgordon
>
> To Tranche Beta
> FloNight (Mindspillage's seat, from which she recently retired)
> Binguyen (Filiocht's seat, as he is on indefinite leave)
>

My congratulations and my sympathies to all of the new arbitrators!

-Kat

--
Wikimedia needs you: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Fundraising
* *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *  * *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage | (G)AIM:Mindspillage
mindspillage or mind|wandering on irc.freenode.net | email for phone


from_name: Oskar Sigvardsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] POV on Israel

body:
On 12/24/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> >And I won't even touch this statement -- "the birth of the
> >world's most famous Jew"
>
> Absolutely.  Woody Allen was born earlier in the month.

Badum-chunk!

Remember to tip your waitresses, JzG will be here all night!

--Oskar

(PS. I am myself indeed part of a growing movement of people
celebrating Woodymass, which we celebrate by quoting Strindberg at
length, mispronouncing Von Gogh and discussing negative space. And oh
yeah, once in our life we have to make a pilgrimage to Elaines)


from_name: xaosflux

subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
I for one welcome our new NPOV overlords!

xaosflux
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Wales" <jwales at wikia.com>
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

> To Tranche Gamma:
> Flcelloguy
> Kirill Lokshin
> Paul August
> UninvitedCompany
> Jpgordon
>
> To Tranche Beta
> FloNight (Mindspillage's seat, from which she recently retired)
> Binguyen (Filiocht's seat, as he is on indefinite leave)
>
> ----
>
> Both Mindspillage and Filiocht are eligible to (re)-claim what would
> then be expansion seat in Tranche Beta at anytime of their choosing
> until 2008-12-31, when their original seats would have expired.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)

subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)

body:
Congratulations to all the new arbitrators ... you were all excellent
candidates and rightly earned overwhelming community support. Please
don't let the high number of cases currently in the evidence phase
ready for you to work with scare you too badly before you even begin.

There will need to be a discussion about how to handle cases that are
pending as of the time the new arbs take office.

"Newyorkbrad"

On 12/25/06, xaosflux <xaosflux at gmail.com> wrote:
> I for one welcome our new NPOV overlords!
>
> xaosflux
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jimmy Wales" <jwales at wikia.com>
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 10:31 PM
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] ArbCom results... :-)
>
>
> > To Tranche Gamma:
> > Flcelloguy
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Paul August
> > UninvitedCompany
> > Jpgordon
> >
> > To Tranche Beta
> > FloNight (Mindspillage's seat, from which she recently retired)
> > Binguyen (Filiocht's seat, as he is on indefinite leave)
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Both Mindspillage and Filiocht are eligible to (re)-claim what would
> > then be expansion seat in Tranche Beta at anytime of their choosing
> > until 2008-12-31, when their original seats would have expired.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: the wub

body:
I added my "vote"

What we could really use is some kind of prominently linked page with an
introduction to the whole idea of free content, and _why_ Wikimedia projects
are free content. Bear in mind that for a vast number of users, Wikipedia
will be the first free content project they have met. The en.wp article
[[free content]] is often used for this purpose, but it isn't exactly ideal
and a page out the main namespace would certainly be better.
[[Wikipedia:Copyrights]] gives a reasonable explanation of the rules, but
does little to explain why they exist, and why they are a part of our
mission.

the wub
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from_name: David Gerard

body:
On 25/12/06, the wub <thewub.wiki at googlemail.com> wrote:

> What we could really use is some kind of prominently linked page with an
> introduction to the whole idea of free content, and _why_ Wikimedia projects
> are free content. Bear in mind that for a vast number of users, Wikipedia
> will be the first free content project they have met. The en.wp article
> [[free content]] is often used for this purpose, but it isn't exactly ideal

In fact, it's really terrible ...

> and a page out the main namespace would certainly be better.
> [[Wikipedia:Copyrights]] gives a reasonable explanation of the rules, but
> does little to explain why they exist, and why they are a part of our
> mission.

Yes. We need one. I think the job just found you ;-D

- d.