from_name: uninvited at nerstrand.net

subject: [WikiEN-l] More fodder for your editcountitis

body:
There are 661 admins on en.wikipedia.  Of these, 461 were active during
the month of October, 2005.  They deleted 60313 pages, blocked 12854
vandals, trolls, and socks, and protected 1227 pages.  691 pages were
undeleted.

User                 Delete Protect Block Unbl Unprot Undel Total
TheCoffee            7625   7       2     0    2      3     7639
Fvw                  211    11      1490  3145 8      6     4871
Curps                349    30      2734  93   4      12    3222
RedWolf              2710   0       1     0    0      11    2722
Jni                  2453   1       15    0    0      0     2469
RHaworth             1910   19      0     0    1      71    2001
Nv8200p              1834   0       0     0    0      2     1836
DragonflySixtyseven  1525   18      96    5    0      0     1644
R._fiend             1579   0       5     0    0      0     1584
Lucky_6.9            1165   33      261   18   1      2     1480
JesseW               1403   4       14    1    4      2     1428
Splash               1232   11      90    5    5      45    1388
JYolkowski           1295   1       19    1    1      1     1318
Who                  852    6       342   85   1      3     1289
Academic_Challenger  1243   9       18    0    0      0     1270
Francs2000           1122   11      48    1    0      11    1193
JIP                  943    5       101   1    0      1     1051
Drini                600    34      341   22   4      0     1001
AllyUnion            956    11      15    4    2      4     992
Vancouverguy         936    0       0     0    0      0     936
Wayward              715    0       2     0    0      0     717
Zscout370            537    24      68    17   6      11    663
SimonP               555    0       7     0    100    1     663
Zzyzx11              573    3       46    1    1      6     630
Evilphoenix          528    15      65    4    0      1     613
Thue                 570    2       35    0    2      2     611
Doc_glasgow          411    18      165   4    7      5     610
Brian0918            213    7       367   16   2      5     610
Ahoerstemeier        544    1       38    4    0      1     588
Petaholmes           453    45      26    1    41     2     568
Sjakkalle            488    3       40    16   2      7     556
Redwolf24            381    8       98    26   6      15    534
Android79            405    21      69    7    3      1     506
Rd232                476    0       3     0    0      4     483
Robchurch            367    1       58    4    0      7     437
Essjay               72     21      275   40   5      9     422
Joy_Stovall          375    2       32    3    0      0     412
Jtkiefer             155    22      183   28   3      8     399
Mindspillage         364    3       6     9    2      2     386
Vsmith               350    0       14    0    0      0     364
Allen3               359    1       1     0    0      3     364
UninvitedCompany     359    0       3     1    0      0     363
MarkSweep            73     8       263   12   0      2     358
Zoe                  187    2       139   5    0      15    348
Lupo                 263    3       70    4    0      0     340
Ixfd64               258    8       43    5    22     1     337
Ral315               152    16      149   12   5      1     335
Dbenbenn             330    0       1     0    3      0     334
Merovingian          301    2       18    0    1      1     323
A_Man_In_Black       273    7       18    6    2      16    322
Denelson83           296    7       12    1    1      0     317
Hall_Monitor         91     16      199   5    2      1     314
Cyberjunkie          283    1       14    1    1      2     302
Jimfbleak            250    1       38    11   0      0     300
Bluemoose            261    0       23    7    0      2     293
RN                   196    5       4     3    3      81    292
Fire_Star            213    6       71    2    0      0     292
Titoxd               251    1       34    3    0      1     290
Tony_Sidaway         9      65      9     5    190    11    289
Celestianpower       227    2       55    2    0      0     286
HappyCamper          155    24      66    18   12     9     284
OwenX                201    2       68    3    0      1     275
Shanes               194    1       65    0    11     1     272
PFHLai               83     105     3     0    78     3     272
Kbdank71             267    0       0     0    0      3     270
Lectonar             236    0       33    0    0      0     269
Brookie              240    2       23    0    0      2     267
Ingoolemo            239    0       2     2    0      3     246
Paul_August          243    0       1     0    0      1     245
Phroziac             111    9       85    25   10     2     242
Rdsmith4             56     9       160   12   1      3     241
JoJan                238    0       0     0    0      0     238
Angr                 192    11      23    1    6      4     237
Gamaliel             151    3       43    28   2      8     235
Bmicomp              181    4       36    5    4      0     230
Friday               226    0       0     0    0      1     227
Katefan0             139    12      59    10   4      2     226
Cdc                  210    1       2     1    2      0     216
Wikiacc              185    1       22    0    1      5     214
Moriori              180    0       34    0    0      0     214
David_Gerard         4      6       180   24   0      0     214
Jaxl                 204    0       8     0    0      0     212
Jitse_Niesen         208    0       1     0    0      0     209
Carnildo             181    4       16    6    0      0     207
Mailer_diablo        199    3       0     0    2      0     204
Tregoweth            184    0       19    0    0      0     203
Func                 0      2       191   7    1      0     201
Rich_Farmbrough      181    3       7     2    2      3     198
Journalist           171    2       22    0    1      0     196
Fawcett5             153    1       40    0    1      0     195
Thunderbrand         185    1       2     0    0      0     188
SlimVirgin           54     26      79    7    20     2     188
NicholasTurnbull     90     2       90    1    2      1     186
Geogre               182    1       3     0    0      0     186
Mikkalai             140    3       38    3    0      1     185
Carbonite            61     3       112   5    2      1     184
Ryan_Delaney         144    7       29    3    0      0     183
Sasquatch            68     6       85    20   0      2     181
Ulayiti              160    2       16    1    0      0     179
ChrisO               163    2       11    0    2      0     178
Nickptar             88     0       58    27   0      4     177
GregAsche            125    2       37    2    1      1     168
Flcelloguy           55     18      75    11   7      0     166
Linuxbeak            106    4       50    4    0      1     165
Ambi                 161    0       4     0    0      0     165
Burgundavia          162    0       0     0    0      0     162
Golbez               51     1       94    12   1      0     159
Adam_Bishop          143    1       11    3    0      0     158
RoySmith             152    0       0     0    0      1     153
Geni                 103    0       9     0    0      36    148
Durin                139    3       1     0    2      0     145
Chris_73             129    0       12    1    0      0     142
Rx_StrangeLove       128    0       13    0    0      0     141
Antandrus            76     0       61    2    0      0     139
Justinc              136    0       0     0    0      1     137
DESiegel             122    0       3     8    0      3     136
Madchester           85     0       48    2    0      0     135
Eugene_van_der_Pijll 132    0       0     0    1      2     135
Dmcdevit             20     14      70    3    27     1     135
Utcursch             133    0       0     0    0      1     134
CesarB               58     10      44    13   4      2     131
RobyWayne            122    0       8     0    0      0     130
Trevor_macinnis      34     1       89    2    1      1     128
BrokenSegue          108    1       10    0    8      1     128
Pharos               28     66      4     0    29     0     127
Deb                  124    0       1     0    0      1     126
Worldtraveller       113    3       6     0    3      0     125
Warofdreams          122    0       1     0    0      1     124
Bratsche             62     3       48    4    3      2     122
Kirill_Lokshin       116    0       1     0    0      1     118
Rama                 71     2       43    1    0      0     117
Mairi                111    1       1     0    0      3     116
Angela               103    0       9     1    1      1     115
Jossifresco          65     7       40    0    1      1     114
MacGyverMagic        99     4       1     3    1      0     108
Garzo                86     2       18    1    0      0     107
Raul654              32     45      19    2    6      1     105
Jtdirl               2      16      75    1    10     0     104
Secretlondon         99     0       2     0    0      0     101
Tomf688              97     0       0     0    0      1     98
Neutrality           88     1       6     1    1      0     97
Voice_of_All%28MTG%2 86     3       4     0    0      3     96
Scimitar             72     4       19    1    0      0     96
Sam_Korn             24     1       70    1    0      0     96
Duncharris           73     3       13    2    1      3     95
Mel_Etitis           53     6       31    1    3      0     94
Snowspinner          42     4       40    0    4      3     93
Radiant%21           78     2       6     2    1      2     91
Grutness             83     1       1     1    0      3     89
Andrevan             50     0       32    2    0      5     89
Theresa_knott        69     3       6     4    3      3     88
Jnc                  66     8       1     0    2      11    88
The_Anome            55     2       27    0    1      1     86
Postdlf              72     0       13    1    0      0     86
Woohookitty          77     2       6     0    0      0     85
Rhobite              19     4       55    5    2      0     85
Sango123             60     0       24    0    0      0     84
Ferkelparade         82     1       1     0    0      0     84
Delirium             82     0       2     0    0      0     84
RoyBoy               23     0       57    1    0      0     81
Khaosworks           11     2       56    12   0      0     81
Wikibofh             35     0       41    3    0      1     80
Karmafist            38     3       36    2    1      0     80
Willmcw              31     1       37    8    1      0     78
Malcolm_Farmer       76     0       1     0    0      0     77
Marudubshinki        12     3       60    0    0      1     76
Duk                  57     2       12    1    1      2     75
Jpgordon             60     0       12    2    0      0     74
Fastfission          74     0       0     0    0      0     74
UtherSRG             57     1       14    0    0      0     72
Grenavitar           72     0       0     0    0      0     72
Jayjg                7      6       50    8    0      0     71
Bishonen             35     1       24    8    1      1     70
Stormie              63     0       6     0    0      0     69
Premeditated_Chaos   68     0       1     0    0      0     69
DJ_Clayworth         63     0       4     0    0      0     67
FCYTravis            52     2       9     0    2      0     65
Evil_Monkey          43     1       16    1    1      2     64
Everyking            57     0       5     0    0      0     62
El_C                 6      0       53    2    1      0     62
Kzollman             53     0       0     0    0      8     61
Canderson7           40     0       20    0    0      1     61
CambridgeBayWeather  58     0       3     0    0      0     61
Ed_g2s               54     0       1     0    1      3     59
Slambo               51     6       0     0    0      0     57
Jcw69                40     0       16    0    0      0     56
Uncle_G              37     0       4     0    0      14    55
The_Epopt            53     0       0     1    0      1     55
Jengod               55     0       0     0    0      0     55
ABCD                 49     3       3     0    0      0     55
Jondel               47     3       1     0    3      0     54
Qaz                  53     0       0     0    0      0     53
Meelar               39     0       11    0    0      1     51
Jimbo_Wales          43     2       5     0    1      0     51
Dragons_flight       21     1       14    7    1      6     50
Changlc              3      0       45    2    0      0     50
Hajor                39     0       6     0    1      3     49
Starblind            45     1       1     0    0      0     47
Shauri               44     0       1     0    1      0     46
Finlay_McWalter      5      0       41    0    0      0     46
Seabhcan             33     1       9     2    0      0     45
BanyanTree           25     2       16    0    2      0     45
Rbrwr                44     0       0     0    0      0     44
Pjacobi              5      0       38    1    0      0     44
Xezbeth              40     0       2     1    0      0     43
Niteowlneils         39     0       2     0    0      2     43
Icairns              18     0       24    1    0      0     43
The_wub              38     0       3     0    0      0     41
Ta_bu_shi_da_yu      15     2       3     10   1      10    41
Solipsist            6      24      3     0    8      0     41
Jredmond             6      1       32    1    1      0     41
Hermione1980         41     0       0     0    0      0     41
Ssd                  39     0       0     0    0      0     39
Spangineer           19     4       12    0    3      0     38
23skidoo             37     0       0     0    0      1     38
Grm_wnr              25     0       8     3    0      0     36
Brighterorange       34     0       2     0    0      0     36
Nunh-huh             18     0       14    2    0      1     35
Filiocht             17     0       18    0    0      0     35
Quadell              28     0       6     0    0      0     34
Fred_Bauder          0      0       28    5    1      0     34
Jdavidb              17     1       13    1    0      0     32
FreplySpang          18     0       13    1    0      0     32
Bearcat              24     4       1     0    1      1     31
Texture              25     0       4     0    0      1     30
Talrias              2      3       18    5    2      0     30
Kelly_Martin         12     1       4     10   1      2     30
Henrygb              30     0       0     0    0      0     30
Hadal                21     0       9     0    0      0     30
Rmhermen             28     0       1     0    0      0     29
Zanimum              17     2       6     2    1      0     28
Nufy8                10     0       18    0    0      0     28
DavidWBrooks         24     0       4     0    0      0     28
Ed_Poor              4      3       4     9    5      2     27
Bumm13               22     1       3     0    1      0     27
RobertG              14     1       9     0    2      0     26
Oleg_Alexandrov      22     0       0     0    0      4     26
Davidcannon          5      2       8     8    0      3     26
Arwel_Parry          3      0       20    2    0      1     26
Alabamaboy           26     0       0     0    0      0     26
Nabla                23     0       0     0    0      2     25
Master_Thief_Garrett 15     2       7     1    0      0     25
CryptoDerk           3      0       22    0    0      0     25
Stan_Shebs           24     0       0     0    0      0     24
Olivier              24     0       0     0    0      0     24
Nichalp              12     0       11    1    0      0     24
Jfdwolff             18     0       4     1    0      1     24
David.Monniaux       10     0       14    0    0      0     24
Infrogmation         6      0       17    0    0      0     23
Charles_Matthews     19     0       4     0    0      0     23
Wile_E._Heresiarch   22     0       0     0    0      0     22
Morwen               19     0       3     0    0      0     22
Marianocecowski      21     0       1     0    0      0     22
Karada               6      1       13    1    0      1     22
Gadfium              12     0       8     1    0      1     22
AlistairMcMillan     20     1       1     0    0      0     22
Nandesuka            0      0       21    0    0      0     21
Mirv                 14     1       2     1    2      1     21
Taxman               9      0       8     0    1      2     20
Dvyost               20     0       0     0    0      0     20
Craigy144            20     0       0     0    0      0     20
Biekko               19     0       1     0    0      0     20
Acetic_Acid          13     1       6     0    0      0     20
TenOfAllTrades       3      2       11    3    0      0     19
Inter                12     0       6     1    0      0     19
Gyrofrog             15     0       3     0    0      1     19
Exploding_Boy        1      0       13    5    0      0     19
DropDeadGorgias      6      1       11    1    0      0     19
Arminius             17     0       1     1    0      0     19
Ragib                5      4       8     0    1      0     18
JeLuF                17     0       0     0    0      1     18
Homeontherange       6      0       7     2    0      3     18
Guettarda            8      0       9     1    0      0     18
FeloniousMonk        0      0       17    1    0      0     18
Redux                1      12      3     0    0      1     17
Pakaran              13     0       2     2    0      0     17
Mackeriv             9      2       3     2    0      1     17
Darwinek             15     0       1     0    0      1     17
Wiglaf               1      4       9     1    1      0     16
Violetriga           4      3       7     1    1      0     16
Mkmcconn             15     0       0     0    1      0     16
Jiang                12     0       1     0    0      3     16
Dbiv                 13     0       3     0    0      0     16
Timwi                13     0       0     0    1      1     15
Thryduulf            0      1       12    2    0      0     15
Ike9898              13     0       0     0    0      1     14
Gtrmp                12     0       0     0    0      2     14
Evercat              0      0       13    1    0      0     14
Wilfried_Derksen     10     2       0     0    1      0     13
Sn0wflake            7      1       4     0    1      0     13
Marine_69-71         4      4       3     0    2      0     13
Lacrimosus           3      1       8     0    0      1     13
K1Bond007            6      0       5     2    0      0     13
Rick_Block           11     0       1     0    0      0     12
Mzajac               11     0       1     0    0      0     12
Silsor               6      1       1     0    1      2     11
Gabbe                6      0       3     2    0      0     11
Danny                8      0       0     3    0      0     11
Chuq                 5      1       3     0    2      0     11
Beland               6      2       1     0    2      0     11
Piotrus              1      0       1     8    0      0     10
JeremyA              0      1       9     0    0      0     10
Denni                10     0       0     0    0      0     10
Dbachmann            3      0       1     2    0      4     10
Stevertigo           5      0       3     0    0      1     9
RedWordSmith         5      2       0     0    2      0     9
Oberiko              5      0       4     0    0      0     9
Michael_Hardy        7      0       0     0    0      2     9
KF                   8      0       1     0    0      0     9
Joy                  6      0       0     0    0      3     9
Johntex              6      0       3     0    0      0     9
Fuzheado             5      0       2     2    0      0     9
Ezhiki               9      0       0     0    0      0     9
BillyH               9      0       0     0    0      0     9
Rossami              4      2       0     0    1      1     8
Kaldari              1      0       7     0    0      0     8
Josh_Grosse          8      0       0     0    0      0     8
Bkonrad              5      0       3     0    0      0     8
Y0u                  3      0       4     0    0      0     7
Trilobite            0      0       5     2    0      0     7
Snoyes               3      0       4     0    0      0     7
Sebastiankessel      2      1       4     0    0      0     7
Pcb21                6      0       0     0    0      1     7
Morven               7      0       0     0    0      0     7
Michael_Snow         5      0       1     0    0      1     7
LouI                 7      0       0     0    0      0     7
Jinian               7      0       0     0    0      0     7
Fredrik              5      0       1     0    0      1     7
Earl_Andrew          2      0       4     0    0      1     7
Dpbsmith             4      1       0     0    0      2     7
CJCurrie             7      0       0     0    0      0     7
Brion_VIBBER         1      0       6     0    0      0     7
Zippy                2      0       4     0    0      0     6
Smith03              4      0       0     2    0      0     6
Modemac              5      0       1     0    0      0     6
Jerzy                3      0       0     0    0      3     6
JCarriker            3      0       3     0    0      0     6
Isomorphic           6      0       0     0    0      0     6
Grue                 2      0       3     0    0      1     6
G-Man                4      0       0     0    0      2     6
Freestylefrappe      1      0       5     0    0      0     6
Elf                  6      0       0     0    0      0     6
Dmn                  5      0       0     1    0      0     6
Dante_Alighieri      0      1       0     2    3      0     6
Sj                   2      0       3     0    0      0     5
Siroxo               1      0       4     0    0      0     5
Matt_Crypto          1      0       4     0    0      0     5
Mark_Dingemanse      5      0       0     0    0      0     5
Mark                 0      2       1     1    1      0     5
Joolz                4      0       0     1    0      0     5
Dysprosia            3      0       2     0    0      0     5
Docu                 1      1       1     1    0      1     5
Woggly               2      0       2     0    0      0     4
Vaoverland           3      0       1     0    0      0     4
Scott_Burley         4      0       0     0    0      0     4
Rje                  4      0       0     0    0      0     4
Refdoc               0      2       2     0    0      0     4
Pollinator           1      0       3     0    0      0     4
Nohat                3      1       0     0    0      0     4
Ngb                  3      1       0     0    0      0     4
Maveric149           0      0       0     3    0      1     4
Lowellian            3      0       0     0    0      1     4
Longhair             2      0       2     0    0      0     4
Kwamikagami          0      0       4     0    0      0     4
Knowledge_Seeker     1      0       2     1    0      0     4
Kaihsu               1      0       3     0    0      0     4
Jdforrester          1      0       2     0    1      0     4
Frazzydee            4      0       0     0    0      0     4
Fernando_Rizo        0      0       4     0    0      0     4
Cedar-Guardian       4      0       0     0    0      0     4
Cacycle              4      0       0     0    0      0     4
CSTAR                2      0       2     0    0      0     4
COGDEN               2      0       0     0    0      2     4
Bcorr                3      0       1     0    0      0     4
Asbestos             0      0       4     0    0      0     4
%C3%86var_Arnfj%C3%B 0      0       4     0    0      0     4
WhisperToMe          1      0       2     0    0      0     3
Urhixidur            3      0       0     0    0      0     3
TUF-KAT              3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Slrubenstein         3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Sarge_Baldy          3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Reflex_Reaction      3      0       0     0    0      0     3
PedanticallySpeaking 0      0       0     0    0      3     3
Omegatron            2      1       0     0    0      0     3
OldakQuill           3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Minesweeper          2      0       0     0    0      1     3
Mike_Halterman       1      0       2     0    0      0     3
Markalexander100     0      0       2     1    0      0     3
Kingturtle           0      1       2     0    0      0     3
John_Kenney          0      0       0     3    0      0     3
JamesTeterenko       1      0       2     0    0      0     3
Ilyanep              2      0       1     0    0      0     3
Ihcoyc               3      0       0     0    0      0     3
IceKarma             3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Heron                0      0       3     0    0      0     3
Fennec               0      2       1     0    0      0     3
Enchanter            1      1       0     0    1      0     3
Eloquence            3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Ellsworth            2      0       1     0    0      0     3
David_Newton         0      0       3     0    0      0     3
DavidLevinson        2      0       1     0    0      0     3
Christopher_Mahan    3      0       0     0    0      0     3
Bryan_Derksen        1      0       0     0    0      2     3
Zocky                0      0       1     1    0      0     2
Tom-                 0      0       0     0    1      1     2
Tim_Starling         0      0       1     1    0      0     2
Seth_Ilys            0      1       1     0    0      0     2
Sesel                2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Sannse               2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Rhymeless            1      1       0     0    0      0     2
R3m0t                2      0       0     0    0      0     2
PMA                  0      1       1     0    0      0     2
Montrealais          2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Moncrief             0      0       2     0    0      0     2
Maury_Markowitz      2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Magnus_Manske        0      1       0     0    1      0     2
Mackensen            0      0       2     0    0      0     2
Lupin                1      0       0     0    1      0     2
Johnleemk            0      0       2     0    0      0     2
Hemanshu             2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Hedley               2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Gentgeen             0      0       2     0    0      0     2
DanKeshet            1      0       0     0    0      1     2
Dan100               2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Cimon_avaro          2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Briangotts           2      0       0     0    0      0     2
Anthere              0      0       1     0    1      0     2
Andrewa              2      0       0     0    0      0     2
XJamRastafire        1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Wwoods               1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Waltpohl             1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Triddle              0      1       0     0    0      0     1
Timc                 1      0       0     0    0      0     1
TheoClarke           0      0       1     0    0      0     1
The_Singing_Badger   1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Stewartadcock        1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Sam_Hocevar          0      0       1     0    0      0     1
RobLa                1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Ran                  1      0       0     0    0      0     1
RJFJR                1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Proteus              1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Poor_Yorick          1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Patrick              1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Moink                1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Marshman             0      0       1     0    0      0     1
Lommer               1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Llywrch              1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Lexor                1      0       0     0    0      0     1
JonMoore             1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Jmabel               1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Jake_Nelson          1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Ground_Zero          1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Cyrius               0      0       1     0    0      0     1
Cutler               0      0       1     0    0      0     1
ContiE               1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Chmod007             1      0       0     0    0      0     1
CatherineMunro       0      0       0     1    0      0     1
Blankfaze            0      0       1     0    0      0     1
Arcadian             1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Andrew_Yong          1      0       0     0    0      0     1
Alteripse            0      0       1     0    0      0     1
=== TOTALS ===       60313  1227    12854 4146 806    691   80037


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] Alex Polvi with classroom article improvement

body:
    http://alex.polvi.net/2005/10/30/wikipedia-in-the-classroom/

The resulting article still has notable stylistic problems, but at
least there's some *content* there. I have left a note on [[User
talk:Polvi]] pointing to [[Wikipedia:School and university projects]].

- d.


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Leon Planken

subject:
[Wikitech-l] patch: bug 3270,
	mark as patrolled links in irc-rc (dutch wikipedia)

body:
Hello all,

I submitted a patch for bug 3270 in bugzilla, also included below.  What
I changed is that now the rc bots will add the rcid variable to the http
query, but only if the global variable $wgUseRCPatrol is set, which I
believe is only the case in Dutch wikipedia.

This fix is very important for vandal fighting on nl.wp, because it will
enable VandalFighter to mark edits as patrolled, so they aren't checked
again manually at a later time (which happens now).

The patch has been tested.  The revision of RecentChange.php I patched
against is 1.37, which is the current revision as of this e-mail.

I hope this patch can be committed soon; it will make many Dutch users
very happy!

Regards,
Leon Planken (aka Oliphaunt)

Patch follows:

--- /home/people/oliphaunt/wiki/RecentChange.php	2005-10-28 14:01:30.000000000 +0200
+++ RecentChange.php	2005-10-28 14:30:11.000000000 +0200
@@ -125,6 +125,9 @@
 		# Insert new row
 		$dbw->insert( 'recentchanges', $this->mAttribs, $fname );

+		# Retrieve the id assigned by MySQL
+		$this->mAttribs['rc_id'] = $dbw->insertId();
+
 		# Update old rows, if necessary
 		if ( $this->mAttribs['rc_type'] == RC_EDIT ) {
 			$oldid = $this->mAttribs['rc_last_oldid'];
@@ -422,6 +425,8 @@
 	}

 	function getIRCLine() {
+		global $wgUseRCPatrol;
+
 		extract($this->mAttribs);
 		extract($this->mExtra);

@@ -434,6 +439,8 @@

 		if ( $rc_new ) {
 			$url = $titleObj->getFullURL();
+		} else if ( $wgUseRCPatrol ) {
+			$url = $titleObj->getFullURL("diff=0&oldid=$rc_last_oldid&rcid=$rc_id");
 		} else {
 			$url = $titleObj->getFullURL("diff=0&oldid=$rc_last_oldid");
 		}

--
I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did
the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much, of
course - the computer industry didn't even foresee that the
century was going to end.   --  Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)


list: foundation-l

from_name: Delirium

subject:
[Juriwiki-l] Re: [Foundation-l] Trademark violation of
	our	'MediaWiki' mark

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:

>I believe there *is* some ambiguity over the status of the term
>"MediaWiki", though - the place to look is
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_trademarks, although I can't
>access it right now - since not all the developers (who collectively
>own the copyright to the software, and thus logically its name and
>'brand') agree that the Wikimedia Foundation should be considered the
>owners of that mark. What that means in terms of "policing" the mark,
>I'm not entirely sure...
>
>
Indeed, it's generally considered best-practice in the open-source world
to *not* be tight-fisted with one's software names, since that tends to
be used as a tool to stifle forks.  When Emacs was forked to make
XEmacs, the Free Software Foundation did not sue the XEmacs developers
for using their trademark.  Occasionally software does have requirements
that any forks change the name (e.g. Knuth's TeX), but people complain
about those requirements a lot, and I wouldn't say they're
well-liked---especially when multiple people are the authors of the
original work (as with MediaWiki), rather than one company like in
MySQL's case.

-Mark


list: wikimedia-l


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Ting Chen

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Temporary access for China

body:
> Blocked again? After several hours all the Wikipedia sites are again
> inaccessible in Shanghai. These guys are really relentless,huh. And what
> is
> happening to the petition? And I was still wondering what kind of felony
> we
> commited that we deserve to be asking for mercy.

Yes, probably blocked again. We have also reports from Beijing and else
where stating that access without proxy is no more possible.

--
Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject:
[Wikitech-l] the discussion page: summary and better display of
	the treats, mbox format?

body:
On 31/10/05, Uwe Brauer <oub at mat.ucm.es> wrote:
> One of the inconvenience of the discussion page in wikipedia is the
> fact that does not have a mail-client type of interface/display. That
> is neither there is a email-summary type of display, nor a display
> which would allow to display the threads easily.
>
> Are there any plans to include such a feature.

This has been discussed before (I haven't any links to hand, but the
usual Googling with "site:mail.wikipedia.org" should turn things up
from these lists), but the central problem is that the current setup
has no internal representation of a single thread, let alone a single
comment, only of a whole page (roughly equivalent to a forum, or a
mailbox). The individual threads could potentially be interpretted out
by looking at headers, though these aren't used entirely consistently,
but it would require quite complex and unreliable pattern matching to
separate what humans can easily see as the individual comments.

Furthermore, this is in some ways an *advantage* - all the
old-fashioned wiki processes, like refactoring and so on, can take
place on the discussion page, unrestricted by structure imposed by the
software. One intriguing compromise was the "LiquidThreads" proposal,
at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LiquidThreads, but I'd consider it
more of an "idea" than a "planned feature"...

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject:
[Juriwiki-l] Re: [Foundation-l] Trademark violation of our
	'MediaWiki' mark

body:
On 31/10/05, Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> And anyway, has MediaWiki actually been trademarked? I know Wikimedia
> has, but someone earlier said they couldn't find a trademark for
> MediaWiki when they searched for it in where-ever you search for such
> things...

Just to clarify, terms don't have to "be trademarked" to become a
trademark; they simply have to be decalred (and defended) as such. You
*can* "register" a trademark, and that carries extra weight in various
legal ways, but (as I understand it) something basically becomes a
trademark as soon as you declare it to be one. [Hence superscript TM
for trademark, as well as R in a circle for *registered* trademark]

I believe there *is* some ambiguity over the status of the term
"MediaWiki", though - the place to look is
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_trademarks, although I can't
access it right now - since not all the developers (who collectively
own the copyright to the software, and thus logically its name and
'brand') agree that the Wikimedia Foundation should be considered the
owners of that mark. What that means in terms of "policing" the mark,
I'm not entirely sure...

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Our exponentially increasing costs

body:
Dan Grey wrote:
<snip>
> I'd love to hear from the devs about this , but my impression is that
> the system is very highly optimised. If you think you can do better,
> write the code!

The system can be changed to something else :) We could outsource
content display and just take care of editing.

Using en.wikipedia.org as an example:

1/ user access en.wikipedia.org , he is prompted for a mirror.
2/ user get redirected to en.mirror1.wikipedia.org
That mirror content is managed by some external people.
3/ user click edit on en.mirror1.wikipedia.org , he got redirected
to en.editing.wikipedia.org with a notice telling him that the mirror he
comes from might be lagging a bit.
4/ user submit the edit, see its work and next click get redirected to
en.mirror1.wikipedia.org

This way the foundation will just have to handle the editing part and
the rest of content will be outsourced.

Anyway, with kennisnet and yahoo giving us both servers and bandwith ...
Looks like we will have less load on the florida cluster (which is owned
and paid by the foundation).

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


from_name: James R. Johnson

subject: [Foundation-l] wikinews feature

body:
Hey,
    Is there a feature on the wikis that allows you to have auto-updated
stock information, much like the weather maps on wikinews?

James


subject: [Foundation-l] wikinews feature


subject: [Wikipedia-l] wikinews feature


from_name: Brian Haws

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Re: Madchester's wrongful blocking (user: shultz) (ip:
	68.102.193.78.)

body:
On at the least the narrow point of deleting things off of your own talk page, I see it done fairly often, admins and non-admins alike. It's not a blockable offense is it?

Michael Turley <michael.turley at gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/31/05, geni wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Michael Turley wrote:
>
> > Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly
> > claims the right to do is wrong.
>
> I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what
> they were doing was right.

I suppose you got me on a technicality based on me phrasing my point
less precisely than I intended.

I'm sure, however, you see how this particular example presents a
"two-faced" appearance to those who aren't administrators or
arbitrators, and how that appearance should be corrected as quickly as
possible, either by justifying the block on other grounds, reversing
the user block, or applying the same standards to our own community
servants.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Michael Turley

body:
On 10/31/05, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
> shultz at ksu.edu wrote:
> > He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's
> > like dictating what I can or can't have at home.
>
> No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is
> not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of
> something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you
> public(!) messages, and they should stay there.
>
> Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a
> say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free
> to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the
> project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the
> right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't
> really compare that with trespassing into your home.
>
> Timwi

This view is contradicted by at least one prominent member of the
Arbitration Committee, [[User:Neutrality]], whose talk page header
boldly claims "I archive when I feel like it. Depending on my whim,
your comments may or may not be archived. The odds of not being
archived are inversely proportional to the amount you annoy me. Please
do not annoy me."

In other words, his view is that deleting items on one's own page is
discretionary.  If you want to see what uncomplimentary comments
others have left, then you'd better get used to using the "page
history" function because they won't necessarily be archived.

Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly
claims the right to do is wrong.  If there was another reason for the
block, that's another issue, but if this person is being blocked for
deletion edits on his own talk page, then you should either unblock
him, or block Neutrality as well.

If you want people to stop thinking that they can delete what they
like off their own user talk pages, convince [[User:Neutrality]] to
change his talk page header first.

Even though I think deletion of negative comments on one's user talk
page is a deceptive thing to do (actually, I think it's worse than
simply deceptive), I respect the user's ability to edit one's own user
and talk pages as they please, including deleting complaints and other
unpleasant comments.  That's why my talk page encourages people to
look in the page history and not an archive.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused


from_name: Martin Richards

subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

body:
Why don't you set yourself up an account (a procedure you're familiar with)
and actually improve an article? Possibly you ow it to the people who's time
you wasted.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Willy on Wheels" <willyonwheels at hotmail.com>
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 4:06 AM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

> Yes, I am Willy on Wheels.
>
>
> Specifically, I am one of six people who have chronically trolled numerous
> wikis, notably the English version of Wikipedia. Recently, Wikipedia saved
> me from failing a research project horribly, and thus, I have decided to
> repent for my past colourful actions.
>
> This whole mess started as a prank in an IRC channel. One of our members
> loaded Wikipedia pages in Firefox tabs, and performed a mass-move
> vandalism. Normally, this wouldn't be funny, but we had just returned from
> the pub and were thorougly sloshed by then.
>
> After we saw the reactions that people made, the vandalism became a bad
> habit. We would vandalize, or attempt to vandalize pages just to get a
> frantic reaction from Wikipedians. Eventually, one of our group developed
> a tool written in PERL script to automate the creation of usernames and
> page vandalism. Eventually, we started hunting for proxies to continue the
> vandalism.
>
> I'm done for good, and will never again vandalize Wikipedia. After it
> proved so useful to me, I realized what our vandalism was taking away from
> others. If someone had vandalized the pages I needed, I would have likely
> failed out of university. I hope to eventually contribute to this shared
> knowledge for the benefit of more than just my warped humour.
>
> I don't expect most of you to believe me, but at least I can rest easy
> knowing that I've moved beyond this childish behavior.
>
> --Alec
>
>
> For the sake of non-repudiation:
> 126f060696ce9f41757052316647c3c7
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> De todo para la Mujer Latina http://latino.msn.com/mujer/
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Daniel Mayer

body:
--- Rowan Collins <rowan.collins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Its development is certainly very much *aided by* the Wikimedia
> Foundation: they provide servers for the mailing lists, bug tracker,
> and wiki[s] (meta.wikimedia.org and, I think, mediawiki.org), and they
> drive much of its development, possibly even with financial rewards.

Not possibly. The foundation employs full time the lead developer of MediaWiki
(and his primary duties are to do just that). The foundation does not, nor ever
has, employed anybody to work on Wikipedia.

> They may be the "senior user of the mark" in the sense that they were
> the first organisation to use the software, but they don't "use it in
> trade" because they are not directly responsible for its creation or
> distribution. It was developed (albeit primarily *for* them) by
> independent coders.

The foundation does not direct the creation of Wikipedia and is only one of
many distributors of its content. What the foundation does do is act as the ISP
for Wikipedia and her sister projects.

> I know the two can be distinct, but since at no point has copyright in
> the software belonged even partially to the WMF, I see no reason why
> the trademark would ever have transferred to their ownership either.

Copyright and trademark are two very different things that are treated *very*
differently in the law and are defended in *very* different ways. Mentioning
them in the same sentence just confuses matters.

> The name has only ever been attached to the software, on its own, as
> developed by a group of independent coders on behalf of the WMF and
> any other interested users (of which there are now many).

That is also true of Wikipedia (except for a tiny amount of extant text by
Larry Sanger and Jimmy Wales that was transferred to the foundation when it was
created).

> [In fact, I
> think it was named as a direct result of generalising the software for
> use *outside* Wikipedia]

No. I suggested the name as a play on the foundation?s name; Wikimedia ->
MediaWiki. Erik Moeller liked the idea and, lacking any opposition from the
developers, made it so.  I then bought the .org and .com domains, donated them
to the foundation and officially transferred all my rights to the name to the
foundation.

Now it may be a good idea to change the name of the software due to the fact
that so many people confuse the names ?Wikimedia? with ?MediaWiki?, but from my
perspective and understanding of the law the foundation clearly owns the
trademark to the term ?MediaWiki.? Registration is in progress.

-- mav

__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


body:
--- Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was crystal clear to me the very first time I read it that the
> company are just offering MediaWiki installs in their hosting plans,
> which afaik they're perfectly entitled to do.

Then you should read it again. It clearly says that they are launching Media
Wiki <full stop>. They can't launch something that already exists.

-- mav

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Emily Laviere

body:
I've been an admin for what, two weeks, and I've deleted 41 pages and done nothing else. Interesting table, that.

-Hermione1980

"Ilya N." <ilyanep at gmail.com> wrote:
Ilyanep 2 0 1 0 0 0 3

I need to do something

On 10/31/05, Kelly Martin wrote:
>
> On 10/31/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
> > It looks like I need to do a lot more admin things.
>
> I noticed that I was less active than Jimbo. I'm not sure whether
> that indicates anything.
>
> Kelly
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
~Ilya N.
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.


body:
On 10/31/05, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Michael Turley <michael.turley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly
> > claims the right to do is wrong.
>
> I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what
> they were doing was right.

I suppose you got me on a technicality based on me phrasing my point
less precisely than I intended.

I'm sure, however, you see how this particular example presents a
"two-faced" appearance to those who aren't administrators or
arbitrators, and how that appearance should be corrected as quickly as
possible, either by justifying the block on other grounds, reversing
the user block, or applying the same standards to our own community
servants.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused


from_name: Uwe Brauer

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: the discussion page: summary and better display of
	the treats, mbox format?

body:
>>>>> "Rowan" == Rowan Collins
>>>>> <rowan.collins at gmail.com> writes:

   Rowan> This has been discussed before (I haven't any links to hand,
   Rowan> but the usual Googling with "site:mail.wikipedia.org" should
I did not find any of these, most likely my googling ability is poor.

   Rowan> turn things up from these lists), but the central problem is
   Rowan> that the current setup has no internal representation of a
   Rowan> single thread, let alone a single comment, only of a whole
   Rowan> page (roughly equivalent to a forum, or a mailbox). The
   Rowan> individual threads could potentially be interpretted out by
   Rowan> looking at headers, though these aren't used entirely
   Rowan> consistently, but it would require quite complex and
   Rowan> unreliable pattern matching to separate what humans can
   Rowan> easily see as the individual comments.
Right, that is what I thought.

   Rowan> Furthermore, this is in some ways an *advantage* - all the
   Rowan> old-fashioned wiki processes, like refactoring and so on,
   Rowan> can take place on the discussion page, unrestricted by
   Rowan> structure imposed by the software. One intriguing compromise
   Rowan> was the "LiquidThreads" proposal, at
   Rowan> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LiquidThreads, but I'd
   Rowan> consider it more of an "idea" than a "planned feature"...
The idea sounds appealing and I would support it, however nothing has
been implemented so far, as I understand

Uwe


from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

body:
Sounds fine to me, your not the first reformed vandal I've come across
who ended up won over by the content. Just 1 question tho, was that
you who vandalised the nazipedia, or was that another wikipedian
pretending to be you? Just curious,

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 10/30/05, Willy on Wheels <willyonwheels at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I am Willy on Wheels.
>
>
> Specifically, I am one of six people who have chronically trolled numerous
> wikis, notably the English version of Wikipedia. Recently, Wikipedia saved
> me from failing a research project horribly, and thus, I have decided to
> repent for my past colourful actions.
>
> This whole mess started as a prank in an IRC channel. One of our members
> loaded Wikipedia pages in Firefox tabs, and performed a mass-move vandalism.
> Normally, this wouldn't be funny, but we had just returned from the pub and
> were thorougly sloshed by then.
>
> After we saw the reactions that people made, the vandalism became a bad
> habit. We would vandalize, or attempt to vandalize pages just to get a
> frantic reaction from Wikipedians. Eventually, one of our group developed a
> tool written in PERL script to automate the creation of usernames and page
> vandalism. Eventually, we started hunting for proxies to continue the
> vandalism.
>
> I'm done for good, and will never again vandalize Wikipedia. After it proved
> so useful to me, I realized what our vandalism was taking away from others.
> If someone had vandalized the pages I needed, I would have likely failed out
> of university. I hope to eventually contribute to this shared knowledge for
> the benefit of more than just my warped humour.
>
> I don't expect most of you to believe me, but at least I can rest easy
> knowing that I've moved beyond this childish behavior.
>
> --Alec
>
>
> For the sake of non-repudiation:
> 126f060696ce9f41757052316647c3c7
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> De todo para la Mujer Latina http://latino.msn.com/mujer/
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Previews

references:
<5.1.0.14.2.20051026111126.033fbd88@oak.cats.ohiou.edu>	<dk0prl$803$1@sea.gmane.org>	<dk0uu8$ihu$1@sea.gmane.org>	<dk31ev$o7o$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<dk3r6i$nkv$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
Tim Starling wrote:
>
> No, it'll be posted under the admin's username.

If you can make it show a preview then you can also make it save under
the IP address.


from_name: Kelly Martin

body:
On 10/31/05, SPUI <drspui at gmail.com> wrote:
> uninvited at nerstrand.net wrote:
> > There are 661 admins on en.wikipedia.  Of these, 461 were active during
> > the month of October, 2005.  They deleted 60313 pages, blocked 12854
> > vandals, trolls, and socks, and protected 1227 pages.  691 pages were
> > undeleted.
>
> How did you calculate how many of the blocked users were "vandals,
> trolls, and socks"?

Yeah, I noticed that too.

Kelly


body:
--- Anthony DiPierro <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> C'mon, you're talking about the headline.

NOT just the headline, but the body text as well. The whole thing is so badly
written that it confuses their offering (hosting that involves MediaWiki
installs) with the software itself. That is the type of thing that dillutes a
trademark and needs to be defended against if the foundation wishes to keep
control of that mark.

> They could add "MediaWiki is software created by the
> Wikimedia Foundation", except that the Wikimedia Foundation is only *one* of
> the authors of the software (they certainly own the copyright on anything
> done by the lead developer as part of his duties as an employee).

This has never been made clear. IIRC, the informal guiding principle on Brion's
paid work on MediaWiki is that he at least controls the copyright. This is
certainly something that needs to be made clear (control and ownership may also
be two different things).

> Mav also said: "I suggested the name as a play on the foundation's name;
> Wikimedia ->
> MediaWiki." Now there's something I never knew. What was the software called
> before it was called MediaWiki?

<horrid name> "Wikipedia Software Phase II" </horrid name> Once upon a time
somebody suggested the name "PediaWiki", to which the developers and everybody
in earshot ran away screaming from.

> Rowan Collins said: "I know the two can be distinct, but since at no point
> has copyright in
> the software belonged even partially to the WMF" Actually, that's not true.
> WMF currently owns the copyright on anything created by its employees as
> part of their duties.

By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make that
point clear.

-- mav

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Privacy policy and editing anonymously notice.

body:
David Gerard wrote:
> Timwi wrote:
>
>
>>Even shorter:
>>	Your [[IP address]] will be logged when you submit. If you are
>>	not [[Special:Userlogin|logged in]], it will be shown publicly.
>>	See [[Wikipedia:Privacy policy|privacy policy]].
>
> "SUBMIT! SUBMIT TO WIKIPEDIA!" heh :-)

I had it say "edit" in my first version, but I changed it to "submit"
because people unfamiliar with the basics of HTTP might take it to mean
that your IP will be recorded as soon as you make any change to the text
in the text box. Maybe "click 'Save'" would be best.

> The use of "logged" in two different ways is (apparently) very bad. How about:

I agree. "Record" is a better choice.

Updated version thus:

	Your [[IP address]] will be recorded when you click 'Save'. If
	you are not [[Special:Userlogin|logged in]], it will be shown
	publicly. See [[Wikipedia:Privacy policy|privacy policy]].

Aside: unfortunately, people unfamiliar with the Wiki concept get
intimidated or frightened even when they just bring up the edit screen.
It can easily feel like you're trespassing and you shouldn't be there,
even before you actually submit anything. A message such as the above
doesn't help this; it increases the fear of repercussions for doing
something wrong.

Timwi


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Clearing my Conscience

body:
Willy on Wheels wrote:
> Yes, I am Willy on Wheels.

I'm glad to see you're changing your wheels! Er... your ways!

The first time I saw your username I thought it was a nice one; I wheely
wheely liked it. Shame you used it to vandalise, giving it a bad reputation.

> After it proved so useful to me, I realized what our vandalism was
> taking away from others. If someone had vandalized the pages I
> needed, I would have likely failed out of university.

You do realise though that you haven't done any permanent damage, right?
Don't beat yourself up over it. Just don't do it again, and everything
will be fine.

Timwi


body:
shultz at ksu.edu wrote:
> He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's
> like dictating what I can or can't have at home.

No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is
not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of
something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you
public(!) messages, and they should stay there.

Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a
say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free
to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the
project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the
right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't
really compare that with trespassing into your home.

Timwi


body:
On 10/31/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <macgyvermagic at gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks like I need to do a lot more admin things.

I noticed that I was less active than Jimbo.  I'm not sure whether
that indicates anything.

Kelly


from_name: Ilya N.

body:
Ilyanep 2 0 1 0 0 0 3

I need to do something

On 10/31/05, Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/31/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm <macgyvermagic at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It looks like I need to do a lot more admin things.
>
> I noticed that I was less active than Jimbo. I'm not sure whether
> that indicates anything.
>
> Kelly
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
~Ilya N.


from_name: SPUI

body:
uninvited at nerstrand.net wrote:
> There are 661 admins on en.wikipedia.  Of these, 461 were active during
> the month of October, 2005.  They deleted 60313 pages, blocked 12854
> vandals, trolls, and socks, and protected 1227 pages.  691 pages were
> undeleted.

How did you calculate how many of the blocked users were "vandals,
trolls, and socks"?


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Clearing my Conscience

body:
Fred Bauder wrote:
> Would you want to use a new name or edit as Willy on Wheels?

Hard to say; I wouldn't have got myself such a reputation in the first
place. I call myself Timwi pretty much everywhere, so I have a strong
incentive not to give the name a bad reputation anywhere. (Which,
unfortunately, doesn't seem to stop me from doing it anyway, but at
least I'm not a vandal. :-) )

Timwi


from_name: Andrew Venier

body:
uninvited at nerstrand.net wrote:

>There are 661 admins on en.wikipedia.  Of these, 461 were active during
>the month of October, 2005.  They deleted 60313 pages, blocked 12854
>vandals, trolls, and socks, and protected 1227 pages.  691 pages were
>undeleted.
>
>
There were lots of image deletions due to an effort to clean up
{{fairuse}} and {{permission}}.  Are the associated image pages part of
the page deletion statistics?


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] Previews

body:
Jeff Heikkinen wrote:

> uninvited at nerstrand.net wrote:
>
>> In my experience, this bug manifests itself only when one has multiple
>> tabs or windows open.
>>
>> Then, it is necessary to press whatever button initiates a post action
>> on two or more windows or tabs, without waiting for the prior post to
>> complete.  This is only possible when the site is responding slowly.  I
>> don't believe I've had the initial problem occur with any pages other
>> than the delete confirmation page, though I could be mistaken.
>
> I am having this problem right now on [[Canasta]], and I do not have
> multiple tabs open (okay, I do, but only one of them is on Wikipedia;
> the rest are on other sites).

It is portentous that it should happen on that article.  It clearly must
be related to the difficulty of holding the large number of cards that
one can acquire in the course of that game. :-)

Ec


subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

body:
Well Willy, it is good to see that you have some balls.

What? I mean not everyone would have the balls to apologise.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Willy on Wheels" <willyonwheels at hotmail.com>
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 4:06 AM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

> Yes, I am Willy on Wheels.
>
>
> Specifically, I am one of six people who have chronically trolled numerous
> wikis, notably the English version of Wikipedia. Recently, Wikipedia saved
> me from failing a research project horribly, and thus, I have decided to
> repent for my past colourful actions.
>
> This whole mess started as a prank in an IRC channel. One of our members
> loaded Wikipedia pages in Firefox tabs, and performed a mass-move
> vandalism. Normally, this wouldn't be funny, but we had just returned from
> the pub and were thorougly sloshed by then.
>
> After we saw the reactions that people made, the vandalism became a bad
> habit. We would vandalize, or attempt to vandalize pages just to get a
> frantic reaction from Wikipedians. Eventually, one of our group developed
> a tool written in PERL script to automate the creation of usernames and
> page vandalism. Eventually, we started hunting for proxies to continue the
> vandalism.
>
> I'm done for good, and will never again vandalize Wikipedia. After it
> proved so useful to me, I realized what our vandalism was taking away from
> others. If someone had vandalized the pages I needed, I would have likely
> failed out of university. I hope to eventually contribute to this shared
> knowledge for the benefit of more than just my warped humour.
>
> I don't expect most of you to believe me, but at least I can rest easy
> knowing that I've moved beyond this childish behavior.
>
> --Alec
>
>
> For the sake of non-repudiation:
> 126f060696ce9f41757052316647c3c7
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> De todo para la Mujer Latina http://latino.msn.com/mujer/
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Christopher E. Granade

subject:
[Wikitech-l] Re: LiquidThreads [WAS: Re: the discussion page:
 summary and better display of the treats, mbox format?]

references:
<877jbu2avo.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
	<87d5llaiex.fsf@mat.ucm.es>	<dk5svb$5jd$2@sea.gmane.org>
	<200511010004.37975@bloodgate.com>
	<e692861c0510311512t41c1b6ael91380f7a9202a19a@mail.gmail.com>

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Tels <nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com> wrote:
>> OTOH, the currenty wikipages are not really suited to discussions at all -
>> I'd rather not have someone edit my "posts" - whether it be for fixing
>> the speling or whatever.
>>
>> When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail - but I think
>> a new disccusion support would be very good to have, even if it is a lot
>> of work. The longer the old sytle pages are the only possibility, hte
>> longer we will get more and more of them. :)
>
> I don't know about that, I often get into discussions where we
> alternate between wikimode and thread mode.   I think the fear of
> editing comments comes from a lack of trust in the system and the
> other editors.  Often in a discussion I'll post a list or a fragment
> of text, and multiple people with work on it.  I don't see what the
> harm is in leaving the possibility of editing other peoples words, if
> someone does it in an objectionable way they will be caught and hung
> like the evil creatures they are. ;)
>
> Really, the only two problems I've had is tracking changes across
> multiple parts of a page, but viewing diffs from my last edit fixes
> that, and getting notified which watchlists mostly fix.
>
> Too bad there isn't a way to watchlist sections. :)
I think what you allude to in wikimode discussion forums could be solved
by establishing a Scratch: namespace that mirrors the global namespace
(e.g.: Scratch:Template:NPOV) that is not considered to be "finished."
During development of new formats, or extensive editing, provisional
changes could be placed under Scratch, and such suggestions could be
referenced from LiquidThreads.

- --Chris
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDZs4y0dXuuZr00J4RAjdTAKDn7j4M8/04ZnHHuOAMVqjtmu6GsACfR5F7
j4b2zv16i4JxanrGpDPbeqk=
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from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
>>understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make
>>that point clear.
>
> According to the US Code, a work made by an employee within the scope of his
> employment is *always* a work made for hire. The copyright may have been
> transfered (and that transfer can be terminated after 35 years), but AFAIK
> you can't change the authorship of a work.
>
> Of course, to further confuse things, WikiMedia may very well be a work of
> joint authorship, and in that case Brion is probably one of the joint
> authors along with the WMF.

1) I am not the sole author of MediaWiki, I'm just one of several people
who's worked on it.

2) My work on MediaWiki antedates my employment with Wikimedia, so
Wikimedia can make no claim on my prior contributions.

3) The verbal agreement Jimmy and I made was that I would continue to
retain copyright to software contributions I make during my employment.

4) As far as I know, the Foundation has no copyright interest in
MediaWiki. Some contributors have renounced their copyright interest, so
fragments here and there may be public domain. ;)

5) The Foundation may own the trademark on the name MediaWiki, which
postdates the creation of the software itself.

6) A trademark registration for the mark was filed last year on behalf
of the foundation, though it hasn't totally gone through yet. (I'm not
the person to ask for details on that.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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body:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
>>understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make
>>that point clear.
>
> According to the US Code, a work made by an employee within the scope of his
> employment is *always* a work made for hire. The copyright may have been
> transfered (and that transfer can be terminated after 35 years), but AFAIK
> you can't change the authorship of a work.
>
> Of course, to further confuse things, WikiMedia may very well be a work of
> joint authorship, and in that case Brion is probably one of the joint
> authors along with the WMF.

1) I am not the sole author of MediaWiki, I'm just one of several people
who's worked on it.

2) My work on MediaWiki antedates my employment with Wikimedia, so
Wikimedia can make no claim on my prior contributions.

3) The verbal agreement Jimmy and I made was that I would continue to
retain copyright to software contributions I make during my employment.

4) As far as I know, the Foundation has no copyright interest in
MediaWiki. Some contributors have renounced their copyright interest, so
fragments here and there may be public domain. ;)

5) The Foundation may own the trademark on the name MediaWiki, which
postdates the creation of the software itself.

6) A trademark registration for the mark was filed last year on behalf
of the foundation, though it hasn't totally gone through yet. (I'm not
the person to ask for details on that.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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body:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
>>understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make
>>that point clear.
>
> According to the US Code, a work made by an employee within the scope of his
> employment is *always* a work made for hire. The copyright may have been
> transfered (and that transfer can be terminated after 35 years), but AFAIK
> you can't change the authorship of a work.
>
> Of course, to further confuse things, WikiMedia may very well be a work of
> joint authorship, and in that case Brion is probably one of the joint
> authors along with the WMF.

1) I am not the sole author of MediaWiki, I'm just one of several people
who's worked on it.

2) My work on MediaWiki antedates my employment with Wikimedia, so
Wikimedia can make no claim on my prior contributions.

3) The verbal agreement Jimmy and I made was that I would continue to
retain copyright to software contributions I make during my employment.

4) As far as I know, the Foundation has no copyright interest in
MediaWiki. Some contributors have renounced their copyright interest, so
fragments here and there may be public domain. ;)

5) The Foundation may own the trademark on the name MediaWiki, which
postdates the creation of the software itself.

6) A trademark registration for the mark was filed last year on behalf
of the foundation, though it hasn't totally gone through yet. (I'm not
the person to ask for details on that.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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body:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
> On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
>>understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make
>>that point clear.
>
> According to the US Code, a work made by an employee within the scope of his
> employment is *always* a work made for hire. The copyright may have been
> transfered (and that transfer can be terminated after 35 years), but AFAIK
> you can't change the authorship of a work.
>
> Of course, to further confuse things, WikiMedia may very well be a work of
> joint authorship, and in that case Brion is probably one of the joint
> authors along with the WMF.

1) I am not the sole author of MediaWiki, I'm just one of several people
who's worked on it.

2) My work on MediaWiki antedates my employment with Wikimedia, so
Wikimedia can make no claim on my prior contributions.

3) The verbal agreement Jimmy and I made was that I would continue to
retain copyright to software contributions I make during my employment.

4) As far as I know, the Foundation has no copyright interest in
MediaWiki. Some contributors have renounced their copyright interest, so
fragments here and there may be public domain. ;)

5) The Foundation may own the trademark on the name MediaWiki, which
postdates the creation of the software itself.

6) A trademark registration for the mark was filed last year on behalf
of the foundation, though it hasn't totally gone through yet. (I'm not
the person to ask for details on that.)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Andrew Lih

references:
<dk3hgq$3fn$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<849f98ed0510310021t6f2c9550g@mail.gmail.com>
	<dk4pi9$ma6$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
On 10/31/05, Tim Starling <t.starling at physics.unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
> If anyone asks, please make it clear that the IP change was done for
> technical reasons. We had already deployed LVS on the Amsterdam cluster,
> before the ban started. We would have deployed it weeks ago on the Florida
> cluster but for lack of a suitable machine. It was just a matter of time
> before we did it in Seoul, it's a much better system than DNS round-robin.
>
> While I've been careful in the past not to jeopardise petition attempts, I
> don't think we should go so far as to avoid changing our IPs, to stay within
> the very small set that the PRC blocked.

Yes, this is ay technically sound move, and should not be a factor in
getting the block lifted.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)


from_name: Amgine

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Privacy policy and editing anonymously notice.

body:
Your [[IP address]] will be shown publicly if you edit when not
[[Special:Userlogin|logged in]]. See [[Wikipedia:Privacy policy|privacy policy]].

<grin> Cool challenge, David Gerard

Amgine

----

Strunk: Rule 13: Omit unnecessary words.


from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject:
[Wikitech-l] LiquidThreads [WAS: Re: the discussion page: summary
	and better display of the treats, mbox format?]

references:
<877jbu2avo.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87d5llaiex.fsf@mat.ucm.es>
	<dk5svb$5jd$2@sea.gmane.org> <200511010004.37975@bloodgate.com>

body:
On 10/31/05, Tels <nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com> wrote:
> OTOH, the currenty wikipages are not really suited to discussions at all -
> I'd rather not have someone edit my "posts" - whether it be for fixing
> the speling or whatever.
>
> When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail - but I think
> a new disccusion support would be very good to have, even if it is a lot
> of work. The longer the old sytle pages are the only possibility, hte
> longer we will get more and more of them. :)

I don't know about that, I often get into discussions where we
alternate between wikimode and thread mode.   I think the fear of
editing comments comes from a lack of trust in the system and the
other editors.  Often in a discussion I'll post a list or a fragment
of text, and multiple people with work on it.  I don't see what the
harm is in leaving the possibility of editing other peoples words, if
someone does it in an objectionable way they will be caught and hung
like the evil creatures they are. ;)

Really, the only two problems I've had is tracking changes across
multiple parts of a page, but viewing diffs from my last edit fixes
that, and getting notified which watchlists mostly fix.

Too bad there isn't a way to watchlist sections. :)


body:
That is a very sad situation, and unfortunately not uncommon. While we have
a policy of "anyone can edit" I don't think things will change much, unless
we have a "stable version" or similar idea.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Puddl Duk" <puddlduk at gmail.com>
To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Slipping quality as Wikipedia gets bigger
(formerlyCan you trust Wikipedia?)

> >
>> Please name a few of these articles in serious decay.  I am very
>> interested in seeing several examples of this.  So far, all I've seen
>> is vague affirmations that this indeed is happening.  I don't doubt
>> that it has happened, but I'd like to have a look to better understand
>> the trouble.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Turley
>> User:Unfocused
>
> [[Gas turbine]]. The article was mostly written in the first
> sixty-five edits
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gas_turbine&oldid=6665037)
> . The following ~eighty edits have contained a handful of
> improvements, but for the most part they are spam, vandalism and
> reverts. The article hasn't deteriorated that much because a few
> editors periodically clean up the spam and revert vandalism.
>
> Don't get me wrong - I don't consider my writing in this article very
> good, and I'm often amazed that an article I worked on can be made
> much, much worse!  But I'm tired of spending time removing spam and
> repairing the whole article and associated links from anon edits that
> originate from a turbine manufacturer's ip address (for example).
>
> I won't work to improve this article anymore, its a waste of effort. I
> just move on to things  that don't require constant babysitting.
> Haven't had the heart to take it off my watchlist though.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Anthony DiPierro

body:
On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It was crystal clear to me the very first time I read it that the
> > company are just offering MediaWiki installs in their hosting plans,
> > which afaik they're perfectly entitled to do.
>
> Then you should read it again. It clearly says that they are launching
> Media
> Wiki <full stop>. They can't launch something that already exists.
>
> -- mav

C'mon, you're talking about the headline. If you read the actual text it
says that the software was "Created in 1995". Sure, they could add
"MediaWiki is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation", except
apparently it isn't. They could add "MediaWiki is software created by the
Wikimedia Foundation", except that the Wikimedia Foundation is only *one* of
the authors of the software (they certainly own the copyright on anything
done by the lead developer as part of his duties as an employee). They could
say that "The Wikimedia Foundation pays the main developer of MediaWiki", I
suppose, but this is kind of excessive. I mean, they should be more clear
about exactly what MediaWiki is, and I guess they could tweak the headline,
but it's not really the huge deal people are making it out to be.

Mav also said: "I suggested the name as a play on the foundation's name;
Wikimedia ->
MediaWiki." Now there's something I never knew. What was the software called
before it was called MediaWiki?

Rowan Collins said: "I know the two can be distinct, but since at no point
has copyright in
the software belonged even partially to the WMF" Actually, that's not true.
WMF currently owns the copyright on anything created by its employees as
part of their duties.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Webcomics/Deletion again

body:
JAY JG wrote:

> Sean, I'm very rarely on AfD, but from what I've seen (and what others
> have said here) the AfD appears to make reasonable decisions 95-98%
> percent of the time - it's the last 2-5% of controversial decisions
> that are causing all the angst here, combined with concern over a
> "poisonous atmosphere" on the page.
>
> The page deals with over 100 articles a day, so it's easy enough to
> find examples of bad decisions.  However, no system is perfect, and
> the error-rate at AfD does not appear to be particularly unreasonable
> for a human intensive process working under fairly loose guidelines.
> It certainly has not been demonstrated that the any other system would
> have a lower error rate.  Furthermore, it should be kept in mind that
> "hard cases make bad law".  Finally, as has been pointed out by Tony,
> AfD itself has a limited capacity, so the overall "harm" it can do
> Wikipedia, at least in terms of articles deleted in error (or, for
> that matter, kept in error), is miniscule.

Your ratio of controversial articles seems about right.  The problem is
in the tenacity with which controversial deletions are protected.  No
damage would be done by allowing the controversial ones more time, or
allowing them to be easily undeleted for further discussion for as long
as it takes.

Ec


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

subject: [WikiEN-l] Clearing my Conscience

body:
Yes, I am indeed still sceptical, but go forth and improve articles and
I'd be glad to be proven wrong.

--Mgm


subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia & Original Research

body:
Making a point is already disallowed. But it'd be hard to figure out
exactly which images fall under that. I'd say IFD is the best place
for such images.

--Mgm

On 10/31/05, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31/10/05, rex <rex at x234.com> wrote:
> > I think that photos, which are intended to make a specific point,
> > should not be uploaded to Wikipedia unless they have been
> > previously published by a disinterested, reputable 3rd party.
>
> You've proposed this... hmm, three times or so that I've seen so far
> this morning. Is there a particular image or article you're taking
> issue with?
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Dan Grey

body:
On 31/10/05, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org> wrote:
> Dan Grey wrote:
> <snip>
> > I'd love to hear from the devs about this , but my impression is that
> > the system is very highly optimised. If you think you can do better,
> > write the code!
>
> The system can be changed to something else :) We could outsource
> content display and just take care of editing.
>
> Using en.wikipedia.org as an example:
>
> 1/ user access en.wikipedia.org , he is prompted for a mirror.
> 2/ user get redirected to en.mirror1.wikipedia.org
> That mirror content is managed by some external people.
> 3/ user click edit on en.mirror1.wikipedia.org , he got redirected
> to en.editing.wikipedia.org with a notice telling him that the mirror he
> comes from might be lagging a bit.
> 4/ user submit the edit, see its work and next click get redirected to
> en.mirror1.wikipedia.org
>
> This way the foundation will just have to handle the editing part and
> the rest of content will be outsourced.

Isn't most of the server load from editing though? I thought display
was handled mostly by squids - and I think I've heard people say that
a static version of the site could be served by just a single squid
instance or something...

Dan


from_name: Fredrik Johansson

body:
On 10/31/05, Guettarda <guettarda at gmail.com> wrote:
> In almost all cases, an image is neutral until you add a caption to it. Then
> it may be POV.
>
> Ian

On the contrary, an image is likely to be POV until you add a caption
that explains in which way it isn't neutral.

----
Fredrik Johansson


subject: [WikiEN-l] Images on Wikipedia

body:
On 10/31/05, Tom Cadden <thomcadden at yahoo.ie> wrote:
> And yes, it's very unilateral: as far as I
> can tell he's acting nearly independently, and reverts
> edits back without any (or very little) discussion or
> consensus.

Compliance with copyright policy is not subject to consensus.

Kelly


from_name: Matt Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] Webcomics/Deletion again

body:
Personally, I think "notability" is mostly a bunch of rot. What it really is
about is whether there is enough verifiable information about something to
write a good article on it. What bugs me about the creation of zillions of
articles on obscure subjects is when there is no effort to write a quality
article.

What I consider boring minutae are someone else's lifeblood. And vice versa.
I write articles about insignificant stuff all the time, as do, let's face
it, most of us. They're just the insignificant stuff I personally know
about.

-Matt


from_name: charles matthews

subject: [WikiEN-l] Karl Popper and Wikipedia

body:
Ed Poor wrote

>I maintain that the Wikipedia community is Popper's sort of "open
society"

A dogmatic codger at the best of times, towards the end of his life Karl P.
came up with the revelation that the most important thing in politics was to
be able to sack your government.

Falsify that!  With respect to WP, I mean.

Charles


from_name: Rowan Collins

body:
On 31/10/05, Kelly Martin <kelly.lynn.martin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would also add that copyright ownership of a piece of software need
> not have anything to do with ownership of the trademark.  MediaWiki is
> published by and advertised by the Wikimedia Foundation; they're the
> senior user of the mark in trade and thereby entitled to own the mark.

This is incorrect: MediaWiki code is hosted on Sourceforge (under the
outdated project name "Wikipedia", which of course *is* a Wikimedia
trademark, but never mind: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wikipedia);
it is "published" by its developers, using that service, and arguably
"advertised" by whoever uses it.

Its development is certainly very much *aided by* the Wikimedia
Foundation: they provide servers for the mailing lists, bug tracker,
and wiki[s] (meta.wikimedia.org and, I think, mediawiki.org), and they
drive much of its development, possibly even with financial rewards.
They may be the "senior user of the mark" in the sense that they were
the first organisation to use the software, but they don't "use it in
trade" because they are not directly responsible for its creation or
distribution. It was developed (albeit primarily *for* them) by
independent coders.

I know the two can be distinct, but since at no point has copyright in
the software belonged even partially to the WMF, I see no reason why
the trademark would ever have transferred to their ownership either.
The name has only ever been attached to the software, on its own, as
developed by a group of independent coders on behalf of the WMF and
any other interested users (of which there are now many). [In fact, I
think it was named as a direct result of generalising the software for
use *outside* Wikipedia]

Sorry to labour the point, but I wanted to make clear my reasoning.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


body:
On 10/31/05, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- Anthony DiPierro <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
> > C'mon, you're talking about the headline.
>
> NOT just the headline, but the body text as well. The whole thing is so
> badly
> written that it confuses their offering (hosting that involves MediaWiki
> installs) with the software itself. That is the type of thing that
> dillutes a
> trademark and needs to be defended against if the foundation wishes to
> keep
> control of that mark.

I'm not very familiar at all with the laws against trademark infringement
and dilution (I do know that they're different things, though). Anyway,
yeah, if the foundation wishes to establish and/or maintain control of the
mark they need to actively defend them in some way. Hopefully in this case
that just means asking them to fix things, because if it involves actually
getting legal on their ass the cost probably isn't worth the benefit.

Is there an officer who either is tasked with this type of thing or can
appoint someone to be? A request really needs to come from someone acting as
an agent of the foundation, and having it come from 50 different wannabies
is going to be counter-productive.

> They could add "MediaWiki is software created by the
> > Wikimedia Foundation", except that the Wikimedia Foundation is only
> *one* of
> > the authors of the software (they certainly own the copyright on
> anything
> > done by the lead developer as part of his duties as an employee).
>
> This has never been made clear. IIRC, the informal guiding principle on
> Brion's
> paid work on MediaWiki is that he at least controls the copyright. This is
> certainly something that needs to be made clear (control and ownership may
> also
> be two different things).

> Mav also said: "I suggested the name as a play on the foundation's name;
> > Wikimedia ->
> > MediaWiki." Now there's something I never knew. What was the software
> called
> > before it was called MediaWiki?
>
> <horrid name> "Wikipedia Software Phase II" </horrid name> Once upon a
> time
> somebody suggested the name "PediaWiki", to which the developers and
> everybody
> in earshot ran away screaming from.
>
> > Rowan Collins said: "I know the two can be distinct, but since at no
> point
> > has copyright in
> > the software belonged even partially to the WMF" Actually, that's not
> true.
> > WMF currently owns the copyright on anything created by its employees as
> > part of their duties.
>
> By default that is standard practice. But I don't know if that was the
> understanding between Brion and Jimmy. You'll need to ask them to make
> that
> point clear.
>
> -- mav

According to the US Code, a work made by an employee within the scope of his
employment is *always* a work made for hire. The copyright may have been
transfered (and that transfer can be terminated after 35 years), but AFAIK
you can't change the authorship of a work.

Of course, to further confuse things, WikiMedia may very well be a work of
joint authorship, and in that case Brion is probably one of the joint
authors along with the WMF.


from_name: geni

body:
On 10/31/05, Michael Turley <michael.turley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly
> claims the right to do is wrong.

I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what
they were doing was right.

--
geni


from_name: Sam Korn

body:
On 10/31/05, Timwi <timwi at gmx.net> wrote:
> No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is
> not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of
> something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you
> public(!) messages, and they should stay there.
>
> Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a
> say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free
> to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the
> project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the
> right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't
> really compare that with trespassing into your home.
>
> Timwi

I too have to disagree with you here, Timwi.  Your user talk page is
your personal inbox.  It is a place where other users can leave you
public messages.  All you are required to do is to see them.  What you
then do with them is entirely up to you.  As long as you don't delete
them fully and permanently (i.e. be an admin and delete the individual
comment) then that's OK.  Thus it is not against policy to blank talk
pages, even if it isn't positively disliked.  A user has basically got
the right to remove things if they so want, as many times as they
want, but they should nevertheless be mindful of how this appears to
everyone else, which is the crux as usual.

Sam


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

body:
Dan Grey wrote:
> Isn't most of the server load from editing though? I thought display
> was handled mostly by squids - and I think I've heard people say that
> a static version of the site could be served by just a single squid
> instance or something...

I think most of the traffic comes from anonymous users browsing the
site. That traffic is most of the time served by squid unless the page
is not in the squids cache.

Any logged in people directly hit the apaches (that's why some people
complain that their wiki is slow while the others are fast, just cause
they are not logged on other wikis :p).

Tim Starling is working on a tool that dump static html pages (I have
seen the result with my local installation and it looks complete). So
eventually we could serve anonymous users an 'outdated' version of
pages, and refresh that once per day. The apaches will then only used
for logged users.

There is also ESI caching promised in squid 3 (although squid 3 might
never come out). It is able to cache only a part of a page (aka the
text) and mix it with dynamic content (customized toolbars, skin stuff).
That could boost our performances too but that's long term.

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


from_name: Jiaming Xu

body:
Blocked again? After several hours all the Wikipedia sites are again
inaccessible in Shanghai. These guys are really relentless,huh. And what is
happening to the petition? And I was still wondering what kind of felony we
commited that we deserve to be asking for mercy.

On 10/31/05, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp at gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Hello Tim,
>
> I posted you mail and a translation of it onto the chinese village pump.
>
> Here is a link of the mail and
> translation:
>
>
> http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88#.E6.94.B9.E5.8F.98IP.E7.9A.84.E5.8E.9F.E5.9B.A0.E7.BA.AF.E5.B1.9E.E6.8A.80.E6.9C.AF.E5.8E.9F.E5.9B.A0
>
> Regards
> Ting
>
> --
> Highspeed-Freiheit. Bei GMX superg?nstig, z.B. GMX DSL_Cityflat,
> DSL-Flatrate f?r nur 4,99 Euro/Monat* http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


subject:
[Foundation-l] Re: Benefits of advertising (was Re: Our
 exponentially increasing costs)

body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
<snip>
> Then as a longstanding member of the community with a good reputation, I
> ask for your help in explaining to them how it is *not* advertising.  In
> order to do that, you'll have to stop spinning wild accusations first
> and ask some basic questions about the deal until you understand it.
>
> --Jimbo

Maybe there could be a FAQ about the deal somewhere on meta: or wmf.org
website and make sure everyone know where is that FAQ and spread it in
the community ;)

The only trouble seems to be a lack a communication between the board
and the community. Maybe I am not looking at the good place though.

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


from_name: kelvSYC

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia on Macworld

body:
Here's a brief mention of Wikipedia on Macworld, in their review of
the 06 editions of Britannica and World Book:

http://www.macworld.com/2005/10/reviews/encyclopedias/index1.php


body:
On 10/31/05, uninvited at nerstrand.net <uninvited at nerstrand.net> wrote:
> There are 661 admins on en.wikipedia.  Of these, 461 were active during
> the month of October, 2005.  They deleted 60313 pages, blocked 12854
> vandals, trolls, and socks, and protected 1227 pages.  691 pages were
> undeleted.
>
> User                 Delete Protect Block Unbl Unprot Undel Total
> Fredrik              5      0       1     0    0      1     7

Hmm, I need to block more users.

--
Fredrik Johansson
User:Fredrik


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Really, though, if we hold any hope that they might ever lift the
> block, does it really help our case to be seen as evading it?
>

If anyone asks, please make it clear that the IP change was done for
technical reasons. We had already deployed LVS on the Amsterdam cluster,
before the ban started. We would have deployed it weeks ago on the Florida
cluster but for lack of a suitable machine. It was just a matter of time
before we did it in Seoul, it's a much better system than DNS round-robin.

While I've been careful in the past not to jeopardise petition attempts, I
don't think we should go so far as to avoid changing our IPs, to stay within
the very small set that the PRC blocked.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Thomas Gries

subject:
[Wikitech-l] PHP Security Information: PHP File-Upload $GLOBALS
	Overwrite Vulnerability

body:
To whom it may concern:

PHP File-Upload $GLOBALS Overwrite Vulnerability
http://www.hardened-php.net/advisory_202005.79.html

$GLOBAL Overwrite and it's Consequences:
http://www.hardened-php.net/index.76.html