from_name: Cary Bass

subject: [Commons-l] Flag copyright

body:
On 6/30/06, Matt Brown wrote:

>
> Depends where you are in the world.  In the United States, there is a
> minimum creativity bar to clear, which accurate copying generally does
> not.  Thus in the US exact copying does not create new copyright.
>
> In some other places in the world, new copyright is created every time
> a new copy of the work is created - this "mechanical copyright" means
> that a copy of a public-domain work is not necessarily public domain.
> This is the case in the UK among others, I believe.
>

How should we apply this?  I believe that as the flag itself is a PD object,
that gives us the license to yield to what Matt states is US law.

My own interpretetion:  If it appears that a graphics program adept (they're
familiar with the graphics program, be it Photoshop or Inkscape or whatever,
that they're using) put a significant amount of creativity (a billable
amount of time, more than 2-4 hours dependant on level of expertise) into
the design, they may be able to claim copyright on it.  Either delete it or
modify it significantly (put another hour into it), or upload a decent copy
of your own.

Frankly, I think it's just silly to claim copyright on a flag.  I also think
it's silly to upload a flag you got from a site that claims copyright.

Cary Bass


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Magnus Manske

subject:
[WikiEN-l] SPEEDYING images Re: Jimbo's rule, copyright,
 old images with permission only

body:
Pedro Sanchez wrote:
> On 6/29/06, Pedro Sanchez <pdsanchez at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/29/06, Anthony <wikilegal at inbox.org> wrote:
>>
>>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>>> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>>
>>>
>> something strange is that it shows images I've reverted as mine
>> (several fair-use images I didn't upload, merely reverted some
>> vandalism) ~~~~
>>
>>
>
> Also, what do "shadow commons" do? It seems to attemp to insert
> {{ShadowCommons}} on the en: image, but suchtemplate doesn't exist.
>

It's used on de to mark an image that blocks a different image from
commons with the same name.

What's the correct template for that on en?

Magnus


body:
Theresa Knott wrote:
> On 6/29/06, Magnus Manske <magnus.manske at web.de> wrote:
>
>> Anthony schrieb:
>>
>>> On 6/28/06, Pedro Sanchez <pdsanchez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, my point is, why aren't these being speedied like the new ones?
>>>> If giving time for finding replacements was the issue, plenty of time
>>>> has been given, (yet precisely since they were kept, noone is
>>>> bothering to find free replacements).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Is there somewhere I can get a list of the images I've uploaded which
>>> don't fall under the current tagging rules?
>>>
>>> Is there even a place where I can get a list of the images I've uploaded?
>>>
>>>
>> http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/pushforcommons.php?language=en&wikiuser=Your_user_name_on_en
>>
>> will show all your images on en, and tries to guess their status by the
>> used tags/templates. If it doesn't recognize a specific tag correctly,
>> please tell me so I can fix it.
>>
>> Magnus
>>
>
> Can it be used to find images on wikibooks?
>
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/pushforcommons.php?language=en&project=wikibooks
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/pushforcommons.php?language=en&project=wikibooks&wikiuser=Your_user_name_on_en_wikibooks

Magnus


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] New SVN committer

body:
Added Ilmari Karonen (vyznev); has been working on misc fixups and patches.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject: [Wikitech-l] New diff feature for Wikipedia

body:
On 6/30/06, Platonides <Platonides at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> As a side note, there's currently a script on toolserver querying every
> change on wikipedia. Ask for some revisions when a user calls the php
> shouldn't matter in comparison ;-)
> External storage is a toolserver problem so i don't know why you complain to
> me so much about it. Morevoer, there're worse methods of implementating it,
> what about doing it on javascript? hahaha.

There is a huge difference between reading every article change (less
than 1 per second on a one month average) and reading all of the
9000ish revisions to George W. Bush every time someone wants to view
the blame map.


from_name: Jon Awbrey

subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Complaint:  Priority Inversion
Specifics:  Pseudo-Consensus Overturning the Big Three (and the Five Pillars)

JA = Jon Awbrey
MB = Matt Brown

MB: So I have some questions:

MB 1.  What would have been the ideal outcome in this case?

JA: First off, no single case of alleged abuse proves anything.
    I am responding to the request to cite a number of actual
    incidents, and it is the pattern of conduct that we ought
    to be concerned about, namely, where 2 or 3 or 4 possibly
    different persons, and possibly independent voices, or
    possibly not, acted in a way that I am alleging rather
    obviously violates what are and ought to be higher
    priority norms of participation in WP.  These are,
    among others, lack of due regard for Relevant and
    Verifiable information, in contrast with the mere
    opinion of the editors, consensus or otherwise,
    and lack of due regard for the good faith time
    and effort of other editors to improve the
    quality of an article.

JA: The pattern of conduct that was exhibited over the space
    of a few days by this small group "new users" was a type
    of slash and burn and section blanking that I personally
    consider to be nothing short of rank vandalism, whether
    anybody else had the boldness to call it that or not.

JA: The ideal outcome in this case and the others like it --
    what should be the routine outcome if the Policies of
    WP are respected in their declared order of priority --
    would be that a simple reference to [[WP:Policy]]
    would suffice to remind the editor(s) in question
    what is most important in Wikipedia, as opposed,
    let us say, to the rules of some chat-room.

Have to break here.

Jon Awbrey

MB. 2.  Do you think the editors should be forced to discuss
    the issue with you before removing this block quote?

3.  Do you think consensus should not be used to guide decisions
    regarding Wikipedia content?

4.  If so, then what decision making process should replace it?

MB: I hope I'm not putting words in Jon Awbrey's mouth by stating that he thinks
> the problem is that when consensus can be defined as "Me and three of my friends
> I IM'd to come and agree with me", there's a problem.  Especially when a "consensus"
> among like-minded people on the same side of an issue can be used to trump core
> Wikipedia policies and standard Wikipedia ways of working.
>
> Part of the issue is that there's always tension between deciding an
> issue for good on the one hand, and having every single opinionated
> person coming along to any article being able to re-open things for
> which an adequate conclusion has already been reached.
>
> Standard Wikipedia policy / practise here is that there are no
> permanent decisions on Wikipedia apart from core policy, but that if
> an issue has been decided by strong rough consensus, we're resistant
> to re-opening the issue unless the one wishing to re-open it can
> convince enough people that the previous rough consensus no longer
> holds.
>
> "Strong rough consensus" in my opinion means an issue that for the
> vast majority of contributors has a result they can live with - even
> if not outright approve - and that has been reached after a
> satisfactory discussion, a satisfactory attempt at compromise, a
> respect for policy, and with sufficient editors involved that are
> representative on the issue.
>
> IMO, a rough consensus is not a strong one, a good one, if it has been
> arrived at without discussion, without attempts to find common ground,
> without regard for over-riding policy, or without sufficient numbers
> of contributors or variety of points-of-view to be truly
> representative.
>
> There are many editors on Wikipedia who want to truly do the right
> thing and achieve good results.  There are enough others, however, who
> want articles to say exactly what THEY wish them to say, and who will
> game the rules and do everything they can to get their way.   (There
> are probably other categories of editors, of course, but this is
> simplifying).
>
> I have a feeling that another issue Jon has is that some contributors
> are too willing to remove things from articles if they don't like
> them, regardless of the work that went into them, the usefulness of
> the content, or in any way trying to achieve consensus for that
> removal.
>
> Jon, do I have your positions right?
>
> -Matt

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Jon_Awbrey
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o


subject: [Wikitech-l] swedish MediaWiki deafult messages

body:
lejoneln wrote:
> A very big update was made to the Swedish language
> file a some weeks ago. On the swedish Wikimedia
> projects many
> older unupdated messages in the MediWiki namespace
> were edited only by a user called MediaWiki_default
> (some script run on the servers?). Many of those
> messages are now old and "blocks" the updated messages
> in the language files.
>
> Can User:MediaWiki_default update or delete the
> messages on swedish Wikibooks and Wikisource were
> MediaWiki_default is the only contributor? (on the
> other swedish projects administrators has already
> manually deleted those messages, but that seems to be
> unnecceary work if a script can do it automatically).

I've run the updates on all wikis today.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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list: foundation-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
On 7/1/06, Angela Beesley <angela at wikimedia.org> wrote:
[snip]
> I'm certainly not leaving -- just leaving the Board. I
> still intend to be involved with editing the projects, and with the
> formation of the Wikimedia Australia chapter, and, if the
> opportunities still arise, I hope to continue promoting the projects
> at conferences and other events.

Good, then we can all continue to look forward to working with you. :)

[snip]
> My resignation will be effective upon the election of my successor.
> Elections will be held in September, and the planning for those should
> begin immediately.
[snip]

Thats a rather short time frame, considering the discussed plans to
bring in some visionaries from the outside world.  When was this
decided? What if we're unable to have discussions with our proposed
candidates by then?  Hmm.    If you'd like to be replaced earlier I'd
rather appoint an interim member than hurry the process to set the
board for the longer term.

I think it would be more beneficial to have an interim member than to
have elections prematurely and be forced to keep a member who is on
her way out and unhappy with the Foundation for any longer than
absolutely needed..


list: wikimedia-l

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


from_name: Walter Vermeir

subject: [Wikitech-l] OpenDocument file format

body:
Brion Vibber schreef:

> Where specifically would you like them?
>
> We've also gotten requests to disable uploading of document file formats in most
> places, as they're only really relevant in a handful of meta-work wikis, not the
> main content wikis.
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

For at least Meta this could be useful. The option to upload also an
archive file like  .gzip ,.rar or zip would also be useful for Meta.

When people make a poster or a leaflet it is very useful that the can
upload also the source files of that item and not only the end result.
If an archive format can be upload then the file, from whatever the
program is, also be included.

Besides Meta enabling this for all the internal wikis, especially the
comcom-wiki, chapter wikis and foundationwiki can also be useful I suspect.

Side node; the upload function of the comcom wiki does not work.

The upload directory (/mnt/upload3/private/comcom) is not writable by
the webserver.

--
Contact: walter AT wikizine DOT org
Wikizine.org - news for and about the Wikimedia community


body:
On 7/1/06, Tels <nospam-abuse at bloodgate.com> wrote:
> Cache the blame map. In addition, cache it for each revision. Limit the
> cache to "N maps or M megabytes, whatever is reached earlier".
>
> I think it should be possible to generate the blame-map for revision N+1
> from the map of revision N and the diff between the revisions.

Locality is poor, any time you talk about caching revisions you're
fighting a losing battle.

We'd really need incremental production of blame maps... Where you can
take a finished blame map for revisions 1..5 and add revisions 6 and 7
and get the 1..7 blame map.   Then blame maps could be could simply be
generated and stored.. and when they are requested it would only
require fetching the map and updating it.


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Andre Engels

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Common Interwiki links

body:
I have (finally) updated a page I made 1.5 years ago, containing for
many languages the pages on the English Wikipedia that have many
interwikis, but none to that specific language. The list can be found
at [[meta:Common Interwiki links]]. I have shown those languages for
which the number 100 in that list had less than 50 interwiki links.

Most Interwiki links in total had the page [[India]], a wopping 150.
Also more than than 100 were in: [[True Jesus Church]] (132),
[[Wikipedia]] (129), [[Kur?w]] (114), [[United States]] (113),
[[Europe]] (112), [[Bible]] (109), [[Lithuania]] (108), [[Germany]]
(107), [[Russia]] (106), [[Christianity]] (104), [[English language]]
(104), [[France]] (103), [[Geography]] (103) and [[Biology]] (101).

Here the language shown on the page, with for each language a few
examples out of the highest pages on the list (that is, the pages with
most interwiki links without one to that language):

ar: Haiti, Film and Vladimir Putin
bg: German, Iran and Mahatma Gandhi
ca: Ankara, Lion and James Joyce
cs: Hindi, Welsh and Boston Massachusetts
da: Japanese, Law and Virus
de: Avian flu, Mohs scale and Yoghurt
eo: Hard disk, Roman Catholic Church and the Pythagorean theorem
es: North Africa, Abacus and Cooking
et: Architecture, Antarctica and Spanish
eu: Jesus, Japan and Computer
fi: Tourism, Education and Mythology
fr: Greek, Hobby and the Four color theorem
gl: Jesus, Buddhism and Gold
he: 1641, Villeneuve d'Ascq and Korean
hr: Computer, Georgia (country) and Beijing
hu: Algeria, Vladimir Putin and the days of the week
id: Medicine, Buddhism and Dance
it: Jakarta, Leif Ericson and Republic
ja: 1685, Aragonese and Bihar
ko: Dance, Marco Polo and Law
lt: Katowice, China and Qur'an
nl: Domestic pig, Sugar and Plasma
nn: Biology, Mathematics and Plato
no: Sea, Engineering and Sahara
pl: B, Earth's atmosphere and Metaphysics
pt: GNU, Atomic mass and Biotechnology
ro: Bird, Politics and AIDS
ru: Mahatma Gandhi, National anthem and Earth science
simple: Jordan, Che Guevara and Marie Curie
sk: Iceland, Moscow and Christmas
sl: Geology, Angela Merkel and Los Angeles
sr: Solar system, Operating system and Beijing
sv: United Arab Emirates, Education and Alcohol
th: Chess, Agriculture and many African countries
tr: Thailand, Pope and Animal
uk: Algeria, George W. Bush and Karl Marx
zh: Money, Antonio Vivaldi and Aikido

--
Andre Engels, andreengels at gmail.com
ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels


from_name: George Herbert

subject: [WikiEN-l] Tech or policy question: IP blocks

body:
I'm not sure what the right venue is, so I'm asking here...

What is the technical or policy reason that IP blocks don't let
editors with named accounts log in from that IP or IP range anyways?

If someone starts creating socks, those would seem to be easily
identifyable if they're consistently from the same IP or IP range,
unless you're talking about AOL.

With AOL, it would get past a lot of ongoing frustration and admin
efforts (it seems) if users with accounts could log in and edit even
if the IP range or address was blocked for anon use due to vandalism
etc.

I apologize in advance if this is an old argument, but I haven't found
any explanation and would like to be informed on why it's done this
way now, and whether alternatives have been considered in the past.

Thanks.

--
-george william herbert
gherbert at retro.com / george.herbert at gmail.com


from_name: daniwo59 at aol.com

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
In a message dated 7/1/2006 2:04:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
beesley at gmail.com writes:

I don't  think two months to organise an election is too short. This is
about  electing someone from the community, not about bringing
"visionaries from  the outside world". Such people are more likely to
be appointed than  elected, and that will take place separately.

Just to point out what was clearly an oversight, Michael Davis is certainly
an active member of the Board, though his work is behind the scenes. It is his
 dedication and meticulous attention to financial matters that keep the
Foundation running.

Danny


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


list: commons-l

from_name: Matt Brown

subject: [Commons-l] Flag copyright

body:
I'd say in general with flags, we should be able to create our own
illustration from scratch and thus avoid the whole issue.

-Matt


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
My earlier comment was actually in reference to this paragraph below. Once
again, Michael is certainly one of the most active members of the board, even
if  it is not always visible to everyone.

Danny

In a message dated 7/1/2006 2:04:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
beesley at gmail.com writes:

It's  been under discussion since I told the Board I was resigning on
June 2. An  interim replacement was discussed, but there was no
agreement between the  remaining active members of the Board (basically
Anthere and Jimbo) on who  that should be, which is why my resignation
is now not effective until  September rather than the original planned
date of July  1st.


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


from_name: Rob Church

body:
On 01/07/06, Platonides <Platonides at gmail.com> wrote:
> As a side note, there's currently a script on toolserver querying every
> change on wikipedia. Ask for some revisions when a user calls the php
> shouldn't matter in comparison ;-)

Whose?

> External storage is a toolserver problem so i don't know why you complain to
> me so much about it. Morevoer, there're worse methods of implementating it,
> what about doing it on javascript? hahaha.

I'm not complaining, so don't misrepresent me as doing so. I'm
pointing out that a strong reliance upon text access is not too
brilliant for a project running on the toolserver at present.

Rob Church


from_name: Fastfission

subject: [WikiEN-l] Offline submissions?

body:
On 7/1/06, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D

I didn't say or imply there was anything wrong with them. I just find
it ironic that the same people who are supposedly responsible for the
systemic bias at Wikipedia (middle class, technically proficient,
intellectual white males in English speaking countries) are also the
ones who are most likely to be overly concerned about systemic bias to
the point of woolly thinking and lots of nervous hand-wringing. ;-)

I say this of course as a middle class, technically proficient,
intellectual white male in an English speaking country.

FF


subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Complaint:  Priority Inversion
Specifics:  Pseudo-Consensus Overturning the Big Three (and the Five Pillars)

JA = Jon Awbrey
MB = Matt Brown

Continuation --

MB: So I have some questions:

MB: 2. Do you think the editors should be forced to discuss
       the issue with you before removing this block quote?

JA: Again, the issue not the presence or absence of a single quotation.
    I once started out a routine copyedit of an article and found myself
    in the middle of a personal essay, with no citations but the author's
    own blog, that turned into a not so [[desultory philippic]] against some
    of the author's former colleagues at a university named in the indictment,
    and ended by giving their email addresses and home pages.  I deleted the
    personal aspersions and personnel data forthwith and moved the essay to
    talk with a request for anybody that still cared about it to clean it up
    and cite a few reliable sources or forget it.  I think that any sensible
    editor would do that.

JA: But that's not what we are talking about.
    We're talking about a series of deletions
    that made the following total difference
    to an article:

Total Difference:  23:51, 10 June 2006 (edit) --> 08:13, 12 June 2006 (edit)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Charles_Peirce&diff=58174814&oldid=57953106

And it was no personal essay or unsourced content that got deleted in the process.

Jon Awbrey

MB: 3. Do you think consensus should not be used to guide
       decisions regarding Wikipedia content?

MB: 4. If so, then what decision making process should replace it?

MB: I hope I'm not putting words in Jon Awbrey's mouth by stating that he thinks
    the problem is that when consensus can be defined as "Me and three of my friends
    I IM'd to come and agree with me", there's a problem.  Especially when a "consensus"
    among like-minded people on the same side of an issue can be used to trump core
    Wikipedia policies and standard Wikipedia ways of working.

MB: Part of the issue is that there's always tension between deciding an
    issue for good on the one hand, and having every single opinionated
    person coming along to any article being able to re-open things for
    which an adequate conclusion has already been reached.

MB: Standard Wikipedia policy / practise here is that there are no
    permanent decisions on Wikipedia apart from core policy, but that if
    an issue has been decided by strong rough consensus, we're resistant
    to re-opening the issue unless the one wishing to re-open it can
    convince enough people that the previous rough consensus no longer
    holds.

MB: "Strong rough consensus" in my opinion means an issue that for the
    vast majority of contributors has a result they can live with - even
    if not outright approve - and that has been reached after a
    satisfactory discussion, a satisfactory attempt at compromise, a
    respect for policy, and with sufficient editors involved that are
    representative on the issue.

MB: IMO, a rough consensus is not a strong one, a good one, if it has been
    arrived at without discussion, without attempts to find common ground,
    without regard for over-riding policy, or without sufficient numbers
    of contributors or variety of points-of-view to be truly
    representative.

MB: There are many editors on Wikipedia who want to truly do the right
    thing and achieve good results.  There are enough others, however, who
    want articles to say exactly what THEY wish them to say, and who will
    game the rules and do everything they can to get their way.   (There
    are probably other categories of editors, of course, but this is
    simplifying).

MB: I have a feeling that another issue Jon has is that some contributors
    are too willing to remove things from articles if they don't like
    them, regardless of the work that went into them, the usefulness of
    the content, or in any way trying to achieve consensus for that
    removal.

MB: Jon, do I have your positions right?

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Jon_Awbrey
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o


from_name: stevertigo

subject: [WikiEN-l] Two movie starlets in two weeks?

body:
Is there some payola going on?

SV

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: mboverload

body:
Huh?  What are you talking about?

On 7/1/06, stevertigo <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is there some payola going on?
>
> SV
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
Sorry I thought featured articles were obvious.

Uma,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/June_2006#June_25
meet Lindsay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/

S

--- mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:

> Huh?  What are you talking about?
>
> On 7/1/06, stevertigo <vertigosteve at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Is there some payola going on?
> >
> > SV
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
Jon Awbrey wrote:
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
>
> daniel,
>
> please provide guidance,
> is what you added the
> very modern model
> of signal,
> or noise?
>

The SNR of your posts is about -10dB. Please stop.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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from_name: Tels

body:
Moin,

On Saturday 01 July 2006 18:00, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On 6/30/06, Platonides <Platonides at gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > As a side note, there's currently a script on toolserver querying
> > every change on wikipedia. Ask for some revisions when a user calls
> > the php shouldn't matter in comparison ;-)
> > External storage is a toolserver problem so i don't know why you
> > complain to me so much about it. Morevoer, there're worse methods of
> > implementating it, what about doing it on javascript? hahaha.
>
> There is a huge difference between reading every article change (less
> than 1 per second on a one month average) and reading all of the
> 9000ish revisions to George W. Bush every time someone wants to view
> the blame map.

Cache the blame map. In addition, cache it for each revision. Limit the
cache to "N maps or M megabytes, whatever is reached earlier".

I think it should be possible to generate the blame-map for revision N+1
from the map of revision N and the diff between the revisions.

Best wishes,

Tels

--
 Signed on Sat Jul  1 19:20:27 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "Wo die Schoschonen sch?n wohnen."

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body:
Sorry, I don't look at the main page for weeks at a time =D

mboverload

On 7/1/06, stevertigo <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry I thought featured articles were obvious.
>
> Uma,
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/June_2006#June_25
> meet Lindsay:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/
>
> S
>
> --- mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Huh?  What are you talking about?
> >
> > On 7/1/06, stevertigo <vertigosteve at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there some payola going on?
> > >
> > > SV
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
Angela,

this is a very regrettable decision, and a sad day for the Wikimedia
Foundation. Since your election to the Board in June 2004, you have
spoken and acted for the principles of the Foundation with wisdom,
with clarity, with passion, and above all, with integrity.

You have put enormous amounts of time and energy into the projects,
met with members of the community around the globe, helped develop the
organization's structure and policies, communicated with hundreds of
people who (rightly or wrongly) felt the Board could solve all their
problems, and represented Wikimedia at conferences and in interviews
on countless occasions.

I am glad that you will continue your work within the projects, and
for Wikimedia Australia -- the chapter could not be luckier to have
you in its founding team. Nevertheless, your resignation from the
Board represents a great loss for the Foundation, from which it will
be difficult to recover.

I can say with absolute conviction that most people on this mailing
list don't know how much you have done for Wikimedia; not because they
haven't been paying attention, but because so much of it was
invisible. For your great contributions, and for everything, you
deserve the gratitude of the entire community. You certainly have
mine.

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


from_name: SJ

subject: [WikiEN-l] Offline submissions?

body:
On 6/26/06, Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why not the talk page? In the beginning at least, it seems quite
> feasible simply to append tags like:
>
> ==Incoming email 26/6/06==
> From: <some mangling of email address>
> <text.............>
>
> Then people could deal with that text in the normal ways, adding
> comments as to whether they think it's worth including etc. What's the
> downside?

I like this idea a lot.

> > Accreditation in history would be a problem if the one
> > who submitted the ticket wants credit. Some may not
>
> True. Maybe at first simply deny them that opportunity? Or you know,
> in the edit summary you could always put the source so it's not
> *totally* lost.

Not hard to provide accreditatoin; it wouldn't show up in history,
it's true.  but there's a more general issue of
user-login/validatoin-abstraction to be dealt with there.  Edit
summary is fine, for moral and gfdl purposes.

SJ


subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Complaint:  Priority Inversion
Specifics:  Pseudo-Consensus Overturning the Big Three (and the Five Pillars)

JA = Jon Awbrey
MB = Matt Brown

MB: So I have some questions:

MB: 2. Do you think the editors should be forced to discuss
       the issue with you before removing this block quote?

JA: The general question is whether editors can be forced to do anything.
    The answer is that WP has no enforcement power against any persons,
    and thus it has no enforceable policies whatsoever.  All Management
    can do is to block IPs, but that has no effect on persons except to
    introduce a minor inconvenience into their ability to edit pages.

JA: I don't believe in force.  I believe in education and information.
    That is -- was -- the only reason for believing that WP might be
    worth spending some time and energy on.  But you can't force
    people to act according to the primary WP policies if they
    don't want to, and it does not seem like they want to.
    Something like 90% of what people have been saying
    to me on this List has been this:  "But we can't
    really do it by the Book, so let's just do it
    any way we darn well please."  That pretty
    much confirms what I had already seen in
    WP itself.

MB: 3. Do you think consensus should not be used to guide
       decisions regarding Wikipedia content?

JA: The question is not what I think.
    The question is what [[WP:Policy]] says.
    But there is no question as to what it says:

JA: The pages on [[WP:POLICY]] clearly identify the three content-definitive and
    non-negotiable policies of WP as [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:NPOV]], and [[WP:VERIFY]],
    reiterating three times over on each of their individually dedicated pages,
    with no substantive variation, the following norm of participation in WP:

Quote: These three policies are non-negotiable and cannot be superseded
       by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus.

JA: You can't force people to prefer sourced information over ungrounded opinion --
    it's either something in the their bones, something they are trained to do,
    or something that the hard knocks of reality have cudgeled them into.

JA: When a small number of editors put their heads together and "vote" a bit
    of unsourced opinion into an article, then those editors are arrogating
    to themselves the role of the primary source for that opinion, which is
    to say that the opinion in question orginates with those editors, and
    that spells Original Research with a capital "O" "R", and that spells
    trouble in WP City.

JA: This is one of the main reasons why editorial opinion,
    con-sensus or con-census or otherwise, is just plain
    not permitted to overrule NOR, NPOV, and VERIFY.

Jon Awbrey

MB: 4. If so, then what decision making process should replace it?

MB: I hope I'm not putting words in Jon Awbrey's mouth by stating that he thinks
    the problem is that when consensus can be defined as "Me and three of my friends
    I IM'd to come and agree with me", there's a problem.  Especially when a "consensus"
    among like-minded people on the same side of an issue can be used to trump core
    Wikipedia policies and standard Wikipedia ways of working.

MB: Part of the issue is that there's always tension between deciding an
    issue for good on the one hand, and having every single opinionated
    person coming along to any article being able to re-open things for
    which an adequate conclusion has already been reached.

MB: Standard Wikipedia policy / practise here is that there are no
    permanent decisions on Wikipedia apart from core policy, but that if
    an issue has been decided by strong rough consensus, we're resistant
    to re-opening the issue unless the one wishing to re-open it can
    convince enough people that the previous rough consensus no longer
    holds.

MB: "Strong rough consensus" in my opinion means an issue that for the
    vast majority of contributors has a result they can live with - even
    if not outright approve - and that has been reached after a
    satisfactory discussion, a satisfactory attempt at compromise, a
    respect for policy, and with sufficient editors involved that are
    representative on the issue.

MB: IMO, a rough consensus is not a strong one, a good one, if it has been
    arrived at without discussion, without attempts to find common ground,
    without regard for over-riding policy, or without sufficient numbers
    of contributors or variety of points-of-view to be truly
    representative.

MB: There are many editors on Wikipedia who want to truly do the right
    thing and achieve good results.  There are enough others, however, who
    want articles to say exactly what THEY wish them to say, and who will
    game the rules and do everything they can to get their way.   (There
    are probably other categories of editors, of course, but this is
    simplifying).

MB: I have a feeling that another issue Jon has is that some contributors
    are too willing to remove things from articles if they don't like
    them, regardless of the work that went into them, the usefulness of
    the content, or in any way trying to achieve consensus for that
    removal.

MB: Jon, do I have your positions right?

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Jon_Awbrey
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o


from_name: Kim Bruning

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

in_reply_to:
<8b722b800607010939n7cae758ia813d6c3c538b9da@mail.gmail.com>;
	from angela@wikimedia.org on Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 02:39:19AM +1000

body:
On Sun, Jul 02, 2006 at 02:39:19AM +1000, Angela Beesley wrote:
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> It's been a great two years and I've enjoyed the role, but the
> collaborative consensus-based nature Wikimedia had before the start of
> this year continues to deteriorate and it's no longer an environment I
> can work effectively in.
>

Argh! That's why I'd have liked to see you stay on. I respect your
descision, but where do we find another person like you so soon?

read you soon,
	Kim Bruning

--
[Non-pgp mail clients may show pgp-signature as attachment]
gpg (www.gnupg.org) Fingerprint for key  FEF9DD72
5ED6 E215 73EE AD84 E03A  01C5 94AC 7B0E FEF9 DD72


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


from_name: Sam Korn

body:
http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550

On 7/1/06, George Herbert <george.herbert at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what the right venue is, so I'm asking here...
>
> What is the technical or policy reason that IP blocks don't let
> editors with named accounts log in from that IP or IP range anyways?
>
> If someone starts creating socks, those would seem to be easily
> identifyable if they're consistently from the same IP or IP range,
> unless you're talking about AOL.
>
> With AOL, it would get past a lot of ongoing frustration and admin
> efforts (it seems) if users with accounts could log in and edit even
> if the IP range or address was blocked for anon use due to vandalism
> etc.
>
> I apologize in advance if this is an old argument, but I haven't found
> any explanation and would like to be informed on why it's done this
> way now, and whether alternatives have been considered in the past.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> gherbert at retro.com / george.herbert at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Sam


subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

JA = Jon Awbrey
MB = Matt Brown

MB: So I have some questions:

MB: 4. If so, then what decision making process should replace it?

JA: I think that editors should read the WP policies early and often
    and decide for themselves whether they really believe that's the
    way it ought to be done.  People who are used to the requirements
    of accurate, balanced reporting, and responsible scholarship find
    those principles already familiar, because that's the rules of the
    game that they've been living by all along.  Other people seem to
    read that stuff and go "yeah sure", then they go right back to the
    type of popularity contest of ideas that they are familiar with.
    Until the community embodies those principles as secind nature,
    it doesn't really matter whether they use Robot's Rules or just
    draw straws.

MB: I hope I'm not putting words in Jon Awbrey's mouth by stating that he thinks
    the problem is that when consensus can be defined as "Me and three of my friends
    I IM'd to come and agree with me", there's a problem.  Especially when a "consensus"
    among like-minded people on the same side of an issue can be used to trump core
    Wikipedia policies and standard Wikipedia ways of working.

JA: Yes, that's a good way to put it.

MB: Part of the issue is that there's always tension between deciding an
    issue for good on the one hand, and having every single opinionated
    person coming along to any article being able to re-open things for
    which an adequate conclusion has already been reached.

JA: I have run into some pretty insistent 1-idea or 1-issue people in WP.
    In my experience folks like that are not really all that big a problem.
    Two sorts of things typically happen.  (1) You find some way to include
    a 1-liner in the article that accommodates their POV.  (2) Your have to
    be firm with them about the fact that bowing to their issue would violate
    a non-negotiable WP policy.  One of the reasons that these people are not
    that big a problem is that they are somewhat aware that their idea or their
    issue is an individual or minority position, and so you don't have to make
    them conscious of the fact that it ''is'' a POV.  The Really Big Problems,
    the so far just about insoluble problems in WP compliance come from people
    who have never had, or can't remember ever having had a different POV from
    the one they now have, or who have always been confluent with what happens
    to be the dominant "religion" (POV) in their parish.  These folks are not
    even aware that they have a POV, so they can't imagine how could it be
    anything but neutral, or how any other POV could even be regarded as
    rational.  So they have a divine duty to stamp out all diversity.

JA: In the comments from MB that follow, I am guesssing that he is
    talking only about policy pages, not the main body of articles.
    As far as content goes, that is, on pages that are not being
    watched by masses of observers all the time, the partisans
    of the "instant consensus" never check to see what kind
    of concensus may have preceded them.

MB: Standard Wikipedia policy/practise here is that there are no
    permanent decisions on Wikipedia apart from core policy, but
    that if an issue has been decided by strong rough consensus,
    we're resistant to re-opening the issue unless the one wishing
    to re-open it can convince enough people that the previous
    rough consensus no longer holds.

MB: "Strong rough consensus" in my opinion means an issue that for the
    vast majority of contributors has a result they can live with - even
    if not outright approve - and that has been reached after a
    satisfactory discussion, a satisfactory attempt at compromise, a
    respect for policy, and with sufficient editors involved that are
    representative on the issue.

MB: IMO, a rough consensus is not a strong one, a good one, if it has been
    arrived at without discussion, without attempts to find common ground,
    without regard for over-riding policy, or without sufficient numbers
    of contributors or variety of points-of-view to be truly
    representative.

MB: There are many editors on Wikipedia who want to truly do the right
    thing and achieve good results.  There are enough others, however, who
    want articles to say exactly what THEY wish them to say, and who will
    game the rules and do everything they can to get their way.   (There
    are probably other categories of editors, of course, but this is
    simplifying).

MB: I have a feeling that another issue Jon has is that some contributors
    are too willing to remove things from articles if they don't like
    them, regardless of the work that went into them, the usefulness of
    the content, or in any way trying to achieve consensus for that
    removal.

MB: Jon, do I have your positions right?

JA: The main thing will be whether the majority of editors understands the
    WP policies, and why the actual community practice departs so widely
    from the preaching.

JA: I will have to leave it at that.

Jon Awbrey

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Jon_Awbrey
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o


from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-07-02

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Running test Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test Language converter: output gets cut off unexpectedly (bug 5757)... FAILED!
Running test HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!

Passed 394 of 407 tests (96.81%) FAILED!


from_name: Daniel R. Tobias

subject: [WikiEN-l] Offline submissions?

body:
On 30 Jun 2006 at 23:52, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D

They like to top-post their e-mail replies?

--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/


subject: [WikiEN-l] Offline submissions?

body:
If you want to tell me how to fix this in gmail, go ahead =D

On 7/1/06, Daniel R. Tobias <dan at tobias.name> wrote:
>
> On 30 Jun 2006 at 23:52, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D
>
> They like to top-post their e-mail replies?
>
>
> --
> == Dan ==
> Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
> Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
> Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Jacky PB

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
Hello everybody,

On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
about you".

But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
private message, nor insulted his folks).

You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
let me "live and let live".

This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
"shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
offences.

--- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:

> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Nonwithstanding
>
> Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> insulted by your
> support of union of Moldova and Romania.
>
> You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> you do not believe
> Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> decisions?
> Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> their countrymen
> voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> shoddy country in
> 1994?
>
> Mark

:en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
Please remind him to talk in a civil manner to ALL contributors of every
WikiMedia project.  If he has an issue, he should discuss it here on the
mailing list.

mboverload

On 7/2/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> about you".
>
> But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> private message, nor insulted his folks).
>
> You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> let me "live and let live".
>
> This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> offences.
>
> --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> > From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Nonwithstanding
> >
> > Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> > insulted by your
> > support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> >
> > You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> > you do not believe
> > Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> > decisions?
> > Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> > their countrymen
> > voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> > shoddy country in
> > 1994?
> >
> > Mark
>
> :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
I never sent you such an e-mail.

Mark

On 02/07/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> about you".
>
> But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> private message, nor insulted his folks).
>
> You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> let me "live and let live".
>
> This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> offences.
>
> --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> > From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Nonwithstanding
> >
> > Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> > insulted by your
> > support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> >
> > You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> > you do not believe
> > Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> > decisions?
> > Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> > their countrymen
> > voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> > shoddy country in
> > 1994?
> >
> > Mark
>
> :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I
can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline,
Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are
exactly what I would call "respectable".

Mark

On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> I never sent you such an e-mail.
>
> Mark
>
> On 02/07/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> > your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> > about you".
> >
> > But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> > only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> > unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> > private message, nor insulted his folks).
> >
> > You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> > let me "live and let live".
> >
> > This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> > our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> > "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> > offences.
> >
> > --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> > > From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Nonwithstanding
> > >
> > > Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> > > insulted by your
> > > support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> > >
> > > You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> > > you do not believe
> > > Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> > > decisions?
> > > Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> > > their countrymen
> > > voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> > > shoddy country in
> > > 1994?
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> > :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


from_name: Angela Beesley

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
Dear Wikimedians,

I have decided resign from the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation.

There are many reasons behind my decision. Overall, it's not because
I'm unhappy being involved with Wikimedia, though I am concerned about
certain events and tendencies that have arisen within the organisation
since the start of this year. I would prefer to be involved in
Wikimedia from a different angle rather than focusing my attention on
Board matters. I'm certainly not leaving -- just leaving the Board. I
still intend to be involved with editing the projects, and with the
formation of the Wikimedia Australia chapter, and, if the
opportunities still arise, I hope to continue promoting the projects
at conferences and other events.

It's been a great two years and I've enjoyed the role, but the
collaborative consensus-based nature Wikimedia had before the start of
this year continues to deteriorate and it's no longer an environment I
can work effectively in.

My resignation will be effective upon the election of my successor.
Elections will be held in September, and the planning for those should
begin immediately. Discussions are currently underway about general
restructuring of the Board, and it is possible more positions will be
available by the time the election starts. I would like to encourage
anyone who shares the Foundation's goal of distributing free content
to become more involved in the organisation and to consider standing
in the upcoming elections.

There are a lot of changes planned to the structure of the Foundation
but I'm confident Anthere and Jimmy will manage those well and in
accordance with what is best for the projects and the communities
behind them.

Please contact me offlist if you have any questions.

Angela.

--
Angela Beesley
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
And what you forgot to mention, Jacky, is that you yourself harassed
me at my own livejournal.

"What you forgot to mention is that you don't know those languages and
you use free on-line translators. The result is obviously of the
finest shit quality (and you just can't stop editing!). You start
flame wars on subjects you know nothing about. You definitively proved
you're an idiot (just google for: Mark Williamson, node_ue, Arizona,
United States, 1989-08-18, node.ue at gmail.com, AOL IchiUpsideDown, ICQ
97325293, YM node_ue, aaaboyz1 at hotmail.com to see the results). Isn't
this just what you looked for? You may stop now and let the world move
on. Any more action from you is useless. People don't make statues to
morons."

"You missed the point, butthead: 1. Stop editing in languages you
don't know! Stop arguing on matters way beyond you comprehension
abilities! You may use your plenty of free time READING instead
writing stupidities (try google again) - it would be a good thing for
both you and humankind. 2. This is not about your stupid font. 3. I
have more important things to do than exposing myself to persons like
you. A good example would be farting (at least it's pleasurable)."

Mark

On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I
> can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline,
> Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are
> exactly what I would call "respectable".
>
> Mark
>
> On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I never sent you such an e-mail.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On 02/07/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> > > your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> > > about you".
> > >
> > > But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> > > only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> > > unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> > > private message, nor insulted his folks).
> > >
> > > You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> > > let me "live and let live".
> > >
> > > This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> > > our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> > > "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> > > offences.
> > >
> > > --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> > > > From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Nonwithstanding
> > > >
> > > > Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> > > > insulted by your
> > > > support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> > > >
> > > > You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> > > > you do not believe
> > > > Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> > > > decisions?
> > > > Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> > > > their countrymen
> > > > voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> > > > shoddy country in
> > > > 1994?
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > >
> > > :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
> >
>
>
> --
> Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
>

--
Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.


from_name: Jeffrey V. Merkey

subject: [Foundation-l] WikiX Image Synchronization Utility Posted

body:
Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
missing images from Wikipedia commons and
Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.

invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:

/wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
./image_sh >& image.log &

The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.

Enjoy.

The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
is small) and the tar gz is also available from

ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images

Jeff V. Merkey

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body:
Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
missing images from Wikipedia commons and
Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.

invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:

/wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
./image_sh >& image.log &

The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.

Enjoy.

The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
is small) and the tar gz is also available from

ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images

Jeff V. Merkey

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body:
Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
missing images from Wikipedia commons and
Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.

invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:

/wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
./image_sh >& image.log &

The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.

Enjoy.

The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
is small) and the tar gz is also available from

ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images

Jeff V. Merkey

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body:
Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
missing images from Wikipedia commons and
Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.

invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:

/wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
./image_sh >& image.log &

The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.

Enjoy.

The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
is small) and the tar gz is also available from

ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images

Jeff V. Merkey

-------------- next part --------------
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from_name: geni

body:
On 7/2/06, stevertigo <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is there some payola going on?
>
> SV

No just our young male demographic writeing about the things they are
interested in (and things that are fairly easy to source). The overuse
of fair use in the LL article is rather worrying though.

--
geni


from_name: Angela

subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation

body:
On 7/2/06, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thats a rather short time frame, considering the discussed plans to
> bring in some visionaries from the outside world.

I don't think two months to organise an election is too short. This is
about electing someone from the community, not about bringing
"visionaries from the outside world". Such people are more likely to
be appointed than elected, and that will take place separately.

> When was this decided?

It's been under discussion since I told the Board I was resigning on
June 2. An interim replacement was discussed, but there was no
agreement between the remaining active members of the Board (basically
Anthere and Jimbo) on who that should be, which is why my resignation
is now not effective until September rather than the original planned
date of July 1st.

> What if we're unable to have discussions with our proposed
> candidates by then?

You have two months to do that. The two previous elections didn't
allow any longer and I don't recall any problems with that timeframe.

Angela.


subject: [Foundation-l] Resignation


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
I'm willing to give any person with wikipedia
credentials (admin/sysop/etc) access to my yahoo mail
account, for this matter to be investigated.

It's an account I set for wikipedia business. Also,
it's a Yahoo accont, meaning that it's subject to
rules I cannot control.

Yours,

:en:Dpotop

--- Sabine Cretella <sabine_cretella at yahoo.it> wrote:

> I don't know Mark personally, but this sounds
> strange to me ... really
> strange ... are you sure it was him???  The text
> does not read like one
> of his ...
>
> Well anyway: he does not try to get the Romanian
> wikipedia closed down,
> right? I suppose there are as much problems there as
> on any other
> wikipedia ... so what's the point?
>
> Considering all that stuff I read on "proposals for
> closing down
> wikipedias" - people have some quite serious
> problems when it comes to
> NPOV ... hmmm ...
>
> And if articles are copied from the Romanian
> wikipedia only using
> another script and people say articles on the
> Moldavian wikipedia are
> plain wrong also in contents ... doesn't this mean
> they are wrong as
> well on the Romanian wikipedia?
>
> Come on: stop it ... if the quality really is not
> good: instead of
> struggling and figthing care about the wikipedia
> where you work on and
> not about those where others work on (and where you
> do not seem to be
> interested in). This is valid for all who seem to
> have too much time for
> POV but strange enough too little for really
> contributing.
>
> Sorry, but I believe we read enough about this
> matter.
>
> Again: live and let live ... stop fighting - it's
> time to show that
> wikipedians are tolerant people. (This sentence is
> for "all" who are
> involved in some kind of dispute.)
>
> I am not going to write any more messages about this
> theme.
>
> Ciao, Sabine
>
>
> Jacky PB schrieb:
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > On the previous Moldovan business thread, I
> received
> > your message on "live and let live" and "we don't
> care
> > about you".
> >
> > But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent
> and
> > only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> > unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him
> a
> > private message, nor insulted his folks).
> >
> > You certainly agree with me that this guy would
> not
> > let me "live and let live".
> >
> > This is the person you implicitly support by
> ignoring
> > our petition: A person that considers Romanians to
> be
> > "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as
> personal
> > offences.
> >
> > --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> >> From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Nonwithstanding
> >>
> >> Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> >> insulted by your
> >> support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> >>
> >> You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear
> that
> >> you do not believe
> >> Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> >> decisions?
> >> Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> >> their countrymen
> >> voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with
> your
> >> shoddy country in
> >> 1994?
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
>
> Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
>
>
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Fred Bauder

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:36 AM, Jacky PB wrote:

> I'm willing to give any person with wikipedia
> credentials (admin/sysop/etc) access to my yahoo mail
> account, for this matter to be investigated.
>
> It's an account I set for wikipedia business. Also,
> it's a Yahoo accont, meaning that it's subject to
> rules I cannot control.
>
> Yours,
>
> :en:Dpotop

Tempting, but I would much rather you just dropped it. I believe you
anyway. I just don't think continuing the dispute gets anyone
anywhere. (Of course, if it was my dispute I would scoff at such
advice and proceed to rant).

Fred


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
> You have to appreciate that people are increasingly
> not interested and that as this whole sorry affair
> continues to annoy, the people involved are also
> increasingly thought to be nuisance.

I have to remind you that me and the community behind
me is just as annoyed as you are of having to spend
time on this junk issue.

But it appears that we are not let to live. We need
you people here because you can make decisions.

Also, we do not require huge amounts of time. We
provided during this discussion simple proof of the
maliciousness in front of us.
It's not like the Trial of Nurnberg, but more like
needing the sheriff do to his job.
It's not rocket science, just facts that can be
checked on wikipedia.

Did any of you look at the proof we provided? Any one.
We believe this would be enough to close the case.

**If one of you says he did that and that he believes
it's not ok, then I quit.**

:en:Dpotop

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
On Jul 2, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Jacky PB wrote:

> he did that and that he believes
> it's not ok

He did that and it is not Ok.

Fred


from_name: Puppy

subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey (Jon Awbrey)

body:
>Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:26:26 -0400
>From: Jon Awbrey <jawbrey at att.net>

<snip>

Enough.

I have edited articles which Jon Awbrey is involved in editing. The words which do *not* come to mind are "concise, clarity, reasonable, verifiable". The words which *do* come to mind are "pontificating, arrogant, obfuscate, verbose, obstinate". IMHO, the issue is not that he has had to deal with POV pushers and aggressive adversaries. The issue is that he writes reams of original research, in overdone pseudo-intellectual style, which obfuscates rather than clarifies any meaning which he might be attempting to present. When anyone asks what he means, he responds in a condescending, rude manner, insulting the questioner. When his ability to write three paragraphs of personal interpretation based upon a one-line source which only tangentially relates to his edit is brought up as a possible OR violation, he dismisses concerns with, again, insults and insistence upon his superiority. In short, he seems congenitally unable to work with others, unless those others are devotees of his personality cult. Any suggestion of modifications of his incredibly convoluted content additions is met with similar accusations of incompetence of his fellow editors. He frequently makes long, windy posts on talk pages, which neither clarify what he is doing to the article nor address any concerns anyone has raised. A strong mentorship in which Verifiability, No original research, Consensus, Civility, and simple respect for fellow editors would do far more to enable him to make productive contributions to Wikipedia than any kind of guidance on "dealing with pov pushing editors and bullies". Teaching him to communicate effectively would be even more help. One presumes he has a point buried in the massive volume which constitute a single post, but locating that point is always challenging, and usually not worth the effort. This has been pointed out to him multiple times, but his response is utter dismissal of the notion that *because he is the one attempting to communicate something, the onus is on him to try to make his meaning clear*. He has now expanded his love affair with his own pontificating beyond articles and talk pages to this list, and as is usual, the response is an initial attempt to understand what on earth he's getting at, followed by a general numbness at the sheer avalanche of self-aggrandizing fluff.

I suggest that if Jon Awbrey wishes to stay with Wikipedia, he be assigned strong mentors, and if not, he be moderated from the list. We don't need another 10,000 emails of an "exit interview" - if he is leaving, a one-line email with the word "goodbye" will cover the subject more than adequately. One puppy's opinion.

-kc-


subject: [WikiEN-l]  Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey (Jon Awbrey)

body:
Take two, formatted. Apologies for the word wrap issue on the previous
email.

 >/Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:26:26 -0400 /
 >/From: Jon Awbrey <jawbrey at att.net
<http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>>

/<snip>

Enough. I have edited articles which Jon Awbrey is involved in editing.
The words which do *not* come to
mind are "concise, clarity, reasonable, verifiable". The words which
*do* come to mind are "pontificating,
arrogant, obfuscate, verbose, obstinate". IMHO, the issue is not that he
has had to deal with POV pushers
and aggressive adversaries. The issue is that he writes reams of
original research, in overdone
pseudo-intellectual style, which obfuscates rather than clarifies any
meaning which he might be attempting to
present. When anyone asks what he means, he responds in a condescending,
rude manner, insulting the
questioner. When his ability to write three paragraphs of personal
interpretation based upon a one-line source
which only tangentially relates to his edit is brought up as a possible
OR violation, he dismisses concerns with,
again, insults and insistence upon his superiority. In short, he seems
congenitally unable to work with others,
unless those others are devotees of his personality cult. Any suggestion
of modifications of his incredibly
convoluted content additions is met with similar accusations of
incompetence of his fellow editors. He
frequently makes long, windy posts on talk pages, which neither clarify
what he is doing to the article nor
address any concerns anyone has raised. A strong mentorship in which
Verifiability, No original research,
Consensus, Civility, and simple respect for fellow editors would do far
more to enable him to make
productive contributions to Wikipedia than any kind of guidance on
"dealing with pov pushing editors and
bullies". Teaching him to communicate effectively would be even more
help. One presumes he has a point
buried in the massive volume which constitute a single post, but
locating that point is always challenging, and
usually not worth the effort. This has been pointed out to him multiple
times, but his response is utter dismissal
of the notion that *because he is the one attempting to communicate
something, the onus is on him to try to
make his meaning clear*. He has now expanded his love affair with his
own pontificating beyond articles and
talk pages to this list, and as is usual, the response is an initial
attempt to understand what on earth he's getting
at, followed by a general numbness at the sheer avalanche of
self-aggrandizing fluff.

I suggest that if Jon Awbrey wishes to stay with Wikipedia, he be
assigned strong mentors, and if not, he be moderated from the list. We
don't need another 10,000 emails of an "exit interview" - if he is
leaving, a one-line email with the word "goodbye" will cover the subject
more than adequately.

One puppy's opinion.
-kc-


subject: [WikiEN-l] Top-posting (was Re:  Offline submissions?)

body:
[top-posting fixed]
On 2 Jul 2006 at 01:30, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/1/06, Daniel R. Tobias <dan at tobias.name> wrote:
>
> > On 30 Jun 2006 at 23:52, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D
> >
> > They like to top-post their e-mail replies?
>
> If you want to tell me how to fix this in gmail, go ahead =D

http://mailformat.dan.info/config/gmail.html

--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/


from_name: John Lyden

subject: [WikiEN-l] [[Geographic_references]]

body:
Move it to Wikipedia:Geographic references?

On 7/2/06, Bogdan Giusca <liste at dapyx.com> wrote:
> What is this page? It's not an article, but it's in the mainspace.
>
> According to speedy deletion criteria, it would be speediable, but
> it's linked by thousands of articles, so...
>
> Any idea what should we do with it?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_references
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
John Lyden - rasputinaxp at gmail.com
"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to
live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same
time..." -Kerouac


from_name: Jon Awbrey

subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Puppy do what puppies do, to wit, [expletive deleted],
but while we're collecting testymoanials on my doorstep,
flaming or otherwise, here is what one of my co-editors
said about me with respect to the issue of originality
when I repeated my standung offer that folks just paste
one of those handy {{fact}} tags next to any statement
that they had doubts about, and that would remind me to
go dig up the source thereof, or else I would remove it:

"No one doubts your capacity to cite sources"
(Banno, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Truth&oldid=59012292
 22:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

This was of course stated as if it were
the most immaterial thing you could say
about a WP editor ... and maybe it is.

Jon Awbrey

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Jon_Awbrey
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o


from_name: GerardM

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
Hoi,
You have to appreciate that people are increasingly not interested and
that as this whole sorry affair continues to annoy, the people
involved are also increasingly thought to be nuisance. This is really
sad, for I know for Mark for instane that he has quite some background
in linguistics. The other people I do not even start to learn because
the nuisance factor is steadily going up.

There is hardly anyone interested anymore in the continued squables;
there is no platform in the WMF that takes the Moldovan/Romanian issue
as a subject that they would want to consider, particularly beause the
current people involved do not give the impression that they would
abide by a verdict given by such a platform.

So please stop and consider if you want to come to a resolution even
if this is not the resolution that you would prefer.

Thanks,
    GerardM

On 7/2/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, let me remind you that this is 100% irrelevant. If you want, I
> can include all of the e-mails I have ever received from you, ronline,
> Bogdan Giusca, and everyone else involved here. Not all of them are
> exactly what I would call "respectable".
>
> Mark
>
> On 02/07/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I never sent you such an e-mail.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On 02/07/06, Jacky PB <dpotop1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> > > your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> > > about you".
> > >
> > > But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> > > only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> > > unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> > > private message, nor insulted his folks).
> > >
> > > You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> > > let me "live and let live".
> > >
> > > This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> > > our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> > > "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> > > offences.
> > >
> > > --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
> > > > From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Nonwithstanding
> > > >
> > > > Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
> > > > insulted by your
> > > > support of union of Moldova and Romania.
> > > >
> > > > You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
> > > > you do not believe
> > > > Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
> > > > decisions?
> > > > Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
> > > > their countrymen
> > > > voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
> > > > shoddy country in
> > > > 1994?
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > >
> > > :en:Dpotop, :ro:Dpotop
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
> >
>
>
> --
> Refije dirije lanm? yo paske nou posede pw?p bato.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Sabine Cretella

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
I don't know Mark personally, but this sounds strange to me ... really
strange ... are you sure it was him???  The text does not read like one
of his ...

Well anyway: he does not try to get the Romanian wikipedia closed down,
right? I suppose there are as much problems there as on any other
wikipedia ... so what's the point?

Considering all that stuff I read on "proposals for closing down
wikipedias" - people have some quite serious problems when it comes to
NPOV ... hmmm ...

And if articles are copied from the Romanian wikipedia only using
another script and people say articles on the Moldavian wikipedia are
plain wrong also in contents ... doesn't this mean they are wrong as
well on the Romanian wikipedia?

Come on: stop it ... if the quality really is not good: instead of
struggling and figthing care about the wikipedia where you work on and
not about those where others work on (and where you do not seem to be
interested in). This is valid for all who seem to have too much time for
POV but strange enough too little for really contributing.

Sorry, but I believe we read enough about this matter.

Again: live and let live ... stop fighting - it's time to show that
wikipedians are tolerant people. (This sentence is for "all" who are
involved in some kind of dispute.)

I am not going to write any more messages about this theme.

Ciao, Sabine

Jacky PB schrieb:
> Hello everybody,
>
> On the previous Moldovan business thread, I received
> your message on "live and let live" and "we don't care
> about you".
>
> But here is what Mark Williamson (the proponent and
> only editor on Moldovan wiki) writes me in an
> unasked-for message (I have never, ever, sent him a
> private message, nor insulted his folks).
>
> You certainly agree with me that this guy would not
> let me "live and let live".
>
> This is the person you implicitly support by ignoring
> our petition: A person that considers Romanians to be
> "shoddy", and takes political oppinions as personal
> offences.
>
> --- Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0700
>> From: "Mark Williamson" <node.ue at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jacky PB" <dpotop1 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Nonwithstanding
>>
>> Your harassment of me nonwithstanding, I'm a bit
>> insulted by your
>> support of union of Moldova and Romania.
>>
>> You do realise, I hope, that this makes clear that
>> you do not believe
>> Moldovans are capable of making our own informed
>> decisions?
>> Considering, of course, that my grandparents and
>> their countrymen
>> voted overwhelmingly (95,4%) against union with your
>> shoddy country in
>> 1994?
>>
>> Mark
>>

Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
 http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com


from_name: James Hare

body:
Also, the technical folk may not be a fan of having software that actually
downloads Wikipedia not via the dumps. While it's not as bad as downloading
all of Wikipedia not through the dumps, a lot has happened in eight months.

On 7/2/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>
>
> Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
> and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
> November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
> English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
> a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
> missing images from Wikipedia commons and
> Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.
>
>
> invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:
>
> /wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
> ./image_sh >& image.log &
>
> The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
> download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
> master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
> is small) and the tar gz is also available from
>
> ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images
>
> Jeff V. Merkey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> all:  wikix
>
> wikix: wikix.c
>         gcc -g wikix.c -o wikix -lssl
>
> clean:
>         rm -f wikix
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>


from_name: Gregory Szorc

subject: [Wikitech-l] Making Group Names Longer

body:
I am implementing a group synchronization feature in my custom authPlugin
and noticed that the ug_group field in the user_groups table is only 16
characters long, which is not nearly long enough!  A quick audit of the code
revealed no problem with simply modifying the database schema to increase
the field length (I hope).  Anyway, I was curious if the devs would
entertain increasing the group name length to something less restrictive,
say 64 or 128 characters.  Also, can someone confirm that modifying the
field length in the database won't cause any irregularities?

Thank you,

Gregory Szorc
gregory.szorc at gmail.com


from_name: Rob

subject: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

body:
On 7/2/06, Mark Gallagher <m.g.gallagher at student.canberra.edu.au> wrote:
> G'day Rob,
>
> > If the majority of editors on the page agree that the block quote is
> > inappropriate, this is concensus.   If you disagree with this
> > decision, you can initiate a discussion on the talk page, and ideally
> > these editors would discuss the issue with you.
>
> I hope this was just a brain fart, and you weren't really arguing that
> majority == consensus.

Apparently, I should have been more precise and said if the
*overwhelming* majority of editors agree that equals consensus.


body:
James Hare wrote:

>Also, the technical folk may not be a fan of having software that actually
>downloads Wikipedia not via the dumps. While it's not as bad as downloading
>all of Wikipedia not through the dumps, a lot has happened in eight months.
>
>
I thought about this before posting it, but full disclosure is always
the best policy. I asked Jim about
how to keep the images synced and he told me he was not aware of any
tool that his technical folks
provided that would do this. So I wrote one that provides the ability to
get the images in a LOW IMPACT
manner (the script is SLOW and takes a long time to sync) so it should
be no more impact on the
wikimedia servers than a standard browser reading articles. The better
solution is to keep the images
archive updated but I can see where this is not feasible since folks are
always posting inappropriate images.

This lets me READ the image descriptions to determine which images are
ok to use based on their licensing, then selectively download
just those images Wikimedia has approved.

Jeff

>On 7/2/06, Jeffrey V. Merkey <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
>>and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
>>November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
>>English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
>>a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
>>missing images from Wikipedia commons and
>>Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.
>>
>>
>>invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:
>>
>>/wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
>>./image_sh >& image.log &
>>
>>The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
>>download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
>>master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.
>>
>>Enjoy.
>>
>>The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
>>is small) and the tar gz is also available from
>>
>>ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images
>>
>>Jeff V. Merkey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>all:  wikix
>>
>>wikix: wikix.c
>>        gcc -g wikix.c -o wikix -lssl
>>
>>clean:
>>        rm -f wikix
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] New SVN committer

body:
Added Jimmy Collins (collinj), German localization updates & misc patches.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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from_name: Steve Bennett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Offline submissions?

body:
Switching your posting style to meet someone else's personal
preferences is lame.

On the other hand, deliberately top-posting to annoy that someone else
(like I'm doing) is obnoxious.

:)

Steve

On 7/2/06, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you want to tell me how to fix this in gmail, go ahead =D
>
> On 7/1/06, Daniel R. Tobias <dan at tobias.name> wrote:
> >
> > On 30 Jun 2006 at 23:52, mboverload <mboverload at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D
> >
> > They like to top-post their e-mail replies?


from_name: Johan Bos

body:
I think some Dutch Wikipedians are not going to like this name "Wikix". :-P

Johan Bos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey V. Merkey" <jmerkey at wolfmountaingroup.com>
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: [Foundation-l] WikiX Image Synchronization Utility Posted

>
> Since the Images files on Wikimedia.org are in a constant state of flux
> and the last 80GB archive of images is 8 months old (made in
> November of 2005) I wrote a program in C that scans an XML dump of the
> English Wikipedia, then constructs and outputs
> a bash script that uses CURL in a non-obtrusive manner to download any
> missing images from Wikipedia commons and
> Wikipedia.  The program runs in background and is low impact.
>
>
> invoke from your /MediaWiki/images/ directory as:
>
> /wikix/wikix < enwiki-<date>-pages-articles.xml > image_sh &
> ./image_sh >& image.log &
>
> The program will invoke CURL (if loaded) after it outputs a full
> download script which will resync any remote wiki with the
> master images on Wikipedia and Wikipedia Commons.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> The source code  and makefiles are attached as text (since the program
> is small) and the tar gz is also available from
>
> ftp.wikigadugi.org/wiki/images
>
> Jeff V. Merkey
>
>
>
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> all:  wikix
>
> wikix: wikix.c
> gcc -g wikix.c -o wikix -lssl
>
> clean:
> rm -f wikix
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: Quistnix

subject: [Wikitech-l] Double quotes in interwiki links don't work

body:
Hi,

To link to e.g.
http://nap.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Comune_d%27%27a_pruvincia_%27e_Avellino
  from another Wikipedia is a problem since the double quotes inside an
interwiki link are interpreted the same way as in text. Can this be helped?

Regards,
Quistnix


body:
On 7/2/06, Quistnix <quistnix at kabelfoon.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> To link to e.g.
> http://nap.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoria:Comune_d%27%27a_pruvincia_%27e_Avellino
>   from another Wikipedia is a problem since the double quotes inside an
> interwiki link are interpreted the same way as in text. Can this be helped?

Yep, same way as for categories on the nap Wikipedia in general:

[[nap:Categoria:Comune d''a pruvincia 'e Avellino]]

I tested this here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Stevage/sandbox

Steve


from_name: Berto

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Harassment on wikipedia

body:
Hoi!

> You have to appreciate that people are increasingly not interested and
> that as this whole sorry affair continues to annoy,
Adding my signature under this.

Thanks
B?rto


from_name: William Allen Simpson

subject: [Wikitech-l] page move vandalism restrictions not working

body:
It amazes me, but several times in the past week, I've been blindsided
by page move vandals.  The current restriction apparently allows moves
automatically after a week?

So, for example, we see see "User:Thing that goes on feet"
create a new user on 2006-06-20 07:38:17, make no contributions
for over a week, and suddenly do nearly 100 moves from 2006-07-01
13:46:01 to 13:52:55.

That's right, as many as 4 moves per second!

So, I propose 2 things:

No bot or editor or administrator should be able to do more than
1 move per minute.  Just reject them.  That should be easy to do
in software.  And maybe enforcement of clearing double redirects.

No bot or editor should be able to do more than 1 edit per 20
seconds.  Just queue the edit until the time has elapsed.  Of
course, administrators should be able to go faster, as they
may be hurrying to fix a problem.

Heck, these days I often have to wait half a minute to see the
response anyway.  But I've noticed "edits" at a rate of 2-3 per
second from "normal" editors at times, and when confronted they've
claimed they aren't using a bot.  Maybe not, but slow them down
enough that others can notice the changes and react in human time
frames.

Bug 6513