from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
David Gerard stated for the record:
> Sean Barrett (sean at epoptic.org) [050816 01:34]:
>
>
>>If it could be shown to the satisfaction of the ArbComm that it was an
>>organized campaign, I would be in favor of a month-long block on the
>>entire address space of the organizers, ''pour encourager les autres''.
>> We are not a blank billboard, and their graffiti is not welcome.
>
>
>
> The latest case being the BBC, it would be well above AC level ;-)

I knew that we were talking about the Beeb as I wrote my original.  If
we had proof that the BBC was deliberately and as a matter of corporate
strategy introducing falsehoods into Wikipedia (and fiction presented as
fact is falsehood), then I would be eager to block them and shout it
from the rooftops.

We don't put up with vandalism.  We should put up with
corporate-planned and -sponsored vandalism even less.

But unlike some, I'll wait for proof before going to war.  ;->

--
  Sean Barrett     | The creature has stolen the Illudium Pu-38
  sean at epoptic.com | explosive space modulator! --Marvin the Martian


list: wikitech-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: James A. Bowery

subject: [Wikitech-l] algebra.com imageleeching

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:

>Image dumps are available from http://download.wikimedia.org/images/
>but are to be used "at your own risk" - as explained in
>http://download.wikimedia.org/images/README_ABOUT_COPYRIGHT.txt
>
>Using the appropriate database dumps you could probably select out a
>reasonable subset using the template-and-category based labelling
>system - i.e. delete those with no such tags, those marked as "fair
>use", and any other licenses likely to be incompatible with your
>mirror.
>
This is the sort of information that should be part of a "best
practices" Wikipedia: namespace topic.


list: wikien-l

from_name: Dan Grey

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 15/08/05, Ben Yates <bluephonic at gmail.com> wrote:
> Still, someone wrote into boingboing with the following:
>
> "I can't say who I am, but I do work at a company that uses Wikipedia
> as a key part of online marketing strategies. That includes planting
> of viral information in entries, modification of entries to point to
> new promotional sites or "leaks" embedded in entries to test diffusion
> of information. Wikipedia is just a more transparent version of
> Myspace as far as some companies are concerned. We love it (evil
> laugh).
>
> On the other side, I love it from an academia/sociological standpoint,
> and I don't necessarily have a problem with it used as a viral
> marketing tool. After all, marketing is a form of information, with
> just a different end point in mind (consuming rather than learning)."
>
> How well can wikipedia protect itself against this unfamiliar sort of
> systemic bias?

Doubt it's even true. Some tiny article hidden in the depths which
gets four visitors a month (ie new page patrollers!) probably isn't
the best way to promote a product/whatever...

Dan


from_name: Matt R

subject: [WikiEN-l] Sphaera Mundi

body:
What's your chief interest here: helping us write an encyclopedia, or driving
up traffic to your website?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/UninvitedCompany_2

-- Matt

--- NSK <nsk2 at wikinerds.org> wrote:

> Please someone explain to this sysop that articles copied from external GFDL
> wikis must contain proper attribution. We don't want our articles to appear
> in Wikipedia without attribution of the source. If you don't want to include
> the attribution link, please delete articles copied from Wikinerds.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Matt_Crypto
Blog: http://cipher-text.blogspot.com

___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
Dan Grey wrote:
> Probably a waste of time - any PR company that fancies trying their
> luck isn't going to consult past arbcom cases, and won't care if they
> get blocked anyway.

They probably will care if I mock them mercilessly in the press, though.

Well, some of them will.  Big companies would be quite unhappy to end up
looking so annoying.  But very small companies might be willing to get
negative press; at least it is attention.

--Jimbo


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: algebra.com imageleeching

body:
On 15/08/05, Walter Vermeir <walter at wikipedia.be> wrote:
> Is there a good reason to allow direct acces by url to the images? For
> the Wikipedia-projects we use the [[image:foobar.png]].

Because that's how the web works: an HTML page doesn't include images,
it simply refers to them; your browser then sends off requests for
each image and displays them at the appropriate point on the screen.
The only way of telling what page (if any) an image is being displayed
as part of is to look at the "referer"[sic] header, and even that's
not a 100% reliable indicator.

> Or use a direct url that is only works for a short time?

An intriguing idea, but since pages are cached, they wouldn't
necessarily have "up to date" image URLs in them. Also, unless you had
some kind of system to randomly generate and store URL tokens on the
server (which would potentially be worse resource-wise than the odd
unblocked leecher) determined leechers would simply reverse-engineer
the naming scheme and carry on regardless. I may be wrong, but I think
this would be more trouble than it was worth.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 15/08/05, Sean Barrett <sean at epoptic.org> wrote:
> If it could be shown to the satisfaction of the ArbComm that it was an
> organized campaign, I would be in favor of a month-long block on the
> entire address space of the organizers, ''pour encourager les autres''.
>   We are not a blank billboard, and their graffiti is not welcome.

Probably a waste of time - any PR company that fancies trying their
luck isn't going to consult past arbcom cases, and won't care if they
get blocked anyway.

Dan


from_name: Theresa Knott

subject: [WikiEN-l] Welcoming Peter C. Wayner and...

body:
On 8/15/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Laura Scudder wrote:
> > Except then it wouldn't get edited mercilessly by other Wikipedians.
> > The students will probably work a bit harder if they know it's going
> > into the main article namespace where it will be subjected to many
> > eyes and editors than if it's in their user namespace.
> >
> > Besides, we don't make other newbies' first articles go up for approval.
> >
>
> *WARNING: BRAIN IS CURRENTLY OFF. ATTEMPTS TO COMMUNICATE MAY BE
> DANGEROUS. CONTINUE [Y/N]?* y
>
> Maybe we should... just as page moving is disabled until you have a
> certain number of edits, so should new page creation. It would probably
> save VFD a whole lot of trouble.

No!No!No! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Totally daft idea!

The first edit I ever made was creation of a new page. And it was a
crappy stub. And had I not been allowed to make it I may never have
become hooked.

Theresa

>
> - --
> Alphax                      |   /"\
> Encrypted Email Preferred   |   \ /     ASCII Ribbon Campaign
> OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613  |    X   Against HTML email & vCards
> http://tinyurl.com/cc9up    |   / \
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFDALd0/RxM5Ph0xhMRAw9gAJ9ngg6LBbcXsZOvmwHo66bLQMIz9gCeMu6f
> 42nBZoL9OX2zR5NtvJHO1g4=
> =mjpl
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Andrew Gray

body:
On 15/08/05, Daniel P. B. Smith <dpbsmith at verizon.net> wrote:

> But. Maybe ten per cent of these articles were puff pieces on
> subtrivial aspects of Dartmouth student life, talking about some
> student activity in language that would have been appropriate to a
> recruiting brochure, traditional games played in certain living
> units, and so forth. The sudden arrival of a few dozen pieces of
> Dartmouthcruft brought out the very worst in the Wikipedian community.

Assuming good faith, all these Dartmouth students will want to write a
_useful_ article for their course credit. So, let's help them do so.

Would it be worth putting together a quick welcoming page, targeted at
these students (and anyone else coming along later on the same sort of
project, since there will be more), which points out resources like
[[Wikipedia:Requested articles]], [[Wikipedia:Requested article
translations]] (hey, *I'd* offer bonus credit for a translation),
[[Wikipedia:Most wanted articles]] &c, with some notes on the kind of
thing we'd really like and the kind of thing we'd discourage?

This'd also serve as an opportunity to make links like the Help Desk
clear, mention the talk pages of some users willing to assist, &c
&c... thoughts?

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Fastfission

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 8/15/05, Ben Yates <bluephonic at gmail.com> wrote:
> How well can wikipedia protect itself against this unfamiliar sort of
> systemic bias?

Not well, but it doesn't matter much. If it is information about
something somebody cares or knows about, interested people will see it
and verify it or change it and so forth. If it is not something
someone cares about, then it hardly matters, except when people gloat
about how they "gamed Wikipedia" by doing something nobody noticed.

It's not worth getting any more flustered about that sort of thing
than it is the occasional journalist or whomever who adds deliberate
misinformation to a page about some obscure Tsar and then says, "Ha,
Wikipedia couldn't demarcate truth and fiction for a whole week!" The
people who think that every page of Wikipedia will be accurate 100% of
the time and that 100% of all errors (deliberate or accidental) will
be caught are the same people who probably 1. don't understand the
point of Wikipedia anyway, 2. wouldn't like that point even if they
understood it.

In reality, if Wikipedia proves useful and reliable enough for most
people, it will be used and enjoyed. Such has been demonstrated
adequately so far and will continue to be in the future. If a few
people want to misuse Wikipedia, so be it. Not even the hard sciences
can protect against deliberate fraud.

FF


from_name: Daniel P. B. Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: I can plant viral marketing in the vasty Wikipedia...

body:
>> Still, someone wrote into boingboing with the following:
>>
>> "I can't say who I am, but I do work at a company that uses Wikipedia
>> as a key part of online marketing strategies. That includes planting
>> of viral information in entries, modification of entries to point to
>> new promotional sites or "leaks" embedded in entries to test
>> diffusion
>> of information. Wikipedia is just a more transparent version of
>> Myspace as far as some companies are concerned. We love it (evil
>> laugh).

Let's not get our knickers in a twist over this.

As a wise person once told me, "Don't ever think that an ad agency's
business is to sell the product to the consumer. An ad agency's
business is to sell the AD to the CLIENT."

That company probably lists viral marketing via Wikipedia as one of
their unique services. And charges for it. Sure, they can plant viral
information in Wikipedia. But how long does it stay there? And does
it have any effect in marketing products? Or is it just more
"subliminal advertising?"

They say their company "uses Wikipedia." They do not say whether the
results are effective.

"I can call spirits from the vasty deep."

"Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?"

"I can plan viral marketing in the vasty Wikipedia..." "Why, so can
I, or so can anyone..."

--
Daniel P. B. Smith, dpbsmith at verizon.net
"Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print!
Sample chapter at http://world.std.com/~dpbsmith/messy.html
Buy it at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1403314063/


subject: [Wikitech-l] algebra.com imageleeching

body:
On 15/08/05, James A. Bowery <jabowery at laboratoryofthestates.com> wrote:
> Finlay McWalter wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >      Algebra.com (which also goes by the name cooldictionary.com)
> > appears to be leeching images directly from the wikimedia upload server.
>
> What is the accepted means for copying the images from wikipedia?  My
> impression was there was some sort of copyright problem due to the fact
> that, unlike the text content, the image content of Wikipedia is not,
> _reliably_ under one of the free licenses such as the GFDL.

Image dumps are available from http://download.wikimedia.org/images/
but are to be used "at your own risk" - as explained in
http://download.wikimedia.org/images/README_ABOUT_COPYRIGHT.txt

Using the appropriate database dumps you could probably select out a
reasonable subset using the template-and-category based labelling
system - i.e. delete those with no such tags, those marked as "fair
use", and any other licenses likely to be incompatible with your
mirror.  Obviously, a better system, where this meta-information was
built into the dumps, or available neatly standalone, would be nice,
but not easy.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Andrew

subject: [Wikitech-l] widgEditor and WYSIWYG

body:
Hi,

I am attempting, as an experiment for work, to get Mediawiki up and running
using widgEditor (http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/01/27/)
as a WYSIWYG interface.  As I work in a very un-geek office trying to get people
to learn Wiki mark-up would be much to much to ask (many have difficulty turning
the computers on - seriously).  However, my co-workers have expressed a real
interest in using a Wiki for collaboration.  Therefore the WYSIWYG interface.

So far so good, everything works as it should (with a few tweaks here and
there).  However, I am stuck attempting to get the TOC and section editing
working.  As widgEditor sends all the code as raw HTML I need to get mediawiki
to treat hN's as it would '=' for section headings.  Looking high and low I
cannot find the right place to make the changes.  Any help would be appreciated.

P.S. I have also noticed that while the HTML is stored in the database just fine
the text that is displayed have spaces before the closing bracket.  I would like
to clean this up - however I cannot find where this extra space is coming from.
 Cheers

Andrew.


from_name: Peta Holmes

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Wikipedia for class projects

body:
A welcome page or a portal would probably be a good
idea if someone was willing to set one up for classes
using Wikipedia. The biggest problem I've seen with
class projects is the mass insertion of copyrighted
material, which is bad for us and bad for them since
you'd expect college students to understand the
ramifications of plagiarism. So any welcome page
should explicitly spell out the copyright issue. Also
I think we should recommend that they contribute as
registered users so that any copyright issues can be
attributed to one user, and if they are getting credit
for their contributions they can be penalised for
plagiarism.

--Peta

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


list: foundation-l

from_name: Tobias Denninger

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Research access to logs

body:
Hello..

..I think it could be useful to compute the probability an article B is read on
condition that another article A is read whithin a short timeframe before from a
specific reader. Based on this probabilities suggestions could be made to the
reader of a specific article which articles could be also interesting (maybe a
kind of collaborative filtering or Amazon's "Customers who bought this book also
bought.."). Subscribed user could offered personalized recommendations based on
the computation how probable it is that an article is of interest to that
specific user who read those articles. I'd be interested in implementing that
idea, so as a first step I'd be interested in a sample log file with a size of
some Megabyte.

Tobias


list: wikimedia-l


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Interlingua Wikipedia logo

body:
Mba'?ichapa Ensjo?

The Interlingua logo was created a long time ago, but was never made
the logo of ia.wiki.

Cheers,
Mark

On 15/08/05, Emerson Jos? Silveira da Costa <ensjo at nautilus.com.br> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> On the Interlingua Wikipedia has the default logotype that reads "The
> Free Encyclopedia", in English.
>
> Could someone furnish another one with the proper writing "Le
> Encyclopedia Libere"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ensjo.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


subject: [Wikipedia-l] Poll so far

body:
Hi all,

The current results of the poll on Sinitic linguistic policy at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_Sinitic_linguistic_policy
:

25 support - 6 oppose (overall)

Some people expressed support or lack thereof for other
Sinitic-language Wikipedias, mostly Wu, Hakka, and Classical Chinese.

The voting instructions say that if you only want to support one of
them, but not the others, you should note it with your vote.

I don't know if people followed these instructions exactly, but if they did:

One person explicitly supported Cantonese and Wu but didn't support
Hakka, making the balance for Hakka:

24 support - 7 oppose.

One person who voted in the "oppose" section, noted that although they
are opposed to Wikipedias in Cantonese, Wu, and Hakka, they support a
Wikipedia in Classical Chinese.

I would like to close with a quote from that page from Jogloran, which
to me indicates the true nessecity for these Wikipedias:

"And one more thing. My mother tongue is Cantonese, not Mandarin, not
'Chinese', but specifically Cantonese. When I read through the sample
articles in Cantonese linked above, I was struck by how much clearer
it was to my mind. When I read a text written in standard language, it
takes a little longer for the exact meaning to become apparent."

Cheers
Mark


subject: [Wikitech-l] algebra.com imageleeching

body:
On 15/08/05, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am of the opinion that all material that is indicated to be
> problematic because it cannot be used on a comercial mirror should be
> removed.

This is, I believe, a highly contentious issue, and a matter to be
decided by individual communities, rather than a technical mailing
list. Without going into detail, therefore, I will just point out that
the conundrum is between the ideal of a completely free encyclopedia,
and the practicalities of an actual useable one.

Personally, I'm all in favour of preferring a GFDL-compatible image
over a non-compatible one - or even preferring any freer image of
similar quality over any existing one - but would be circumspect about
preferring no image at all over a legal but non-GFDL-compatible one.
But like I say, this is entirely the wrong forum for that debate.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Haukur Þorgeirsson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: A specific welcoming page for the Dartmouth class?

body:
> I have a draft up at [[Wikipedia:School and university projects -
> instructions for students]]. Alterations appreciated, and anyone else
> willing to help please stick your name down...

I think the idea is good, it's just that...
Well. The tasks proposed are a bit dreary.
Personally I have literally never created
an article because it was requested. I prefer
to write about things I know about, or at least
know the context for, and the requested articles
never seem to be in my field of knowledge. My
guess is that I'm not unique in this respect.
(I have, though, participated in the Missing
Articles project, writing on Scandinavian topics.)

The standard welcoming messages with the open
tasks also seem rather unattractive to me.
Very few people join Wikipedia because they
want to fix syntax or clean up bad prose on
subjects they don't care about. This comes
later when people mature as Wikipedians.

Regards,
Haukur


from_name: Sam Korn

subject: [WikiEN-l] Sphaera Mundi

body:
The GFDL requires that authors are credited, not the original location.

You uploaded the file to WP.  It had only one author on Wikinerds.
All the authors are credited.  Therefore the link was not required.

Sam

On 8/14/05, NSK <nsk2 at wikinerds.org> wrote:
> On 1 August 2005 I decided to contribute an article from my wiki
> http://www.jnanabase.org in Wikipedia. My wiki is GFDL, just like Wikipedia.
>
> I proceeded and copied the text from my wiki's article and I pasted it to a
> new Wikipedia article [[Sphaera Mundi]]:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphaera_Mundi
>
> Because the article was written in my wiki (which has 1834 pages), I added a
> standard attribution notice to cite the source, with a link back to my wiki's
> original article, as per required by GFDL and Wikipedia's policy:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
>
> On 3 August 2005 another Wikipedia user edited the article and added
> categories. On 9 August 2005 a different user cleaned it up and disambiguated
> some links.
>
> On 12 August 2005, [[User:UninvitedCompany]], who is a sysop, removed the
> attribution notice.
>
> On 14 August 2005, [[User:Joe Kress]] (I don't know that user) re-added the
> attribution notice, as Wikipedia's policy requires:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_sources
>
> 2 hours later UninvitedCompany removed the notice again. 3 hours later I added
> again the notice.
>
> We had some discussion with UninvitedCompany and he says the source of
> [[Sphaera Mundi]]'s shouldn't be included in the article because it's an
> "unreliable source" and because it's "spam", although my wiki appears in the
> 3rd position in a Google search for "sphaera mundi" and most other pages of
> my website have a PageRank of 6, while the site has been slashdotted 4 times:
> http://portal.wikinerds.org/taxonomy/term/49
>
> According to the GFDL licence and copyright laws, proper attribution must be
> provided. Citing where an article was copied from is not spam.
>
> In a similar incident, I also copied an article from my wiki to a new
> Wikipedia article with title [[Erhard Ratdolt]], with an attribution notice.
> When UninvitedCompany removed the attribution notice, another sysop deleted
> the article saying "copyvio of Wikinerds. Deleting." - and this shows that an
> article copied from an external GFDL source into Wikipedia without proper
> attribution is copyright violation and a violation of the GFDL licence.
>
> If the notice is deleted again from [[Sphaera Mundi]] (or any other article
> from my wiki without proper attribution), I will request its deletion.
>
> This sysop also removed other attribution notices and various other edits I
> have made, so I believe he is bullying me. I have requested mediation and I
> have collected all evidence at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Www.wikinerds.org/Bullying
>
> Please someone explain to this sysop that articles copied from external GFDL
> wikis must contain proper attribution. We don't want our articles to appear
> in Wikipedia without attribution of the source. If you don't want to include
> the attribution link, please delete articles copied from Wikinerds.
>
> --
> Owner of http://www.wikinerds.org/
> Owner of http://www.jnanabase.org/
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [Wikitech-l] Google and Special:Recentchanges

body:
On 15/08/05, Juliano Ravasi Ferraz <ml at juliano.info> wrote:

> The page itself has <meta name="robots" content="noindex,follow">, and
> the link itself doesn't have a rel="nofollow" attribute, meaning that
> google is being instructed to follow those links.
>
> Each time the link is followed, a new page is generated with a different
> &from=... parameter, and many new different links for last 50, 100, 250
> and 500 changes, the last 1, 3, 7, 14 and 30 days, rss and atom feeds,
> which are all followed also.
>
> Is there a quick fix for this?

Aha, there is indeed - if I understand it correctly,
http://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt disallows this by telling
[friendly] spiders not to look at "/w/", where the actual scripts are,
but letting them into "/wiki/" where the canonical rewritten URLs
live.

Thus, a vanilla view of Special:Recentchanges will be spidered at
"/wiki/Special:Recentchanges", but the alternate views are all of the
form "/w/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&..." and will be
ignored.

> On a side note, what about making all "diff" links on
> Special:Recentchanges and Special:Contributions also have a
> rel="nofollow" attribute?

IIRC rel="nofollow" is badly named - it doesn't stop anything from
following the link, only from using it to calculate page rankings.
Unless I'm wrong about that, it's irrelevant for the current
discussion.

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wikitech-l] algebra.com imageleeching

body:
Rowan Collins wrote:

>On 15/08/05, James A. Bowery <jabowery at laboratoryofthestates.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Finlay McWalter wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Folks,
>>>     Algebra.com (which also goes by the name cooldictionary.com)
>>>appears to be leeching images directly from the wikimedia upload server.
>>>
>>>
>>What is the accepted means for copying the images from wikipedia?  My
>>impression was there was some sort of copyright problem due to the fact
>>that, unlike the text content, the image content of Wikipedia is not,
>>_reliably_ under one of the free licenses such as the GFDL.
>>
>>
>
>Image dumps are available from http://download.wikimedia.org/images/
>but are to be used "at your own risk" - as explained in
>http://download.wikimedia.org/images/README_ABOUT_COPYRIGHT.txt
>
>Using the appropriate database dumps you could probably select out a
>reasonable subset using the template-and-category based labelling
>system - i.e. delete those with no such tags, those marked as "fair
>use", and any other licenses likely to be incompatible with your
>mirror.  Obviously, a better system, where this meta-information was
>built into the dumps, or available neatly standalone, would be nice,
>but not easy.
>
Hoi
When we publish our content, we specify a license that should be valid
for the use of our content. We have chosen GFDL and this implicitly
means that the provisions of the GFDL aply to the use of our content by
mirors as well. When we have content that is not compatible with the
GFDL, we should delete this content. It is not reasonable to expect of a
mirror to scrutinize every picture in order to find out if its license
is compatible with what we say our license is. In this I think that
Commons is doing well by ensuring that its conten is generally usable
within what we aim to do given our license.

I am of the opinion that all material that is indicated to be
problematic because it cannot be used on a comercial mirror should be
removed.

Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Google Techtalk

body:
I would like to say something, because

* first the issue has been discussed at the board meeting yesterday and
outcome will be explained in a couple of days, so I do not think it
necessary that people go on discussing it

* second because I think that I will take a wikibreak beginning tomorrow
  for an unknown time (probably a week or so, possibly longer). I will
drop by from time to time for a short time, but I do not think the level
of micromanagement is such that it will be a problem :-)

Essentially, what I would like to say is

I listened carefully to the people saying we were sticking too much with
micromanagement.
I do not fully agree with this, as I feel that adding more officers is
precisely going in the sense of decreasing as much as we can
micromanagement. Soon, I hope, we'll add a chapter coordinator, and I
hope even more responsabilities can be taken by officers themselves,
rather than by the board. For now, I feel that we are not being heavy on
them, but if we are, it is to the officers themselves, collectively or
individually, to tell us we are.
I try myself to be light (I may fail though), for example, yesterday we
approved the budget set up by Maveric after small modifications, decided
of the amount of funds to raise... and the issue is now entirely in the
hand of Maveric. As far as I am concerned, if he asks my help, I will
try to give him, but otherwise, it is his business, to organise with
whoever he wants, the way he wants. I know he will do it well, so why
would I be on his back ? And if we make only 180 instead of 200, we'll
find another way to fill up the hole.
Naturally, there are some areas we like to take care... so quite
naturally, we appreciate to get involved. That does not necessary mean
we "micromanage" officers, but rather that we like to work in a certain
area with them, just as I appreciate to do regular editing on the
projects. Similarly, what Jimbo really likes doing is setting up deals,
doing business development. He is good at it, so it makes sense he does
it. Does that mean that another also willing to do it is "micromanaged"
? I do not think so. There is a big difference between "micromanagement"
and "collaboration".

So, in short, while I am ready to hear more opinions about this comment
on micromanagement, I must say that currently, it is not a comment I
recognise as frankly valid. But well...

The second point is this one. While I recognise as valid the fact that
Erik and I are very often in disagreement and accept that this is a bit
problematic in a team, I totally, firmly and very strongly reject the
idea that the whole event is ONLY a conflict between Erik and I.

I have always been a person who refuses manipulation and who speak
frankly about problems. I refuse to be a coward. I refuse to be a
carpet. When there is a problem, I try to find a way to fix it. If it
does not improve, I refuse to put my head in the sand and to wait that
someone else has the courage to fix the issue for me. This is right what
I tried to do.
When I decided to run for the board, it was by NO mean with the intend
of being a puppet for Jimbo, and by no mean either to hide behind him
for any controversial issue. When I disagree with Jimbo or thinks he is
doing wrong, I tell him. When I think an officer is doing wrong, I tell
him. When I hear many people complaining about an officer and nothing is
happening, I do not take a refill of ice-cream. At the risk of appearing
to be a real bitch (which I clearly am now for some people), I prefer to
say it, even if I know the person I am talking about is the most
eloquent on Wikipedia and I know I will be damaged myself.
If some of you want to believe this is ONLY a conflict of person, it is
fine. I think it is still worth to do it for those who know it is not
only or simply a conflict of person. And worth saying things openly for
the sake of the organisation, rather than letting people falsely believe
we are living in barbie's pink paradise. We are not.

Aside from this, why am I taking a break ?

First because I have plenty of people at home.
Second because though I might appear an unreasonable bitch, I have
feelings and feel sad of the whole situation
Third because I have some tension problems, and obgyn recommand rest and
quiet for safety. I am far from it right now :-)

I renew my confidence in Jimbo and Angela as well as confidence and
appreciation in those currently taking care of Foundation issues.

Anthere


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Google Techtalk


from_name: Robert Scott Horning

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikiversity Re-launch

body:
Due to a major misunderstanding about the whole issue about the role of
Wikiversity on Wikibooks, I am doing a "Re-launch" of Wikiversity as an
ordinary new Wikimedia "sister project".  I already added Wikiversity to
the new project proposal page:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_projects#Wikiversity

I think that the initial scope of Wikiversity can and should be toned
down to something realistic that can be accomplished with the current
set of tools available with MediaWiki software.  Waiting a year or two
until "appropriate changes" to MediaWiki software are done is IMHO
totally unacceptable.  I am proposing the following time table for this
project:

Now to 15 Sept 2005:
Discussion for modifying the scope of this project (done on meta and not
Wikibooks) will take place over the next month.  *BE BOLD* and change
the goals to something that can happen realistically.  I certainly will
be making changes/proposing new goals over this next month.

15 Sept 2005 to 1 Nov 2005:
Formal voting to accept/reject this project, as per
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_project_policy and general policies
adopted after Wikinews.  The English version of the voting page has
already been written, but translations need to be done to other
languages before voting begins.  Hopefully the german version can get
written quickly as it already has its own wiki run under the Wikimedia
server farm and semi-official status as it is.

1 Nov 2005 to 15 Nov 2005:
Formal submittal to the Foundation Board for acceptance/denial/rework of
proposal.  This has been kicking around long enough that hopefully there
are enough opinions already about the value of this project.

15 Nov 2005 to 1 Jan 2006:
If approved, a transwiki to en.wikiversity.org from en.wikibooks will
begin.  This will be a complicated process, and there is going to be
some arguing about what parts need to stay on Wikibooks and what parts
need to be moved.  This may get ugly simply because the distinction
really hasn't been in place so far.  Some discussion about this is more
than likely going to take place on Wikibooks, as it already has with
with the VfD discussion currently taking place.  This e-mail is going to
be noted in that VfD.

2 Jan 2006 to 30 Jan 2006:
(If approved) Cleanup of Wikibooks to remove links/redirects/other left
overs from Wikiversity.  The current group of admins/users on Wikibooks
can easily handle this issue.

----

If you think this sort of discussion is out of order, and that no new
Wikimedia projects can or should be adopted for the next year or two,
please state so **boldly** on this mailing list, specifically why, and
what the fate of new projects like this ought to be.  This is a new
project proposal that has clearly been done on a stealth tactic and not
submitted through normal channels.  I am trying to change that approach,
but I also know that significant resistance has been mentioned from
earlier discussions about new project proposals.

What the fate of Wikiversity ought to be if it fails to become a
Wikimedia sister project is up to further discussion, but I don't think
it ought to stay on Wikibooks.  In that vein the VfD discussion on
Wikibooks is totally in order.  As can be seen, at least from my
viewpoint I am not trying to make a rash decision to kill Wikiversity
from Wikibooks, and I think the above time table can be acceptable from
most parties involved.

--
Robert Scott Horning


list: textbook-l

subject: [Textbook-l] Wikiversity Re-launch


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikiversity Re-launch


subject: [Foundation-l] Take care

body:
Hoi,
Anthere I have said it and I say it again. You are a person that
inspired me immensly. It is my apreciation for who you are and what you
have done that made me not stand for a position on the board. Please
take good care of yourself because if you do not, we cannot benefit from
your presence and your joie de vivre.

It is unfortunate that there is this public spat. But in one way it is
better to have it in the open than to have an even more vicious fight
behind the scenes. I do very much apreciate that it hurts. I do because
I know.

Take care and know that I apreciate you / love you a lot :)

Groetjes,
    Gerard


subject: [Foundation-l] Take care


body:
On 15/08/05, Daniel P. B. Smith <dpbsmith at verizon.net> wrote:

> > This'd also serve as an opportunity to make links like the Help Desk
> > clear, mention the talk pages of some users willing to assist, &c
> > &c... thoughts?
>
> I think that is a most bodaciously doubleplusgood idea.
>
> Particularly the idea of being positive and suggesting
> things we WANT.
>
> As this is the last day of my vacation I will have less
> time to work on Wikipedia so maybe you could...
> take the initiative on this? I'd be glad to help out,
> and by all means put me on the list of users willing to assist
> (my Wikipedia username is, you'll never guess this, dpbsmith).

I have a draft up at [[Wikipedia:School and university projects -
instructions for students]]. Alterations appreciated, and anyone else
willing to help please stick your name down...

It currently only really deals with creating new articles, but as
that's the topic currently being discussed... :-)

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Dori

subject:
[Foundation-l] Wikimania 2006 - host city contest to open on
	September 1st 2005

body:
If I may suggest, I would say one requirement should be that it be
held on a different continent each year.


body:
On 15/08/05, Kat Walsh <mindspillage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I like this; picking an appropriate topic will probably be the hardest
> part. Actually,  [[Wikipedia:School and university projects]] has most
> of these links already: perhaps a /studentguide subpage or something
> as a welcome page directed at students participating in these
> projects?

It's now up at [[Wikipedia:School and university projects -
instructions for students]] - comments or alterations welcome.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Including othter articles by name -> titles

body:
Heinz wrote:
> Thanks Angela, that was a very good hint.
> But when including a page that way, the page title does not get included.
> I have either to include the =title= whithin the inluded page again, which
> does'nt look nice there or to set the title manually on the page which
> include subpages.
> Are there allready some working things to get a page included and the page
> title displayed too?

No, that's not supported, nor is it an intended feature.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikitech-l] Caching Problem?

body:
topi wrote:
> When including a page by {{:page_B}}into page_A page_A does not get updated
> after editing page_B. I think this is due to cached pages. Is that rigth?
> And  how can i get page_A get updated without making a minor edit on that
> page?

Currently only templates are tracked properly for automatic updates of
including pages. Including non-template pages is a bit of a hack and
you'll find fun little issues like that.

Use ?action=purge to update individual pages.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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subject: [Wikitech-l] widgEditor and WYSIWYG

body:
Andrew wrote:
> So far so good, everything works as it should (with a few tweaks here and
> there).  However, I am stuck attempting to get the TOC and section editing
> working.  As widgEditor sends all the code as raw HTML I need to get mediawiki
> to treat hN's as it would '=' for section headings.  Looking high and low I
> cannot find the right place to make the changes.  Any help would be appreciated.

IIRC this is already done in 1.5.

> P.S. I have also noticed that while the HTML is stored in the database just fine
> the text that is displayed have spaces before the closing bracket.  I would like
> to clean this up - however I cannot find where this extra space is coming from.

That's coming from the crappy HTML output in 1.4. Upgrade to 1.5.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Phroziac

body:
I did!

On 8/15/05, Haukur ?orgeirsson <haukurth at hi.is> wrote:
> > I have a draft up at [[Wikipedia:School and university projects -
> > instructions for students]]. Alterations appreciated, and anyone else
> > willing to help please stick your name down...
>
> I think the idea is good, it's just that...
> Well. The tasks proposed are a bit dreary.
> Personally I have literally never created
> an article because it was requested. I prefer
> to write about things I know about, or at least
> know the context for, and the requested articles
> never seem to be in my field of knowledge. My
> guess is that I'm not unique in this respect.
> (I have, though, participated in the Missing
> Articles project, writing on Scandinavian topics.)
>
> The standard welcoming messages with the open
> tasks also seem rather unattractive to me.
> Very few people join Wikipedia because they
> want to fix syntax or clean up bad prose on
> subjects they don't care about. This comes
> later when people mature as Wikipedians.
>
> Regards,
> Haukur
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Michael Turley

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 8/15/05, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> Dan Grey wrote:
> > Probably a waste of time - any PR company that fancies trying their
> > luck isn't going to consult past arbcom cases, and won't care if they
> > get blocked anyway.
>
> They probably will care if I mock them mercilessly in the press, though.
>
> Well, some of them will.  Big companies would be quite unhappy to end up
> looking so annoying.  But very small companies might be willing to get
> negative press; at least it is attention.
>
> --Jimbo

Even better: savage their *clients* for choosing such a daft PR firm,
where appropriate.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused


from_name: David Gerard

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Blocks on the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabian
	proxies

body:
The UAE and SA each run the whole country's internet access through
small proxy subnets. However, the proxies appear to be open, at least
a bit, in places. Do we risk blocking the whole damn countries?

Is it worth excluding them from IP blocks when a name is blocked? (Is
this another instance of bug 550?)

- d.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>
Date: Aug 15, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Wikipedia e-mail
To: -----

I think what happened was that I blocked someone else (Boothy443 I
think) who had been using the IP, and so the IP was blocked as well
for a while. If it's clear now then good!

But if the Emirates proxy is blocked again, please do let the blocking
admin know, with the listed blocked name - that's how the admin can
work out which block it is and jnblock it.

- d.

On 8/15/05, ----- wrote:
> yes, but now its unblocked, so i cant remember.
>
> this is -----, this is just my backup mailbox cos i cant
> access my main one at the moment.
>
> On 8/15/05, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can't actually find a block on that IP or range. Did the message say
> > which username was blocked?
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/15/05, ----- wrote:
> > >
> > > "Your IP address is 213.42.2.11. Please include this address, along with your username, in any queries you make"
> > >
> > > this IP address that you have blocked is the proxy that allows access for an entire country, the united arab emirates, by blocking this, thousands will be effected
> > >
> > >
> >
>


subject:
[Wikitech-l] Blocks on the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabian
	proxies


from_name: Emerson José Silveira da Costa

body:
Hi all.

On the Interlingua Wikipedia has the default logotype that reads "The
Free Encyclopedia", in English.

Could someone furnish another one with the proper writing "Le
Encyclopedia Libere"?

Thanks,

Ensjo.


from_name: Skyring

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23

body:
On 8/15/05, Arkady Rose <arkady at arkady.org.uk> wrote:
> Skyring wrote:
> >On 8/8/05, Arkady Rose <arkady at arkady.org.uk> wrote:
> >>info at antandsons.com wrote:
> >>>Who can I contact to see if I can add links/content to Wikipedia?
> >>>
> >>You don't. See that little "edit this page" link? You just dive right on in.
> >
> >I can't get it to work! I think there's something wrong with the site!
> >
> Naughty Skyring! No biscuit!!  :-P

Heh. I thought it was pretty funny.

--
Pete, on the graveyard humour shift


from_name: Andrew Lih

body:
On 8/15/05, Dori <slowpoke at gmail.com> wrote:
> If I may suggest, I would say one requirement should be that it be
> held on a different continent each year.

We'd run out of continents quickly, and I'm not just talking about the
seventh year. :)

It would be desirable to diversify to other continents if possible,
there seems to be no good reason to restrict it so early in the game.
There was talk towards the end of WM'05 that perhaps Asia
(China/Singapore/Japan) or North America (Canada) would be great
candidates. But Dutch and French folks have much more critical mass of
organization/staffing, that we should not rule them out entirely.

Much of the problem is that the German folks did such an amazing
job,that it's such a hard act to follow with anything but the largest
Wikipedia communities.

-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)


from_name: Rowan Collins

subject: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

body:
Hi,
Earlier this evening, I ended up posting the same message three times
to mediawiki-l, having received the following bounce notice on all
three attempts, which I took to mean it hadn't reached the list.
Looking at the archives[1], it seems that all three copies got
through. Anybody have any ideas what actually happened, and why?

[1] http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2005-August/thread.html#6321

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at zwinger.wikimedia.org>
Date: 15-Aug-2005 21:26
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: rowan.collins at gmail.com

This is the Postfix program at host zwinger.wikimedia.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

                        The Postfix program

<quagga at zwinger.wikimedia.org>: cannot access mailbox /var/mail/quagga for user
    quagga. error writing message: File too large

Final-Recipient: rfc822; quagga at zwinger.wikimedia.org
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; cannot access mailbox /var/mail/quagga for user
    quagga. error writing message: File too large


from_name: Alphax

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Ben Yates wrote:
> Still, someone wrote into boingboing with the following:
>
> "I can't say who I am, but I do work at a company that uses Wikipedia
> as a key part of online marketing strategies. That includes planting
> of viral information in entries, modification of entries to point to
> new promotional sites or "leaks" embedded in entries to test diffusion
> of information. Wikipedia is just a more transparent version of
> Myspace as far as some companies are concerned. We love it (evil
> laugh).
>
> On the other side, I love it from an academia/sociological standpoint,
> and I don't necessarily have a problem with it used as a viral
> marketing tool. After all, marketing is a form of information, with
> just a different end point in mind (consuming rather than learning)."
>
> How well can wikipedia protect itself against this unfamiliar sort of
> systemic bias?

Quite easily...

Take off every Zig!
You know what you doing.
Move Zig.
For great justice.

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
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from_name: Jack Lynch

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: No answer, great question

body:
I have long felt that the wikipedia needs a better division of labour.
For example, users who contribute bulk content tend to have trouble
with NPOV. Users who edit (making redirects and improving wording and
seeking NPOV) tend to get less credit for the finished product. And
people who focus on policy pages and the wikipedia namespace tend to
become admins more than those who do not. I find the
anon/user/admin/bureaucrat/developer distinction an unfortunate one.
Too often people are punished rather than praised for their efforts by
a system that rewards cliqiness and attempts to modify behaviour with
punitive and legalistic process and punishments. We need a way to
maximise strengths, minimize weaknesses, and REWARD good behaviour.

Jack (Sam Spade)


body:
On 8/15/05, Daniel P. B. Smith <dpbsmith at verizon.net> wrote:

> A common characteristic of that age is a total inability to let
> things go and not sweat the small stuff. Every tiny rejection is
> fought tooth and nail, not for personal reasons of course, but
> because of The Principle Of The Thing.
>
> I am sure that if I personally were fourteen years old right now I
> would a) be contributing to Wikipedia and b) would be one of those
> "brittle" and problematic users.

You know, this is pretty much the feeling I got when I had my first
experience of Wikiconflict. The other guy came across as an
opinionated teenager.

I was amused to find that he'd had the same perception of me.

--
Pete, middle-aged in Canberra


body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Laura Scudder wrote:
> Except then it wouldn't get edited mercilessly by other Wikipedians.
> The students will probably work a bit harder if they know it's going
> into the main article namespace where it will be subjected to many
> eyes and editors than if it's in their user namespace.
>
> Besides, we don't make other newbies' first articles go up for approval.
>

*WARNING: BRAIN IS CURRENTLY OFF. ATTEMPTS TO COMMUNICATE MAY BE
DANGEROUS. CONTINUE [Y/N]?* y

Maybe we should... just as page moving is disabled until you have a
certain number of edits, so should new page creation. It would probably
save VFD a whole lot of trouble.

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
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from_name: Mohsen Basirat

subject: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia XML Export

body:
hi all
i see the XML export of Wikipedia content
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/
that you get the content in xml format
for example for 'perl' you have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/perl
but where i can found something about it to using
it better any doc, how-to or something else would be
useful
regards
mohsen

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Theresa Knott wrote:
> On 8/15/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>>Besides, we don't make other newbies' first articles go up for approval.
>>>
>>
>>*WARNING: BRAIN IS CURRENTLY OFF. ATTEMPTS TO COMMUNICATE MAY BE
>>DANGEROUS. CONTINUE [Y/N]?* y
>>
>>Maybe we should... just as page moving is disabled until you have a
>>certain number of edits, so should new page creation. It would probably
>>save VFD a whole lot of trouble.
>
>
> No!No!No! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Totally daft idea!
>
> The first edit I ever made was creation of a new page. And it was a
> crappy stub. And had I not been allowed to make it I may never have
> become hooked.
>

See disclaimer :) But it would stop the amount of junk having to be
scraped out of VFD, yes?

- --
Alphax                      |   /"\
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from_name: Cormac Lawler

subject: [WikiEN-l] How to work better with brittle users?

body:
On 8/16/05, Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have also worked as a caretaker of the disabled, and I think the
> comments and advise by Michael Turley / User:Unfocused were especially
> useful and apt. Hopefully they get read by those who need them most...
> What would you think about posting them up somewhere on the wiki?
>
> Jack (Sam Spade)

Absolutely. But who is it addressed to, and how? ("If someone's
behaving in an immature fashion, then.."?) Personally, I think this
advice could help us all..

Cormac


from_name: Mark Williamson

subject: [Wikitech-l] Is there any translation to Basque started?

body:
Hi Aitor,

There is a translation at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageEu.php , although I don't think
it's for the currentversion.

It's also not on CVS.

I'm not sure which language file the Basque Wikipedia uses, but their
default interface is completely translated.

Mark

On 16/08/05, Aitor Lazkano <euskalbits at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I'm going to translate MediaWiki to Basque (the language of the Basque Country,
> also known as Euskara).
>
> I want to know if there is any similar project started, in order not
> to make it twice.
>
> Thank you very much,
> Aitor
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

subject: [Foundation-l] wikimania-planning

body:
Hi,

To everybody who is wondering why he's not on wikimania-planning
anymore: in the aftermath I cleaned up the list of subscribers. When we
start preparations for next wikimania, this list should be ready for the
organisation team.

For public discussion, exchange of infos about wikimania there is now a
mailing list at http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
to which I'd like everyone.

greetings,
elian


subject: [Foundation-l] wikimania-planning


body:
I have also worked as a caretaker of the disabled, and I think the
comments and advise by Michael Turley / User:Unfocused were especially
useful and apt. Hopefully they get read by those who need them most...
What would you think about posting them up somewhere on the wiki?

Jack (Sam Spade)


subject: [Wikitech-l] Re: Is there any translation to Basque started?

body:
Hi Ashar,

Please do not wipe them.

They are still very useful. Obviously, they're not up-to-date, but
some of them are for Wikipedias which aren't created, or don't have
sysops, or have translations which haven't been used yet.

Mark

On 16/08/05, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org> wrote:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> > Hi Aitor,
> >
> > There is a translation at
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageEu.php , although I don't think
> > it's for the currentversion.
>
> I am going to wipe the various Languages files available on meta. They
> are not up to date and we (developers) prefers to use the
> special:allmessages from wikipedia.
>
> The Eureska wikipedia got some messages translated:
>   http://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Allmessages
>
> > It's also not on CVS.
> >
> > I'm not sure which language file the Basque Wikipedia uses, but their
> > default interface is completely translated.
>
> Actually it uses the english language file. I will create a default
> language file, will probably not make it inherit from spanish or basque
> people might be angry :)
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
> IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

--
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES
QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM
POSSIT MATERIARI
ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE


from_name: Delphine Ménard

body:
Hi there,

since Wikimania 2006 is already the talk of the town, I guess we
really need to start and go ahead with planning.

Here is the agenda for the next steps.

In the light of what we have learned/experienced at Wikimania 2005, we
have set up a pre-requirement page at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Planning . Please only
add "real requirements" to that list, and keep all comments to the
talk page. Do not get "too" specific either, for details can be better
worked out in the long run.

This page will evolve to list the requirements for next year's event.
We will "freeze it" ie. make it an official requirement list on
September 1st, date at which we are opening the "city contest" to host
Wikimania next year.

The city contest will go on for a month and a half, and a shortlist of
three cities will be decided upon on October 15th. From then,
Shortlisted cities will have to answer the board/organisation
committee's specific questions within 2 weeks. Official selection for
the "winning" city will happen on November 1st 2005.

Please feel free to forward/translate this mail to other lists so as
to ensure broad participation of Wikimedia communities.

And do not hesitate to ask questions.

Best,

Delphine
--
~notafish


body:
I joined to correct the overwhelming POV I discovered on the [[anal
sex]] page, but thats just me...

Jack (Sam Spade)

On 8/16/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> I did!

> >
> > I think the idea is good, it's just that...
> > Well. The tasks proposed are a bit dreary.
> > Personally I have literally never created
> > an article because it was requested. I prefer
> > to write about things I know about, or at least
> > know the context for, and the requested articles
> > never seem to be in my field of knowledge. My
> > guess is that I'm not unique in this respect.
> > (I have, though, participated in the Missing
> > Articles project, writing on Scandinavian topics.)
> >
> > The standard welcoming messages with the open
> > tasks also seem rather unattractive to me.
> > Very few people join Wikipedia because they
> > want to fix syntax or clean up bad prose on
> > subjects they don't care about. This comes
> > later when people mature as Wikipedians.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Haukur
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
> --
> signature
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: TOR

subject: [Foundation-l] Polish Chapter founded

body:
Dear fellow Wikimedians,

I am happy to inform you, that "Stowarzyszenie Wikimedia Polska"
(Wikimedia Polska Association), the Polish Chapter of Wikimedia
Foundation, has been founded this sunday in Krakow, during a larger two
day event called "Wikimedia Polska 2005 Meetup". More than 25 founding
members signed the documents.

Five Wikimedians were pre-elected to the Board of Wikimedia Polska:
- ?ukasz Garczewski (pl:User:TOR), as president;
- Piotr Cywi?ski (pl:User:Wulfstan), as vice-president;
- Tomasz Ganicz (pl:User:Polimerek), as tresurer;
- Dariusz Siedlecki (pl:User:Datrio), as scretary;
- Jadwiga Andrychowska-Biegacz (pl:User:Jadwiga), as board member.

We still have to get the documents to court and take care of all the
formalities, but we can already see new possibilites opening up before us.

Please visit http://pl.wikimedia.org/ for more information and the
latest news on the Polish Chapter if you want to keep up to date. We
will translate the important pages into English ASAP.

If you need to contact the Polish Chapter, feel free to msg me (TOR_CNR)
or Datrio on #wikimedia on IRC, leave a message on our talk pages on
pl.wikimedia.org (or meta) or e-mail us (addresses can be found on meta).

Chapters aside, you can view the photos taken during the meetup on the
Commons under http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Polish_Wikimedia_Meetup_2005
or in Polish (if you want to practice our wonderfully difficult language
by reading the cations) under:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Zlot_Wikimedia_Polska_2005/Zdj%C4%99cia

I'd also like to thank everyone whose work and dedication made both the
Chapter and the meetup possible. Special thanks go to Datrio, Wulfstan
and G-dam for all the hard work they've done on the bylaws and to
Jadwiga for organizing things in Krakow wonderfully.

And a big thank you to Tim Shell (who attended the meetup and had to put
up with us Poles for two days :)) for all the patience, kind words and
encouragement!

--
Best regards,
Lucas "TOR" Garczewski


subject: [Foundation-l] Polish Chapter founded


from_name: Zachary Harden

subject:
[Foundation-l] Wikimania 2006 - host city contest to open
	onSeptember 1st 20

body:
Dear All,

While I agree with the idea that we should send it all over the world year
after year, we North Americans are stuck. My country, the United States, is
very hard to get into and some of our Wikipedians from overseas will have
problems getting in, such as those coming from China. So, if the USA is out
of the question, why not try our neighbors up north, Canada? Well, if
Wikipedians have been convicted of a crime, they can see them being denied
entry. Such crimes include DUI's, can restrict this entry. Plus, Mexico and
other nations in that region might not have what we need. I know Japan can
be a good host, but other than Japan and some of Europe, we pretty much
can't really go anywhere else.

Regards,

Zachary Harden (Zscout370)

>From: Dori <slowpoke at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
>To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
>Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2006 - host city contest to open
>onSeptember 1st 2005
>Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:57:12 -0500
>
>If I may suggest, I would say one requirement should be that it be
>held on a different continent each year.
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Viral marketing?

body:
Ben Yates wrote:
> Still, someone wrote into boingboing with the following:
>
> "I can't say who I am, but I do work at a company that uses Wikipedia
> as a key part of online marketing strategies. That includes planting
> of viral information in entries, modification of entries to point to
> new promotional sites or "leaks" embedded in entries to test diffusion
> of information. Wikipedia is just a more transparent version of
> Myspace as far as some companies are concerned. We love it (evil
> laugh).
>
> On the other side, I love it from an academia/sociological standpoint,
> and I don't necessarily have a problem with it used as a viral
> marketing tool. After all, marketing is a form of information, with
> just a different end point in mind (consuming rather than learning)."
>
> How well can wikipedia protect itself against this unfamiliar sort of
> systemic bias?

Craig Hubley predicted this kind of thing years ago, and suggested that
the response should be retaliation. For example, a policy that all
favourable articles about products should be rewritten with a negative bias.

Of course, this (and for that matter, almost all of Craig's other ideas)
would be completely unacceptable to the Wikipedia community, I just
thought it was an interesting point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Spam&oldid=1348455

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Ryan Delaney

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
Alphax wrote:

>DDoS has been remarkably effective in changing corporate minds in the
>past. Look at the case of eToy.
>
>
This (Wikipedia endorsing a DDoS) will never happen, so its pointless to
argue about, but I just wanted to go on the record saying I am totally
against it. This isn't the wild west. Block their IP range if absolutely
necessary, but DDoSing them is insane.

- Ryan Delaney


subject: [WikiEN-l] Sphaera Mundi

body:
Poor, Edmund W (Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com) [050815 23:18]:

> It is not true that you did this because it was REQUIRED. You did it to
> direct traffic to your web site. You even created a sock puppet account
> with your web site address as its username.
> You have 2 choices at this point:
> 1. Donate the words you wrote DIRECTLY to Wikipedia (agreeing with the
> disclaimer you surely saw, next to the 'save' button, which licenses
> Wikipedia to use that text in accordance with the GNU Free Documentation
> Licenses); or,
> 2. We will rewrite the article completely - making a fresh start of it.
> This will remove the issue of an attribution notice.
> If you don't make a choice promptly (and politely!) I will make the
> choice for you, and it will be #2. I remind you of [[Wikipedia:Gaming
> the system]]; have you read it yet?
> Also, it seems likely that you do not understand GFDL. Once you license
> some text under the GFDL, it is no longer "yours". A republisher need
> only comply with the minimum requirements, which is to credit you as the
> author.
> There is no obligation to link to a website you are trying to advertise.

*applause* I concur with every word, and the proposed action is IMO the
correct one.

- d.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
Sean Barrett (sean at epoptic.org) [050816 01:34]:

> If it could be shown to the satisfaction of the ArbComm that it was an
> organized campaign, I would be in favor of a month-long block on the
> entire address space of the organizers, ''pour encourager les autres''.
>  We are not a blank billboard, and their graffiti is not welcome.

The latest case being the BBC, it would be well above AC level ;-)

- d.


from_name: Dori

body:
On 8/16/05, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org> wrote:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> > Hi Aitor,
> >
> > There is a translation at
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageEu.php , although I don't think
> > it's for the currentversion.
>
> I am going to wipe the various Languages files available on meta. They
> are not up to date and we (developers) prefers to use the
> special:allmessages from wikipedia.

The problem is how do you distribute the translations with MediaWiki?
I guess the various MediaWiki: namespace for each language could be
exported.


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [Wikitech-l] [[:en:Wikipedia:Snapshots]]

body:
This is a page started by +sj+ for the purpose of making life easier for
those wanting to take snapshots of Wikipedia - for a DVD, Palm, a mirror
site or whatever. It should probably actually be on meta, but this'll do
for a start ;-)

(I've also placed it in Category:Wikipedia 1.0 in anticipation of future
instructions on how to pull all articles with good ratings in a given area,
etc.)

Additions, expansions and comments are most welcomed.

- d.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Welcoming Peter C. Wayner and...

body:
Alphax (alphasigmax at gmail.com) [050816 01:55]:
> Theresa Knott wrote:
> > On 8/15/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> >>Maybe we should... just as page moving is disabled until you have a
> >>certain number of edits, so should new page creation. It would probably
> >>save VFD a whole lot of trouble.

> > No!No!No! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
> > Totally daft idea!
> > The first edit I ever made was creation of a new page. And it was a
> > crappy stub. And had I not been allowed to make it I may never have
> > become hooked.

> See disclaimer :) But it would stop the amount of junk having to be
> scraped out of VFD, yes?

Disclaimer or no, there are people who would take that reason seriously as
a justification. This sort of thinking is an example of why VFD  as it is
currently constituted is poisonous to the wiki.

- d.


body:
Daniel P. B. Smith (dpbsmith at verizon.net) [050815 23:48]:

> I've also opined (and got shot down on the basis of its being pure
> speculation) that some of these "brittle" contributors are just very
> _young._ I had a personal run-in with one contributor who
> indiscreetly revealed (or asserted) an age in the very early teens. I
> have to think that some of the emphasis on pop-culture, fancraft,
> Harry Potter, and Pokemon topics is age-related. And a certain degree
> of "brittleness" is characteristic of adolescents in general, and
> bright adolescents whose intellectual and emotional development is
> out of sync in particular.
> A common characteristic of that age is a total inability to let
> things go and not sweat the small stuff. Every tiny rejection is
> fought tooth and nail, not for personal reasons of course, but
> because of The Principle Of The Thing.
> I am sure that if I personally were fourteen years old right now I
> would a) be contributing to Wikipedia and b) would be one of those
> "brittle" and problematic users.
> Instead of being the trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
> courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent,
> and modest person I am now.

I don't think this requires being down on the young. Adults who do it are
probably worst to deal with actually.

- d.


from_name: Sisay Fissaha Adafre

subject: [Foundation-l] Research access to logs

body:
Hi Everybody,

I am working in the area of Question-Answering (QA), particulary QA against
Wikipedia. I am from Informatics Institute of Univeristy of Amsterdam. One of
the things that I am planning to do is analysis of user information needs. Users
include both end-users and authors. For that I need the access logs of
Wikipedia. I have talked about my research plan to a number of people during
Wikimania conference. http://www.science.uva.nl/~sfissaha/Proj_Outline.pdf is a
short-description of my research plan, which I also gave some of the people I
talked to, including Jimmy. Recently I wrote a paper "Discovering Missing Links
in Wikipedia" which is accepted in LinkKDD-2005, August 21-24 Chicago.

I would greatly appreciate any help in this matter. My Supervisor is Maarten de
Rijke. I am willing to sign any legal document relating to privacy issue.

Best Wishes

Sisay


subject: [Foundation-l] Research access to logs


from_name: Michael Turley

body:
On 8/15/05, Jack Lynch <jack.i.lynch at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have also worked as a caretaker of the disabled, and I think the
> comments and advise by Michael Turley / User:Unfocused were especially
> useful and apt. Hopefully they get read by those who need them most...
> What would you think about posting them up somewhere on the wiki?
>
> Jack (Sam Spade)

You're welcome to copy them freely, post them where you like, and edit
them mercilessly with or without attribution.

Or, more formally, I release them to the public domain.

--
Michael Turley
User:Unfocused


from_name: Tobias Denninger

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Research access to logs

body:
Jerome Jamnicky <jeronimwp at ...> writes:

> If you haven't already, please read the privacy policy carefully, and
> also this thread, where somebody made a similar request for a similar
> purpose:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2005-July/thread.html#30917

I don't need a direct access to the log file. I also don't want the statistics
for myself but I had the idea a feature like I explained before could be useful
for the wikipedia. So all personal data could remain on a wikipedia server.
Personal recommendations would be visible only to the concerned user. I would
just need a sample of the logfile to test scripts. But maybe we should first
clarify if we want to add this feature..Tobias


from_name: Phroziac

body:
TERRIBLE idea. Terrible!

On 8/16/05, Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16/08/05, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
> > > Open question to all: do you think that new accounts should be prevented
> > > from creating pages? Would it clean out VFD? Or is the idea
> > > fundamentally unwiki?
> >
> >
> > The idea is fundamentally unwiki and deeply awful. The purpose of Wikipedia
> > is not to make VFD manageable.
>
> Also wrote:
> > This sort of thinking is an example of why VFD  as it is
> > currently constituted is poisonous to the wiki.
>
> Well said.
>
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
signature


from_name: Dan Grey

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Re: I can plant viral marketing in the vasty
	Wikipedia...

body:
Can I ask you to resist changing the subject of e-mails when you
reply? It's a pain to have the same conversation spread acrosss
different threads.

Thanks in advance.

Dan


from_name: Jimmy Wales

subject:
[Foundation-l] Wikimania 2006 - host city contest to
	open	onSeptember 1st 20

body:
Zachary Harden wrote:
> My country, the United
> States, is very hard to get into and some of our Wikipedians from
> overseas will have problems getting in, such as those coming from China.

This is widely believed, but is it actually true?

We should get some hard facts before excluding the US completely from
consideration.

For citizens of (much of) the EU, Australia, and Japan (and a few other
places like Singapore and Brunei), there is no need for a visa at all.
You just show up and come on in, no problem.

For China, the case you mention, according to the travel.state.gov
website, the waiting time for an exchange visa (cultural exchange, one
of the types of visas which could be used to visit a conference I
think), is 1 day.  Even an ordinary tourist visa has a wait time of only
17 days.

However my information is quite incomplete, and I am not arguing that
the visa issue is a non-issue.  I'm just saying that we should not make
assumptions.

--Jimbo


list: wiktionary-l

from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wiktionary-l] Islandic wiktionary

body:
Hoi,
Brion was so good to change the capitalisation for the Islandic
wiktionary.. So the Icelandic wiktionarians can do there best :)

So now lets hope Brion finds his script he used so well on the English
Wiktionary and change the Polish wiktionary as well.

Thanks,
    GerardM


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
David Gerard wrote:
>>I'd assume that a body corporate like the BBC would have its own range
>>of IP adddresses. If they will hold us to ransom, we could quite easily
>>block their entire IP range from editing, consequences be damned; better
>>yet, encourage people (read: slashdot users) to DDoS BBC until they
>>cease and desist.
>>Remember, it's our site, we make the rules.
>
> Y'know, diplomacy does have a lot going for it as a first option.

Indeed.  And I worked at the BBC with Angela for 2 weeks last fall and
met and spoke to a total number of people in the hundreds.  I think it
is safe to say of the BBC as an organization that they know about
Wikipedia, they love Wikipedia, and they aren't the sort of idiots who
would try a viral marketing campaign relying on Wikipedia.

Bright people, and friendly.  Like Wikipedians. :-)

--Jimbo


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
Alphax wrote:
> They are abusing our site for corporate gain! Surely we have every right
> to block them! They at least owe us an apology for misusing our
> resources like this.

I think you might want to followup on how the story played out.  There's
basically zero chance in my opinion that this was an intentional thing
by the BBC itself.

Remember, we know a lot of people at the BBC.  They are fans of
Wikipedia.  They *get it* at the BBC about the Internet in a way that I
have found very rare in my now numerous talks to people at media companies.

--Jimbo


from_name: Ilya Haykinson

body:
On 8/16/05, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> Zachary Harden wrote:
> > My country, the United
> > States, is very hard to get into and some of our Wikipedians from
> > overseas will have problems getting in, such as those coming from China.
>
> This is widely believed, but is it actually true?
>

For what it's worth, folks I know in Central and South America have
nearly no chance to get here (into the US) on a tourist visa unless:
 * they have a really really high-paying job in their country of origin, and/or
 * have a lot of kids in their country of origin, and/or
 * own a lot of real estate in their country of origin

The US is very picky, and if there's any likelihood that people will
not return from a country, they will not issue the visa. From past
experience, the same applies to other countries (I know of similar
experiences in Russia).

For North America I would instead recommend Canada. It's fairly easily
accessible by car or plane from the US and as far as I know has less
restrictive visitor policies.

-ilya haykinson


body:
On 16/08/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> Assume good faith, Dan :) First blame the ISP, then the mail client,
> then the user.

Well, I seem to remember we had the same thing a while back. Gmail,
which seems to a very popular tool on this list, threads by subject
line. So if people change the subject line, new threads on the same
topic appear, which is annoying :-).

Dan


from_name: A. Nony Mouse

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Exercises in social engineering

body:
If your definition of "trolling" is doing something to provoke a
reaction... I plead guilty, yes. There was no other way to do it given
the groupthink attitude towards dissent on certain topics.

This is a standing offer to anyone that wants to take me up on it: I
will answer any question you have, save for my real Wikipedia name, as
completely as I can.

I am making this offer in good faith. Yes, I violated policy. I
believe I had good reason to. I may have made an error in judgement
letting it go on that long, but that is something I have to live with
and learn from.

A. Nony Mouse

On 8/10/05, Phroziac <phroziac at gmail.com> wrote:
> *sigh*, so in other words you are a troll? Your actions really piss me
> off, but of course that's what you wanted. :(
>


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [Foundation-l] Polish Chapter founded

body:
Great news!

--- TOR <tor at oak.rpg.pl> wrote:

> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>
> I am happy to inform you, that "Stowarzyszenie Wikimedia Polska"
> (Wikimedia Polska Association), the Polish Chapter of Wikimedia
> Foundation, has been founded this sunday in Krakow, during a larger two
> day event called "Wikimedia Polska 2005 Meetup". More than 25 founding
> members signed the documents.
>
> Five Wikimedians were pre-elected to the Board of Wikimedia Polska:
> - ?ukasz Garczewski (pl:User:TOR), as president;
> - Piotr Cywi?ski (pl:User:Wulfstan), as vice-president;
> - Tomasz Ganicz (pl:User:Polimerek), as tresurer;
> - Dariusz Siedlecki (pl:User:Datrio), as scretary;
> - Jadwiga Andrychowska-Biegacz (pl:User:Jadwiga), as board member.
>
> We still have to get the documents to court and take care of all the
> formalities, but we can already see new possibilites opening up before us.
>
> Please visit http://pl.wikimedia.org/ for more information and the
> latest news on the Polish Chapter if you want to keep up to date. We
> will translate the important pages into English ASAP.
>
> If you need to contact the Polish Chapter, feel free to msg me (TOR_CNR)
> or Datrio on #wikimedia on IRC, leave a message on our talk pages on
> pl.wikimedia.org (or meta) or e-mail us (addresses can be found on meta).
>
> Chapters aside, you can view the photos taken during the meetup on the
> Commons under http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Polish_Wikimedia_Meetup_2005
> or in Polish (if you want to practice our wonderfully difficult language
> by reading the cations) under:
>
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Zlot_Wikimedia_Polska_2005/Zdj%C4%99cia
>
> I'd also like to thank everyone whose work and dedication made both the
> Chapter and the meetup possible. Special thanks go to Datrio, Wulfstan
> and G-dam for all the hard work they've done on the bylaws and to
> Jadwiga for organizing things in Krakow wonderfully.
>
> And a big thank you to Tim Shell (who attended the meetup and had to put
> up with us Poles for two days :)) for all the patience, kind words and
> encouragement!
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Lucas "TOR" Garczewski
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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subject: [Foundation-l] Polish Chapter founded


from_name: Cormac Lawler

body:
On 8/16/05, Zachary Harden <zscout370 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> While I agree with the idea that we should send it all over the world year
> after year, we North Americans are stuck. My country, the United States, is
> very hard to get into and some of our Wikipedians from overseas will have
> problems getting in, such as those coming from China. So, if the USA is out
> of the question, why not try our neighbors up north, Canada? Well, if
> Wikipedians have been convicted of a crime, they can see them being denied
> entry. Such crimes include DUI's, can restrict this entry. Plus, Mexico and
> other nations in that region might not have what we need. I know Japan can
> be a good host, but other than Japan and some of Europe, we pretty much
> can't really go anywhere else.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zachary Harden (Zscout370)

For all of the above, and more, see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_2006/Planning

Please also take a look at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Improving_on_Wikimania_2005
and
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_-_lessons_learned
and add to them as you like - even if you weren't there..

Cormac


subject: [Foundation-l] Foundation board meeting with chapter boards

body:
I just wanted to draw broader attention to the planned board meeting 18
August, 18:00 UTC in irc.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_agenda#August_week_3

I want especially to invite the board members of the existing chapters.

--Jimbo


from_name: Aitor Lazkano

body:
Hello.

I'm going to translate MediaWiki to Basque (the language of the Basque Country,
also known as Euskara).

I want to know if there is any similar project started, in order not
to make it twice.

Thank you very much,
Aitor


body:
--- Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> We should get some hard facts before excluding the US completely from
> consideration.

Exactly. Part of the bid process for each potential host city can and should
look into these issues. We should also look at where people are likely to come
from and at what total participation would be for any event in any city bid.

No nation should be excluded at this point. Each bid should be looked at in its
entirety. Some parts of the bid may be less than ideal (such as access from
certain other nations or cost of travel), but other parts of the bid could very
well make up for that.

We could also explore ways to help mitigate against worst cases (such as the
foundation contacting the host city?s government beforehand to see if tourist
visas could be more easily granted for the event ; I?m sure many governments do
that for conferences).

In the future we may also want to have national WikiMeets.

-- mav

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subject:
[Foundation-l] Re: gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation: Authorization
	required

body:
Hi,

I exist. I am Sisay Fissaha.

Thanks

> You have sent a message to be posted on the
> gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation newsgroup.
>
> Before the message is posted on the newsgroup, you have
> to confirm that you exist.  Just reply to this message, and
> the message will be posted.
>
>
> You have to respond within one week.
>
> --
> Your friendly autoauthorizer at Gmane.org
> http://gmane.org/
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 16/08/05, Ryan Delaney <ryan.delaney at gmail.com> wrote:>
> This (Wikipedia endorsing a DDoS) will never happen, so its pointless to
> argue about, but I just wanted to go on the record saying I am totally
> against it. This isn't the wild west. Block their IP range if absolutely
> necessary, but DDoSing them is insane.

And couldn't happen. Remember - the BBC was serving 10Gb a *second* on
the morning of July 7. Slashdot's influence is so small it doesn't
even produce a noticeable blip in our requests per second.

Jimbo pretty much hits the nail on the head - for a small PR firm, the
hullabaloo would be great for them, and far more effective than if
their "viral" campaign had gone unnoticed.

However if you want to start entertaining the idea of range-blocking
the BBC or other big company - which would make the news wires, I'd
imagine - you need a very high level of proof, or you're going to look
stupid in front the world. Not good for image (but would sure drive WP
a lot of traffic :-) ).

I believe the Jamie Kane article was started by a username. It may be
possible to get the devs to find out the IP address assoicated with
that name (I believe the last-used IP for that address is recorded,
but nothing more). If that IP resolves to the BBC... well, that's
something. But the BBC has some 20,000+ employees and it could still
all be a co-incidence, albeit a suspicious one.

Dan


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 16/08/05, Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> How much do the combined Wikimedia servers serve? What would happen if
> all the Wikimedia sites were redirected to the BBC for a day?

I don't think the new colo has a traffic meter, but before the June 7
move peak was about 120Mb/s, around 1/100th of the BBC's peak, so we'd
have no effect whatsoever. (In terms of traffic, we get about half:
http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=640&h=480&r=6m&y=r&u=wikipedia.org/&u=bbc.co.uk
. Bear in mind the BBC has much more multimedia on their site than us,
hence the disproportionally high data flow for them.)

> It's like [[WP:BEANS]] - now that someone has tried, everyone else will too.

I don't know. One incident is news worthy. A second is "Already been
done. Goodbye" from the point of view of the media.

> They are abusing our site for corporate gain! Surely we have every right
> to block them! They at least owe us an apology for misusing our
> resources like this.

Our top priority has to be coming away from this without harming our -
or Jimbo's personal - reputation. Making big claims which could hit
the media without a high level of proof wouldn't be a Good Thing.

> Well, if they want to violate [[WP:POINT]], we can disrupt them back. To
> quote [[meta:Bash]]: You can, however, disrupt Encarta to make a point.
> I don't see why the same shouldn't hold for anyone who corporate
> entities who do the same to us.
>
> Besides, if the BBC has 20,000+ employees on their side, how many more
> users do we have on *our* side? With the powers of Wikipedia and
> Slashdot combined...

Remember we only have a few hundred active editors on any one day. The
BBC's web infrastructure is extremely powerful - our is nothing in
comparison, and in turn /. is nothing compared to us!

Anyway two wrongs don't make a right.

Dan


subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 16/08/05, Dan Grey <dangrey at gmail.com> wrote:(In terms of traffic,
we get about half:
> http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=640&h=480&r=6m&y=r&u=wikipedia.org/&u=bbc.co.uk

More interesting graph (24 months vs 6):

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=640&h=480&r=24m&y=r&u=wikipedia.org/&u=bbc.co.uk

Dan


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
> How much do the combined Wikimedia servers serve? What would happen if
> all the Wikimedia sites were redirected to the BBC for a day?

sod all cheack out their alexa rank

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&y=p&url=www.bbc.co.uk#top

They run along with everthing else a news site. After spet 11 they
have learned. The bad publictly for wikipedia would bite big time.

> They are abusing our site for corporate gain! Surely we have every right
> to block them! They at least owe us an apology for misusing our
> resources like this.

Doubtful. Remember with the exception of a few spin off enterprizes
the BBC is non profit makeing.

> Well, if they want to violate [[WP:POINT]], we can disrupt them back. To
> quote [[meta:Bash]]: You can, however, disrupt Encarta to make a point.
> I don't see why the same shouldn't hold for anyone who corporate
> entities who do the same to us.
>
> Besides, if the BBC has 20,000+ employees on their side, how many more
> users do we have on *our* side? With the powers of Wikipedia and
> Slashdot combined...

Not a significant number since the BCC is one of the planets most
respected news organisations. They are the number 1 site in the uk.
You'd get almost no supporters and I doubt they would even notice any
such "attack".
--
geni


from_name: Tim Starling

body:
Tobias Denninger wrote:
> Hello..
>
> ..I think it could be useful to compute the probability an article B is read on
> condition that another article A is read whithin a short timeframe before from a
> specific reader. Based on this probabilities suggestions could be made to the
> reader of a specific article which articles could be also interesting (maybe a
> kind of collaborative filtering or Amazon's "Customers who bought this book also
> bought.."). Subscribed user could offered personalized recommendations based on
> the computation how probable it is that an article is of interest to that
> specific user who read those articles. I'd be interested in implementing that
> idea, so as a first step I'd be interested in a sample log file with a size of
> some Megabyte.

I'd better explain that. This is a person who approached me during
Wikimania asking for access to logs. I was positive at the time but more
guarded by email recently, given the tone of discussion in this thread.
I suggested to him (and to the other person who approached me at
Wikimania, who will hopefully post soon), that he state his case to the
list, to allow for public debate. So please take him seriously, and ask
him some questions.

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Skyring

subject: [WikiEN-l] Viral marketing?

body:
On 8/16/05, Michael Turley <michael.turley at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/15/05, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> > Dan Grey wrote:
> > > Probably a waste of time - any PR company that fancies trying their
> > > luck isn't going to consult past arbcom cases, and won't care if they
> > > get blocked anyway.
> >
> > They probably will care if I mock them mercilessly in the press, though.
> >
> > Well, some of them will.  Big companies would be quite unhappy to end up
> > looking so annoying.  But very small companies might be willing to get
> > negative press; at least it is attention.
> >
> > --Jimbo
>
> Even better: savage their *clients* for choosing such a daft PR firm,
> where appropriate.

Better yet, issue a fatwah.

The whole point of viral marketing is to get people talking about it.
Having the founder of Wikipedia jump up and down over Ford or Nike or
the BBC merely sends a message to the little guys that it's worth
trying.

The comparison with graffiti is apposite. The people who tag walls and
subway carriages want attention. Offering it to them is
counter-productive. The best strategy is to paint over it as soon as
possible rather than call a press conference.

--
Peter in Canberra


from_name: Ashar Voultoiz

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> Hi Aitor,
>
> There is a translation at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageEu.php , although I don't think
> it's for the currentversion.

I am going to wipe the various Languages files available on meta. They
are not up to date and we (developers) prefers to use the
special:allmessages from wikipedia.

The Eureska wikipedia got some messages translated:
  http://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Allmessages

> It's also not on CVS.
>
> I'm not sure which language file the Basque Wikipedia uses, but their
> default interface is completely translated.

Actually it uses the english language file. I will create a default
language file, will probably not make it inherit from spanish or basque
people might be angry :)

cheers,

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080


from_name: Elisabeth Bauer

subject:
[Foundation-l] Wikimania 2006 - host city contest to open on
	September 1st 2005

body:
Dori wrote:
> If I may suggest, I would say one requirement should be that it be
> held on a different continent each year.

We discussed this after Wikimania, and conclusion was that the contest
should be open to submissions from all continents. Having it on a
different continent is certainly desirable (and the jury will take this
into account) but it should be a soft requirement.

greetings,
elian


body:
OK. I'm to translate 'LanguageEs.php' (from Spanish) and create
'LanguageEu.php'
(following ISO 639 Language Codes).

I'm working with the files from 'mediawiki-1.5beta4', the last version
available. As
soon as I finish it, I report it to you.

See u.

2005/8/16, Ashar Voultoiz <hashar at altern.org>:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> > Hi Aitor,
> >
> > There is a translation at
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageEu.php , although I don't think
> > it's for the currentversion.
>
> I am going to wipe the various Languages files available on meta. They
> are not up to date and we (developers) prefers to use the
> special:allmessages from wikipedia.
>
> The Eureska wikipedia got some messages translated:
>   http://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Allmessages
>
> > It's also not on CVS.
> >
> > I'm not sure which language file the Basque Wikipedia uses, but their
> > default interface is completely translated.
>
> Actually it uses the english language file. I will create a default
> language file, will probably not make it inherit from spanish or basque
> people might be angry :)
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
> http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
> IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Robert Scott Horning

subject: [Foundation-l] Notes from the first August Board Meeting

body:
Angela wrote:

>It was proposed that the Wikiversity pages on Wikibooks be not deleted
>immediately, pending community discussion of where to move them, and
>of the best way to incubate new projects. Please discuss this on this
>mailing list.
>
>
I'm glad to see that some discussion on the board level has covered this
topic.  As far as deleting Wikiversity from Wikibooks, I don't see that
happening any time soon.  The earlier post about the Wikiversity
Relaunch (before I heard about the board discussion on this topic) gave
an earliest deletion date, and I don't see any Wikibooks admins killing
it before then (November 15th as an absolute hard date for the earliest
it will be deleted).  If some movement happens to define a project
incubation area besides Meta or Wikibooks, that discussion is certainly
welcome as well.

--
Robert Scott Horning


body:
On 16/08/05, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
> > Open question to all: do you think that new accounts should be prevented
> > from creating pages? Would it clean out VFD? Or is the idea
> > fundamentally unwiki?
>
>
> The idea is fundamentally unwiki and deeply awful. The purpose of Wikipedia
> is not to make VFD manageable.

Also wrote:
> This sort of thinking is an example of why VFD  as it is
> currently constituted is poisonous to the wiki.

Well said.

Dan


body:
Aitor Lazkano wrote:
> OK. I'm to translate 'LanguageEs.php' (from Spanish) and create
> 'LanguageEu.php'
> (following ISO 639 Language Codes).
>
> I'm working with the files from 'mediawiki-1.5beta4', the last version
> available. As
> soon as I finish it, I report it to you.
>
> See u.

Please read the guide I have made on:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_localisation

I also made a stub for LanguageEu and added it to cvs repository:
  http://noc.wikimedia.org/~hashar/LanguageEu.phps

Obiously, reusing LanguageEs.php will be fine :)

--
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar
http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/
IM: hashar at jabber.org  ICQ: 15325080