subject: OFFLIST : Re: [Foundation-l] Re: Open questions

body:
How did I miss this meeting?

--- Anthere <anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Though there are many suggestions on hiring and spending money, that
> does not mean we will follow all these suggestions. Some editors favored
> spending money to improve technical issues. Others to improve
> communication. Others to improve the grant area. Or the legal area.
>
> I think in all these cases, we first need to really make sure we do not
> host the resources amongst ourselves. We obviously can not fund all of
> them right now.
>
> There is one thing which is certain though. There is a lot to do, and we
> are currently stretched to the limit of our availabilities. One answer
> could be to try to get more editors involved in meta issues.
>
> Ant
>
> Dori a ?crit:
> > That's a lot of suggestions on hiring and spending money. Can we make sure
> > that the act of getting more money doesn't bankrupt the foundation? I would
>
> > hope some funds are set aside for hosting and rainy days.
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2005 8:48 PM, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions at
> >>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_agenda/Open_questions.
> >>
> >>A lot of good suggestions and helpful comments were made, and I'm
> >>hoping we will be able to carry out some of these in the near future,
> >>or to at least begin considering them.
> >>
> >>Here is a summary of some of the suggestions. The inclusion of these
> >>does not mean there was necessarily agreement on carrying out the
> >>suggestion. Please see [[m:Board agenda/Open questions]] for the full
> >>discussion.
> >>
> >>== Hosting ==
> >>* Delegate the management of offers or centralize all hosting offers with
> >>Jimbo
> >>* Create a private wiki
> >>* Hire a secretary for Jimbo
> >>* Hire someone to manage grants and partnerships
> >>* Use OTRS more effectively
> >>* Run offers by a legal committee first
> >>* Hire a lawyer to write contracts
> >>* Ask potential partners/hosts whether we can list them among our
> >>"potential partners and hosts" before doing so
> >>* Have a standard response for people making offers
> >>* Be clear about how we could integrate the resources on offer
> >>* Consider placing databases outside the US
> >>* Consider the legal implications of chapters owning servers
> >>
> >>== Trademarks ==
> >>* The status of trademark/domain registrations should be listed on the
> >>Foundation website
> >>* A group should be tasked with keeping track of this information
> >>* Get a lawyer to write a contract regarding licensing the logo
> >>* See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logo_and_trademark_policy
> >>
> >>== Membership ==
> >>* Create a portal that allows the community to pay one another to
> >>produce such tasks
> >>* Revive the membership task
> >>* Hire a programmer
> >>* Specifying tasks properly
> >>* Mixed views on whether membership was worthwhile, but most thought it
> >>was.
> >>
> >>== Money ==
> >>* Developer committee should advise on what to buy
> >>* Budget should be documented
> >>* Hire programmers for Wikispecies and have them write a decent UI
> >>
> >>== Promotion ==
> >>* Appoint a multi-lingual PR coordinator
> >>* Have an explicit PR budget
> >>* Have an unofficial PR committee
> >>* Spend more on promotion (not all agreed with this)
> >>* Outreach programs to educational institutions
> >>
> >>== Grants ==
> >>* Hire a full-time grants coordinator
> >>* Find a way of getting more community involvement with grants
> >>
> >>== Developers ==
> >>* Appoint a developer liaison and possibly a separate server liaison
> >>* Encourage and empower the developer committee
> >>
> >>== Communication ==
> >>* Clarify the relationship between the Board and the community
> >>* Global message notification and translation
> >>* More regular letters from the board
> >>* More regular/more often meetings
> >>* More formal involvement between chapters and the board
> >>* Reform the OTRS procedures
> >>* Reinvigorat the system of embassies, with elected ambassadors
> >>
> >>--
> >>Angela.
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>foundation-l mailing list
> >>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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list: wikimedia-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Daniel Mayer


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Open questions

body:
Though there are many suggestions on hiring and spending money, that
does not mean we will follow all these suggestions. Some editors favored
spending money to improve technical issues. Others to improve
communication. Others to improve the grant area. Or the legal area.

I think in all these cases, we first need to really make sure we do not
host the resources amongst ourselves. We obviously can not fund all of
them right now.

There is one thing which is certain though. There is a lot to do, and we
are currently stretched to the limit of our availabilities. One answer
could be to try to get more editors involved in meta issues.

Ant

Dori a ?crit:
> That's a lot of suggestions on hiring and spending money. Can we make sure
> that the act of getting more money doesn't bankrupt the foundation? I would
> hope some funds are set aside for hosting and rainy days.
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 8:48 PM, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions at
>>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_agenda/Open_questions.
>>
>>A lot of good suggestions and helpful comments were made, and I'm
>>hoping we will be able to carry out some of these in the near future,
>>or to at least begin considering them.
>>
>>Here is a summary of some of the suggestions. The inclusion of these
>>does not mean there was necessarily agreement on carrying out the
>>suggestion. Please see [[m:Board agenda/Open questions]] for the full
>>discussion.
>>
>>== Hosting ==
>>* Delegate the management of offers or centralize all hosting offers with
>>Jimbo
>>* Create a private wiki
>>* Hire a secretary for Jimbo
>>* Hire someone to manage grants and partnerships
>>* Use OTRS more effectively
>>* Run offers by a legal committee first
>>* Hire a lawyer to write contracts
>>* Ask potential partners/hosts whether we can list them among our
>>"potential partners and hosts" before doing so
>>* Have a standard response for people making offers
>>* Be clear about how we could integrate the resources on offer
>>* Consider placing databases outside the US
>>* Consider the legal implications of chapters owning servers
>>
>>== Trademarks ==
>>* The status of trademark/domain registrations should be listed on the
>>Foundation website
>>* A group should be tasked with keeping track of this information
>>* Get a lawyer to write a contract regarding licensing the logo
>>* See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logo_and_trademark_policy
>>
>>== Membership ==
>>* Create a portal that allows the community to pay one another to
>>produce such tasks
>>* Revive the membership task
>>* Hire a programmer
>>* Specifying tasks properly
>>* Mixed views on whether membership was worthwhile, but most thought it
>>was.
>>
>>== Money ==
>>* Developer committee should advise on what to buy
>>* Budget should be documented
>>* Hire programmers for Wikispecies and have them write a decent UI
>>
>>== Promotion ==
>>* Appoint a multi-lingual PR coordinator
>>* Have an explicit PR budget
>>* Have an unofficial PR committee
>>* Spend more on promotion (not all agreed with this)
>>* Outreach programs to educational institutions
>>
>>== Grants ==
>>* Hire a full-time grants coordinator
>>* Find a way of getting more community involvement with grants
>>
>>== Developers ==
>>* Appoint a developer liaison and possibly a separate server liaison
>>* Encourage and empower the developer committee
>>
>>== Communication ==
>>* Clarify the relationship between the Board and the community
>>* Global message notification and translation
>>* More regular letters from the board
>>* More regular/more often meetings
>>* More formal involvement between chapters and the board
>>* Reform the OTRS procedures
>>* Reinvigorat the system of embassies, with elected ambassadors
>>
>>--
>>Angela.
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Open questions


from_name: Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales

subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l

body:
Anthere wrote:

> Only a limited number of people will receive the mails.
> The recipiendaries will be
> * the members of the WMF board (so, for now, Jimbo, Angela, Anthere,
> * Tim and Michael) the presidents of local associations (currently,
> * Ryo for the french board and Kurt for the german board) Legal
> * advisors. For now, three have agreed to join, Soufron, Aurevilly
> * and Micha?l Snow. Others have been contacted but have not answered
> * yet. Others might be soon contacted.

To be clear about this, we don't want this to be a general discussion
list but the exact parameters of who should be on it is somewhat
flexible.  We seek participation from lawyers and from people directly
and officially involved in legal issues with the local associations.

--Jimbo


subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l


subject: [Foundation-l] [xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx: The wikipedia online shop]

body:
(This message has been edited in the mailing list archives.)

----- Forwarded message from Leslie Nuccio <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx> -----

From: "Leslie Nuccio" <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:13:09 -0700
To: <board at wikimedia.org>
Subject: The wikipedia online shop

Hey all,

I noticed that you took down the shop link on the wikipedia homepage -
and your sales dropped dramatically as a result.

What I'd like to propose is either a thumbnail of a design line (or
product) on the homepage, and/or a permanent "Shop" tab in the global
navigation.  Since it seems that raising money for Wikimedia Foundation
is a priority, this is definitely a first step towards that end.

I'm leaving town tomorrow for the week, but my associate Samantha is in
to help come up with ideas.  We have a design team here and are happy to
donate design for free, so if you guys want to re-organize the shop of
have some product design ideas, feel free to tell us.

Cheers...

_______________

Leslie Nuccio
Account Development Director
CafePress.com
(xxx) xxx-xxxx direct
(xxx) xxx-xxxx fax
xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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If you have received this message in error, please notify the original sender
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--
"Pianosa is een Italie" - first words of 50,000th article on nl.wikipedia.org


from_name: Yann Forget

subject: [Foundation-l]  Submission on Orphan works

body:
Hi,

Le Tuesday 5 April 2005 08:54, Ray Saintonge a ?crit :
> Yann Forget wrote:
> >This is the text which will be submitted to the WSIS by the Education Taks
> >Force. The chapter below '''Rights of free access to repositories of
> >content''' was added from my recommendation. Critics and suggestions
> >welcomed.
>
> That being said I should put the following on the record which I
> submitted to the US Copyright Office in response to their call for
> comments in their study of orphan works.

That's interesting. Could you elaborate ?

I?am writing an article for the next Quatro about this.

Yann

--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Huikeshoven, A.H.

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: The value of Pronounciation

body:
Ant wrote:

>When I met Gerard in Rotterdam, he said "hi, I am Gerard". I answered I

>did not know him... Could not recognise a name though it is a name used

>in France...he had to spell it :-)

For a lot of non-Dutch speakers neither my first name nor my surname is
pronouncable. Neither would they understand them when I do pronounce
them myself. Surprisingly my first name is much harder than my surname.
To englishman I would most times introduces myself with an anglicized
version of my middle name - Henry - to evade the complexity of my first
name. For an englishman to pronounce my surname, here is the guide. Look
puzzled when reading, murmur two letters, embarrassingly look around for
help, give up - if I see that I know an englishman sincerely tried to
pronounce my surname. I do not answer questions about my first name.

As a rule of thumb, the dialect changes every 3 miles from the
North-Sead to the Alps through the Netherlands and Germany. Only
listening to local people in villages on such a trip you would not be
able to tell the border between the Netherlands and Germany. More
generally, in the USA the dialect varies enormously from state to state,
and even within states. For sure a Texan could tell Jimbo is not Texan
by only listening

Ad Huikeshoven

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body:
(This message has been edited in the mailing list archives.)

> ----- Forwarded message from Leslie Nuccio <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx> -----
> I noticed that you took down the shop link on the wikipedia homepage -
> and your sales dropped dramatically as a result.

It was actually on every page on the English Wikipedia (at least French too)
for 48 hours after the end of our last fund drive.

> What I'd like to propose is either a thumbnail of a design line (or
> product) on the homepage, and/or a permanent "Shop" tab in the global
> navigation.  Since it seems that raising money for Wikimedia Foundation
> is a priority, this is definitely a first step towards that end.

I?m not at all in favor of this since it would likely divert money away from
donations (a revenue stream where at least 95% goes directly to the foundation
- only 20% of CafePress sales go to the foundation). The amount of money
generated for the foundation through Cafe Press was tiny compared with the
amount of donation money we took in during the drive. This was even during the
time that a link to the shop was on every en.wiki page and some people
complained that was a form of advertising (the commission check that covers the
fund drive period was 400 to 500 dollars more than a regular commission check).

What we do now is send each person who donated through PayPal to a thank you
page on the foundation wiki where they are encouraged to buy merchandise.
There is also a link to the shop on the bottom of the donation page.

-- mav (just talking as a user, not as CFO)

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list: wikien-l

from_name: Matt Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

body:
One possibility is to disambiguate by year of birth.  If THOSE are the
same, it gets a little difficult!

-Matt


from_name: Josh Gordon

body:
Well, IMDB does it as [[Petr Sykora (I)]] and [[Petr Sykora (II))]]; their
FAQ says that there's no hard and fast rule how they order them, but they
try to use one or more of: who is most famous, who came first
chronologically, or who is searched for more often. But in this case, why
not say [[Petr Sykora (NHL forward)]] and [[Petr Sykora (NHL right wing]]?

jpgordon

On Apr 5, 2005 9:30 AM, JAY JG <jayjg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
> >same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two people
> >name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
> >something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow (soldier)|]].
> >But what do I do if they are the same thing.
> >
> >Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named Petr
> >Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
> >notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
> >has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
> >(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.
> >
> >-Kevin Rector
>
> Do they have a middle name or initial?
>
> Jay.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


list: wikitech-l

from_name: suresh.k.kadirvel at gsk.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] Transferring parameters between pages

body:
Hi,

My team is using mediawiki to create a wikipedia for our needs.
I am trying to create set of pages in it, which need to be linked through
some identifiers ( I wont be able to use Templates in this case).
So, when a user navigates from one internal page to other, one or more
number of parameters need to be passed to the other page.
I guess, my question is how to send parameters to an internal page if its
not a template.
Is there any methodology to implement that ?
Please advice.

Thanks,
Suresh Kadirvel


body:
Well, the newest one hasn't really played for any NHL teams yet! But he's
hoping...
How will the NHL differentiate between them in the roster?

On Apr 5, 2005 10:15 AM, Kevin Rector <krector at compco.com> wrote:
>
> Using the team isn't a good idea because they they've both played for a
> number of teams.
>
> -Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
> [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Orford
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:16 PM
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category
>
> You are sure they're different people, aren't you? :) How about using
> the names of their teams: [[Petr Sykora (Anaheim player)]] and [[Petr
> Sykora (Pardubice player)]] (I think)?
>
> On Apr 5, 2005 5:48 PM, Kevin Rector <krector at compco.com> wrote:
> > We couldn't use "forward" and "right wing" because a right wing is a
> > type of forward. Also, they are both centers (another type of
> forward).
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
> > [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gordon
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:47 AM
> > To: English Wikipedia
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category
> >
> > Well, IMDB does it as [[Petr Sykora (I)]] and [[Petr Sykora (II))]];
> > their
> > FAQ says that there's no hard and fast rule how they order them, but
> > they
> > try to use one or more of: who is most famous, who came first
> > chronologically, or who is searched for more often. But in this case,
> > why
> > not say [[Petr Sykora (NHL forward)]] and [[Petr Sykora (NHL right
> > wing]]?
> >
> > jpgordon
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Rick

body:
Years of birth or birthdate have been used as
disambiguaters before.  One could be, for example,
[[Petr Sykora (1972)]] and other [[Petr Sykora
(1980)]] (just using those years as examples.)

RickK

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from_name: Kevin Rector

body:
I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two people
name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow (soldier)|]].
But what do I do if they are the same thing.

Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named Petr
Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.

-Kevin Rector


body:
Not that I can find.

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
[mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of JAY JG
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:31 AM
To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
Subject: RE: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

>I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
>same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two
people
>name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
>something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow (soldier)|]].
>But what do I do if they are the same thing.
>
>Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named
Petr
>Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
>notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
>has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
>(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.
>
>-Kevin Rector

Do they have a middle name or initial?

Jay.

_______________________________________________
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WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
If you make that kind of announcement a few days before April 1 it's
bound to be counterproductive.  Many who had not paid attention to the
fact that April Fools Day was coming up will be reminded that it is time
to do something silly.

Ec

mbecker ? wrote:

>How about next year, we put an announcement on the main page stating
>Wikipedia is now removing all potentially offensive images, and then
>change the mediawiki code so that it will not render images! :)
>
>On Apr 4, 2005 9:37 AM, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Ok, I think next year we should not tolerate what went on this year.
>>But we should try to do something fun.
>>
>>Of all the ideas that I saw proposed, I think that the absolute best
>>compromise between those who love the holiday and those who are not
>>great fans of it would be to have the main page be 100% real and
>>accurate in every last respect, but *also* to have it be filled with
>>stories that people would naturally suspect to be hoaxes.
>>
>>[[Exploding whale]] is a nice example, as is [[Holy prepuce]] (which
>>was a real featured article already).
>>
>>Here's what I like about this compromise: first, it satisfies those of
>>us who understand that Wikipedia is first and foremost a serious
>>encyclopedia.  Second, it satisfies those who want to have fun
>>tricking people on April 1st.
>>
>>And finally, and most important, it appeals to all of us on both sides
>>of the debate who are intellectual snobs. :-) Any lame website can
>>come up with fake stories *yawn* to trick people *yawn*.  Only we
>>ubergeeks of Wikipedia can come up with *real* stories to trick
>>people.
>>


body:
Their birth years are different. How would that be formatted, [[Petr Sykora (born 1977)]] and [[Petr Sykora (born 1979)]]?

-Kevin Rector

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Theo Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:44 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

If they have truly identical names, can they be distinguished by their birth year?

Theo

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:26:31 +0100, Kevin Rector wrote:
>?I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in
>?the
>
>?same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two
>?people
>?name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
>?something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow
>?(soldier)|]].
>?But what do I do if they are the same thing.
>
>?Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named
>?Petr
>?Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both
>?are
>?notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he
>?already
>?has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
>?(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


body:
We couldn't use "forward" and "right wing" because a right wing is a
type of forward. Also, they are both centers (another type of forward).

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
[mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gordon
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:47 AM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

Well, IMDB does it as [[Petr Sykora (I)]] and [[Petr Sykora (II))]];
their
FAQ says that there's no hard and fast rule how they order them, but
they
try to use one or more of: who is most famous, who came first
chronologically, or who is searched for more often. But in this case,
why
not say [[Petr Sykora (NHL forward)]] and [[Petr Sykora (NHL right
wing]]?

jpgordon

On Apr 5, 2005 9:30 AM, JAY JG <jayjg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
> >same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two
people
> >name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
> >something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow
(soldier)|]].
> >But what do I do if they are the same thing.
> >
> >Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named
Petr
> >Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
> >notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
> >has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
> >(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.
> >
> >-Kevin Rector
>
> Do they have a middle name or initial?
>
> Jay.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


body:
Using the team isn't a good idea because they they've both played for a
number of teams.

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
[mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Orford
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:16 PM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

You are sure they're different people, aren't you? :) How about using
the names of their teams: [[Petr Sykora (Anaheim player)]] and [[Petr
Sykora (Pardubice player)]] (I think)?

On Apr 5, 2005 5:48 PM, Kevin Rector <krector at compco.com> wrote:
> We couldn't use "forward" and "right wing" because a right wing is a
> type of forward. Also, they are both centers (another type of
forward).
>
> -Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
> [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gordon
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category
>
> Well, IMDB does it as [[Petr Sykora (I)]] and [[Petr Sykora (II))]];
> their
> FAQ says that there's no hard and fast rule how they order them, but
> they
> try to use one or more of: who is most famous, who came first
> chronologically, or who is searched for more often. But in this case,
> why
> not say [[Petr Sykora (NHL forward)]] and [[Petr Sykora (NHL right
> wing]]?
>
> jpgordon
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: JAY JG

body:
>I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
>same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two people
>name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
>something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow (soldier)|]].
>But what do I do if they are the same thing.
>
>Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named Petr
>Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
>notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
>has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
>(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.
>
>-Kevin Rector

Do they have a middle name or initial?

Jay.


from_name: mbecker ™

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
How about next year, we put an announcement on the main page stating
Wikipedia is now removing all potentially offensive images, and then
change the mediawiki code so that it will not render images! :)

On Apr 4, 2005 9:37 AM, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> Ok, I think next year we should not tolerate what went on this year.
> But we should try to do something fun.
>
> Of all the ideas that I saw proposed, I think that the absolute best
> compromise between those who love the holiday and those who are not
> great fans of it would be to have the main page be 100% real and
> accurate in every last respect, but *also* to have it be filled with
> stories that people would naturally suspect to be hoaxes.
>
> [[Exploding whale]] is a nice example, as is [[Holy prepuce]] (which
> was a real featured article already).
>
> Here's what I like about this compromise: first, it satisfies those of
> us who understand that Wikipedia is first and foremost a serious
> encyclopedia.  Second, it satisfies those who want to have fun
> tricking people on April 1st.
>
> And finally, and most important, it appeals to all of us on both sides
> of the debate who are intellectual snobs. :-) Any lame website can
> come up with fake stories *yawn* to trick people *yawn*.  Only we
> ubergeeks of Wikipedia can come up with *real* stories to trick
> people.
>
> --Jimbo
>
> --
> "Pianosa is een Italie" - first words of 50,000th article on nl.wikipedia.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Michael Becker


body:
Kevin Rector wrote:

>Their birth years are different. How would that be formatted, [[Petr Sykora (born 1977)]] and [[Petr Sykora (born 1979)]]?
>
The birth years are the most practical approach, but these are 1976 and
1978.

Ec


from_name: Tony Sidaway

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
Daniel Mayer said:
>
> I also recycled a proposal that 'Did you know...?' could be used to
> list odd and surprising facts for that day from our growing list of
> unusual articles.

As long as whatever you're doing doesn't kill the kind of spontaneity that
had the toilet roll holder article on the main page, I don't mind.
Everybody I showed it to loved it.  Even people who wouldn't normally be
interested in Wikipedia thought it was a really well written bit of
nonsense.


from_name: Mathias Schindler

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to visualize wikipedia / Plotting all links
 between articles (or at least parts of it)

body:
Hi,

a journalist from a German magazine about technology emailed me and
asked for graphics. They are writing an article about wikipedia and so
far, they don't have enough images to make the article nice. Yes, they
already know the IBM history flow project and they already have pictures
of the server racks in Florida. And they will show the wikipedia globe
and so on. Maybe one of two graphs from Erik Zachte's great scripts.

He had in mind something like a graphical map of all wikipedia-articles
and their connections via links, something like this

http://research.lumeta.com/ches/map/gallery/wired.gif or
http://research.lumeta.com/ches/map/gallery/isp-ss.gif

I have no idea how to make such picture out of wikipedia-articles but I
would welcome any kind of feedback.

Mathias Schindler


subject:
[WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category: the Butler
	priciple vs the Thomson principle

body:
I like the birth date approach, and it seems to be the one the most
people have suggested. So I'm going with [[name (b. date)]].

-Kevin

I suggest the format

[[Petr Sykora (b. 1980)]]

Bishonen
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


body:
Josh Gordon wrote:

>Well, the newest one hasn't really played for any NHL teams yet! But he's
>hoping...
>How will the NHL differentiate between them in the roster?
>
The one born in 1978 has had a respectable career with New Jersey and
Anaheim, and has played for Magnitogorsk during the strike year.  The
older one played 2 NHL games with Nashville in the 1998-99 season, but
in recent years has been a regular player for his home town of
Pardubice.  Pardubice does not yet have an NHL franchise. :-)   His
older brother Michal has played for 4 NHL teams but has been back to
Pardubice in recent years. None of the other 6 Sykoras listed at
hockeydb.com have had anything to do with the NHL.

I forget how the Vancouver Canucks handled it in the 1988-89 season when
they had two players named Greg Adams on the roster.

Ec


body:
>From: Stuart Orford <sjorford at gmail.com>
>You are sure they're different people, aren't you? :) How about using
>the names of their teams: [[Petr Sykora (Anaheim player)]] and [[Petr
>Sykora (Pardubice player)]] (I think)?

What if they change teams?

Jay.


body:
Yeah, I just typed that from memory, and obviously I got it wrong. I
actually got them write when I create the disambig page.

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Saintonge
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:11 PM
To: English Wikipedia
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category

Kevin Rector wrote:

>Their birth years are different. How would that be formatted, [[Petr Sykora
(born 1977)]] and [[Petr Sykora (born 1979)]]?
>
The birth years are the most practical approach, but these are 1976 and
1978.

Ec

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] Public test wiki site

body:
Tomer Chachamu wrote:
> On Mar 19, 2005 10:33 PM, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>>I'm planning to set up a 1.5 test wiki on my personal site soon.
>
> Brion: Are you still planning to do this? When?

Yes, when I get around to it...

> To download from CVS and set stuff up is a lot of effort just to see
> what's new. Of course, if somebody could *tell* me, or link to an
> appropriate Bugzilla query or log, that would be good too.

Most of the changes are internal schema changes and thus not really
visible from the outside.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Zoney

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 3:50 PM, David Gerard <fun at thingy.apana.org.au> wrote:
> Tony Sidaway (minorityreport at bluebottle.com) [050405 22:31]:
> > Daniel Mayer said:
>
> > > I also recycled a proposal that 'Did you know...?' could be used to
> > > list odd and surprising facts for that day from our growing list of
> > > unusual articles.
>
> > As long as whatever you're doing doesn't kill the kind of spontaneity that
> > had the toilet roll holder article on the main page, I don't mind.
> > Everybody I showed it to loved it.  Even people who wouldn't normally be
> > interested in Wikipedia thought it was a really well written bit of
> > nonsense.
>
> Yes. All those who said this would lessen Wikipedia's reputation - is there
> any evidence of such, e.g. in press, blogs even?
>
>
> - d.
>
>

Most references in a Google news search for Wikipedia are news outlets
referencing Wikipedia for facts. That alone should be encouraging
(even if personally I don't think much of a news outlet for relying
solely on Wikipedia).

These are about the only 1 April refs I could find using Google news
search. The latter two just report the takeover word for word. The
first two links mention Wikipedia in the context of a roundup of April
Fools gags:

http://www.bizreport.com/news/8809/

http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/62025

http://slashdot.org/articles/05/04/01/1353234.shtml?tid=95

http://p2pnet.net/story/4406

So, no-one major seems to have particularly made much of it at all.

Zoney

--
~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...


from_name: Angela

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 3:37 PM, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> How did I miss this meeting?

There wasn't a meeting. It was simply an open discussion on meta, at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_agenda/Open_questions.

Sorry for any confusion, and please continue to add thoughts and
suggestions to that page.

Angela.


subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
Zoney said:
>
>
> So, no-one major seems to have particularly made much of it at all.
>

The Pope died laughing.  Isn't that enough?


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
Are you kidding? "Ad"? That has to be the easiest Dutch name in the
world. "Huikeshoven" I admit I don't know how you would pronounce it,
but I would go for /heIksofn/

Mark

On Apr 5, 2005 12:12 AM, Huikeshoven, A.H. <AHuikeshoven at minszw.nl> wrote:
>
> Ant wrote:
>
> >When I met Gerard in Rotterdam, he said "hi, I am Gerard". I answered I
>
> >did not know him... Could not recognise a name though it is a name used
>
> >in France...he had to spell it :-)
>
> For a lot of non-Dutch speakers neither my first name nor my surname is
> pronouncable. Neither would they understand them when I do pronounce
> them myself. Surprisingly my first name is much harder than my surname.
> To englishman I would most times introduces myself with an anglicized
> version of my middle name - Henry - to evade the complexity of my first
> name. For an englishman to pronounce my surname, here is the guide. Look
> puzzled when reading, murmur two letters, embarrassingly look around for
> help, give up - if I see that I know an englishman sincerely tried to
> pronounce my surname. I do not answer questions about my first name.
>
> As a rule of thumb, the dialect changes every 3 miles from the
> North-Sead to the Alps through the Netherlands and Germany. Only
> listening to local people in villages on such a trip you would not be
> able to tell the border between the Netherlands and Germany. More
> generally, in the USA the dialect varies enormously from state to state,
> and even within states. For sure a Texan could tell Jimbo is not Texan
> by only listening
>
> Ad Huikeshoven
>
> _________________________________________________________
>
> Het ministerie van Sociale Zaken en Werkgelegenheid sluit elke aansprakelijkheid uit in verband met het niet juist, onvolledig of niet tijdig overkomen van de informatie in deze e-mail.
> Aan dit bericht kunnen geen rechten worden ontleend.
>
> Dit bericht is alleen bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien dit bericht niet voor u bestemd is, verzoeken wij u dit onmiddellijk aan ons te melden en de inhoud van dit bericht te vernietigen.
> _________________________________________________________
>
> The ministry of Social Affairs and Employment is not liable for any incorrect or incomplete transmission of the information in this e-mail or for any delay in its receipt.
> This message shall not constitute any obligations.
>
> This message is intended solely for the addressee.
> If you have received this message in error, please inform us immediately and delete its content.
> _________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
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> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


from_name: Jean-Baptiste Soufron

subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l

body:
>
>> Only a limited number of people will receive the mails.
>> The recipiendaries will be
>> * the members of the WMF board (so, for now, Jimbo, Angela, Anthere,
>> * Tim and Michael) the presidents of local associations (currently,
>> * Ryo for the french board and Kurt for the german board) Legal
>> * advisors. For now, three have agreed to join, Soufron, Aurevilly
>> * and Micha?l Snow. Others have been contacted but have not answered
>> * yet. Others might be soon contacted.
>
>
> To be clear about this, we don't want this to be a general discussion
> list but the exact parameters of who should be on it is somewhat
> flexible.  We seek participation from lawyers and from people directly
> and officially involved in legal issues with the local associations.

That's exactly it.

Plus, everybody can send emails...


subject: [Foundation-l] Juriwiki-l


from_name: Faraaz Damji

subject: [WikiEN-l] DB upload trouble

body:
mediawiki-l would probably still be a better place to ask.  This is
about issues pertaining to the english wikipedia, and people here aren't
necessarily familiar with the software that keeps it running.  Pretty
much only the developers will be experienced in running mediawiki, and
they'll all be hanging around that mailing list.

You can also try #mediawiki on irc.freenode.net

Blog: http://frazzydee.dyndns.org

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d? s:- a--- C+++ UL++ P+ L+ E---- W++ N+ o+ K+ w+
O? M-- V? PS++ PE Y PGP++ t 5-- X+ R tv b++ DI++ D+
G++ e- h! !r !z
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Nicolay A. Vasiliev wrote:
> I meant the DB dump of WikiPedia
>
>> This list is about issues relating to the English Wikipedia. You want
>> MediaWiki-l: <http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Tomer Chachamu

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to visualize wikipedia / Plotting all links
	between articles (or at least parts of it)

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 12:37 PM, Mathias Schindler <neubau at presroi.de> wrote:
> He had in mind something like a graphical map of all wikipedia-articles
> and their connections via links, something like this
>
> http://research.lumeta.com/ches/map/gallery/wired.gif or
> http://research.lumeta.com/ches/map/gallery/isp-ss.gif
>
> I have no idea how to make such picture out of wikipedia-articles but I
> would welcome any kind of feedback.

>From the creators' sites:
"It is not easy to lay out a tree with 100,000 nodes" - Although many
of our articles have only a few links to them and a few links
outwards, plotting 5,000,000 is not a reasonable task. I suggest
instead taking the diagram of server layout on meta:, the Wikimedia
logo, a Wikipedia front page, another front page from another
language, etc.


from_name: Sérgio Ribeiro

body:
(This message has been edited in the mailing list archives.)

So, you foward this to the mailing list by mistake or you want our comments
?
If you want comments, I will say something like "If we already have a link
on the nav to the donations page, I think theres no problem with having one
to the shop."

And by the way. What happen to that idea of a mouse pad with wikicode tips ?
I liked the idea.

On Apr 5, 2005 4:43 PM, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Leslie Nuccio <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx> -----
>
> From: "Leslie Nuccio" <xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:13:09 -0700
> To: <board at wikimedia.org>
> Subject: The wikipedia online shop
>
> Hey all,
>
> I noticed that you took down the shop link on the wikipedia homepage -
> and your sales dropped dramatically as a result.
>
> What I'd like to propose is either a thumbnail of a design line (or
> product) on the homepage, and/or a permanent "Shop" tab in the global
> navigation. Since it seems that raising money for Wikimedia Foundation
> is a priority, this is definitely a first step towards that end.
>
> I'm leaving town tomorrow for the week, but my associate Samantha is in
> to help come up with ideas. We have a design team here and are happy to
> donate design for free, so if you guys want to re-organize the shop of
> have some product design ideas, feel free to tell us.
>
> Cheers...
>
> _______________
>
> Leslie Nuccio
> Account Development Director
> CafePress.com <http://CafePress.com>
> (xxx) xxx-xxxx direct
> (xxx) xxx-xxxx fax
> xxxxxxx at xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The contents of this message, together with any attachments, are intended
> only
> for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and
> may
> contain information that is confidential and exempt from disclosure. If
> you are
> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination,
> distribution, or copying of this message, or any attachment, is strictly
> prohibited.
> If you have received this message in error, please notify the original
> sender
> immediately by telephone or by return E-mail and delete this message,
> along
> with any attachments, from your computer. Thank you.
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> "Pianosa is een Italie" - first words of 50,000th article on
> nl.wikipedia.org <http://nl.wikipedia.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Edit this page @ http://pt.wikipedia.org


from_name: wiki pedista

subject: [Wikipedia-l] FOLDOC, acknowledgments and GFDL

body:
In a discussion back in 2002 (starting about here
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia/2002-August/021718.html
)
It was decided that the acknowledgment for the use of
FOLDOC material would be on the same page. I have seen
that said mentions still exist, with the use of a
template. Now the questions.

*Is this a legal requirement that comes from some
interpretation of our venerable GFDL or just courtesy?

*In either case, do the rights to modify our material
include the right of moving that notice to a less
prominent place, or removing it altogether?

*In [[Wikipedia:Boilerplate_request_for_permission]],
such mention is offered

''If you do agree to grant permission for use, we will
credit you for your work in the resulting article's
references section by stating it was based on your
work and is used with your permission, and by
providing a link back to your website.
''

Is this is still valid? Can we assure that our
re-users would keep that?

Sorry if this was already discussed somewhere else,
and long ago, but some recent issues in the Spanish
Wikipedia demand that we have a clearer understanding
of this.

Thank you,

AstroNomer

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250


from_name: Rowan Collins

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 3:51 PM, suresh.k.kadirvel at gsk.com
<suresh.k.kadirvel at gsk.com> wrote:

> My team is using mediawiki to create a wikipedia for our needs.

First, a quick semi-pedantic note: "Wikipedia" is not a generic noun,
it is trademark referring to a unique project; what you are setting up
is "a wiki". See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Names (and, possibly
become even more confused).

That aside...

> So, when a user navigates from one internal page to other, one or more
> number of parameters need to be passed to the other page.

If there are a fairly small number of possibilities for the parameter,
and not too many pages that need to use it either, you could just
create a whole set of pages, exhaustively covering all options, and
including a template with the correct parameter. e.g.:
[[Foo/a]] contains {{content of foo|a}}
[[Foo/b]] contains {{content of foo|b}}
[[Bar/a]] contains {{content of bar|a}}
etc. Still a lot of work to create them all, obviously, so probably not helpful.

> I guess, my question is how to send parameters to an internal page if its
> not a template.
> Is there any methodology to implement that ?

There's nothing really resembling that in MediaWiki, that I can think
of. In general web terms, the obvious solution would be to tack
parameters onto the URL, like "&param1=foo&param2=bar". The only kind
of page that can have magic parameters like that in MediaWiki are
"Special pages" - things like [[Special:Search]],
[[Special:Contributions]], [[Special:Recentchanges]], etc, which are
actually each a separate PHP class (dig through the code for how to
create one). These are really designed to be for completely dynamic
content, but depending what it is exactly you're trying to achieve,
you might be able to use one to stuff variables into an otherwise
static piece of content.

Thinking about it, you could even create a special page which took as
an argument the "template" page to stuff - as in
...title=Special:Stuffvariables&target=Page_with_variables_on&var1=foo&var2=bar.
One key trick is that links to special pages can be made with internal
syntax in the style [[Special:<pagename>/<param>]]; they don't,
however, get any kind of existence check, so you'd get blue links even
if you misspelled the target page's name.

Another approach that occurred to me is to look at where the user has
just been - either through the somewhat unreliable "referer" [sic]
information, or using some kind of cookie-based tracking system - and
then work out what the appropriate params would have been (might be
doable if all you needed was the title of the last page visited, say,
or something easily retrievable based on that). In terms of
implementing something like that, it might be worth checking out the
"bread crumbs" extension somebody's implemented at
http://public.kitware.com/Wiki/User:Barre/Extensions/kw_bread_crumbs.
A word of warning with that approach though - beware MediaWiki's
internal parser caching!

I hope these somewhat rambling thoughts are of some use - obviously,
it all depends what the exact effect you're trying to create is, and
how much coding you are prepared to do to make it happen...

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


from_name: Theo Clarke

body:
If they have truly identical names, can they be distinguished by their birth year?

Theo

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:26:31 +0100, Kevin Rector wrote:
>?I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in
>?the
>
>?same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two
>?people
>?name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
>?something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow
>?(soldier)|]].
>?But what do I do if they are the same thing.
>
>?Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named
>?Petr
>?Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both
>?are
>?notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he
>?already
>?has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
>?(2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.


from_name: Stuart Orford

body:
You are sure they're different people, aren't you? :) How about using
the names of their teams: [[Petr Sykora (Anaheim player)]] and [[Petr
Sykora (Pardubice player)]] (I think)?

On Apr 5, 2005 5:48 PM, Kevin Rector <krector at compco.com> wrote:
> We couldn't use "forward" and "right wing" because a right wing is a
> type of forward. Also, they are both centers (another type of forward).
>
> -Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org
> [mailto:wikien-l-bounces at Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gordon
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: English Wikipedia
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Disambiguation in the same category
>
> Well, IMDB does it as [[Petr Sykora (I)]] and [[Petr Sykora (II))]];
> their
> FAQ says that there's no hard and fast rule how they order them, but
> they
> try to use one or more of: who is most famous, who came first
> chronologically, or who is searched for more often. But in this case,
> why
> not say [[Petr Sykora (NHL forward)]] and [[Petr Sykora (NHL right
> wing]]?
>
> jpgordon


from_name: Richard Holton

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 11:40 AM, Rowan Collins <rowan.collins at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2005 3:51 PM, suresh.k.kadirvel at gsk.com
> <suresh.k.kadirvel at gsk.com> wrote:
>
> > My team is using mediawiki to create a wikipedia for our needs.
>
> First, a quick semi-pedantic note: "Wikipedia" is not a generic noun,
> it is trademark referring to a unique project; what you are setting up
> is "a wiki". See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Names (and, possibly
> become even more confused).
>
> That aside...
>
> > So, when a user navigates from one internal page to other, one or more
> > number of parameters need to be passed to the other page.
>
> If there are a fairly small number of possibilities for the parameter,
> and not too many pages that need to use it either, you could just
> create a whole set of pages, exhaustively covering all options, and
> including a template with the correct parameter. e.g.:
> [[Foo/a]] contains {{content of foo|a}}
> [[Foo/b]] contains {{content of foo|b}}
> [[Bar/a]] contains {{content of bar|a}}
> etc. Still a lot of work to create them all, obviously, so probably not helpful.
>
> > I guess, my question is how to send parameters to an internal page if its
> > not a template.
> > Is there any methodology to implement that ?
>
> There's nothing really resembling that in MediaWiki, that I can think
> of. In general web terms, the obvious solution would be to tack
> parameters onto the URL, like "&param1=foo&param2=bar". The only kind
> of page that can have magic parameters like that in MediaWiki are
> "Special pages" - things like [[Special:Search]],
> [[Special:Contributions]], [[Special:Recentchanges]], etc, which are
> actually each a separate PHP class (dig through the code for how to
> create one). These are really designed to be for completely dynamic
> content, but depending what it is exactly you're trying to achieve,
> you might be able to use one to stuff variables into an otherwise
> static piece of content.
>
> Thinking about it, you could even create a special page which took as
> an argument the "template" page to stuff - as in
> ...title=Special:Stuffvariables&target=Page_with_variables_on&var1=foo&var2=bar.
> One key trick is that links to special pages can be made with internal
> syntax in the style [[Special:<pagename>/<param>]]; they don't,
> however, get any kind of existence check, so you'd get blue links even
> if you misspelled the target page's name.
>
> Another approach that occurred to me is to look at where the user has
> just been - either through the somewhat unreliable "referer" [sic]
> information, or using some kind of cookie-based tracking system - and
> then work out what the appropriate params would have been (might be
> doable if all you needed was the title of the last page visited, say,
> or something easily retrievable based on that). In terms of
> implementing something like that, it might be worth checking out the
> "bread crumbs" extension somebody's implemented at
> http://public.kitware.com/Wiki/User:Barre/Extensions/kw_bread_crumbs.
> A word of warning with that approach though - beware MediaWiki's
> internal parser caching!
>
> I hope these somewhat rambling thoughts are of some use - obviously,
> it all depends what the exact effect you're trying to create is, and
> how much coding you are prepared to do to make it happen...
>

You also might want to take a look at category pages
(categorypage.php), which is a page with combined content: the top
part of the page is a standard page like any article page, the bottom
part is a dynamic list generated at the time the page is rendered. In
categories with many entries, there is the option to move forward and
back through the list. This is accomplished using the URL arguments
that Rowan mentioned.

The CategoryPage class is derived from the standard article type. Note
however that the parameters have no affect on the standard part of the
page, only on the dynamically generated category lists.

-- Rich Holton

en.wikipedia:User:Rholton


from_name: SirJective

subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: DB upload trouble

body:
Nicolay A. Vasiliev wrote:
> I meant the DB dump of WikiPedia
>
>> This list is about issues relating to the English Wikipedia. You want
>> MediaWiki-l: <http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l>
>>

Hello Nicolay,

you need to change your MySQL settings. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_dump_import_problems

SirJective


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Juriwiki-l

body:
Jean-Baptiste Soufron a ?crit:
>>
>>> Only a limited number of people will receive the mails.
>>> The recipiendaries will be
>>> * the members of the WMF board (so, for now, Jimbo, Angela, Anthere,
>>> * Tim and Michael) the presidents of local associations (currently,
>>> * Ryo for the french board and Kurt for the german board) Legal
>>> * advisors. For now, three have agreed to join, Soufron, Aurevilly
>>> * and Micha?l Snow. Others have been contacted but have not answered
>>> * yet. Others might be soon contacted.
>>
>>
>>
>> To be clear about this, we don't want this to be a general discussion
>> list but the exact parameters of who should be on it is somewhat
>> flexible.  We seek participation from lawyers and from people directly
>> and officially involved in legal issues with the local associations.
>
>
> That's exactly it.
>
> Plus, everybody can send emails...

I have actually been wondering if you guys could not write down a bit
about your background ? Not sure all of you would agree to do this though.

If you do, we could put that on wmf.

Ant


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Juriwiki-l


from_name: Bishonen

body:
Kevin Rector wrote on 2005/04/05 18:26:

> I need some advice. What should I do when there are two people in the
> same category with the same name? For instance, if there were two people
> name Joe Blow and one was a soldier and one an author I could do
> something like this: Joe Blow (author)|]] and [[Joe Blow (soldier)|]].
> But what do I do if they are the same thing.
>
> Here's a real world example, there are two ice hockey players named Petr
> Sykora. They are both Czech, both have played in the NHL and both are
> notable enough for an article. Do I make the most notable (he already
> has an article) [[Petr Sykora]] and the less notable [[Petr Sykora
> (2)]]? If not, how do I handle this? Thanks.
>
> -Kevin Rector

Wiki precedent seems to leave you a pretty free choice. The two authors
named Samuel Butler are disambiguated like this:

[[Samuel Butler (1612-1680)]]
[[Samuel Butler (1835-1902)]]

But the two poets James Thomson like this, using respectively a principal
work and a pseudonym:

[[James Thomson (Seasons)]]
[[James Thomson (B.V.)]]

All four of them are quite notable. Either of these systems seems
acceptable (I don't much like your 1 and 2 idea), even though the Thomson
principle is kind of ad hoc. If you go with the Butler principle, assuming
that your players are still alive, I suggest the format

[[Petr Sykora (b. 1980)]]

Bishonen


subject: [Wikitech-l] Page Monitoring

body:
On Apr 5, 2005 8:40 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> What if the article is not on #enrc.wikipedia channel ?? It is funny
> that it is often assumed that there is only wikipedia :) and therefore
> as now only one channel ..

Actually, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_channels lists 13 recent
changes channels; I've no idea if that is up-to-date, so there may be
less, or even more, but it's certainly not true that there is only
one.

Obviously, if it's somebody else running a MediaWiki, they'll need to
be running their own IRC bot, but that's perfectly possible (the bot,
IIRC, is in the MediaWiki CVS repository).

--
Rowan Collins BSc
[IMSoP]


subject: [Wikitech-l] Public test wiki site

body:
On Mar 19, 2005 10:33 PM, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> I'm planning to set up a 1.5 test wiki on my personal site soon. I took
> down the old test.wikipedia.org because we've had a history of having
> what are in fact security holes checked in on the dev branch and not
> noticed for a while, and I really don't want that running on our
> production servers at this stage.

Brion: Are you still planning to do this? When?

To download from CVS and set stuff up is a lot of effort just to see
what's new. Of course, if somebody could *tell* me, or link to an
appropriate Bugzilla query or log, that would be good too.


from_name: Daniel Wunsch

subject: [Wikitech-l] Page Monitoring

body:
On Monday 04 April 2005 22:34, Minty wrote:
> >From the Dept. of Dreams:
>
> What I would really like is to be able to "subscribe" to a specific
> Wikipedia article and be notified **in a manner of my choosing** when
> updates occur.
>
> via Bloglines, another RSS/news reader, via email or an IM / irc msg,
> etc...

this is easy:

you just need a very small IRC-bot that listens to the bots
posting changes in #enrc.wikipedia channel at freenode.

such a bot can do whatever you want it to do - send you
emails, notify you via IRC, serve HTML for your browser,
"auralize" changes to certain pages with samples of bird
voices..

daniel


from_name: Gerard Meijssen

subject: [Wikitech-l] Page Monitoring

body:
Daniel Wunsch wrote:

>On Monday 04 April 2005 22:34, Minty wrote:
>
>
>>>From the Dept. of Dreams:
>>
>>What I would really like is to be able to "subscribe" to a specific
>>Wikipedia article and be notified **in a manner of my choosing** when
>>updates occur.
>>
>>via Bloglines, another RSS/news reader, via email or an IM / irc msg,
>>etc...
>>
>>
>
>this is easy:
>
>you just need a very small IRC-bot that listens to the bots
>posting changes in #enrc.wikipedia channel at freenode.
>
>such a bot can do whatever you want it to do - send you
>emails, notify you via IRC, serve HTML for your browser,
>"auralize" changes to certain pages with samples of bird
>voices..
>
>daniel
>
Hoi,
What if the article is not on #enrc.wikipedia channel ?? It is funny
that it is often assumed that there is only wikipedia :) and therefore
as now only one channel ..
Thanks,
    GerardM


from_name: Lars Aronsson

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to configure synchronization of 2 instances of
	mediawiki

body:
Laurent CHASTEL wrote:
> We have now a new office in another country. We have a VPN between the 2
> locations but the bandwith is to small. [...]
>
> I would like to have 2 instances of mediawiki on 2 servers, to synchronize
> them and to allow users to make modification on both instances.

No, you don't.  What you want is more bandwidth between the two sites.
It will be a lot cheaper than implementing the synchronization.

--
  Lars Aronsson (lars at aronsson.se)
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se


from_name: MacGyverMagic/Mgm

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
Well it would sure be funny, but it would indeed be counterproductive.
What would people like Quadell be doing on such a day?

Mgm

On Apr 5, 2005 8:44 PM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
> If you make that kind of announcement a few days before April 1 it's
> bound to be counterproductive.  Many who had not paid attention to the
> fact that April Fools Day was coming up will be reminded that it is time
> to do something silly.
>
> Ec
>
> mbecker ? wrote:
>
> >How about next year, we put an announcement on the main page stating
> >Wikipedia is now removing all potentially offensive images, and then
> >change the mediawiki code so that it will not render images! :)
> >
> >On Apr 4, 2005 9:37 AM, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ok, I think next year we should not tolerate what went on this year.
> >>But we should try to do something fun.
> >>
> >>Of all the ideas that I saw proposed, I think that the absolute best
> >>compromise between those who love the holiday and those who are not
> >>great fans of it would be to have the main page be 100% real and
> >>accurate in every last respect, but *also* to have it be filled with
> >>stories that people would naturally suspect to be hoaxes.
> >>
> >>[[Exploding whale]] is a nice example, as is [[Holy prepuce]] (which
> >>was a real featured article already).
> >>
> >>Here's what I like about this compromise: first, it satisfies those of
> >>us who understand that Wikipedia is first and foremost a serious
> >>encyclopedia.  Second, it satisfies those who want to have fun
> >>tricking people on April 1st.
> >>
> >>And finally, and most important, it appeals to all of us on both sides
> >>of the debate who are intellectual snobs. :-) Any lame website can
> >>come up with fake stories *yawn* to trick people *yawn*.  Only we
> >>ubergeeks of Wikipedia can come up with *real* stories to trick
> >>people.
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: eric poscher

body:
Hi,
I'm new to the list so I'd like use the occasion of this first post to
the list to say
hello to everyone and many thanks to the developers of the software!
(which I'm also using for my http://upcycling.org project.)

To answer the question, how to visualize wikipedia, the first qu. that
comes to my mind is the following:     What does Wikipedia consist of?

First, someone might think of Software and Hardware: Computers, cables,
etc..
I think Users and Content are the most important thing in a social context.

What was first? The Hen or the egg ?? The easy answer might be:
the GFDL and the idea for Wiki Software :)

As I mentioned on my userpage http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Epic
would be to visualize the Users Trust Network with a tool like graphviz.
Unfortunately I haven't got the knowhow for this task. to get the data
out of the specific userpages into graphviz syntax.
It would probably need some advanced SQL querying knowhow, while I can
only look at sql syntax and try to understand what was going on.

This would show a lot of names of wikipedia Users and their expressed
Trust amongst each other. Maybe it would show different groups of users
who work together more often etc..

Another approach would be to pick a specific subject and visualize
articles related to each other and Users related to Articles they've
contributed to.

Hope my ideas might be useful to anyone,
Eric.

--
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|       eric.poscher       |         ..:: http://upcycling.org ::..         |
|          @epe.at         |       ??::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::??       |
|                          |         ??::Einf?lle statt Abf?lle::??         |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'


from_name: Minty

subject: [Wikitech-l] Page Monitoring

body:
It occured to me that polling Recent Changes, based on the time since
last polling is maybe another solution to this.

What I like about this is that, if it was implemented:

- It would automatically work for *any* MediaWiki installation
- It would not be hard to add support for other wiki implementations
- It's entirely external to MediaWiki (no code changes) and should be
fairly low-impact (poll once per hour?)

You are then free to offer a variety of services to an unlimited number of users

- email on each edit
- email no more than once per hour/day/week/month
- email after 5 (or more) edits
- sms / text to mobile/cell phone [1]
- IM / irc of any variety
- update rss feed

[1] In the UK you can do reverse billing, which means WP could earn
money when WP sends an SMS to someone, assuming the someone has signed
up for this service.  I suggest this would be a way to raise revenues
for WP and could be run as an entirely independent project.


from_name: Laurent CHASTEL

subject:
[Wikitech-l] How to configure synchronization of 2 instances
	ofmediawiki

body:
>From: Lars Aronsson <lars at aronsson.se>
>Laurent CHASTEL wrote:
> > We have now a new office in another country. We have a VPN between the 2
> > locations but the bandwith is to small. [...]
> >
> > I would like to have 2 instances of mediawiki on 2 servers, to
>synchronize
> > them and to allow users to make modification on both instances.
>
>No, you don't.  What you want is more bandwidth between the two sites.
>It will be a lot cheaper than implementing the synchronization.
>

Except if the new site is in a country where bandwidth is expensive ;)
Thank all for help, I will try to ask for more bandwidth.

Regards,
Laurent


from_name: David Gerard

subject: [WikiEN-l] April Fool's Day next year

body:
Tony Sidaway (minorityreport at bluebottle.com) [050405 22:31]:
> Daniel Mayer said:

> > I also recycled a proposal that 'Did you know...?' could be used to
> > list odd and surprising facts for that day from our growing list of
> > unusual articles.

> As long as whatever you're doing doesn't kill the kind of spontaneity that
> had the toilet roll holder article on the main page, I don't mind.
> Everybody I showed it to loved it.  Even people who wouldn't normally be
> interested in Wikipedia thought it was a really well written bit of
> nonsense.

Yes. All those who said this would lessen Wikipedia's reputation - is there
any evidence of such, e.g. in press, blogs even?

- d.


from_name: Daniel Mayer

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reliable, selectable content

body:
--- "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com> wrote:
> Imagine a poor country with a non-democratic government. They want to
> educate their people, but they are unwilling to tolerate some small
> number of ideas. Should we make it DIFFICULT or EASY for them to select
> a subset of articles for an Encyclopedia of Lessitania?

It should be easy, yes. Wikibooks badly needs an ?export this book? feature.
Being able to export based on category would solve the Wikibooks issue and the
one you speak of. Of course, saying that is much easier than doing it. :)

-- mav

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


from_name: Poor, Edmund W

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reliable, selectable content

body:
Tom Haws wrote:

> I think if Wikipedia could provide reliable, selectable
> content, that humanitarian organizations like Care For Life could
> creatively solve the problem of distribution.

We don't want forks. But our READERS often want a subset of our
material. We established our web sites and our community to provide
reliable FREE material for everyone in the world. (Remember, the choice
of Wiki software was only a means to an end; a means that has served us
amazingly well, but only a means: not the end itself.)

Our web sites will ALWAYS contain the full set of articles. So the
articles on diverse sexual practices (copiously illustrated) will
forever be safe from censorship. But not all our readers want to see the
full set. They'll settle for the 99.9% that helps them fulfill their
goals.

Poor schools in Africa: MUST they agree to accept articles about
(largely Western) notions like [[autofellatio]] (with helpful images
showing you how to try this yourself)?

Did we create Wikipedia, only on the CONDITION that everyone who uses it
read (or at least receive) every article we write?

There's a web site that copies all our geographical articles. Call it
"censorship" or "editorial decisions", if those terms motivate you, but
from Uncle Ed's POV they are merely CHOOSING what is important to them
and disregarding the rest.

I'm sure somebody will decide to choose ONLY the sexological articles
for a free Encyclopedia of Sex. I bet NOBODY at Wikipedia will accuse
them of "censorship" for leaving out global warming or tsunami relief.
They wouldn't think of it; they'd be gushing about intellectual freedom
and so on.

THEREFORE, I propose that we adopt as quickly as possible a system that
lets readers and/or publishers easily identify articles that they want
to include or exclude. I know Magnus has done a lot of work on this, and
I hope he will continue.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a category page that lists "all sex-related
topics" or "all articles chosen for WikiDVD 1.0" or "articles selected
by the GeoWorld project"?

Imagine a poor country with a non-democratic government. They want to
educate their people, but they are unwilling to tolerate some small
number of ideas. Should we make it DIFFICULT or EASY for them to select
a subset of articles for an Encyclopedia of Lessitania?

Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed


body:
wiki pedista (wikipedista at yahoo.com) [050406 10:28]:

> In a discussion back in 2002 (starting about here
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia/2002-August/021718.html
> )
> It was decided that the acknowledgment for the use of
> FOLDOC material would be on the same page. I have seen
> that said mentions still exist, with the use of a
> template. Now the questions.
> *Is this a legal requirement that comes from some
> interpretation of our venerable GFDL or just courtesy?

Courtesy, GFDL consideration, and citing sources. We do a similar thing for
SourceWatch material.

- d.


from_name: Yann Forget

subject: [Wikitech-l] Congratulations from a French user

body:
Hi,

This is not so common, so I thonk it worthwhile to copy it here.?;oP
(from the French "Bistro").

Yann

Il y a quelques temps, nous rallions tous ? propos de la lenteur et des
interruptions de la wikip?dia. Or depuis, celle-ci semble fonctionner ?
merveille (en tout cas pour moi). Je tiens donc pour une fois ? f?liciter
tous les administrateurs (informatique, s'entend) qui travaillent dans
l?ombre et que l?on ne remarque que quand cela ne marche pas. Bravo et bon
courage. Gadjou 5 avr 2005 ? 15:55 (CEST)

--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop?die libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux


from_name: Nicolay A. Vasiliev

subject: [WikiEN-l] DB upload trouble

body:
Hi!

They kicked me to WikiTech

Faraaz Damji wrote:

>mediawiki-l would probably still be a better place to ask.  This is
>about issues pertaining to the english wikipedia, and people here aren't
>necessarily familiar with the software that keeps it running.  Pretty
>much only the developers will be experienced in running mediawiki, and
>they'll all be hanging around that mailing list.
>
>You can also try #mediawiki on irc.freenode.net
>
>


from_name: David Monniaux

body:
Yann Forget wrote:

>Hi,
>
>This is not so common, so I thonk it worthwhile to copy it here. ;oP
>(from the French "Bistro").
>
>Yann
>
>Il y a quelques temps, nous rallions tous ? propos de la lenteur et des
>interruptions de la wikip?dia. Or depuis, celle-ci semble fonctionner ?
>merveille (en tout cas pour moi). Je tiens donc pour une fois ? f?liciter
>tous les administrateurs (informatique, s'entend) qui travaillent dans
>l?ombre et que l?on ne remarque que quand cela ne marche pas. Bravo et bon
>courage. Gadjou 5 avr 2005 ? 15:55 (CEST)
>
>
"Some while ago, we all railed against the slowness and the
interruptions of Wikipedia. However, these days it seems to work
perfectly (at least for me). This time, I thus wish to thank all
administrators (computer-wise) who work out of the limelight and who are
only noticed when things do not work. Kudos and keep on the good job."


from_name: The Cunctator

body:
On 4/6/05 4:55 AM, "David Monniaux" <David.Monniaux at ens.fr> wrote:

> Yann Forget wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is not so common, so I thonk it worthwhile to copy it here. ;oP
>> (from the French "Bistro").
>>
>> Yann
>>
>> Il y a quelques temps, nous rallions tous ? propos de la lenteur et des
>> interruptions de la wikip?dia. Or depuis, celle-ci semble fonctionner ?
>> merveille (en tout cas pour moi). Je tiens donc pour une fois ? f?liciter
>> tous les administrateurs (informatique, s'entend) qui travaillent dans
>> l?ombre et que l?on ne remarque que quand cela ne marche pas. Bravo et bon
>> courage. Gadjou 5 avr 2005 ? 15:55 (CEST)
>>
>>
> "Some while ago, we all railed against the slowness and the
> interruptions of Wikipedia. However, these days it seems to work
> perfectly (at least for me). This time, I thus wish to thank all
> administrators (computer-wise) who work out of the limelight and who are
> only noticed when things do not work. Kudos and keep on the good job."

I like translating "qui travaillent dans l'ombre" as "who toil in the
shadows".


from_name: Richard Holton

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reliable, selectable content

body:
On Apr 6, 2005 11:29 AM, Daniel Mayer <maveric149 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- "Poor, Edmund W" <Edmund.W.Poor at abc.com> wrote:
> > Imagine a poor country with a non-democratic government. They want to
> > educate their people, but they are unwilling to tolerate some small
> > number of ideas. Should we make it DIFFICULT or EASY for them to select
> > a subset of articles for an Encyclopedia of Lessitania?
>
> It should be easy, yes. Wikibooks badly needs an 'export this book' feature.
> Being able to export based on category would solve the Wikibooks issue and the
> one you speak of. Of course, saying that is much easier than doing it. :)
>
> -- mav
>

"Export by category" would go a long way, and shouldn't present too
many technical issues (it would have to be off-line or a low-priority
query). Where things get a bit messy is handling transclusions
(templates, etc.). I suppose any page transcluded into one page in the
category specified would be exported as well.

A very similar issue has also be brought up: transporting all or part
of the help: namespace from one mediawiki installation to another.
Seems like many of the same issues will come up.

Some other related questions come to mind:
* What about somehow tagging specific versions of files to be
exported. The print version would probably need this functionality,
but perhaps we should look at a more general implementation.

*If we think about an "export category" capability, what about "export
all but category(ies)" capability? Seems like a natural step.

* Will we end up with the same claims of censorship as soon as someone
starts designing categories to facilitate a particular distributor's
needs?

-- Rich Holton

en.wikipedia:User:Rholton


from_name: Tom Haws

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reliable, selectable content

body:
Delirium wrote:

> Indeed, I would oppose hosting such a project on our servers, since
> "satisfying the political concerns of the government of Lessitania"
> isn't part of our mission.

Pragmatically speaking, even if we do "aim to please" by providing
reliable, selectable content, we need to focus our resources on
providing the most globally useful tags.  Thus, even without resorting
to philosphical arguments (mission), it is obvious to us that the
special needs of "Lessitania" are beyond the scope of our resources.

In other words, we aren't willing to mobilize the global Wikipedia
community to address the special selectability needs of "Lessitania".
But we might be convinced to mobilize for the most generally pressing
selectability needs.

Tom Haws


from_name: Denis Howe

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: FOLDOC, acknowledgments and GFDL

body:
wiki pedista <wikipedista at ...> writes:

> In a discussion back in 2002 (starting about here
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia/2002-August/021718.html
> )
> It was decided that the acknowledgment for the use of
> FOLDOC material would be on the same page.  I have seen
> that said mentions still exist, with the use of a template.

Thanks for pointing that out.  It wish someone had included me in the discussion
at the time.

> Is this a legal requirement that comes from some
> interpretation of our venerable GFDL or just courtesy?

Courtesy.  I am happy for FOLDOC content to be used in any way whatsoever in
Wikipedia and have modified the FOLDOC copyright in response to requests from
wikipedians.

> In either case, do the rights to modify our material
> include the right of moving that notice to a less
> prominent place, or removing it altogether?

I am very happy to have any kind of acknowledgement or back link on FOLDOC based
articles in Wikipedia.  I would be almost as happy just to have a single
acknowledgement on some suitable global page.  I would not be at all happy to
have no acknowledgement at all but I'd just cry quietly to myself at night about
it. :-)

> Can we assure that our re-users would keep [credits for sources]?

Of course not, but Wikipedia should Do The Right Thing anyway.

Denis Howe
FOLDOC Editor-in-Chief


from_name: Jean-Baptiste Soufron

subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Juriwiki-l

body:
Let's keep it short.

As for myself I am Jean-Baptiste Soufron, a legal advisor specialized
in IP and contracts, I worked in France and in Japan but I am currently
working on my PhD at Paris 2 University with a scholarship from the
CNRS.

I participate to many projects like jiraf (http://www.jiraf.org),
audionautes (http://www.audionautes.net), creative commons, etc. You
can have a look at my blog, with a few thoughts regarding wikipedia :

http://soufron.free.fr

Of course, I am available all day long on #wikipedia to troll and
answer legal questions.

Thanks,

Jean-Baptiste Soufron

Le 5 avr. 05, ? 20:00, Anthere a ?crit :

>
>
> Jean-Baptiste Soufron a ?crit:
>>>
>>>> Only a limited number of people will receive the mails.
>>>> The recipiendaries will be
>>>> * the members of the WMF board (so, for now, Jimbo, Angela, Anthere,
>>>> * Tim and Michael) the presidents of local associations (currently,
>>>> * Ryo for the french board and Kurt for the german board) Legal
>>>> * advisors. For now, three have agreed to join, Soufron, Aurevilly
>>>> * and Micha?l Snow. Others have been contacted but have not answered
>>>> * yet. Others might be soon contacted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To be clear about this, we don't want this to be a general discussion
>>> list but the exact parameters of who should be on it is somewhat
>>> flexible.  We seek participation from lawyers and from people
>>> directly
>>> and officially involved in legal issues with the local associations.
>> That's exactly it.
>> Plus, everybody can send emails...
>
>
> I have actually been wondering if you guys could not write down a bit
> about your background ? Not sure all of you would agree to do this
> though.
>
> If you do, we could put that on wmf.
>
> Ant
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


subject: [Foundation-l] Re: Juriwiki-l


from_name: Delirium

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reliable, selectable content

body:
Poor, Edmund W wrote:

>Imagine a poor country with a non-democratic government. They want to
>educate their people, but they are unwilling to tolerate some small
>number of ideas. Should we make it DIFFICULT or EASY for them to select
>a subset of articles for an Encyclopedia of Lessitania?
>
>
The GFDL makes it perfectly legal for anyone to do whatever they want
with all or part of the articles (besides take them proprietary).  So
the government of Lessitania is free to distribute Wikipedia with all
the articles that speak critically of their leaders removed or
sanitized.  That doesn't mean that the Wikimedia Foundation ought to set
up a special version of the encyclopedia where we ourselves cull and
censor the articles to cater to the whims of the government of
Lessitania.  Indeed, I would oppose hosting such a project on our
servers, since "satisfying the political concerns of the government of
Lessitania" isn't part of our mission.

-Mark


subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Reliable, selectable content

body:
David 'DJ' Hedley wrote:

>I suggested a 'mature content' notice previously in the chat room, but it
>was dismissed by those in there.
>
>
Subjective labels like "mature" are problematic.  Are you familiar with
the ICRA content labelling guidelines?  They are straightforward,
objective labels aimed at allowing providers to select.

ICRA's slogan is "Choice, not censorship"

http://www.icra.org/vocabulary/

Here is an example.  I think the Context bit is too subjective, but we
could simply implement ICRA tags:

*Nudity and sexual material*   [Help <http://www.icra.org/vocabulary/#hn>]

    * Erections and female genitals in details
    * Male genitals
    * Female genitals
    * Female breasts
    * Bare buttocks
    * Explicit sexual acts
    * Obscured or implied sexual acts
    * Visible sexual touching
    * Passionate kissing
    * None of the above

      *Context: this material...* [Help
    * <http://www.icra.org/vocabulary/#hcontext>] appears in an artistic
      context and is suitable for young children
    * appears in an educational context and is suitable for young children
    * appears in a medical context and is suitable for young children


from_name: Walter van Kalken

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:

>Are you kidding? "Ad"? That has to be the easiest Dutch name in the
>world. "Huikeshoven" I admit I don't know how you would pronounce it,
>but I would go for /heIksofn/
>
>
>
He said try to pronounce it "correctly". If you pronounce it any
anglophile would try to pronounce it .... it would be wrong.

Walter


from_name: Anthere

body:
Poor, Edmund W a ?crit:
> Tom Haws wrote:
>
>
>>I think if Wikipedia could provide reliable, selectable
>>content, that humanitarian organizations like Care For Life could
>>creatively solve the problem of distribution.
>
>
> We don't want forks. But our READERS often want a subset of our
> material. We established our web sites and our community to provide
> reliable FREE material for everyone in the world. (Remember, the choice
> of Wiki software was only a means to an end; a means that has served us
> amazingly well, but only a means: not the end itself.)
>
> Our web sites will ALWAYS contain the full set of articles. So the
> articles on diverse sexual practices (copiously illustrated) will
> forever be safe from censorship. But not all our readers want to see the
> full set. They'll settle for the 99.9% that helps them fulfill their
> goals.
>
> Poor schools in Africa: MUST they agree to accept articles about
> (largely Western) notions like [[autofellatio]] (with helpful images
> showing you how to try this yourself)?
>
> Did we create Wikipedia, only on the CONDITION that everyone who uses it
> read (or at least receive) every article we write?
>
> There's a web site that copies all our geographical articles. Call it
> "censorship" or "editorial decisions", if those terms motivate you, but
> from Uncle Ed's POV they are merely CHOOSING what is important to them
> and disregarding the rest.
>
> I'm sure somebody will decide to choose ONLY the sexological articles
> for a free Encyclopedia of Sex. I bet NOBODY at Wikipedia will accuse
> them of "censorship" for leaving out global warming or tsunami relief.
> They wouldn't think of it; they'd be gushing about intellectual freedom
> and so on.
>
> THEREFORE, I propose that we adopt as quickly as possible a system that
> lets readers and/or publishers easily identify articles that they want
> to include or exclude. I know Magnus has done a lot of work on this, and
> I hope he will continue.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a category page that lists "all sex-related
> topics" or "all articles chosen for WikiDVD 1.0" or "articles selected
> by the GeoWorld project"?
>
> Imagine a poor country with a non-democratic government. They want to
> educate their people, but they are unwilling to tolerate some small
> number of ideas. Should we make it DIFFICULT or EASY for them to select
> a subset of articles for an Encyclopedia of Lessitania?
>
> Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed

Nod.

Fully agree with you Ed.

It all depends on who we consider our audience is.
Our editorial rules should be different when we consider our primary
audience is the reader... or if it is a distributor...

If we aim directly to our reader, our editorial policies should be more
stringent, and more adapted to local specificities. If the audience is a
redistributor who will only publish a selection of our content, we could
provide him with means to more quickly adjust to which content he is
looking for.

ant


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject: [Wikitech-l] dumps

body:
John Fader wrote:
> I took a brief look at the cur en.wikipedia dump, and it would appear
> that it's uncompressed, unlike the old versions which were bzip2
> compressed. As the latter format seems to be around 70% of the size of
> the uncompressed, shouldn't the new download page offer compressed
> versions?

The new dumps are compressed with gzip as it's faster than bzip2 (though
bzip2 compresses better).

Your browser might be uncompressing it for you (naughty browser!)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Tony Sidaway

body:
The Cunctator said:
>
> I like translating "qui travaillent dans l'ombre" as "who toil in the
> shadows".
>

Oh great, how about a round of cheers for the morlocks? :)


from_name: Mark Williamson

body:
Of course. But even with no training in Dutch, it's easy to guess that
the proper pronunciation is somewhat like an Englishman's
pronunciation of "ard".

Few languages written in the Roman alphabet use "a"  for an /e/ sound
or an /A/ sound.

Mark

On Apr 6, 2005 2:12 AM, Walter van Kalken <walter at vankalken.net> wrote:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
>
> >Are you kidding? "Ad"? That has to be the easiest Dutch name in the
> >world. "Huikeshoven" I admit I don't know how you would pronounce it,
> >but I would go for /heIksofn/
> >
> >
> >
> He said try to pronounce it "correctly". If you pronounce it any
> anglophile would try to pronounce it .... it would be wrong.
>
> Walter
>


from_name: Daniel Wunsch

body:
On Tuesday 05 April 2005 23:03, eric poscher wrote:

> As I mentioned on my userpage http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Epic
> would be to visualize the Users Trust Network with a tool like graphviz.
> Unfortunately I haven't got the knowhow for this task. to get the data
> out of the specific userpages into graphviz syntax.

i did write a little program doing this. it's written in beanshell and
atm uses the prefuse toolkit to display and navigate the graph. it
 accesses a mediawiki server via HTTP, so no database access
is necessary.

before using prefuse i compiled the graph into a dot-file, but
graphviz  (and the jung library, too) seem to be not very good at
rendering large graphs like this.

up to now only the "Vertrauensnetz" on the german wp is
supported. in case someone is interested, just drop me a mail
and i'll put the sources online.

daniel


from_name: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

subject: [Wikitech-l] Public test wiki site

body:
> To download from CVS and set stuff up is a lot of effort just to see
> what's new. Of course, if somebody could *tell* me, or link to an
> appropriate Bugzilla query or log, that would be good too.

You could read this:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/wikipedia/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES?rev=HEAD


subject: [Wikitech-l] dumps

body:
John Fader wrote:
> On Apr 7, 2005 12:53 AM, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
>>Your browser might be uncompressing it for you (naughty browser!)
>
>
> Hmm, the content-type setting is somewhat suboptimal -
>
> dumps.wikimedia.org  sends:
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>   Content-Encoding: gzip

Bleaaaaaaah. Ok, that's wrong. In that case it's correct for your
browser to decompress the stuff, but, um, it shouldn't be doing that. :D

Domas seems to be experimenting with thttpd for that server, so I'll let
him reconfigure it when he's awake again.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: slimvirgin at gmail.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Gomery Inquiry

body:
Legally, Wikipedia as publisher is beyond the scope of the Canadian
Criminal Code, because its servers are not in Canada. However, each
editor is legally responsible for what they write, and if they are in
Canada could in principle be sued or prosecuted as author of the
material, and perhaps as publisher too, as this is a wiki. (Note: This
is not legal advice.)

However, if the publication ban is being adhered to by others, it may
mean that there is no published information that Wikipedia could refer
to anyway, bearing in mind the NOR policy.

Sarah

On Apr 6, 2005 8:46 PM, AndyL <andyl2004 at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> How should Wikipedia deal with the publication ban regarding the Gomery
> Inquiry in Canada?
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>