from_name: Samuel Klein

subject: [Foundation-l] Fw: [SLA-SF] Save EPA Libraries!

body:
There has been talk on this list about how to spend money relicensing
copyrighted materials under a free license.

Access and true freedom of information requires more than a free license.
It requires transparent and effective indexing, physical access to
original sources, classification and other infrastructure.

I mentioned the EPA library catastrophe -- a slow breakdown of one of our
truly free library and archival institutions -- earlier this year.
http://www.aibs.org/public-policy-reports/2006_09_25.html#002482

An update follows.  Please contact your Senators by the end of the
month to ask them to support the Boxer-Lautenberg letter.

--SJ

http://www.ala.org/ala/washoff/washnews/news.htm

> American Library Association Washington Office Newsline
> ALAWON Volume 15, Number 115 DATE : October 26, 2006
> ________________________________
> Save EPA Libraries!
> ________________________________
> CALL BOTH OF YOUR SENATORS IMMEDIATELY AND ASK THEM TO SIGN ONTO the
> Boxer- Lautenberg "Dear Colleague" letter asking the Senate Appropriations
> Committee to direct EPA to maintain access and research expertise at ALL
> of EPA's regional and headquarter libraries until the Agency solicits
> adequate public and Congressional input.
>
> Background:
<
> Senators Barbara Boxer and Frank Lautenberg have drafted a letter to the
> Senate Appropriations Committee stating their concern that EPA is dismantling
> their unique library system (see below).
<
> As you know, the government, business and the general public depend on
> EPA's libraries to conduct research critical to protecting public health,
> enforcing environmental laws, and promoting sound economic, land-use planning
> and other decisions.   Closure of these facilities will
> severely limit, and in some cases eliminate, the information resources needed
> by those investigating issues critical to environmental safety and health.
> Although EPA's FY2007 budget hasn't been passed yet, this year EPA has
> already eliminated or reduced library service covering 31 states (see
> list below below ).
>
> ACTION
<
> CALL BOTH OF YOUR SENATORS TODAY AND ASK THEM TO SIGN ONTO
< the Boxer-Lautenberg "Dear Colleague" letter!  The letter asks the
< Appropriators to direct EPA to maintain access and research expertise
< at all of EPA's regional and headquarter libraries until the Agency
< solicits adequate public and Congressional input.
<
> The deadline for signing the letter is November 1st, so call today! Tell
>
> your Senator's Office that they can arrange to sign the letter by
> calling Grant Cope (4-7931) or Daniel Rosenberg (4-7225) and that they must
> do so before November 1st.
>
> Letter to Senate Appropriations Committee:
>
> October 26, 2006
>
> Honorable Thad Cochran, Chair Appropriations Committee U.S. Senate
> Honorable Conrad Burns, Chair Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on
> Interior and Related Agencies U.S. Senate Honorable Robert C. Byrd, Ranking
> Member Appropriations Committee U.S. Senate
> Honorable Byron Dorgan, Ranking Member Appropriations Committee Subcommittee
> on Interior and Related Agencies U.S. Senate
>
> Dear Colleague:
>       We are writing to request that you direct the Environmental Protection
> Agency (EPA) to restore and maintain public access and onsite
>
> library collections and services at EPA's headquarters, regional, laboratory,
> and specialized program libraries while the Agency solicits
> and considers public input on its plan to drastically cut its library budget
> and services.  Government representatives, businesses and citizens use
> information in these libraries to protect public health, enforce
> environmental laws, and promote sound decision-making.  We are concerned
>
> that EPA is already dismantling its unique library system without
> including the public or Members of Congress in the decision-making.  Congress
> should not allow EPA to gut its library system, which plays a critical role
> in supporting the Agency's mission to protect the environment and public
> health.
> EPA has already eliminated or reduced library service to the public in
> seven EPA regions covering 31 states and is planning to close its
> Headquarters' library and maintain it only as a repository. (Attachment)  EPA
> has also
>
> closed its pesticide and toxics program library, reducing access to
> unique materials needed to assess pesticides and other chemicals' potential
> health effects on children.  EPA is implementing these devastating closures
> on the grounds that they expect to save $2 million.
<
>       EPA's libraries provide far more benefits than the minor cost
> reductions resulting from their closure.  A 2004 EPA report found that
> "[c] alculated conservatively, the benefit-to-cost ratio for EPA library
> services ranges between 2:1 and 5.7:1."  The report noted that libraries
> saved
> EPA professional staff $7.5 million and non-EPA personnel $2.8 million, in
> 2003; and that one-third of the libraries' work gave EPA $22 million in
> benefits.
>       The American Library Association, American Association of Law
> Libraries, and Special Library Association strongly oppose the cuts, pointing
> out that EPA has "unique collections, including an estimated
> 50,000 one-of-a-kind primary source documents that are available nowhere
> else."
>
> Notes provided by the American Library Association that recount a
> meeting with EPA on the library closures state that their warnings that the
> Agency should develop a new system before closing libraries "fell on deaf
> ears."  Unions representing 10,000 EPA scientists, engineers, and other staff
> have similar concerns.  They note that "[t]he ability of EPA to respond to
> emergencies will be reduced because important reference materials may be
> unavailable or take significant time to receive from storage or another
> library."
>       A document from EPA's Office of Enforcement and Compliance
> Assurance (OECA) about the library restructuring expresses concern about the
> Agency's failure to adequately assess costs and funding needs, maintain
> critical information, and ensure data accessibility.  OECA notes that the
> libraries have information important to specific regions, states and locales,
> and unique data on industrial processes and analytical methods.  OECA has
> indicated that it fears that dispersal of this material without proper
> tracking and access could undercut rulemakings and the ability to
> "substantiate and support findings, determinations, and guidance."
> We are extremely troubled that EPA is rushing to eliminate or reduce
> library operations without adequately consulting Congress or the public. We
> respectfully request that you direct EPA in the FY 2007 Interior and
> Related Agencies Appropriations Bill to restore and maintain public access
> and onsite library collections and services at EPA's headquarters, regional,
> laboratory, and specialized program libraries to the status they held as
> of January 1, 2006.  We also ask that you direct EPA to solicit and
> consider public and Congressional input, in an open process, prior to making
> any decision to close a library, cut services, or dramatically restructure
> the Agency's library system.
<
> Sincerely,
> Barbara Boxer                                           Frank R. Lautenberg
> United States Senator                                United States Senator
<
> CC:  Senator Ted Stevens Senator Arlen Specter Senator Pete Domenici Senator
> Christopher Bond Senator Mitch McConnell Senator Richard Shelby Senator Judd
> Gregg Senator Robert Bennett Senator Larry Craig Senator Kay Bailey
> Hutchinson Senator Mike DeWine Senator Sam Brownback Senator Wayne Allard
> Senator Daniel Inouye Senator Patrick Leahy Senator Tom Harkin Senator
> Barbara Mikulski Senator Harry Reid Senator Herb Kohl Senator Patty Murray
> Senator Dianne Feinstein Senator Richard Durbin Senator Tim Johnson Senator
> Mary Landrieu
>
> Status of EPA Regional Library Closures and Reductions in Service:
> (Specialized Libraries Not Included)
> 1. Closed
<  * Region 5, which served Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota,
<      Ohio, and Wisconsin.
<  * Region 6, which serves Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico,
<      Oklahoma, Texas, and Iowa.
<  * Region 7, which serves Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska.
<
> 2. Closed to the Public with Reduced Hours to EPA Staff
<  * Region 2 Library, which served New York, New Jersey, Puerto
<      Rico, and the Virgin Islands.
<
< 3. Reduced Access to EPA Staff and the Public
<  * Region 1, which serves Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine,
< New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
<  * Region 9, which serves Arizona, California, Hawaii,
< Nevada, the Pacific Islands, and Tribal Nations.
<  * Region 10, which serves Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, Washington,
< and Native Tribes.
<  * EPA Headquarters
>
> ________________________________
> <http://www.capwiz.com/ala/home>
> Click here <http://www.capwiz.com/ala/home>  or the logo above to:
> *         Jump to ALA's Legislative Action Center *         See what library
> legislation is hot *         Send a letter or fax to Congress
> U.S. Capitol switchboard 202-225-3121
>     ALAWON Editor: Andy Bridges
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, please click here
> <http://www.ala.org/ala/washoff/washnews/news.htm> .
> All materials subject to copyright by the American Library Association
> may be reprinted or redistributed for noncommercial purposes with
> appropriate credits.
> ALA Washington Office Emily Sheketoff, Executive Director 1615 New Hampshire
> Ave NW, First Floor Washington, D.C. 20009 202.628.8410 (V) 202.628.8419 (F)
> Office of Government Relations Lynne Bradley, Director; Melanie Anderson, Don
> Essex, Erin Haggerty, and Miriam Nisbet
> Office for Information Technology Policy Rick Weingarten, Director; Carrie
> Lowe, Kathy Mitchell, Carrie Russell
> _______________________________________________
> SLA-SF mailing list
> SLA-SF at isaac.exploratorium.edu
> http://www.exo.net/mailman/listinfo/sla-sf
>
>
>


list: wikimedia-l

source: pipermail-mbox


list: foundation-l

from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] Report from Frankfurt - October 2006

body:
Yeah.
I second oscar words. Next time, take the time to sleep more Oscar.

As for me, I was till yesterday evening out of my home. 8 days away. No
internet access but some "spots" in hotels. My return means saying hi to
family, cleaning up home, filling up fridge and other delicacies of the
sort :-)

There is something else Oscar does not mention. Yes, we could have
provided you with the SWOT outcome (it will be done), as well as with
the brainstorming results of the actions outlined (it will be done as
well, but for some confidential considerations).

However, several of these actions proposed during the retreat should
actually be approved by the board. Most of them are pretty clearly
agreed upon by all board members. But for some propositions, questions
were raised, not so much for the action itself, but rather on who is the
lead of it, or what the timeline proposed is.
The final decision on what the board should do is not under the
authority of the participants, it is under the authority of the board
itself. It would make no sense to announce you an action the board will
take care of, if the board actually does not agree in doing it.

Right ?

So, we are listing (we is brad and I) the various actions points
proposed, according to categories, and I will ask the board to clarify
if it is a "yup" or a "nope". Except for confidential issues (in
particular legal considerations), I think most will be transparent.

It would be cool to be given a little bit of trust and time. Please.

Ant

oscar wrote:
> you may not be aware of this, but my report is designed to be the first in a
> series of updates, designed for quick delivery and some comprehensive
> information about the retreat, details will of course follow, but not just
> by me. this takes time, people!!
>
> whatever may have happened to the "assume good faith": a critical look is
> always appreciated, but i feel like maybe next time i shouldn't sacrifice
> yet another night's sleep again, there seem to be implicit expectations in
> view of the reactions? there are however no solutions "out of a box"; it is
> a step by step process, please bear with it.
>
> best,
> oscar
>
> On 10/26/06, Erik Zachte <erikzachte at infodisiac.com> wrote:
>
>>Tomasz "Polimerek" Ganicz
>>
>>>Does it mean you have produced some sort of document with your
>>>recommendations to the Board? If yes, I think, this document, even if
>>>very long, would be much more interesting to read, than all the above
>>>general, abstract statements wich in fact says nothing...
>>
>>Oscar thank you for what you did, but in my view you did not earn your
>>right
>>to complain yet. I also would have expected a more in depth coverage of
>>such
>>a crucial meeting. To name one thing specifically: what was the outcome of
>>the SWOT analysis? I'm sure you all did not do that hard work without
>>taking
>>notes? You might include the SWOT outcome unedited, that saves time.
>>
>>
>>>I will spare you all the details
>>
>>Who are you sparing here? Might that not be yourself in the first place ;)
>>I'm sure many readers of this list would not mind an extra page or two. If
>>you can't spare the time maybe split up the work after all. It is not our
>>fault that the organiser of this event forgot to rent the Big Brother
>>house
>>for 3*24 hrs multichannel coverage ;)
>>
>>Also I find it rather odd to present a list of priorities, where again as
>>you say you all put so much effort in, in alphabetical order. It does not
>>help to give us a sense of what was going on.
>>
>>In August the board decided they needed a retreat among other things to
>>build better relations. Expensive but hey we need a board to be on good
>>terms which each other. Now this retreat grew into Wikimania 2006 part II,
>>
>>it seems.
>>
>>
>>> so let me here express the often heard plea for a next follow-up
>>
>>meeting:
>>a next step,
>>building on this first one.
>>
>>Several times in past years the topic of a wikicouncil was raised
>>(originally by Jimbo). Ironically it seems to me that we now almost got an
>>impromptu wikicouncil, without difficult discussions about size, roles and
>>representativity. Like with the board itself I fear this 'retreat' might
>>transform into something noone had foretold. Of course wikis are all about
>>being bold, yet I learned how this principle can backfire and I reserve
>>the
>>right to express my doubts.
>>
>>Erik Zachte
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>


list: commons-l

from_name: Tom M

subject:
[Commons-l] symphonic (and other) sample library was Re: Dream
	a little...

body:
> Of course, they are straight forward enough to build  that we don't
> need to ask for megafunding.

They are not 'straight forward' to build due to the technical skill
required and the technical capabilities and quality of facilities
needed to do good quality samples with consistent acoustic properties.
 Most large universities could probably do so with adequate funding.

> 1) because buying one is probably out of the question, as you pointed
> out VSL (and most other libraries) sell for absolutely insane prices.
> To buy one, we'd have to pay an amount equal to the revenue they'd
> lose, not what it cost to make one.

Agreed that 'buying one' is unlikely, at least no where near the price
for which one could be created from scratch.  I suggested that 1
million in funding might be reasonable though.  So while not
'megafunding' it is certainly beyond trivial means.

> 2) because we don't need to start out making a world class library in
> one step, and a lower quality library is very inexpensive to make...
> we already have all of the resources we need to get started at our
> disposal.

I disagree for a couple of reasons - 1) you need to use the same
recording location (the same music hall needs to be used for all
sampling recording), similar microphone positioning, very high quality
microphones (your typical home studio recording isn't going to have
microphones of adequate quality to get good samples); and highly
skilled players (the skill level of home recording artists will
generally not be adequate).  It is not something you can do in a
distributed piecemeal manner and get quality results.  Also for each
instrument you will want to do all of the recordings for it in a
single sitting so that you don't get significant differences from
things like changes in humidity, or changes in the recording
environment.  The final engineering of the sound samples can be
distributed (and since a significant chunk of the cost is the
engineering of the samples after recording, collaboration can give
good savings there).

> I think that for right now, such a project is far enough outside of
> the scope of Wikimedia that this is the wrong forum to discuss it
> (really, even the Linux-sampler mailing list would be a better place).

>From the Wikimedia statement of purpose

"The goals of the foundation are to encourage the further growth and
development of open content, social software WikiWiki-based projects
(see http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) and to provide the full
contents of those projects to the public free of charge."

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_bylaws#ARTICLE_II:_STATEMENT_OF_PURPOSE

In my opinion this is perhaps the single most significant action that
the Wikimedia Foundation could do to encourage the "further growth and
development of open content" of the musical variety and thus is right
in line with Wikimedias statement of purpose.

 Tom M.


list: wikien-l

from_name: Rich Holton

subject: [WikiEN-l] Reverting without reading - another example

body:
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> Earle Martin wrote:
>> On 27/10/06, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Why not make blank edit summaries a "warnable offense", then? It'd be
>>> essentially the same thing.
>> I was speaking in the context of software-enforced mandatory
>> summaries, which would make blank summaries impossible - certainly not
>> otherwise.
>
> But in such a system an edit summary of "." is exactly equivalent to a
> blank edit summary, so I don't see the difference.
>

The difference is that a blank edit summary can be the result of someone
not knowing/forgetting to enter a summary, whereas a "." is an
intentional act.

-Rich


subject: [Foundation-l] toward the future

body:
Dear all,

A little bit of history first :-)
When Wikipedia was created, it was supported by a
for-profit company. It was a wikipedia.com, not a
wikipedia.org. The project was small enough that it
was not so difficult to sustain it. But it became
increasingly difficult.
The Wikimedia Foundation was created in 2003 by Jimbo,
to provide a technical, financial and legal
infrastructure to our projects. It was a BIG step. It
was a deliberate move to ensure the knowledge and
wisdom of all peoples would be garanteed a nurturing
environnement to flourish for the benefits of
humanity.

I was an editor at that time, I remember very well
raising questions about the bylaws of that
yet-to-be-born Foundation, and I now realise I never
really said "thank you" to Jimbo for making that first
step to allow the child to grow up. So, thank you
Jimbo.

Today, we have reached a new step. From the baby
Foundation, where nothing existed but Jimbo's vision,
a few servers, a few domain names, growing projects
and five fresh new board members, we have evolved into
something else. The WMF owns hundred of servers, to
operate among others a website ranking amongst the 10
most visited websites in the world, many domain names,
some trademarks. We went from a few thousand dollars
revenue to over a milion dollars revenue. The
Wikimedia family also features 7 chapters. And the
world loves us (including those trying to buy usn or
those inviting us in court).

In fall 2005, we started feeling the organisation of
WMF was no more scaling to accomodate our fantastic
growth and subsequents needs. It started getting very
frustrating. We initiated a slow and sometimes painful
process which resulted in the creation of the
committees in spring 2006, continued with the addition
of an executive director and more staff to help manage
daily operations, and the decision to organise that
board retreat.

The goal of last week retreat was to discuss the
foundations of our ever growing multicultural,
multilinguistic, collaboration-based, organisation. It
was also meant to clarify the organisation mission,
identify strategic goals short and medium terms,
priorities and to make decisions of certain actions.

It is actually strange to see it compared to
Wikimania. It was so different. It was a small group
used to interact everyday on irc and mailing lists.
Not 400 people, most unknown. It was to discuss the
organisation itself. We discussed, we had dialogues, a
lot of brainstorming, made decisions (which is SO
satisfactory), a lot of body contacts (for once), some
screamed, some cried, many laughed... we tried to
lower the barriers of our inhibitions to try to "get
somewhere" together. It was nothing like Wikimania.

The dialogue revealed a very very strong consensus in
favor of reorganisation, and I am happy to say that
though we could only partially explore the field of
actions, we have in hand a very significant and useful
outcome to work upon.

The board retreat was closed by a board meeting. And
as Erik announced, during that meeting, we reshuffled
people roles. Upon Jimbo's suggestion, the board
unanimously decided that I be the chair of Wikimedia
Foundation board of trustees, Michael Davis will stay
our treasurer, Erik has agreed to be the executive
secretary, Tim the vice-chair. Jimbo will assume the
title of Chairman Emeritus of the Foundation.

This is another big step. I thank Jimbo for proposing
it, as well as thank my fellow board members for their
supportive stance. It was not an easy step to make; I
am sure you will be able to realise that. But it is a
step we collectively agreed upon, because we think the
organisation has to move on. For the best. We may
fail. Perhaps. Hopefully not :-)
But please give us time, have faith and help us.

I'd like to very shortly explain what I intend to
focus on as the new chair. My primary task will be to
(re ?)-organise the board activity (meeting, agenda,
reporting, interaction with other bodies) to ensure
the board makes its *best* to fullfil its mission
according to our commun vision.

I also intend to give much attention to the
reorganisation plan (expansion of the board,
populating the advisory board, new bylaws, new
executive director by next summer, clarification of
Foundation/chapters relationships, improvement of
committees etc...).
Not everything will be fixed before the end of my
serving term on the board (july 07) but I'll try my
best.

Last, I wish to celebrate our biggest strength,
pointed out by most, if not all, board retreat
participants: people. More particularly, thank you to
editors, committee members, developers, chapter
members, officers, staff, for giving their time,
skills and energy, not only to create content, but
also to help create a sustainable infrastructure for
our projects.

More to come...

Florence Devouard
Chair of Wikimedia Foundation board of Trustees.

<side note>"chair", not "chairperson", nor
"chairwoman" and anyone saying "chairman" will risk
being crushed by an ant</sidenote>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)


subject: [Foundation-l] toward the future


body:
I should add that i think it would be a good idea to try and get
partnerships for such an idea to help the dollars spent go further -
perhaps partner with the Carnegie Mellon Foundation or other
foundations known for their contributions to the arts, and contact
universities to see if they would be willing to contribute some
funding.

Tom M.


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Travis Derouin

subject: [Wikitech-l] broadening the scope of hooks

body:
Yeah, off the top of my head: anything to do with the UI should have a
hook, this of course is just coming from my experience with 1.6.7, who
knows, there could be tons of hooks in 1.8+. Adding links to the
navigation, toolbox, top tabs, etc, the last time I checked this
didn't seem possible. It would be great if there was a hook that was
called before a page's contents was displayed, and after, so certain
pages could be formatted, or enclosed in some HTML, without directly
modifying the skin.

Other functionality, like special pages recent changes should have
more hooks as well, making it easier to write custom filters for RC,
etc. It just seems like continously defining hooks in specific places
isn't really sustainable way of allowing developers to build add-ons,
and that another approach could be thought out.

Travis

On 10/27/06, Evan Prodromou <evan at prodromou.name> wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 11:45 -0400, Travis Derouin wrote:
> > Both seem sort of messy. Are there any plans to broaden the range of
> > hooks other than by just adding more instances of hooks?
>
> I don't think so. I don't think the idea of modifying the profile stuff
> is a good idea, since the hooks that work now take (sometimes
> modifiable) arguments, which don't get passed to the profiling commands.
>
> I'm interested in expanding the scope of hooks, so suggestions for
> places to put them are very welcome. Are there places that you think
> there should be hooks, that they don't exist?
>
> Eventually I'd like every "function point" in MediaWiki to be hookable.
> But collecting the most important actions that require hooks will
> probably be useful.
>
> --Evan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Jens Frank

subject: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia API?

body:
On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 10:20:37AM +0200, Chuck Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking of making a website next year which would need the titles
> of articles and their languages from Wikipedia on the fly (and on
> occasion grab the article too).  Is there an official Wikipedia API or
> plans to make one?  An API would also be of immense help to wiki
> researchers.

There is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php
It's self-documenting.

Regards,

	jens


from_name: James Hare

subject: [Foundation-l] Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

body:
Posting... for the first time, a note on behalf of the Chair of James Hare
(or more accurately, the man sitting on said chair):

So what exactly is the point of all this bureaucracy?

On 10/27/06, Erik Moeller <erik at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Posting separately, a personal note:
>
> I'm very glad that Anthere was unanimously elected to be the new Chair
> of the Wikimedia Foundation. Anyone who has seen and heard her speak
> at one of the Wikimania conferences (or at any other) knows that she
> can represent the Foundation with incredible passion, intelligence and
> charisma. This change of officer roles marks a significant step
> forward for Wikimedia as a non-profit governed primarily by members of
> its project communities. Nor was this in any way a move against Jimmy;
> in fact, it was him who had orchestrated the whole thing. ;-)
> --
> Peace & Love,
> Erik
>
> Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
> in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
> position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: HisWebWife at aol.com

subject:
[WikiEN-l] why would a SINGLE admin repeatedly not typically fill
	out the form?

body:
Administrator User:Kylu is at it again... blocking an IP address  without
specifying ANY user name at all.  Why is this  happening?    She blocked my edits
3 times in quick succession  yesterday, 3 time right after edits in entirely
unrelated topics, and one  time I was blocked right after she received an
email from me.

I wrote Kylu three times yesterday requesting some explanation of  why a
block should be so differently written out  than any I have ever seen  before.
Though I didn't demand to know, I DID want to know which  user had been
blocked.  I didn't understand why the vandal and harasser was  not identified by user
name.

But Kylu has refused to respond three times.

Can anyone help me understand what is going on. Below is today's  most recent
message.

A_Kiwi _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:A_Kiwi_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:A_Kiwi)

User is blocked
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Octagon-warning.svg)
Your user name or IP address has been blocked from  editing.
You were blocked by _Kylu_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu)  for the
following  reason (see our _blocking  policy_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy) ):
vandalism
Your IP address is 152.163.100.66.

CHECKING User Contributions for this IP address, one finds this -- this IP
address has not been used at all today, and there are no revisions of the
recent  edits

User contributions
For 152.163.100.66

    *   22:10, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EinsteinEdits&action=history) )  (_diff_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EinsteinEdits&diff=prev&oldid=83980421) )
_User  talk:EinsteinEdits_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:EinsteinEdits)

    *   08:46, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Kylie&action=history) )  (_diff_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Kylie&diff=prev&oldid=83840681) )  _Ultimate Kylie_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Kylie)
    *   00:50, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jan_Pronk&action=history) )  (_diff_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jan_Pronk&diff=prev&oldid=83793146) )  _Jan  Pronk_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Pronk)
    *   18:47, 25 October 2006 (_hist_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soulard,_St._Louis&action=history) )  (_diff_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soulard,_St._Louis&diff=prev&oldid=83740979) )  _Soulard, St.
Louis_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soulard,_St._Louis)  (_?_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soulard,_St._Louis#External_links) External  links)


subject:
[WikiEN-l] why would a SINGLE admin repeatedly not typically
	fill out the...

body:
VITAL UPDATE:

I just now received this message from Kylu on my Talk  Page
- it is important that I update my  prior post of confusion
Here is her response, which  I appreciated immensely.  :o)

Kylu:
Sadly, there's an editor who is trying to revert Hu12's edits  coming from
AOL, I've removed the contributions (could be why they're not  showing up) but
he keeps annoying other editors. You, however, do have my  sincere apologies
that you were affected by this. :)

Thanks for keeping a cool head about this mess. I just rather wish AOL
didn't do its little IP-hopping trick. :( ~Kylu (_u_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu) |_t_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kylu) )  21:20, 27
October 2006 (UTC)
ME TALKING AGAIN _
Checked his contributions - He was a busy toad! :o))
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hu12_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hu12)
What was upsetting to me was the offending member not being  identified.  It
is always SO calming to be able to call up the user's  contributions and SEE
FOR YOURSELF!!
A thanks to Kylu


from_name: Neil Harris

subject: [Wikitech-l] Need a developer for a Kabyle wiki

body:
Mark Williamson wrote:
> "No-brainer" is a sort of idiom. Paradoxically, it means "the obvious choice".
>
> Mark
>
> On 26/10/06, Toira <venomens at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
>> Neil Harris <usenet at ...> writes:
>>
>>
>>> Given your arguments above, it looks like a no-brainer to start the
>>> Kabyle wiki in the Latin script.
>>>
>>> However, if there is, as you say, a deterministic transformation to/from
>>> Tifinagh, we could easily later use a variant of the multi-script
>>> software currently used to handle the different Chinese scripts on the
>>> Chinese Wikipedia to implement a dual-script interface, or at the least
>>> an alternative Tifinagh display mode for the Latin-based text.
>>>
>>> Do you have any references for Tifinagh <-> Latin transliteration?
>>>
>>>
>> You mean no-brainer to start it in Tifinagh? (you've written latin), Yeah I
>> guess so.
>>
>> The link to the transliteration of tifinagh could be found in wikipedia:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh
>>
>> But there is a probleme with the transliteration in latin, it's not the one used
>> to write Kabyle (we actually use a modified latin alphabet).
>>
>> I'll try to add do it here :
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_alphabet
>>
>>
>>
>>
Toira,

Please accept my apologies for the confusion: yes, Mark is right,
"no-brainer" is an English idiom which means "something about which you
don't even need to engage your brain in order to know that it is right".

Yes, Latin is the obvious way to go, with transliteration to<->from
Tifinagh as a later add-on, using the multi-script software.

Thanks for the link in the [[Berber alphabet]] article: given that
reference, this Latinized version of the Berber alphabet looks like it
should be able to be round-tripped to/from the Tifinagh script.

I'm only confused by one thing: the article says that the two non-Latin
characters are Cyrillic, but both of the characters listed in the tables
themselves appear at first sight to be Greek letters (epsilon and gamma
respectively).

(See also
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/natlang/berber/tifinagh/tifinagh-ircam.html)

However, I think they might be intended to be

U+025B LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN E  (which looks like an epsilon)

and

U+0263 LATIN SMALL LETTER GAMMA (which looks like a gamma)

respectively. This would also have the effect of making the Latinized
Berber alphabet much easier to work with, since every character in it
would then be within either the Unicode Latin or IPA extensions ranges,
and thus fall entirely within the Latin writing system.

-- Neil


body:
Neil Harris wrote:
>
> Thanks for the link in the [[Berber alphabet]] article: given that
> reference, this Latinized version of the Berber alphabet looks like it
> should be able to be round-tripped to/from the Tifinagh script.
>
> I'm only confused by one thing: the article says that the two non-Latin
> characters are Cyrillic, but both of the characters listed in the tables
> themselves appear at first sight to be Greek letters (epsilon and gamma
> respectively).
>
> (See also
> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/natlang/berber/tifinagh/tifinagh-ircam.html)
>
> However, I think they might be intended to be
>
> U+025B LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN E  (which looks like an epsilon)
>
> and
>
> U+0263 LATIN SMALL LETTER GAMMA (which looks like a gamma)
>
> respectively. This would also have the effect of making the Latinized
> Berber alphabet much easier to work with, since every character in it
> would then be within either the Unicode Latin or IPA extensions ranges,
> and thus fall entirely within the Latin writing system.
>
> -- Neil
>
>
If the above is the case, then the Unicode translation table, based on
the [[Berber alphabet]] article, would then look like this:

Latin                                          Tifinagh

U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A              <-> U+2D30

U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B              <-> U+2D31

U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C              <-> U+2D5B

U+0044 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D              <-> U+2D37

U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E              <-> U+2D3B

U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F              <-> U+2D3C

U+0047 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G              <-> U+2D33

U+0048 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H              <-> U+2D40

U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I              <-> U+2D49

U+004A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER J              <-> U+2D4A

U+004B LATIN CAPITAL LETTER K              <-> U+2D3D

U+004C LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L              <-> U+2D4D

U+004D LATIN CAPITAL LETTER M              <-> U+2D4E

U+004E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N              <-> U+2D4F

U+0051 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Q              <-> U+2D47

U+0052 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER R              <-> U+2D54

U+0053 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S              <-> U+2D59

U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T              <-> U+2D5C

U+0055 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U              <-> U+2D53

U+0057 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER W              <-> U+2D61

U+0058 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER X              <-> U+2D45

U+0059 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y              <-> U+2D62

U+005A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Z              <-> U+2D63

U+010D LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CARON     <-> U+2D5B

U+1E0D LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D39

U+011F LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE     <-> U+2D35

U+1E25 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D43

U+1E63 LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5A

U+1E6D LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5F

U+1E93 LATIN SMALL LETTER Z WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D65

U+025B LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN E           <-> U+2D44

U+0263 LATIN SMALL LETTER GAMMA            <-> U+2D56

Presumably, since there is no case distinction in Tifinagh, both the
upper and lowercase versions of the Latin letters should map onto the
same Tifinagh letters. Is there a particular preference about the
mapping in the opposite direction?

Certainly most Latin-alphabet readers would find all-lower-case
preferable to all-upper-case for comfortable reading, and the table at
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/natlang/berber/tifinagh/tifinagh-ircam.html
also suggests that lowercase was intended to be the standard.

-- Neil


from_name: Gregory Maxwell

body:
On 10/27/06, Tom M <letterrip at gmail.com> wrote:
> I personally believe a symphonic (and other musical instrument) sample
> library might be a worthwhile acquisition.
[snip]
> Providing sampling libraries would be a major enabler for the
> unleashing of creativity and potential among individuals desiring to
> create music across the world.  Perhaps doing for music creation what
> the printing press did for reading.

Of course, they are straight forward enough to build  that we don't
need to ask for megafunding.

There are two reasons for this:

1) because buying one is probably out of the question, as you pointed
out VSL (and most other libraries) sell for absolutely insane prices.
To buy one, we'd have to pay an amount equal to the revenue they'd
lose, not what it cost to make one.

2) because we don't need to start out making a world class library in
one step, and a lower quality library is very inexpensive to make...
we already have all of the resources we need to get started at our
disposal.

I've been toying with this sort of project on and of for a couple of
years now, but haven't bothered to sit down and do it.

I think that for right now, such a project is far enough outside of
the scope of Wikimedia that this is the wrong forum to discuss it
(really, even the Linux-sampler mailing list would be a better place).


body:
Neil Harris wrote:
>
> Presumably, since there is no case distinction in Tifinagh, both the
> upper and lowercase versions of the Latin letters should map onto the
> same Tifinagh letters. Is there a particular preference about the
> mapping in the opposite direction?
>
> Certainly most Latin-alphabet readers would find all-lower-case
> preferable to all-upper-case for comfortable reading, and the table at
> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/natlang/berber/tifinagh/tifinagh-ircam.html
> also suggests that lowercase was intended to be the standard.
>
>
>
...which would make the table (now with added Unicode names for Tifinagh
characters)
look more like this:

U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A                <-> U+2D30 TIFINAGH LETTER YA

U+0062 LATIN SMALL LETTER B                <-> U+2D31 TIFINAGH LETTER YAB

U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C                <-> U+2D5B TIFINAGH LETTER YASH

U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D                <-> U+2D37 TIFINAGH LETTER YAD

U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E                <-> U+2D3B TIFINAGH LETTER YEY

U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F                <-> U+2D3C TIFINAGH LETTER YAF

U+0067 LATIN SMALL LETTER G                <-> U+2D33 TIFINAGH LETTER YAG

U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H                <-> U+2D40 TIFINAGH LETTER YAH

U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I                <-> U+2D49 TIFINAGH LETTER YI

U+006A LATIN SMALL LETTER J                <-> U+2D4A TIFINAGH LETTER YAZH

U+006B LATIN SMALL LETTER K                <-> U+2D3D TIFINAGH LETTER YAK

U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L                <-> U+2D4D TIFINAGH LETTER YAL

U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M                <-> U+2D4E TIFINAGH LETTER YAM

U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N                <-> U+2D4F TIFINAGH LETTER YAN

U+0071 LATIN SMALL LETTER Q                <-> U+2D47 TIFINAGH LETTER YAQ

U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R                <-> U+2D54 TIFINAGH LETTER YAR

U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S                <-> U+2D59 TIFINAGH LETTER YAS

U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T                <-> U+2D5C TIFINAGH LETTER YAT

U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U                <-> U+2D53 TIFINAGH LETTER YU

U+0077 LATIN SMALL LETTER W                <-> U+2D61 TIFINAGH LETTER YAW

U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X                <-> U+2D45 TIFINAGH LETTER YAKH

U+0079 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y                <-> U+2D62 TIFINAGH LETTER YAY

U+007A LATIN SMALL LETTER Z                <-> U+2D63 TIFINAGH LETTER YAZ

U+010D LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CARON     <-> U+2D5B TIFINAGH LETTER YASH

U+1E0D LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D39 TIFINAGH LETTER YADD

U+011F LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE     <-> U+2D35 TIFINAGH LETTER BERBER ACADEMY YAJ

U+1E25 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D43 TIFINAGH LETTER YAHH

U+1E63 LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5A TIFINAGH LETTER YASS

U+1E6D LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5F TIFINAGH LETTER YATT

U+1E93 LATIN SMALL LETTER Z WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D65 TIFINAGH LETTER YAZZ

U+03B5 GREEK SMALL LETTER EPSILON          <-> U+2D44 TIFINAGH LETTER YAA

U+03B3 GREEK SMALL LETTER GAMMA            <-> U+2D56 TIFINAGH LETTER YAGH

-- Neil


subject: [Wikitech-l] Need a developer for a Kabyle wiki -- CORRECTION

body:
Except that I forgot to hand-patch the correct Latin characters in at
the end, last time: corrected, this should have read:

U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A                <-> U+2D30 TIFINAGH LETTER YA

U+0062 LATIN SMALL LETTER B                <-> U+2D31 TIFINAGH LETTER YAB

U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C                <-> U+2D5B TIFINAGH LETTER YASH

U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D                <-> U+2D37 TIFINAGH LETTER YAD

U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E                <-> U+2D3B TIFINAGH LETTER YEY

U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F                <-> U+2D3C TIFINAGH LETTER YAF

U+0067 LATIN SMALL LETTER G                <-> U+2D33 TIFINAGH LETTER YAG

U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H                <-> U+2D40 TIFINAGH LETTER YAH

U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I                <-> U+2D49 TIFINAGH LETTER YI

U+006A LATIN SMALL LETTER J                <-> U+2D4A TIFINAGH LETTER YAZH

U+006B LATIN SMALL LETTER K                <-> U+2D3D TIFINAGH LETTER YAK

U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L                <-> U+2D4D TIFINAGH LETTER YAL

U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M                <-> U+2D4E TIFINAGH LETTER YAM

U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N                <-> U+2D4F TIFINAGH LETTER YAN

U+0071 LATIN SMALL LETTER Q                <-> U+2D47 TIFINAGH LETTER YAQ

U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R                <-> U+2D54 TIFINAGH LETTER YAR

U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S                <-> U+2D59 TIFINAGH LETTER YAS

U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T                <-> U+2D5C TIFINAGH LETTER YAT

U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U                <-> U+2D53 TIFINAGH LETTER YU

U+0077 LATIN SMALL LETTER W                <-> U+2D61 TIFINAGH LETTER YAW

U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X                <-> U+2D45 TIFINAGH LETTER YAKH

U+0079 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y                <-> U+2D62 TIFINAGH LETTER YAY

U+007A LATIN SMALL LETTER Z                <-> U+2D63 TIFINAGH LETTER YAZ

U+010D LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CARON     <-> U+2D5B TIFINAGH LETTER YASH

U+1E0D LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D39 TIFINAGH LETTER YADD

U+011F LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE     <-> U+2D35 TIFINAGH LETTER
BERBER ACADEMY YAJ

U+1E25 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D43 TIFINAGH LETTER YAHH

U+1E63 LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5A TIFINAGH LETTER YASS

U+1E6D LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D5F TIFINAGH LETTER YATT

U+1E93 LATIN SMALL LETTER Z WITH DOT BELOW <-> U+2D65 TIFINAGH LETTER YAZZ

U+025B LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN E           <-> U+2D44 TIFINAGH LETTER YAA

U+0263 LATIN SMALL LETTER GAMMA            <-> U+2D56 TIFINAGH LETTER YAGH

-- Neil


from_name: Jimmy Wales

body:
effe iets anders wrote:
> My congratulations for Florence! I am sure she will be an outstanding
> chair. I think it is a good thing that she, as community
> representative, is chosen in this role.
> Jimbo, thank you for your years as chairman in the WMF board, I hope
> that you, as member of the board and chairman emeritus, will stay
> actively involved in the Foundation, I am sure the projects will
> benefit from that.

Oh yeah, I'm not going anywhere. :)  I am just trying to focus more on
what I do best, and do my own part in helping to move the foundation
toward my vision of us as "the Red Cross for information"... which
means, not centered on one person, not dependent on one person, but a
fully functioning *organization* with many leaders and a healthy culture
for the growth of new leaders over time.

--Jimbo


body:
Erik Zachte wrote:
> Hurray for Jimbo: a very wise proposal! Jimbo, yesterday I saw the ARTE
> documentary again, the one that aired a year ago on your birthday in
> Frankfurt. Just splendid. I hope you will find even more time now to sell
> the Wikimedia concept to the world. Noone does that more convincingly. I
> have not always been on your side lately, but I have to say: you gave the
> movement so much already, and now you give it even more: your trust! Which
> is difficult for any father of a child that reaches adulthood, and to be
> applauded.

Thanks so much for these kind words, and yes.  Selling the concept to
the world is what I do best, and that's what I love to do.  That, and
visiting Wikipedians everywhere, getting to know so many wonderful people.

> Hurray for Anthere: you deserve this so much!

Indeed she does. :)

--Jimbo


from_name: xaosflux

body:
Can you link to the item in the Block log you have concern over?  Specifying
a username in the block field when blocking an anon has never been required.

[[User:xaosflux]]

----- Original Message -----
From: <HisWebWife at aol.com>
To: <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 5:23 PM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] why would a SINGLE admin repeatedly not typically
fillout the form?

>
> Administrator User:Kylu is at it again... blocking an IP address  without
> specifying ANY user name at all.  Why is this  happening?    She blocked
> my edits
> 3 times in quick succession  yesterday, 3 time right after edits in
> entirely
> unrelated topics, and one  time I was blocked right after she received an
> email from me.
>
> I wrote Kylu three times yesterday requesting some explanation of  why a
> block should be so differently written out  than any I have ever seen
> before.
> Though I didn't demand to know, I DID want to know which  user had been
> blocked.  I didn't understand why the vandal and harasser was  not
> identified by user
> name.
>
> But Kylu has refused to respond three times.
>
> Can anyone help me understand what is going on. Below is today's  most
> recent
> message.
>
> A_Kiwi _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:A_Kiwi_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:A_Kiwi)
>
> User is blocked
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>
>
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Octagon-warning.svg)
> Your user name or IP address has been blocked from  editing.
> You were blocked by _Kylu_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu)  for
> the
> following  reason (see our _blocking  policy_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy) ):
> vandalism
> Your IP address is 152.163.100.66.
>
>
> CHECKING User Contributions for this IP address, one finds this -- this IP
> address has not been used at all today, and there are no revisions of the
> recent  edits
>
>
> User contributions
> For 152.163.100.66
>
>
>    *   22:10, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EinsteinEdits&action=history)
>  )  (_diff_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EinsteinEdits&diff=prev&oldid=83980421)
>  )
> _User  talk:EinsteinEdits_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:EinsteinEdits)
>
>    *   08:46, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Kylie&action=history)
> )  (_diff_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Kylie&diff=prev&oldid=83840681)
>  )  _Ultimate Kylie_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Kylie)
>    *   00:50, 26 October 2006 (_hist_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jan_Pronk&action=history) )
> (_diff_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jan_Pronk&diff=prev&oldid=83793146)
>  )  _Jan  Pronk_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Pronk)
>    *   18:47, 25 October 2006 (_hist_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soulard,_St._Louis&action=history)
>  )  (_diff_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soulard,_St._Louis&diff=prev&oldid=83740979)
>  )  _Soulard, St.
> Louis_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soulard,_St._Louis)  (_?_
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soulard,_St._Louis#External_links) External
> links)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


body:
Try subst:ing in your test template and see if you have any syntax errors.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Kim" <lizkim270 at gmail.com>
To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: [Wikitech-l] templates: javascript+html?

> Can templates include non-wiki codes?
> I am trying to add a link calling a javascript function.
> It works fine when added to the article itself, but template does not seem
> to work.
> Thanks!
>
> -- details:
> wiki:
> LINK
>
TEXT

>
> template try:
> <nowiki>{{{LINK}}}
>
{{{TEXT}}}
</nowiki>
>
>
> wiki using template:
> {{TEMPLATE_NAME|ID=someid |LINK=somelink |TEXT=sometext}}
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Gregory Kohs

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
I am interested to see what the expert community thinks about this scenario:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bill_Knapp%27s_Restaurant&diff=83975735&oldid=83975411

Relatively new user "Ipthief" (about 20 seemingly clueful edits between July
17 and October 25) decided that there ought to be an article in Wikipedia
about the Bill Knapp's restaurant chain (now closed, but a verifiable
"institution" in Michigan for decades -- and 900+ Google hits).  So, Ipthief
set out at 2:36 PM, writing the first forms of a stubby article.

Two minutes later, user "Diez2" lands on the page, throws up a {{db-bio}} on
the page.  In the next moment, Diez2 informs Ipthief's Talk page of the
advice, "If you can indicate why Bill Knapp's Restaurant is really notable,
you can contest the tagging."

Is it too much to expect someone to either (a) wait a little longer than 2
minutes before calling for a speedy delete, or (b) look up something on
Google to get some gauge of notability . . . before making such an
adversarial, deletionist move?  Or, is everyone on such a red-alert for spam
(even of companies that are now bankrupt and out of operation), that this
will be the standard procedure?

--
Gregory Kohs


from_name: ATR

subject: [Foundation-l]  Board officers elected; Anthere is Chair!

body:
Let's not forget that Jimbo is a "life member" of the WMF and will always be
remembered as the founder of the WMF (as opposed to his role as founder of
Wikipedia and the impetus for many sister projects):
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_bylaws#C._LIFE_MEMBERSHIP:

Good luck to Anthere and all the new officers of the Foundation Board!

Alex T. Roshuk
member: Legal Department, Chair pro tempore, Fundraising Committee
(original drafter of WMF bylaws)

| Thanks so much for these kind words, and yes.  Selling the concept to
| the world is what I do best, and that's what I love to do.  That, and
| visiting Wikipedians everywhere, getting to know so many wonderful people.
|
| > Hurray for Anthere: you deserve this so much!
|
| Indeed she does. :)
|
| --Jimbo


from_name: Dan Li

subject: [Wikitech-l] templates: javascript+html?

body:
On 10/27/06, Liz Kim <lizkim270 at gmail.com> wrote:
> template try:
> <nowiki>{{{LINK}}}
>
{{{TEXT}}}
</nowiki>

Try <nowiki><a
href=javascript:showhide('{{{ID}}}')">{{{LINK}}}
 <div id="{{{ID}}}">{{{TEXT}}}
</nowiki>
(untested).

Regards,
  - Dan Li


from_name: Damian Finol

body:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
> Erik Zachte wrote:
>> Hurray for Jimbo: a very wise proposal! Jimbo, yesterday I saw the ARTE
>> documentary again, the one that aired a year ago on your birthday in
>> Frankfurt. Just splendid. I hope you will find even more time now to sell
>> the Wikimedia concept to the world. Noone does that more convincingly. I
>> have not always been on your side lately, but I have to say: you gave the
>> movement so much already, and now you give it even more: your trust! Which
>> is difficult for any father of a child that reaches adulthood, and to be
>> applauded.
>
> Thanks so much for these kind words, and yes.  Selling the concept to
> the world is what I do best, and that's what I love to do.  That, and
> visiting Wikipedians everywhere, getting to know so many wonderful people.
>
>> Hurray for Anthere: you deserve this so much!
>
> Indeed she does. :)
>
> --Jimbo
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Congratulations to all on this new step for the WMF!, I'm very excited
about this new changes and I hope they are indeed for the best.

Speaking of world tours, I wonder if we will see anyone from the WMF
touring South America some time soon? We are a continent too, and I bet
there are tons of people from many South American Countries (Venezuela,
Chile, Argentina, Brazil) that would love to have a regional meeting and
meeting up with the WMF :P.

Regards,
Damian Finol
Maracaibo, Venezuela.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
On 10/27/06, Gregory Kohs <thekohser at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Or, is everyone on such a red-alert for spam
> (even of companies that are now bankrupt and out of operation), that this
> will be the standard procedure?

Because of the way recentchanges and special:newpages work most
tagging is necessarily concentrated on the most recent additions.

Perhaps someday we will have more powerful workflow automation which
allows us to tell if a change has been audited other than by means of
how recent it is... but until then.

And besides, quick action often gives the contributor a chance to
respond and provide the missing and needed information.  Had we not
noticed the page for another day it's quite possible that the original
contributor would be logged off, not to notice the proposed deletion
or the talk page notice for weeks, and by then the page would already
have been deleted.

You call this adversarial, but to me it just appears to be prudence.

And seriously, a bankrupt and out of business company?  Is it such a
tall order to ask people to assert notability?


from_name: Jeff Raymond

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> And seriously, a bankrupt and out of business company?  Is it such a
> tall order to ask people to assert notability?

For newbies who don't understand our somewhat complex, inconsistent, and
occasionally bizarre notability guidelines?

Yes.

-Jeff

--
Name: Jeff Raymond
E-mail: jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com
WWW: http://www.internationalhouseofbacon.com
IM: badlydrawnjeff
Quote: "As the hobbits are going up Mount Doom, the
	Eye of Mordor is being drawn somewhere else."
	- Sen. Rick Santorum on the war in Iraq.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
On 10/27/06, Jeff Raymond <jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote:
> Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>
> > And seriously, a bankrupt and out of business company?  Is it such a
> > tall order to ask people to assert notability?
>
> For newbies who don't understand our somewhat complex, inconsistent, and
> occasionally bizarre notability guidelines?
>
> Yes.

So.. we shouldn't *ask* newbies to do things?

How the heck are they ever to learn?


from_name: Phil Sandifer

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
On Oct 27, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On 10/27/06, Jeff Raymond
> <jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote:
>> Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>>
>>> And seriously, a bankrupt and out of business company?  Is it such a
>>> tall order to ask people to assert notability?
>>
>> For newbies who don't understand our somewhat complex,
>> inconsistent, and
>> occasionally bizarre notability guidelines?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> So.. we shouldn't *ask* newbies to do things?
>
> How the heck are they ever to learn?

Tagging an article with {{delete}} isn't asking- it's telling a user
to fuck off.

Going to their talk page, asking, and waiting a day is asking them to
do things. Slapping an article with {{delete}} is being aggressive,
hostile, and bitey.

-Phil


from_name: Timwi

subject: [Wikitech-l] Password reminder from Wikipedia spam

body:
Tim Starling wrote:
> I've just implemented a per-user limit on password reminder emails. By
> default, 24 hours must elapse from one password reminder to the next. I
> figure if you've just been sent one password reminder, you don't need
> another one, assuming your mail was working.

And there you've already highlighted a grave problem with your approach.
Suppose you didn't receive the mail (for whatever reasons). Then what?


from_name: Erik Moeller

body:
I have been asked to announce this in my new formal officer role as
Executive Secretary:

The Wikimedia Board met in Frankfurt, Germany on October 22,
immediately following a planning retreat attended by the Board and
more than 20 members of the Wikimedia community.  The Board voted
unanimously to elect Florence Devouard as the Chair of the Board, Tim
Shell as Vice-Chair, Erik M?ller as Executive Secretary, and Michael
Davis as Treasurer.  Jimmy Wales assumes the title of Chairman
Emeritus of the Foundation.

Jimmy Wales said: "I nominated Florence to be the chair of the
foundation in recognition of her outstanding service for the past few
years and her unsurpassed passion for our goals.  Having such a
trusted community representative elected as our new chair demonstrates
the growth and strength of our organization."

 - - - -

For reference, the resolution:

The Board resolved that, from the 21 of October and for a term of one
year at most, as defined in the bylaws:

Motion by Jimmy Wales, following discussion, the Board consensus
resulted in the following officers:

   1. Florence Devouard shall be the chair of the board of trustees
   2. Tim Shell shall be the vice-chair
   3. Michael Davis shall be the treasurer
   4. Erik Moeller shall be the executive secretary

Jimmy Wales shall assume the title of Chairman Emeritus of the Foundation.

Approved unanimously at the board meeting - 21 october 2006

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Officers_election_2006

The current legal responsibilities of the different officers of the
Board are defined in the bylaws:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_bylaws
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.


subject:
[Wikitech-l] major accessibility problem recently introduced to
	MediaWiki

body:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
>> Please test your changes very carefully before committing them.
>> There has been a lot of irritation at various projects when the
>> user interface changed.
>
> That's a bit harsh. The changes were made in response to user
> requests, plus a separate user-interface study that indicated new
> users frequently got confused about what the [edit] links were
> editing, because they were too high off the line. So the changes were
>  made to reduce user-interface irritation.

Except, for some reason that hasn't been specified (or I didn't see it),
only half the change was made. Instead of simply placing the edit link
after the section header's text, as it is both recommended by the study
*and* already implemented by the German Wikipedia, you placed it before
the section header's text in the source...


body:
dbenzhuser wrote:
> Timwi schrieb:
>
>>I agree with them. I say nuke the floats, and place the span after the
>>section title into the h# element.
>
> Even though I agree with you and would like to see the behavior from de
> and fr to be default, there should be a possibility to switch to the old
> style. Most people on de.wiki like the new position of the links (or at
> least don't dislike it), but there are quiet some people that don't want
> to use it
> (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Search?ns2=1&search=oldEditsectionLinks&fulltext=Suche)

Well duh. In the same way that it is possible to manipulate the current
skin into de's/fr's layout using JavaScript, it is possible to do just
the reverse as well, except this time the JavaScript would be in users'
own .js pages where they actually belong.

Timwi


body:
Posting separately, a personal note:

I'm very glad that Anthere was unanimously elected to be the new Chair
of the Wikimedia Foundation. Anyone who has seen and heard her speak
at one of the Wikimania conferences (or at any other) knows that she
can represent the Foundation with incredible passion, intelligence and
charisma. This change of officer roles marks a significant step
forward for Wikimedia as a non-profit governed primarily by members of
its project communities. Nor was this in any way a move against Jimmy;
in fact, it was him who had orchestrated the whole thing. ;-)
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.


from_name: effe iets anders

body:
My congratulations for Florence! I am sure she will be an outstanding
chair. I think it is a good thing that she, as community
representative, is chosen in this role.
Jimbo, thank you for your years as chairman in the WMF board, I hope
that you, as member of the board and chairman emeritus, will stay
actively involved in the Foundation, I am sure the projects will
benefit from that.

Lodewijk

2006/10/27, Erik Moeller <erik at wikimedia.org>:
> I have been asked to announce this in my new formal officer role as
> Executive Secretary:
>
> The Wikimedia Board met in Frankfurt, Germany on October 22,
> immediately following a planning retreat attended by the Board and
> more than 20 members of the Wikimedia community.  The Board voted
> unanimously to elect Florence Devouard as the Chair of the Board, Tim
> Shell as Vice-Chair, Erik M?ller as Executive Secretary, and Michael
> Davis as Treasurer.  Jimmy Wales assumes the title of Chairman
> Emeritus of the Foundation.
>
> Jimmy Wales said: "I nominated Florence to be the chair of the
> foundation in recognition of her outstanding service for the past few
> years and her unsurpassed passion for our goals.  Having such a
> trusted community representative elected as our new chair demonstrates
> the growth and strength of our organization."
>
>  - - - -
>
> For reference, the resolution:
>
> The Board resolved that, from the 21 of October and for a term of one
> year at most, as defined in the bylaws:
>
> Motion by Jimmy Wales, following discussion, the Board consensus
> resulted in the following officers:
>
>    1. Florence Devouard shall be the chair of the board of trustees
>    2. Tim Shell shall be the vice-chair
>    3. Michael Davis shall be the treasurer
>    4. Erik Moeller shall be the executive secretary
>
> Jimmy Wales shall assume the title of Chairman Emeritus of the Foundation.
>
> Approved unanimously at the board meeting - 21 october 2006
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Officers_election_2006
>
> The current legal responsibilities of the different officers of the
> Board are defined in the bylaws:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_bylaws
> --
> Peace & Love,
> Erik
>
> Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>
> DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
> in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
> position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: geni

subject: [Commons-l] Dream a little...

body:
On 10/27/06, "Lennert B?hm" <Lennert.Boehm at gmx.de> wrote:
> Okay, I've got a suggestion which is somewhat "out of the box".
> I was thinking about purchasing patents to medications, that could then be used to treat >those that can't afford them.

There are other costs. It is quite difficult to make stuff like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ritonavir.png

>First things that spring to mind are AIDS, Malaria or TBC
medications, that are currently >completely inaffordable for many
people world wide.

That has little to do with patents. Anti HIV stuff tends to be
availible at cost in such areas. All major anti malerials have been
around long enough for the patents to expire. I belive the same is
true for TB (not that that means much with the number of drug resitant
strains we are seeing).

> I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be easy to convince pharmaceutical companies to sell even one >patent,

Most of the first generation of anti HIV drugs are comeing to the end
of their patent. 100 million would probably be enough to get them to
give up a year.

AZT has been patent free for over a year.

>but if they were explained that they 1) would get a positive
publicity that's very hard to >buy otherwise,

They can get paid for working on maleria vaccines. How much posertive
publicity do they need?
--
geni


from_name: Tels

references:
<op.thqdcdo1r18sbe@mainframe.lan> <ehi2si$jki$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<ehtvap$jma$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Moin,

On Friday 27 October 2006 23:56, Timwi wrote:
> Tim Starling wrote:
> > I've just implemented a per-user limit on password reminder emails. By
> > default, 24 hours must elapse from one password reminder to the next. I
> > figure if you've just been sent one password reminder, you don't need
> > another one, assuming your mail was working.
>
> And there you've already highlighted a grave problem with your approach.
> Suppose you didn't receive the mail (for whatever reasons). Then what?

I think 1 hour would be a bit better limit (manually triggering them needs a
1 hour waiting period, vandals might lose the impatience with that).

Plus, maybe you could allow the reminder to be sent out faster if you get
back a bounce.

(silently eaten reminders still cause a problem, but if you dont get the
first, you likely dont get the second,either)

Another alternative aproach would be to make reminders sent out immidiately
if you enter your email adress, otherwise they are capped to (whatever
limits) you want.

best wishes,

tels

- --
 Signed on Sat Oct 28 00:32:25 2006 with key 0x93B84C15.
 Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/
 PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.

 "The UAC is making safer worlds through superior firepower."

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)

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jotjfbn7tzBJ20JdlBXHrGf7//g1jKSICYLlCrLCb2+lWSqRU1W7mybyQwztf5X7
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body:
On 10/28/06, Tom M <letterrip at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Of course, they are straight forward enough to build  that we don't
> > need to ask for megafunding.
>
> They are not 'straight forward' to build due to the technical skill
> required and the technical capabilities and quality of facilities
> needed to do good quality samples with consistent acoustic properties.
>  Most large universities could probably do so with adequate funding.
>

In what I think was the UK goverment's education gimic before last
they came up with the idea of schools provideing community facitities.
I don't think it worked to well but one side effect was a number of
high quality recording studios were built. There are also various
music collages and the like.

--
geni


from_name: "Lennert Böhm"

subject: [Commons-l] Dream a little...

body:
Okay, I've got a suggestion which is somewhat "out of the box".
I was thinking about purchasing patents to medications, that could then be used to treat those that can't afford them. First things that spring to mind are AIDS, Malaria or TBC medications, that are currently completely inaffordable for many people world wide.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be easy to convince pharmaceutical companies to sell even one patent, but if they were explained that they 1) would get a positive publicity that's very hard to buy otherwise, 2) get money from the sell and 3) still can sell the generics, so they're not completely losing money, it might be possible.
I know, it's technically not free knowledge in the way we are referring to it on the different wikiprojects, but I think this could nontheless be a worthy cause.

Thanks for listening,

Lennert B
--
GMX DSL-Flatrate 0,- Euro* - ?berall, wo DSL verf?gbar ist!
NEU: Jetzt bis zu 16.000 kBit/s! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
On 10/27/06, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tagging an article with {{delete}} isn't asking- it's telling a user
> to fuck off.
>
> Going to their talk page, asking, and waiting a day is asking them to
> do things. Slapping an article with {{delete}} is being aggressive,
> hostile, and bitey.

The person in question did go to the users talk page.

You're ascribing a lot of emotions (aggressive, hostile, and bitey) to
someone you've never spoken with.


from_name: Erik Zachte

body:
Hurray for Jimbo: a very wise proposal! Jimbo, yesterday I saw the ARTE
documentary again, the one that aired a year ago on your birthday in
Frankfurt. Just splendid. I hope you will find even more time now to sell
the Wikimedia concept to the world. Noone does that more convincingly. I
have not always been on your side lately, but I have to say: you gave the
movement so much already, and now you give it even more: your trust! Which
is difficult for any father of a child that reaches adulthood, and to be
applauded.

Hurray for Anthere: you deserve this so much!

Erik Zachte


body:
Oscar:
> you may not be aware of this, but my report is designed to be the
> first in a
> series of updates, designed for quick delivery and some comprehensive
> information about the retreat, details will of course follow, but not just
> by me. this takes time, people!!
>

Oscar, I can understand you feel offended. Yet I hope you understand that I
can't sense the above without you giving any hint in your original post that
this was an initial and incomplete report only.

You were asked to act as official messenger. You delivered the message, or
so it seemed. I asked for more. Would you have added something like 'More to
come..' I would have reacted differently or quite possibly not at all yet.

Cheers, Erik Zachte


body:
On 10/28/06, Erik Zachte <erikzachte at infodisiac.com> wrote:
> You were asked to act as official messenger. You delivered the message, or
> so it seemed. I asked for more. Would you have added something like 'More to
> come..' I would have reacted differently or quite possibly not at all yet.

Oscar is not to blame. We (Board) should have responded earlier to
clarify this. My personal apologies as Board member for not doing so.
At least one follow-up report will indeed come, clarifying the
specific work that is to be done (what, by whom, by what date).
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.


from_name: Tim Starling

subject: [Wikitech-l] php in mediawiki?

body:
Liz Kim wrote:
> is there some variable to be able to input raw php into the edit box??
>
> for example,
> I have the raw html variable enabled...
> and  seem to work fine
>
> I have tried..
> <?php echo "hello"; ?>
> but does not seem to do the trick...

Why does everyone seem to think that's a good idea? There's an extension for
this, believe it or not, and a lot of users too. They always say "it's
alright, I'm just using it as a personal organiser on localhost, nobody else
can access it", but personally, I've found MediaWiki to be slow and
unreliable in that role, compared to the alternatives.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Runphp

-- Tim Starling


from_name: Steve Block

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
Gregory Kohs wrote:
> Is it too much to expect someone to either (a) wait a little longer than 2
> minutes before calling for a speedy delete, or (b) look up something on
> Google to get some gauge of notability . . . before making such an
> adversarial, deletionist move?  Or, is everyone on such a red-alert for spam
> (even of companies that are now bankrupt and out of operation), that this
> will be the standard procedure?

I'm finding the new spam speedy, is it G11 or G12, really contentious.
I can't work what is meant by blatant advertising.  Some people seem to
be taking the view that it's simply having an article on a company.

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 27/10/06


from_name: Evan Prodromou

body:
On Fri, 2006-27-10 at 16:47 -0400, Travis Derouin wrote:
> Yeah, off the top of my head: anything to do with the UI should have a
> hook, this of course is just coming from my experience with 1.6.7, who
> knows, there could be tons of hooks in 1.8+.

There are!

> It just seems like continously defining hooks in specific places
> isn't really sustainable way of allowing developers to build add-ons,
> and that another approach could be thought out.

Well, if you run a debugger, you could put breakpoints at any line of
code and possibly at arbitrary expressions. It also slows down your code
to a crawl, and it gives far more modifiability than anyone really
needs.

The chain of responsibility pattern is a classic way to provide run-time
modifiable behaviour.

-Evan


list: textbook-l

from_name: Cormac Lawler

subject: [Textbook-l] Wikiversity logo

body:
On 10/27/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 27/10/06, Angela <beesley at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/26/06, Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > 1) Is there a wikiversity mailing list?
> >
> > Yes - http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l
> >
> > > If so, I couldn't find it at
> > > mail.wikipedia.org .
> >
> > It's one of the few listed as Wikimedia, not Wikipedia -
> > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Well, it's not listed at http://mail.wikimedia.org/ either. Who can
> edit those pages? Devs?
>
> Brianna

Brianna,

the wikiversity mailing list is listed at
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ - I've no idea why - and
personally, I'd also prefer if all Wikimedia lists were listed
together. I don't know who can carry out such tasks, or if it's
possible to "merge" two lists.

On the logo - pateince - the logo contest is coming to a close - and
the winning logo will definitely be "copyright of the Wikimedia
Foundation" - it was specified in the contest rules. The current image
(ie mortarboard) is, and always was, simply a placeholder.

Cheers,

Cormac


from_name: Heimermann, Asher

subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Domain Names

body:
I am not sure who to talk to, but I would like to set up some domain names that would redirect to www.wikimedia.org.

  Also, I would like to order an item from Wiki Store, but I can't order stuff on-line, is there a order form I can get from somewhere?

  Yours Very Truly,

  Asher Heimermann

---------------------------------
Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap  PC-to-Phone call rates.


subject: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Domain Names


from_name: Jimmy Wales

references:
<NMENLBGDKAFGBDHEPOBNIEMADEAA.erikzachte@infodisiac.com>	<4542A3E1.20802@wikia.com>
	<4542B574.7020207@igluve.org>

body:
Damian Finol wrote:
> Speaking of world tours, I wonder if we will see anyone from the WMF
> touring South America some time soon? We are a continent too, and I bet
> there are tons of people from many South American Countries (Venezuela,
> Chile, Argentina, Brazil) that would love to have a regional meeting and
> meeting up with the WMF :P.

I was in Brazil twice this year, and plan to visit South America again
next year at least once or twice.  I understand that a Venezuelan
chapter may be in the process of forming, and I would love to visit for
a launch event of that...

--Jimbo


from_name: Michael Snow

body:
Anthere wrote:

> There is something else Oscar does not mention. Yes, we could have
> provided you with the SWOT outcome (it will be done), as well as with
> the brainstorming results of the actions outlined (it will be done as
> well, but for some confidential considerations).
>
> However, several of these actions proposed during the retreat should
> actually be approved by the board. Most of them are pretty clearly
> agreed upon by all board members. But for some propositions, questions
> were raised, not so much for the action itself, but rather on who is
> the lead of it, or what the timeline proposed is.
> The final decision on what the board should do is not under the
> authority of the participants, it is under the authority of the board
> itself. It would make no sense to announce you an action the board
> will take care of, if the board actually does not agree in doing it.
>
> Right ?
>
> So, we are listing (we is brad and I) the various actions points
> proposed, according to categories, and I will ask the board to clarify
> if it is a "yup" or a "nope". Except for confidential issues (in
> particular legal considerations), I think most will be transparent.
>
> It would be cool to be given a little bit of trust and time. Please.

I'd like to add something. Some people seem to be laboring under the
false impression that the outcomes of the retreat all exist in a single
lengthy electronic document, and that it would have been "easier" to
just dump that onto the list, or answer questions by copy-and-pasting
from it. We did not work that way. When you are together with people, it
undermines the benefits of meeting in person and defeats the purpose if
you continue to do everything on a computer. Not to mention that not
everyone has laptops, and their use was specifically discouraged for
most of the retreat.

As Anthere has alluded to, some of the results still need to be
organized, discussed further, and agreements reached. The board retreat
did not decide every course of action for the Wikimedia Foundation for
all time. Much more will be shared and discussed with various people in
various forums as we go forward. But we cannot recreate the entire
retreat for everyone who wasn't present, or produce a three-day-long
video for you to watch it all unfold.

--Michael Snow


subject: [Commons-l] Dream a little...

body:
Hi geni, Rest,

obviously we can't start building a lab in St. Petersburg or wherever and make the drugs ourselves. But if the patents were released into Public Domain, prices would drop. Just think of the prices of e.g. Tylenol or Ibuprofen.

Lennert B

--
GMX DSL-Flatrate 0,- Euro* - ?berall, wo DSL verf?gbar ist!
NEU: Jetzt bis zu 16.000 kBit/s! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl


subject: [Commons-l] Dream a little...

body:
On 10/28/06, "Lennert B?hm" <Lennert.Boehm at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi geni, Rest,
>
> obviously we can't start building a lab in St. Petersburg or wherever and make the drugs >ourselves. But if the patents were released into Public Domain, prices would drop. Just >think of the prices of e.g. Tylenol or Ibuprofen.

Paracetamol is trivial to make and uses readily availible precursors.

Ibuprofen is probably slightly more difficult and has that chiral
centre although it appears that almost everyone just uses a racemic
mix.

Even say AZT is rather harder to make

Patents on drugs only last 20 years in any case so you would only be
speeding the entry to the public domain by a few years. I'm sorry but
getting rid of the patents on the anti HIV drugs is not the magic
bullet that certian people made it out to be.

--
geni


from_name: J JIH

subject: [Commons-l] PD-UN template

body:
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:04:43 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Fredrik Josefsson <fred_chessplayer at yahoo.se>
> Subject: [Commons-l] PD-UN template
> To: Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <20061023180443.22932.qmail at web23010.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> On behalf of a user who asked a question on Commons:
>
> Question about [[s:en:Template:PD-UN]]
> <http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/en:Template:PD-UN> and
> its Chinese and French versions hereto. When
> Wikisource was a multilingual site accepting all
> languages, it had so many UN Security Council
> resolutions posted by various users unaware of UN
> copyright. As the UN Headquarters is subject to the
> same USA laws, works published there are copyrighted
> in the same way as works published in the USA.
>
> Works published in the USA between 1978 and 1 March
> 1989 without copyright notices and without subsequent
> copyright registrations are in the public domain in
> the USA, but should subsequent copyright registrations
> be validly made, the works become copyrighted. I would
> like to ask if these works are acceptable here. This
> is critical as most, if not all, images at
> [[:Category:Stamps of United Nations]] may be indeed
> copyrighted.
>
> ----
>
> I thought I ask at the mailinglist, see if anyone can
> provide an answer...
>
> / Fred-Chess
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:10:02 +0200
> From: David Monniaux <David.Monniaux at free.fr>
> Subject: Re: [Commons-l] PD-UN template
> To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List <commons-l at wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <453D057A.4070908 at free.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Fredrik Josefsson wrote:
>
> >On behalf of a user who asked a question on Commons:
> >
> >Question about [[s:en:Template:PD-UN]]
> ><http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/en:Template:PD-UN> and
> >its Chinese and French versions hereto. When
> >Wikisource was a multilingual site accepting all
> >languages, it had so many UN Security Council
> >resolutions posted by various users unaware of UN
> >copyright. As the UN Headquarters is subject to the
> >same USA laws
> >
> How so? The headquarters are in extraterritorial territory.

I was the one asking at Commons. Section 7 of the United States Headquarters
Agreement for the United Nations, Public Law
80-357<http://www.un.int/usa/host_hqs.htm>does apply American laws to
the UN Headquarters in New York unless otherwise
provided. This would apply American copyright law there as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain#United_States_law says, "Until
the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, the lack of a proper
copyright notice would force an otherwise copyrightable work into the public
domain, although for works published between 1978 and 1989, this defect
could be cured by registering the work with the Library of
Congress<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress>within 5
years of publication. After 1988, an author's copyright in a work
begins when it is fixed in a tangible form; neither publication nor
registration is required, and a lack of a copyright notice does not place
the work into the public domain."

If Wikipedia is correct, works published in the USA and the UN Headquaters
between 1978 and 1989 with no copyright notice would be in the public domain
in the USA now since much more than 5 years have passed since 1989. This is
why I would like to ask before bringing Template:PD-UN from Wikisource to
Wikimedia Commons. However, we should have a verifiable citation to the
5-year claim.

Jusjih, admin at 8 Wiki sites (Commons, English and Chinese Wikipedia,
Wiktionary, Wikisource)
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from_name: Andrew Gray

body:
On 28/10/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:

> ...helping to move the foundation
> toward my vision of us as "the Red Cross for information"...

I now have visions of people wearing "Biblioth?caires Sans Fronti?res" t-shirts.

[note to self]

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Gregory Maxwell

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Comscore claims Wikipedia had more visitors during
	September than Amazon, Myspace or Youtube

body:
On 10/28/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> Less. Our vistors likely don't stay as long.

Your statement is not refuted by the AOL search data: Lots of people
clicked through to Wikipedia on a broad spectrum of search keywords,
but many continued searching afterwards.

...Although we really can't be sure.   In any case, you could counter
your counter with the point that a large amount of the youtube traffic
was visitors viewing copyright violations. :)

If anyone would be interested in seeing a list of the most popular
search strings and articles where users came to Wikipedia but then
continued searching... I could make one.  Perhaps there are places
where we should switch which of several articles is at [[name]] vs
[[name (disambiguation)]] or a redirect change, or an intro rewrite
might make sense.

A while back I did a list of the most popular search keywords which
lack articles and we found a couple of gaping holes in our coverage.


from_name: Keith Old

subject: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: Google Alert - Wikipedia Current news stories

body:
G'day,

Please see attached assorted stories on Wikipedia in the Media.

Regards

Keith Old

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Google Alerts <googlealerts-noreply at google.com>
Date: Oct 28, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Google Alert - Wikipedia
To: keithold at gmail.com

Google News Alert for: *Wikipedia*

 *Wikipedia* Mulls Copyright Purchase
Plan<http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127700-c,copyright/article.html>
PC World - USA
*Wikipedia* is considering a plan to purchase copyright content and make it
available under public domain. "It's not a project yet *...*
 See all stories on this
topic<http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,127700-c,copyright/article.html>

 Spin, *Wikipedia*,
Spin!<http://www.seattlest.com/archives/2006/10/27/spin_wikipedia_spin.php>
Seattlest - Seattle,USA
*...* The author? A new *Wikipedia* user named WSDOT Alaskan Way Viaduct
Project. WSDOT Alaskan Way Viaduct Project made some extensive *...*

 British judge presses for speedy start to transatlantic air terror
*...*<http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/10/british-judge-presses-for-speedy-start.php>
JURIST - USA
Justice David Calvert-Smith [*Wikipedia* profile] asked prosecutors
specifically to be quick in organizing their evidence, a charge that
prosecutors claim is *...*
 See all stories on this
topic<http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2006/10/british-judge-presses-for-speedy-start.php>

------------------------------
 This as-it-happens Google Alert is brought to you by Google.

Remove<http://www.google.com/alerts/remove?s=EAAAAJIYjGvvYh_lTUXpN8OVYWE&hl=en>this
alert.
Create <http://www.google.com/alerts?hl=en> another alert.
Manage <http://www.google.com/alerts/manage?hl=en> your alerts.


from_name: Rob Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Defamation policy

body:
On 8/18/06, Sarah <slimvirgin at gmail.com> wrote:

>... Someone
> in that case was posting long screeds of damaging claims to the talk
> page because editors were resisting allowing it into the article.
>
> There are lots of ways material can be discussed with directly
> referring to it, and people can ask for a reliable source for all
> edits....

For the record, the "screeds" were in fact direct quotes with proper cites

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_January_2006/Candidate_statements/Fred_Bauder&diff=30396478&oldid=30392313

added without comment

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chip_Berlet&oldid=28992316#continue_the_body_count

In sum, a proper cite was deemed a "personal attack" on a "privileged expert".

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Verifiability&diff=prev&oldid=30392874


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Comscore claims Wikipedia had more visitors
	during	September than Amazon, Myspace or Youtube

body:
 "Keith Old" wrote

> Microsoft, Yahoo!, Google, and eBay took the top positions, however relative
> newcomers Wikipedia and YouTube are making a rapid climb up the World Wide
> Web (WWW), as per the monthly Internet snapshot, released by Comscore.

Alexa has WP edging ahead of eBay. The total traffic is less, but we have more visitors. It is cheering to see that eBay's traffic graph is going down (but as a proportion of Web traffic - presumably not in absolute terms) while we are steadily gaining in share. For us 0.5% of the Web traffic would be a big, server busting number.

Charles

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from_name: geni

body:
On 10/28/06, Keith Old <keithold at gmail.com> wrote:
> More in story.
>
> (Hmmm. If Youtube was worth 1.6 billion, and we have nearly twice as many
> visitors how much would we be worth but I digress)
>

Less. Our vistors likely don't stay as long.
--
geni


from_name: valdelli at bluemail.ch

body:
Considering your new position, dear Jimbo, I think that you will have
more free time to meet Italian and Swiss chapters.

I know that you like good food and good wine and for this reason I
think that you have never known Italy or Switzerland very well
otherwise you would like these regions ;)

We are waiting you.

Ilario^_^

----Messaggio originale----
Da: jwales at wikia.com
Data: 28.10.06 16.53
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Board officers elected; Anthere is
Chair!

Damian Finol wrote:
> Speaking of world tours, I wonder if we will see anyone from the
WMF
> touring South America some time soon? We are a continent too, and
I bet
> there are tons of people from many South American Countries
(Venezuela,
> Chile, Argentina, Brazil) that would love to have a regional
meeting and
> meeting up with the WMF :P.

I was in Brazil twice this year, and plan to visit South America
again
next year at least once or twice.  I understand that a Venezuelan
chapter may be in the process of forming, and I would love to visit
for
a launch event of that...

--Jimbo
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


subject: [WikiEN-l] Libel of organisations or just individuals

body:
Simon Blandford wrote

> I'm a little unclear on this from reading Wikipedia's policy on libel.
>
> It seems concerned only with libel of individuals. What is the policy
> with regards to organisations? In the UK the libel laws cover
> organisations as well as individuals.

I've just a few minutes ago added a section on 'Defending interests' to [[Wikipedia:Conflict of interest]]. This is a guideline piece about people defending on behalf of institutions, or people.

WP's policy on libel and so on is clearly that we don't want it. The general thrust, I think, is to refer as much as possible back to existing policies, so that non-neutral edits are dealt with using conventional weaponry. On what is defamatory, I'm sure we generally stick to 'truth is a defence'.

Charles

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
Phil Sandifer wrote

> Going to their talk page, asking, and waiting a day is asking them to
> do things. Slapping an article with {{delete}} is being aggressive,
> hostile, and bitey.

In an ideal world, we'd have enough admins to have a new pages patrol along those lines. One reason we don't is the sheer quantity of submission of parochial stuff, like this. Would Britannica have an article on Bill Knapp's? No. Is it obvious reference material, like sports statistics? No. Can we legislate for people who start with no idea of what an encyclopedia is, traditionally? No, we have started from the view that participation here is for people interested in the encyclopedic mission, not for some project we'd eventually announce in the area of trivia.

Charles

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body:
I don't understand any implication of your post, but IMHO Jimbo is a
person who looks far (very far).

Ilario

----Messaggio originale----
Da: erik at wikimedia.org
Data: 27.10.06 23.10
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Board officers elected; Anthere is
Chair!

Posting separately, a personal note:

I'm very glad that Anthere was unanimously elected to be the new
Chair
of the Wikimedia Foundation. Anyone who has seen and heard her
speak
at one of the Wikimania conferences (or at any other) knows that
she
can represent the Foundation with incredible passion, intelligence
and
charisma. This change of officer roles marks a significant step
forward for Wikimedia as a non-profit governed primarily by members
of
its project communities. Nor was this in any way a move against
Jimmy;
in fact, it was him who had orchestrated the whole thing. ;-)
--
Peace & Love,
Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] toward the future

body:
Sorry Florence... is this a mean that you are waiting for someone who
seats on you?

I hope to understand in a bad way!

Ilario^_^

----Messaggio originale----
Da: anthere9 at yahoo.com
Data: 28.10.06 1.02
A: <foundation-l at wikimedia.org>
Oggetto: [Foundation-l] toward the future

[CUT]

<side note>"chair", not "chairperson", nor
"chairwoman" and anyone saying "chairman" will risk
being crushed by an ant</sidenote>


subject: [Foundation-l] toward the future


from_name: Travis Derouin

body:
> There are!

Right, but my point is, this approach doesn't seem to be sustainable,
I imagine that it's like documentation - define a new function or
piece of code - add a hook later when someone points out one doesn't
exist.

> Well, if you run a debugger, you could put breakpoints at any line of
> code and possibly at arbitrary expressions. It also slows down your code
> to a crawl, and it gives far more modifiability than anyone really
> needs.

I guess I wasn't too clear. Ideally, an extension should be something
that an admin can just unzip, add a line to LocalSettings.php, and
boom, it works. About half the extensions I've written, or installed
myself, require modifying the actual code base, which makes it a)
harder for the end user to configure and b) more of a pain to upgrade
to the next version of Mediawiki. If there were a better system in
place that really opened up Mediawiki (instead of just definining more
hooks), extensions would gel better with the current software, would
be more accessible and would have longer longevity.

Of course, I don't have any ideas, other than the not so great idea of
tapping into wfProfileIn and wfProfileOut, but it seems that if we
call these 2 functions for each function just to profile the software,
it would be probably even more useful to use that space to call any
available hooks that have been defined for any extensions, it just
would seem more applicable.

Travis


from_name: Gatto Nero

references:
<NMENLBGDKAFGBDHEPOBNIEMADEAA.erikzachte@infodisiac.com>
	<4542A3E1.20802@wikia.com> <4542B574.7020207@igluve.org>
	<45436F02.4090301@wikia.com>

body:
2006/10/28, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com>:

> I was in Brazil twice this year, and plan to visit South America again
> next year at least once or twice.  I understand that a Venezuelan
> chapter may be in the process of forming, and I would love to visit for
> a launch event of that...
>
> --Jimbo

Just to remember: two "Wikimedia IT general meet-up", no Foundation
representative... :D

("Jimbo, come to us. No, to us!")


from_name: Ray Saintonge

subject: [WikiEN-l] Bill Knapp's slaughter

body:
Gregory Maxwell wrote:

>On 10/27/06, Jeff Raymond <jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And seriously, a bankrupt and out of business company?  Is it such a
>>>tall order to ask people to assert notability?
>>>
>>>
>>For newbies who don't understand our somewhat complex, inconsistent, and
>>occasionally bizarre notability guidelines?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>
>So.. we shouldn't *ask* newbies to do things?
>
>How the heck are they ever to learn?
>
By entering into a respectful dialogue.

Ec