from_name: John Tex

subject: [WikiEN-l] WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 32, Issue 110

body:
Concerning the WP:Office actions, I think we need to be very careful about
focusing so much on biographies.  Slander of Bill Gate is still slander
whether the offending text is contained at [[Bill Gates]] or [[Mircorsoft]]
or [[anti-IE]] or at [[bondage]].  The article may at first glance have
nothing to do with the target of the slander at all.

-Johntex

On 3/15/06, wikien-l-request at wikipedia.org <wikien-l-request at wikipedia.org>
wrote:
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: more WP:OFFICE shenanigans (Kirill Lokshin)
>    2. Re: more WP:OFFICE shenanigans (Delirium)
>    3. Re: Too much agglomeration (Stan Shebs)
>    4. Re: more WP:OFFICE shenanigans (Kirill Lokshin)
>    5. Re: Too much agglomeration (The Cunctator)
>    6. Split tool? was Too much agglomeration (The Cunctator)
>    7. Re: Too much agglomeration (The Cunctator)
>    8. Cute mention in the NYT (The Cunctator)
>    9. Re: Retrieving article deleted for NN (Tony Sidaway)
>   10. Re: Retrieving article deleted for NN (Tony Sidaway)
>   11. Re: Retrieving article deleted for NN (The Cunctator)
>   12. Re: Retrieving article deleted for NN (Kat Walsh)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:57:55 -0500
> From: "Kirill Lokshin" <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] more WP:OFFICE shenanigans
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <3f797b9a0603151657h47a1da36ta4cf23eacd139009 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/15/06, Delirium <delirium at hackish.org> wrote:
> > > Why is it not a good comparison?  There are many people who would
> argue
> > > that Satanists are no better than Stormfront members (possibly worse,
> if
> > > you believe the network-TV exposes on "satanic cults").
> > >
> > > If indeed an individual keeps making superficially neutral edits that
> > > turn out not to be, then I would favor banning them---but *because of
> > > that*, not because they happen to be a neo-Nazi, or a pedophile, or a
> > > Satanist, or whatever the moral-panic-du-jour is.
> >
> > My point wasn't so much about the type of person editing (although an
> > argument can be made that our level of care here should be directly
> > proportional to the size and intensity of the pitchfork-wielding mob
> > after Jimbo if we screw up), but about the type of article.
> > Biographies, being highly susceptible to defamation and the like, are
> > of significantly less risk than articles on general topics.
> >
> > Are there some particular biographies where we should be wary of
> > Satanist manipulation?  ;-)
> >
> > Kirill Lokshin
>
> And that should be *more* risk, of course!
>
> Kirill Lokshin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:03:53 -0500
> From: Delirium <delirium at hackish.org>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] more WP:OFFICE shenanigans
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <4418B979.2090905 at hackish.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Kirill Lokshin wrote:
>
> >(although an
> >argument can be made that our level of care here should be directly
> >proportional to the size and intensity of the pitchfork-wielding mob
> >after Jimbo if we screw up)
> >
> That's actually what I'm afraid may be happening, at least in some cases.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:10:02 -0800
> From: Stan Shebs <shebs at apple.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Too much agglomeration
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID: <4418BAEA.3080002 at apple.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> The Cunctator wrote:
>
> >Someone please tell me how this article
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
> >
> >is better off not being broken up into separate entries.
> >
> Wow, it's sure grown since I looked at it last. I think it's ready
> to be its own project now - gitmo.wikimedia.org, complete with
> full bios of all the prisoners and all the guards, and entries
> like [[15 March 2006 at Gitmo]] to record the events of each day
> (only the *notable* events of course).
>
> Stan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:48:50 -0500
> From: "Kirill Lokshin" <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] more WP:OFFICE shenanigans
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <3f797b9a0603151748x21e91f49r5e37542e5fee3b28 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Delirium <delirium at hackish.org> wrote:
> > Kirill Lokshin wrote:
> >
> > >(although an
> > >argument can be made that our level of care here should be directly
> > >proportional to the size and intensity of the pitchfork-wielding mob
> > >after Jimbo if we screw up)
> > >
> > That's actually what I'm afraid may be happening, at least in some
> cases.
>
> I don't think that's entirely a bad thing.  Unless we wish to ignore
> Wikipedia's reputation entirely, we should, within reason, avoid doing
> things likely to blow up in our face in a particluarly spectacular
> fashion.  Whether any particular issue _is_ likely to blow up is open
> for debate, of course; but we shouldn't pretend that any decisions we
> make will have no reprecussions in the outside world.
>
> Kirill Lokshin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:10:14 -0500
> From: "The Cunctator" <cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Too much agglomeration
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <dfd0b40603151810w4b0a9ff2paa6d522eb1550431 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > The Cunctator wrote:
> > > Someone please tell me how this article
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
> > >
> > > is better off not being broken up into separate entries.
> > >
> > I count four sections that are already broken off into separate entries:
> >
> > [[Camp Delta]]
> > [[Camp Iguana]]/
> > /[[Combatant Status Review Tribunal]]
> > [[Periodic Report of the United States of America to the United Nations
> > Committee Against Torture]]
> >
> > It looks like it could use more, though. Is anyone trying to stop you
> > from doing it? I don't see anything obvious in the history or talk pages
> > discussing this issue.
>
> No, I'm just whining. If the Naval Base section was broken off from
> the detention camp section i'd have less to complain about.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:19:11 -0500
> From: "The Cunctator" <cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Split tool? was Too much agglomeration
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>,       "Wikimedia
>         developers" <wikitech-l at wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <dfd0b40603151819p24e0fb79q219855128e10882a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> After whining about [[Guantanamo Bay Naval Base]] I was wondering if
> it would be possible to develop a split or clone tool; like the move
> tool but would allow a new page to be generated with the same history
> as the other one.
>
> I hate copying off tons of text from GBNB and losing the history; with
> the clone/split tool I wouldn't have that problem. I'd think it would
> be comparatively easy to implement in some clever fashion ??
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:56:15 -0500
> From: "The Cunctator" <cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Too much agglomeration
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <dfd0b40603151856y16c5b85dm64f21d2468493003 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, The Cunctator <cunctator at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/15/06, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > The Cunctator wrote:
> > > > Someone please tell me how this article
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
> > > >
> > > > is better off not being broken up into separate entries.
> > > >
> > > I count four sections that are already broken off into separate
> entries:
> > >
> > > [[Camp Delta]]
> > > [[Camp Iguana]]/
> > > /[[Combatant Status Review Tribunal]]
> > > [[Periodic Report of the United States of America to the United
> Nations
> > > Committee Against Torture]]
> > >
> > > It looks like it could use more, though. Is anyone trying to stop you
> > > from doing it? I don't see anything obvious in the history or talk
> pages
> > > discussing this issue.
> >
> > No, I'm just whining. If the Naval Base section was broken off from
> > the detention camp section i'd have less to complain about.
> >
> Okay, I did a bit but there's still tons that needs to be broken off
> and better organized.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:00:29 -0500
> From: "The Cunctator" <cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Cute mention in the NYT
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <dfd0b40603151900y555c0564xaac67f1419312844 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> >From
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/12bracket.html
>
> "Nowhere is the growth of the bracket's prestige more evident than
> with the proliferation of bracketology, a concept defined in
> Wikipedia, not Webster's."
>
> Just think that in a few generations "Wikipedia" will be the generic
> equivalent of "Webster's".
>
> Woot! (Again, defined in Wikipedia and probably not in Webster's.)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:13:16 +0000
> From: "Tony Sidaway" <f.crdfa at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Retrieving article deleted for NN
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <605709b90603152013p404f36f3i8611bb13450e1340 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Death Phoenix <originaldeathphoenix at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Me too. Basically, anyone listed in [[:Category: User undeletion]],
> which is
> > linked to {{user recovery}} (note: this is NOT a userbox).
>
> Oh yes it is!  It doesn't actually contain a table and there aren't
> any colors, but the purpose and usage are exactly the same.  Just
> because something doesn't *look* like a userbox, doesn't mean it isn't
> a userbox.  A the creator of that particular template, *I* should
> know.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:19:32 +0000
> From: "Tony Sidaway" <f.crdfa at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Retrieving article deleted for NN
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <605709b90603152019t13b98d20p8488bae6ee07e7cc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'd say that this article should *never* have been listed for
> deletion. As an article about a fairly longlived students' society
> with several established orchestras, bands and whatnot that have given
> public performances, it should have been merged to the parent article
> about the University.
>
> This is what is so frustrating about the deletion process.  Absence of
> thought is endemic.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:21:29 -0500
> From: "The Cunctator" <cunctator at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Retrieving article deleted for NN
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <dfd0b40603152021l70df398fqf72ee3eaf4474216 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >   An article dear to my heart (well, more an article about a subject
> > dear to my heart) has apparently recently deleted for non-notability.
> > Although I actually agree with that designation, I suddenly sympathise
> > with anyone who's had an article deleted! Particularly some of the
> > (good faith) remarks made on the AfD page like "Delete. It still
> > amazes me some of the topics that people think are notable." -
> >
> > Just wondering whether it's possible for me to get the content (and if
> > possible, history) of the article back? There are probably more
> > appropriate places to host it. Or maybe even trim it down and merge it
> > into some other article.
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Engineering_Music_Society
> >
> I'd just like to say I think it's pathetic this was deleted.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:22:20 -0500
> From: "Kat Walsh" <mindspillage at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Retrieving article deleted for NN
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <8e253f560603152022m17daf352uc8c6c7d22b6ea76d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/15/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hmm...now, re-reading the article (thanks very much Ben), I'm
> > wondering if the club *isn't* notable, as a community music group,
> > rather than as a university society. It's true, societies are a dime a
> > dozen. But community music groups that anyone can join (it's open to
> > non-students) are rare, and there can't be many of this size (around
> > 200 members). *thinking music*
>
> Community music groups that anyone can join are rare? I've only been a
> member of one with over 200 members, probably over 300 -- the others
> had about 80 -- but they weren't unusual and I wouldn't call any of
> them notable; they'd probably merit mention in the articles about the
> town or university they were based in, though.
>
> Not that I would nominate an article on one for deletion if it showed
> up, of course -- I'd leave that dirty work to someone else!
>
> -Kat
>
> --
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage | (G)AIM:LucidWaking
> "Once you have tasted flight you will always walk with your eyes cast
> upward. For there you have been and there you will always be."
> - Leonardo da Vinci
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
> End of WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 32, Issue 110
> *****************************************
>


list: foundation-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: W. Guy Finley

subject: [Foundation-l] "Chinese Wikimania 2006 to be held in Hong Kong"

body:
Personally I think you guys are overreacting a bit.  When I sit down in a
few weeks and watch the College World Series, the Little League World Series
or the World Series of Poker for that matter I'm not suddenly surprised when
I don't see Major League Baseball teams there.  Similarly they don't call it
"The Major League Baseball World Series", it's just the "World Series" and
everyone knows what THE World Series is just like I think people will know
what THE Wikimania is.

It pretty clearly is billed as "Chinese Wikimania" which to me implies, it's
well, er, Chinese --  not the world-wide Wikimania.  Now, "Wikimania --
China 2006" might be confusing indicating that the world-wide Wikimania is
being held in China that year.  I don't think "Chinese Wikimania" has that
effect nor would "Danish Wikimania" or "American Wikimania", etc.

Finally, as someone who has had my fill mediating China-related disputes on
EN if the greater China editors managed to get together and agree on meeting
in Hong Kong I think they could call it the World Series of Wikimania for
all I care because I think that act of getting all those different groups
together is far more important than whatever they call it.

--Guy  (EN User: Wgfinley)

On 3/16/06 2:30 AM, "Anthere" <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Angela wrote:
>> I'm pleased to see a conference in China is being planned, but this
>> and similar events really need to use a different name, both to
>> prevent confusion with the actual Wikimania, and to avoid the need for
>> each event to get permission from Wikimedia to use the name.
>>
>> Angela.
>
> I agree. We are approaching people, sponsors and so, with the idea that
> Wikimania is an ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL conference of our projects. And in
> some texts, it also says it is organised by the Wikimedia Foundation.
> It will be very confusing if many wikimanias are being organised per
> year, some with 400 participants from many countries, others with 100
> participants at a national level or why not even some wikimeet with 20
> people. This will mean a wikimania is an meetup for some wiki users. No
> more.
>
> ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] MobilED update

body:
Some of you may remember the project to bring spoken (synthesized
speech) Wikipedia content to mobile phones. Teemu Leinonen of the
University of Art and Design Helsinki, who is leading the project, has
informed me: "We already have the phone system to receive the SMS, to
do the calls back, TTP and system to record callers contributions."
The project now also has a website at:

http://mobiled.uiah.fi/

They want to run a school pilot in South Africa soon. This is a very
important project as it can bring Wikipedia content to nations with
insufficient Internet access but reasonable cell phone coverage, which
includes some developing countries. Given that the system operates by
providing a free callback after you send an SMS requesting an article,
it provides almost completely free access to the content.

As noted above, the project is envisioned to allow people to
contribute in their native language, so at some point we'll have to
talk to Teemu's team about dealing with call-in contributions on the
level of our project communities.

The website has a couple of (slightly campy) demonstration videos.
Browsing around, it seems that they are using Asterisk and a
nifty-looking open source tool called "Dialog Palette" to develop the
telephony server:

http://dialogpalette.sourceforge.net/

The idea is that anyone can set up similar telephony services for any
kind of content, using only open source software.

To keep up to date on the project's progress, you can subscribe to
their RSS feed at:
http://mobiled.uiah.fi/?feed=rss2

Regards,

Erik


subject: [Foundation-l] MobilED update


list: wikipedia-l

subject: [Wikipedia-l] MobilED update


list: wikien-l

from_name: Dan Jacobson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Captcha word quiz

body:
Regarding http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Special:Captcha/help :
it says "Please contact the site administrators for assistance if this
is unexpectedly preventing you from making legitimate posts." but
doesn't have a button to do so.

Anyway, e.g., I have images turned off in my browser, so come up with
a word quiz.

Hmm, wikibooks not wikipedia? OK sorry.


from_name: ! Chris Sherlock

subject: [Foundation-l] Copyright on Wikisource

body:
Jean-Christophe Chazalette wrote:

As I already told you, hosting material subject to copyright everywhere in
the world except in the USA is a mistake. The fact some texts by Andr? Gide
are PD-US because written before 1923 won't impress Gide's heirs. Foundation
has certainly better things to do with its money than spending it in lost
cases.
villy ~~JC
PS: and please please stop telling that the fact the servers are in the USA
is good enough to strictly care only for the US law - with the Yahoo case,
you should know better.  Foundation could be sued right here in Paris and
should spend money on explaining how it comes that its site, reachable in
France, offers copyrighted material for free.

I was under the impression that the U.S. had treaties with France and in
some circumstances will honour their laws. Is this the case or not?

Chris
TBSDY


subject: [Foundation-l] Copyright on Wikisource


from_name: Guy Chapman aka JzG

subject: [WikiEN-l] Retrieving article deleted for NN

body:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:19:32 +0000, you wrote:

>I'd say that this article should *never* have been listed for
>deletion. As an article about a fairly longlived students' society
>with several established orchestras, bands and whatnot that have given
>public performances, it should have been merged to the parent article
>about the University.

That's probably what I would have suggested too.
Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


subject: [WikiEN-l] Too much agglomeration

body:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:12:27 -0500, you wrote:

>Someone please tell me how this article
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
>is better off not being broken up into separate entries.

See that "Edit" button? ... :-)
Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


list: wikitech-l

from_name: The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodríguez

subject: [Wikitech-l] what happens to cvs-access?

body:
Hi, Carl,

I've heard that SVN is not working at the moment. In fact it is not working for me. Have you been lucky? Please, what SVN are you using? Thanks.

Cheers,

Ricardo

>>> Carl F?rstenberg<azatoth at gmail.com> 15/3/2006 21:28 >>>

Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.

On 3/15/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Public Health Alert: SourceForge anon CVS is known to be shit. And the
> regular access isn't much better, either. I expect it's borked right
> now, give it a few.
>
>
> Rob Church
>
> On 15/03/06, - Essjay - <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Having the same problem, and I hear that many others have as well. Is this a
> > problem with SourceForge?
> >
> > Essjay
> >
> > On 3/15/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > i get no access
> > >
> > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia
> > >
> > > heinz
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Essjay
> > -----
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > http://www.wikipedia.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


from_name: Anthere

body:
Angela wrote:
> I'm pleased to see a conference in China is being planned, but this
> and similar events really need to use a different name, both to
> prevent confusion with the actual Wikimania, and to avoid the need for
> each event to get permission from Wikimedia to use the name.
>
> Angela.

I agree. We are approaching people, sponsors and so, with the idea that
Wikimania is an ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL conference of our projects. And in
some texts, it also says it is organised by the Wikimedia Foundation.
It will be very confusing if many wikimanias are being organised per
year, some with 400 participants from many countries, others with 100
participants at a national level or why not even some wikimeet with 20
people. This will mean a wikimania is an meetup for some wiki users. No
more.

ant


body:
I hope we'll also see some chinese in Boston as well :-)
I could not see the information in the news. Do you have any idea how
many people you could gather ?

ant

R.O.C wrote:
> what if using "wikimedia", for example. "chinese wikimedia conference"?
>
> just to clarify that "chinese" here means ethnic chinese around the world,
> not limited to the people's republic of china or mainland china, as what
> "china" nowadays often refers to. a number of users of zh.wikipedia (along
> with other wikimedia projects in chinese language) from mainland china,
> taiwan, hong kong, malaysia, canada, united states, germany, etc. have
> expressed interests to attend.
>
> the chinese community decided to hold the conference in hong kong, which
> enjoys convenient transportation and high degree of autonomy from the
> central government in beijing. among other candidate cities were beijing,
> shanghai, and taipei. blocking of wikipedia in PRC poses
> concerns/difficulties for promoting wikimedia and organizing a conference
> within mainland china. taipei has a highly devoted local community but there
> is a difficulty also from politics that entry permits generally are not
> issued to mainland chinese.
>
> -roc (User:R.O.C)
>
> 2006/3/16, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:
>
>> I'm pleased to see a conference in China is being planned, but this
>>and similar events really need to use a different name, both to
>>prevent confusion with the actual Wikimania, and to avoid the need for
>>each event to get permission from Wikimedia to use the name.
>>
>>Angela.
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>


from_name: Kraaij, W. (Wessel)

subject: [Wikitech-l] wikipedia search logs and clickthrough data

body:
Wikipedia has become a popular data resource for research in IR, natural
language processing, knowledge discovery etc. etc. Wikipedia is
especially attractive because of its open nature.

I was wondering whether search logs on wikipedia and the corresponding
clickthrough data, (e.g. disambiguation pages etc) coulde be made
available to the research community in an anonymized form (e.g. with the
IP address mapped to a unique number). The objective is to derive
meaningful statistics from the combination of server log files and
webpage content, e.g. correlations between search terms and accessed
pages, temporal patterns, navigation patterns etc. The analysis could
help to improve the user's search experience on wikipedia.

--Wessel Kraaij

This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html


from_name: The Cunctator

subject: [Wikitech-l] Split tool? was Too much agglomeration

body:
On 3/16/06, Adrian Buehlmann <adrian at cadifra.com> wrote:
> "Brion Vibber" wrote:
> > Obviously duplicating tens of thousands of revisions of page history on
> > Wikipedia would be incredibly wasteful and expensive.
>
> Indeed. But a mechanism to link/share history data (branching) would do it.

Exactly. I'm sure that Brion understands that the concept of data
references. Admittedly, it does make life harder, but there should be
a way to do it.


body:
On 3/16/06, The Cunctator <cunctator at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/16/06, Adrian Buehlmann <adrian at cadifra.com> wrote:
> > "Brion Vibber" wrote:
> > > Obviously duplicating tens of thousands of revisions of page history on
> > > Wikipedia would be incredibly wasteful and expensive.
> >
> > Indeed. But a mechanism to link/share history data (branching) would do it.
>
> Exactly. I'm sure that Brion understands that the concept of data
> references. Admittedly, it does make life harder, but there should be
> a way to do it.
>
A really dumb thing that would get some of the way there would just
add an element in the history with the comment "Split from [[Original
article]] revision [[permanent link]]". Then people could navigate
back to that and the chain would be unbroken. Much simpler than the
database having to be smart.


from_name: Adrian Buehlmann

body:
"Brion Vibber" wrote:
> Obviously duplicating tens of thousands of revisions of page history on
> Wikipedia would be incredibly wasteful and expensive.

Indeed. But a mechanism to link/share history data (branching) would do it.


from_name: Steve Bennett

body:
On 3/16/06, Tony Sidaway <f.crdfa at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd say that this article should *never* have been listed for
> deletion. As an article about a fairly longlived students' society
> with several established orchestras, bands and whatnot that have given
> public performances, it should have been merged to the parent article
> about the University.

Well, if not the University, then either the Union (which funds it),
or some more specialized article (the Union article is, um, an
interesting place at the moment with no room for clubs ;)) about clubs
and societies of the union.

For those not familiar with Australian student union structures, the
student life on campus is usually run/supported/funded by a Student
Union, which is not really a union in the traditional sense. The
university itself usually tries to keep itself quite separate,
probably to avoid students doing silly things that would tarnish their
reputation...

Steve


from_name: Brion Vibber

body:
Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
> Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.

My experience trying to get us set up on the SVN beta program was not great:

* Our repo didn't import cleanly, we needed manual intervention. If we wanted to
switch for real now we'd need to get it wiped and manually imported again. This
took a few days on the limited-participation beta.

* The mail notification script was badly configured and they've locked down
plugins so much you can't customize it, so we had to wait a couple weeks for
them to change the options to include a diff.

* It took about a month after we requested it to set up the plugin for CIA-bot,
something we could have done ourselves in a few minutes if they hadn't chosen
the locked-down configuration they did.

So if we do switch, I'm more inclined to set up our own server than to use
SourceForge's SVN.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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subject: [Wikitech-l] Wikidata/WiktionaryZ code and data

body:
I've prepared a tarball that includes the code and data of the current
read-only Wikidata/WiktionaryZ prototype running on wiktionaryz.org, as
well as table documentation and the script that was used to import the
data from the GEMET multilingual thesaurus. If you're interested in
importing data into WiktionaryZ, this should give you the basic
information you need to start writing your own scripts. It can be
downloaded here:

http://epov.org/wd-gemet.tgz

A first prototype demonstrating basic editability should follow soon.

Regards,

Erik


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

subject: [Wikitech-l] Database redundancy

body:
On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 01:00:26PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
> > What is the general consensus on Oracle?
>
> From what I hear on the interweb, they are devil-people who eat babies.

I believe you mispelt "intarweb".

(And "teh", come to think of it)

How about PostGreSQL?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

	A: No.
	Q: Should I include quotations after my message body?


body:
Adrian Buehlmann wrote:
> "Brion Vibber" wrote:
>> So if we do switch, I'm more inclined to set up our own server than to use
>> SourceForge's SVN.
>
> If you are setting up your own server (which would be certainly the best thing to do),
> you might want to have a look at www.perforce.com. It is commercial, closed source,

That'll be a no, then. :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:54:35 +1100, you wrote:

>> I think in this case it might be worth creating a University of
>> Melbourne Clubs and Societies article, because I could mount a genuine
>> case that the C&S at U of M actually *are* notable as a group.

>Absolutely, this was suggested a while ago on the talk page, IIRC, but
>noone has gotten around to it yet. We totally need coverage of More
>Beer!

I'm certainly in favour of covering university clubs and societies in
this way, as long as people can resist the temptation to name-check
all their friends and document the many unique ways in which they get
drunk.  Unless they really are unique, of course.  I suppose we could
have a university-club-template - {{{clubname}}} is a university club,
it organises pub-crawls, its officers are elected annually, it is part
of the students' union at {{{university}}}.  Subst that in and no
further effort is required for most of them :-)
Guy (JzG)
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG


body:
>We don't keep such logs at this time. There is no record of
clickthroughs.

Hi Brion,

with clickthrough data, I meant navigation data *within* the wikipedia
site.
I assume that wikipedia is running on Apache, producing standard
access.log files. User sessions can be reconstructed (albeit not
completely reliable) from the Apache logfiles.

Wessel

This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tno.nl/disclaimer/email.html


body:
On 3/16/06, Kraaij, W. (Wessel) <wessel.kraaij at tno.nl> wrote:
> >We don't keep such logs at this time. There is no record of
> clickthroughs.
>
> Hi Brion,
>
> with clickthrough data, I meant navigation data *within* the wikipedia
> site.
> I assume that wikipedia is running on Apache, producing standard
> access.log files. User sessions can be reconstructed (albeit not
> completely reliable) from the Apache logfiles.

Wikipedia gets so many squillions of hits that for performance they've
switched off *all* recording of page views, clicks etc. So, your
assumption is incorrect ;)

There are a few people that would be interested in analysing these
logs, but I gather it's just not practical at the moment. They would
get too big too quickly, and the time in writing all that data is not
negligeable either. Or something.

Steve


from_name: Delphine Ménard

body:
A few random thoughts about this.

I am extremely happy that the Asian continents, and the Chinese
particularly, are working on such a project.

As a matter of fact, I believe that local "Wikimanias" or local
"Wikimedia conferences" should be held on a very regular basis, in
order to strengthen the community around the world and regionally.

I have been thinking about these extensively thanks to Effeitsanders
who has launched the idea of the "Wikimania reloaded" (working name)
in the Netherlands and has many times asked for my input, which I
scarcely gave (I didn't know what to say). So here are my thoughts
about the whole idea, now that I have thought about it.

I believe regional conferences should be planned with the Foundation
for many reasons:
1) I find it a bit sad having two conferences (or three, as is) so
close together. The idea of having a "worldwide conference" should not
be impeeded by other conferences around the world, because it:
a) spreads the attendance
b) spreads the sponsors
c) spreads the speakers
d) somehow defeats the whole point of having a world-wide conference
(why would I go to Boston or Frankfurt if there is a conference nearer
to me three weeks afterwards?)
And anyway, it is using the trademarks, so the Foundation should have
an input in it, especially where local chapters are not present, so as
to make sure that the name and spirit is used in the right way (not to
mention the logos ;-) )

In the end, I believe working together allows synergy. Working each in
our own little corner thins out the efforts. I urge the organizers of
the Chinese conference to get in touch with the Board to explain what
they want to do and how, so that we can coordinate all of this.

2) I am more in favour of an "Olympic Games" type thing, where we'd
have say Wikimania as an annual worldwide wikimedia conference once
every 4 years (or 2, or 6, I don't know) and then in the years in
between as many local conferences as there are people ready to
organize them.

That's for the grand scheme.

On the more specific matter of trademark and logo use for the Chinese
Conference:

1) Why use the Wikipedia logo if it is a Wikimedia conference?
2) I've changed the licence on the poster to a dual licence
{{copyrightbyWikimedia]] for the logo and CC-BY-SA for the design.

Best,

Delphine
(who still hopes to see Chinese and Dutch in Boston :-( )

--
~notafish


from_name: Patrick, Brad

body:
Bonne chance, mes amis!

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anthere
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:46 PM
To: foundation-l at wikimedia.org
Subject: [Foundation-l] Special project committee open for business

The Special Projects Committee is open for business.

The special projects committee (SPCom) has been created by the Board
along with other Wikimedia committees.

Its scope may be described as

1. Distribution of Wikimedia project's content (DVD, Printed,
mirrors...), with or without partners (Wikijunior grant, publishing
company)

2 Coordination of Wikimedia projets and possible partner projects to
share and connect content (e.g. Internet Archive, runeberg, libraries,
dictionary data for Wiktionary, movies and images for commons,
geographical data......)

3 Coordination between other committees and researchers to analyse the
projects, in particular when technical or legal issues are involved
(e.g. logs, stats......)

4 Coordination of projects between outside agents and the Foundation for
technical or financial benefits of parties (e.g. feeds to mirror sites,
which pay the Foundation regularly for our materials, answers.com, yahoo
search)

5 Assistance to improve/finance/start a new project proposal
(wikiversity, wikidata...), with implication of outside parties or not

6 Evaluation and incubation of other projects, new concepts, new events,
and ideas, to be handled to other committees if considered interesting
(eg, a conference in arab country next year to event committee)

7 Assist the Foundation in the fulfilment of its philanthropic mission
of providing free knowledge to people everywhere.

The committee is currently composed of Jakob, Danny, Aurevilly, Oscar,
Cormac, Andrew Lih, Muriel, SJ and myself.

Along with this committee, subcommittees will be created as issues
arise. Two subcommittees are under creation, one will be dedicated to
Wikiversity and the other one to the MobiLed partnership also mentionned

today. We may be involved in some of the projects proposed by Gerard as
well, WiktionaryZ and InstantCommons.

You are invited to see more about the committee here :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_projects_committee

Input is welcome, as well as proposals.
Keeping in mind that we are still in the process of defining our
procedures so that the committee will run smoothly and effectively. So,
please, do not pressure us :-)

Greetings.

Anthere

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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subject: [Foundation-l] Special project committee open for business


from_name: Matt Brown

subject: [WikiEN-l] Should AfD pages be blanked?

body:
Ah good, that got fixed.  Must have missed the announcement.

-Matt


body:
On 3/16/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> I'm certainly in favour of covering university clubs and societies in
> this way, as long as people can resist the temptation to name-check
> all their friends and document the many unique ways in which they get
> drunk.  Unless they really are unique, of course.  I suppose we could
> have a university-club-template - {{{clubname}}} is a university club,
> it organises pub-crawls, its officers are elected annually, it is part
> of the students' union at {{{university}}}.  Subst that in and no
> further effort is required for most of them :-)

Pub crawls! That's a great idea! Wait till I contact "the guys"!

Steve


from_name: Ryan Delaney

subject:
[WikiEN-l] When Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 2.5
	license makes sense

body:
On 3/14/06, guru brahma <wikibra at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> Sometime back, there was a discussion about the unusual license of
> http://www.panopedia.org/index.php/Panopedia. Within the context of
> Wikipedia, I was wondering if this license makes any sense at all. I think
> there are some instances where this MAY make sense. For example, images
> tagged as GFDL-self could be tagged this way. If I make an image, that is,
> take a photograph of a leader or an actor I adore and do not want it to be
> photoshopped into some unknown monstrosity, I would be more comfortable in
> using Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 2.5 license. The same would
> apply to personal images that I upload on to my userpage. The last thing I
> want to see in my image my moustache disappear or a beard appear ;). Any
> thoughts which other areas this admittedly over-restrictive license can be
> used if at all allowed on wikipedia?
>

I don't see any need for this. If you take a picture of Eddie Van Halen, and
someone photoshops a beard and a corncob pipe onto it, you can be for damn
sure that this image won't be apperaing on Wikipedia. And since people do
this stuff all the time anyway without any kind of legal permission, you
won't be any worse off by indirectly permitting it anyway. No one is going
to see the image except a few of the joker's friends.

The only place where this is really different is when we are trying to
rework an image for legitimate purposes, and this license only introduces
barriers to that. There is no benefit to the project really.

The bottom line is that who are highly protective of their intellectual
property probably should not be contributing it to Wikipedia.

Ryan


from_name: Death Phoenix

body:
I stand corrected. As a user of this template, however, I would say that it
VISUALLY does not resemble a userbox, even though its usage matches that of
a userbox, so I'll continue to list it on my user page rather than my
/Userboxes page.

On 3/15/06, Tony Sidaway <f.crdfa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/15/06, Death Phoenix <originaldeathphoenix at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Me too. Basically, anyone listed in [[:Category: User undeletion]],
> which is
> > linked to {{user recovery}} (note: this is NOT a userbox).
>
> Oh yes it is!  It doesn't actually contain a table and there aren't
> any colors, but the purpose and usage are exactly the same.  Just
> because something doesn't *look* like a userbox, doesn't mean it isn't
> a userbox.  A the creator of that particular template, *I* should
> know.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Rob Church

subject: [Wikitech-l] CVS snapshots

body:
Ah, good. I was considering offering to upload stuff somewhere too,
but it'll look better coming off a Wikimedia-owned domain.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> Since SourceForge's anonymous CVS servers have been on the fritz for a couple
> days, I'll be periodically uploading snapshot tarballs of the source from CVS
> HEAD here until it's fixed or we give up on it:
>
> http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/snapshot/
>
> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>


body:
We *aren't* using the SVN service at this time.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> Hi, Carl,
>
> I've heard that SVN is not working at the moment. In fact it is not working for me. Have you been lucky? Please, what SVN are you using? Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ricardo
>
> >>> Carl F?rstenberg<azatoth at gmail.com> 15/3/2006 21:28 >>>
>
> Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.
>
> On 3/15/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Public Health Alert: SourceForge anon CVS is known to be shit. And the
> > regular access isn't much better, either. I expect it's borked right
> > now, give it a few.
> >
> >
> > Rob Church
> >
> > On 15/03/06, - Essjay - <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Having the same problem, and I hear that many others have as well. Is this a
> > > problem with SourceForge?
> > >
> > > Essjay
> > >
> > > On 3/15/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i get no access
> > > >
> > > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia
> > > >
> > > > heinz
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Essjay
> > > -----
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > http://www.wikipedia.org/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


subject: [Wikitech-l] Using (my own) wiki within an IFRame

body:
Heinz wrote:
> because of migrating to an other domain i would like to know how it is
> possible to use the visible content of the new domain within the old
> domain.

Normally one just uses an HTTP redirect to forward requests to the new location.
See the documentation for your web server.

> i tested IFrames, but they dont work for mediawiki-enviroments.

Did you check the FAQ?

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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body:
On 3/16/06, KJ <kaurjmeb at gmail.com> wrote:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83
>
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
> PS:If you cann't read this latter very well.....that is one of the reasons
> why Chinese Wikipedians need a Chinese Wikipedian's Conference.
>
>
> --
> KaurJmeb(KJ)
> ???????http://zh.wikipedia.org
> KJ???????????http://www.wretch.cc/blog/kaurjmeb
> ???????~

Just for the record. I'm French, I live in Germany, and I write here
in English. So language problems are not exactly something I am a
stranger to.

I am sorry if my email came across wrongly. I *am* in favour of a
Wikimedia Conference in China, as well as the existence of a local
chapter if anyone wants to launch one. I just wish that we could do
this *together*.

And yes, I am *damn* aware of the problems Chinese people may
encounter entering the United States. I am just concerned that knowing
they have a conference three weeks later, they won't bug *us* (the
FOundation) enough to make things change and allow them to participate
*also* in Boston.

Cheers,

Delphine

--
~notafish


from_name: Tim 'avatar' Bartel

body:
Hi wikipedians,

Steve Bennett schrieb am 16.03.2006 13:44:
> There are a few people that would be interested in analysing these
              ^^^ a lot of
> logs, but I gather it's just not practical at the moment.

Bye, Tim.

--
Wenn Sie nicht ueber die Zukunft nachdenken,
koennen Sie keine haben.
-> John Galsworthy
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from_name: Heinz

subject: [Wikitech-l] export Spezial:Allmessages to language.php

body:
Does there exist out there a solution for an export of
"Spezial:Allmessages" to a language.php file?

thx-Heinz


body:
1. Special:Allmessages
2. Click "PHP" view

This produces the PHP for the messages file (1.6) or languages file
(1.5) which can be pasted in.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> Does there exist out there a solution for an export of
> "Spezial:Allmessages" to a language.php file?
>
> thx-Heinz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


from_name: Tony Sidaway

body:
On 3/16/06, Steve Bennett <stevage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For those not familiar with Australian student union structures, the
> student life on campus is usually run/supported/funded by a Student
> Union, which is not really a union in the traditional sense. The
> university itself usually tries to keep itself quite separate,
> probably to avoid students doing silly things that would tarnish their
> reputation...

This sounds pretty much like the British model.  I've no idea what
other countries do, but the rule I learned is: if it involves wine and
cheese, it's Faculty; if it involves beer and the kind of girls who
don't stand around eating cheese, it's Union.


body:
it was a mess, a huge mess, but gladly we are now working together to
address it and fix it. if i were a director or officer of the foundation, i
would not feel good if i suddenly learned from the newspaper that the
chinese or any other local community on the very projects of foundation had
been planning something formal without sharing ideas and information with
the foundation and moreover some people had used a foundation trademark
without prior agreement! there were miscommunications and there are
misunderstandings.

i'm a chinese wikipedian who would like to keep anonymity at the moment (my
user page is at http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:R.O.C), and i have not
participated much in the organization of this chinese conference. but i
would like to help sorting the matter out since i understand both chinese
and english. here is some information that i would like to provide.

1) it is now realized that the chinese organizers were not keeping in touch
with the foundation, but they have been reporting everything on a wikipedia
project page (
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83)
in chinese. the working language for the organizers has to be chinese since
few of them can use english efficiently and effectively. i will work on a
english translation page on meta as informational briefs this saturday. (of
course any help with setting it up sooner would be greatly appreciated.)

2) the chinese organizers and the community at large have since the starting
of the projects been cohering strongly with the ideas/goals/policies of the
foundation -- because we share these same values: free and open sources,
neutrality and mutual respect among many others. this is true even if it is
not conveyed to the foundation since we have not expressed it much in
english. indeed, very few people know about this mailing list -- as an
administrator and keen user on zh.wikipedia i did not even know about it
until ~3 months ago (how shameful) and have not really utilize it until
yesterday. i can tell that the chinese community wants to develop the
chinese projects together with the foundation and the international
community at large, and this intention/dedication has never changed.

3) frankly, i believe that the difference between english and chinese
languages are larger than that between any two western european languages.
even though many chinese in modern mainland china and taiwan start to learn
english before primary schools, the lack of live language environment makes
it difficult for most of them to communicate in english with an acceptable
efficiency. just imagine if asking a native english speaker write in
chinese.

4) (partly from KJ's message) contributors to the chinese wikimedia projects
mostly reside in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong, and the remaining
small portion locates mostly in north america, europe, and southeast asia.
the zh.wikipedia editors and administrators communicate mainly by instant
messagers online besides the wikimedia pages. many of them would like to
meet and discuss in person about problems, development, and public promotion
of wikimedia projects in chinese. many of the issues cannot be efficiently
addressed in an online meeting, a local meeting, or an international
conference. there are borders and the travel is not easy between these
separate judicial regions, so it would not be as easy or little work as a
local meet-up or a country meet-up. but the chinese community feels the need
for such a conference and believes in its benefits for better development of
wikimedia projects in future, so they would like to pursue it despite of all
difficulties.

5) (partly from KJ's message) the chinese community decided by vote after
discussion to hold the conference 3 weeks after the international meeting.
there were several considerations.

5.1) due to limited economical abilities and some visa issues, few (if not
zero) contributors in mainland china will be able to attend the
international conference. the traveling cost to boston is not a small number
for most contributors in taiwan or hong kong, either; but the traveling cost
to/in HK would be affordable. those users who can make it for wikimania are
likely to be able to travel to HK, but most users who will attend the
chinese conference would not have the ability to attend wikimania even if
there was no conference in HK. basically, holding a chinese conference in HK
would not distract attendees to wikimania in boston.

5.2) the working language on the chinese conference will be chinese
(probably mandarin) due to practical reasons. english interpreting service
might be offered if there is such a need and the ability. the chinese
conference will probably target largely on local or chinese
firms/organizations for sponsorship/support. so i do not feel that the
chinese conference will divert speakers or much of sponsoring
fund/resources.

5.3) the chinese community decided to hold the conference after wikimania so
that the few attendees of both conferences can report what they have learned
from wikimania to the chinese community. i think that it will actually
expand the mission and influence of wikimedia and wikimania.

5.4) many chinese contributors are college students, so holding the chinese
conference in august when they are still in summer vacation will make it
convenient for both attendees and volunteers.

6) I agree that the organization of the chinese conference has been a little
loose. i also agree that we should keep each other informed of what is going
on in a timely and efficient manner. some chinese users as individuals have
used the foundation's intellectual properties without obtaining prior
consent, eg, the "wikimania" in the provisional english name and the
wikipedia logo in the hong kong bidding poster.

6.1) i have talked to some chinese organizers and learned that there will be
better organization and managements with regards to accountability.

6.2) a meta page about the chinese conference will be set up (before this
saturday) for information and english media releases. chief chinese
organizers will also use the foundation-l or other appropriate mailing lists
for communications of ideas with the foundation and other communities. I
have agreed to help identify and bridge any language difficulties / culture
gaps between the two parts of our community.

6.3) i hope that the community can help choosing an english translation for
the chinese name of conference, in accordance with foundation policies. the
chinese community/conference would like to seek the authorization for using
names/trademarks of the foundation, if needed. the name of the chinese
conference is "??????" (literally, "chinese language wikipedia/wikimedia
annual conference").

6.3.1) i personally prefer the name "chinese wikimedia conference" and would
like to know the procedures for seeking permissions from the foundation
regarding the use of "wikimedia". there is no local chapters serving chinese
projects at the moment (may not be any time soon either).

6.4) as explained earlier, the english (or western) word of "wikimania" had
been interpreted and understood in chinese differently as it is supposed to
be. the organizers and chinese users have been informed at zh.wikipedia that
wikimania does not mean "wikimedia conference", but "international wikimedia
conference" (sponsored by wikimedia foundation); it is also a trading name
of wikimedia foundation instead of a generic term.

hope that this is helpful.

roc (User:R.O.C)
--

? 2006/3/16?Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> ???
> KJ wrote:
> > ????????????????????
> >
> >
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> >
> >
??????????????2006???????????????????????????????--???????--???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> >
> >
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> >
> > ???????????????????????????????????
> >
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83
> >
> > ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
> >
> > PS:If you cann't read this latter very well.....that is one of the
reasons
> > why Chinese Wikipedians need a Chinese Wikipedian's Conference.
> >
> >
> > --
> > KaurJmeb(KJ)
>
> KJ... Absolutely no one questions the fact chinese editors want a
> conference :-) It is *good* that your community is now big enough and
> united enough to do one.
> Our only worries are that there might be a confusion of names between
> conferences (this has been cleared up) and that three meetings are done
> nearly at the same time.
>
> At least in Europe, meetings are frequent, and I am sure will be more
> and more frequent as time.
> Most of these meetings are restricted to one language only. German
> editors had several meetings (in german). Dutch editors had several
> meetings (in dutch/english). French editors had several meetings as well
> (in french)...
> Of course, chinese editors *should* have meetings as well.
>
> Also, you must absolutely believe we understand the language problem.
> Many of those posting on this list are not primarily english speaking.
> In the recent posters, Delphine, Yann, Jean-Christophe, Jean-Baptiste,
> myself are French. Erik, Mathias are Germans. Gerard and Walter are
> Dutch. Aphaia is Japanese. Shizao is Chinese. Some of us are good in
> english. Others are not very good. And we all belong to communities
> where many people do not speak english at all. French people generally
> are *bad* in english. Those of us who can speak english can help bridge
> between communities.
>
> I hope you (and other chinese who speak english) will post here more
> often. We need you and your input. Last year in Frankfurt, Theodorian
> and others came and told us about the chinese community. You may do the
> same. And I'll tell you about the french ;-)
>
> ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


from_name: Ray Saintonge

body:
THD wrote:

>Chinese wikipedia community is still young and small. Chinese
>wikipedians are seperated by historic and political factors. Taking me
>as an example, in the past, I couldn't imagine I can join a project
>and work together with people from the "Hostile the Other side of the
>Strait". Then, we argued and had many conflicts in the Chinese
>Wikipedia. And now, we are trying to see each other to make friends,
>to share the knowledge of intellectual property rights, the new
>discoveries of wiki technologies, and to exchange opinions of managing
>and promoting the wikipedia and all the projects which Wikimedia
>foundation hosts, in our conservative society and even in an
>environment where PRC government banned Wikipedia.
>
This is what it is all about!

While I do not agree with the actions of the PRC government in this, I
can understand why they might be doing it.  It is still better than in
North Korea where as far as I can tell they avoid the problem by having
no public access to the internet at all.  During the time of the Shu
Jing the government could feel secure through it's control of the
calendar.  Being unable to control the public's access to information
can be very scary for governments who no longer would have the ability
to control the results.  When  the people cpme to an understanding by
themselves without the help of government, what need do we have of
governments?

>I admit the importance to work together. But I don't think we should
>do the same thing together all the time. After the wikimania in
>Boston, it's time to spread to strenthen the power of Wikimedia.
>
That's for the affected people to resolve.  I will not be attending this
event in Hong Kong, so my opinion does not matter.

Ec


body:
R.O.C.:

Thank you for this excellent summary.

In answer to the one question you ask about "Wikimedia" - this is also a trademark of the Foundation.  It is usually used in this sense to mean more than just Wikipedia, the encyclopedia project.  Of course, one of the major advances of zh. Is the new Chinese Wikinews site, so it is entirely appropriate for the conference to give people interested in any wiki issues the opportunity to communicate about any project.

I am absolutely not the right person to make any decisions about the use of trademarks; my strict legal opinion is that the Foundation does own the marks and is within its rights to license their use.  Personally, I can think of nothing better to help advance Wikiprojects in Chinese than allowing for the use of these marks to promote the sites.  I leave it to those closest to the conference on the Chinese side and the Chapter Coordinator/Wikimania project leader and her associates to work out the details of this.  The trademark committee knows it has my meager legal blessing in proceeding with a license for the August 2006 HK event at full speed.

I can't thank you enough for your eloquent and obviously heart-felt interest in bridging the gap between these two populations.  You are to be congratulated.

-BradP

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of R.O.C
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:02 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] "Chinese Wikimania 2006 to be held in Hong Kong"

it was a mess, a huge mess, but gladly we are now working together to address it and fix it. if i were a director or officer of the foundation, i would not feel good if i suddenly learned from the newspaper that the chinese or any other local community on the very projects of foundation had been planning something formal without sharing ideas and information with the foundation and moreover some people had used a foundation trademark without prior agreement! there were miscommunications and there are misunderstandings.

i'm a chinese wikipedian who would like to keep anonymity at the moment (my user page is at http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:R.O.C), and i have not participated much in the organization of this chinese conference. but i would like to help sorting the matter out since i understand both chinese and english. here is some information that i would like to provide.

1) it is now realized that the chinese organizers were not keeping in touch with the foundation, but they have been reporting everything on a wikipedia project page (
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83)
in chinese. the working language for the organizers has to be chinese since few of them can use english efficiently and effectively. i will work on a english translation page on meta as informational briefs this saturday. (of course any help with setting it up sooner would be greatly appreciated.)

2) the chinese organizers and the community at large have since the starting of the projects been cohering strongly with the ideas/goals/policies of the foundation -- because we share these same values: free and open sources, neutrality and mutual respect among many others. this is true even if it is not conveyed to the foundation since we have not expressed it much in english. indeed, very few people know about this mailing list -- as an administrator and keen user on zh.wikipedia i did not even know about it until ~3 months ago (how shameful) and have not really utilize it until yesterday. i can tell that the chinese community wants to develop the chinese projects together with the foundation and the international community at large, and this intention/dedication has never changed.

3) frankly, i believe that the difference between english and chinese languages are larger than that between any two western european languages.
even though many chinese in modern mainland china and taiwan start to learn english before primary schools, the lack of live language environment makes it difficult for most of them to communicate in english with an acceptable efficiency. just imagine if asking a native english speaker write in chinese.

4) (partly from KJ's message) contributors to the chinese wikimedia projects mostly reside in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong, and the remaining small portion locates mostly in north america, europe, and southeast asia.
the zh.wikipedia editors and administrators communicate mainly by instant messagers online besides the wikimedia pages. many of them would like to meet and discuss in person about problems, development, and public promotion of wikimedia projects in chinese. many of the issues cannot be efficiently addressed in an online meeting, a local meeting, or an international conference. there are borders and the travel is not easy between these separate judicial regions, so it would not be as easy or little work as a local meet-up or a country meet-up. but the chinese community feels the need for such a conference and believes in its benefits for better development of wikimedia projects in future, so they would like to pursue it despite of all difficulties.

5) (partly from KJ's message) the chinese community decided by vote after discussion to hold the conference 3 weeks after the international meeting.
there were several considerations.

5.1) due to limited economical abilities and some visa issues, few (if not
zero) contributors in mainland china will be able to attend the international conference. the traveling cost to boston is not a small number for most contributors in taiwan or hong kong, either; but the traveling cost to/in HK would be affordable. those users who can make it for wikimania are likely to be able to travel to HK, but most users who will attend the chinese conference would not have the ability to attend wikimania even if there was no conference in HK. basically, holding a chinese conference in HK would not distract attendees to wikimania in boston.

5.2) the working language on the chinese conference will be chinese (probably mandarin) due to practical reasons. english interpreting service might be offered if there is such a need and the ability. the chinese conference will probably target largely on local or chinese firms/organizations for sponsorship/support. so i do not feel that the chinese conference will divert speakers or much of sponsoring fund/resources.

5.3) the chinese community decided to hold the conference after wikimania so that the few attendees of both conferences can report what they have learned from wikimania to the chinese community. i think that it will actually expand the mission and influence of wikimedia and wikimania.

5.4) many chinese contributors are college students, so holding the chinese conference in august when they are still in summer vacation will make it convenient for both attendees and volunteers.

6) I agree that the organization of the chinese conference has been a little loose. i also agree that we should keep each other informed of what is going on in a timely and efficient manner. some chinese users as individuals have used the foundation's intellectual properties without obtaining prior consent, eg, the "wikimania" in the provisional english name and the wikipedia logo in the hong kong bidding poster.

6.1) i have talked to some chinese organizers and learned that there will be better organization and managements with regards to accountability.

6.2) a meta page about the chinese conference will be set up (before this
saturday) for information and english media releases. chief chinese organizers will also use the foundation-l or other appropriate mailing lists for communications of ideas with the foundation and other communities. I have agreed to help identify and bridge any language difficulties / culture gaps between the two parts of our community.

6.3) i hope that the community can help choosing an english translation for the chinese name of conference, in accordance with foundation policies. the chinese community/conference would like to seek the authorization for using names/trademarks of the foundation, if needed. the name of the chinese conference is "?????S??????" (literally, "chinese language wikipedia/wikimedia annual conference").

6.3.1) i personally prefer the name "chinese wikimedia conference" and would like to know the procedures for seeking permissions from the foundation regarding the use of "wikimedia". there is no local chapters serving chinese projects at the moment (may not be any time soon either).

6.4) as explained earlier, the english (or western) word of "wikimania" had been interpreted and understood in chinese differently as it is supposed to be. the organizers and chinese users have been informed at zh.wikipedia that wikimania does not mean "wikimedia conference", but "international wikimedia conference" (sponsored by wikimedia foundation); it is also a trading name of wikimedia foundation instead of a generic term.

hope that this is helpful.

roc (User:R.O.C)
--

?? 2006/3/16??Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> ??????
> KJ wrote:
> > ?P???????????}?????????????????????f????
> >
> >
???????????N???????k?????????????????????W???????????????c?????S?????????????????????????????????????????????????????S???A???????????????c?????S?????????????????????????????????????????????N???r???????w???j???????????????????@???????????????K?????????????S???????????Q?A???h?????????????}??
> >
> >
???????????N???????r?g?x????2006???H?S?????w???????N?????@?????]???K?????????????S????????????--???e??????????--?????????H?S?????w?????????????????r?g???????H?S?????w?????????????????]?????????????S?????????]?????????????W???????????r?g???????????g???e?k???_???r?g?K???I?????M?????Q?????????_?????????S?????????x?????r?g?????x?????H?S?????w?????????????????????????????????H?S?????w???????S?????????????o?????c???S????????????????
> >
> >
???????????Y???????S???????????????????H?S?????w???????????????????????????????????????????????????S???????c?????H?S?????w???????I???????????????????e?k???????S????????
> >
> > ???????P?????????????S???????I?k?^???????h?????????????_???S??????????
> >
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83
> >
> > ???A???????????????D?????H?S?????w???????????????c?????????????????????o?????S?????????????h???x?x??
> >
> > PS:If you cann't read this latter very well.....that is one of the
reasons
> > why Chinese Wikipedians need a Chinese Wikipedian's Conference.
> >
> >
> > --
> > KaurJmeb(KJ)
>
> KJ... Absolutely no one questions the fact chinese editors want a
> conference :-) It is *good* that your community is now big enough and
> united enough to do one.
> Our only worries are that there might be a confusion of names between
> conferences (this has been cleared up) and that three meetings are
> done nearly at the same time.
>
> At least in Europe, meetings are frequent, and I am sure will be more
> and more frequent as time.
> Most of these meetings are restricted to one language only. German
> editors had several meetings (in german). Dutch editors had several
> meetings (in dutch/english). French editors had several meetings as
> well (in french)...
> Of course, chinese editors *should* have meetings as well.
>
> Also, you must absolutely believe we understand the language problem.
> Many of those posting on this list are not primarily english speaking.
> In the recent posters, Delphine, Yann, Jean-Christophe, Jean-Baptiste,
> myself are French. Erik, Mathias are Germans. Gerard and Walter are
> Dutch. Aphaia is Japanese. Shizao is Chinese. Some of us are good in
> english. Others are not very good. And we all belong to communities
> where many people do not speak english at all. French people generally
> are *bad* in english. Those of us who can speak english can help
> bridge between communities.
>
> I hope you (and other chinese who speak english) will post here more
> often. We need you and your input. Last year in Frankfurt, Theodorian
> and others came and told us about the chinese community. You may do
> the same. And I'll tell you about the french ;-)
>
> ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.


body:
And it was good.

-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Sam Korn
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 4:30 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] "Chinese Wikimania 2006 to be held in Hong
Kong"

On 3/16/06, SJ <2.718281828 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the beginning there were Logos,

And the Logos were with Jimbo and the Logos were Jimbo?

--
Sam
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer under IRS Circular 230: Unless expressly stated otherwise in this transmission, nothing contained in this message is intended or written to be used, nor may it be relied upon or used, (1) by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended and/or (2) by any person to support the promotion or marketing of or to recommend any Federal tax transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed in this message.

If you desire a formal opinion on a particular tax matter for the purpose of avoiding the imposition of any penalties, we will discuss the additional Treasury requirements that must be met and whether it is possible to meet those requirements under the circumstances, as well as the anticipated time and additional fees involved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confidentiality Disclaimer: This e-mail message and any attachments are private communication sent by a law firm, Fowler White Boggs Banker P.A., and may contain confidential, legally privileged information meant solely for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message, then delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. Thank you.


body:
Read this not as an official statement, but rather, what I know of it...

We were going to move to SVN, and were on the beta programme. Our
repository was imported, but Brion halted the use of SVN, citing the
lack of decent email notification and the lack of support for the CIA
notification bots, both of which we use - the latter with diffs - to
keep track of things. So we continued to use CVS.

I hear those issues are now cleaned up, but the SVN repository is now
very out of date. I don't know what the future plans are to move to
it; all I know is that we're using CVS right now.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> Thanks, Rob. It seems that I've missed something...
>
> >From Carl's message "Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access". So, must I read that SourceForge SVN service is much better than its CVS service but MediaWiki is not using it?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> >>> Rob Church<robchur at gmail.com> 16/3/2006 16:18 >>>
>
> We *aren't* using the SVN service at this time.
>
>
> Rob Church
>
> On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> > Hi, Carl,
> >
> > I've heard that SVN is not working at the moment. In fact it is not working for me. Have you been lucky? Please, what SVN are you using? Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ricardo
> >
> > >>> Carl F?rstenberg<azatoth at gmail.com> 15/3/2006 21:28 >>>
> >
> > Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.
> >
> > On 3/15/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Public Health Alert: SourceForge anon CVS is known to be shit. And the
> > > regular access isn't much better, either. I expect it's borked right
> > > now, give it a few.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob Church
> > >
> > > On 15/03/06, - Essjay - <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Having the same problem, and I hear that many others have as well. Is this a
> > > > problem with SourceForge?
> > > >
> > > > Essjay
> > > >
> > > > On 3/15/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > i get no access
> > > > >
> > > > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia
> > > > >
> > > > > heinz
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Essjay
> > > > -----
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > > http://www.wikipedia.org/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


body:
Anthere wrote:

>At least in Europe, meetings are frequent, and I am sure will be more
>and more frequent as time.
>Most of these meetings are restricted to one language only. German
>editors had several meetings (in german). Dutch editors had several
>meetings (in dutch/english). French editors had several meetings as well
>(in french)...
>Of course, chinese editors *should* have meetings as well.
>
>Also, you must absolutely believe we understand the language problem.
>Many of those posting on this list are not primarily english speaking.
>In the recent posters, Delphine, Yann, Jean-Christophe, Jean-Baptiste,
>myself are French. Erik, Mathias are Germans. Gerard and Walter are
>Dutch. Aphaia is Japanese. Shizao is Chinese. Some of us are good in
>english. Others are not very good. And we all belong to communities
>where many people do not speak english at all.
>
>French people generally are *bad* in english.
>
English people are even worse in French

>I hope you (and other chinese who speak english) will post here more
>often. We need you and your input. Last year in Frankfurt, Theodorian
>and others came and told us about the chinese community. You may do the
>same. And I'll tell you about the french ;-)
>
World and national (or regional) meetings serve completely different
purposes. It's perfectly understandable that very few people from China
appeared at the Frankfurt Wikimania. By having these national meetings
soon after Wikimania it gives those who attended Wikimania an
opportunity to share their experiences with their colleagues that
couldn't make the trip to the other side of the world.

On another topic, I have been trying to encourage a founding meeting of
a Canadian chapter without much success. The big problem for a Canadian
chapter is geography and having a population that is spread across a
5,000 km ribbon. I have been thinking of a one day meeting in Montreal
right after the Boston meeting. This would make it possible for those of
us in the west to stop there on the way back from Boston, or even to car
pool between Montreal and Boston. If this can be arranged would it be
possible for you to come to Montreal for one day to attend?

Ec (Ray)


from_name: Sean Barrett

subject: [WikiEN-l] Help me!

body:
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Hash: SHA1

geni stated for the record:

> Non issue. We leave Afd to have their fun that kill it like to copyvio
> it is. Takeing on the inclusionists head on will probably result in a
> dummies watch or something.
>
> --
> geni

A simple list cannot be copyrighted, so cannot be a copyright violation.
[[Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service]].  Your contempt of
correctly-followed process and desire to circumvent consensus has
transformed what may once have been merely an assumption into a
conclusion supported by hard evidence.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of
 sean at epoptic.org | this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED,
                  | especially to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=yqus
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from_name: THD

body:
Hi, Ladies and all,

I am Theodoranian from zh.wikipedia. I went to Frankfurt last year, and
now I am thinking to go to Boston to join the 2006 wikimania.

I want to explain the "2006 Chinese wikimania" to you.
Actually, this annual conference is first-time-held this year, since
Zh.wikipedians from
China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and else places thought that there should be a
meetup.

The formal name of this meetup is "??????" in Chinese (which literally means
"Chinese Wikimedia Annual Conference"), and we don't have an appropriate
English
name for it yet. Now, we are still thinking what would be good. However,
somebody
translated the "CWAC" into English as "Chinese wikimania". There seems to be
a cultural
gap which misleads the translator to regard "Wiki-meetup" as "wikimania".

Just for your information.

Theodoanian

2006/3/16, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com>:
>
> I hope we'll also see some chinese in Boston as well :-)
> I could not see the information in the news. Do you have any idea how
> many people you could gather ?
>
> ant
>
> R.O.C wrote:
> > what if using "wikimedia", for example. "chinese wikimedia conference"?
> >
> > just to clarify that "chinese" here means ethnic chinese around the
> world,
> > not limited to the people's republic of china or mainland china, as what
> > "china" nowadays often refers to. a number of users of zh.wikipedia(along
> > with other wikimedia projects in chinese language) from mainland china,
> > taiwan, hong kong, malaysia, canada, united states, germany, etc. have
> > expressed interests to attend.
> >
> > the chinese community decided to hold the conference in hong kong, which
> > enjoys convenient transportation and high degree of autonomy from the
> > central government in beijing. among other candidate cities were
> beijing,
> > shanghai, and taipei. blocking of wikipedia in PRC poses
> > concerns/difficulties for promoting wikimedia and organizing a
> conference
> > within mainland china. taipei has a highly devoted local community but
> there
> > is a difficulty also from politics that entry permits generally are not
> > issued to mainland chinese.
> >
> > -roc (User:R.O.C)
> >
> > 2006/3/16, Angela <beesley at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> I'm pleased to see a conference in China is being planned, but this
> >>and similar events really need to use a different name, both to
> >>prevent confusion with the actual Wikimania, and to avoid the need for
> >>each event to get permission from Wikimedia to use the name.
> >>
> >>Angela.
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>foundation-l mailing list
> >>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


body:
On 3/16/06, The Cunctator <cunctator at gmail.com> wrote:
> A really dumb thing that would get some of the way there would just
> add an element in the history with the comment "Split from [[Original
> article]] revision [[permanent link]]". Then people could navigate
> back to that and the chain would be unbroken. Much simpler than the
> database having to be smart.

Dunno about you, but I do that anyway. In fact I did this this week,
splitting [[German grammar]] into [[German nouns]] etc. For the first
edit summary of the new article, I add "split from [[German
grammar]]". A link to the version of the parent article before the
split would be nice, but can be determined by hand simply by comparing
dates.

Steve


from_name: Angela

body:
I'm pleased to see a conference in China is being planned, but this
and similar events really need to use a different name, both to
prevent confusion with the actual Wikimania, and to avoid the need for
each event to get permission from Wikimedia to use the name.

Angela.


from_name: The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodríguez

body:
Thanks, Rob. It seems that I've missed something...

>From Carl's message "Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access". So, must I read that SourceForge SVN service is much better than its CVS service but MediaWiki is not using it?

Thanks!

>>> Rob Church<robchur at gmail.com> 16/3/2006 16:18 >>>

We *aren't* using the SVN service at this time.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> Hi, Carl,
>
> I've heard that SVN is not working at the moment. In fact it is not working for me. Have you been lucky? Please, what SVN are you using? Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ricardo
>
> >>> Carl F?rstenberg<azatoth at gmail.com> 15/3/2006 21:28 >>>
>
> Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.
>
> On 3/15/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Public Health Alert: SourceForge anon CVS is known to be shit. And the
> > regular access isn't much better, either. I expect it's borked right
> > now, give it a few.
> >
> >
> > Rob Church
> >
> > On 15/03/06, - Essjay - <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Having the same problem, and I hear that many others have as well. Is this a
> > > problem with SourceForge?
> > >
> > > Essjay
> > >
> > > On 3/15/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i get no access
> > > >
> > > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia
> > > >
> > > > heinz
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Essjay
> > > -----
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > http://www.wikipedia.org/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


body:
Thank you so much. Crystal clear.

Best,

--
Ricardo Rodr?guez
The XEN ICT Team

>>> Rob Church<robchur at gmail.com> 16/3/2006 17:37 >>>

Read this not as an official statement, but rather, what I know of it...

We were going to move to SVN, and were on the beta programme. Our
repository was imported, but Brion halted the use of SVN, citing the
lack of decent email notification and the lack of support for the CIA
notification bots, both of which we use - the latter with diffs - to
keep track of things. So we continued to use CVS.

I hear those issues are now cleaned up, but the SVN repository is now
very out of date. I don't know what the future plans are to move to
it; all I know is that we're using CVS right now.

Rob Church

On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> Thanks, Rob. It seems that I've missed something...
>
> >From Carl's message "Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access". So, must I read that SourceForge SVN service is much better than its CVS service but MediaWiki is not using it?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> >>> Rob Church<robchur at gmail.com> 16/3/2006 16:18 >>>
>
> We *aren't* using the SVN service at this time.
>
>
> Rob Church
>
> On 16/03/06, The XEN ICT Team - Ricardo Rodr?guez <webmaster at xen.net> wrote:
> > Hi, Carl,
> >
> > I've heard that SVN is not working at the moment. In fact it is not working for me. Have you been lucky? Please, what SVN are you using? Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ricardo
> >
> > >>> Carl F?rstenberg<azatoth at gmail.com> 15/3/2006 21:28 >>>
> >
> > Their svn-service at the moment is much better than their cvs-access.
> >
> > On 3/15/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Public Health Alert: SourceForge anon CVS is known to be shit. And the
> > > regular access isn't much better, either. I expect it's borked right
> > > now, give it a few.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob Church
> > >
> > > On 15/03/06, - Essjay - <essjaywiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Having the same problem, and I hear that many others have as well. Is this a
> > > > problem with SourceForge?
> > > >
> > > > Essjay
> > > >
> > > > On 3/15/06, Heinz <h-j.luecking at t-online.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > i get no access
> > > > >
> > > > > http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia
> > > > >
> > > > > heinz
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Essjay
> > > > -----
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Essjay
> > > > Wikipedia:The Free Encyclopedia
> > > > http://www.wikipedia.org/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
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