subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/22/06, Tony Jacobs <gtjacobs at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >From: Puppy <puppy at KillerChihuahua.com>
> >I don't want to sound
> >misogynistic here - certainly some men were more biased, some less, some
> >not at all, and some were feminists. But they still didn't clean the
> >kitchen.
> >
>
>
> If a man doesn't clean the kitchen, he's not a feminist.
>

You failed to say when though. Men generally will clean kitchens but
only when they view them as unacceptably dirty. This is I suspect the
problem.

--
geni


list: wikien-l

source: pipermail-mbox

from_name: Thomas Dalton

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
> You failed to say when though. Men generally will clean kitchens but
> only when they view them as unacceptably dirty. This is I suspect the
> problem.

Surely that's just a disagreement over the definition of "unacceptably dirty".


from_name: SPUI

subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
Bogdan Giusca wrote:
> What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?
> I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
> to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
> fair-use claim hold up?
>
> Note that some of the images claim "PD".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Irvine_Sat_View.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RanchoSatView.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Migrationdinka.png
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hhi-troads.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:St_cath_wifi.png
> etc

Delete and replace with a {{geolinks}} or {{coor d}} template.


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
"David Gerard" wrote

> Also, you know how any technical field laments the strange lack of
> women?

Not really the point, though. Wiki is not highly technical. The social-interaction part of WP is much more demanding than remembering the mark-up.

I find it 'unfortunate', however that the recent writing contest seemed to give gold, silver and bronze to armchair warriors(see WP:SIGN). That really is a Boy's Toys area. I have to say that I gave up on Danny's contests after seeing that soda-can stoves were more valued than major African poets.

Charles

-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software
Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information


from_name: James Hare

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Hopefully they got banned.

On 11/22/06, Sarah <slimvirgin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/22/06, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com> wrote:
> > Article quality and content reflect the bias of their authors; whether
> > internal  or external (access to sources, exposure to topics) that is
> > the issue.
>
> About the only time I was conscious of gender issues while editing was
> when I briefly tried to edit one of the abortion-related articles. The
> page was in the control of a few male editors, and they were very
> aggressive, and absolutely certain they knew best. It's one of the few
> occasions I've been genuinely angry when editing (as opposed to
> irritated, which is a constant), because I got no sense at all that
> they realized that maybe, just maybe, the issues were more nuanced
> than they were able to understand. I had to withdraw from editing it
> after a couple of days.
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Tony Jacobs

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
>From: Puppy <puppy at KillerChihuahua.com>
>Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender
>Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:18:48 -0500
>
>David Gerard wrote:
> > Also, you know how any technical field laments the strange lack of
> > women? Technical fields have had that strange lack of women for a
> > hundred years and still there's no solution to what the heck is
> > culling them so early.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>If you are interested:
>http://www.springerlink.com/content/v006kt042w30045r/
>
>http://www.american.edu/sadker/thereportcard.htm
>
>http://jte.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/53/2/168
>
>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCG/is_2_30/ai_105478982
>
>http://www.maec.org/beyond.html
>And from this last link:
>
>*GENDER BIAS IN STUDENT/TEACHER INTERACTIONS*
>
>Although most teachers believe that they treat girls and boys the same,
>research indicates that they frequently do not. Studies show that
>teachers often exhibit differential behavior even though circumstances
>do not warrant it. The teacher' sex seems to have little bearing on the
>outcome; it is the sex of the student that seems to make a difference.
>For example:
>
>     * Male students receive more of the teacher's attention (acceptance,
>       praise, criticism, and remediation) and are given more time to
>       talk in class from pre-school through college.^8
>     * Although differences among subject matter areas have not been well
>       examined, recent research has found student-teacher interaction in
>       science classes to be biased toward boys.^9
>     * Sex is a factor in the assignment of students to ability groups in
>       mathematics, and males are more likely to be assigned to the high
>       ability group.^10
>     * Males receive harsher punishment than girls even for the same or a
>       similar offense.^11
>     * Teachers ask boys more higher order questions than they ask
>girls.^12
>
>Some researchers suggest that differences in treatment contribute to
>girls' lower self-esteem, lower self-confidence, and reduced risk taking.
>

I gotta say, I just spent 3 years teaching mathematics at a state university
where the math department was over 50% female (students, not professors).
More of my better students were female, in Calculus, Differential Equations,
Group Theory, etc.  These were some high self-esteem, confident, risk-taking
chicks (to use the PC expression).  I realize this school is an exception,
but it appears that, at least in some communities, these trends are on the
decline.

GTBacchus

_________________________________________________________________
View Athlete?s Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01


list: wikitech-l

from_name: Simetrical

subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17800] trunk/phase3

body:
On 11/22/06, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> Tim Starling wrote:
> > I usually send my comments directly to the developer. It saves
> > embarrassment, although of course it reduces the benefit to other developers.
>
> Indeed, my purpose is pedagogical. It's I hope good for both the other
> noobs and old fogies too. Don't feel singled out, Simetrical! :)

Don't worry, I think it's good that you send things to the list.  I
learned a couple of things from Rob doing that, like "always update
the release notes".


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/22/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "David Gerard" wrote
>
> > Also, you know how any technical field laments the strange lack of
> > women?
>
> Not really the point, though. Wiki is not highly technical. The social-interaction part of WP is much more demanding than remembering the mark-up.
>

O rly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:High_School_Infobox

--
geni


from_name: Travis Derouin

subject: [Wikitech-l] anonymous edits don't show up right away

body:
Hi,

We're having an issue with anonymous editors not seeing their edits
right away when the page is saved. Usually after refreshing a few
times they appear, but not after. We're using Squid with a few backend
apaches, is there a configuration setting to fix this, and if so, does
it adversely affect performance?

Thanks,
Travis


list: foundation-l

from_name: Stephen Bain

subject: [Foundation-l] promotion of free licenses

body:
On 11/22/06, David Monniaux <David.Monniaux at free.fr> wrote:
> We have a problem getting people to accept free licenses. One of the
> issues is that, at least in some countries, conditions stating that the
> authors allows any usage of his image for any duration are ruled illegal
> by courts (should the author complain), as abusive clauses. The idea is
> to protect authors from abuse by greedy publishers. I've even heard some
> lawyer from a photographers' society explaining to me that free licenses
> (including Creative Commons etc.) where thus illegal.

Does anyone know of cases where this has actually happened? Also, does
this relate to any particular legislation? I've only ever heard of
this sort of thing in consumer protection or trade practices
legislation.

If there are such situations, I would imagine that they would be
concerning terms in contracts between the author of some kind of
material (such as a book) and their publisher. I don't see how they
could be a problem where a copyright holder themselves publishes the
material under a licence.

Remember also that we consider anyone who submits content to the
projects to be publishing it themselves, and we're just distributing
the material. If someone decides to publish material under a copyleft
licence, that's entirely their decision. The law isn't going to step
in and protect them from themselves.

> Lately, in a private email, Greg Maxwell made a remark that I had made
> in other circumstances, that is
>
> For example, surely the 'share alike' nature of copyleft contracts
> prevents the contracts from being considered unconscionable. Such
> licenses would be acceptable for our purposes.
>
> Indeed, that's one point that we may argue: with "sharealike" licenses,
> the authors do not cede all rights with no compensation or insurance;
> they rather have strong guarantees that uses of their work will not
> stray from their intent of distribution of free content.

Indeed. Unless a certain term is expressly invalidated by legislation,
I can't think that there would be any unconscionability (or whatever
element is required in whatever test is used) in the situation of
copyleft licencing to warrant the invalidation of a term.

Although again I would like to see some actual examples of where this
has happened, if there are any.

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


list: wikimedia-l


from_name: Keith Old

subject:
[WikiEN-l] Libel ruling in California court and its impact on
	Wikipedia

body:
G'day Folks,

The BBC reports that the California Supreme Court that bloggers and ISPs
cannot be sued for posting defamatory statements by third parties.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6167930.stm

*Bloggers and US internet providers cannot be liable for posting defamatory
comments written by third parties, the California Supreme Court has ruled. *

It followed the case of San Diego woman sued after posting allegedly
libellous comments online about two doctors.

Some of the internet's biggest names including Google, eBay and Amazon have
supported a woman in a US legal battle that may save them from libel cases.

The judges said the ruling would protect freedom of expression.

More in story.

I wonder what implications this has for Wikipedia. Of course, we should have
strong guidelines regarding living people in any case.

Regards

*Keith Old*


from_name: Anthony

subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....

body:
On 11/21/06, Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> If you had to cite organisations which share a lot with our, which
> organisations would you cite ?
>
> Key words here being
> * rather young and still little organised
> * very largely based on volunteer work
> * with little money (not the pouring barrels some non profits get...)
>

Citizendium


subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....


from_name: Larry Pieniazek

subject: [WikiEN-l] Danny's contest

body:
(in reply to:)

> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:17:11 +0000
> From: <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Message-ID:
<20061122161717.BHDZ1848.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com at smtp.ntlworld.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> "David Gerard" wrote
>
>> Also, you know how any technical field laments the strange lack of
>> women?
>
> Not really the point, though. Wiki is not highly technical. The
social-interaction part of WP is much more
> demanding than remembering the mark-up.
>
> I find it 'unfortunate', however that the recent writing contest seemed to
give gold, silver and bronze to
> armchair warriors(see WP:SIGN). That really is a Boy's Toys area. I have
to say that I gave up on Danny's
> contests after seeing that soda-can stoves were more valued than major
African poets.
>
> Charles

Well I'm not sure how to respond to that exactly, other than to say that we
judged the entries that turned up based on the criteria we developed (which
were in turn based on the goals, to demonstrate referencability...) Those
entries were the best at it.

Not that it's relevant (so why did I mention it? Dunno) but of the three
judges that actively judged entries, I was the only boy.

Larry Pieniazek (User Lar)
Hobby mail:  lar at miltontrainworks.com


subject: [Wikitech-l] generating Messages.php from message cache

body:
Hi,

It seems like it's possible to edit the software messages by going to
Special:Allmessages, clicking on a message, editing it and saving it.

Is there any easy way to generate a MessagesXX.php file from what's
the state of the message cache, so the messages can be moved between
versions, or times when the messages are rebuilt?

Travis


from_name: Liz Kim

subject: [Wikitech-l] php in mediawiki?

body:
Is there a way to do _POST or _GET within wiki in php?
trying to create a form and pass the input variable into a php function...

THANKS!

On 10/27/06, Tim Starling <tstarling at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Liz Kim wrote:
> > is there some variable to be able to input raw php into the edit box??
> >
> > for example,
> > I have the raw html variable enabled...
> > and  seem to work fine
> >
> > I have tried..
> > <?php echo "hello"; ?>
> > but does not seem to do the trick...
>
> Why does everyone seem to think that's a good idea? There's an extension
> for
> this, believe it or not, and a lot of users too. They always say "it's
> alright, I'm just using it as a personal organiser on localhost, nobody
> else
> can access it", but personally, I've found MediaWiki to be slow and
> unreliable in that role, compared to the alternatives.
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Runphp
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
On 11/22/06, Bogdan Giusca <liste at dapyx.com> wrote:
> What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?

Delete

> I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
> to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
> fair-use claim hold up?

not normaly.
--
geni


body:
On 11/22/06, Keith Old <keithold at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder what implications this has for Wikipedia. Of course, we should have
> strong guidelines regarding living people in any case.

Brad posted to Foundation-l about this and seemed pleased:

http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2006-November/011679.html

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com


from_name: Greg Sabino Mullane

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17852]
	trunk/phase3/maintenance

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> Revision: 17852
> Author:   midom
> Date:     2006-11-22 06:06:00 -0800 (Wed, 22 Nov 2006)
...
> remove 'subkey' (255) for a field which is 40-chars long, fixes stuff...

You sure about that? ipb_address can hold both IPs and usernames: the
latter of which is defined as varchar(255).

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg at turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200611221247
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iD8DBQFFZI2PvJuQZxSWSsgRAt1zAKDy7F1/dv/vQK11s5d8XfPVl6lxnACgzx7x
pK1zPMafApgvemI28kcmt68=
=N7ND
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


from_name: reduxwikipedia

subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....

body:
This is just right off the top of my head, but what about The Degree
Confluence Project (home page: http://www.confluence.org/)?

They aren't a wiki, but their entries are text and images submitted
willingly and freely by volunteers.  If I remember correctly, those willing
to upload anything need to fill an online form releasing all the material -
their howto page explains how to submit material
(http://www.confluence.org/howto/visitsubmit.php).  Furthermore, they've
been around for a few years with relative success, so it's not a "new
thing".

I'm not sure if that is what would interest you, Ant, but I thought it would
be worth at least bringing it up.

All the best,

Redux

in (02:17:22), Anthere wrote:

>If you had to cite organisations which share a lot with our, which
>organisations would you cite ?
>
>Key words here being
>
>We'd like to contact some "similar-like" organisations to share best
>practices.
>
>Do you have names to suggest (not necessarily limited to open source or
>free software)
>
>Ant
>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>----------


subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....


from_name: Rob Church

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17860]
	trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php

body:
On 22/11/06, brion at svn.wikimedia.org <brion at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> + * END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY!
> + *
> + * REPEAT!
> + *
> + * DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY!
> + * NOTHING WILL HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO THAT!
> + *
> + * You can make your customizations on the wiki.
> + * While logged in as a sysop user, go to [[Special:Allmessages]]
> + * and edit the MediaWiki:* pages listed there.
> + *
> + * DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY OR YOU WILL JUST BE CONFUSED!

I would be willing to put cold hard cash on it that someone is going
to ignore this regardless, and I say, "ready your cluesticks" :)

Rob Church


subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/22/06, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com> wrote:
> They could have been theoretical feminists, eh?
>
> And I worked there for almost nine years. No man ever cleaned the
> kitchen, the entire time I was there. Every so often a woman would
> mention a rotating roster, so the same people would not always be
> cleaning the kitchen - but the men always shouted it down. Once we went
> on strike - didn't clean. When the kitchen got too nasty, the men
> started going out to lunch.

They spoiled the experiment.

>One said, the refrigerator in the breakroom
> is starting to smell. I said, why don't you clean it then? He said, I'm
> not the maid. I said, we don't have a maid, who do you think has been
> cleaning the kitchen? And he said, That's right, why don't you clean the
> kitchen? No lie. He was one of the worst offenders though. He belonged
> to some church which believed women should subjugate themselves to men,
> and he had a hard time taking orders from women - not me, he didn't
> report to me, but he did report to a woman. The situation worsened, and
> everyone of the men was complaining. We kept asking, why don't you clean
> it then? And one of the other men said, if we wait long enough one of
> the women will clean it. He was an avowed feminist. Right. And four
> women finally cleaned the kitchen when bigwigs from corporate were
> coming. It seems the men were right - if they waited long enough, a
> woman would do it. I went to the corporate office several times, and
> guess who was cleaning the breakroom? A woman.
>

Haveing seen the kitchens in all male student acomerdation I can well
belive it. If cleaning is left to whoever cracks first it tends to be
the woman who end up doing it. Not sure how this applies to wikipedia
though.

> It is a complex situation, and I think a little off topic. I don't know
> if there is anything here which will illuminate the gender bias and/or
> gender gap which we have on Wikipedia, or give insight as to how to
> approach better balance. Does any of this cause women to value
> themselves less? Do they do "cleanup" because they're used to it?

I don't know the gender of most of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup_Taskforce/Members/Members_by_interest

> Do
> they shy away from ArbCom or B'crat because they are
> non-confrontational? due to gender differences, or societal expectations
> (Pavlovian training)? The email which started this thread talked about
> "women's subjects" such as blow dryers and curling irons, and that was
> written by a female, yes? That's horrifying to me.

The average woman is likely to know more about blow dryers than the
average man (sure there are men with long hair but they are something
of a minority even amoung geeks)

>
> I'm going off to see if Nail polish could use a "woman's touch" - heaven
> forfend I actually put any chemistry into the darn article. (yes this is
> sarcasm, I have no intention of editing Nail polish.)
>

Chemistry mostly covered unless people want to go into details of the dyes.

--
geni


from_name: Puppy

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Stan Shebs wrote:
> Puppy wrote:
>
>> Article quality and content reflect the bias of their authors; whether
>> internal  or external (access to sources, exposure to topics) that is
>> the issue. Your example is of geographical/political bias. There is also
>> religious bias (see my user page), and many other biases on Wikipedia.
>> This thread is about gender bias, note the subject: wrt gender: as in,
>> with regard to gender, ie; gender bias. It has expanded to note that
>> there may be gender bias or at least gender imbalance within the editor
>> pool on Wikipedia, and explored various possible reasons. Your email
>> does not seem to be addressing any of that. I am not sure what you are
>> saying with your email: are you saying that geopolitical bias is more
>> rampant and deserves more attention than gender bias? Are you saying
>> gender bias is hard to identify? Please clarify.
>>
>>
> I'm saying that I don't know of any significant systemic bias relating
> to gender. Systemic bias can happen even when everybody has good
> intentions and is on their best behavior, so it's orthogonal to editor
> gender, editor behavior, etc. The original post mentioned scanty
> coverage of blowdryers, perhaps not a great example for reasons already
> discussed; are there better examples where topics of particular interest
> to women are being overlooked?
>
> (I'm assuming you're familiar with [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering
> systemic bias]], which explains things better than I can. I note that
> it's primarily geographical - should it have a gender subproject?)
>
> Stan
>
>
>
>
I added the religious bias section to it, back in December 2005.

Gender bias is not my soapbox; this thread was not started by me, I have
merely provided some anecdotal and statistical information. I believe we
are currently in the examining and discussing phase rather than the
solutions segment. I see as a more fundamental issue that women are less
well represented in the editing pool, and wonder why that might be. If
the editing pool were less unbalanced, perhaps our article coverage
would be also. Then again, perhaps the women who are interested in
editing Wikipedia are less interested in "women's topics" than in other
subjects. I do note that [[Can opener]] is a stub, but look at [[P-38
can opener]], the military can opener. Not a great article but longer
than the parent article. Of course, any Pokemon character article would
blow both of these away.
-kc-


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
On 22/11/06, Bogdan Giusca <liste at dapyx.com> wrote:
> What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?
> I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
> to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
> fair-use claim hold up?
>
> Note that some of the images claim "PD".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Irvine_Sat_View.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RanchoSatView.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Migrationdinka.png
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hhi-troads.jpg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:St_cath_wifi.png

The fair-use claim almost certainly doesn't work. However, it may be
possible to replace them with equivalent free shots via NASA WorldWind
- I believe all their map data is public domain or otherwise free, and
so "photography" with it is fine.

Map snippets, like on "troads" can be reproduced with ten minutes in
an art program. This isn't rocket science.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17847] trunk/phase3

body:
On 11/22/06, werdna at svn.wikimedia.org <werdna at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Revision: 17847
> Author:   werdna
> Date:     2006-11-22 03:51:49 -0800 (Wed, 22 Nov 2006)
>
> Log Message:
> -----------
> * (bug 7883) Added autoblock whitelisting feature, using which specific ranges can be protected from autoblocking. These ranges are specified, in list format, in the autoblock_whitelist system message.
. . .
>         function doAutoblock( $autoblockip ) {
. . .
> +               $ip = wfGetIp();
. . .
> +                       # Is the IP in this range?
> +                       if (wfIsAddressInRange( $ip, $wlEntry )) {

Um, I'm pretty tired, but shouldn't you be checking against
$autoblockip, not wfGetIp()?  The IP of the current request is going
to be the blocker, at least on retroactive autoblocks.


body:
On 11/22/06, Rob Church <robchur at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 22/11/06, werdna at svn.wikimedia.org <werdna at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > * (bug 7883) Added autoblock whitelisting feature, using which specific ranges can be protected from autoblocking. These ranges are specified, in list format, in the autoblock_whitelist system message.
>
> Is this the best place for this to be specified?

Different wikis will have different preferences as to how dynamic you
have to be before being whitelisted, and it would be hard to keep the
list up to date between releases, so I'd say allowing admins to
specify it wiki-wide somehow is a good idea, and system messages are
at least as good as any such mechanism.


from_name: Bogdan Giusca

subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?
I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
fair-use claim hold up?

Note that some of the images claim "PD".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Irvine_Sat_View.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RanchoSatView.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Migrationdinka.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hhi-troads.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:St_cath_wifi.png
etc


from_name: ATR

subject: [Foundation-l] contents under education/information licenses

body:
I agree with all of Michael's analysis. I would like to underscore
out that "educational" does not necessarily mean "non-commercial".
There are many educational, religious or cultural institutions that
operate in the "commercial realm" and in fact, under the U.S.
trademark law,  the term of art "use in commerce" is not limited
to sale of goods, but can also be services. Here is an example
of my own alma mater and the protection it has on its name
 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=74005106
They also are protected from allowing anyone else from selling
educational services under their name:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=73626911

Jimbo was very wise to create a licensing scheme that allowed these
kinds of uses of Wikipedia content while preserving the moral rights
of creators, which is not protected under US law (even though it is a
signatory to the Berne Convention) except for certain types of
visual art works; as we know American IP law is obsessed with
protecting the "commerical" exploitation of a work, and not with
the more philosophical "moral rights" concepts of IP that lead creators
and IP rights pioneers like Victor Hugo to stress the importance of
these "non-economic" rights.

Alex T. Roshuk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Snow" <wikipedia at earthlink.net>

<..snip..>

| Framing the issue this way assumes that these categories are distinct.
| That assumption is misleading and, especially in the context of our
| philosophical commitments on licensing issues, not one we can operate
| with. Their concession to commercial use recognizes that education and
| information can be commercial products. But what about, for example,
| using this material to advertise an educational product? This is
| territory where it isn't feasible to bless some approaches and cordon
| off others, at least not without detailed agreements spelling out what
| is and isn't permissible. Such things quickly become too complicated for
| our own contributors, to say nothing of anyone downstream who wants to
| reuse it.

<..snip...>
|
|
| --Michael Snow
| _______________________________________________
| foundation-l mailing list
| foundation-l at wikimedia.org
| http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


from_name: Jay R. Ashworth

subject: [Wikitech-l] respond to bug tracker via email

body:
On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 07:52:01PM +1030, Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> None on mine either, but I don't complain about it. I find it amusing
> that you can afford a domain name for yourself but not an internet
> connection...

Domain name: $9.95 a year.

High-speed internet on a mountain: up to $20K engineering fees, if DSL
won't reach you.

People who don't jump to conclusions on mailing lists: priceless.

:-)

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

	"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
	  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_


body:
On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 06:00:30PM +0000, Rob Church wrote:
> On 22/11/06, brion at svn.wikimedia.org <brion at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > + * END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY!
> > + *
> > + * REPEAT!
> > + *
> > + * DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY!
> > + * NOTHING WILL HAPPEN WHEN YOU DO THAT!
> > + *
> > + * You can make your customizations on the wiki.
> > + * While logged in as a sysop user, go to [[Special:Allmessages]]
> > + * and edit the MediaWiki:* pages listed there.
> > + *
> > + * DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY OR YOU WILL JUST BE CONFUSED!
>
> I would be willing to put cold hard cash on it that someone is going
> to ignore this regardless, and I say, "ready your cluesticks" :)

"Number 6... the LART"

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

	"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
	  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_


body:
On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 03:01:32PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
> Travis Derouin wrote:
> > We're having an issue with anonymous editors not seeing their edits
> > right away when the page is saved. Usually after refreshing a few
> > times they appear, but not after. We're using Squid with a few backend
> > apaches, is there a configuration setting to fix this, and if so, does
> > it adversely affect performance?
>
> Offhand I'd suspect that PURGEs aren't reaching the squids or aren't
> taking proper effect...

Firefox seems to have some caching problems with MW and WebGUI on
occasion; what browser are your editors using (if you know)?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra at baylink.com
Designer                          Baylink                             RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates        The Things I Think                        '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA      http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 647 1274

	"That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later,
	  they stop having sex with you."  -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_


from_name: James Hare

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Personally, I am not a big fan of statistics or labelling. But tell me more
about this females soaring above the males in education.

On 11/22/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Puppy wrote:
> <snip>
> > *GENDER BIAS IN STUDENT/TEACHER INTERACTIONS*
> >
>
> Obviously you're not aware of the problems surrounding males in
> education then, and how they're falling seriously behind their female
> peers.
>
> --
> Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
> Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
> "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
> Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
>


from_name: Philip

body:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:43:25 -0600, Jay R. Ashworth <email hidden> wrote:

>
> Domain name: $9.95 a year.
>
> High-speed internet on a mountain: up to $20K engineering fees, if DSL
> won't reach you.
>
> People who don't jump to conclusions on mailing lists: priceless.
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
> -- jra

Domain name: $8.88 a year at namecheap.com

High-speed internet on a mountain: Become a WISP(Wireless Internet Service
Provider)

Provbide High-speed internet to a mountain: Put a 100ft tower at the top
and a 100ft tower at the bottom

People who make these things: Infinate


from_name: Joe Anderson

subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
Andrew's right, NASA images should be PD.

On 11/22/06, Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 22/11/06, Bogdan Giusca <liste at dapyx.com> wrote:
> > What should we do with the screenshots taken from Google Earth?
> > I see that more and more of them are uploaded on en.wiki, for example
> > to illustrate things such as high-schools or cities. But, does the
> > fair-use claim hold up?
> >
> > Note that some of the images claim "PD".
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Irvine_Sat_View.jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RanchoSatView.jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Migrationdinka.png
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hhi-troads.jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:St_cath_wifi.png
>
> The fair-use claim almost certainly doesn't work. However, it may be
> possible to replace them with equivalent free shots via NASA WorldWind
> - I believe all their map data is public domain or otherwise free, and
> so "photography" with it is fine.
>
> Map snippets, like on "troads" can be reproduced with ten minutes in
> an art program. This isn't rocket science.
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
Joe Anderson

[[User:Computerjoe]] on en, fr, de, simple, Meta and Commons.


list: wikipedia-l

from_name: Filip Maljkovic

subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request For Logos

body:
jam at croftj.net wrote:
> Hello. I would like to call the attention
> of any Wikipedia developer in this mailing
> list. I have requested to switch the Wikipedia
> logo of Chavacano Wikipedia cbk-zam.wikipedia.org
> at the request for logos:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_logos
>
> But it has not been switched since 2 or 3 weeks ago
> when I made the request. Is there any developer
> here who can switch? Also, I noticed there
> are several requests there that have not been
> responded by any developer. Sorry, if I have
> to request developers attention here.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Weekejames
> cbk-zam.wikipedia.org
>
The best way to get the developers' attention is to file a bug to
bugzilla (http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org).

Cheers,
Filip


from_name: geni

subject: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia used for stock manipulation?

body:
On 11/22/06, Peter Jacobi <peter_jacobi at gmx.net> wrote:
> Asking for advice whether
> (a) pseudoscience-watch and "Einstein-disproved"-watch made
> me overly paranoid, or
> (b) normal AfD procedure is OK, or
> (c) more drastic measures are to be taken
>
> See list of articles and AfDs posted here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chemistry#Strange_set_of_articles
>
> http://www.hy-drive.com/ and http://www.hypowerfuel.com/ are traded
> on TSX Venture Exchange and OTCBB.PK respectively. Very low volume of course.
>
> They have very professional looking websites but no news coverage and a product which I'd consider to be complete crap:
>
> Using a car's on board generator producing electricity to hydrolyse
> water to oxygen and hydrogen which then are fed back into the car's
> motor to be burned there...
>
> Having a nice article on Wikipedia, even for short time, may
> make a big difference for them.
>
> Comments?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
>
> --
> Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

In this case probably not because they have already had mainstream
media coverage. It is likely that it will happen in future though.

--
geni


subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/22/06, James Hare <messedrocker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hopefully they got banned.
>

Better our titanium hardened streetfighters that those of the various
outside groups with an interest.

--
geni


from_name: Peter Jacobi

body:
Asking for advice whether
(a) pseudoscience-watch and "Einstein-disproved"-watch made
me overly paranoid, or
(b) normal AfD procedure is OK, or
(c) more drastic measures are to be taken

See list of articles and AfDs posted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chemistry#Strange_set_of_articles

http://www.hy-drive.com/ and http://www.hypowerfuel.com/ are traded
on TSX Venture Exchange and OTCBB.PK respectively. Very low volume of course.

They have very professional looking websites but no news coverage and a product which I'd consider to be complete crap:

Using a car's on board generator producing electricity to hydrolyse
water to oxygen and hydrogen which then are fed back into the car's
motor to be burned there...

Having a nice article on Wikipedia, even for short time, may
make a big difference for them.

Comments?

Regards,
Peter

--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> Puppy wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> This is not to say that improving and expanding such articles is not
>> desirable - after all, we wish to be the premier source of general
>> information on everything - but it is not due to gender bias, and to
>> imply that it is to me is reinforcing the
>> "woman-as-empty-headed-shallow-person".
>>
>
> Actually, your argument here is serving /that/ purpose quite well.
>
>
? Either I'm misunderstanding you, or I've just been insulted.
-kc-


from_name: Lars Aronsson

body:
David Monniaux wrote:

> As a member of the board of Wikimedia France, I had a meeting with the
> head and the legal counsel of some society of authors, [...]
>
> Their legal counsel told me that their stance is that all legal
> conditions stating that the author cedes all rights for an unbounded
> duration are abusive and that they were ready to fight that in court if
> necessary.
> [...]
> An important point is that for the last 150 years, French
> copyright law has been (at least in theory, practice is
> different, see below) centered around the idea of an *author*
> making a *work of the mind* which is his *property*. The author
> then authorizes *each use* of the work.

There are many kinds of authors.  In Sweden, each kind of authors
(novelist, poets, composers, schoolbook writers, ...) has a
separate organization, and none can speak for authors/creators of
all kinds.  And then many people occasionally write without being
part of any organization.  Letters to the editor are published
without any remuneration.  Is that different in France?

If a (freelance) contributor of articles for an encyclopedia would
not sell "full rights" for unbounded duration, the encyclopedia
publisher would be in an absurd situation.  In most cases --
correct me if I'm wrong -- the following editions of the same
encyclopedia will reuse and modify the text without asking new
permission from the old author.  So is there any organization
where French contributors to traditional encyclopedias (typically
university professors) discuss the terms and conditions under
which they license their articles to the publisher?

> Another important issue is that this whole debate is not
> France-centered. "Copyright" as practiced in the US is largely an
> American conception

Even though this argument is often heard, the same kinds of works
(novels, songs, newspapers, encyclopedias) exist in all countries,
always written by people and published by publishers.  So the
situation doesn't seem to be very different in reality.  It seems
that Creative Commons has been fully adopted to the French legal
framework, http://creativecommons.org/worldwide/fr/

--
  Lars Aronsson (lars at aronsson.se)
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se


subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
> Puppy wrote:
>
>> Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
>>
>>> Puppy wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is not to say that improving and expanding such articles is not
>>>> desirable - after all, we wish to be the premier source of general
>>>> information on everything - but it is not due to gender bias, and to
>>>> imply that it is to me is reinforcing the
>>>> "woman-as-empty-headed-shallow-person".
>>>>
>>> Actually, your argument here is serving /that/ purpose quite well.
>>>
>>>
>> ? Either I'm misunderstanding you, or I've just been insulted.
>>
>>
>
> You're not helping your cause...
>
>
Then I've been insulted. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I hoped I
was merely misunderstanding your intent. It is entirely possible you
have misunderstood me; if you confine yourself to making sarcastic
remarks and insulting me, I cannot judge and cannot clarify for you.
What purpose do you intend your insults to serve, or do you merely enjoy
insulting others without any sort of constructive criticism or
meaningful dialogue?
-kc-


from_name: Ken Arromdee

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006, Tony Jacobs wrote:
> >Some researchers suggest that differences in treatment contribute to
> >girls' lower self-esteem, lower self-confidence, and reduced risk taking.
> I gotta say, I just spent 3 years teaching mathematics at a state university
> where the math department was over 50% female (students, not professors).
> More of my better students were female, in Calculus, Differential Equations,
> Group Theory, etc.  These were some high self-esteem, confident, risk-taking
> chicks (to use the PC expression).  I realize this school is an exception,
> but it appears that, at least in some communities, these trends are on the
> decline.

It's so bad for boys that Newsweek actually published a story about it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/

"Girl behavior becomes the gold standard," says "Raising Cain" coauthor Thompson. "Boys are treated like defective girls."

A quick Google gives me some links:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/specialreport/20060122-120546-2696r.htm

They point out that boys:
     Receive the majority of D and F grades given to students in most schools, as high as 70 percent.
     Create 80 percent of classroom discipline problems.
     Account for 80 percent of high school dropouts.
     Represent 70 percent of children diagnosed with learning disabilities and 80 percent of those diagnosed with behavioral disorders.

http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html

A very famous article (if you've been following the issue) that also debunks
the self-esteem canard.


subject:
[Wikipedia-l] [Foundation-l] contents under
	education/information licenses

body:
Some guy added a bunch of copyvios to French Wikiquote. WMF got a
cease-and-desist. It was so bad they had to tear the whole thing down.

On 11/22/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> David Monniaux wrote:
> > David Gerard wrote:
> >
> >> You're still not convincing us that Wikimedia needs to change its
> >> policies here, rather than waiting for them to realise that it's not
> >> us nastily keeping them out. There's a world outside France.
> >>
> > I understand that this is a US-centric project, yes, and I'll advertise
> > it as such.
> >
>
> What's this I hear about fr: Wikiquote being closed down?
>
> --
> Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
> Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
> "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
> Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l at Wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
>
>


from_name: Anthere

subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....

body:
interesting project !
There are three points in my region already...

In this case, it can not help. They state they are non profit, but also
not incorporated... :-( And this is where I am looking for a model.

But fun project :-)

ant

reduxwikipedia wrote:
> This is just right off the top of my head, but what about The Degree
> Confluence Project (home page: http://www.confluence.org/)?
>
> They aren't a wiki, but their entries are text and images submitted
> willingly and freely by volunteers.  If I remember correctly, those willing
> to upload anything need to fill an online form releasing all the material -
> their howto page explains how to submit material
> (http://www.confluence.org/howto/visitsubmit.php).  Furthermore, they've
> been around for a few years with relative success, so it's not a "new
> thing".
>
> I'm not sure if that is what would interest you, Ant, but I thought it would
> be worth at least bringing it up.
>
> All the best,
>
> Redux
>
>
> in (02:17:22), Anthere wrote:
>
>
>
>>If you had to cite organisations which share a lot with our, which
>>organisations would you cite ?
>>
>>Key words here being
>>
>>We'd like to contact some "similar-like" organisations to share best
>>practices.
>>
>>Do you have names to suggest (not necessarily limited to open source or
>>free software)
>>
>>Ant
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>foundation-l mailing list
>>foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>----------
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


subject: [Foundation-l] out of your mind....


from_name: Kat Walsh

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/22/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> Puppy wrote:
> > Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:

> > Then I've been insulted. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I hoped I
> > was merely misunderstanding your intent. It is entirely possible you
> > have misunderstood me; if you confine yourself to making sarcastic
> > remarks and insulting me, I cannot judge and cannot clarify for you.
> > What purpose do you intend your insults to serve, or do you merely enjoy
> > insulting others without any sort of constructive criticism or
> > meaningful dialogue?
> >
>
> Women arguing on this list reinforces the view of
> "woman-as-empty-headed-shallow-person".

I really hope I'm misunderstanding your comments, Alphax.

I note, as a data point, that I've never felt myself to be on the
receiving end of slights on-wiki for being female (dealings with a
certain banned user or two excepted) -- but kc has a point, and a
well-expressed one at that.

And if you don't think so, you're welcome to say so in a more
constructive and intelligent fashion than you did here.

-Kat

--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mindspillage  |  G/AIM:LucidWaking
mindspillage or mind|wandering on irc.freenode.net | email for phone
The good traveller has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving
-- Lao-Tzu        Wikia: creating communities - http://www.wikia.com


list: commons-l

from_name: Cool Cat

subject: [Commons-l] Category:User scripts

body:
We have Interiots edit counter. Its futile to code any kind of java edit
counter. We need java script solution to various problems on commons such as
license tags. See [[User:Cool Cat/Sandbox]] for a sample. A few popus will
be nice to help people doing the cleanup work. I would really like to be
able to delete images by clicking a link at the [[COM:DEL]] sub page citing
that [[COM:DEL]] sub page for the reason. Or another tool that will add
{{delh}} ---- {{delf}} properly for me.
    - Cool Cat

On 11/19/06, Larry Pieniazek <lar at miltontrainworks.com> wrote:
>
>
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:44:45 +1100
> From: "Brianna Laugher" <brianna.laugher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Commons-l] Javascript magic
> To: "Wikimedia Commons Discussion List" <commons-l at wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <d20d84ea0611190344l45fd8c7bme632240dfc55417f at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> But anyway, nice. I put it here:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Nocategoryimages.js
>
> I also created a category:User scripts. If anyone else has some nifty
> Javscript for Commons feel free to add it to this category.
>
> I must say I really like the method of creating extra MediaWiki pages and
> then getting users to 'include' them in their own Javascript files. It is
> possibly not the best-scaling solution ever, but it is so much neater than
> copying a trillion different versions of code around.
>
> Brianna
>
> - - -
> Question on the above
>
> Should we maybe move the popups and edit counter stuff to there???
>
> Larry Pieniazek
> Hobby mail:  lar at miltontrainworks.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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from_name: brion at pobox.com

subject: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki automated test run failure 2006-11-23

body:
An automated run of parserTests.php showed the following failures:

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/maintenance/parserTests.txt"...
Running test TODO: Table security: embedded pipes (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2006-April/034637.html)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Link containing double-single-quotes '' (bug 4598)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Template with thumb image (with link in description)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <noinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: message transform: <onlyinclude> in transcluded template (bug 4926)... FAILED!
Running test BUG 1887, part 2: A <math> with a thumbnail- math enabled... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML bullet list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML ordered list, unclosed tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested bullet list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: HTML nested ordered list, open tags (bug 5497)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parsing optional HTML elements (Bug 6171)... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Inline HTML vs wiki block nesting... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Mixing markup for italics and bold... FAILED!
Running test TODO: 5 quotes, code coverage +1 line... FAILED!
Running test TODO: dt/dd/dl test... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Images with the "|" character in the comment... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, without trailing slash or name.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Parents of subpages, two levels up, with lots of extra trailing slashes.... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Don't fall for the self-closing div... FAILED!
Running test TODO: Always escape literal '>' in output, not just after '<'... FAILED!

Reading tests from "/home/brion/src/wiki/phase3/extensions/Cite/citeParserTests.txt"...

Passed 449 of 469 tests (95.74%)... FAILED!


subject: [Commons-l] Getting rid of 'best before'

body:
I'd appreciate some sort of a mechanism (maybe java backup) that will allow
me to better check the images.

It takes too much time to process every individual entry with the detail I'd
like to put it. And after the 1000th delete it starts to get annoying to
manually check history of the image, contributions of the tagger/uploader
and etc.

We need a bot to at the very least warn the uploaders if they weren't
warned. I wouldn't however want a bot that starts deleting things. No matter
how hard a bot is written, it is possible to trick a bot into doing
destructive stuff.

Having said that we absolutely need a delinking bot. If the delinker gets
blocked in local wikis they cease to become our problem. If wikis are going
to use our content they definitely need to be cooperative. If we have a
commons delinker working, the ticker probably wouldn't have to report
deleted images though it would report the tagging.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One nice thing to do is perhaps to break the deletion processes such as {{no
license}}, {{no source}}. {{pd-art}}, {{pd-old}} images tagged with {{no
source}} should be a separate process.

I really want better deletion tools as I am required to do a thousand
deletions per day to keep up with backlog (as it is now). It is
theoretically impossible for us to deal with the commons backlog at the rate
of increasing backlog versus the rate of successfully admin candidates.
Commons backlog is actualy already out of control.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As it stands it is clear that commons is a failing system. We should really
have more tools here on commons at our disposal. It should take me two
clicks to review and delete an image.

Needless to say the nonsense leaking to us from es.wiki is creating
additional problems.

On 11/15/06, samuli at samulilintula.net <samuli at samulilintula.net> wrote:
>
> > 2006/11/15, Magnus Manske:
> >> Theoretically, one could write a bot which could do the deletions, so
> >> no admins get scolded. The idea of a deletion-bot with admin rights (a
> >> virtual equivalent of [2];-) might sound scary, but setting it for "no
> >> edits for a month since addition of the template", combined with the
> >> image resurrection capability, should calm this.
> >
> > If someone runs such bot, please don't delete more that, let's say,
> > 100 images a day, otherwise CommonsTicker gets stucked :)
>
> I'm not a bot, but I have deleted up to 1000 images per day :)
>
> But seriously, when I've been in a deleting mood, I have also spared
> tagged images. There are at least three kind of good images amongst tagged
> images:
> 1. Vandalism tagging (rare)
> 2. Ineligible (chemical formulas, PD-art)
> 3. Images where information has been provided after tagging for deletion.
> This is the most common group.
>
> These are also reasons why a bot wouldn't be an extremely good idea.
> Although considering that the time wasted on deleting could be spent
> better, I'm not totally against a "monster bot", either.
>
> --
> Yst?v?llisin terveisin,
> Samuli Lintula
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 22/11/06, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting in that one of the nastier bits of systemic bias to fix is
> when you're pissing off people and you don't realise it.
>
> (c.f. issues on foundation-l re: open content licences and possible
> social unworkability in France.)
>
> It was also interesting in that it was said as if she was quoting
> someone else rather than composing the sentence as it was being said.
> So yes, there might be a critique available.

I'd be very interested to see this. The only "self-describing"
feminist criticism of Wikipedia I've run across was about a year ago
at most, maybe a bit less - if memory serves, it was comparing [[Man]]
and [[Woman]] and not being entirely impressed, mainly on the grounds
that the latter had a tasteful section of "slang terms for women".

(Looking at it as a followup just now... huh. Those two articles could
probably do with a bit of deliberate convergence...)

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


body:
On 11/23/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
> For some inexplicable reason the media tend to stay away from perpetual
> motion machines, even though they go for all the other pseudoscience.

Not in this case. Couple of months back this was springing up all over
the place. I though running cars on water went out decades ago.

--
geni


body:
I'd appreciate some sort of a mechanism (maybe java backup) that will allow
me to better check the images.

It takes too much time to process every individual entry with the detail I'd
like to put it. And after the 1000th delete it starts to get annoying to
manually check history of the image, contributions of the tagger/uploader
and etc.

We need a bot to at the very least warn the uploaders if they weren't
warned. I wouldn't however want a bot that starts deleting things. No matter
how hard a bot is written, it is possible to trick a bot into doing
destructive stuff.

On 11/15/06, samuli at samulilintula.net <samuli at samulilintula.net> wrote:
>
> > 2006/11/15, Magnus Manske:
> >> Theoretically, one could write a bot which could do the deletions, so
> >> no admins get scolded. The idea of a deletion-bot with admin rights (a
> >> virtual equivalent of [2];-) might sound scary, but setting it for "no
> >> edits for a month since addition of the template", combined with the
> >> image resurrection capability, should calm this.
> >
> > If someone runs such bot, please don't delete more that, let's say,
> > 100 images a day, otherwise CommonsTicker gets stucked :)
>
> I'm not a bot, but I have deleted up to 1000 images per day :)
>
> But seriously, when I've been in a deleting mood, I have also spared
> tagged images. There are at least three kind of good images amongst tagged
> images:
> 1. Vandalism tagging (rare)
> 2. Ineligible (chemical formulas, PD-art)
> 3. Images where information has been provided after tagging for deletion.
> This is the most common group.
>
> These are also reasons why a bot wouldn't be an extremely good idea.
> Although considering that the time wasted on deleting could be spent
> better, I'm not totally against a "monster bot", either.
>
> --
> Yst?v?llisin terveisin,
> Samuli Lintula
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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subject: [Commons-l] Category:User scripts

body:
I am a Script-1, where am I supposed to put that? Monobook? That script
should also create a default summary for the delete window assuming I decide
to delete. It should remove delete template if I decide to keep.
(delete/keep combo box perhaps with excuse field as a text box)
   - Cool Cat

On 11/23/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cool Cat wrote:
> > We have Interiots edit counter. Its futile to code any kind of java edit
> > counter. We need java script solution to various problems on commons
> > such as
> > license tags. See [[User:Cool Cat/Sandbox]] for a sample. A few popus
> will
> > be nice to help people doing the cleanup work. I would really like to be
> > able to delete images by clicking a link at the [[COM:DEL]] sub page
> citing
> > that [[COM:DEL]] sub page for the reason. Or another tool that will add
> > {{delh}} ---- {{delf}} properly for me.
> >
>
> Ask and ye shall receive:
>
> function closedel(result)
> {
>     var txt = document.editform.wpTextbox1;
>     txt.value = "{{subst:delh}}\n" + txt.value
>     + "\n----\n" + result + " – ~~~~\n{{subst:delf}}\n";
>     txt = document.editform.wpSummary;
>     txt.value = "close discussion";
> }
>
> I'm somewhat thinking of throwing it into extra-tabs.js, except that it
> becomes somehat cross-purposed (image tools vs. other stuff)...
>
> As for a "nuke image from COM:DEL page", I'd like to finish quick-delete
> first.
>
> --
> Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
> Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
> "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
> Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>
>
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from_name: Manjunath H.T

subject: [Foundation-l] Size of Uploaded file.

body:
Hi,
  Can anyone suggest what variables in which file needs to be modified to upload files with larger size......

---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.


subject: [Foundation-l] Size of Uploaded file.


from_name: luke brandt

subject:
[Foundation-l] [Wikipedia-l] contents under
 education/information licenses - related question

body:
Rama Rama wrote:
> Gregory, I fear that there might be some sort of misunderstanding here.
>
> I think that we all share the same ideal of information sharing.
> However, practically, there are constraints with which we have to
> accomodate.
>
> In this case, we might wish that the CNES put their photographs in the
> Public Domain, but our wishes are irrelevant because this is
> impossible. (Furthermore, I feel that you are quite unfair to the
> CNES, because it is not their choice anyway).
>
> Since we are already using non-free images under "fair use"
> conditions, I fail to understand how the "if it's not Free it sucks"
> type of discourse is relevant.
>
> The question is that, *practically*, there are Wikipedia which for
> different reasons do not have Fair Use provision ; that there is a
> legitimate need for some photographs ; and that we have people quite
> willing to share their photographs as much as they possibly can.
>
> In this respect, it is legitimate to wonder whether Wikipedia which to
> not have Fair Use might allow themselves to use these images. Lyrical
> discourses relying on the Judgement of History contribute little to
> the discussion.
>
>   -- Rama

I think this ties in and relates closely with this discourse. Does the
Foundation have an official policy on the ongoing Fair use / Free
content discussion? To explain briefly, it seems to have been accepted
until now that US 'fair use' isn't inconsistent with the GFDL, but does
the Foundation have an up-to-date view on whether fair use should be
kept to a bare minimum, or whether it should be ultimately disallowed
on, for example, the EN Wikipedia and all Wikipedias? Or is there some
other official standpoint on fair use in Wikipedias? Luke


from_name: Puppy

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Ken Arromdee wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006, Tony Jacobs wrote:
>
>>> Some researchers suggest that differences in treatment contribute to
>>> girls' lower self-esteem, lower self-confidence, and reduced risk taking.
>>>
>> I gotta say, I just spent 3 years teaching mathematics at a state university
>> where the math department was over 50% female (students, not professors).
>> More of my better students were female, in Calculus, Differential Equations,
>> Group Theory, etc.  These were some high self-esteem, confident, risk-taking
>> chicks (to use the PC expression).  I realize this school is an exception,
>> but it appears that, at least in some communities, these trends are on the
>> decline.
>>
>
> It's so bad for boys that Newsweek actually published a story about it.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10965522/site/newsweek/
>
> "Girl behavior becomes the gold standard," says "Raising Cain" coauthor Thompson. "Boys are treated like defective girls."
>
> A quick Google gives me some links:
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/specialreport/20060122-120546-2696r.htm
>
> They point out that boys:
>      Receive the majority of D and F grades given to students in most schools, as high as 70 percent.
>      Create 80 percent of classroom discipline problems.
>      Account for 80 percent of high school dropouts.
>      Represent 70 percent of children diagnosed with learning disabilities and 80 percent of those diagnosed with behavioral disorders.
>
> http://www.uaf.edu/northern/schools/myth.html
>
> A very famous article (if you've been following the issue) that also debunks
> the self-esteem canard.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
Are trends changing? Or are we looking at two different issues? The
articles I linked focused specifically on how female students were
treated as compared to how male students were treated - the self-esteem
issue was only "suggested by some researchers" and would not affect the
amount of attention given, questions, etc. The ratio of female to male
in science and math was also examined, and the studies found fewer
females. Computer use in one study was 3:1.
 From what you are linking here, it appears that overall however males
are having difficulties. Is this a pendulum swing, or something else? If
males are having more trouble due to information being presented in a
fashion calculated to appeal to, and be more easily comprehended, by
females, this may be a factor. All of the studies I linked spoke of the
importance of presenting material in a fashion which was more directed
towards female learning patterns. This may be merely coincidence, and
given the limited data there is no way to know - but it is an
interesting possibility. If that is the case, then perhaps our
male:female ratio of editors is not without benefit - articles will be
more likely to be organized to appeal to the male pattern of learning
and thinking. It would be helpful to know the causes of the behavior
disorders. And once again, while interesting, I cannot see a way to
directly correlate this to anything we do on WP.
-kc-


from_name: Brion Vibber

subject:
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN:
	[17833]trunk/phase3/includes/Linker.php

body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simetrical wrote:
>> Setting the default for typed parameter to be null, allows type-X-or-null
[snip]
> Someone mentioned that as a comment in the PHP docs, but I suspect it
> may have been added after 5.0 proper, since Rotem reported problems
> with 5.0.4.  We haven't introduced any dependencies for after 5.0;
> otherwise I would have started type-hinting arrays too, which was
> added in 5.1.  So for now I'll be cautious when adding these.

Confirmed that this doesn't work in 5.0.4 (throws fatal error for null),
does work in 5.1.4.

There's still a lot of 5.0.x installations out there, though I'd love to
see them all die -- in addition to the security problems (probably left
unfixed since the currently maintained 5.x has continued on to 5.1.x,
and now 5.2.x) there's the array index corruption on 64-bit machines,
which is now fatal due to breakage of the namespace arrays.

For 1.9 and 1.8.3 I've introduced a check for the array index corruption
on install, with a recommendation to upgrade to 5.1 or later for
affected machines.

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFZcC3wRnhpk1wk44RAqz9AJ45QNFa6SEIY3vbjaRhCz2DVofxBACfa4ul
emDPxU2wXHUSvrsYXcuqwgA=
=GZQB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


from_name: Florian Straub

subject: [Commons-l] Category:User scripts

body:
Alphax <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cool Cat wrote:

> > I would really like to be
> > able to delete images by clicking a link at the [[COM:DEL]] sub page
> > citing
> > that [[COM:DEL]] sub page for the reason. Or another tool that will add
> > {{delh}} ---- {{delf}} properly for me.
> >
>
> As for a "nuke image from COM:DEL page", I'd like to finish quick-delete
> first.

On de.wp we've got a javascript that helps to delete NowCommons-pictures.
Maybe it might help you. It was written by Revvar and it's included in
[[w:de:Benutzer:Flominator/monobook.js]].

This script takes the filename from the template and adds it to the deletion
reason.

Maybe it helps ....

Best regards,

Flo


from_name: Edward Z. Yang

subject: [Wikitech-l] I18N / L10 / Language Wishlist

references:
<ejm49d$dga$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<ejnbj8$7er$1@sea.gmane.org>	<ejnfkb$igf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<ejoj8q$9e9$1@sea.gmane.org>

body:
I did quite a bit of thinking on what you posted here, and some of it
quite fabulous. I still have a few questions:

- If you had to rename every message in MediaWiki, would you have
enforced a definite naming convention? Namespaced them?

> Grammatical transformations for agglutinative languages came a bit earlier.
> I implemented them for Finnish, when I was told that it was absolutely
> necessary if we wished to make our language files site-independent, i.e. to
> remove the Wikipedia references. In Finnish, "about Wikipedia" becomes
> "Tietoja Wikipediasta" and "you can upload it to Wikipedia" becomes "Voit
> tallentaa tiedoston Wikipediaan". Suffixes are added depending on how the
> word is used, plus minor modifications to the base. There is a long list of
> exceptions, but since we only needed to translate a few words, such as the
> site name, we didn't need to include it.
>
> We now have grammatical transformation functions for 18 languages. Some of
> these are just dictionaries for Wikimedia site names, but many have proper
> algorithms.

If they're just dictionaries, I wonder whether or not you couldn't have
had wfMsg("sitename-$form"), just like the nominative/genitive
distinction for month names? The current setup makes it difficult to add
your own name to the dictionaries without editing PHP files (not that, I
imagine, anyone would care).

> There's also the MessageCache class, which handles input of text via the
> MediaWiki namespace.

The MediaWiki namespace is quite an innovation on your part, and
extremely convenient. However, that's out of the scope for my purposes.

Once again, thanks!


body:
Cool Cat wrote:

> It takes too much time to process every individual entry with the detail
> I'd like to put it.

Is there any way a bot could help you?

> We need a bot to at the very least warn the uploaders if they weren't
> warned.

Doesn't en.wp have such a bot?

> Having said that we absolutely need a delinking bot.

Marco is working on it ....

Regards.

Flo


from_name: Rob Church

subject: [Wikitech-l] php in mediawiki?

body:
On 23/11/06, Liz Kim <lizkim270 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to do _POST or _GET within wiki in php?
> trying to create a form and pass the input variable into a php function...

1. This should be on the mediawiki-l mailing list
2. Investigate the WebRequest class and its role in MediaWiki

Rob Church


subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17800] trunk/phase3

body:
On 22/11/06, Simetrical <Simetrical+wikitech at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/22/06, Brion Vibber <brion at pobox.com> wrote:
> > Tim Starling wrote:
> > > I usually send my comments directly to the developer. It saves
> > > embarrassment, although of course it reduces the benefit to other developers.
> >
> > Indeed, my purpose is pedagogical. It's I hope good for both the other
> > noobs and old fogies too. Don't feel singled out, Simetrical! :)
>
> Don't worry, I think it's good that you send things to the list.  I
> learned a couple of things from Rob doing that, like "always update
> the release notes".

I send them here because I'm a rude person who likes to have the
benefit of other people reviewing his communications and keeping him
in check. ;)

And to the new committers, don't panic; if you will review the commit
logs from 27th December 2005 for a while, you will see that I cocked
up on an almost regular basis. :)

Note: Tim's embarassment reduction does not apply if you do something
really stupid like introduce a major gaping security-level bug into a
release branch in time for a point release. ;)

Rob Church


from_name: Daniel P. B. Smith

subject: [WikiEN-l] Everything old is new again

body:
> From: geni <geniice at gmail.com>
> On 11/23/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For some inexplicable reason the media tend to stay away from
>> perpetual
>> motion machines, even though they go for all the other pseudoscience.
>
> Not in this case. Couple of months back this was springing up all over
> the place. I though running cars on water went out decades ago.

Yes, but there's been all of this confusing stuff about the "hydrogen
economy." Half the public seems to think that "hydrogen" is a source
of energy rather than a way of storing and transporting energy. And
the silly science reporters on TV always make a point of mentioning
how much hydrogen there is "in" water, while neglecting the essential
point that it takes enormous amounts of energy to get it out of the
water. It's sort of like pointing out how many nutrients there are in
shit... So I think the pinch of powder that turns water into
automobile fuel is about ready for a comeback. After all, Detroit in
its present weakened state can't suppress it forever.

There is nothing new under the sun.

I remember reading about 666, the Number of the Beast, in some book
or another in the fifties, and thinking that was an interesting bit
of obscure trivia... as indeed it was for a couple of decades, not re-
entering the mainstream until about the seventies.

I thought homeopathic medicine was as dead as orgone energy, but
nowadays you can go into any drugstore and buy a headache remedy
whose active ingredient is .00000000000004% White Bryony, plus .
00000000000000000000000000000008% Golden Seal Hydrastis in the Extra
Strength Sinus Formula. They should probably put "You Have Won!"
inside the cap of the containers that actually contain a molecule of
the Golden Seal Hydrastis. What I can never figure out about this
stuff is who is checking to see whether these preparations actually
contain what they are said to contain... and, for that matter, _how_
anyone _could_ check.

As for Wikipedia and stock manipulation, yes, this is a danger... and
I continue to believe that the use of Wikipedia for commercial
promotion represents one of the greatest long-term dangers to
Wikipedia. It's really no different in kind from things like the
articles on very small, very independent movies that show up a few
months before the movie is released.


from_name: Magnus Manske

body:
On 11/22/06, Cool Cat <wikipedia.kawaii.neko at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

> I really want better deletion tools as I am required to do a thousand
> deletions per day to keep up with backlog (as it is now). It is
> theoretically impossible for us to deal with the commons backlog at the rate
> of increasing backlog versus the rate of successfully admin candidates.
> Commons backlog is actualy already out of control.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As it stands it is clear that commons is a failing system. We should really
> have more tools here on commons at our disposal. It should take me two
> clicks to review and delete an image.

I'll be pretty busy with other things (commonly refered to as "real
life";-) for another week or so, but after that I'll have time to
build new toys^W tools. Maybe you (that is, anyone concerned) should
whip up a page with what you need. Preferably something I can do on
the toolserver, as it really cuts development/bug fixing times.

Magnus


body:
Angela Beesley wrote:
> On 11/23/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <alphasigmax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>What's this I hear about fr: Wikiquote being closed down?
>
>
> That was in March. There's a statement about it at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_subcommittees/Press/2006/03/28_fr.Wikiquote_brief
>
> Angela.

And soon starting again:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikiquote_French

with a brand new charter: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Charte_Wikiquote_FR

Funnily enough, it seems there is a new process to ask for new
languages, and though this re-opening is currently under process, it has
been removed from valid requests...

Anyone has an explanation about that ?

Ant


from_name: James Hare

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Here's another way to look at the situation: Honors vs. Non-Honors: the good
thing about Honors classes is that these are all people who want to learn,
or at least will tolerate it in peace.

On 11/23/06, charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com <
charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> niht-hr?fn wrote
>
> >Is an unequal ratio of men to women affecting the way we
> > run things? Is it negatively impacting the structure of the
> > encyclopedia? Is it proceeding in this way such that men find it
> > easier to join and women do not? What is suffering the most from this
> > bias, and are there ways to better receive the input of those who
> > would otherwise not be heard?
>
> Yes, good points, whatever anyone else may have said.
>
> Charles
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
> Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software
> Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


subject: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [17883] trunk/phase3/includes

body:
On 23/11/06, werdna at svn.wikimedia.org <werdna at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> (bug 8013) Add autosummary for new pages with >500 characters. I would merge this with the original short new page autosummary, but this would break current message customisations on other wikis. en.wp comes to mind.

If merging the two messages into one under a new name makes sense now,
then do it. Existing message customisations can be renamed.

Rob Church


from_name: Chris Picone

subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyright Violation Bot

body:
I've been seeing a rise in in-article copyvios. Last night I got one
in [[Content managment system]]. I know that only some paragrahs have
these copyvios, and not entire articles, so complete rewirtes aren't
necessary. Thus, I'm attempting to write a script that
(a) opens tabs with "Special:Random" on them
(b) select the first setence from each paragraph (line break)
(c) Google the sentence
(d) If there are any exact matches not from en.wikipedia.org, put up a
little message for me to check and remove the copyvio.
(e) repeat.

Problem is, all I know is Applescript. If any of you Perl or
pywikipedia or AWB-types have another way of writing this, can someone
write it so the general community can use it to remove copyvios? (or
is this possible with AWB?)

Chris (Ccool2ax)


body:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tim Starling wrote:
>> On 22/11/06, brion at svn.wikimedia.org <brion at svn.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>> + * END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY!
[snip]
> End users other than Wikimedia, you mean?

Yes, the message is directed at the third-party users who run straight
to the PHP files to make customizations on their one-off site and then
ask "why doesn't my site change when I change this file???" without
checking the FAQ.

> We still have no way to set
> site-wide default messages apart from editing the messages file. The
> messages files still have some Wikimedia-specific text, such as the donation
> link and the wording of the copyright notices. No doubt there would be more
> such Wikimedia references if we had a way to include them without having
> them show up on 10,000 other sites.

I suspect we could have an extension-like interface for overriding the
generic default messages with some site-specific defaults. That
_probably_ would even work with the present extension interface.

If we're clever, we could also make something editable, probably, with
appropriate shared caching.

(Attention: clever people! Try your hand and become famous. :)

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
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from_name: Keith Old

subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
On 11/23/06, Stan Shebs <stanshebs at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Puppy wrote:
> > Article quality and content reflect the bias of their authors; whether
> > internal  or external (access to sources, exposure to topics) that is
> > the issue. Your example is of geographical/political bias. There is also
> > religious bias (see my user page), and many other biases on Wikipedia.
> > This thread is about gender bias, note the subject: wrt gender: as in,
> > with regard to gender, ie; gender bias. It has expanded to note that
> > there may be gender bias or at least gender imbalance within the editor
> > pool on Wikipedia, and explored various possible reasons. Your email
> > does not seem to be addressing any of that. I am not sure what you are
> > saying with your email: are you saying that geopolitical bias is more
> > rampant and deserves more attention than gender bias? Are you saying
> > gender bias is hard to identify? Please clarify.
> >
> I'm saying that I don't know of any significant systemic bias relating
> to gender. Systemic bias can happen even when everybody has good
> intentions and is on their best behavior, so it's orthogonal to editor
> gender, editor behavior, etc. The original post mentioned scanty
> coverage of blowdryers, perhaps not a great example for reasons already
> discussed; are there better examples where topics of particular interest
> to women are being overlooked?
>
> (I'm assuming you're familiar with [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering
> systemic bias]], which explains things better than I can. I note that
> it's primarily geographical - should it have a gender subproject?)
>
> Stan
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

G'day Stan,

Going back to the original post, Keitei states* "our ballet
articles make me weep inside*." I recall that in a Guardian exercise where
experts reviewed articles in various areas, our fashion-related article was
given a very low rating.

These may be areas where we have significant work ahead of us to get our
articles up to scratch.

Regards

*Keith Old*
**
Keith Old
**
User Capitalistroadster


subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyright Violation Bot

body:
Yeah... first I have a dynamic IP so Google's not an issue (I use the
https: server to connect to Wikipedia). Also, er... I've encountered
one small developmental rpoblem: There aren't any browsers I know of
that are very compatible with Applescript (except maybe Safari). I'll
keep trying.

On 11/23/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/06, Chris Picone <ccool2ax at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've been seeing a rise in in-article copyvios. Last night I got one
> > in [[Content managment system]]. I know that only some paragrahs have
> > these copyvios, and not entire articles, so complete rewirtes aren't
> > necessary. Thus, I'm attempting to write a script that
> > (a) opens tabs with "Special:Random" on them
> > (b) select the first setence from each paragraph (line break)
> > (c) Google the sentence
> > (d) If there are any exact matches not from en.wikipedia.org, put up a
> > little message for me to check and remove the copyvio.
> > (e) repeat.
> >
> > Problem is, all I know is Applescript. If any of you Perl or
> > pywikipedia or AWB-types have another way of writing this, can someone
> > write it so the general community can use it to remove copyvios? (or
> > is this possible with AWB?)
> >
> > Chris (Ccool2ax)
>
> Your really killer is that google limits the number of searches per
> IP. The other issues is the first senace tends to be the one most
> likely to be altured. Not saying it's imposible just rather hard to
> do.
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Simetrical

body:
On 11/23/06, Jared Williams <jared.williams1 at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
> > [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Brion Vibber
> > Sent: 22 November 2006 22:51
> > To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN:
> > [17833]trunk/phase3/includes/Linker.php
> >
> > rotem at svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
> > > Reverting the addition of class names near
> > > the parameters: it doesn't seem to have a purpose, and breaks PHP
> > > 5.0.4 on my computer (PHP raises error when the parameters
> > are set to
> > > null).
> >
> > For reference, as of PHP 5 you can specify type requirements
> > on function
> > parameters, to enforce that objects of the correct type are passed.
> > Unfortunately this is pretty limited; you can't allow 'type-X-or-null'
> > or other such conditions, nor I think can you specify
> > non-object types.
>
> Setting the default for typed parameter to be null, allows type-X-or-null
>
>         class Foo { }
>         class Bar { }
>
>         function f(Foo $foo = null)
>         {
>                 var_dump($foo);
>         }
>
>
>         f(new Foo());
>         f();
>         f(null);
>
>         f(new Bar());   // Catchable fatal error
>
> Though can't remember which version this was added, and if your refering to
> something older.

Someone mentioned that as a comment in the PHP docs, but I suspect it
may have been added after 5.0 proper, since Rotem reported problems
with 5.0.4.  We haven't introduced any dependencies for after 5.0;
otherwise I would have started type-hinting arrays too, which was
added in 5.1.  So for now I'll be cautious when adding these.


subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyright Violation Bot

body:
Well, I'll use the list of mirrors in my script too and since I
manually check each edit, I can pretty easily tell that it's an
other-way-around copyvio (e.g. if wikilinks/section headers are
preserved)

Chris

On 11/23/06, geni <geniice at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/06, James Hare <messedrocker at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When featuring the script, don't limit it to just excluding
> > en.wikipedia.org-- in fact, filter out any mention of "wikipedia".
>
> There are a lot of mirrors out there that do not credit us. DB had a
> lot of problems with his bot.
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: Andrew Gray

subject: [WikiEN-l] Google Earth screenshots

body:
On 22/11/06, Joe Anderson <computerjoe.mailinglist at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Andrew's right, NASA images should be PD.

Technically, a lot of the WorldWind images are USGS or NOAA data, but
same difference - SFAIK they're still free.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray at dunelm.org.uk


from_name: Jared Williams

body:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces at wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Brion Vibber
> Sent: 22 November 2006 22:51
> To: wikitech-l at wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN:
> [17833]trunk/phase3/includes/Linker.php
>
> rotem at svn.wikimedia.org wrote:
> > Reverting the addition of class names near
> > the parameters: it doesn't seem to have a purpose, and breaks PHP
> > 5.0.4 on my computer (PHP raises error when the parameters
> are set to
> > null).
>
> For reference, as of PHP 5 you can specify type requirements
> on function
> parameters, to enforce that objects of the correct type are passed.
> Unfortunately this is pretty limited; you can't allow 'type-X-or-null'
> or other such conditions, nor I think can you specify
> non-object types.

Setting the default for typed parameter to be null, allows type-X-or-null

	class Foo { }
	class Bar { }

	function f(Foo $foo = null)
	{
		var_dump($foo);
	}

	f(new Foo());
	f();
	f(null);

	f(new Bar());	// Catchable fatal error

Though can't remember which version this was added, and if your refering to
something older.

Jared


from_name: Alphax (Wikipedia email)

subject: [Commons-l] Category:User scripts

body:
Cool Cat wrote:
> We have Interiots edit counter. Its futile to code any kind of java edit
> counter. We need java script solution to various problems on commons
> such as
> license tags. See [[User:Cool Cat/Sandbox]] for a sample. A few popus will
> be nice to help people doing the cleanup work. I would really like to be
> able to delete images by clicking a link at the [[COM:DEL]] sub page citing
> that [[COM:DEL]] sub page for the reason. Or another tool that will add
> {{delh}} ---- {{delf}} properly for me.
>

Ask and ye shall receive:

function closedel(result)
{
    var txt = document.editform.wpTextbox1;
    txt.value = "{{subst:delh}}\n" + txt.value
    + "\n----\n" + result + " – ~~~~\n{{subst:delf}}\n";
    txt = document.editform.wpSummary;
    txt.value = "close discussion";
}

I'm somewhat thinking of throwing it into extra-tabs.js, except that it
becomes somehat cross-purposed (image tools vs. other stuff)...

As for a "nuke image from COM:DEL page", I'd like to finish quick-delete
first.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Copyright Violation Bot

body:
When featuring the script, don't limit it to just excluding
en.wikipedia.org-- in fact, filter out any mention of "wikipedia". And
yes, it's good that
you're setting it so that it'll alert you instead of immediately removing
the text, since Google can provide false positives.

On 11/23/06, Chris Picone <ccool2ax at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been seeing a rise in in-article copyvios. Last night I got one
> in [[Content managment system]]. I know that only some paragrahs have
> these copyvios, and not entire articles, so complete rewirtes aren't
> necessary. Thus, I'm attempting to write a script that
> (a) opens tabs with "Special:Random" on them
> (b) select the first setence from each paragraph (line break)
> (c) Google the sentence
> (d) If there are any exact matches not from en.wikipedia.org, put up a
> little message for me to check and remove the copyvio.
> (e) repeat.
>
> Problem is, all I know is Applescript. If any of you Perl or
> pywikipedia or AWB-types have another way of writing this, can someone
> write it so the general community can use it to remove copyvios? (or
> is this possible with AWB?)
>
> Chris (Ccool2ax)
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>


from_name: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com

subject: [WikiEN-l] Danny's contest

body:
"Larry Pieniazek" wrote

> Well I'm not sure how to respond to that exactly, other than to say that we
> judged the entries that turned up based on the criteria we developed (which
> were in turn based on the goals, to demonstrate referencability...) Those
> entries were the best at it.
>
> Not that it's relevant (so why did I mention it? Dunno) but of the three
> judges that actively judged entries, I was the only boy.

If one actually worries about systemic bias as pervasive, one also presumably reinforces the dictum that Voting is Evil. Because it generally adds to the middle-of-the-road of whatever is there, rather than addresses what is missing.

If you take copious referencing as a criterion, you will favour areas where reference books already proliferate. Now, I have nothing against military history, I hasten to add. I have worked myself on clean-up of Japanese military history (the bizarre Peruvian contributions). Good references there would be excellent. The reason I bothered is that coverage of certain things (e.g. the Second Sino-Japanese War) is just inherently going to be worse than that of each battle for a Pacific island, given the slant of what reference material exists in English.

Charles

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
niht-hr?fn wrote

>Is an unequal ratio of men to women affecting the way we
> run things? Is it negatively impacting the structure of the
> encyclopedia? Is it proceeding in this way such that men find it
> easier to join and women do not? What is suffering the most from this
> bias, and are there ways to better receive the input of those who
> would otherwise not be heard?

Yes, good points, whatever anyone else may have said.

Charles

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from_name: Erik Moeller

subject: [Foundation-l] Corporate contacts

body:
The Board and Executive Director are compiling a database of
high-level corporate contacts for various uses, such as fundraising.
If you have high-level contacts with major corporations which you are
willing to share, or make introductions to, please send an e-mail to
me or Anthere ASAP. Thank you very much.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

Member, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, all views or opinions expressed
in this message are solely my own and do not represent an official
position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.


subject: [Foundation-l] Corporate contacts


subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Puppy wrote:
<snip>
> This is not to say that improving and expanding such articles is not
> desirable - after all, we wish to be the premier source of general
> information on everything - but it is not due to gender bias, and to
> imply that it is to me is reinforcing the
> "woman-as-empty-headed-shallow-person".

Actually, your argument here is serving /that/ purpose quite well.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Sarah wrote:
> On 11/22/06, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com> wrote:
>> -kc, who has run on enough about a social issue with no direct bearing
>> on Wikipedia
>>
> Puppy for ArbCom. :-)
>

Names are more important than you think. "Throbbing Monster Cock" could
never be elected.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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subject: [WikiEN-l] Systemic bias wrt gender

body:
Puppy wrote:
<snip>
> *GENDER BIAS IN STUDENT/TEACHER INTERACTIONS*
>

Obviously you're not aware of the problems surrounding males in
education then, and how they're falling seriously behind their female peers.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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